ArcheAge bans blockades, griefers cry about it

Those crazy ArcheAge kids, always mucking up the works! The latest bit of fantasy sandpark drama comes to us courtesy of the game’s official forum, where Trion laid the smack down on griefers who were blocking trade routes in safe zones and preventing players from delivering trade packs.

Trion community manager Celestrata outlined the changes, stating that while blockades initially seemed like a desirable offshoot of ArcheAge’s sandbox mechanics, the reality wasn’t as fun as the idea. Aside from the whole forced-PvP-in-a-safe-zone problem, the affected players typically have no way to free themselves from a blockade. As such, blockades are officially disallowed as of October 23rd. Trion did discuss a policy that included allowing blockades in conflict zones, but due to these zones occasionally changing to peace zones, the firm decided that preventing all blockade gameplay was a preferable solution.

You can read the full explanation, as well as a whole bunch of griefer guild tears, via the link below.

Source: Forums; thanks Matt and Kinya!
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176 Comments on "ArcheAge bans blockades, griefers cry about it"

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Robert80
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Robert80

Walah Robert80 TrionCelestrata Lhumierre  Yeah, you don’t get it.  You are convinced that because there are elements of sandbox present, we must consider it a sandbox.  I’m sure that it being a murder simulator is something you would defend too (after all, it has elements of simulated murder.)

Walah
Guest
Walah

Robert80 Walah TrionCelestrata Lhumierre 
 “So you can’t differentiate between ‘opinion on if it is a sandbox’ and
‘not having enough sandbox elements to be considered a sandbox in my
opinion?’  Seriously?”
????? You don’t know the difference between saying something doesn’t exist, and then again saying it exists a little?

“The crop planting is probably the most sandbox thing in the game. ”

  “How are people affecting each other’s gameplay outside quests/PvP/themepark-traditional-elements here?”

…and yet you did it again? smh..lol

syberghost
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syberghost

Kaloth JimGriffiths Rhime and that’s your audience. You have to build your game for your market, not who you wish your market was. Companies either figure this out quickly or die.

syberghost
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syberghost

Passeeo JimGriffiths bambocheur kudos to Trion for fixing the problem, and I seriously mean that because it’s good that they react to mistakes by fixing them instead of circling the wagons or telling people to “harden the eff up” or something, but it still needs to not be lost on them that the players TOLD THEM THIS SORT OF THING WOULD HAPPEN. If you create ways Western players can engage in Player vs. Victim behavior, the usual suspects will do exactly that. On an organized basis. Anybody who’s been in MMOs more than a few years could probably name some of the people doing this without even logging into the game once.

Especially forum moderators.

Kaloth
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Kaloth

JimGriffiths Kaloth Rhime If you went and read the whole thread-of-tears in the article above, you would have seen that this tactic is only used in the NA version of the game. It’s just not a problem in any other region, so it hasn’t been banned in any other region.
Basically, NA players are dicks.

Passeeo
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Passeeo

JimGriffiths bambocheur False. This was not an issue in any version until the EU/NA servers started abusing this. It has been stated that Trion had to get additional bridges put in for the “Western world” to try to alleviate the problems caused by afking players piling multiple vehicles over multiple access points. 
The Trion version is changing for exactly the opposite reason as Jim says. It’s changing because the player base that have been abusing this is not better than the rest of the world. 
You couldn’t play respectfully with the other players so enjoy it when one by one your toys are stripped away.

JimGriffiths
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JimGriffiths

Hanthos there will always be griefers. Like the land barons but you will not see Trion do anything about them.

JimGriffiths
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JimGriffiths

bambocheur yes and they still do. Only the Trion version is changing because they think they are better then the rest of the world.

seemsthatway98
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seemsthatway98

Robert80 Whoa whoa whoa, hold on there. Are you trying to tell me that my cat is NOT a dragon? I’m so disappointed ; ;

bambocheur
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bambocheur

Would be interesting to know if players in the original market, Korea iirc, used these tactics?

melissaheather
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melissaheather

All they need is dynamite or some way to blast a cart or carriage and you have your ’emergent gameplay’ back. 

But I suppose banning it is much easier than adding new game elements like destructible carts.

Robert80
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Robert80

Walah Robert80 TrionCelestrata Lhumierre So you can’t differentiate between ‘opinion on if it is a sandbox’ and ‘not having enough sandbox elements to be considered a sandbox in my opinion?’  Seriously?  *Hint, I’m agreeing that all this is opinions.  On both sides.*
Personally, I don’t consider plot limited housing sandbox.  We have that in plenty of themeparks (set locations also make the entire castle/fort thing moot to me.)  I don’t consider tradepacks sandbox.  For crying out loud, we had that in old Might and Magic games!  Why not just put in a detailed trading system!?!  I do expect the ability to modify the world to some fairly major extent… not just with pre-designated locations and moving my transportation around, when I talk sandbox.  The crop planting is probably the most sandbox thing in the game.  So… you have the ability to modify other’s gameplay by PvP or by stealing from what amounts to Farmville in the open world (technically PvP just not combat.)  You can report clues about crimes (the entire crime system is terrible, and PvP based to boot IMO.)  How are people affecting each other’s gameplay outside quests/PvP/themepark-traditional-elements here?
Sorry, but that’s not sandbox to me.

Zariarn
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Zariarn

I’m reminded of a guild in WoW that blocked up the flight NPC in Ironforge.

Zophie Winters
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Zophie Winters

While I never made a blockade in safe zones personally, I didn’t really mind them existing and there were definitely ways to get around them.  I probably have the unpopular opinion here, but I think it’s lame they are going to ban them in conflict zones also.

Another thing to consider: How are they going to enforce this?  Sure there are obvious cases of cart blocking that people could report, but what if someone just happens to be on a cart near a bridge and someone reports them for being there, even though they aren’t blocking anyone?  If they can’t program this game to modify hitboxes in these situations, or even deal with teleporting bots, then how can I expect them to accurately identify when someone is blocking a bridge?

Meh, I quit a long time ago so I shouldn’t even care.  I loved a lot about AA but the cash shop P2W and shady land grab tactics were what drove me and my friends away.  I miss sailing my galleon :(

Walah
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Walah

Robert80 Walah TrionCelestrata Lhumierre whoa…No it would be  a cat/dragon hybrid if it contained somethings that neither of them had on it’s own. 

The funny thing about sandbox games is that people act like all of them had the same thing. EVE and SWG are both sandbox games, but they don’t contain the exact same things.

AA gives players the ability to affect each other’s gameplay “outside of pvp and questing”, so how is it having sandbox elements an opinion?

AA also has the questing and trends of themepark games. 
First you said it doesn’t have “enough” sandbox, and now you say the existence of sandbox elements is an opinion. Which is it?

reptarthedinosaur
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reptarthedinosaur

TrionCelestrata reptarthedinosaur Thanks for the explanation :)

ManastuUtakata
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ManastuUtakata

Flamethekid ManastuUtakata thraay Sorenthaz 
So be it. However, the apologist “what ifs” will not persuade from my position. /shrug

Robert80
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Robert80

Walah Robert80 TrionCelestrata Lhumierre  Yes.  It has… a tiny bit of sandbox elements.
The idea of it as a sandbox is ridiculous (yes, my opinion.)  That’s like claiming that a cat is a dragon because it has claws and a tail.  There are a few items that match, but the rest of the beast is very different.  Or, example #2, that a game is free to play, because it has a free trial to some point, and you don’t really have to pay money unless you want to see anything beyond that.  *Basically, AA is just another WoW by that standard.  It has hotbars, and uses a tab target system.  AKA, it is silly to base the names off one or two tiny little points, rather than a fleshed out system.*
Of course, the same holds true in reverse.  It is an opinion that it is a sandbox.  As counter to mine.
*I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, but I do feel that sandbox and open PvP are not synonyms.  One is about how you interact with the world, and the other about how you interact with the players.*

Walah
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Walah

Robert80 TrionCelestrata Lhumierre That’s an opinion. The game has both sandbox and themepark elements.

Robert80
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Robert80

TrionCelestrata Lhumierre  Eh, it’s more a hybrid Open PvP/themepark.  There really aren’t enough sandbox elements to bother with.

Robert80
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Robert80

captainzor  You mean IF it was a sandbox.

Hanthos
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Hanthos

There’s a segment of the community that I think we can live without. Peace be with them as they leave… ;)

Flamethekid
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Flamethekid

ManastuUtakata thraay Sorenthaz thing is what content?

you run dungeons

kill world boss

do the story

hit max lvl

get a house

run trade route

after that then what?

Flamethekid
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Flamethekid

purewitz this wasn’t any pvp

this was a PVE issue

PVP issues are easy to solve since its involves the player 90% of the time

PVE is all up to the Devs

Flamethekid
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Flamethekid

Hravik Murphy’s mmo law

Flamethekid
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Flamethekid

Ekphrasis theeknighthood this was in a PVE zone

doesn’t matter what game pve or pvp there will always be some Ass that will be out to ruin your day that’s like the entire basis of any North American gaming community

FBS
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FBS

TrionCelestrata Dystopia agemyth happens when you are not the one who creates the engine for your game

FBS
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FBS

if (in_safe_zone()) then

    carts.hitbox.size=0;    

endif

Nailed it

RogerChristie1
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RogerChristie1

JimGriffiths TrionCelestrata reptarthedinosaur IE, you risk alienating and losing the asshole part of the community.

Vikaernes
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Vikaernes

TrionCelestrata Dystopia agemyth Not to mention, I can only imagine the mass carnage that would occur when trying to turn in your packs, and you had 40 other carts stacked on top of yours with no collision.

TrionCelestrata
Guest
TrionCelestrata

JimGriffiths Passeeo TrionCelestrata reptarthedinosaur And by the by, the staff has made game changes to help fix blockades in the past. If you’ve ever wondered why sometimes there are multiple random bridges in an area to help you cross a river, that’s why. It’s literally a change XL made in all versions of the game to help stop blockades in our region.

TrionCelestrata
Guest
TrionCelestrata

Passeeo JimGriffiths TrionCelestrata reptarthedinosaur Indeed. Like, anyone with land in Gweonid (the most notorious location) couldn’t get out. For days.
You brought up walking it on foot — Gweonid doesn’t suppor that too well either. And, for foot traffic, people would come up with these bizarre combinations of ships and vehicles to stop that too. Some of these blockades were pretty amazing in how they were constructed.

JimGriffiths
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JimGriffiths

Passeeo JimGriffiths TrionCelestrata reptarthedinosaur Bring friends and walk out on foot most villages have more then one way out.

JimGriffiths
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JimGriffiths

syberghost JimGriffiths TrionCelestrata reptarthedinosaur You can still play the game. You can drop your pack off at your farm/garden and go questing, fishing or pvp.  So saying you have to stop playing is a misconception.

Darthbawl
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Darthbawl

Well DRAT.  So much for the “Bridge blocking is emergent gameplay” t-shirt idea. *cry* :D

Passeeo
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Passeeo

JimGriffiths TrionCelestrata reptarthedinosaur
What if the blockade is at the start of your run you can’t turn the packs in there. What if you don’t have any land in that zone and the blockades remain for days (which sometimes they did) and you are forced to lose your packs which you have spent your labor(the lifeblood of making any gold in this game). 
They already lost a large part of the community for allowing this in the first place. Having this continue is only going to stop people new to this game sticking around. 
This truly is an ignorant attempt at offering a solution.

syberghost
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syberghost

JimGriffiths TrionCelestrata reptarthedinosaur “just don’t play the game until they go away” isn’t a very good option to tell your players if one of your goals is “keep paying the employees to maintain the game.” :)

captainzor
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captainzor

If this was the game it should be you just blow the bridge and take that schmuck with it.. and then build a new one!

JimGriffiths
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JimGriffiths

TrionCelestrata reptarthedinosaur They have options in safe zones as well. They could always turn around and go back until the way is clear or take the pack to an alternate vendor.

qualsiasi
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qualsiasi

these blockades looks like hisec gate/station campers in EVE, i never understood how it should be allowed. If i was the NPC corp owning the gates i would impose the weapons to be forcefully deactivated within a certain range to avoid damaging my business and my facilities…  the decision of the devs to allowing it, if not endorsing it by turning their eyes away, makes just no sense to me.

TrionCelestrata
Guest
TrionCelestrata

Lhumierre The game is a hybrid sandbox/theme park. (Some like to call it a sandpark. Jef’s used the term.) In the initial zones, PvP is completely disabled between same faction players. And, if a “red” or enemy faction player comes in, they can’t attack you unless you attack them first. It keeps newer players safe, so 55s can’t camp the poor level 10.

At level 30, the game begins to open you up and guide you into conflict and war zones. These are the zones that you’re thinking of where PvP is open between factions (as long as you don’t do it around a Neutral Alliance guard) and you can choose to attack members of your own faction and gain crime points.

Lhumierre
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Lhumierre

Wasn’t ArchAge pure PVP or something? Why is there safe zones?

schmidtcapela
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schmidtcapela

syberghost schmidtcapela Damonvile ashfyn 
To be fair, there is a place for FFA PvP sandboxes, but such a game needs to take into account how much of the potential player base will be driven away by the PvP, and have a properly adjusted budget for that.

TrionCelestrata
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TrionCelestrata

Quincha It’s actually less about finance and more about response and being even across the board. We tossed that specific idea around internally, and we were interested in doing it. However, issuing bans and punishments that way could sometimes lead to us not reaching the zone quickly enough before peace ended, or it could lead to people really cheating the rules. (Like perching their blockade on the very edge of the conflict zone, where they could just hop back into peace without a thought.)

The best solution to this would be changing the way collisions are handed in-game, which is something we’ve started a conversation for with XL.

Vunak
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Vunak

Blockades wouldn’t be bad if you could actually do something to counter them. But some schmuck sitting sideways on a bridge…. yeah that isn’t something you can do anything about currently.
So this was a good change, at least until the physics are fixed on carts if they ever will be fixed.

TrionCelestrata
Guest
TrionCelestrata

Dystopia agemyth We have been looking into turning off collisions in safe zones, but the idea is easier to say than to do. ArcheAge’s collision physics are very intertwined, and it appears that the collision physics that the carts use are the same that other entities in the game use, such as the monsters. It’s possible to change, but it’s something that would take a larger-than-usual amount of development time to fix up.

TrionCelestrata
Guest
TrionCelestrata

syberghost ManastuUtakata JimGriffiths Actually, it’s worse. In these zones, you cannot choose PvP as an option. That’s the problem. If they could choose to PvP, they could potentially free themselves. In the zones where blockades were the worst, it was where players could not PvP, not even through Bloodlust.

syberghost
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syberghost

schmidtcapela Damonvile ashfyn every time a game proposes to do this, the players say “don’t do this because it’s bad”, and either they end up backing down (because it’s not “amateur game design” to say “I don’t like this and will not play your game if you do this), or they hurt their game and wind up backing down AFTER the damage is done. Or, you know, just dying like Wizardry.

Every MMO shop has to make this mistake once; you just hope they survive it. This has only really worked out once, and that game has ALL the people who think this is a good idea. And is slowly declining itself.

TrionCelestrata
Guest
TrionCelestrata

reptarthedinosaur What Passeeo has said is accurate. The problem itself does not lie in blockades in PvP zones. In those situations, those who are blockaded have options available to them — namely attacking the enemy through PvP or Bloodlust (attack same faction) mode. In those situations, you could theoretically defend your trade packs or you could have them stolen by a cutpurse. That’s something we don’t have a problem with, and that’s awesome for a sandbox game.
What we did have a problem with were people creating blockades in safe zones. They could sit there, pile up carts in specific areas, and then never move. It would cut off access to the area to anyone attempting to run a cart, and they weren’t doing it to extort money or receive a gain. They were doing it simply to block access for days on end. At some points, it got bad enough where users were tipping siege towers and using larger vehicles to stop anyone who tried to get through. They would even create blockades that were made to stop one of the tools of escape available to trade pack runners (Rider’s Escape), making the skill effectively useless. Players would also plant series of avocados on or by the road to limit movement further, as the plant could also block vehicles.

That’s the behavior that wasn’t fun. In those situations, players could not choose PvP because it was a non-PvP area, they could not push past, and they could not even use the one skill that’s in the game to free them like something like that.

We’ve engaged XL on this issue, and they are aware of what NA/EU players have done. The hope would be to one day change the game mechanics in safe zones to allow players to pass through vehicles, or something of that nature, but that is something much easier said than done due to the way ArcheAge handles collision physics.

I hope that explains the situation a bit!

schmidtcapela
Guest
schmidtcapela

sray155 Dystopiq 
There is often some kind of “PvP versus PvE” thread in MMO forums, and this “argument” is aired quite often.

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