Massively OP Podcast Episode 47: The sky's the limit!

You can't take the skies from these podcasters! Today's show will see Bree and Justin plowing through the big MMO news of the past week, including the welcome addition of gliding in Tyria, an unfortunate producer's letter, and a name reservation controversy.

It’s the Massively OP Podcast, an action-packed hour of news, tales, opinions, and gamer emails! And remember, if you’d like to send in your own letter to the show, use the “Tips” button in the top-right corner of the site to do so.

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20 Comments on "Massively OP Podcast Episode 47: The sky's the limit!"

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swingline2008
Guest
swingline2008

I was going to make a post in similar fashion. I wasn't sure the time frame of when things were announced and when you made the podcast.
Btw, I love what y'all do. But the beginning of this episode was really hard for me to listen to. The information seemed to be not all there.
As stated in the comment above. Things like no fly zone will be implemented.
In the podcast you were saying you didn't know how jumping puzzles will work in regards to gliding. Also, it keeps being brought up about the expansion. But some of the mentioned stuff isn't through the expansion but updates.
This winter update will happen on, Jan 26th.
Also to note, Elder Scrolls Online will be not adding the Justice system to PvP which has jaded some of the community.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Again, I love listening to y'all but it put doubt in my mind from the beginning. In the back of my mind I kept asking myself, "what else might not be quite accurate if the rest of the info wasn't completely accurate at the beginning."
That's just how my brain works.

milosanx
Guest
milosanx

Omedon One of the reason I stopped playing Wurm Unlimited (which has player run servers) was that fact if the uncertainty of player run servers. I love the idea and I think for players that like to mod the code it's great, but as for gameplay that follow the original games mechanic I went back to Wurm Online where the servers are all run by the game company.
If you own the server no problems, but relying on others to keep it going scares me. In the end Wurm Online was always the one for me, but I did dabble in Wurm Unlimited.
Don't get me wrong there are some nicely populated WU server out there and the dedication hardcore players have for the game I think they are pretty safe.

Btw, it's best not the mention sandbox on the site. People think that sandbox means "go do what you want" opposed to "how much the game world allows you to do".

Neo_Wolf
Guest
Neo_Wolf

Syppi Neo_Wolf LOL. Why would you need to be stood still?  That is only one kind of roleplay and not the only kind.  Despite many jokes to the contrary roleplay in MMO's doesn;t have to consist of just standing around in bars making up narratives and emoting.

I think an article written from the perspective of a non roleplayer experiencing it and trying to make sense of it for the first time, exploring the merits and pitfalls would make for an interesting read personally and may dispel some of the common myths.

Take a step into a much bigger universe it might just broaden your horizons ;) consider it a challenge.. how can you possibly refuse lol

Syppi
Guest
Syppi

Neo_Wolf I will tell you exactly what would happen. I would last for about two minutes before jumping up and down impatiently and demanding to kill something. Standing still in-game and acting out things makes me think red thoughts.

hugmonster
Guest
hugmonster

Hey, that's my favorite Heart of Thorns song in the intro! :D

Kanbe
Guest
Kanbe

I need to stop listening to these early. I typically have a comment but by the time the post is up i've forgotten ; D

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

Quincha Yeah, I read her, I edit her pieces - that's what I based what I said on! We don't really know when or what the expansion will entail though. :D

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

Greaterdivinity Yeah, Blizzard is not my favorite lately, so I feel a little guilty playing D3, but that money is long spent anyway. :P

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

Omedon I think I pulled your letter out of the *middle* of the mailbag. It's so deep! But I knew it would be relevant because of Smed's new game. :D
I think I get you because I feel the same way about this style of game. I love that the freedom of these server-based games exist, but I've been playing them, playing mods, playing emus for so long that it's not novel to me, and I've seen them go reaaalllly wrong when the wrong kind of people are in charge. I kinda like MMOs, though. Like I said... I like the idea of lots of people I don't know flowing all around me, even if I don't want to leap into that flow 24-7. Smaller than that and it's a tabletop game with graphics, which is another style of game entirely.

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

Winterskorn THANK YOU. I couldn't remember which one, but yes! It's her. I think I read it on Reddit. :D

Neo_Wolf
Guest
Neo_Wolf

Why so many MMO's don't go with the Non unique First Name, Unique Surname format, which would solve ALL their problems, one can only wonder...

I think we need to have Justin do some MMO roleplay as someone who doesn't in order to have him write about his experiences. :)

Winterskorn
Guest
Winterskorn

Was listening last night and Bree the producer that is currently stranded in Canada is Emily aka Pentapod, she is the associate producer for EQN.  It turns out the US didn't like the Visa she's been filling out for the past 7yrs and decided to revoke it and make her apply for a new one.  Though based on her twitter feed she seems to have been assisting the EQ 1 & 2 teams with stuff for the past bit.  Anyways wanted to let you know as you couldn't remember :D

Enikuo
Guest
Enikuo

As stupid as I think it is for players to pick names like "Legolas," isn't even more stupid for a GM to do it? I don't understand why we're making fun of the players and not making fun of the GMs. GMs are paid to represent a game with its own IP and lore. Why are they reserving stuff like "Naruto" or "Sephiroth?" 
The real problem with the last top-ten list was that Justin failed to miraculously uncover another Zentia or some other hidden gem I've somehow overlooked. *Sigh*

Oh man, my timing in Tera has been interesting. I just started really playing it. I've been enjoying my OP gunner because I'm pretty terrible at the combat and can finally play it now. And, everyone else is ticked off, partly because of OP classes like my gunner. So uh, yeah.

LotRO and Trove are my main game atm. And, I thought I had gotten through the data move okay in LotRO, but my character started getting randomly stuck. After the 4th time restarting the game, I gave up and logged into Trove....which is down for the next 2 days! Good thing I have Tera, well, at least until the other players notice me and run me out of their game.

Also, becuase this just came up in the comments for the Trove downtime, it was Wakfu that had to do the rollback - they did a 4-month rollback of the EU servers. http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/19/wakfu-rolls-back-eu-server-to-june/

BalsBigBrother also pointed out that there was the Korean game that was accidently deleted: 

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/15/hangame-mmo-accidentally-deleted-shut-down-forever/

Enikuo
Guest
Enikuo

Omedon Enikuo It might not be too far off for you, but I think you might be defining the term sandbox too narrowly for other players, like me. So, while I do very much want more sandboxes, sandparks, and sandbox features in MMOs, I don't think that we see eye-to-eye on what that actually means.

Omedon
Guest
Omedon

Enikuo Omedon I think the thing that makes a true sandbox is "mattering to the world," and a DMed volunteer world can do this well, and a hyper developed "automatically think of everything" game will do it well, there's very little in the middle that works, IMO.  So while I can see where my terminology might be a bit off, I don't think it's TOO far off.

Siphaed
Guest
Siphaed

Omedon 
I'll simplify an answer in experiences in a few games.
Was on a RUST PvE server......admins/volunteers abandoned it, save for 1 person that logged in about once a week (usually not a weekend.  Most moved on to DayZ or the next survival horror game.

Was on a 7D2D PVE server..... community abandoned it, save for one lonely person who was the host of said server.  Poor guy.  H1Z1 took a bunch of players away.

Point?  I don't know if I had one. .... oh, I guess people are finicky and move on to the next big thing? Expect the same with these other games.  this is especially more so true on the games that are STILL IN AN ALPHA/BETA PHASE, while allowing players to host servers.  Because then they have to wipe said servers and all progress goes out the door. And after so many wipes, now people are like "why bother any more"....not just player people, but actual server hosts too.   Giving players access to games this early in development comes with that bad taste in the mouth of wipes and not wanting to bother with the game up until it does launch, if it at all ever does.

Enikuo
Guest
Enikuo

Omedon I thought your question was pretty unclear because it sounded like you were conflating the desire for sandbox features with volunteer-run servers. I don't think those things necessarily go hand-in-hand. 
Archeage is more of a sandpark, but I think a lot of the players you are talking about would be satisfied with a sandpark. It's professionally run with great graphics. If not for its monitization, it would probably be way more popular.
For more pure sandboxes, like Minecraft, there are professionally run services where you just pick out the options that you want implemented on your server and the service handles it. You don't have to worry about downtime in those cases. And, consider Minecraft's graphics and popularity. I don't think that graphics are a deal breaker for a lot of people. 
Also consider games like Ark and GTA5 - they're not really MMORPGs because they can't hold as many players, but they're getting attention for those sandbox-type gameplay. The graphics for both games are great and both games have official servers. 
It seems like your assumptions are maybe out of date, or maybe not in line with what people are actually asking for? I don't think we have to necessarily settle for bad graphics or volunteers to get a good sandbox or sandpark.

Omedon
Guest
Omedon

I really didn't think I was so unclear with my question haha.  Here let me break down what I was asking about, SO LONG AGO (man I had no idea how long the pipeline was on the mailbag!)
I was, indeed, involved in NWN, I was the head honcho of my own server, had a "plot team," like a LARP (that's generally how we ran it, lots of parallels to the volunteer structure that made all our LARP clubs happen), but I was where "the buck" stopped both creatively and logistically, and that was exactly where I was coming from with my question.  One of the reasons I stopped running my server was because WoW came out, and I looked at WoW, and I looked at the work involved in ALL THE THINGS you cited correctly in running a NWN server (balancing and re-balancing my core dragon bosses to be properly "fair" fights was a big time investment).  I looked at that workload, and I looked at WoW: complete, accessible and run by pros, and I said "I can't compete with that," and, being a volunteer, seeing people slowly, understandably migrate to WoW, I closed the doors on our server that, on a good day, had 6-7 people on it.  In WoW, that group stuck together, our core community didn't change much, we didn't really have a communal use for the other many thousands of people, but I didn't have to DM and/or deal with the logistics anymore, that was someone else's job, and they did it better than I ever could, because they were paid.

Fast forward to now, and that's the norm.  Now, however, we have games either here or arriving like WURM and Shards online, games where the game servers are, in their vision,  only as "good" as the VOLUNTEERS running them, competing with the WoWs and the FFXIVs and the SWTORs and D3s for peoples' time... And that's where my question comes in...

Yes, I can say from personal experience that the codependent, interaction-based "neighborhood gameplay" that so many sandbox MMO people seem to want is possible, and highly augmented in private, volunteer, community-run server games.  A game like a Shards Online or a WURM online has a really good chance of making this happen, because someone accessible and ideally agile (I could upload a minor, but sweeping change to my server with about 15 minutes of downtime after 15 minutes of "oh hey, good idea, I should change that") is there doing it... 

Or they're at work.  Or they're eating dinner.  Or they're at their kid's performance art didgeridoo recital.

Point is, they're volunteers.  Volunteers running super sandboxy, agile and alive worlds with toolsets to give them the power to do so... but volunteers.  You can't claim entitlement to a volunteer's time.... And so the volunteer world has a harder time asking for players in a world where... "online world' on its own isn't necessarily novel enough to hold anyone's attention.  Volunteers also don't have to tolerate playing with anyone they don't want to, they have every right to be "healthily cliquey" because no one's being paid to tolerate less savoury players.  You get along to get get along, or you got banned, and no one has any right to be on the server.

What let NWN work its magic was we were still in the age of "WHOOAAA! ONLINE GAMING! OTHER PEOPLE," and we are decidedly not there any more...  That's the norm.  It's big business, and we all know that, and know our options.
But the idea that made NWN work is still sound for those who wish to suspend their... I don't know... consumer awareness of their options, and play these neighborhood worlds.  There are entire games hoping that enough people are willing to do that.
My question was basically: are these studios insane, or is there a market?
I believe when I asked this in the comments, Jef Reahard said he was one of the people that would be part of the audience for this, one of the people willing to forego all of the pro AAA bells and whistles to have that neighborhood experience.  I don't believe anyone else did.
 Heck, I don't even know if I'd call MYSELF someone who'd tolerate a volunteer-run game any more (unless I was running it, and there we go again with another angle... if everyone's empowered to run their own server, why am *I* playing on *your* world?), but if a reasonable toolset came along, I'd potentially build something if I had enough interest.  The thing is... it's 2016, I'm not sure I can assemble a reasonable number of people to "play this graphically inferior, volunteer-run world and accept all its failings instead of playing WoW!"  There are a lot of would-be world admins over at the Shards online community (not meaning the devs) pretty convinced they'll pull it off and maybe even make money... I think those people are insane, personally.
Hope that makes my question make more sense, thanks for tackling it! :D

Greaterdivinity
Guest
Greaterdivinity

MJ, what a coincidence! I apparently drunk-bought D3 over the weekend, discovering the next day that I'd managed to purchase and install it while drunk so that it was ready for me when I was sober. Drunk me isn't a total jerk to myself!
I hate to say it (and to give Blizzard money), but I have to say I'm enjoying myself. It's a lot to figure out in terms of all the new systems (compared to D2), and the difficulty scaling is pretty wonky IMO, but I'm playing a crusader in the current season and slowly working towards getting myself some respectable gear and getting the season rewards. Thankfully I have some friends in IRC that have been able to answer my endless questions, which helped a ton.
Now to try to figure out how to split up my time between this, FFXIV, and B&S. And yes, I'm hoping for a D3 expansion, specifically because they need to add an Amazon so I can remake my Javazon from D2.
And Justin, FFXIV does the best job of any MMO I've played in terms of introducing/teaching new mechanics and systems to players and reinforcing them at pretty regular intervals. I just semi-recently got my first mount and got my white mage job so I've still got a ton to do. Also, RP is for losers : 3

McGuffn
Guest
McGuffn

the time table is next week!

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