I find this stuff absolutely hilarious. Wish more devs did this

This might be what is needed. My favorite childhood game was completely destroyed by botting, and it wasn't due to the developer/GMs not trying. The problem is that when you simply delete an account/character, the botter has a low barrier to entry to create a new one if they simply botted to get everything they had. This is especially true for older games that have a cheap or free cost of entry.

The next step is for the developer to call the botter's mother and tell them that their son/daughter has been a very naughty child. At least then we could expect the botter to receive a call talking about how disappointed the parents are and how they raised their child better than this. Growing up, shaming from public/family/close friends was one of the main ways that I really learned not to do some things. Unfortunately it takes a village sometimes.

Good... all games should do this. The guy didn't get his real name put out there, he's still an anonymous asshat, but unless he's a total sociopath he most assuredly got the message and it serves as a good deterrent to other would-be and current hackers and cheaters. Screw the milktoast whining about "bullying" and other BS excuses as to why this is "too far". It's not far enough if anything...

Public shaming should be a requirement for all pvp games when cheaters are banned. Non-legit people who gloat in chat, should be aired out for all to see their sunshine.

I don't get it. Please explain what was done. I never cheat so i don't understand it. 

As I've said in this thread already, I strongly disagree with the public shaming angle.

Singling someone out in this manner for all the world to see isn't a punishment. It's a step too far.

It only serves to incite the lynch mob mentality.

It's ok for ArenaNet to simply ban someone that has broken the rules. 

Absolutely NO argument from me there. 

It's been happening in MMOs/other games/forums for decades and it's an appropriate punishment.

Public shaming is abhorrent behaviour in my opinion - regardless of context.

Plain and simple.

It's a step removed from bullying and contributes to bad culture.

Especially when it's done by a community lead / dev or someone in a position that exerts some influence on the culture of that community.

So is it now ok for GW2 players to upload their very own public shaming videos of other players? 

It might be justified. The other player might deserve it. GW2 employees do it. It's ok!

In much the same way that some people believe 'slut shaming' by taking photos/videos of what a woman wears is completely justified and ok. 

How about your child gets stood up in front of their entire class and is 'shamed' for something they did - like speaking in class, resulting in them being bullied by other kids because the teacher made an example of them? 

How about in front of your colleagues in the work place because you were a few minutes late back from your break? You don't mind if your colleagues take joy in your shame because you broke the rules. That's totally OK as well right?

What about this http://abc7.com/society/internet-celebrities-rally-behind-dancing-man/549252/ - that's ok right, he deserves to be shamed because he's fat?

Let's shame that player in our guild because he's a newb who stood in the fire! That's ok. He deserves it!

Where's the line?

Yes, there are degrees. I freely acknowledge that. 

Not all of my examples above are in the same category as banning and shaming a player in an online game.

But again, where's the line? That little thing is OK. The next little thing is OK. And so on. Until it's death by a thousand little cuts where we accept all the little things, then the slightly bigger ones. And so on.

As far as I'm concerned, taking joy in someone else's punishment or shame is shameful behaviour in and of itself.

Just because it's the relatively anonymous Internet doesn't make this sort of behaviour OK.

Especially not when it comes from an employee at a company that has different rules of conduct for the rest of their community.

I imagine I'd be reprimanded if I publicly shamed someone on the GW2 forums - even if they 'deserved' it. But it's ok for an employee to do something counter to their own rules while many players froth at the mouth with a mob mentality?

Yeah. Let's totally fist bump ArenaNet on a job well done! 

What if @breetoplay or one of the other writers/mods decided to write a whole post on a weekly basis, highlighting any particularly troublesome member of this community to publicly shame them? That's ok too right? They're trolls. They deserve to be made an example of for all of the Massively community to see. We'd still have the same respect for Bree and the others if they did that right? I certainly wouldn't. (Sorry to single you out Bree, big love, really, you're awesome)

I have no sympathy for someone who gets banned if they knowingly break the rules.

Their punishment is the actual banning. 

It's done. Sorted.

It doesn't need an audience cheering, jeering or spitting insults.

It creates a set of double standards.

It doesn't foster a good, supportive community and it's a slippery slope - think about the broader impact / perception.

It's really not OK.

@Ekphrasis punishment is supposed to hurt. You're supposed to feel bad and not want it to happen again. If you are OK with it happening to you, it's not effective. Your entire standard here is "this is bad because it's effective."

@Ekphrasis @decompiler Wow, you like to write.  :)

I'm not saying this response wasn't extreme - it was - nor am I saying it's a positive thing - it's not.  Like you said, there's a line.  To you it was crossed, to me it was almost crossed.  And while some may see the debate over that line as pointless, I think it's important for ArenaNet, other companies, and fellow gamers to hear our opinions so it can inform the future.

There are just two points I'd like to make.

First, as I was primarily eluding to in my original reply, we're not talking about the real world.  In the real world, "cheaters" that get caught are arrested and their offense becomes a matter of public record.  It colors everything they do for the rest of their lives.  Not so here.  There is a shroud of anonymity shielding the criminal in this case, and with a new email address and character name they're free to go about their business.

If this player was so connected to this virtual world that the loss of their character/character name genuinely shamed them, they should have taken that into consideration before actively, continuously, and shamelessly ruining the fun of other players in the game that apparently meant so much to them.  (The very essence of the old saying, censored: "don't sh** where you eat.")

Second, with regard to all of us "jump[ing] into the comments section and cheer[ing] that GuildedWoman48 has been exploded into a million glittery pieces": while I agree with the banning and could give or take the virtual public execution, I don't agree with the social media shaming that typically follows such events.  Things go from "AvatarX is a cheater" to "AvatarX's owner should die in a fire" in about 5 seconds flat.  But that chain-overreaction is not the fault of ArenaNet, it's on us as a society/community/culture of netizens and gamers.

Finally, I would just like to say I respect your point of view and your passion for defending it.  /salute

@decompiler

That's a fine line, which I already challenge in the post you replied to.

It's the act by an ArenaNet employee that I disagree with - regardless of whether the target was known or not.

There's also a person behind the avatar and there's no way to know their state of mind or the impact this might have on them.

What if they actually do feel ashamed at (their avatar) being made a public example of?

I can clearly see the avatar name in the clip - which might be used in other games / online communities by that person. 

Do you honestly think that there would be no possible future repercussions for the banned player if they continue to use that avatar name in another game? Or re-join GW2 with a new account having learned their lesson? That if they were recognised they'd be completely left alone? There's a chance they could be harassed.

Alternatively, they might even feel so ashamed of being banned and having the video published that they'll never use that avatar name again. How is that a good thing?

Neither of those scenarios are acceptable.

Someone in a position of authority in a community, who has the potential to sway opinion on a large scale should be acting with far more integrity. They set the example for the rest of the community to follow. And this is a bad example to set.

Would you be as accepting if MassivelyOP posted a "Troll of the week, BANNED!" article?

They're just anonymous avatars too.

We can all jump into the comments section and cheer that GuildedWoman48 has been exploded into a million glittery pieces. They broke the rules continually. They deserved a ban. Do we deserve to jump on the bandwagon and celebrate? Would that make this community better?

No. They get banned for breaking the rules.

Exit stage left. 

End of story.

I simply don't see how this is a positive or what it serves to accomplish and there is absolutely nothing I have seen in this thread that can justify this as a good thing for the community or the person behind the avatar.

@decompiler @Ekphrasis 

While I tend to agree with your position here, as I stated something similar below...I do feel ANet needs to be careful. Even if they perceived to be crossing a line, it may start an ugly precedent where others may take that a step further.

And I'll point out, this action will unlikely deter others from cheating, regardless how over the top it was. As the issue with this subject of the article video, is that he got caught. And even then, it appears from the linked thread, that ANet took a long time addressing this before they did in the rather spectacular fashion. (Politically motivated? That's not a good way deal with this.) Put that incident aside, and there are likely scores of cheaters who haven't got caught yet. Some may never will. I think it is suffice to say, that many cheat knowing the risks. But they cheat anyways as rewards perhaps make it worth it, especially if there is chance they can get away with it.

So it boils down to what is the point in all of this? To catch cheaters or deter it? The bet should be on the catching, as it deals with the problem head on. And prevents them doing further damage when caught. Where as the deterrent is only stating the obvious to cheaters who continue to cheat. Ranking the latter up in any spectacular fashion, will only give the PR perception that something is being done about it. But may not actually be effective in dealing with cheating altogether.

@decompiler @Ekphrasis  Quote: "A *person* wasn't shamed, an avatar was."

I don't quite agree with that point of view. We have to assume that there's a good chance that real life friends or family of the cheater may very well know his/her character names, we all like to play with friends, right? And if that's the case then the distinction between character and person is pretty non-existing.

That said, I don't approve of cheating. I just think a plain old ban is punishment enough. It should be up to the cheater to explain to their friends why they're suddenly no longer playing the game. I agree wit Ekphrasis that this is as slippery slope that don't help to make the community any better.

Another thought I had, why delete the characters? Wouldn't that just make it possible for an unsuspecting new player to accidentally pick that same name, and how would they be welcomed by the community when that name has been publicly humiliated? For all I know, Anet may have blocked the character names and this point is moot, but I can't help thinking the thought..

@syberghost @Ekphrasis @ManastuUtakata While I don't want to get into a discussion about what is or isn't "effective" for different people, your reply did help me finally put my finger on what it was exactly that was bothering me about this whole conversation.

You said, "punishment is supposed to hurt", which got me thinking about shame as a punishment.

The first definition of "shame" from Merriam-Webster (with emphasis): "a feeling of guilt, regret, or sadness that you have because you know you have done something wrong".

We should all already know this definition, but when we see the word "shaming" on the internet we instantly think of an innocent being bullied.  Weight, age, race, gender, gender identity, sexual preference, religious views, haircut, fashion choices, and on and on and on.  Shaming someone for these reasons is truly foul and has no place in civilization.

But that's not what happened here.  This gamer was knowingly and willfully breaking the rules - repeatedly gaining something (loot, giggles, whatever) at the expense of, and with complete disregard for, their peers.

I still think the whole dramatic thing of publicly stripping and killing the character was unnecessary, but this player did wrong and they knew they were doing wrong - I hope they feel ashamed for that, because it's the correct human response to the situation.

@Ekphrasis A *person* wasn't shamed, an avatar was.  The cheater is still free and anonymous, they just lost a tool from their toolbox.

If ArenaNet had given out the player's real name, I'd be with you.  But publicly shaming an actual person and publicly disarming an anonymous cheater are not the same thing.

@decompiler @syberghost @Ekphrasis @ManastuUtakata

@syberghost 

Hardly. That's not what I'm saying at all.

The punishment that hurts here is the actual ban.

The banned player can't play the game any longer.

That should be the effective deterrent.

This is practically inciting a witch hunt and taking it a step too far.

Banning is in the game's terms of service and is a known possible punishment for breaking the rules.

Making an example of a player in this fashion to publicly humiliate them isn't in the ToS is it?

decompiler 

Your definition is accurate - but I think it's applied incorrectly in this context.

'...because you know you've done something wrong...'

Shame is personal. It's inwardly focused and about self realisation of the actions and resulting emotion.

This is humiliation. What they're doing here is attempting to publicly humiliate someone.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/humiliate

: to make (someone) feel very ashamed or foolish

 : to reduce to a lower position in one's own eyes or others' eyes

We could argue semantics I suppose but at the end of the day I have a strong moral objection to deliberately trying to make someone feel worse when there's already an appropriate punishment that is fit for purpose.

@decompiler @Ekphrasis

Indeed, I can be somewhat verbose I suppose.

I do however, always appreciate a thoughtful, well presented and respectful conversation and I, also, respect your point of view. So, thank you for being an engaging partner on this topic.

I acknowledge the difference between real world vs. online but at least in the real world, there are also punishments for people who take things too far in response. A criminal may be arrested, jailed, serve time and be released - but then be harassed after their release. Legally, they've served their time and accepted their punishment. (The appropriateness of those punishment is subjective but that's what the law is far.) Does that entitle people to apply their own justice over the top once the criminal has served their sentence? No. Vigilante justice is frowned upon for a reason. We'd have anarchy.

I'd say the punishments in the real world are appropriate and the punishments for online gaming/forums are appropriate. I think there's even been instances where 'gold sellers' have been arrested in Asia - given the financial implications, that punishment is appropriate.

As to your second statement, that's one of the points I'm trying to make. It's a slippery slope and what ArenaNet is doing is being an enabler for that behaviour. They have social a responsibility to create a good environment for their community and providing a platform for the bashing to occur doesn't help anyone.

I agree though, our society, culture, lack of empathy etc. is saddening at times. More so because people don't see anything wrong with ignorance, bigotry, racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. but I digress.

Thanks again for the great to and fro.

@Ekphrasis @decompiler @syberghost @ManastuUtakata and what I'm saying is, the ban is NOT effective for a subset of the player base. It really isn't. The cost of a new account is trivial for a percentage of the base, and serves as no deterrent to them.

Humiliation leads to shame. It's right there in your own chosen definition. In the absence of the effect, you employ the cause.

@syberghost @Ekphrasis @decompiler @ManastuUtakata

I don't disagree that it's isn't effective for a subset of the population.

However, a penalty in any situation will never be an effective deterrent for the entire population. For instance, Indonesia maintains a death penalty (by firing squad) for drug trafficking. Still, people will knowingly break the law.

Banning someone in an online game/forum is about punishment of the offender. 

A ban is a fit for purpose punishment by revoking their entitlement to play.

It's also a potential deterrent to others who may consider breaking the rules in the future.

If people don't feel guilty about that and continue committing the same ban-able offense, then the bans should continue.

There are broader implications to taking this path. Just look at this thread and the opinions contained in it - there's fear that it 'could happen to me', objection to the video, those that see nothing wrong, strong advocates with their pitchforks and divisive debate.

I believe the video is not only ineffective as a deterrent but harms the community - as can be seen plainly here. If someone is banned for breaking the rules, the general response is 'good' and people get back to having fun. That's not what has happened in this instance because of the measures ArenaNet has taken.

It's not ArenaNet's place to take it upon themselves to publicly humiliate anyone or try to enforce feelings of shame or remorse.

Nor is it ours.

@Ekphrasis @syberghost @decompiler @ManastuUtakata that "fear that it could happen to me" is the best possible outcome of this.

Means it's working.

@syberghost 

I should have been more articulate - I meant for the people that have nothing to fear in the first place. Or those who may accidentally and unknowingly break the rules once.

Devs/mods have been known to be heavy handed on occasion when it wasn't fully warranted. Should the community be fearful of being publicly humiliated and banned if they accidentally discover an exploit and a trigger happy dev/mod takes action?

This creates feelings of uneasiness / uncertainty in the community.

I don't think creating that type of environment was the intent. 

Even if it does deterr a couple of cheaters it certainly isn't worth it when you factor in the broader community impact as I've previously outlined. 

So, no - it isn't working.

Not even close.

@Ekphrasis @syberghost if you have evidence that they've done this to marginal cases, not to people with a clear and repeated pattern of abuse, then you have a point. Do you have such evidence?

If not, then fear that cheating will get you humiliated is a very, very good thing.

@Ekphrasis @decompiler @syberghost @ManastuUtakata Ah yes, that's the final piece (as far as I'm concerned).

Shame is the appropriate human response to knowing that one has done something wrong.

Humiliation is being made to feel shame.

Humiliation is a tool of torturers, sadists, and internet trolls.

Shame is a tool of your conscience, when that little voice is telling you that what you're doing is wrong.

So, to restate the final thought of my above reply using this refreshed terminology - I'm not for this player being humiliated (forced to feel shame), I'm for them feeling ashamed of their actions (feeling shame of their own volition).

At least no semantics argument was necessary!  ;)

@syberghost

Generally a ban is a private matter between the studio and the player - which is none of my business, doesn't affect me and something I'd generally not have visibility of.

I can only point to one specific example I'm aware of in City of Heroes when a friend was temp-banned for using an exploit. Once. Unknowingly. And wouldn't have even known it was an exploit had they not been temp-banned. They petitioned, it was investigated and reversed.

It happens.

Here's a hypothetical scenario, a player just playing GW2 is highlighted in a report for using an exploit. They get banned, have their character deleted and a video is made of the process - like in this instance. They appeal, the decision is reversed and everything's fine right? No.

They've already been branded as a cheater for everyone to see - even if it was an honest mistake. ArenaNet can't take that back, nor the feeling of embarrassment for the player.

It's unlikely, sure. I doubt ArenaNet would make a ban/delete video for every single player but what they've done is open the door to that scenario.

It's like when you say something rude/nasty in the heat of the moment and realise it was a mistake. Sure, you can apologise but once it's out - a simple 'sorry' doesn't make it better.

Players should only have to focus on enjoying the game - not worry about the possible scenario I listed here in the back of their mind. 

My point still stands - this approach isn't appropriate when you consider and acknowledge the impact to the broader community.

I'll leave it there though, as we're starting to go around in circles.

@decompiler @Ekphrasis @syberghost @ManastuUtakata Humiliation is also a tool of teachers, parents, and mentors. Humans don't feel shame for genetic reasons, it's a learned behavior.

Humiliation is the cause; shame is the effect.

@syberghost @decompiler @Ekphrasis @ManastuUtakata  "Humiliation is also a tool of... parents" -- As a parent, I'm going to take exception to that statement.

When I tell my daughter I'm disappointed in her for something, it elicits the desired response: she feels shame in a proportion that is appropriate to her transgression.  I want her to be ashamed of breaking the rules, but I'm not humiliating her.  Humiliation would be if I marched her into the town square and berated/flogged her in front of an audience.

Shame is a both logical and emotional human reaction that is predicated on our understanding of right and wrong.  Respect for the rules is the part that's learned; once that's understood, shame should be the natural response to transgression.

Humiliation, on the other hand, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with right and wrong.  Various forms of internet "shaming", as an example, are for the most part really about false shame - making someone feel bad even though they've done nothing wrong.

(...well, so much for no semantics argument.  :D)

Anyway, regardless how how we choose to define humiliate and shame, I think many on this board agree that the actions of ArenaNet will not have the desired effect.  I don't think this player feels an ounce of shame after what happened to them - look at how long they went on enjoying the game at the expense of their peers.  Like I said, the very existence of shame is predicated on one's respect for the rules.

To anyone complaining about "well, what if this 'accidentally' happens to me? False positives!"

Just follow the rules of the game. It's that simple. Don't give game devs any reason to suspect you're doing something wrong, and you won't get in trouble. There's an obvious difference between "Whoops! My teleport skill got me stuck on the wall!" and "Now my character is able to fly OVER the walls and break into my enemies' forts!" 

Now, if you happen to accidentally stumble upon something that could be abused? Don't abuse it! Report the bug to the game dev, tell them how you were able to break it (if you know,) and don't do anything that could get you in trouble.

@OhSnapItsKelz  Yup. Game devs, from what I've seen, don't just hand out bans on a whim, either. Because banning players is a big deal and can really hurt their bottom line if they don't take it seriously, they generally only approach it with kid gloves. In this case, video evidence, but they have plenty of other data that we don't have at their disposal, too. Chat logs, monetary acquisition logs, etc. The only people who should have any fear of being banned are those who are actively cheating. 

The "accidental banning" fallacy usually springs up when the banned come back with "I'm innocent! It's the big bad game company that wronged me!"... and since these and many other video games are usually about the trope of the individual going up against the established and bigger bad guys, gamers are conditioned to root for the individual.

I endorse this public shaming because it sends a very harsh message. There's no excuse not to be shamed for cheating. Its not like this guy accidentally did something against the rules. He was blatant about his cheating and he got a blatant punishment in return. You can argue morals all you want but if the internet can be full of assholery, I really don't see an issue with shaming them. Its punishment, not a lollipop. Its suppose to hurt.

@Craywulf I believe in the school of, 'extreme measures, get extreme results'. I'm all for harsh punishment in games. It's why people keep doing bad things. They just get a slap on the wrist normally.

@Craywulf Like infinity :D

@Craywulf 

While I have little tolerance for cheaters, I am not sure going all gung ho fascist about it is entirely the best solution. As that form of extremism creates its own problems and rarely solves the problems and issues it is aimed at. /shrug

Hrm. You know, I'm on the fence on this one.

I like to see games doing something about cheaters, but I've also been around for some of the more lackadaisical attempts.

Anyone remember Diablo 2/it's expansion? Remember how the devs kept trying to 'one up' the cheaters, and so the cheaters kept one up'ing the devs, and it was a back and forth tug of war...that ruined the game for...guess who? The normal players.

I was actually forced into the 'If you can't beat em, join em.' mentality in that game, due to the fact that in trying to beat people using maphacks, the devs made it nearly impossible to get through some of the levels (Remember the little stabby knife guys that exploded like a corpse bomb in Act 3? Or the Lightning elementals in Act 5 that could even cut through a paladin with full resists/absorbs? I do!)...so I finally just got tired of dying needlessly because of the dev shenanigans and went and downloaded the stupid map-hack program.

I was actually one of the few who got temp banned for one of the sweeps they did. Oddly enough, that didn't actually bother me much. (97 Hammer-din on the ladder.) It was more the fact that it messed up my account which was linked to Starcraft I...which I'd never cheated (Online..I think I used some of those weirdo built in code-phrases on single-player campaigns) in my life on.

I've played many MMO's through and seen and reported thousands and thousands of bots, only to see some new account pathing the same one...(As they steal people's accounts, use them to run their circles, and just steal another/set it going) or seeing the same one weeks later.

I've seen the multi-boxed pathing bots too. I understand how some of this works even, from my days messing around with 'progz'/'warez'.

I myself wizened up over the years, and became a staunch anti-cheater...but you know there's people out there who haven't reached that stage yet. This video is an example of said person.

Was it good 'propaganda' for the company? Yes, and no. It gives an impression that they are actively doing something/but it also makes them seem like jerks. I mean, you never know how much time the person actually did spend on an account/the friends they made/how much money they paid in either/etc.

At least this post will give you a small insight into the 'why' of someone who does these things. In the end, it's all excuses...

@MilitiaMasterV umm, if you cheat, you deserve to get banned. This guy in particular was very blatant about his cheating. He flaunted it. So yeah, no sympathy from me. And this:

" I mean, you never know how much time the person actually did spend on an account/the friends they made/how much money they paid in either/etc."

The more it hurts him the better imo. People need to realise that punishment both in video games and in real life plays a role in helping people grow up. My parents smacked me plenty when I was a bratty kid and I'm a fairly responsible adult now. I know plenty of kids who got spoiled who are now bratty, useless adults-only-in-appearance.

I'm not advocating violence against kids btw, there's a difference between physical punishment and senseless violence.

@MilitiaMasterV Two wrongs do not make a right. If the cheaters seem to be temporarily ahead of the game then stop playing until they fix it and be VERY vocal to the devs as to why the game is losing your business. Joining the ranks of the cheaters for ANY reason will only make things worse. Your attitude of "I will only cheat to accomplish my goal of progressing in the game and not to steal from others" is just that same as stealing candy just to feed yourself and thinking it's ok because you didn't steal it from a baby. Right is right and honor still means something in this world. 

I am thrilled that you have finally learned that cheating is not the correct path. That is ALWAYS good, just don't let your end lesson justify the means to get there. 

@boots2 I'd have to disagree on your point, simply because I was an abused child. (Physically, mentally, emotionally.) In a way, the sociopathy of my own father has leeched off on me. Corporal punishment IMO is more damaging than it is helpful.

I'm on the fence. 

On one hand, and I'm sorry for using this terminology because even I find it loathsome, you have the mitten-wearing carebear society where doing something negative to another person is never alright. In part that is why we have such disgusting people. We live in the age of entitlement and being able to act like a donkey evidently falls under that. We have idiotic parents never scolding children for their bad behavior and the children grow up (or get on the computer) and act like scum.

On the other hand publicly shaming someone can lead to some very bad backlash and affect the person outside of the scope of the game. That's not alright.

Personally I'm kinda alright with this because it shows they will destroy everything you (didn't really) work for if you try testing their rules. The lighthearted nature makes me feel good about it because I don't cheat and I do like to see these types of people punished. But unless the gaming industry as a whole becomes more rigid and actually binds accounts to the users in ways other than [insert your name and cc here to create an account] the cheaters and gold farmers will continue on. Why would they care when they can just purchase stolen cards and use them to make accounts?

So yeah... showing they are serious is good but honestly it won't amount to much. Sure it may scare off a few of the casual cheaters but it won't get rid of the scum.

@Loyheta according to the dev. They banned more than just this one account that this person owns. Since obviously this particular account was just a throwaway.

Shouldn't the drop be really soft? Seeing as their should be 500 rangers bots and bears dead. Oh wait, the sheriff JUST came into town. My bad.

Doesn't matter. The type of personality that cheats and hacks in theses mmo's cannot and will not play legit. He will simply buy another copy, use his Botting program to level in 3 days and start the proccess over again.

Cheater's Live Longer :)

@McSleaz Cheaters accomplish nothing.

I occasionally have mixed feelings about how Shazbawt interacts with the community, but not this time.  This was great and hilarious.

I feel like the people posting tirades against it are taking this way too seriously.  It was a one-off funny video to illustrate something that happens a lot behind the scenes every day.  Shrug.

Not really into the public shaming, deletion, and ban by Anet here. Just ban and move on - maybe do a post on your forum or on Reddit about why you did it or what you chose to do to the character but the video was smug in a way that I just can't get behind.

Asian cultures use public shaming regularly as did Americans years ago, especially in schools.

Your POV is part of why nobody cares about consequences anymore.

@_Ariel_ Well said!

@_Ariel_ Yes, and South Korea's suicide rate is more than twice the US's. Japan's is almost twice. Let's maybe rethink shame as a positive cultural motivator.

I agree with @ChristopherPierce

Just about all MMOs and forums have a code of conduct that, in part, is against singling out people or creating a lynch mob mentality.

Should the cheater be punished/banned? Absolutely.

Is ArenaNet's video funny and light hearted? Sure, I guess.

I bet people want to see this happen again. And again. Let the witch hunts begin!

Perhaps my point is extreme but I don't think that a video such as this sets the right tone for a supportive community. I also consider it unprofessional to hold up a customer as an example in this situation - if it didn't display player name details or other identifying information then that would be (slightly) more palatable.

@_Ariel_ I love when people generalize something I say about a particular thing into a more general cultural and political context that has little to do with what I was talking about. Makes me feel warm and gooey on the inside.

@Ekphrasis That's a good point you make about expecting the professionals to have the same temperament they require of their user base. I just found the smugness to be gross and immature, but it might extend beyond that.

Doesn't matter because the Internet vultures eat this shit up. 

@Zariarn @ChristopherPierce It shows they're egotistical. If they were serious, they would not be wasting time making ultimately arbitrary videos or any more of a deal out of it other than announcing that the perpetrator had been banned and moving on with working on the game.

@ChristopherPierce So you don't think blatant cheating is smug?

@AdeptusEnginus It shows their righteousness. The video was deliberate part of the process of banning the offender. He was not a one time cheater. He did it often and blatant about it. He had a tremendously negative effect on WvW. He got what he deserved. 

@Craywulf @ChristopherPierce Did I say that?

The pressures from family to succeed have more to do with those high rates, but I suppose you can use them to help your argument since there's no way to disprove that.

@Craywulf @ChristopherPierce I am not sure how I implied that since I advocated that he should be banned. You might be right about the cheater's reaction to to the video, but I think that's irrelevant to the fact that the video seems to be theater to support Anet's integrity that does nothing to address how they intend to go about dealing with this kind of exploitative behavior in their game. That's sort of what I mean by smugness, and it's an easy route for them to take with the payoff being that the Internet loves schadenfreude. 

@Ekphrasis it did not in fact display any personal details. Only the account details. Seeing as the account is banned, why does it matter?

@Craywulf @AdeptusEnginus If you honestly think there's anything "righteous" about a situation like this, you're looking at it through some serious tint. This was a PR stunt, nothing more. There is no reason to make something like this public other than to attempt and create a positive moral image of yourself in the eyes of your audience. The action may be just, but the intent is by no means "righteous.' If it was, they would not be parading it. They wouldn't feel any need to.

@breetoplay @_Ariel_ @breetoplay@_Ariel_ I've been to the US multiple times, I drive down the road in the US. See a little kid around 4 or so run into the street to do whatever like pick up a ball or a pet or other stuff without even stopping to check whether or not there are cars around. You rarely see that in Asian countries. Kids generally know to be careful around roads/cars etc because their parents spank them at an early age when they do something dangerous/stupid that the mind of a child can't fully comprehend yet. 

Shame and punishment in general is a good way to teach people the difference between right and wrong. Shaming people for flimsy reasons are bad. Shaming them for a good reason like this is good.

And as the other guys said. Suicide in a lot of asian countries is a lot more about familial pressures to succeed rather than things like public shaming.

@ChristopherPierce @Craywulf if you think that hackers can be completely stopped then you know nothing about IT. Anet can and likely has put in more and more security features. They can't talk about it because talking about it makes it easier for hackers to dissect it, find whatever hole exists and abuse it again. Thevideo perfectly addresses how they intend to deal with this behaviour. If they have enough proof they will ban them. Simple as that.

@boots2 @AdeptusEnginus @Craywulf That isn't a means to justify the end. It would have been equally effective to just make a simple statement. Instead, the manner in which they did it comes off as very smug and self-righteous, which is both entirely unnecessary, and honestly kind of pathetic, considering the truth of the matter is that if the complaints about this guy have really been as widespread as folk say, they should not have taken this long to address his behavior.

@ChristopherPierce @boots2 @Craywulf people have been complaining about that guy for a while. Saying that Anet is doing nothing. The video is their way of saying "We actually did do something. Here's the proof" Otherwise people will keep saying "What Anet said they banned him? Lies, cheaters don't get banned etc etc"

@boots2 @ChristopherPierce @Craywulf The proof would be he is not in the game anymore. The video is theater to appease the complainers. Look, I don't take the view that this is some serious breach of morality on Anet's part; I just find it distasteful, which I believe is a fair take away from the whole thing.

@boots2 @ChristopherPierce @Craywulf That makes no sense when you consider the reality that all people would need to do is...you know, play the game? If he was really as loathed by so many people as you claim, those same people would go into the game and notice he was no longer there. If they still genuinely said he wasn't banned, what rationale would they have? He just so happened to quit the game the same day that ANet "lied" about banning him?

@ChristopherPierce @boots2 @Craywulf uhh, really? you do realise that the same person (or another person) can just create a similarly named character then go hack and then people will cry again right? 

@boots2 @ChristopherPierce @Craywulf That isn't a justification, if anything, you just gave a reason why this bout of fanfare they threw over it is a BAD thing, and simultaneously just made the same point I've been making to other people in this thread:

Touting the banning of an exploiter so publicly, ignoring the aspect of if it is or is not unprofessional, is further a bad idea by virtue of you don't know if the hacker has truly been permanently dealt with. If tomarrow, or in a week, or a month, or even a few months, this guy or someone similarly utilizing his exploit suddenly appears/reappears, ANet all the sudden has made themselves look the complete fool by acting like they somehow "bested" him. All the sudden people will be screaming "WHAT THE FUCK YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY BAN HIM!", "Wow, ArenaNet can't even keep one guy banned." etc.

Everyone has a good bout of schadenfreude until all the sudden the problem is back, then all the joking and smugness immediately bites you in the ass. 

@boots2 @ChristopherPierce @Craywulf That's a good point, actually. I still think the video is pretty smug, especially with the puffed up context that the video is presented with. This kind of rhetoric could turn against them in the end, when if they just did their jobs and managed exploits and reported it to the forums, this would not be an issue.

@boots2 @ChristopherPierce @Craywulf And the ban and forum posts are all that is needed. The video is theater, and there is nothing wrong with calling it out as such. Simple as that.

@Ekphrasis Don't want a lynch mob on you / be singled out, don't cheat. Boom, problem solved.

@AdeptusEnginus @Craywulf uhh people have been complaining about that specific guy for a while. Is it partly PR stunt? Of course. But don't you get tired of people complaining that you aren't doing anything when you know for a fact that you've been working hard behind the scenes?

@ChristopherPierce No...but you certainly implied that the offender cheated with decorum of civilized gentleman. There was nothing polite or innocent of what he was doing. He was mocking and undermining the mechanics of the game. He did it continuously and often, he was reported multiple times. He was caught on video cheating. He clearly deserved punishment. Banning players is small punishment for hardcore cheaters, they simply buy another account. So I really don't think shaming is going create an emotional problem for him, he's not even going to be upset. He will laugh and simply open another account. I certainly hope they track his ISP number and financial data so they can keep him out.

@_Ariel_ 

Certain Asian cultures used to acquire *comfort women* out of their female selection of POW's...

... can we knock off with pointless cultural relevancy false equivalences, as this is getting stupid as well as tedious. Just saying. And thanks in advance.

@breetoplay @_Ariel_ and the Korean homicide rate is less than 20% of the US's, and Japan's a third of Korea's. Definitely a worthwhile trade.

@AdeptusEnginus @boots2 @Craywulf I'm cool with them being smug and self-righteous about it, and I don't think it's pathetic at all. It shows 1) listening to the community, 2) willingness to act against disruptive players, and 3) a sense of humor. 

The only people who will now stay away from the game because of this are players who are okay with cheating and who probably cheat themselves. 

The game is a luxury and entertainment, not real life, and so I have no remorse or feel any pity for those caught cheating being dealt with heavy handed, or for ANet using their actions as a form of advertising. 

@AdeptusEnginus @Zariarn @ChristopherPierce I'm sure making a 51 second video really took a lot of time away from development. 

/sarcasm off

@Zariarn @AdeptusEnginus @ChristopherPierce not to mention the folks who made the video aren't developers.

@AdeptusEnginus You are absolutely right its a PR stunt and nothing more. They are within their rights to create a PR stunt in this situation. There's no greed or lies here, its a straight up public shaming to a repeat offender. If you can't deal with public shaming....don't cheat.

@ChristopherPierce Public shaming gets attention and shows that they're serious.  Three cheers for Areananet!