World of Warcraft: No flying in Draenor, perhaps forever

World of Warcraft player pilots are officially grounded for the indefinite future.

Lead Designer Ion Hazzikostas said that while Blizzard was originally looking at turning flight on for Draenor, the studio has decided the drawbacks of flight outweigh the positives. He said that it made the world feel smaller and came at the cost of eliminating “targeted exploration.”

“At this point, we feel that outdoor gameplay in World of Warcraft is ultimately better without flying,” he said. “We’re not going to be reintroducing the ability to fly in Draenor, and that’s kind of where we’re at going forward.”

Source: Polygon via Blizzard Watch. Thanks to Bob for the tip!
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jauffins
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jauffins

Aniayaa 
LOOOL

Vladamyr
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Vladamyr

seemsthatway98 Vladamyr You seem like a dipshit.  That’s an opinion that’s probably a fact.

Aniayaa
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Aniayaa

Great!  Good luck with that Blizz.  Cya.

KenFromChicago
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KenFromChicago

CITY OF HEROES managed to include flying in all its zones. As for WoW, if you want “targeted exploration”, just make sure areas are too tough for characters too low of a level to land for a long time–much like land exploration.

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

BigMikeyOcho ^ I see this all the time with overly religious folk

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

Vladamyr You’re unnecessarily hostile. I take it you’re one of the kids mad they can’t fly over everything anymore? Bad at the jumping puzzles. Just because you don’t like facts, doesn’t mean you have to turn into a prick.

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

DrowNoble I agree with never adding flying in the first place. So does Blizzard haha. For the faster ground mounts/less chance to daze and dismount, that’s already in. Just gotta set it up at your Garrison.

DrowNoble
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DrowNoble

The smart thing would of to never introduce flying in the first place.  Yet, that cat is already out of the bag and had kittens.

The next smart thing would of been to introduce new faster ground mounts for draenor, requiring level 100, that would not only be a speed increase but a greatly reduced chance of daze/dismount.  Doubt that will happen either.

I think WoD started off with a good idea, but once again, Blizzard is mismanaging it.  Hence why 3 million people left… again.

jackofrost
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jackofrost

Fuck Blizzard. Their whole attitude towards flying this expansion is infuriating.

Maybe it comes from playing since closed beta (but not being a raider), but for me this game has died the death of a thousand knives, and this is the final cut that made me drop my sub. And I won’t be resubbing if they add it back without some guarantees.

I could go into a massive wall of text, but… maybe its better to just let things go, heh.

BigMikeyOcho
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BigMikeyOcho

seemsthatway98 Cosmic Cleric This is called the “Backfire Effect”. Evidence contradicting a person’s convictions cause those convictions to get stronger. 

The Backfire Effect

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

Radfist Cosmic Cleric Estranged seemsthatway98 Ceder A Cesna plane looks pretty in the air, and you could just drive it around on the ground if you wanted to (not counting legalities), but it wouldn’t look pretty on the freeway, and it would frustrate the hell out of the driver every time they saw the wings.

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

kalex716 Cosmic Cleric Styopa ManastuUtakata “Its a DESIGN decision. They want you to have more fun running around
their world on the ground, being aware, and present of things. Seeing
things, interacting, running into other players. This is how they want
you to fundamentally experience the thing they want to create.
They believe, that allowing you to fly over it, trivializes all that
fun and awesome to stimulate and compel users to keep playing. Why
bother creating it at all, if players are going to skip it?”
No chance it could have something to be with them maybe wanting to use less dev resources when creating xpacs, so they make the zones smaller to compensate, and if you could fly across the zone, you’d realize how small it was, vs. other zones like Storm Peaks?
And why not do what they’ve done before with other xpacs, where your main has to stay on the ground, do the ‘experience’, and your alts can fly over the same experience that you as a player are repeating  Best of both worlds.  This seemed to work fine for many xpacs. Finally, if all of what you say is true, why did they emphasis flying so much in MoP, the last xpac, giving it its own quest hub, race track, quest to get your own flying mount, and a rare drop flying mount?  That hub area seemed very challenging and stimulating to me, when I experienced it.

Radfist
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Radfist

Cosmic Cleric Radfist Estranged seemsthatway98 Ceder  You can use them. They just don’t fly. They still look pretty and run on land though.

kalex716
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kalex716

Cosmic Cleric Styopa ManastuUtakata They take one thing away, with the goal of giving you back something better. You are an end user, so you have your own biases….

Its a DESIGN decision. They want you to have more fun running around their world on the ground, being aware, and present of things. Seeing things, interacting, running into other players. This is how they want you to fundamentally experience the thing they want to create. They believe, that allowing you to fly over it, trivializes all that fun and awesome to stimulate and compel users to keep playing. Why bother creating it at all, if players are going to skip it?

This is how video games work. Developers, come up with the rules of the game. Game players, inhabit that system of rules and explore, poke, and play within those rules.

Can rules change? Yes. Can players not like it? Yes. Can the game be better in spite of what user bias would have the aver player think? Yes. Can dev’s make bad decisions thinking they were good decisions? Yes. Is everything in this thread a matter of opinion, and can’t be substantiated as fact? Yes. Am I a nit-wit? Yes.

kalex716
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kalex716

Cosmic Cleric seemsthatway98 If they want access to the companies services, yes they have to accept it.

If they no longer want to access the companies services, they can deny it.

Is it more complicated than this? Absolutely, but the above answers your question.

kalex716
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kalex716

This is one of the things that I thought was a huge design mistake going back as far as when it was originally introduced in Burning Crusade!

kalex716
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kalex716

This is one of the things that I thought was a huge design mistake going back as far as when it was originally introduced in Burning Crusade!

chriskovo
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chriskovo

seemsthatway98 ManastuUtakata  Umm why shouldn’t I be. IM the one that paid for the dragon from the store that cant fly.   I’m also the one that grinded out my red dragon and felt good that I finally got it and now I cant even use it anymore in the new content?   Hell I originally grinded out the first dragon mount in BC.   I invested enough time in it that I want to be able to use my dragons as intended as I have for 8 years.  I was vested and it was taken away from me by an artiest dev.  Quite honestly I have every right to be pissed.

Vladamyr
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Vladamyr

seemsthatway98 Cosmic Cleric Let me end the discussion.  You’re a fucking moron.

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

Cosmic Cleric No, there’s not. Good job completely breezing past the point I was trying to make.
Even if 100% proof is presented, people will still scream and fight rather than accept fact.

Blizzard could provide all the proof they want, people are still gonna bitch and moan because they disagree with it.

End of discussion.

Grimmtooth
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Grimmtooth

Obligatory 2 day late troll comment about not being able to see what the big deal is about not being able to fly in a garrison?

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

seemsthatway98 Cosmic Cleric You are the one who keeps using the word ‘conspiracy’.  I say that it may be people who post pretending to be players but who may really be from Internet reputation companies (which do exist, you can catch their commercials on TV from time to time), trying to sway opinion.  I say that based on their ignoring of relevant facts, to post something that’s contrary to what the facts would suggest, which would benefit those who would want to sway opinion away from what the facts would suggest.  Not sure if I’m right or not, but I’m amazed nobody ever thinks of this possibility.

The /golfclap was for those who try to kill the messenger, when they cannot kill the message, which is what someone would do if they are trying to sway opinion away from the facts at hand.  I tend not to respect those kind of persons, who are too weak to argue their point, so must just attack their opponent.  I would respect your opinion, even if I disagreed with it.  I definitely
wouldn’t post a picture of a guy wearing a tinfoil hat to counter one
of your arguments.
Finally, I’m an adult, been playing video games since you had to load them in to the computer via a tape recorder.  But then, you’re trying to “kill the messenger” by making me appear to be a child and/or irrational, not to be listened to, with your age and Reddit comments, tends to make my previous point.

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

seemsthatway98 Cosmic Cleric “People never want to accept something they don’t like.”
Is there some rule or law that says a paying customer has to accept something from a company that they don’t like?
If a company treats their customers poorly, they have to accept it?

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

Cosmic Cleric Nope. Just pointing out that you’re quick to label something a conspiracy just because you don’t like the information provided to you.
And, really? /golfclap? How old are you? 12? Did you come here from Reddit?

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

Cosmic Cleric No, companies aren’t always right. But I see way too much pitchfork raising and mob mentality. People never want to accept something they don’t like. Even if it’s something that can be proved. Example: It could be proven tomorrow 100% that there’s intelligent life on another planet. People would still deny it, because it goes against what THEY believe. Evidence be damned.
Some people will never accept facts if they disagree with the information being presented. Everything is a conspiracy to them.

Styopa
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Styopa

Cosmic Cleric Styopa ManastuUtakata
1) I don’t see this as obfuscating or dissembling.  They’re saying “we’re not doing flying there – it was a bad idea, we shouldn’t have done it, and we’d like to stop re-making it”
2) So by your logic, any game that makes a mistake should NEVER be allowed to fix it?  I remember in early TBC Paladins were broken, and could defeat monster world-bosses alone.  Should they have never fixed that?
3) “breaking trust” that’s nonsense.  I’ll be honest, for my first what, 5-6 years in WoW, I was one of those people who kept saying “wouldn’t it be cool to fly in vanilla?”.  I’ll admit it, I was wrong.  I realized by the end of TBC that flying was making it too easy to get around.  It took them longer to admit it to themselves.  Did they change their usual pattern? Yes.  But ‘breaking trust’ is being a bit overdramatic.
4) THIS is an absolutely valid point.  I’d totally agree that once WoD came out, any flying mount that was sold in the cash store was based on the reasonable expectations that mount would fly in WoD.  I’d say that in good faith they SHOULD offer that player a refund to delete the mount.  Again, apology though?  Nah.
5) Personally I don’t believe that they necessarily were sure what they were going to do even as recently as last quarter.

rottenrotny
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rottenrotny

DPandaren Radfist rottenrotny I think most people agree with that. It worked fine every previous xpac. Why fix what isn’t broke?

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

Styopa ManastuUtakata “Why should they apologize for a good decision?”
Just my theories, but …

Because companies should be honest and straight-forward with their customers, and not obfuscate?
For taking something away that they gave to their customers initially, and even promoted not that long ago?
For breaking the trust their customers had with them, where in previous xpacs alts were allowed to fly after main’s completed the same content?

For not being ethical, by selling flying mounts that can’t be used in the new xpac zone that the mount was being sold with?
That they should have stated their intentions when the xpac first came out, and not months and months later, after sales have (potentially) slowed down?
Any of those maybe?

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

MyNameIsIllegal FyreyEnigma Been knocked off my mount while flying by a Mage more than a few times.  You can initiate pvp combat against someone who is flying. /shrug

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

FantajiFuriku If the theory of that they want to make smaller zones to use less dev resources is true, then they need to kill flying outright, because no matter what handicaps you put on flying, once a person is airborne, they’ll see how small the zone is fairly quickly.
IMHO, flying was always fine, main character couldn’t do it, alts could do it.  No need to handicap it more.

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

seemsthatway98 rottenrotny You do have to land at some point, and usually where you land, to complete a quest or attack another player/mob, is dangerous.

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

seemsthatway98 ManastuUtakata You do understand what ‘propaganda’ is, right?  Since your reply seemed to skip over the ‘obfuscate’ word in Manastu’s comment.

In your mind, are companies ALWAYS 100% right, and customers always 100% wrong?

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

Radfist Estranged seemsthatway98 Ceder Be nice if you could use them in the new xpac questing zone you’re actually spending time in, the xpac zone that you JUST purchased to play.

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

MadMadChuck TheUltimate3 Men_inTightsToo I’d love to drive a freeway in my Cesna plane, just staying on the ground.  I’m sure that wouldn’t look weird, or wouldn’t make me wish I could fly when I look at the wings, at all.

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

Radfist rottenrotny Becaue reading a walk-through on the Net wouldn’t trivialise the jumping puzzle?
How about if the devs just put a mini-‘no fly zone’ around the puzzle?  Problem solved.

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

MikedotFoster Cosmic Cleric PizzaDoh NoneofyourBeeswax Actually agree with that to a certain extent.  However, I was speaking directly towards archaeology.  In theory, any length of grind, if enjoyable, isn’t really a grind.

I had actually started archaelogy on my main char before he could fly, and it was a very, very painful, grind.  I gave it up (life is too short not to have fun during your recreational time), and came back to it when he was max level and could fly, and it still took me many hours, but was much more enjoyable to do.

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

seemsthatway98 Cosmic Cleric Ah, the ole killing the messenger when you can’t kill the message trick.  /golfclap

Cosmic Cleric
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Cosmic Cleric

Radfist Cosmic Cleric seemsthatway98 Ceder But they also had a quest hub with flying as the primary focus.  And THERE was a rare flying mount that dropped on the Timeless Isle.  Previous xpacs had a zone that would not allow flying either.

Styopa
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Styopa

ManastuUtakata Why should they apologize for a good decision?
Just because YOU don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

MyNameIsIllegal
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MyNameIsIllegal

FyreyEnigma The issue with flying combat in Wrath was that you were never allowed to play your own character while doing so. It was always some sort of 2-3 button vehicle. If they allowed people to fight while on flying mounts (would need to remove dismount on damage) then you could add pve creatures to fight in the sky, and pvpers would also be able to hunt each other.

levarrishawk
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levarrishawk

They will most likely only enable flying in Draenor once the next expansion is released and no one cares about draenor anymore.

Radfist
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Radfist

DPandaren Radfist rottenrotny  I think a reasonable compromise would be to let people fly wherever they want, but only land in certain safe zones (outposts).  That stops flying from trivialising the overworld content (and makes it harder for harvesting bots, especially on pvp servers) but lets everyone look around on their fancy mounts.

DPandaren
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DPandaren

Radfist rottenrotny They really should just pull what they did in Wrath. No flying for the first portion of the expansion, then later introduce it when people are already at cap. Trivializing is one thing, but at the end game, people are just going to be sitting around in whatever the hot new thing is anyways, unless they’re leveling.

FantajiFuriku
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FantajiFuriku

They could enable flying and add fatigue to it, and maybe even a cooldown until you can ‘take off’ again. That way you can’t trivialize everything but you still can fly and skip *some* things, or take some nice screenshots, or admire the view or whatever…

CrisMera
Guest
CrisMera

seemsthatway98 CrisMera I disagree that they MUST regret it. All they have to do is plan around it. Hopefully, SQENIX will not loose their minds and forget to plan future content while keeping in mind the current features in the game. Blizz has, for whatever reason, decided to no longer worry about an old feature (flying) that people have come to love. I played Storm Peaks when it was current, so I KNOW you can make zones where flying is factored and they can be great zones. The real question is whether or not Blizz feels like being arsed to do it. 

I understand the business aspect of it, making WoD zones is likely far cheaper and easier to do, but by sacrificing flying they show their hand too much. I used to be that one guy that would defend Blizz from its detractors in my social circle, whatever actual shape the game was in at the time because I felt Blizz was trying to make WoW better, I no longer believe that.

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

PizzaDoh I was a fan of the teleport system (to a point) in 1.0, because traveling was a pain. But in 2.0? I hate it. The world is so small, it’s not needed. I too miss FFXI in this regard. I miss a game being a digital world instead of just a playground. Pain in the ass travel and all

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

CrisMera Yeah, but now they’ve opened that can of worms. If they never add it to the 2.0 content that exists up to today, people will bitch. If they only add it for this expansion, people will bitch. They’ll come to regret, just like every other developer.

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

rottenrotny Felt less epic to me. 0 danger if I can fly over everything.

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

ManastuUtakata It doesn’t matter how much they explain things. Whether they’re being honest or not, people are butthurt about the decision and will just stick their fingers in their ears and go “LALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!” until they get what they want. Why keep rehashing responses when it’s pretty obvious that people are going to be morons and continue to rehash the questions?

rottenrotny
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rottenrotny

Radfist rottenrotny Valid point. Some people are into that. 

To me the WoW felt epic when I could fly through Hellfire Penn or Icecrown. Now it’s seriously on rails and feels cramped. Hate it.

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