Divergence Online’s Ethan Casner on SWG 2.0, open PvP, and edgelords

Star Wars Galaxies-inspired indie sandbox Divergence Online busted out its third alpha and third crowdfunding campaign last week, prompting many of Massively OP’s readers to wonder, “What the heck is Divergence Online?” That’s precisely why I chatted up the game’s lead dev, Ethan Casner, about the status of the game, its open PvP system, and its edgy non-marketing. Enjoy!

Update 9/23/2015 9:30 a.m. EDT: In response in part to your feedback to this article, Casner has announced a stretch goal for a second server that will feature a TEF-based, consensual PvP system.

Massively OP: Some of the assets in your screenshots (and the music!) appear to be dead-on copies of bits from SWG. Are those placeholders? How are you getting away with that without bringing SOE/Daybreak, EA, and Disney down on your head, especially since you’ve been operating for several years already?

Ethan Casner: Just being careful and mindful, more or less. You won’t find anything actually attached to the Star Wars brand in Divergence, such as music (that’s just in the non-monetized video), stormtroopers, or assets that persisted or originated outside of SWG-the-game. As many people have pointed out to me. though, at this stage, getting sued by any mouthpiece on the three-headed beast that is Sony/Daybreak/Disney would end up being a blessing to us! Primarily because I’m constantly reaffirmed through counsel that we’re miles away from any legitimate infraction and just think of the exposure!

In all seriousness, you’re correct in that Divergence does contain many things that resemble SWG simply because… that was the whole point. Some of them are placeholders; some of are here to stay, such as the big harvesters and buildings. The responses I’ve gotten through email and other means when people hear “that old interface” and see the interiors of those buildings they once knew, I can only describe as “quite emotional.” And that’s exactly the response we were going for. You need to understand that this is a community that more or less scattered to the wind 10 years ago. Careers have come and gone since. Relationships, the same. After 10 years, these people are convinced those times are gone and they will never, ever, return. If you’re one of those people, you’re broken on some level. Jaded. Ruined by knowledge of what fun actually was like before… well, this age we’re in of SWTOR. Even if the graphics are updated, and the universe is unfamiliar, the moment you log in and your characters feet touch the cold surface of that cloner, the moment your ears first hear the sound of the harvesters outside, your brain rips you right back there and you’re like a child again.

The decision to go for open PvP is a big sticking point for those in our audience who loved SWG’s consensual TEF system. What made you go that route? Are you not concerned it will limit your audience since there are already so many other sandboxes with this style of play? How will you stop your game from becoming a gankfest, thus negating all the other yummy gameplay bits in the box?

There was a ton of stuff that I personally loved about SWG, thus why we’re doing this, but in no way do I consider it to have been perfection. The TEF system, while there was a /citywarn, was really cool. However as the years went on, I’ve found that I ended up actually enjoying the experience of non-consensual PvP more. At first glance, a person will look at this and say, “Well, obviously in a system that allows anyone to be attacked at any time, all you’re going to get is mindless chaos,” but just like you come to find out in life, things often don’t happen the way you expected they would at first glance.

Is there utter bedlam in EVE Online? Is the black voice of space painted pink with clouds of frozen blood, suspended in the trade-lanes? Not really. What about the hundreds of other open PvP games such as Lineage II? Surely they’re building castles purely out of severed heads by now, right? Not at all.

In fact, oddly enough, investigation will reveal to you the truth, which is that open-PvP MMOs end up being some of the longest-running, most successful MMOs ever, and with arguably the best communities. It’s my personal belief through years of observation that this stems from the type of player that they attract and nurture, and those are the players that Divergence wants.

In my experience, when you find out that you can attack anyone at will, that feeling lasts about four seconds, right up until the moment you realize they can attack you as well, at which point society in these MMOs tends to stabilize. The only thing an open-PvP system does is give you the thing that I’ve personally come to treasure most, which is freedom: the freedom to do something, the knowledge that, should you choose to accept the consequences of that action, you still could do it, is I believe absolutely crucial.

Therefore, absolutely you’re right. I’m sure a good percentage of people will see “open PvP” and immediately lose interest based on their first impression, but those aren’t the people we’re looking to recruit; what we want are adventurers.

The SWG emus pull a significant chunk of players who miss old-school SWG; I know I have been waiting for the no-wipe Suncrusher server for what seems like forever. How do you think you measure up next to it? Do you hope to pull players from it?

Virtually everyone I know has an SWGEmu account. And yet, I don’t know anyone who plays it seriously. I’m very, very glad it exists, as I’m sure many people are, but its goals and future are vastly different from that of Divergence.

Primarily, the emulators more or less set out to exactly reproduce the original pre-NGE SWG client and experience, down to the last detail. They want nothing changed. Whereas Divergence sets out to “pick up where SWG left off and develop a whole new experience.” A good comparison might be Victorian houses. There will always be people who want to live in an old Victorian house, as close to original as possible. And yet, there will also always be those who want to live in a new house in the Victorian style. People who want to log in and occasionally relive SWG exactly as it was will be able to do so, but at the understanding that its capabilities will never be greater than it was then. If you want a future, you download Divergence.

Some of our readers reacted really strongly to the way your Indiegogo is worded. Some appreciate the candor, while others… well, one called you an “edgelord” for your blunt, expletive-laden descriptions. Why market yourself in this way?

I’m not really sure what an “edgelord” is, but to be honest, that actually sounds cool as hell! Like I’m a stone-cold Samurai warrior… or is that perhaps one of those trendy new phrases meant as some sort of composite compliment/insult like “tryhard”? I can’t quite keep up with the rate they’re making up internet words, but now I’m totally wanting “Ethan Casner – Lord of Edge” on my business cards!

There was never any actual marketing plan.

I went into business for myself years ago because I realized that, while I can act and conduct myself in a professional manner when I need to, such as when representing others, for me it’s a taxing practice that I just didn’t see myself performing the rest of my life. I’m just a hermit game developer who got stuck being the voice of a project they care passionately about simply because there was no one else able to do it.

In fact, history will show that I/we did try the “professional approach” for several years. It’s just that for all my carefully chosen words and considerate language, it wasn’t until I just sort of gave up trying and went for the “no bullshit approach” that people started responding and our progress really picked up.

You could say that our approach simply targets a different demographic now: those without delicate sensibilities. And when deciding whether or not to invest their money in a new game project, those people seem to care about only three things:

  • Are the claims made true/verifiable?
  • Is the product/game worthwhile?
  • How confident do I feel in the developers’ sincerity and dedication?

Since 2013, we’ve simply been offering up those three things in abundance to all-comers, and since then we’ve yet to have a campaign fail.

I know you said the latest crowdfunding campaign is intended to add combat so the game is more than crafting simulator 2015. What’s wrong with Crafting Simulator 2015, I ask you?! (I would play that.) But seriously, what will happen if you don’t meet your goals for funding combat? Will you release the crafting module anyway?

The crafting module is already released and live. Go check it out! Everything you see in the first and second video is “as it is” in the game right now. That’s a big part of how we do things: We show you what we’ve done with your money up to this point so you’ll believe us when we tell you about the new stuff we want to fund.

Are you anticipating future campaigns after this one, or is this the capstone once combat is fully in place?

We expect this will be the last before launch. There are a number of things that we wanted to offer up for sale in this campaign that unfortunately weren’t in the cards, so we aren’t totally ruling it out, but the goal is to make it to launch without the need.

We’d like to thank Casner for his time and honesty. The game is currently accepting pledges on Indiegogo.

Update 9/23/2015 9:30 a.m. EDT: In response in part to your feedback, Casner has announced a stretch goal for a second server that will feature a TEF-based, consensual PvP system.
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182 Comments on "Divergence Online’s Ethan Casner on SWG 2.0, open PvP, and edgelords"

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robaroo
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robaroo

“We need SWG 3.0   a true 2015 version. Modern graphics with the “same original style of gameplay” SWG offered.”

Thats what i wrote..Not the shit your trying to throw back at me.

The emulator is fine. We dont need the original SWG sounds, interface, buildings etc etc in another game.    Adding new characters and upgrading the graphics and trying to sell it off aint going to cut it and those that actually do log in and look for themselves will quickly notice how much of a blatant rip off it actually is. You didnt even bother removing the interface sounds.

Its obvious you fellas have talent but your version is shit. Really really shit. No other way to describe it im afraid. We watched the videos and jumped on the hype train too…but after loggin in…the train crashed big time.

Few of us logged in and thank fook we did before throwing money at it. Yes it was pretty but thats all it offered.

Did i mention the 18fps which made it pretty much impossible to explore or even enjoy that first impression?

So respect for doing a good job (original) on the graphics and characters….the rest i can see (and more) in the emulator.

EthanC
Guest
EthanC

robaroo

“I dislike Divergence because I think it has the same stuff as SWG just with better graphics”
“I want there to be a new SWG 3.0 with the same stuff as SWG but with better graphics.”

And some people wonder why we don’t take every single opinion offered into consideration XD

quixadhal
Guest
quixadhal

emayinin quixadhal The problem is understanding the motivations of the players.  Open PvP assumes players want competition and will enjoy the thrill of having to be on their toes, and the fun of an unexpected PvP battle.

In reality, most PvP players want to win, and many of them also want to feel superior to everyone else.  Those who want to win will do their best to stack the deck in their favor…. so instead of random 1 on 1 fights, you end up with occasional gang vs. gang fights, but more often gang vs. solo fights.  So, while you’re out trying to harvest that last bit of foobarium, a gang of 4 to 6 PvP people working as a team with voice comms descends on you and slaughters you before you can even react.

If that gang is ALSO of the mentality to want to feel superior, they will spend the time to grief you, hanging out near spawn points, or following you to make your gameplay session unproductive until you log out, or run back to some safe spot to hide.

Now… if you keep PvE and PvP entirely isolated, you *CAN* have some pretty interesting opportunities.  For example, if the game in question had seperate PvE and PvP gear slots, and if crafted gear were actually useful… one could have PvP enabled zones where resources to craft PvP gear were found.  A PvE person never needs to go there unless they want to craft PvP gear to sell, in which case the risk vs. reward might be worth it.

Every MMO I’ve ever played has always fallen hard when they mixed PvE and PvP systems.  They are really two distinct games with two distinct audiences.  Even if you enjoy both, you have to play differently and put yourself in a different mindset to do well at each.

robaroo
Guest
robaroo

Played SWG since the beta and until it closed down. To say the least, ive seen and pretty much done it all. I miss it but accept the fact it was 12 yrs ago since the game was released. Ive done the emulator and even jumped into The Repopulation. Its just not the same.

The thing is (for me) the graphics still feel 12yrs old. This “SWG 2.0” looks to me as the same 12yr old game with a little buffed up graphics and pretty much the same items in the original (how your getting away with it beats me). Im afraid that once the hype train of the swg fan base has passed, this just wont last.

We need SWG 3.0   a true 2015 version. Modern graphics with the same original style of gameplay SWG offered.

Surely its time for something that can last the next 10-12yrs, instead of something that will be fun for a year and then quickly start feeling old again.

FacelessSavior
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FacelessSavior

You are consenting when you download the open world pvp game and log on. If you don’t like it, there’s hundreds of Triple A options that don’t have it. No one is being forced.

Skyewauker
Guest
Skyewauker

I am digging the game, but I don’t know HOW IN THE WORLD they haven’t gotten sued yet.

Skyewauker
Guest
Skyewauker

emayinin Skyewauker Pauleh Please read my post?  
“And I can’t sign up on the forums”.
Pretty self explanatory yea?

DeVoDeVo
Guest
DeVoDeVo

EthanC This just seems like a cash grab for PVE and SWG fanbase money to me.  I think readers need to research the history of this developer and the game he has been trying to develop.

DPandaren
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DPandaren

EthanC The only thing to get right with it is to have faction less players at this point.

Walah
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Walah

EthanC This is an extremely intelligent move. You have my complete respect. I’ll make sure to spread the word as far as I can. This isn’t just good news for the carebears though. In a universe where players depend on each other for items, it’s nice to know someone is making the things I need, while I’m out kicking Yu-know-what.

groo the wanderer
Guest
groo the wanderer

Another kickstarter !!! It must be a day with a Y in it .

cald
Guest
cald

Well I would only play on the open PVP server, i backed one of your first campaigns and was impressed with the game when I jumped in for a bit of testing.
I know you have taken a lot of flack for doing numerous campaigns and taking a long time to do things but i dont mind I like the ideas you have and what I have seen so far has been good.

As for catering for people who want a flagged pvp system thats a good thing but I hope it does not take away from the main game.

MontjoyOnew
Guest
MontjoyOnew

EthanC Let us assume you succeed and launch with 2 servers. 
Then after launch it is found to be impossible to run 2 servers (costs/workload/whatever). 
What criteria will be used to determine which one closes? Is is automatically the pvp optional server? Is it the one with the smallest population?

Estranged
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Estranged

I would sleep on it Ethan, but I do appreciate your listening.

EthanC
Guest
EthanC

Skyewauker I sent you an email with all the info :)
Pauleh You might get that bug if you accidentally click the password field before the username field. Just start registration again and you should be fine. If you still have problems, just message us on the tech support part of our forums and i’ll be on it like stink on a monkey! :)

http://www.Divergence-Online.com/forums

emayinin
Guest
emayinin

synergi1 Well there you go, there’s an added goal for PVE.

emayinin
Guest
emayinin

CloakingDonkey Up above he just announced he is going to do a stretch goal.

emayinin
Guest
emayinin

Skyewauker Pauleh On the forum he said he gets a lot of mail sent to his spam/junk, send him a message on the forum and he’ll respond instantly.

emayinin
Guest
emayinin

Mitzruti He posted an update. =)

EthanC
Guest
EthanC

http://divergence-online.blogspot.com/2015/09/divergence-announces-new-pvp-optional.html

You’ll be seeing an announcement soon that goes into greater detail, but I just wanted to make one more post on this line to let all you “PVE Carebears” know that it looks like you’re getting what you want after all ;)

Divergence is SWG 2.0 in many ways, and in many ways it’s original. We really feel like, if people give it a chance, they’ll come to both appreciate and love the excitement of a truly open-pvp experience. 

But…

Until this article on this one website, we had no idea there was such a strong desire for SWGs style of Consensual-PVP as well.

And…

As much as I don’t consider myself a businessman, I’m also not a complete idiot, and with as many people essentially saying “I would contribute but.. open-pvp”, it would be silly to completely discount the potential to bring in funding to the game that it definitely needs, while simultaneously proving to those new to the project that here is a developer who listens to the community.

So…

We round-tabled about it for a good part of today, reading comments, spitballing ideas and figuring up what all would be entailed in a hypothetical scenario where we ran two servers simultaneously.

The result was that we decided to take the advice of one of your commentators, Mr Quincha, and indeed framework a stretch goal for our campaign that would, in fact, result in the creation of a secondary server with consensual (TEF) pvp.

There are a lot more things to consider than you may or may not be aware of when choosing to romance such a big move, such as the dispersion of resources and the ramifications on the primary server. We feel that after today we have as firm a grasp on the outcome of this decision as anyone could manage, and have thus announced our intent on our devblog and on the indiegogo campaign as well.

The exact details of “the new PVP-optional server” will be posted to MassivelyOPs new announcement as soon as it’s convenient for them, and it’s also available right now on our campaign page for anyone who wants to see what all it entails and promises.

So as other have stated on this thread, time to let the PVE-ers put their money where their mouths are ;) This is an actual MMO developer coming to the table and saying, “You’ve told us this is what you want… We give a damn what you think, and we’re going to prove it. Just help us meet this goal (which is a pathetic sum of money) and we will absolutely add it to the game for all to enjoy.”

The pure-PVPers have carried us this far. Now’s the time to find out if the PVE-ers have the same amount of salt. Let’s see what you can do guys! :)

synergi1
Guest
synergi1

9 days to raise 2 grand. He’s asking for 15,000. How many think he would have it and then some if not for the open pvp? SWG fans are passionate about that game. If this is what they wanted, I think he would have made his funding in one day.

emayinin
Guest
emayinin

quixadhal What if resource heavy areas were pvp/open and certain areas weren’t, or if you built a city you could declare it PvP free?

Pauleh
Guest
Pauleh

EthanC Ok, so it’s full pvp.  Someone has placed a harvester on my lawn and titled it ‘Pauleh Sucks’, I kill him.  Harvester is still there with the years worth of maintenance, so what’s your point?

You say it’s SWG 2.0, what happens to all those non combat professions, they really would be SOL in a forced pvp environment.  Cantinas would be empty, there would be no congregating with other folks as it would turn into a massive kill fest.

Skyewauker
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Skyewauker

Pauleh Skyewauker Yea I did too.  I emailed the main guy that did the kickstarter.  Hoping to get a response.

Pauleh
Guest
Pauleh

Skyewauker I get ‘invalid fields’ when trying to register in-game.

Madtexican
Guest
Madtexican

Please do not invoke the name of SWG if you are going to gut one of the core mechanics that made great. You can make whatever game you want with whatever mechanics you want, but…please do not play on peoples fond memories to make you money. Claiming your game id SWG 2.0 simply because it has the same UI and the buildings look the same on the interior just doesn’t get it done. SWG is a classic because to me, it is a game that almost every mechanic in it made social gaming its priority. Go take your bait and switch somewhere else…please

Skyewauker
Guest
Skyewauker

No one at all?

quixadhal
Guest
quixadhal

Open PvP can be a lot of fun… but usually isn’t.

In short term games, like first person shooters, there isn’t much in the way of character progression.  So being killed doesn’t matter.  You can easily play until you start improving, or get frustrated and quit for a while.  When you come back, you’re not behind the curve.

In progression games though, like most MMO’s, each gaming session has to give you some progress or you end up falling further and further behind everyone else.  In a PvE game, that doesn’t matter…. those level 50 brown bears will still be there to harvest, even if everyone else has moved on to the level 70 grizzly bears.  But in PvP, the longer you languish at the bottom, the more people pile on top and make it harder and harder for you to make any progress.

This ensures that casual players NEVER feel like they’re accomplishing anything, and likewise for players who can’t group all the time, or who have older equipment (lag) or poor reflexes.

SWG was brilliant in their covert/overt system.  You could accept the PvP risk by doing the higher reward overt missions, or stay covert and be safe from it… unless you did the work to become a Jedi.  If you were dedicated enough to be a Jedi and get that reward, you had to take the risk of being always overt.

I played EVE-Online.  I know how it works.  PvP is a bloodbath unless you have the time and energy to find a corporation to join and always play with them, in groups, with voice comms and clearly defined goals for the night.  Hopping in for a half hour wasn’t an option unless you stayed in empire space, where PvP was controlled a little bit by concord.

Skyewauker
Guest
Skyewauker

I am trying to register for the forums.  WTF does OSI stand for.  Is this a trick question lol?
And how do you log into the crafting portion of the game listed on the indiegogo?

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

SallyBowls1 jefreahard Archebius If you look at the first Kickstarter’s pitch and the assets/interfaces/system that are dead-on SWG, it’s the former. I can see where a cynic would look at it and see the latter, though, at this late stage in crowdfunding and given this particular dramatic design shift.

Armsbend
Guest
Armsbend

This guy got 156 comments on an interview.  It seems he got some of the attention he was reaching for.  Well done MoP and well done Divergence.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

Samizdat Mark Jacobs breetoplay andybbtt11 MOP is a business.  Most of its readers – and the market – dismiss them to the gankbox pile. I can’t see the profit to MOP in giving them much coverage.   In fact, this financially-tiny effort has gotten two articles recently which strikes me as decent considering other games are 1000+ times larger.

Most but not all of the derision and dismissal of these sort of games comes from the readers not the MOP writers.

rabidpanda
Guest
rabidpanda

Too bad… I was totally on board with this game until… well… You had me until “Open PVP”.  I despise the notion nowadays.  I have played many Open PVP games, and while on a statistical level, on paper, they may seem “stable”.  The gaming experience is radically different.  As gamers, we should have a choice regarding our Gank-able status.  At least some of the time.

stjerneodd
Guest
stjerneodd

Well good luck to them.  Just mentioning the two hot words, SWG and PvP, made the comments go through the roof.  Unfortunately I don’t see a huge player base for this.  People are not going to spar in their game like they are here.  I hope it works for them, they are betting with their financial future, over what I see as either laziness or inability.  Good luck guys

synergi1
Guest
synergi1

I’d gladly fund it, but not on an open world PVP. Having people interfere with what you want to do constantly isn’t freedom for everyone.

I really wish Dev’s would stop putting their personal likes first. If you are going to call it a SWG successor, then get out of the way with your personal likes. SWG wasn’t just a PVP community.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

Bannex19 I also the best works of art come from a labor of love but also think that bad products come from their as well.  Art is about well art, but if you are selling a product, you need to please the customer.

How many of these labors of love are realistic about I’m going to make what I like and it will probably fail and be gone in a year or two?  Usually hubris causes them to think lots of people like what they do; or worse think lots of people do like what they do.

schmidtcapela
Guest
schmidtcapela

EthanC 
The main issue I see with open PvP is that others can have a direct, and strongly negative, influence on my gameplay, including forcing me to either engage in PvP or leave the game.

If someone is being a jerk in PvE, it’s just a nuisance. If the game has poorly done systems I might lose a bit or be forced to see an ugly vista, but I’m not otherwise prevented from playing in whichever way I want, or from simply ignoring the jerk. Ignoring them tends to make those people leave anyway.

If the game forces me to be available for PvP all the time, then the jerk can do much worse. He can prevent me from playing, he can cause me large setbacks, and — worse of all — he can force me to play the PvP game he wants even if it’s not what I currently want to play.

Now, I do agree that there are many nice players in those games. But it’s like the rotten apple in the bushel; if among dozens or hundreds of players there is a single jerk, able to use PvP actions to impair my game, I already consider the game not worth playing, as that single empowered jerk will have a stronger impact on my enjoyment than the potentially hundreds of positive interactions I could have with other players.
BTW, this comes not from empty conjecture, but from over a decade playing many kinds of MMOs, including open PvP ones. After my last stint with EVE I have vowed to never again, for as long as I live, play any MMO where I might be forced into a PvP situation while trying to play PvE.

Estranged
Guest
Estranged

I appreciate your passion. Also can see your view on resources. Understand your viewpoint on methods of self defense against morons. Sorta wild west justice?
Good luck, I’ll be keeping an eye on the project.

StClair
Guest
StClair

EthanC One of the problems, IMO, is that the people who engage in that sort of behavior tend to be much, MUCH more invested in it.  They practice at it.  So if you challenge them, trying to make them stop or go away, they will defeat you.  And then do it again, anyway.  They get what they wanted all along, which is you providing more entertainment, more activity, for them.

One player is trying to promote and provoke conflict with others, the other wants to have nothing to do with such things at all.

StClair
Guest
StClair

Samizdat breetoplay Archebius Bannex19 Or they’ll keep making the same mistakes.

StClair
Guest
StClair

schmidtcapela Quincha These people are so convinced that open PvP is “better”, yet when people are allowed to vote with their feet/eyeballs, they tend to vote against it.  Makes you wonder.

EthanC
Guest
EthanC

Holy… Wow, I had no idea this article would spawn so much discussion!

As much as I try to distance myself from engaging in FFA discussion (and the abuse that more or less always comes with it), The hate-to-genuine-inquiry rate here tells me it might not be a complete waste of time to engage on the subject.

There are a couple things I’d like to invite people to consider.

The first one is aimed at ex-swg players. If you aren’t, please don’t weight in.
How many times in that game did some ass put a harvester directly on your lawn with “this guy sucks”, or plant a huge house right on top of a great resource spot where you wanted to collect?

It seems like the vast majority of people arguing against open pvp are doing so because they believe it’s an invitation for player to grief other players, but what they’re forgetting is that shit is going to happen.. regardless. Like someone pointed out up above, there will ALWAYS be people finding holes, vulnerabilities, exploits and technicalities simply to subjugate other players.

In past-SWG, if any of these situations befalled you, you’re out of luck. Deal with it. And if that person put a years worth of maintenance in that ugly-ass harvester on your lawn, guess what, it’s there for a year.

Deal with it.

There was no mechanism for you to take matters into your own hands and right the wrongs of douchebags.

What open PVP does is put the exact same gun in EVERYONE’s hand. No one’s forcing you to use it, and if you think one person walking into a cantina and open-firing on dancers would result in that same person getting their own face blown off about four seconds later, again, you’re just willfully looking at only the most simplistic of scenarios, and at only one level deep.

And guess what wives and girlfriends, that one random kid that walks in and starts harassing you; The one who /spit in your face and has been making rude gestures to you for the past half hour… You honestly prefer it like this, as opposed to watching him get his teeth kicked in by a dozen cantina dancers or one club bouncer?

The second point I’d like to point out is that our decision to run with open PVP is also derived from the fact that we simply wouldn’t have the resources to maintain both a PVP and PVE-with-TEF server simultaneously. Look at the campaigns. How much money is there?

If we had the resources, we’d run with a primary server, which would be the “story” server with GM story characters and faction leaders played by GMs as well, where open-PVP was the law of the land, and we’d also have a tef-style pve server for the casuals.

I’ll be around for a while longer today while working if anyone has any direct questions for “the idiot responsible for this” ;)

scathson
Guest
scathson

Nice
yet another game I get to completely write off
just too many upcoming games to keep track of so it is quite a pleasure to place some on ignore

dragonherderx
Guest
dragonherderx

Open World PVP has almost never worked out well in more modern games. You need to adopt the TEF system from SWG if you are going to do this sort of thing period. I’ve been playing mmorpgs since they’ve been around. Let me tell you without either harsh consequences to PVP or a TEF system in place PVP ends up being too much of a gankfest. Yes not everyone does it, but a large enough portion of players per server do it to the point that it ruins the experience particularly of new players. I’ve been in MMORPG’s where mid level players were ganked by roving squads of people repeatedly (Aion and Lineage 2 come to mind easily) 

I was into PVP at one point and back in the day you could have open world PVP without the problems because of slightly smaller game communities that were able to actually properly police themselves.

CloakingDonkey
Guest
CloakingDonkey

I’m done with FFA PvP. Good luck though, guy.

CloakingDonkey
Guest
CloakingDonkey

Damonvile Bannex19 free candy and pus? ….. eew…

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

jefreahard Archebius Is this really trying to ” replicate a beloved game” , a ” older PvE MMO (and one that was well loved because of all the totally unique features that it had) “? Cause I would support those goals. OTOH, this seems to be less about recreation and more about increasing funding via fond memories/nostalgia.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

FacelessSavior IMO, you are missing the point slightly.  The problem for the owpvp side is not that we complain, the majority of comments on fansites are complaints. It’s that we won’t purchase.  If all the non-sociopaths – sorry I mean carebears – did not say a single word, then the owpvp games would still be small niches.  The number of people who want pvp but don’t want to eSport is not large enough to fund that large of a development effort.

My guess is I don’t see this as being successful or enhancing the reputation of murder simulators but we shall see what $45k+ delivers.

Walah
Guest
Walah

RagnarTheDrunk breetoplay 
“I’m not sure I understand how giving PvE only players
space in a PvP game helps PvPers. It seems like it would split focus and
content…”
 breetoplay explained it perfectly for you. You simply need a game with enough space and the proper rule-set.

In SWG, the players are responsible for that focus and content. The game was dependable on crafting and professions by other players, so the PvE in SWG can’t simply be reduced to being called “single player”. TEF was perfect for it.

Mitzruti
Guest
Mitzruti

EVE has High-sec that makes ganking a bad idea. it also a world so huge that being alone in space is pretty likely.
Lineage/L2, iirc, has incredibly punishing systems that can render a willy-nilly ganker more-or-less unplayable.

…i think the heart of it is the guy just too damn lazy to do the design/programming work to make his game not a jerkmagnet.

wpDiscuz