The Daily Grind: How would you mix MMO features to create the best one ever?

Today’s Daily Grind question — more like command! — from Massively OP Kickstarter donor Tim is short and sweet:

Mix features to create your perfect MMO.

It always drives me nuts when MMO developers start from scratch — or borrow the tent poles of a single title — when building a new game. There are so many great MMOs out there with so many great ideas. Steal from all of them, right?

My thoughts on what I’d do change every few months, but here’s what I’m feeling today: I’d mix City of Heroes’ level, zone, and combat design with Star Wars Galaxies’ non-combat and housing activities, Glitch’s brilliant crafting system, Guild Wars’ heroes and travel, Guild Wars 2’s cosmetics, WildStar’s setting, and ArcheAge’s character designer. Would that stuff make sense together? Probably not without some work, but I’d play it!

How about you? What favorite game features would you mix together to create the perfect MMO?

Every morning, the Massively Overpowered writers team up with mascot Mo to ask MMORPG players pointed questions about the massively multiplayer online roleplaying genre. Grab a mug of your preferred beverage and take a stab at answering the question posed in today’s Daily Grind!
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70 Comments on "The Daily Grind: How would you mix MMO features to create the best one ever?"

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syberghost
Guest
syberghost

spacecampclan syberghost Gevah that school of thought is primarily characterized by games that launch without a group finder and then have to retrofit one because it turns out customers want what they want, and won’t give you money if they don’t get it.

Developers that don’t listen to their customers never understand exactly why they failed; that is, until after they go work for one that does. Then they get it.

spacecampclan
Guest
spacecampclan

syberghost spacecampclan Gevah Again, you miss the point entirely. There are professionals that determine what people will like. These people do indeed sample the public and test their products on them. They are professionals that are educated and understand psychology, marketing and the practical application of art.

These people do NOT ask the players how to develop MMOs. They do not ask the general public what systems they should use or how to create them. Tolkien didn’t post an internet poll saying “Hey guise, whats yer favorite fantasy characters? I’m makin some books and I need yer advices”.

Developers that can’t use professional resources to develop their games are complete failures.

syberghost
Guest
syberghost

spacecampclan syberghost Gevah Never mind what the customers want, our research says this is better, and they’ll like it or lump it!

Those folks are going to be deciding whether to pay your salary or not.

spacecampclan
Guest
spacecampclan

syberghost spacecampclan Gevah You misunderstand. Developers should be consulting with PROFESSIONAL game testers and other developers. The general public will give you bad information, every time.
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” – Henry Ford

syberghost
Guest
syberghost

spacecampclan Gevah no, this is absolutely the opposite of that. Your doctor isn’t trying to create something that people will enjoy playing enough to pay him for it; asking your customers what they enjoy more is never a mistake. You can make mistakes incorporating their feedback, but ignoring it is every bit as bad.

You’re also making some pretty big assumptions if you think none of that feedback is coming from pros. Everybody working in the gaming industry plays games. Most of them could make more money somewhere else, but they do games instead because they love them. I’ve seen folks leave the company I work for and go across the street to <major AAA game studio> for less money because they love games.

I am one of the people running an IRC network that caters to game developers, and you know what they do all day? Talk about each other’s games. Under fake gamer names that aren’t the same as the ones they use on their forums. Many of the folks you see posting here on these forums are professional game devs.

vinicitur
Guest
vinicitur

nameistake12 LOL. Pretty much what I thought of doing.

spacecampclan
Guest
spacecampclan

Gevah spacecampclan I didn’t say that people couldn’t think whatever they want. It’s just a bad sign when game developers are asking for help from the general public. Imagine being sick and going to the doctor, but he couldn’t figure out what was wrong and decided to ask for help on a public forum. It’s idiotic to say the least, and yet, here we are.

crackfox
Guest
crackfox

The setting would have to be Middle Earth, although I would probably take the time setting from the ICE Merp tabletop (TA1640) along with that game’s selection of races (Woses, Dunlendings etc) and I’d adapt its critical/fumble system to suit a CRPG. Visually, the game would have that sort of painterly style seen in games like Dishonoured, influenced by the art of Alan Lee. I would take a lot of SWG’s non-combat elements although not its open-world housing. The UI would be minimal, similar to TESO, and I’d also take elements of TESO’s combat, along with its skill system, decentralized auctions and exploration aspects. TOR’s voice acting.  LoTRO’s player music system. APB’s character creator. SOEmote maybe. 
Jeremy Soule would compose the music, retaining some of the rustic elements of LoTRO’s score. The world would be huge and seamless, like Vanguard but on a far bigger scale and without the chunking issues. The payment method would have to be premium subscription, possibly with a discrete cash shop offering services but not cosmetics, mounts or pets.

Gevah
Guest
Gevah

spacecampclan No, i say let them imagine and dream, let them draw ideas and design systems, maybe .. just maybe; someone might take the idea to the next level, make it happen, they will face so many challenges and they’ll understand how hard it is to design and make anything.
Let’s not forget that many “professionals” started as amateurs who wanted to make their own games.

spacecampclan
Guest
spacecampclan

mourasaint spacecampclan wjowski Oh look, an egocentric kid that plays games for 2 hours a day.

mourasaint
Guest
mourasaint

spacecampclan wjowski “leave game design to the professionals”

What the hell are you doing on this website then?

spacecampclan
Guest
spacecampclan

wjowski spacecampclan That means we need better professionals making games, not a mob of egocentric kids that play games 2 hours a day.

wjowski
Guest
wjowski

Take the best parts of Asheron’s Call (Open world, frequent and free content updates, no real ‘level power’) mix with some of City of Heroes (Customization, separation of gear and appearence) and Secret World (Writing, skill system) and…well…I’d play it at least.

wjowski
Guest
wjowski

spacecampclan 
The ‘professionals’ are pretty much killing the industry right now so yeah…

fangGWJ
Guest
fangGWJ

Core gameplay style from Dawn of War 2, i.e. RTT or what I call a small squad RTS
inventory/skill system from mechcommander 2 (trust me, its brilliant)
class design from shadowbane, warhammer online or dark age of camelot
class design execution from Diablo 3 (it is one thing to design a class.  it is a whole other thing to get it working well and not just working)
encounter design balancing from SWTOR: player is balanced to handle 3 peons or 1 lieutenant and 2 peons or 1 champion and no peons
setting = diesel punk or renaissance (da vinci punk)
scenario pvp and renown system from warhammer online
art direction from guild wars 2

RicharddeLeonIII
Guest
RicharddeLeonIII

Out of all of those, i think the 5$ monthly sub is least likely. If any new mmo has the balls to require asub nowadays they would stick with the standard 15 if not go higher.

RicharddeLeonIII
Guest
RicharddeLeonIII

For me, I would start with CoH’s setting and sidekicking with Champions’ class power system. Throw in Wildstar/Eq2 housing hybrid. Would also like TSW and Swtor style strorytelling and voicework and SWG crafting/vehicle systems.

zyrusticae
Guest
zyrusticae

spacecampclan Indeed. Chief on my list would be the crazy procedural systems EQNext has been teasing us with, that sadly have not seen any further reveals thus far (who knows what’s going on behind the scenes?). We need crazy innovative stuff like that to really move the genre forward, not just remixing what’s already there (most of which is just more themepark-style directed content).

spacecampclan
Guest
spacecampclan

The perfect MMO would incorporate systems that don’t exist yet. Besides, anything that people throw together on this thread would probably be so niche that the game would fail due to lack of players. Not to mention the fact that certain systems simply can’t work together without causing serious problems.
Leave the game designing to the professionals.

SirMysk Needs (More) Coffee, Probably
Guest
SirMysk Needs (More) Coffee, Probably

I really should flesh out my list for posts like these. There are a ton of things it’s missing. The quick & dirty gist:
* Survival elements inspired by Frostfall but expanded upon
* Multiple races, actual races, not just reskinned humans, with unique traits
* Playable monsters & animals such that players could control random things within certain limitations
* Procedural generated world, manually verified to ensure quality
* Build anywhere since the world is literally the size of a planet
* Risk vs Reward being a real thing again
etc etc etc. http://sirmysk.tumblr.com/post/127892469054/my-ideal-mmo-design-cliff-notes-version

Stormwaltz
Guest
Stormwaltz

Fallen Earth’s mount system and crafting.                                                                                                                                                       
LotRO’s outfit and music systems.
SWG’s PvP and housing systems.
Asheron’s Call’s non-fixed landscape spawns, player-authored books, and vendors that hold on to items sold to them for an interval.

Procedural public content via interrelated systems, as in (non-MMGs) Mount & Blade, Space Rangers, and Sid Meier’s Pirates.

If you must tell set-piece theme park stories, use Instancing, not phasing.

collmomo
Guest
collmomo

Easy:
1. ESO quest and voice acting
2. WoW terrain fluidity and mobility
3. Wildstar Graphics and Combat
4. WoW Arenas and PVPs
5. ESO skill system in a trinity fashion
6. WoW job levelling.
7. ESO merchant system.
8. Tera Guild Controls with tax
9. Flying mounts.
10. Open World PVP
11. Different factions and as many classes as WoW
12. Global chat and Inspect and LFR/LFG
13. Maple story/Guild wars/Wildstar jump puzzle
13.  I love pet combat from WoW…
14. Transmog/Cosmetic stuff like all new MMOs
15. Stealing system with Enforcer/Outlaw system like in future ESO
16.  Difficulty of Wildstar with Elites, with BOM from tera, with Public Events too. 
17. Double Jump for sure
18. Also, gliding as a specific option for wing class/race, like Aion
19. Finally, for the overkill, the announced organic and npc quests evolution from Everquest that was announced. 

Subscription Based. 5$/Month. 10$ for the game. No paywall, nothing.

tobascodagama
Guest
tobascodagama

I feel like actually mixing and matching features piecemeal rather than letting features grow organically from a coherent starting point would result in an unplayable frankengame, but there are a couple of systems I’d like to see a game take and run with:

– Context-sensitive PvP flagging like what I’ve read about SWG
– ESO’s guild merchant system (yes, really)
– ESO’s skill system but in a class-less/level-less context more like TSW
– TSW’s complete separation between cosmetics and stats
– Ascent’s focus on player-driven exploration and building

– A gear system that’s ability/proc-focused rather than stat-focused, which isn’t something I’ve actually seen done anywhere
– Some interesting way to handle offline player characters, maybe like what Chronicles of Elyria has described

Digest
Guest
Digest

WoW + GW1 = Immortality.

thesightless
Guest
thesightless

krieglich borghive The Sojourner

i have been playing this. 
it really really makes me feel like im in EQ again. that sense of WTF am i supposed to do. then having to figure it our by your lonesome… notably.. curing certain status ailments…(no spoilers).

SandboxPodcast
Guest
SandboxPodcast

The best parts of Darkfall, Mortal Online and Wurm.. Perfect game.

nameistake12
Guest
nameistake12

Lets see.  I’d mix TSW combat, LOTRO Legendary Items, Rift’s lore, ESO’s auction house system, WOW’s barrens chat, Tera’s quests all together and let Trion run it.  Guaranteed WOW killer!

thatchefdude
Guest
thatchefdude

vagrent *TSW storytelling*
There, fixed

thatchefdude
Guest
thatchefdude

FFXI and EQ1 sense of slower measured progression and world building
FFXIV armory multi-classing system
WoW sense of polish and funding
Square Enix sense of humility and humbleness
GW2 art style (somewhat, lets not go overboard here)
SWG non-combat activities
DAOC PVP focused activities
I know thats a mouthful buts that’s pretty much my cocktail

vagrent
Guest
vagrent

It would have to have DAoC RvR, GW2 art and combat mechanics with SWTOR story telling.

camelotcrusade
Guest
camelotcrusade

It’s been a good while since I’ve been MMO-Crazy (meaning I have one I play almost every night) and when I am, that question is the one we talk about the most.  What we would be borrow from this one, that one, etc.  Now that I’m puttering in neutral and only occasionally logging in I need another exciting MMO to come along and remind me what it’s doing wrong   Because right now I have low standards.  :p

Apollymi
Guest
Apollymi

SWG pre NGE housing, crafting, consensual pvp, ENTERTAINERS!!.  FFXIV where you only need one toon but can skill up all classes.  SWTOR for companions.

Archebius
Guest
Archebius

Oh man.
I’m not sure whether I could build just one MMO out of my components – might have to make a few. This first one would be my ideal, which means that me and about ten other people would want to play it.
First, there are several components I’d steal from Guild Wars. The world-building was fantastic, especially the transition from the starter zone to the rest of the game. The instancing, while not ideal, gave a sense of loneliness that worked really well with the burned world and soundtrack, and that’s a feeling I’d like to recreate – to feel real, I think any world has to have moments where you’re able to be completely alone. Additionally, the skill “deck” was a fun system that allowed for a lot of unique builds while not requiring you to have five hotbars up at all times. Also, elite skills.
Second, elements of EVE. EVE did several amazing things – a “safe area” and a riskier “PvP area” that offered greater rewards with the trade-off of not being secure. Player-driven economy. Sheer range of skills and customization options. Also, equipment having trade-offs and tactical purposes, rather than being linear. I wouldn’t want to get quite as stat-heavy as EVE, but a lightweight version of the system would be pretty ideal for character development. Just get rid of offline leveling, and make skills use-based. 
Fourth, the small-team tactics of Destiny. Maybe larger raids would be cool, too, but the template would be for small groups, like GW1’s missions and FoW area, that require a high amount of coordination and complimentary builds. Mix classic linear dungeons/raids with more open-world areas that have several boss fights and large areas to explore – assuming you can survive long enough.
Fifth, the feeling of scale and the desperation of ARK. One of my best moments of gaming recently came when my brother’s pet Dilos got killed by a T-Rex back at base. My brother, my sister and I crafted a bunch of spears and went running through the jungle in the middle of the night, only one flickering and flaring torch to see by, our stone and wood weapons at the ready, ready to avenge our pets. We came out into the clearing where his house used to be, a Rex caught on the debris. It towered above us, dead bodies littering the ground. I’ve ever been nearly as intimidated by an MMO boss as I was by that Rex.
Sixth is tied to the above. It’s moments like that about gaming that we remember. Some quests are memorable, some are funny, some are just there for the XP, but I will remember that feeling of running through the jungle with my siblings next to me a lot longer than I’ll remember the Draenei starting zone quests. I’ll remember the sense of satisfaction I got from FoW longer than I’ll remember TERA’s dungeons. And I’ll remember getting noobed out of a nice battlecruiser more than any faction quests I ran in EVE. To have any sticking power, the focus of the game must be on activities that players can do and complete together more than on just giving each player a questline to follow.
So, in summation – a small (7-10) move deck that ties back into a semi-complex background skill system. Armor would be more about what function you wanted to serve than stats, with less (but not no) linear progression and more strengths and weaknesses. The world would be massive and use the same megaserver structure that GW2 uses, but with fewer players in each separate shard. Exploration would be encouraged. There would be more focus on team activities and less on leveling up through a set of quests. There would be some risk of loss when you died, and the further from civilization you got, the higher the reward and the higher the risk.

Oleg Chebeneev
Guest
Oleg Chebeneev

Witcher 3 graphics and level design + EVE Online real economy + Vanguard diplomacy + WoW dungeons and raids + TSW questing and characters + Age of Wushu PvP system + Archeage skills progression + WoW combat system.

tylercles
Guest
tylercles

TSW’s quest design, freeform character building, and currency-based endgame reward system; Neverwinter’s combat system, relaxed trinity, and Foundry; WoW’ seamless open world, easy to use group finders, and rich backstory; WildStar’s housing; SW:TOR’s personal storyline; DCUO’s movement powers; GW2’s art style; ESO’s business model.

Polyanna
Guest
Polyanna

SWTOR on the GW2 engine. All the stories and content of the first with all the mechanics and visuals of the second.

KryptonianGL
Guest
KryptonianGL

1. Setting and Lore: Either DC Universe, Neverwinter (Forgotten Realms) or SWTOR  — love them all!
2. Classes: Based on whichever one of those three settings is chosen — if DC was chosen, then CoX would be a better choice than the crap choices currently in DCUO.
3. Character Creation: Aion or Blade & Soul type in-depth character creation.
4. Visuals: Blade and Soul or ESO visuals.

5. Combat System: Blade & Soul, Neverwinter, ESO, or maybe even a GW2 action-style system.
6. Interface Design: World of Warcraft, SWTOR or GW2.

7. Addon Integration: World of Warcraft
8. Questing: SWTOR (voice-acted questing with choices).
9. Crafting: SWG or Vanguard
10. Sound/Music Quality: LOTRO, SWTOR, or WoW — maybe FFXIV, GW2, Neverwinter or even Warhammer (lots of great choices).
11. Social Systems: SWTOR or WoW — with some fine tuning.
12. Outfit/Wardrobe System: LOTRO or SWTOR with GW2 dye mechanic
13. PvP/Realm Combat: DAOC, Warhammer or ESO
14. Housing: EQ2 or WildStar Housing with DCUO style Bases/Lairs/Hideouts
15. Character Skill Leveling: SWG (You improve a skill the more you use it!)
16. Character Skill Customization: ESO or WoW (old-school talent trees)
Just my 2 cents worth.

ZenDadaist
Guest
ZenDadaist

Hmmm… what kind of mood am I in today? I am in a mood to be as far away in space and time from the world as possible. So, I shall assemble a hodge-podge of bits nicked from MMOs that fit this theme. 
Big-arse tl;dr time for a slow friday afternoon!

First up, I want a setting the size and scope of Eve Online. A whole galactic cluster very far away from earth full of star systems and habitable planets and segments of humanity (and other races…) all in different states of war and alliance. Regional player-driven economies – the lot.

I want the actual setting itself to be in the Anarchy Online universe. It really is a whole detailed universe with thousands of years of history in its lore, civilisations, planetary empires, corporate wars and other epic space opera stories already exist in the setting – just read the flavour text on the trash weapons and armours you loot off grey mobs! 
I want to bring it all together to have both a space and a multi-planetary game, set in all of these systems á la Star Wars Galaxies. Bring it all to life in the AO setting above – from Rubi Ka to the remnants of SOL Banking’s corporate empire, to OMNI-1, to the far flung systems the Kyr O’zch came to call home. And not just as battlegrounds with a different background – bring the non-combat stuff too.

I want the wardrobe system, skill freedom, writing quality and quest/dungeon design of The Secret World. NPCs and quest text and on-the-fly cut scenes with your characters like this would be fabulous. Investigative missions, three-dimensional characters, instance design, anyone can spec to do anything, atmosphere – all of the things! I would add a proper dye system to the wardrobe items though.

I want the instancing and server architecture to work the way it does for the cryptic games Champions Online and Star Trek Online. One super-server that creates sharded instances as capacity on a given area fills up, and that allows easy switching to join your friends/group/etc. Account handle (no, not username) to banish ‘that name is already taken’ is ideal.

I want gound-based combat to allow for customisation of tech and characters (also jetpacks), in a Firefall manner. This is a fluff conceit rather than crunchy mechanics, granted, but customisability and the fact jetpacks are just plain fun are appealing to me.

I want all combat, both ground and space, to involve a measure of tactical strategy and not simply be FPS or twitch-based button mashing. I can’t really find any one or two games that I’d nick wholesale though. It’d probably end up squishing together chunks of Age of Conan and Eve Online while throwing in the active dodging and non-traditional setup options found in games like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2.

And I’ll allow a little excerpt of a more traditional fantasy WoW-a-like by wanting the dynamic zone events and Dimensions/housing from Rift. Masses of players coming together to complete objectives and defeat spontaneous threats that kick off while you’re out and about doing other things. I’d leave out the RNG-driven dimension item lottery though.

Khalith
Guest
Khalith

Firefall- Ability to re-customize your character and even change gender anytime, anywhere, for free.

Tera- Combat and bright colorful visuals.

GW2- Normalized gear PVP and Dye system

FFXIV/GW2- The FATE system from XIV but with GW2’s reward style where you receive level appropriate rewards regardless of the level you are.

WoW- Seamless no loading screen between zones on same continent design.

Lotro- Costume system
Wildstar- Player housing done in their style with the total freedom and huge range of options.
Swtor- Personal Story leveling.  Also I’d use their raid design, the raids in swtor have some nice variety to them that I really enjoyed, the various different bosses and tactics were refreshing to me.  I’d also use their raid sizes (8 or 16) and add the raids to the LFG tool with appropriate high awards for using it to create more of an incentive.

FFXIV- Small group dungeon design, i.e. fairly linear corridors with a good chunk of exp rewarded, also with a much higher reward for clearing the dungeon with a first timer in there.  Also their LFG tool design where it rewards roles that are needed though I’d up those rewards to incentivize players.

treemonster
Guest
treemonster

-Open world exploration with no forced PVP that I haven’t seen in any MMO I’ve actually played. Perhaps Worlds Adrift (at least what I’ve heard about it) without the forced PVP? Maybe with some GW2-style points of interest scattered in, and lore pieces like TSW. I’ve heard the exploration in Project Gorgon is good but I haven’t played it.

-Guild Wars 2 Graphics
-TSW Character Customization (I’m specifically speaking to clothes not affecting stats)
-TSW Quests
-Wildstar Housing, but to be honest I really want it to be like The Sims 3. Open world preferred.

-LOTRO or WoW-like Setting
-Not sure about combat. I haven’t particularly loved the combat of any MMO I’ve played. The only game I really love the combat in is the tactical-style in Dragon Age. Somehow make that work for an MMO?

-The economy is important, too, and I haven’t really seen anything exemplary in anything I’ve actually played. I hear it was pretty amazing in SWG though, so let’s go with that.
-WoW PVP, if included at all (battlegrounds and flagged PVP)

Modrain
Guest
Modrain

“It always drives me nuts when MMO developers start from scratch — or
borrow the tent poles of a single title — when building a new game.”
Aaaah, sorry to read that, but in their defense, while some MMO developers seem to voluntarily (by choice or pressure?) ignore other games or focus on a single one (WoW? what is that?), other goodwilled designers who would like to give a serious look at a variety of games sometimes don’t have the time to play them, especially these time consuming MMOs. They’re not all that clueless (or at least they’re skilled at hiding it). Well, you’re probably aware of it, but it can still be good to be said.
Even when game designers rely on other team members, the cumulated knowledge can be far from being wide, since people are usually playing the same mainstream games. And that’s supposing other developers are players, and playing MMOs. I remember fairly well an MMO development team of ~30 people that had only 6 MMO players, what caused the sorrow of the lead game designer.

bossrprouse
Guest
bossrprouse

The variety of races found in EQ, WoW, War, SWG, SW:TOR, and GW2

SWTOR group questing mechanics

AA system of EQ 1/2

GW2 combat mechanics

EQ2 class dynamics

SWG(Pre-NGE)/CO free-form class creation

STO/NWO UGC forge system

SWG/EQ1 non-combat systems

SWG/GW2 harvesting

SWG/Horizon’s crafting

SWG bartering/action house trading economy (needs better searching controls though)

SWG PvP TEF system

SWG/E:D space flying and exploring system

GW2 art

SWG theme and setting

Pretty much an impossible game unless made by the holodeck computer in Star Trek

Virfortis
Guest
Virfortis

You know what I would legit like to see? An MMO where the combat was more like GunZ. Free running, throw in some Vindictus style sword skills, and have it open world.

krieglich
Guest
krieglich

borghive The Sojourner Try Project Gorgon.

Radfist
Guest
Radfist

1) EQ2 / Vanguard – Races and classes
2) Neverwinter – Interface / combat setup
3) Vanguard / SWG – Crafting
3) TSW – Quests
4) Wildstar – Encounter design
5) WoW – Pet combat / dungeon finder
6) FFXIV – Visuals
7) EQ2 / Wildstar – Housing
8) GW2 – Autolevel to content / dynamic events

jsmooth1
Guest
jsmooth1

EQN as described at its official reveal.
– I’m not very hopeful about it now though… The silence is deafening.

jsmooth1
Guest
jsmooth1

ProfessionalNoob Nordavind Don’t know why; but I liked this.

Rohirrim
Guest
Rohirrim

1) Lotro virtual World, Music and Lore
2) TBC wow classes (talent trees, abilities, combat style, etc)
3) Moonlight Blade / FFXIV character models and customization
4) SWTOR Questing (Full voiced questing with reply options)
5) Lotro / Swtor Outfit system
6) FFXIV Crafting
7) Archeage Sailing
8) ESO PVP (a huge area on the map with an ongoing war)
9) Rift Housing

I am sure I am forgetting something but you get the idea :)

Sarigar
Guest
Sarigar

EverQuest’s world, lore, races, and classes, and Guild Wars 2’s look, engine, UI, and systems. Let me loose in that Norrath, and you’ll never see me again. :)

wolfyseyes
Guest
wolfyseyes

The combat of TERA, the housing of WildStar, the customization options of City of Heroes, the weaponskill and weapon swapping ideas of Guild Wars 2 and the map style of SWG or EQN.

wpDiscuz