Massively OP Podcast: Episode 21

Has Blizzard lost its passion for World of Warcraft? What’s going on with RIFT these days? Are there any third gender options in MMOs? And how much patience does MOP have for studios’ tendency to do weasley “soft launches?” It’s questions like these that need answers, and these two podcasters have been drafted to deal with them. It’s a sizzling show of hard words and high tea!

It’s the Massively OP Podcast, an action-packed hour of news, tales, opinions, and gamer emails! And remember, if you’d like to send in your own letter to the show, use the “Tips” button in the top-right corner of the site to do so.

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Leylin
Guest
Leylin

Hey, I took the liberty of sharing this on /r/mmorpg to help generate more attention. Hope you guys don’t mind! 

MassivelyOP Podcast: Episode 21 from MMORPG

amkosh
Guest
amkosh

Hmm, Nikki eh?  well I happen to find that (and Nicole) as fairly nice girl’s name, but if you don’t like it, then Bree it is ;)

bargamer
Guest
bargamer

I make characters based on what is the default or optimal camera angle: If I’m playing in 1st-person, such as a shooter, I’m going to make a male character, because I wish to identify with him. If the game is best played in 3rd-person, and I’m going to be constantly staring at their front-and-center ass, I’m going to make a female character, because I happen to be a straight man. It is no more or less complicated than that.

ausj3w3l
Guest
ausj3w3l

Mochaccino I always thought the popori were too – they’re just too fluffy to care

ausj3w3l
Guest
ausj3w3l

DahkohtLewin hmmm.. It’s unusual and interesting races I tend to pick and something, be it plant, animal or a sentient sea anemone that isn’t typically gendered might be rather interesting. PLus who could argue with having access to both styles of clothing

ausj3w3l
Guest
ausj3w3l

another argument just looking at the black and white – eh eh eh

ABout the third gender thing I would say the sylvari would be close. Yes appearance wise there is the two but they are plants, I seriously doubt they have the same characteristics that we use to classify sex.

Kaiser Sosey
Guest
Kaiser Sosey

This was a great podcast! You two Youts are totally right about WOW. Arrogance reigns whenever a Dev opens their mouth now. The way they handled the flying in Draenor debacle (I love that word, fits so many things) was the ultimate insult to the very people that keep the game alive, the paying customer. Oh we will give you flying, but you’re gonna have to jump through all these hoops first. As a long time WOW player who left a little while ago, this is really sad. WOW was my first MMO, got me into gaming in general. I joined a great guild with friends and coworkers and had a great run. I had some amazing times in WOW, from game play to just talking to guildies. Now the game has become what it is today.

I can’t help but think this is a concerted effort by Blizz to take WOW down to the point where they don’t have to worry about it anymore. They have Hearthstone, ect. to replace the money stream. I think they are wanting to get out of the MMO biz. The real tell tale was the cancelation of Titan for me. They saw that the gaming market was changing to shorter quick gratification games where they could easily capitalize and went that route. Keep in mind, the company to bring us the most successful MMO to date has no other MMO in development that we know of.

Shame on Blizz if this is the case. Arrogant Devs spitting out condescending BS to the player base in an attempt to reduce WOW to a more “Managable” populace. All the players that have supported WOW and Blizz throughout the years deserve much better than this. Hell, we made a couple of the top guys Billionaires. You would think the remember where they came from. The whole Draenor thing has been insult after injury from day one.

I never thought I would type these words, but Blizz will be lucky if they ever get any of my money in the future. To much competiton, to many games that the Devs actually like the player base. 

I’ll never forget how I felt when I stepped foot on Azeroth for the first time. Thanks for the memories…

enamelizer
Guest
enamelizer

MewmewGirl Yangers Ignorant of what?

enamelizer
Guest
enamelizer

melissamcdon I never play humans in MMOs if I don’t have to, so I don’t want to be limited by your icky human sexes.

enamelizer
Guest
enamelizer

chosenxeno You are confusing gender with sex. And even then ignoring people that are born with both testes and ovaries (hermaphrodites).

enamelizer
Guest
enamelizer

Anarchy Online has the Atrox – a genetically engineered worker race that has no gender.

Serrenity
Guest
Serrenity

All of the multi-gender hate makes me sad.

Serrenity
Guest
Serrenity

jamesbanksatl If last year was any indication, they might WoW a card table and a couple of paper cups for a display at BlizzCon.

Serrenity
Guest
Serrenity

MewmewGirl Yangers no, authentic and funny.  I don’t find anything ignorant.  Plus, it wasn’t that bad.  If you want to hear profanity, try being within a 3 block radius of my house when my family is over playing MarioKart.

Mochaccino
Guest
Mochaccino

Btw, Baraka in TERA are genderless.

Mochaccino
Guest
Mochaccino

Three No-Nos, Bree. Three No-Nos :p

WoW is long in the tooth and I’m surprised they’ve been able to do what they’ve done with it.
They got inducted into the World Video Game Hall of Game and maybe they’re thinking now it’s time to go out nicely while it’s still on a high?
Imagine that one great TV show going on for two/three seasons way past its peak.

Must be exhausting developing an MMO. I hope MMOs don’t go the way of the Dodo.

Caerulei
Guest
Caerulei

Pandarens are best WoW race.  And yeah, Pandas make everything better.

MewmewGirl
Guest
MewmewGirl

Yangers I have to say that I find swearing to be more ignorant than funny…

Yangers
Guest
Yangers

Wow. Bree came roaring back from her vacay full of beans – dropping those swear bombs! You guys are too funny. Another interesting podcast guys :-D

Luxxicon
Guest
Luxxicon

I liked idea that in Star Trek Sisko, referring to his friend, a beautiful young woman as “Old Man”… it was just a neat detail.

Celestia
Guest
Celestia

So enjoyable discussion in this week’s episode.  I share your complete befuddlement with Blizzard.

Kherova
Guest
Kherova

So, I finally know why Bree is called Bree! Most important news this week!

Celestia
Guest
Celestia

Telos_ It feels like with each expansion, Blizzard puts WoW into entirely new hands who have little to no knowledge or interest in what has come before in the game.

SwobyJ
Guest
SwobyJ

What’s up with RIFT? Oh, just PLANEEFFINGTOUCHED WILDS SOON!

Estranged
Guest
Estranged

Lord Zorvan I prefer to play with female characters, especially ones that aren’t typically seen as feminine.  My main in SWTOR is a female Bounty Hunter, it is just great for RP.  However, I’m straight as can be.  I don’t make the assumption men like me are gay or bi, unless I am told differently.  Just isn’t an issue.

Estranged
Guest
Estranged

melissamcdon Well, we have discussed this a great deal in my Psych classes over the years.  It is a tragedy, in a sense, that a mentality ill person like Bruce Jenner is being seen as the shining example for the transgender issue.  The guy is sick, really sick and he is just being enabled.

I’ve seen real people with real issues, he is just an attention hound.  Sad.  Very sad.  He isn’t brave, he has always been an attention grabber.  

Also, the glamorization of the mutilation of the human body is very questionable.  

Dressing how you want (within some limits) and being able to make romance choices as you see fit with NPCs designed to be straight. gay or bi is enough.  

Most rational people just want to live and not have negative attention directed towards their cultural group.

Estranged
Guest
Estranged

Don’t pull out science when the world is going all crazy.
There are a few freak instances of having both sets of parts, but DNA doesn’t lie.

Estranged
Guest
Estranged

The Sylvanas issue should have been #1 after Cata. Hell, it should have been Cata.
Nice easy logical progression story.

Midgetsnowman
Guest
Midgetsnowman

Sorenthaz DahkohtLewin Gavin_Lafferty because certainly, same sex marriage was nothing more than a way to..I  dunno, piss off conservatives into voting even harder for assholes they were gonna vote for anyhow?

Midgetsnowman
Guest
Midgetsnowman

jamesbanksatl

I..really. really doubt that.

Dope_Danny
Guest
Dope_Danny

jamesbanksatl Normally i would agree, but last time there was more lies and bullshot than delivered content. Even the most die hard fanboys are eyeing blizzcon with suspicion.

Though they will still buy Exp.6 day one of course. It was their fault after all, they walked into a door.

jamesbanksatl
Guest
jamesbanksatl

All this drama and right after blizzcon everyone will be raving how genius Blizzard is.

Sorenthaz
Guest
Sorenthaz

There were a lot of good points with Blizzard and WoW.  I don’t even get how they’re taking so long to get content out.  They made it pretty damn clear that there was a point between MoP and WoD where they had no idea what the hell to do after MoP to keep the train going. And it’s pretty clear they still have no idea what they want to really do.  It’s likely due to developers shifting around/in/out of WoW to where their ideas keep changing.   That and they’re likely pooling more money towards Overwatch and other titles.

IMO one expansion idea they could do is to have everyone be thrown into alternate Azeroth due to Gul’dan and the Burning Legion messing with stuff prior to Warlords of Draenor officially ending (because as far as we know they’re simply done with raid content, not story content).  Then the expansion could be focused on dealing with the Burning Legion in alternate Azeroth.   New hero classes could be things like Demon Hunters after going on a lengthy plot to break Illidan out of his prison, or perhaps a Archmage/Sorceror/Necromancer-type hero class based off of Medivh, with the hero class storyline being that Alternate totally-not-Sargeras-possesed Medivh basically turned Karazhan into an academy, with the plot of turning them all into powerful spellcasters for the Burning Legion… but our version of Khadgar (or other characters from our timeline who are doing this at the behest of our Khadgar) busts in and breaks us out as Medivh clearly shows signs of Sargeras possession.  

That or everyone goes back to present Azeroth and Wrathion just happened to use the Infinite Dragonflight or some other means to pull out alternate versions of characters like pre-Skull of Gul’dan Ilidan, and then the Demon Slayer heroic class becomes available with the storyline being that while the main heroes were off fighting the Iron Horde, Wrathion pulled Illidan from a different timeline and Illidan trains up a ton of Demon Hunters before people get back from Draenor.   Could probably use that trick to justify a lot of random stuff.  And if Azshara has role to play in the expansion at all, a subset of Naga could become a playable race for Horde and Alliance could get… something or another.  Non-cursed Highborne who look noticeably different than the NElves and BElves, maybe?  Also the Medivh-esque hero class could still be possible too then.   In general lots of things could be possible if it’s just justified by “Wrathion pulled more timey wimey magic to assemble a powerful army”.  Might as well be as good a reason as any to do a lot of the things that they want to do. 

Either way, I think at this point Blizzard should just eliminate the dumb faction barrier so we don’t need two new races every other expansion.  MoP’s big lesson was that the Horde and Alliance are strongest when fighting together, and fighting against each other simply causes more harm than good, especially when The Final Big Battle with the Burning Legion is steadily approaching.  WoD’s seems to be a similar tale, with the Iron Horde and Draenei banding together to fight Gul’dan and the Burning Legion.  Basically, we keep getting shown that we need to band together to beat the Burning Legion.  So if Blizzard will stop forcing the awkward faction war that really isn’t a war at this point, they can actually get some huge progress made in the story imo.  That should definitely be a key feature of the next expansion, though I know it likely won’t be because the vocal PvP minority will bitch and moan about it and they seem to enjoy awkwardly forcing faction warfare. 
Also fucking bring back Alleria and Turalyon already.  It’s silly to think that they somehow got lost in Outland or somehow captured by the Burning Legion while out there.  And maybe bring some importance to their son, too?  ’cause that was kind of a thing in BC that was never fleshed out and barely even touched on.

Dope_Danny
Guest
Dope_Danny

After putting ten years in and coming to the complete shitshow that is being called “boredlords of paymore” i’ve been pretty vocal how i outright hate Warlords. Its the worst mmo expansion i’ve had the misfortune to play.

That said i do not completely blame fault with the design team, though i certainly think it needs new blood in the lead roles. I think Mists showed WoW is ‘over’ for the general public. Its not referenced like it used to be in the mid 2000’s. Back then it was mentioned on tv, in movies and comics and so on. Now whens the last time you heard of it anywhere but mmo sites? maybe a banner ad or a very, very rare tv spot.
Dont get me wrong i adored mists first half pre THE ORCENING, 5.2 is my favourite WoW experience of all time in fact. BUT i have been playing since Vanilla. They already got me, kids today? WoW looks like absolute shit to them. They have no interest. Hell kids today dont even like Sonic “because he seems rude and dumb and just runs fast”, what was cool to us is cringe worthy to kids today, not like we were different with our predecessors.

I think Activision saw how the wind was blowing. WoW will have a blip when a new expansion set comes out and then the game will be abandoned again, while their new darling hearthstone was growing fast -now up to triple wows all time peak players infact- and mid beta of warlords they pulled the rug from the wow team and dramatically cut its funding and told them “make it work” when they would already have to divert people to do other things like twitter integration which wouldnt have been easy on such an archaic and buggy engine as wows backend is. 

Thats why everything outside raiding is a soulless grind that renders the game void of fun. This is all they could come up with as the budget was cut to feed their new monsters like hearthstone.

WoW isnt dead and the team isnt done with it. Its just dead to Activision.

Enikuo
Guest
Enikuo

First of all, I love pandas. I don’t know where the idea that MassivelyOP readers hate pandas came from. Is that true? What’s wrong with you people? They’re cute!
Also, I am so glad that I didn’t know that Scarlett Witch was a cheap hero. I’ve paid zero attention to optimization in picking my heroes to unlock and I’m glad that I did. I would have totally sabotaged myself trying to min max it and would have just made myself miserable. Also, Justin, do not worry about writing a hero guide without knowing about all the heroes. I’m sure that your readers will give you the necessary feedback on any wrong opinions you have.
The on-going WoW drama is a bummer. I realized that I’m not even looking forward to the movie anymore. As one of those “cyclical” WoW players that came back for about 6 months and stupidly bought the collectors edition, I won’t be back again for more of the same. WoD made me feel like I was being managed and manipulated. I miss my characters and Azeroth, so I hope it gets better, but I don’t miss how the game is being run.
I feel like people play new games, like Cabal 2, so that they can have a fresh start and a chance at being the big fish in the little pond again. Also, the Skyforge combat is alright. It looks cool. And, who doesn’t want to see whether they can get it right this time with a new game?

JimGriffiths
Guest
JimGriffiths

chosenxeno Actually there is a game looking into trans-gendered characters.

Sorenthaz
Guest
Sorenthaz

Telos_  Honestly they’re doing a better job of focusing on storylines than anything they did in the past.  Cataclysm’s end tied in well with Mists of Pandaria which directly lead to the events of Warlords of Draenor. Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King were stupidly disconnected, and Cataclysm started that way but ended on a note that connected into Pandaria with Wrathion at least.
Mists of Pandaria told a really excellent story with a surprisingly deep amount of lore created from it.  It also brought relevancy outside of Pandaria, because Pandaria had been a site for one of the Old Gods and Wrathion was using all of it to try and strengthen either the Horde or Alliance into being better prepared for the inevitable Burning Legion invasion that’s coming.  And WoD’s opening events were orchestrated by Wrathion in order to further prepare the Horde and Alliance for the upcoming battle with the Burning Legion.  
It actually all ties together pretty darn well.  Timewalking is just a way of letting people experience the vast amounts of older content while keeping it relevant to the current engame, and I think that’s good of them to do.

Sorenthaz
Guest
Sorenthaz

Darthbawl chosenxeno Devil Olive  Honestly Pandaria had the best storytelling in WoW, seconded only by WoD it looks like.  
Yeah, Pandaren seemed goofy and random and filler-ish, but the lore added up very well and there were a lot of interesting things that tied it back to the Old Gods and it had a lot of nice side-stories, as well as bringing more attention to Wrathion and his plans to prepare everyone for the impending Burning Legion invasion.

Sorenthaz
Guest
Sorenthaz

DahkohtLewin Gavin_Lafferty  Oh no worries, now that homosexual marriage has been put to rest, third gender equality is going to be pushed.
Sad part is that I say that jokingly, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some social activist groups start getting super vocal about it to where it becomes another political game in order to get people to vote for one side or another.

Sorenthaz
Guest
Sorenthaz

Robert80 chosenxeno  Folks with futa fetishes would love the hermaphrodite option.

paragonlostinspace
Guest
paragonlostinspace

Good podcast as usual. :)

Lord Zorvan
Guest
Lord Zorvan

If you’re a man who thinks you’re a woman, make a female character. If you’re a woman who thinks you’re a man, make a male character. No third gender needed, because one does not exist.

chosenxeno
Guest
chosenxeno

Darthbawl chosenxeno Devil Olive I honestly didn’t mind the Pandaren(I would ever play one though lol) and I’m not ashamed to admit that Half Hill is one of my all time favorite WoW areas lol. I just didn’t find anything really compelling in Cata.

Caerulei
Guest
Caerulei

melissamcdon Like, I appreciate games that allow players to cross dress or customise their appearance so as to look feminine or masculine regardless of their character’s sex, good customization is great for everybody!  However even making a defined third gender limits what a third gender looks like.  Also, there is a huge difference between folks who are mentally/emotionally third gender and folks who have chromosomal problems (which is serious business and medically terrible, not something to be fetishized).  So I am generally opposed to a hardline “third gender” option, unless it has very clear lore and cultural context so it make sense and enriches the world.
Honestly, just make customization robust, and players will do whatever they want and they are free of limiting bounds of that that studio considers a third gender.

Winterskorn
Guest
Winterskorn

Have to agree with Bree 100% on her comments for WoW.

Darthbawl
Guest
Darthbawl

chosenxeno Devil Olive Playable panda bears IMNSHO was the jump the shark moment where I realized it was time for me to slowly back out and go buh-bye to WoW.

Telos_
Guest
Telos_

Gavin_Lafferty DahkohtLewin I want bearded female dwarves, but i’ll sacrifice the beards if it means development time goes elsewhere.

Telos_
Guest
Telos_

omedon666 chosenxeno “reek” is still a male though!

Telos_
Guest
Telos_

” Has http://massivelyop.com/tag/blizzard lost its passion for http://massivelyop.com/tag/world-of-warcraft?”
No, not passion, just focus.  They’ve lost their focus on storylines.  Who seriously thought that traveling back in time, in an alternate universe, was a good idea?  Not to mention all the Timewalking stuff now.

“What’s going on with http://massivelyop.com/tag/rift these days?”
The same as always.  The game is bland and will never change unless they update their models and animations.

“Are there any third gender options in MMOs?”
There isn’t a third gender.  Androgyny isn’t a gender, it’s an identity crisis.

DahkohtLewin
Guest
DahkohtLewin

Gavin_Lafferty DahkohtLewin Nice try. There’s a limit on resources and time in any game making process. I’d like everything to be in every game. As in every option possible, every outcome possible , etc. 

You have to draw the line at some point at whats important , and try and play the bigot , hateful , whatever line all you want , but putting in a 3rd gender option is something that just doesn’t rank up there on the list of needed important items to me.

It’s a clickbait topic they threw in on purpose. It gets heated arguments going , traffic , whatever. 

Maybe devs need to make sure that every Amazonian tribe skin color and hair color is an option in every game also ? 

Or they should have every possible hairstyle , haircolor , and facial features of every person on earth ? 

Makes as much sense to me to say they have to have every option for every person on earth as it does to say they need a “3rd gender”.

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