EverQuesting: Holly Longdale was right about casuals and raiding

How’s the weather over in EverQuest? Well there was a doozy of a storm that rolled through recently! I am going to admit that I was actually shocked at the response that Producer Holly Longdale’s comment about raid targets on EQ’s progression server stirred up. She originally told me,

“What we don’t want to do is instance raids, which is what casuals want us to do because they want to fight Nagafen. Casuals shouldn’t be allowed to fight Nagafen… that diminishes the achievement of others. That’s part of the challenge: You have to be better than the other guy; you have to be more strategic that the other guy.”

I honestly thought EQ players would celebrate that sentiment as it seemed to bespeak the heart and history of the game. Apparently I was wrong. There have been some heated discussions on the topic — and not a few raging rants. In some cases players brought valid points to the discourse; in others, there was only whining, complaining, and insults.

All in all, as a casual myself, I think Longdale is right. But that doesn’t mean everything is perfect in progression land, either.

Defining casual

Probably the biggest stumbling block in that quote is the word “casual.” Casual is one of those gaming terms that no longer has standard definition (even worse, some folks sling it around as an insult). Whoever hears the word will most likely apply meaning based on his or her own definition founded on personal life experiences unless the speaker clarifies what definition is being used. In the case of that E3 interview, I interpreted the comment with my own understanding of the term, which basically boils down to a player who spends maybe a few hours a week in the game. It’s a person who plays casually, which may also mean simply not a raider.

With that in mind, Longdale’s remark makes perfect sense to me. I am the quintessential casual specifically when it comes to EQ: I do not play it often, my character is lower-level, and my skill at playing my class is far from maximized. I jump in for fun. And I fully expect to not be able to face the raid stuff. No one in that category should. Those who just saunter into the game a couple hours a week absolutely should not have any chance at beating Nagafen. Maybe stroll up and become an insta-Naggy snack, but not raid seriously. Raiding is a type of gameplay that is by definition a more dedicated experience that needs time and preparation. It’s not my favored style of gaming, but that doesn’t invalidate the playstyle for those who do.

Here’s my long-held belief: If I put the time and effort into something, I should be able to access it. I don’t want games to slam me into a paywall, denying access to things based on my pocketbook, but the idea of blocking me from things because I haven’t put in the sweat equity (like prepping to kill Naggy) is perfectly fine. More than that, I prefer it. To me it’s a bit like saying I should be able to play in the World Cup simply because I love soccer and have played without spending the years training, conditioning, preparing, and practicing. I do not now, nor will I ever, believe that any person deserves to reach the highest echelons of whatever by the mere fact that they exist, and I do not think players have the right to defeat major raid bosses just because they log in. That’s just not what a raid is.

In it to win it

The second stumbling block in that quote was the word “fight.” Longdale said casuals shouldn’t be able to fight Nagafen, but I did not get the impression at all that she didn’t think they should have the opportunity. Instead — and this is again using my understanding — I had the sense that she was saying they shouldn’t be able to beat that massive raid dragon. Let me explain.

When you step into the ring for a fight, you usually have some expectation that you have a chance to win. If not, why bother stepping into the ring in the first place? OK, so maybe people want to just see how long they last (I have totally done that, too!), but for the most part, people who approach a raid do it with the intention of beating it, no? This is why I could easily interchange the word fight with defeat in this instance. Should those who play infrequently (casually) expect to win a fight with Naggy? No. I bet a lot of the grumbling would have vanished if she’d used the term “defeat” instead of “fight.”

Everything is not for everyone

Something that I am sure most of us can agree on is that everything in a game will not appeal to every player, nor would we want it to. The only way that would happen is if we were all identical (and thank heavens we are not!). That means that folks playing EQ will have different aspects of the game they prefer and will focus on. Some players want to be raiders; some do not. Those who want to raid should be able to put the time and effort in, and those who do not will have other stuff to do in game. As Longdale responded in the official thread,

Hey folks. Context is everything. As a team we decided that raid targets will remain contested in the base game (this means not instancing them). Organized guilds will usually kill more raid targets and get more sought-after loot than players who are not organized.

Casual players are a huge portion of our player base and the majority of the content is made with them in mind.

Check out that last line again. If the majority of content is made for the majority of players, why can’t there be something for those whose big focus is to raid? What is wrong with having a bit of content that only the highest tiers and those who have dedicated themselves to it can enjoy? If there is no story locked behind it, no blockade to accessing other content, then why the heck not have content that is only for those who dedicate themselves to that one aspect and put in the time and effort? As long as players who are trying to put in the sweat equity are not blocked from doing so by game mechanics (real-life circumstances don’t count), I see no problem with raid content’s being inaccessible. And I am not alone in those thoughts. As one commenter on that thread expressed, “As long as it’s the difficulty of the game that stops me from seeing top content then that seems perfectly reasonable.”

Progression server problems

Back to the comment I made above about not everything being for everyone. That is true. But it has been presented that perhaps the population of the EQ progression servers is weighted much more heavily towards raiders who want that experience. In that case, it becomes a vital demographic to take that into account when thinking about content. And if the game mechanics themselves are causing issues with people accessing the type of gameplay they want, then there definitely does need to be some investigation into remedies.

Numerous concerns have been raised in the thread about how multiboxing has adversely affected raiding and how the removal of PnP and nearly complete removal of GMs from the server have exacerbated problems. I agree with folks that the multiboxing raiding parties keeping others from the content is an issue that needs to be addressed. I’d hoped a new server that forces one PC per login would help; perhaps it would be much better if Daybreak granted free transfers from the current progression servers to that one for anyone who is interested.

Additionally, if the people who have put in the time and effort to prepare themselves for the encounter are not able to ever try it because of people being supreme jerks repeatedly, then yes, that’s a problem as well. If a toxic — not competitive, but truly toxic — atmosphere is hindering the game, addressing those issues is key.

Don’t take my word for it

Although there is plenty of vitriol in the official discussion, I also find great merit in the comments of a number of folks. Not all commenters are toxic ragers; some offer very well-thought-out points and counterpoints aimed at enlightening or finding a solution. One such post was made by AngorfLadroTholuxeP, who outlines the concerns that accompany non-instanced raids. Will everyone agree with this poster’s points? No, but this is the kind of discussion that can help move things in a positive direction. I sincerely hope the devs manage to wade through the sludge and find the gems that unfortunately get buried in the onslaught. And I do so hope the issues that are plaguing the progression servers get resolved so that those who are there for their EQ experience can have it.

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196 Comments on "EverQuesting: Holly Longdale was right about casuals and raiding"

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fluffymagicalunicorn
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fluffymagicalunicorn

skoryy DamnDirtyApe FooBunny3

I think the more appropriate word would have been ‘classism’.

vemerce
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vemerce

In the old days of EverQuest these problems didn’t exist. Progression servers have vastly more players, many of which are there to raid, than EQ did in it’s classic days. If killing Nagafen was something you actually had to work at, I might agree with her. But it’s not a matter of skill and preparation. It’s a matter of being able to get your entire guild logged in and to the zone before anyone else does. That’s not fun, especially for people that have jobs and need to raid around a set schedule.
Fact of the matter is (as Blizzard has shown us time and time again) you retain players by dumbing things down. People will cry, but the best thing for the health of the progression servers (and not my own opinion, mind you) is to make the raids instanced so that any guild willing to devote the time to raiding Nagafen has an opportunity to do so. If you don’t do that, the guilds that live in strange time zones or simply can’t win the race, will leave the progression servers and most likely quit the game, thus DGC loses subscription money.
The mechanics worked at the time, but that was a different game entirely.

Betternotdoit
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Betternotdoit

Sinder 
Not meant as a reply to you Sinder but the site wont let me post a comment other then as a reply
Article is an interesting Public Relations piece.  Unlike what the article says most casuals dont play a few hours a week and most casuals do a lot more then the articles writer does.  Also most responses were showing outrage but most responses were not toxic  ragers as opposed to the articles some aren’t toxic ragers.  The article says there may be more raiders on the progression servers… so their desires should be taken into account.. by that logic if the majority of players are casuals then their opinions should be taken into account.  Thing is though that a lot of the so called raiders are casual types who raid so are there more raiders or not is not a simple question. The article definitely has an agenda of defending Holly and is willing to slant the facts to do so.  At least in my opinion.. and no rage here I  no interest in raid targets on progression servers.  But fair is fair.

Betternotdoit
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Betternotdoit

ManastuUtakata 
Holly’s second comment makes it quite clear who the casuals are when she said that Daybreak designs the majority of the content for casuals.  The majority of the content gets designed for the majority of the players. Therefore casuals are the majority of the players and as per Holly they should not be allowed to fight Nagafen.  No surprise coming from a former raider.

Groans
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Groans

Author has no clue what he/she/it is talking about. Please do something else with your time.

Sinder
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Sinder

Except what you list in you “Progression server problems” is exactly what is going on. There are TONNNNSS of people who could kill these Raid NPCs, (before the patch that upped their stats) but it is not about being ABLE to kill them. Instead it is just a race to see who can get to them and kill them fastest. Its dumb and not fun. You DON’t PREPARE, what you do is have no life and “base race” other people to a spawn location. Lame game design when there is such a large section of the population that could do the content but cant because its about who can group up fastest (mega boxers) and its about fighting other people FOR a Raid, not the raid itself. Lame and not fun.

They instanced normal zones because it makes sense and the servers would be a disaster without instancing, they should just do the same for raids and make looong (3+ weeks) lockout timers while leaving the open world bosses like they are now for “competition.” 

To me its not a big deal because I’m not focused on it, but to others its crippling. the GAME WAS NOT DESIGNED TO HAVE THIS MANY PEOPLE ON A SEVER fighting for this stuff. 

Plus this “compititon” just focuses the community more and more on the toxicity of the crippled “Play Nice Policy”

Ehra
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Ehra

Midgetsnowman Ehra FooBunny3 
“doesnt really excuse it, it just tries to by pretending the fact world
bosses were camped day and night meant that was totally something
everyone wanted to see again”
What do you mean it doesn’t excuse it? It’s exactly what it says on the bin. Either you want it or you don’t, there’s nothing that needs to be changed or “excused.”

FooBunny3
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FooBunny3

I don’t know that I would agree that old school MMOs aren’t or weren’t good. They were the start and thus show the capabilities of the time. New games, like Shroud of Avatar are following old school; as a crowd funded game enough people must still like old school to support it. I will admit to poor graphics, pathing and UI is telling in the old games along with the try to match WoW quest style in an old game setting making them less of what they were.
I think the real question here is what people are expecting from a progression server? By the long time locked vote, it seems like a casual stroll down memory lane with lime minded people and being able to find people your level to group with again. Maybe all gang up on Holly Windstalker for killing you all those years ago or experience a place with a group you missed originally. However, that vote really doesn’t agree with the statement Holly has made. The majority of players want a casual look back at the old game. It isn’t truly what it was in its current form, but the old zones are still there unlike EQ2.
So what is it everyone, what do you want from the progression servers?

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

DamnDirtyApe Midgetsnowman Ehra FooBunny3 No, its that people are being reminded of how shit everquest and all oldschool MMos really were, seeing why that stuff is long gone, and well, obviously deciding that progression servers might just be a flawed idea that are going to make roughly 6 people at the top happy.

fangGWJ
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fangGWJ

Midgetsnowman fangGWJ Yeah I factored in multiboxing but multiboxing of old EQ.  Whereas now, like you said, it is brain dead simple to bot and multibox to crazy levels.
They should just have some of those guys move in to Daybreak since the devs want to encourage that play style so much.

CistaCista
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CistaCista

ManastuUtakata CistaCista Actually I am not sure what I am talking about, sorry. My comment should only be taken in the most general sense and in line with what MJ says in her piece – which to me is that not all types of activities, and not all levels of effort put into a game, should result in the same rewards. That just makes a game bland IMO.
In the case of a themepark game I suppose that can mean that some dungeons are gated , but that is really not my field of expertise.

wjowski
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wjowski

CistaCista 
Says the raider parasite who’s playstyle we have to pay for.

ManastuUtakata
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ManastuUtakata

Perhaps the PR should stop using *casuals*, as it seems too a broad stroke that does not properly defines a segment player base that is assumed, perceived, imagined or otherwise. And is coming off as a tad trollish at best.

ManastuUtakata
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ManastuUtakata

CistaCista 
The one where raiders are only entitled to the best loot or the presumed one where *casuals* want access to raids?

Dreema
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Dreema

She might have pissed off a lot of people, but I agree what with she said. I’m casual. I don’t expect to have all the content in the game given to me on a silver platter just because I log in. I like it that there is content which only people who make a greater effort ever get to experience and that if I’m willing to make that extra effort, I can enjoy that content as well. 

Part of that thinking is why I got into raiding in WoW years ago. So much content out there that I, as a casual guy who mostly ran dungeons, would never experience if I didn’t make more effort. It inspired me to make an effort. It got me to learn tactics, and read up on how to get the most out of my class, it taught me what abilities were good for me and which were bad, it made me look at my stats and realise which ones I could improve and which were bad for me. In short, it taught me to be a much better player than I was before, and when I began raiding, and I reaped the rewards for my effort, it was all the more worthwhile. Nowadays, I can see all the content I want with minimal effort and so can everyone else. Nothing about the content is special and most of the time I can’t be bothered to run it.

So quit catering to the casuals and making everything available to everyone. I’m casual and I don’t want catering to.

CistaCista
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CistaCista

It’s great there is some resistance to the entitlement syndrome that many casuals exhibit, thanks!

mysecretid
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mysecretid

Midgetsnowman Rumm tobascodagama Damonvile wjowski 
Indeed. I work hard to be a patient person, but having to listen to some self-designated “expert” lecture me on how my build sucks, and how I can fix it — when I never once said I intended to raid, or to do any serious group-play tasks — well, I sometimes dream of homicide. :-D

AdmiralJack
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AdmiralJack

dorn2  Damn Bill. Damn him for watching Golden Girls while eating Cheeto’s instead of healing the MT.

Btw, your statement is absolutely brilliant and true.

People have this misconception that MMO means that we all have to play together. No. It means, pretty much literally, many people playing the game at the same time.

Seriously, I put this out for everyone, why would you want to shackle yourself to 50 other people to have fun?
For the people who set up and run the raids, why would you want to play cruise director for the masses, doing all the work while some dick working on his 16th alt wins the prize?
The biggest mistake that SoE made was introducing raid mode in the first place.
It created far more headaches than joy.
It trivialized lower content.
It turned normal people into greedy fucks.
It forced the studio to crank out content faster than they should have because the malcontents were burning through it faster than should be possible.

I might sound like some crying bitch who didn’t get to raid. Oh no. I was one of those cruise directors. I led a guild and I led the masses into raids. Sure, I had some fun, but looking back, It wasn’t worth it.

Hell, I had more fun leading 60 people into Velketor’s Labrynth when the expansion first came out with the objective of exploring than any dragon or plane!

Anyway, fuck holly longdale. She should resign and do something that doesn’t face the public. She isn’t qualified for the job.

Covenant_U
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Covenant_U

I don’t see the logic.  The decision to instance is about access to raid content, it doesn’t guarantee success.  If two guilds and a group of motivated casuals can take down three Nagafens in three instances on the same night, what’s the big deal?  What she’s really saying is we want to reward those with the capability to take down a raid mob AND the willingness to cockblock others.  Or, put differently, it’s not just enough that I have so little of a life that I can kill the raid mob, but me and so many of my equally jobless poopsock friends can mobilize at a moment’s notice to take the rare mob down before anyone else can.  And it’s important to me to equip my group with non-instanced gear and to sell rare loot to the masses so I can fund my move up to dominate the next raid mob and so forth.  

I think reasonable instancing allows those who may have the capability and skill to take a raid mob down to do so without battling the l33t timetables.  Hell, if I want to magnificently wipe a raid attempt with some of my casual friends, who does it hurt?   Ubers will still get more chances and more successes and get the bragging rights their diminished digital selves crave.

I don’t mind raiders climbing the ladder first (and often), I mind them pulling the ladder up behind them.

ManastuUtakata
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ManastuUtakata

EatCandy 
Someone a should also tell them, “not to worry”, as dinosaurs did eventually die out. /shrug

DamnDirtyApe
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DamnDirtyApe

Midgetsnowman Ehra FooBunny3 I mean, I agree that it sucks when all the good stuff is camped all the time… but that was what EQ was like back then.  It seems like a lot of people here want EQ to be something it wasn’t.

DamnDirtyApe
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DamnDirtyApe

dorn2 DamnDirtyApe This is the way that content WAS when it was relevant.  This is what EQ was like back then, warts and all.

DamnDirtyApe
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DamnDirtyApe

People used to do that back then too.  There was always tons of drama over which guilds killed which bosses, or which guilds were camping certain mobs.

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

dorn2 DamnDirtyApe the problem of course being, as this server has shown, people are a lot more savv than they were back then, and have both the knowledge and the money to use every tactics under the sun to lock everyone out of the endgame except themselves.

dorn2
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dorn2

DamnDirtyApe 
No the point is to create the progression ladder in a more concrete way than a simple server reset.

dorn2
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dorn2

Diskonekted 
That’s not what this is about.  Raiding in old school EQ wasn’t about being large scale really.  It wasn’t difficult either.  It was just about having an organized group who would be ready at the dime of a hat to kill the boss.  There’s also tons of dirty stuff like using dc exploits and trains vs competing guilds.

The only reason you’d see huge groups is it made the fights face roll and let you kill the boss really fast.

dorn2
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dorn2

Equating a lack of organization to being casual is sickening.  An MMO should not be about joining a team.  It should be about playing with your friends.  That includes Bill who watches TV when he should be healing people.

wjowski
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wjowski

EatCandy 
Then your game can turn into a ghost town withing five months of launch!

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

Styopa skoryy FWIW, i think the “lazy kids” thing is a hilarious lie. It supposes that if all the kids out there would just get their gumption up and walk out their front door theyd magically get their dream jobs and that theyre totally all sitting on their asses doing nothing but playing videogames

It completely ignores the job market, the factors of luck and who you know, and even the fact that a lot of people work hard every day and go nowhere fast.

Styopa
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Styopa

skoryy Styopa Hey, if you can’t argue the message, attack the message-bearer – that’s JUST as ancient a technique, right?
FWIW I *don’t* believe I should get a participation ribbon, I *expect* that people who work harder than me get better rewards, and I don’t believe that “simply wanting it really really much” means anything.  I’m not above those lazy kids, I was one of them until I grew up.

AdmiralJack
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AdmiralJack

paragonlostinspace AdmiralJack  Nowhere in my text did I say or ask that raid targets be dumbed down or made easy.
I will say it again, anyone that has the necessary forces and the knowhow on how to do the job should be able to get it done.

Most of the newer raid content in the game is instanced. They are hard, as they should be, but they aren’t something that can be cockblocked by the malcontents who do nothing but play the game.

Styopa
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Styopa

Detton My reply seems to have been eaten, so sorry if I say this twice:
I agree with you, but would make 2 points:
1) “studied” isn’t the same as smart.  That affects your point significantly.
2) I would argue that you’re looking at the wrong end of the stick; you cannot disagree that it’s MUCH easier for a person to be stupid and survive today than any time previously?

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

fangGWJ of course,. you also have to qualify that progression servers arent old everquest. the sheer amount of botting, multiboxes, and other fuckwittery monopolizing endgame spawns due to everquest being easy as shit to run 10+ copies of on modern high end pcs means that endgame will never be anything but a club for those with lots of time and disposable income to burn on cheating everyone else out of all the spawns.

Rhiyannon
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Rhiyannon

i’m a hardcore player, level 49, letting my 50 come and go… why? because unless i want to join TL, apok or one of the others i wont see raiding.
trying to gear up in hate and fear on ragefire is a nightmare of ksing/mob charming/memblur/mage bots/mage armies/training and other asshattery blocking the gearing and raiding, nevermind the regular areas. this is why i want instancing, not to make things easier, but to make it so i can do stuff without dealing with all the bullshit. i’m not even going to do more than mention the mass suspensions for the cheating 3rd party software.

yeah… working as intended… it’s all sunshine and lollipops and exactly the way the “raiders” want it. i’d rather be considered a filthy casual, than to be the asshole required to be a raider thanks.

Diskonekted
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Diskonekted

I don’t really agree with how she said it, but I do agree with sentiment.  That is the type of game EQ was/is not sure what it is like now…But I mean for those people looking to play on a progression server I imagine they are trying to recapture a bit of the old feeling and nothing about that should be altered in anyway if possible.

I don’t play WoW anymore but if they made a progression server I certainly would, but if they turned all the old raid in vanilla from 40 mans to 10 mans you best believe that would quickly kill my interest.

tobascodagama
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tobascodagama

Midgetsnowman breetoplay Styopa “… quit merely 6 minutes in after remembering just hoqw bullshit old MMO interfaces were.”

Also my experience with the Anarchy Online engine update.

paragonlostinspace
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paragonlostinspace

AdmiralJack Btw to clarify myself, to me rewards include the ability to say that you “beat monster X”. Not to say that you can only get the best gear from these defeated foes. I wanted to add that because Bree made some rather great points further down the posts about that and I strongly agree with her. :)

paragonlostinspace
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paragonlostinspace

breetoplay Ok, now that’s a great point Bree. I agree, the gear best or otherwise shouldn’t be locked behind the raiding gate or the hardest content. Its an artificial mechanic that breaks immersion to some extent. Sure, awesome gear “could” be behind some nasty boss but to limit to only being behind the defeat of such a foe is a silly mechanic construct and I agree that the implementation of this really screwed over the mmo-rpg genre.

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

Ehra FooBunny3 thats kind of a really bullshit thing though. ‘well, you’re experiencing what iot really was like” doesnt really excuse it, it just tries to by pretending the fact world bosses were camped day and night meant that was totally something everyone wanted to see again

fangGWJ
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fangGWJ

I think you have to qualify her statement.  I think you have to include “on progression servers”.
Because the mmo world has long moved on from locking out raiding for anyone not of the most elite.
You can argue that you miss it, but the problem is then that becomes a self defeating design where you keep having to develop content that 90% of your players cannot play.

paragonlostinspace
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paragonlostinspace

AdmiralJack    

My opinion players that don’t want to put more effort into more rewards are playing the wrong genre of mmo. They should play some other genre of mmo and stop asking for mmo-rpgs to be more like handheld games and stuff you find on Facebook.

 Though I don’t really get into the hardcore these days and I am more of a casual player, I don’t want to continue to see the dumbing down of challenging content just so everyone gets to have a trophy. That said, I do believe that there “is” content for everyone in an mmo-rpg, I just don’t believe that “everything” should be accessible without effort and merit just because you pay a sub or bought the game.

 Doing so removes all sense of achievement and risk/reward mechanics balance. Diminishing the risk/reward mechanics just leads to more bored players who devour content like locust, get bored, bitch and whine and then move on to another mmo-rpg to repeat the process with. Repeat…repeat..repeat and you have what we have here now by and large in the mmo-rpg genre. Meaningless fluff mechanics and content that bores the players who roam from mmo-rpg to mmo-rpg. Ugh.

Dystopiq
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Dystopiq

AdmiralJack  “She has the PR skills of a Somali pirate.”

skoryy
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skoryy

Styopa And, of course, by being ‘above it all’ and especially above those entitled lazy kids, you can be the specialist snowflake of them all. Unique and flawless in your edgy cynicism.

skoryy
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skoryy

DamnDirtyApe FooBunny3 Just another day of Hyperbole Theatre here on the Internet.

AdmiralJack
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AdmiralJack

Fuck raiding. Hell, fuck anything that turns a hobby into a job.

If a video game requires that you play X amount of hours a day X days a week just to stay relevant, fuck it. Play something else.
If a video game is programmed so that X mob only spawns once per week at a highly predictable time, or upon server reboot, and the only people who have a chance to slice and dice that mob are underemployed greaseballs in moms basement, it is definitely time to play something else.

FIrst and foremost, Holly Longdale is a horrible leader. She has the PR skills of a Somali pirate.
Secondly, the game was horribly programmed almost 2 decades ago, and the people in charge of that code today either don’t know how or are too lazy to fix it.

Instancing the old world raids shouldn’t be about hard core and casuals. It should be about whoever has the numbers and ability to tackle the target.

Those people who praise the old methods and cry for a 1999 simulator are not the ones in the guilds that are managing to dominate the targets. They just have enough people to have coverage and ability 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Regardless, Ragefire turned out to be a big steaming pile to regular people with regular jobs and commitments. When they CAN play, they are forced to compete with those that have the resources to dominate anything worth grabbing.
Lockjaw isn’t much better, as most of the people have put too much time into what they were doing on Ragefire to just start over.

Had an intelligent producer been at the helm at the release of the TLP server, they would have known that the desire was there and had the second server ready to roll ON DAY ONE.
No, it would not have cured all of the problems. There would most likely be another couple of “hard core” guilds on the other server too, but at least there would have been people spread out more evenly and folks might just have had a bit more fun.

Ehra
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Ehra

FooBunny3 
“When it comes down to maybe 40 people holding all the
progression/quest/non-raid bosses hostage on a server, then something
does need to be done regardless of old policies created over a decade
ago.”
When the entire purpose of the server is to create as authentic a recreation of the experience originally offered over a decade ago, I’d say absolutely nothing needs to be done and that everything is working as intended.

Detton
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Detton

A thousand years ago you needed to be able to shoot a bow to kill your food or you would starve. Being studied did little for most people, so “smart” meant that you could hunt and gather and so on.
Times have changed and the skills needed in 2015 are so different that it’s not even the same world. You can’t even compare the two.
The idea of what smart IS has changed, and those people would die off in a week in ‘our world’. It’s not about intellect at all, but what you need I society. It’s not good or bad, it’s just different.
The ‘smart’ people of that day, if they learned to adapt to 2015, would probably have a twitter handle too. Just a thought to mull around in the old noggin.

DamnDirtyApe
Guest
DamnDirtyApe

FooBunny3 Racism?  Seriously?

DamnDirtyApe
Guest
DamnDirtyApe

Isn’t the point of the progression server to bring back ‘old school’ EQ?  As someone who played back in the Kunark days, I don’t really understand the argument.

I’m definitely not a hardcore player of anything anymore, but in old school EQ the ‘hardcore’ played the most, did all the raids, and got all the good loot.

FooBunny3
Guest
FooBunny3

Holly’s remark creates a level of racism in the game.. She has now defined casuals and raiders.  One has more rights over the other by her statement.  This game is for entertainment; I don’t want to pay to be placed in a category and then discriminated against as a result.  Especially when DayBreak says “Play it your way”.   I pay the same $15/month that the raider does.

A casual may  not always be a soloer, they may group and they may even participate in lower frequency raiding guilds.  They also have not always asked for a mob level to be tuned down.. heck they usually don’t have the spare time to sit on these forums and even give an opinion.  What they do is play your content and take their time about it.  It is not accurate to say these people haven’t put in the “sweat equity” to the game.

The next problem here is the content was created more than 16 years ago now.  The technology for instancing and multiboxing wasn’t there.  The game is not in its pristine out of the box condition as it was when it was released.  Let’s face it there was no way in heck that Naggy was taken down in two days after the game released all those years ago.  Advantages are being taken and with a huge player base on just one server instead of many on release day; it is time that Daybreak makes some changes .  I know you have limited resources, but you are expecting these servers to be paid access; therefore you should be supporting them at a paid level.  You also have micro transactions with specific items for these servers, the expectation is support for all this money dinging you are doing.

Then we have the gold sellers that make up some of these raid groups or six boxers or just afk botters that us casuals have no choice but to give them Krono to get any gear that isn’t just a regular non loot mob, because they are so busy auto camping them with auto target mage pets that we can’t get a hit in fast enough.  Heck it happens right away in the newbie yards, just go visit Paineel’s starting area and good luck getting any bone chips.  I have also witnessed auto camping by Pyzin which interferes with the Monk headband quest at lower level (which would be casual content).

When it comes down to maybe 40 people holding all the progression/quest/non-raid bosses hostage on a server, then something does need to be done regardless of old policies created over a decade ago.  That isn’t just raider elitism, it is serious advantages being taken over the general population and Holly and Daybreak are allowing it to continue.

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