Crowfall will be buy-to-play with optional sub

Although we don’t have the full idea of what Crowfall is, today we know more about how we’ll be paying for it in the future.

ArtCraft released a pricing FAQ for the upcoming fantasy title in which it revealed that the game will be buy-to-play with an estimated retail price of $50. There will also be an optional VIP membership package (around $15 a month) that includes behind the scenes access, passive training for three character slots, priority server access, pricing discounts, and other “non-balance affecting benefits.” VIP membership tickets will also be bought and sold between players. These prices are specified for the North American market for right now.

The team also released a sneak peek at another one of the game’s classes, the Confessor, and a heaping of backstory in the form of fantasy scripture.

[Source: Pricing FAQ, the Confessor, War of the Gods (part 1)]
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128 Comments on "Crowfall will be buy-to-play with optional sub"

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Jasonpogilim1
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Jasonpogilim1

buy to play and pay to win, what a let down

JohnMoth
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JohnMoth

Craywulf Exactly what I was thinking

Ghostmourn
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Ghostmourn

great news, always happy to see more games going btp! Existing games and especially new ones :)

imperialpanda
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imperialpanda

BhimaJenkins imperialpanda SyrionDeathwalker  In this context of MMOs, market saturation is an excuse. Everyone, in every industry, should expect to compete with other companies over their customers. The brief moment in time when an industry is new and growing is relatively short, and shouldn’t be depended upon.
Its use in MMO games is also not completely correct. Market saturation is when all potential customers are exposed to your product, and are able to buy if they want to. Market saturation has nothing to do with failing to compete with competitors. It’s a different issue.
If someone made a more competitive subscription game than WoW, they would get the subscribers. It’s as simple as that.

doctoroverlord
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doctoroverlord

EatCandy I like the CGI movies!   The ones done by Blur Studios for SWTOR were far better than the last three Star Wars movies combined :)

BhimaJenkins
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BhimaJenkins

imperialpanda SyrionDeathwalker

There is literally only 3 sub-only games still in existence in the West: WoW, EvE and FF14. There are a legion of MMO corpses cast into the dustbin of history and an even larger amount of MMOs that are doing well with a different payment model. The issue isn’t game quality per se, its that the market is saturated and we all only have so much money/time to spend on what’s available. WoW came out at an opportune time when there was literally nothing like it, same goes for EvE and FF14 does well because they spent the time and resources to completely re-design the entire game AND they have their legacy IP to catapult interest. These factors are easily just as important as “make a solid, big enough game to justify subs.”

BhimaJenkins
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BhimaJenkins

Bannex19

Well… I played LOTRO F2P, not a bad implementation as there are MUCH worse examples. Still, I got annoyed when I reached level 20ish, tried to step into a lvl 20-something zone only to be slapped with a cash shop pop up telling me to pony up like $20 to play the quests in the zone, and many of the other zones. Ala carte would cost much more than a retail priced box for a game. Contrast that with GW2 that gives me the entire game for the box price minus some cosmetics I could care less about.

goldstariv
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goldstariv

pid Yeah.. It’s almost like buying the retail box is nothing more than a cosmetic item now.. -_-

shanoyu
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shanoyu

SoMuchMass It depends a lot on when it releases in relation to camelot and the Gw2 expo, and how well they fare.  There’s uh, well.  Not really a great game in town for the floating pool of RvR players right now.  You have Gw2 and ESO which are pretty neglected.  A lot of people tried Archeage but it didn’t meet minimum expectations for most players.  Other pvp centric games like Eve-online have terrible combat frequency (and an even higher cost of initial entry to play now, by buying a character)

I mean, sure, it might be a no name IP, but if it’s your only chance to jump on the trampoline, people might get over that cost of entry.  Additionally, almost all their main RvR competitors are buy to play anyway.

pid
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pid

“Pricing discounts”.

So I buy the game for 50 USD and THEN I sub for 15 USD/mo and THEN I get discounts on “pricing”… for what? The in-game cash shop?
LOL, that’s not even double-dipping anymore, that’s triple-dipping!

Mythx
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Mythx

Interesting lore.. ))

Tepid
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Tepid

EatCandy I do wonder why, with so many entertainment options having much cheaper subscriptions, MMOs have obstinately kept subscriptions at $15.  At least FFXIV has a $13 option, which is not much better, but jeez.

Lethality
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Lethality

Craywulf Well because it’s not something you can’t already do in-game.

Craywulf
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Craywulf

Can someone tell me how “passive training for three character slots” is not paying advantage?

seventhbeacon
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seventhbeacon

Exiani There’s no pay2win.  Thankfully, though, there will be an /ignore feature.

jefreahard
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jefreahard

SallyBowls1 Fwiw I’m not defending B2P. It’s a glorified version of F2P and leads directly to all of the same monetization-over-gameplay issues that have made MMOs less enjoyable in recent years.
Its one saving grace, imo, is that it requires everyone to spend something to get in the door. I mean, how crazy and forward-thinking is that?! Paying for what you consume, lol. 
But you’re right, the B2P/F2P distinction is pretty meaningless in the long term because the industry prefers item malls to games and so do most of the consumers.

tobascodagama
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tobascodagama

Eamil tobascodagama valdi313 The FAQ says clearly that you craft gear in your kingdom which you then bring over to the campaign areas. Kingdoms will also function as trading hubs, with the potential to earn money off taxes if your kingdom becomes a large and popular trade hub. So I wouldn’t really discount the possibility that buying a bigger kingdom through the cash shop will give you meaningful advantages in-game.

Lethality
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Lethality

Exiani Every account includes 3. The VIP only allows you to have 3 offline training slots instead of 1. 

There’s nothing you can buy in the cash shop that you can use in the game to gain an advantage.

Exiani
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Exiani

THIS IS AMAZING!! not only do you have to BUY the game, you also need to
continuously pay if you want to include basic game necessities like,
extra character slots. And what’s more, you can buy your way to to the
top AGAIN by subscribing. SOO this isn’t even buy to play, this game is
BUY TO PLAY with an IN GAME CASH SHOP, and the option TO PAY TO WIN
with an ADDED SUBSCRIPTION, love it <3

Vibed
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Vibed

EatCandy Don’t forget the cash shop on top of all that :)

boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)
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boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)

SallyBowls1 boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke) I should hope so.  Vegan option maybe?

SallyBowls1
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SallyBowls1

boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke) Also needs to be Sustainable with low carbon footprint.

SallyBowls1
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SallyBowls1

Gylnne jefreahard EatCandy So B2P games are completely indifferent to what and how much you buy in the cash shop???? Sub games have cash shops, B2P games have cash shops, F2P games have cash shops. Does anyone believe that companies are going to be not want to increase those cash shop sales? That they won’t spend effort to increase those cash shop sales? Weren’t the estimates that WoW made a couple of hundred million from cash shop?

SallyBowls1
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SallyBowls1

Gylnne EVE, which is older than WoW, has passive skill training where skills increase in real time whether you log in or not.  You can even skill up pilots and sell them to others.

seventhbeacon
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seventhbeacon

ANCN With there being looting options and item decay, it mostly cuts down on the time someone needs to jump back in the battle.  Gear will be crafting-based and not carry the same importance as it does in WoW-type games.

boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)
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boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)

A Dad Supreme TheChiHawk RingofVoid 
A downside to F2P is that people assume that the game is..well..free.  The fact is that the cost of the game is paid for by others.  It’s like free day at the museum.  It only exists because patrons have memberships and people go their on normal days and pay the expected cost.  Sure it’s free on Fridays, but it’s still worth the cost of admission regardless of when you go.
VIP rewards sweeten the deal, but probably only for people who would have paid anyways.  If anything the number is less, otherwise they would have just opted for a subscription.  
So yeah. 

Your access+VIP rewards+your part of the bill for everyone who isn’t paying = $15/month.

boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)
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boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)

TheChiHawk Planetside 2 doest priority access well.  The game itself is not so popular that there is ever a log in queue, but continents have a population cap and players with an All Access Pass have shorter wait times switching between them.  When I was a subscriber I would wait 15-20 seconds to jump continents, now it takes a few minutes plus.  
Maybe they have something like that in mind.  We know that there is one persistent world that exists for players between game states and that the rest of the world is in flux. Maybe interzone or interworld travel has limits or wait times.

Mathew_Reuther
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Mathew_Reuther

Currency in Guild Wars was extremely limited (coins were capped at a value exceeded by the market value of goods) and end game resources took the place of money in transactions as a result. But these resources were “good as gold” as it were (after all, that’s what they substituted for) so the ability to acquire them was equivalent to hauling in the equivalent in coin.
It’s wholly irrelevant what you barter for. What matters is that if you’re the dude who happens to have exchanged sub time for items of value, you have that much value worth of items to then “buy” other items with.
Real money will influence the game no matter what. But let’s not mistake “no coinage” for meaning that there’s nothing of value to be gained by whipping out the plastic. And some people will drop thousands or tens of thousands on these games.

ANCN
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ANCN

Great model choice, but the tradable subscription time ala APEX, CREDD etc. may be indirectly selling in-game currency which is dangerous in a crating game.
Wallet warriors could have infinite access to gear in potential loot game. Devs get rich at the expense of balance.

Bannex19
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Bannex19

Lol b2p is just f2p only you have to buy it to play it. It’s amazing how many people below think there is a difference…
so much fuss over business models, just hope the game is fun and worth whatever they think will keep them interested enough to continue to support it.

Lethality
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Lethality

Mathew_Reuther

Well, there’s this re: the VIP tokens:  http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2073-021215-the-confessor-god-history-pricing-faq/page-14#entry53025

“What players use for trade for these tokens I’m not sure yet. We are giving the players the tools of an economy but what becomes the defacto unit for trade will be decided by what people start selling their goods for. Could be wood, ore, ore smelted into coins, if so which ore is the one used? Fun times for sure!”

So, there’s no plan to sell (or even *have*) a pre-defined currency… it will be decided by the economy.  Pretty interesting, to be sure.

bodoka
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bodoka

If they try to revolutionize the genre. Why not come up with played time based sub? It works fine in China for Wow and many MMOs.

Celestia
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Celestia

Gylnne I took that to be much like the ‘rested xp’ found in other games. I have no doubt that passive training will be minimal at best.

Celestia
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Celestia

imperialpanda I think they’ll fill out the premium perks as they move forward with the game.  I applaud the fact that they’re releasing the payment model so far ahead of launch.  How many other titles have done that in the past five years?

boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)
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boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)

Caec boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke) Do you currently play EVE?  The game is vastly different from the videos you see online.   PVP is quite common.  Ask anyone outside of highsec.  Hell, join RvB if you want some highsec fun.   If anything there is a vocal group of players who are upset at CCP for focusing too heavily on PvP, especially at the expense of industry(which is itself an aspect of PvP)…
 YMMV of course, but consider joining a PVP corp if you think that the game is too PVE centric.

boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)
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boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke)

Gylnne boredinBC (aka Daniel James Clarke) I think they used the term “Feature filled”

Mathew_Reuther
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Mathew_Reuther

Except that by definition the ability to take real world cash and gain in game (which is what buying subs and selling them in game does) means you can pay to win. Unless nothing in game means anything anyway.
Of course the problem with NOT letting people do that is you get it anyway with illicit RMT.
There’s no “good” way to do this. It is a (sadly) world full of imperfections, after all. :)

imperialpanda
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imperialpanda

SyrionDeathwalker imperialpanda  Money aside, this is still a very niche game, supposedly. Whether it does well or not will probably not be based on the payment model.

SyrionDeathwalker
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SyrionDeathwalker

imperialpanda SyrionDeathwalker Ive been turned off by F2P lately, I dont mind throwing money at a game I enjoy. But Archeage was kind of the last straw for me for F2P. It was just TOO much. Had so much promise. Im cool with sub games too, but unless you bring something different to the table, usually a sub ends up being a death sentence. Maybe they can find the balance to make a optional sub work. fingers crossed

Blackomen
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Blackomen

brelic nowrar 
Paid expansions. Also causes them to keep adding content if they want money. No cash shop required.

Lethality
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Lethality

sunkzero There is game shots, screen shots, interface shots, crafting information, economic information, and more.

imperialpanda
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imperialpanda

SyrionDeathwalker  Really, the way I see B2P is, the game is not big enough to justify required subs, but it’s also not competitive enough (not talking about pvp) to survive as a F2P. Of course GW2 is an exception. But generally I’m least excited about B2P.

Lethality
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Lethality

I think we all just need to take a look at what the reality of game economics is these days. 

They have to make money, so I’m fine with any form of payment model that nets them what they need per-user-per-month in whatever format(s) that happens… sub, cash shop, PLEX, etc.

The only line they need to draw is to not sell anything for real money that would give a player a moment-by-monent advantage in any way in the game itself. And they’ve already said they won’t be selling those kinds of items.

SyrionDeathwalker
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SyrionDeathwalker

I all for another B2P MMO, hopefully this is a new trend that starts.

Tepid
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Tepid

SoMuchMass Totes.  You shouldn’t need to pay for anything anymore – I think the same thing of restaurants.  They need to bring me the steak, and I’ll pay them for the microtransaction mashed potatoes *if I feel like it*.

Mathew_Reuther
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Mathew_Reuther

Looks a lot like fractal-generation to me in what they’ve released.

Mathew_Reuther
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Mathew_Reuther

“Behind the Scenes” access implies to me something closer to what City State or Cloud Imperium or Goblinworks are doing. Now, granted, those are all development games, and the VIP membership is slated as being something for Crowfall’s release. So your “3” seems to fall somewhere in line with this. Maybe.
As for the rest, I’d be surprised if VIP didn’t come with some kind of Loyalty program. (That’s pretty standard for MMOs these days.) I strongly suspect you’ll never have luxury services paid for by a sub fee in any game. There’s a reason those things cost, and one of them is to prevent people from using them. (No game company wants unlimited renames, server transfers, gender bends, cosmetic respecs, etc. Putting a price on them keeps things in check to an extent.) Exclusivity and early access to cosmetics (outside of those from any loyalty rewards) seem possible, but a stretch.
Consider this: three characters being passively trained at the same time. What if each one of those characters is able to play in a different campaign? That means that VIPs essentially get three times the campaigns they can “fully” participate in. (Clearly they cannot “fully” be logged in and playing all three characters simultaneously…but when playing one character they are not foregoing advancement on the others.)
Doesn’t that sound like a pretty hefty advantage?

ausj3w3l
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ausj3w3l

eLdritchMD at least they’re covered… PROGRESS!!!

imperialpanda
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imperialpanda

Most underwhelming premium sub 2015. When the sub is required to play the game, $15 Is standard. However, they’ll quickly find that when it’s optional there needs be real value for people to sign up. Such a weak premium sub will also hurt the plex resale, which can be significant.

Gylnne
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Gylnne

KeldarHawke Gylnne Ah thanks Keldar for the info.:)

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