Skyforge ‘won’t tolerate the word P2W’ [Updated]

Skyforge apparently doesn’t take too kindly to accusations of pay-to-win.

In response to a North American Skyforge player’s admittedly originally badly worded question about the differences between the Russian and North American cash shops, Allods Team Community Manager Maeron told players that the team “won’t tolerate the word P2W” or any other “oversimplification” of the game’s monetization. “Please note that repeated failure to comply shall result in the removal of your forum rights and beta access,” Maeron wrote before locking the thread.

It’s worth noting that while Skyforge did give out beta keys through outlets such as Massively Overpowered, it also sold beta access via founders packs. The game’s second round of beta began earlier this week.

We’ve reproduced the explanation in its entirety below.

Monetization in free to play is often a source of endless debate involving different parties, ranging from the “core freeplayers” to the “compulsive buyers”.

One of the challenges of developing a “free to play” is addressing the demands of each party. Once you’ve formalized and implemented a plan, however, you’re still not done.

You often have to communicate with your members and explain the underlying mechanisms of your design – and doing so usually dissipates most concerns and leads to better feedback from players. Over time, both the developers and players grow a better understanding of sustainable commercial practices.

However, these days it’s no longer possible since too many people are prone to pasting the term P2W onto pretty much every situation. This behavior is extremely harmful, in the sense that it damages the image of a game before it has even had a chance to reach to its community. One must trust the developers’ vision.

It also weakens the dialog between the community and the developers of the game they play.

For these reasons, we will strive to provide answers to our members in need of details regarding our monetization – but in turn, we won’t tolerate the word P2W as of today, nor tolerate oversimplification of monetization in topics.

Members participating in the forum this early in the game project ought to allow its community to grow with a sense of responsibility and communication practices that don’t undermine their relationship with the skyforge team.

We’ll still ask you to respect our rules out of respect for the community that will establish here and align with the developers’ views. Once OBT opens in our territories, everyone will have a chance to check the monetization aspects of Skyforge for themselves.

Please note that repeated failure to comply shall result in the removal of your forum rights and beta access.

We’ll have a first round of impressions on the game out later today, so stay tuned.

[Source: Official forums. Thanks, Mark!] [Update: Skyforge PR has let us know that the original statement on the forums has been retracted (it’s currently been struck-through and is still readable, however). Community Manager Maeron has appended a new note that reads, “In no way did we intend to censor anyone. We respect all opinions and are open to all feedback from our community. Closing this topic and our post above (now strikethrough) was a mistake and we apologize. At the same time we want you to note that we would like to address any question you have and would love to know your personal impressions of the game after you have played it. We appreciate your feedback, please keep it coming! Thank you.” A second note reads, “Answers will be coming as we agreed already. I’m really sorry I caused all that stir… My intent was mostly to urge players not to use harsh wording so no fences will raise and harm our exchanges… But I must have been carried away… I apologize.” Multiple threads relating to the issue have also been restored and unlocked.]
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391 Comments on "Skyforge ‘won’t tolerate the word P2W’ [Updated]"

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GoJammit
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GoJammit

Xansabar So this whole thing is about people poisoning the waters before it is even decided what the payment scheme was goign to be like. And the subject was not banned. Just the use of one word. hardly what I would call censorship. If you’re not going to try the game, fine, but this is a silly reason not to.

GoJammit
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GoJammit

Xansabar GoJammit Not necessarily true. With certain things taken off of the table, you can focus on things that matter. I’d love to do that for presidential elections. Toss out a couple of subjects that are merel;y distractions. Plus P2W is a trigger word. Humans are that dumb that they can discuss an issue with different language and it changes the conversation. 

You want in depth, sometimes It’s ok to be in the shallow watter to make sure things are straight before the deep dive.

Xansabar
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Xansabar

GoJammit  It doesn’t. and never would. Censorship CAN NEVER create more in depth conversation. Censorship destroys constructive criticism because it makes everything one sided. You’re logic is faulty my friend.

Xansabar
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Xansabar

Hi I made an account just to say this. Even though I’m a year behind. I just wanted to say that I was looking at possible games to download and I came across skyforge. Thnking it was a cool looking game I started to research it to see how free-to-play it was, and for the most part, what I read made it sound like It was a pretty fair system. I myself usually put some money down on free to play games I like enough, so long as I feel the transactions are fair. But then I came across this page, and it disgusted me. The fact that a group of developers agreed among themselves to censor their fanbase shows me and everyone that they are not confident in their system. I’m not saying that the system implemented is bad or good, but I am saying that attempting to censor the forum writers is a great way to turn fans away. Forums are there so we can debate these things and make points about the game. If your system is fair than your game will persevere in spite of the haters. Censoring the fanbase and restricting what they are and aren’t aloud to debate about in regards to the game is a recipe for mass distrust In the developers. I was maybe minutes away from downloading the game, but now I won’t so much as google it’s name ever again. So I hope the developers see this and know, that even in 2016, they are losing potential fans. I don’t know if this is still being enforced, but regardless I won’t be playing this game ever.

Bluehound
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Bluehound

Lights_andMusic your mom shoud’ve swallowed you.

Lights_andMusic
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Lights_andMusic

Can a mod delete this troll account, please?

Bluehound
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Bluehound

Direcrow You sound mad and you type mad ;) I am superior since you are a scrub who cant even spend money since you dont have money broke AMF ;) lol google Bluehound and youll see not just on skyforge but i dominate EVERY game I PLAY,trust me  you are nothing compared to me. I ain’t even mad i got all i Need and Want :) you sound angry im superior in every way.

Direcrow
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Direcrow

Bluehound Direcrow Oh and trust me, there are plenty of people superior to me, you are not one of them.

Direcrow
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Direcrow

Bluehound Direcrow I’m not mad, why would I be mad that a guy was so bad at a game that he had to pay for victory and then sell his account just to break even? Shit you should be angry, not me.

Bluehound
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Bluehound

Direcrow well yeah it was worth it roflstomping your way to end game content, nothing to do i always win PvP my win rate is so high that I got all my money back, since my stats in both PvE and PvP are so high i “Easily Sold My account to playerauctions.com  and got my money back so yeah theres no money lost ;) dont be mad  just because someone is more superior than you.

Direcrow
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Direcrow

Bluehound Direcrow “Kid”? I’m probably twice your age and according to your amazing logic it was totally worth paying for something in a game you’ve quit already. And I’m sure you were the best. You were so good you quit. And the game has only been out for what, six months?

Bluehound
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Bluehound

Direcrow LOL you are 8 months behind kid, i was the best Zerk/Archer PvPer in skyforge since theres only 1 megaserver, i already quit 2 months ago so yeah it was worth paying for it!

Direcrow
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Direcrow

Spunkify We need to reserve our judgement over something that applies now, from a company who is more than happy to begin taking money? And all of this coming from a CM who regularly bans users for calling your company out on the TRUTH. 

Why don’t YOU reserve judgement on your critics? Why don’t YOU reserve charging people money for a game that can’t be criticized yet? Please, we all know this game is P2W and the fact that you even released (or OK’ed)  the message in the article only proves it.
I was trying out the game today and decided to read up on it a bit. Uninstalling right now And the fact that it’s made by those scumbags from Allods, only served to reinforce that decision.

DinoSantos
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DinoSantos

Spunkify no i do not understand,you are fast to ban w no reason players that are willing to put money in the game.you devs are crap,your game support the same,this is not a way to treat the people who will make you your moneysort it out,you took hours to ban me and now you reply this way?fix it

DinoSantos
Guest
DinoSantos

no i do not understand,you are fast to ban w no reason players that are willing to put money in the game.you devs are crap,your game support the same,this is not a way to treat the people who will make you your moneysort it out,you took hours to ban me and now you reply this way?fix it

DinoSantos
Guest
DinoSantos

Spunkify no i do not understand,you are fast to ban w no reason players that are willing to put money in the game.you devs are crap,your game support the same,this is not a way to treat the people who will make you your moneysort it out,you took hours to ban me and now you reply this way?fix it

Deathracer44
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Deathracer44

So true

Fightmaster
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Fightmaster

Spunkify Dont you do some stuff for MMOBomb?

deathspell
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deathspell

SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE; http://quickrevengespells.com
  Revenge on ex-lovers; quickrevengespell@yahoo.com
    Revenge on ex-spouses; quickrevengespell@yahoo.com

Bluehound
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Bluehound

Fantastico Yes its like bait and switch! they are saying its not but in the end it is! better be upfront now than to lose more customers in the future.

Fantastico
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Fantastico

Bluehound I agree. A game that supports this mentality should not censor the P2W phrase though, wouldn’t you agree? I mean people should know what they are getting into.

Bluehound
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Bluehound

well get a job then and win with us if not then keep playing as a freeloader

lucylu18711
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lucylu18711

goldstariv Zaeja  Without proof? The OP of the thread gave multiple proof in the thread of several points that are pay 2 win.

Daex
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Daex

Gylnne qweazdak Talking about “excessive” in Allods, they may as well have advertised it as “by far the biggest variety of ways to pay to stomp people” . like, they could have tapped into some serious market there, not enough for you to pay up couple of thousands to 1-2 shot people, no problem, go ahead and get a 10k dollar mount to kill them with A FREAKING TANK.

Daex
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Daex

Isarii belghast It’s funny that it’s so obvious about the CM guy. For different game from same publisher (Allods Online) he literally single-handedly destroyed the english subscription server :) Banned whole bunch of people for reason of being in the same guild as few exploiters and then trolled them on public chat too.

MyNameIsIllegal
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MyNameIsIllegal

Isarii belghast Yep, literally the only thing they did not want people to know about their game is now the only thing most people know about their game because they up and decided to throw a hissy fit lol

Isarii
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Isarii

belghast It’s funny. I know nothing about Skyforge – at all, but because of this, every time I read the game’s name my first thought has been “that P2W game with the CM who is awful at their job”. Oh well.

Fantastico
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Fantastico

seratin So pay to win. Got it. Thanks for explaining it. Gaining more strength faster then other players sounds like it fits the bill.

seratin
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seratin

Here’s the deal, there are two currencies used to gain prestige (your level), sparks and credits.  There’s a strict cap on how many you can get per week.  They’re going to allow you to bypass the credit cap with real world currency.  Which in turn lets you upgrade your gear slots and increase your order system, which both increase your prestige and stats.  The only barrier in place is that you need a certain number of particles of mastery to complete each upgrade tier on your equipment.  But there’s no cap on how many of those you can farm.  Essentially you can pay to bypass half of the cap system, thus gaining for more prestige and strength then a free to play person.

fakepants
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fakepants

Polyanna Spunkify He asked for patience, as the facts of their monetization strategy have not yet been announced. Any pronouncement of P2W is currently premature due to a lack of evidence.

devin007
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devin007

You should save this rant for them. I dont know the first thing about this game nor care to be honest. I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt.

pid
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pid

Skyforge == P2W

 P2W! P2W! P2W!

…oh silly me I don’t have an account and don’t want one either after this article.

I prefer to stick to my prejudices.

belghast
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belghast

Maybe this is just me… but if you make a big deal about the term “P2W” on your forums… then more than likely your game does in fact have heavy pay to win tendencies :)

MyNameIsIllegal
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MyNameIsIllegal

devin007 Are people playing it? Yes
Is there a cash shop displaying items that can give players an advantage in game? Yes
Are they currently accepting real money payments in the cash shop? Yes

It IS reality. It IS pay to win.

If you have not settled on your payment model, you don’t get to charge real money. If you are accepting real money, YOU HAVE SETTLED ON A PAYMENT MODEL. Their current model is pay to win. They can change their payment model later if they like (and probably should), but right now, the model they are ACTUALLY USING to accept peoples REAL MONEY is pay to win.

Note that I generally only apply this to cash shops. Founders packs and the like I generally view as a pre-order with the inherent bonuses that typically provides these days.

devin007
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devin007

Doesn’t bother me one bit.He is simply saying they want to get the game off the ground and figure out if the current monitization system is viable / tweak it. Sounds like the monitization is still up and the air and they dont want that P2W monkier until the game is released and it actually is/ isn’t reality.
Im willing to wait and see personally before screaming  the sky is falling.

SwobyJ
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SwobyJ

Hahahahaha.

breetoplay
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breetoplay

ManastuUtakata breetoplay I cleaned a bunch of the trolling out of this thread. :P

RagnarTheDrunk
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RagnarTheDrunk

[Update:]

syberghost
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syberghost

Perfect Hero CoH tried this. The result was a server with endless complaints that there was nobody on it, and demands to do something about the problem. The only workable solution to do something about the problem would have been remove the sub restriction. You could probably have fit the entire peak concurrency of that server into a single Hamidon instance toward the end.

Fantastico
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Fantastico

Censorship. Inspires great confidence in this company.

KiwiRed
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KiwiRed

qweazdak Having anything to do with Allods has kept me from giving this much attention.

GoJammit
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GoJammit

As much as I bitch about the heavy handed tactics on Massively with their desire to delete posts however the weather hits them, I am kinda okay with this. Censorship is never a good thing, but if removing this word forces the conversation to be more constructive, then great.

Golden_Girl
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Golden_Girl

Alatar Hartsman? Smart? Only if you put him in a room with Carbine designers :-p

Golden_Girl
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Golden_Girl

LeafyVegetable It was never in doubt :-p

LeafyVegetable
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LeafyVegetable

Okay now based on their response, I have never even tried the game yet but just seeing them react like that I know that the game is going to be p2w.

DanielCulbertson
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DanielCulbertson

That post was a MAJOR mistake, and I’m not sure there’s any coming back from that even with the “apology”. It MIGHT be possible if the statement had been made by an overzealous dev, but…the Community Manager??? 

That is pretty much all I need to know about this game. No thanks.

NobleNerd
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NobleNerd

Alatar May want to choose someone other than Scott (Fail Train) Hartsman to quote. After all he is part of one of the most hated MMO companies out there right now.

As to your other point, your traditional Free to Pay models of old are being highly scrutinized lately and many companies are actually leaning towards the B2P models with limited cash shops for support along with expansion and content purchases.

Pashgan
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Pashgan

Interesting part: on Russian forums pay2win whine has ended during release, now they are dead silent about the “issue” (both official and unofficial). Those who had purchased founder packs play the game like there is no tomorrow, those who didn’t – patiently wait for F2P access. It look like nobody care if they’ll have to choose to farm a mount for a month or to buy it for $15 right away?

Walpurgisnacht
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Walpurgisnacht

Alatar If the grind is suspiciously difficult and long, and a dev offers paid short cuts, I consider it P2W. However, if the grind is reasonable and is similar to other games, and the dev offers paid shortcuts, I am okay with that. An example of this is Battlefield 4. The publisher offers a (pricey) class shortcuts that unlock all of a class’s gadgets and weapons for people who are lazy. However, unlocking those gadgets through normal play is not that hard and is actually fun (for me at least).

Nate Woodard
Guest
Nate Woodard

I know Bree!

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