How Star Wars: The Old Republic won me over with its endgame

I walked away from last week’s Star Wars: The Old Republic livestream pretty happy. Considering that I repeatedly say how much I absolutely loathe information presented as a video rather than just a nice solid block of text, that says something.

When I returned to SWTOR, it was after a two-year break from the game that followed reasonably close on the heels of Rise of the Hutt Cartel. I enjoyed that expansion, but what kind of dragged me to a halt with the game was my general disinterest about Star Wars combined with the fact that the endgame was the same unpleasant mire that wasn’t doing World of Warcraft any favors then or now. It’s important to note that when I left, the game had been my main go-to game for quite some time.

Now, of course, The Force Awakens managed to kindle a heretofore unprecedented affection for the franchise in me (a discussion of that would be outside of this particular article’s wheelhouse) and my wife and I couldn’t help but go back. And that brings me around to now, in the wake of a livestream where the prospect of new operations is basically met with a shrug and a guess. That earned some points.

I am not entirely talking from a position of ignorance.Let’s start by taking a step back to the old SWTOR endgame, or as I like to call it, an Endgame Heartbreaker. Because that’s really what it was, and that requires a bit of further elaboration.

In tabletop roleplaying, there’s a type of game known as a Fantasy Heartbreaker. It is, in short, a game that is trying very hard to be Dungeons & Dragons, usually with class/level systems and all of the generic fantasy tropes firmly in place. These games almost always have something cool tacked on, something to make them distinct and different… but they’re going to break your heart because they’re about as viable in the marketplace as a one-legged chihuahua in a dog race. No one is ever going to see the cool parts because if you want to play D&D, you play D&D.

We’ve had far too many Endgame Heartbreakers: MMOs whose unique and charming systems get buried underneath the eat-sleep-raid-repeat cadence that World of Warcraft has been steering straight into the ground. SWTOR definitely fell into that category. It had some marvelously story-heavy instances that, unfortunately, were best experienced by hammering the space bar as fast as possible so you could get back to the killing as a group. The individual stories were fun and diverse, but once they ended, you basically fell right back into the old habit of raiding to flesh things out.

I don’t need to tell you why that doesn’t work, do I? It’s the equivalent of competing with McDonald’s by opening a competing restaurant called MacDrummond’s with a purple-and-white color scheme, the same menu, slower service, higher prices, and only two stores open on alternating hours. You are competing against the market leader not by being smarter and faster but by doing the exact same thing that the market leader does with a different skin.

The game subsequently did flesh things out, and I thought (and still think) its handling of reputations is pretty good. But on a fundamental level, all of that remained a matter of killing time before the main events. The endgame content – the point of the game – was always to get into those Operations and get those bosses down, just as it was in dozens of other games.

Yet here we are in Knights of the Fallen Empire, and I find myself happy with the idiosyncratic way of handling the endgame. It’s not perfect – very few things are – but it really seems as if that core restructuring of the game goes beyond simply adding story chapters and calling it a day. There is an emphasis on the idea that people may not necessarily want to play in huge groups, and that’s a remarkable shift.

At the start of the piece, I mentioned that my wife and I returned to the game together. Stuff like the Star Fortress is basically made for us – semi-randomized content that’s more concerned with having people there working within their abilities than with having a specific setup of group members. The whole idea of a solo challenge mode getting added in the patch after the next one makes me very happy, especially when dealing with a game that’s historically been pretty good about providing an interesting solo experience.

For the people who really dig on big-group stuff, though… well, it’s all still there. Everything in the game is still in place and made newly relevant for higher-level players. So that’s not even a going concern, you can definitely get in there and get just as much out of the experience. More, even! And if you had already cleared every operation at the highest difficulty possible and want something new to do… hey, most of us have been there.

It's always a team of a few in the main stories, so this makes sense.

More to the point, I’m interested to see how this shift in philosophies works out in the longer term. What we have here is a game that’s really trying to refocus and redevelop itself, providing a different context for the game as a whole and a different set of design principles for players to enjoy. It’s a major shift in philosophy, and it’s something we haven’t seen much in other titles that followed the stock MMO plan for large-group endgame content.

If the game’s fortunes take a wild downturn, that’s going to make it pretty clear that this experiment didn’t work. But that’s how I see it: It’s an experiment, a turning away of the old model and a move to something that can be enjoyed by a larger percent of the population. And based on most of the response to the expansion, I’m hopeful about its prospects in the future.

I want to see what the next story chapter holds and how my choices impact the longer term gameplay once we’re over the initial hurdle. I want to see what new sorts of content come along. I want to see how well it handles the new setup with a very different endgame structure. I’m hopeful.

Do I think that solo players with a possible partner are a solid foundation for future content? I don’t know, but I’m interested in seeing how it shakes out. There are still incentives for being in larger groups rather than penalties, and you can enjoy quite a bit as a team with another player along for the ride, and it opens up the potential for interesting fights and content requiring the coordination of two people. I’ve greatly enjoyed running flashpoints with two people already, since there’s much less sense of “perform your role” and far more emphasis on working together as a team to do what needs to be done. And I think that further chapters, more content, and more content aimed at that size can indeed flesh out the game in the long run.

It’s something new, and I’m curious to see where it goes. But the team behind the game set the course, and they’re sticking with it. That’s why I was happy with the livestream – because it would have been so easy for the ultimate course to be “all right, here’s when we’re bringing out the big raid.” That’s not what we got. So I was pretty darn happy.

Everyone has opinions, and The Soapbox is how we indulge ours. Join the Massively OP writers as we take turns atop our very own soapbox to deliver unfettered editorials a bit outside our normal purviews (and not necessarily shared across the staff). Think we’re spot on — or out of our minds? Let us know in the comments!
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127 Comments on "How Star Wars: The Old Republic won me over with its endgame"

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Bladeknightz
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Bladeknightz

I find there is a lack of things to enjoy doing in this expansion only 1 Flashpoint came in this expansion no operations and the 1 flashpoint you can’t use group finder for. I took a leave from Swtor hoping for some new content not just chapters that you can have done in less than 1 hour. I would have preferred to have paid for  the expansion if the added more flashpoints and 1 or 2 operations with it

mysecretid
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mysecretid

dragonwhimsy 
Just talking with you here, not criticising, just so ya know …

Things being ‘too easy” may actually have more to do with the inescapable differences between classes in every online game. 
As I’m sure you already know, both flavors of Trooper in SWTOR can often steamroll difficult encounters fairly easily, while other classes — even geared well and played cleverly — will struggle with the battles and encounters because their class ability sets play out differently, and prove weak to certain situations.

For example, my main is a Gunslinger Smuggler, and most of the Gunslinger’s truly useful, and most effective, abilities are only available when the Gunslinger is crouched behind cover (i.e. stationary).
Problem is, many of the tougher boss enemies in the game use abilities which regularly knock the Gunslinger from cover, or else target him with brutal area-of-effect attacks — so the Gunslinger ends up spending much of those battles on the move, trying to find opportunities to actually use his best abilities for more than 5 seconds at a time..
Contrast this with my Vanguard Trooper, slt, who pretty much stands up to everything, and survives without much effort. Not only that, but the Vanguard Trooper tends to chew through enemies and situations much faster than the Gunslinger Smuggler.
As Miley Cyrus says, he’s a wrecking ball. :-)

The same content  that’s easy for the Trooper can be a lot harder for the Gunslinger — that sort of class difference may be the reason for some of what you’re seeing.
Cheers,

dragonwhimsy
Guest
dragonwhimsy

I totally agree with everything you posted Eliot. KotFE has gotten me to return to SWTOR as my secondary MMO, at least for now. My only real problem with it has been that the downscaling is too generous and companions feel too powerful, and so the game just feels too easy. Mostly I just think the story missions need to be a little tougher.

Woetoo
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Woetoo

vicariousfan Karl_Hungus 
From what I remember, the peak was 2 million retail sales at launch, which turned into 1.7 million subscribers.
There was an EA earnings report that if I recall correctly pointed out that subscriptions had dropped below 500k, but that profits were higher than that would indicate due to cartel market sales. That was pre-KotFE, at a reasonably low point, iirc.
My guess (based on rough server population indicators) would be a number higher than 500k, but not significantly so. Certainly not as low as 250k, unless a LOT of players are playing preferred status. An increase primarily due to the release of the film bringing in new players (who’ve got a LOT of good content to experience) and the expansion bringing in old players who (like the article author) haven’t played in a couple of years (who also have a lot of good content to experience). However those same rough server population indicators also point to a drop off of players since the most recent of two peaks (25th Oct and 29th Dec), where player numbers are heading back to pre-KotFE levels. Maybe the episodic content will keep things ticking along at current numbers – my guess is “not” though.

As to developer recruitment. There have been posts made that highlight a couple of both high and low level positions. But there have also been posts highlighting people who’ve clearly left the team too. Though if you’re closer to the company, you’ll know better than I (who just notice the occasional forum post on the subject).
My impression though remains a small team, getting smaller.
Hopefully now that the part of the team that spent their time reworking so much of the existing game content, mechanics and infrastructure to be relevant again at level 65 (and yes, whilst much maligned – I recognise it was a huge amount of work) – their efforts will mean more genuinely new stuff.

mysecretid
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mysecretid

SallyBowls1 Wild_Phil tobascodagama melissaheather 
Absolutely this. There has never been an authoritative source concerning this issue, much less an authoritative definition

vicariousfan
Guest
vicariousfan

Karl_Hungus vicariousfan that’s fine if you don’t believe me however I live in Austin and i’m making documentary movies about video games.  I have contacts. 

Even with out that there is nothing indicating that they aren’t making bank.  The earnings reports sure as hell haven’t said anything. 

Yeah I was gonna say if they had 2.5 million subs they would be doing much better.  What report said 250k though?  I don’t doubt you I was just wondering for my own reference.   Last one I remember was at 500k.  Is that the April 2015 one?    

Yeah no group content?  and?   Its clear they are shifting all their efforts into producing more single players story stuff like KOTFE.   That’s the point its been such a huge success for them.   Like HUGE success.   

Is it really that far of a stretch to see them shift to a primarly single player MMO?  I mean its not like SWTOR was ever a hard core raiding game or anything. 
haha i’m not trying to get the last word i’m just having a discussion.

Karl_Hungus
Guest
Karl_Hungus

vicariousfan Karl_Hungus 
Yeah, no. I won’t fall for that “I know someone at this or that studio so I’ve got inside scoop.” Sounds like bullshit that people say on the internet to reinforce their argument. But I did go back to the old reports from a year or so ago and they said around 250k, so I was right about 2.5, but obviously overshot the amount of zeros lol… EA did say the game was steadily growing from there though. This was back in April 2015. But that’s all besides the point.
Show me the “now hiring” signs (not the “we’re always taking applications” signs) and I might believe they’re actually bringing in new people. Considering they’ve said they have no plans on the table for new group content in 2016, if they are hiring new people, they’ll only be put to use in continuing this schism.

tutenkhamen
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tutenkhamen

Deuter 
I made a mistake, most had a single cutscene, usually before final boss, sometimes earlier (tfb kephess and cartel warlords). Even so. I’m all for considering why other people enjoy this game besides raiding. It’s just that most of these articles seem to be, “Oh I’m coming back from a huge break from before when I quit because I bored/hated it and now it’s awesome because raids are going away and solo content is the new thing”

If solo stuff is for him, great. Nothing against it really (except of course, stopping raids b/c of it). But he should have left out most of it where he states fairly matter of factly that Swtor sucked because it was too similar to wow raiding.

tutenkhamen
Guest
tutenkhamen

Deuter 
Star Fortress is a Flashpoint, plain and simple. It may have random layouts, but it is essentially the same thing, ie you’re not experience something new when you do a different flashpoint. This is not endgame, in anyone’s definition. He only brings it up because it’s the one thing that can allow him and his wife to play together.
He was HAPPY about there not being new ops. You raid, you know what ops are like. Compared to his version of endgame (Star Fortress), why would he be happy about that? Why would he be happy with LESS content? Can’t there be Couple’s Flashpoints AND raids? 
And I never said anything close to “He should like what you like, or GTFO!”. But it seems like he’s remarking on the entirety of the game without actually having played a good portion of it. Look at his quote, “It had some marvelously story-heavy instances that, unfortunately, were
best experienced by hammering the space bar as fast as possible so you
could get back to the killing as a group.” That describes a flashpoint, not a raid. Only what.. TFB, EC, and Revan had cutscenes in it? It’s an opinion sure, but it’s much less meaningful when he talks about content he hasn’t experienced.

vicariousfan
Guest
vicariousfan

Karl_Hungus vicariousfan that is true however again if they weren’t making money they sure as shit wouldn’t be developing new content of any kind.  Look how fast Warhammer Online went into maintenance mode. 

No there isn’t anything going on unusual at Bioware Austin I can verify that.   I have several contacts there and all signs point to hiring more developers after the success of KOTFE.

” If SWTOR had half as many subscribers, which is what they’ve indicated before, then logically they should still be able to field a decent sized team capable of developing multiple areas of the game at the same time. ”

wait what?  When did SWTOR say they had 2.5 milion subscribers.

Karl_Hungus
Guest
Karl_Hungus

vicariousfan Karl_Hungus 
That’s not true. They won’t shut it down unless they’re losing money on it, when the operating costs exceed the revenue it generates. I don’t think they’re just breaking even. It’s obvious the game is turning a profit, but how much of a profit remains to be seen when they can’t develop solo content and group content simultaneously, which indicates an internal issue either with the size of Bioware Austin’s team and/or available resources. 
Take WoW for example. It’s probably down to about 5 million subscribers right now, and yet it’s never had a bigger development team. If SWTOR had half as many subscribers, which is what they’ve indicated before, then logically they should still be able to field a decent sized team capable of developing multiple areas of the game at the same time. 
There is clearly something going on internally at Bioware Austin. Maybe it’s not the revenue SWTOR generates. Maybe it is. Maybe they have a disorganized team. Maybe their team is too small. Maybe they don’t have intuitive development tools in place so new people can come in and get to work with little training. With all the problems SWTOR has had under the proverbial hood, that could be an issue. Maybe it’s a combination of any of these maybe’s. Whatever the case may be, having to make a hard choice between solo and group content in an MMO is alarming.

Deuter
Guest
Deuter

Qarran If someone is new to the game, or just returning, it is a fantastic time to play SWTOR. SO much endgame content for them. For those that love this game and have been here since the beginning, it can be a little worrisome. Let’s hope for more content to come (though the lack of any information about new Operations is a bit distressing to veterans of the raiding community).

Deuter
Guest
Deuter

tutenkhamen Yeah, seriously. Who is this guy thinking he can write about the things that he enjoys! What gives, man! He should like what you like, or GTFO! On a side note, I am from the side that thinks that SWTOR is risking its long-term endgame players who enjoy the Operations and PvP (group content), but I understand that many love SWTOR for its story and single-player aspects (the direction that Bioware seems inclined to head). Allow thew author to express their personal opinion, despite the fact that it varies from yours.

ArbsX
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ArbsX

Midgetsnowman Honestly I’m the opposite I have no interest in solo play. But if others like it, that is fine.

tutenkhamen
Guest
tutenkhamen

You can’t honestly consider Star Fortress as endgame. It’s the same thing! Yeah “random” maps, but same style, enemies, bosses, loot, etc… So, what… you like this game suddenly because it has stuff you and your wife can do? And somehow that compels you to write an article about the entire game? A game that you took a HUGE break from and so missed half the content in the game? 

LOL.

Woetoo
Guest
Woetoo

Having read your article now 3 times, I’m still a little in the dark about what it is about the current endgame that “won me over”.

I can see you’re a returning player: Returning after a 2 year break, playing as a couple, drawn back in due to the film.
You then lay out why you think SWTOR followed the path of many MMO’s, by being a poor copy of WoW and why that’s a bad idea.
You then talk about the shift away from large group content (operations).
You like Star Fortress, because it supports small, even solo groups – that suits your play style, especially when playing with your wife.
You like the “idea” of the solo play being added as part of the Eternal Championship – as further reinforcing the reason you like Star Fortress.
You even mention in passing, that the big group content is still out there for the higher-level players. And whilst people may already have done that content and may want something new – well, “most of us have been there”.
Finally, the change in philosophy away from the WoW clone to something that has a more solo experience endgame (I presume) that has you interested and hopeful for the future of the game.

Here’s my thing though. Most of the article is looking back or looking forward. Your interest and hope seems firmly based in the promises of what you think the future content will be like.

I absolutely can see why playing through the new content that’s been added since RotHC (Galactic Starfighter, the additions of Strongholds, the addition of Oricon, the Revan Expansion and the Fallen Emperor expansion) would be engaging, entertaining, fun, time consuming and lots of other positives.

What I’m wondering though is just how long it is since you finished the Fallen Emperor expansion storyline? How many hours/weeks have you actually spent doing “endgame” as it currently exists? How many times have you done Star Fortress? Did the companion alliance system grab you? Did you enjoy the nostalgia of playing rebalanced operations (if you played them at all?) or did your enjoyment come from playing the additional operations and/or flashpoints that were added after RotHC?
Which brings me back to my original thought: Are you perhaps mixing up the enjoyment of catching up 2 years worth of content and the promises of future content with the reality of current endgame content right now? And if not, then what is it about the current endgame that “won” you over?
I’m not even clear what your expectations of endgame are. Perhaps my expectation of something I could immerse myself into a couple of nights per week for months upon end, isn’t in keeping with the new experimental philosophy you are seeing such hope in.

Sorry, I’m not knocking your enjoyment. If you’ve had fun, then good. It’s not for me to say what you should find fun or not. I’m just a little concerned you’ve written an article about endgame and not really been immersed in it enough to judge. A hope for future smaller group content… sure. A love of story content experienced as 2 year catchup… sure. The opportunities for an operations raider returning after a long break… sure. But months upon months of repeating Star Fortress or repeating recycled group content… nope.

captainzor
Guest
captainzor

camelotcrusade IMO, hard mode flashpoints are not worth the time and potential frustration if you’re not going with a full pre-made group.  There is too much room to get an undergeared and/or underlevel player queued up as the wrong role on one of the tougher flashpoints (manaan, korriban, tython, etc) after sitting in GF for ~hour.  Then you go in and faceplant a few times before your (likely) ambivalent group mate, who refuses to admit any fault while not listening or wanting to accept or grasp any fight mechanics, finally leaves or gets kicked.  Meanwhile, ~2 hours have gone by and you realize you could have gotten in to a story mode Operation pug and gotten (potentially) 3-4 times the 216-rating loot (and comms!) than you would have even had a chance at getting from the flash point.

vicariousfan
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vicariousfan

Karl_Hungus if it wasn’t generating as much revenue EA would shut it down in typical EA fashion.

Lord Zorvan
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Lord Zorvan

As a non-raider, for me SWToR and TESO share common ground. They’re both singleplayer games with online DRM.

spoilofthelamb
Guest
spoilofthelamb

Wild_Phil tobascodagama melissaheather As a roleplayer on Jung ma….When I’m logged off, RP doesn’t stop. For me, I feel SWTOR has been much more of an MMORPG by your definition than GW2/WoW/any other AAA title on the market has been for me.

In my opinion, though, the idea of MMORPG is a persistent online world with other players and some form of character or story progression, either through continuous official development support or fan-created in-game stories/events.

In my mind, Battlefront fails to be an MMORPG, as it doesn’t have a persistent world and both character progression and development support already had definitive ends at launch. Further, there’s virtually no systems in place for RP (4 expansions, then no new content ever. A fully unlocked character has completed the game.). AOEO succeeded as an MMORPG, despite being an MMO-RTS, as there was civilization (character) progression, role-play, a persistent world, and continuous support until the end. When you finish a game in DOTA II, the map is wiped and progress is lost, without a persistent world, making it an MMO but not an MMORPG under my definition. When you play Mass Effect III, there is character progression, but no persistent world – so not an MMORPG. Crowfall’s concept wipes the world, but keeps a persistent instance where characters are affected by their victories or defeats in temporary campaign, thus fitting the MMORPG mold for me.

It’s all labels, really. When I think MMORPG, I envision persistence, multi-player, continuous character/story development (either official content or fan-created), and the possibility of role-play.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

Wild_Phil tobascodagama melissaheather  I absolutely, positively, without question do not think it has a very specific meaning. Lots of people have lots of definitions, and for some they are evolving over time.  There is nothing authoritative like Oxford English Dictionary or Merriam-Webster for this. The big company’s’ definition is more about their commercial interests.  And with lots of people with lots of definitions, I see no reason to take one person over another. And I certainly have never heard of techopedia.

Karl_Hungus
Guest
Karl_Hungus

What I find disappointing is not so much this new experiment in the game’s direction, but rather that SWTOR’s team seems so small and limited in resources that it can only work on one aspect of the game at a time while forsaking everything else. Perhaps the game isn’t generating as much revenue as we were lead to believe.

ManastuUtakata
Guest
ManastuUtakata

Wild_Phil melissaheather 
You are pulling a No True Scotsman. As well as forgetting the way Bioware (The same company behind the highly successful single player RPG franchises of Dragon Age and Mass Effect) try to convert the MMO of SWTOR into the most RPG thing going this side of the Milky Way…with it’s player decision emphasized cut scenes, for example. You are either in denial that Bioware could make an RPG game into MMO satisfactory. Or simply refuse to recognize the RPG components in the game. Which is being just plain silly, IMO. Either way, the evidence does not support your assertion.

StClair
Guest
StClair

AldosAC Back in the day, I was quite pleased at how many ways City of Heroes
bucked then-current trends – including having no endgame to speak of. 
(Go roll up another alt!)  The one raid present at launch was kind of
wobbly, and subject to having winning strats patched out every few
months; the devs later admitted they didn’t really HAVE a plan for how
it “should” be done, and just dropping the nerf hammer until the players
came up with a way to complete it that they liked. :/  When they
finally put in “proper” raids, many years later, the experience they’d
gotten paid off, and they were actually fun, even for players like me (and, I’m guessing, you).

StClair
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StClair

SallyBowls1 camelotcrusade Morningrise That’s… really a case of “would you rather be shot or stabbed”, innit?

StClair
Guest
StClair

Jadefox I’m a recent come-back, after a hiatus of some years, and even though the skill changes took some getting used to, I’m finally finally finishing class stories and taking my characters into the FE content.  I’m sorry it sucks for those who’ve been there all along.

StClair
Guest
StClair

AldosAC Wild_Phil BraxKedren The idea is that it’s set thousands of years earlier, and so, even in the fairly timeless Galaxy Far Far Away(tm), stuff tends to be a little cruder and clunkier than we’re used to from the few decades before and after the Battle of Yavin.

If anything, a common complaint among the Serious Lore Nerds is that it’s too similar, for no really good reason. For example, the Imperials all have British accents, because that’s what the casual fan expects… but it’s been “established” in the old (Legends) EU (which all of this is now) that that’s the “Coruscanti” accent, and if anyone should be talking like that, it’s the ‘pubbies.  Likewise, pretty much every set of trooper armor copies the look of either Stormtrooper or Mando armor, and the bad guy ships look like TIE fighters because, well, what else are they gonna look like?

It’s an awkward spot to be in, since as noted – and this thread demonstrates – most people just want to play something that looks exactly what they saw in the movies.

BryanCo
Guest
BryanCo

Wild_Phil Here’s a special comb to help you determine whether or not a game is an MMORPG.

Bluetouchpaper
Guest
Bluetouchpaper

The Force Awakens didn’t kindle or rekindle my interest in Star Wars it just made me feel like I had seen pretty much the same movie that I had seen 38 years earlier . I would love to see a movie based on the old republic before Death Stars were ever invented . 

Would be nice to see something new and original from the cinematic Star Wars and the Old Republic might be a good place to look .

Witches
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Witches

Jadefox The servers are more populated, so regardless of what people may be saying, the response seems to be positive.

Qarran
Guest
Qarran

Morningrise  And what is funny about that last comment is that they don’t quit. Lol.  It is quite amazing actually considering they have to pay 15 bucks a month to continue to post.

mysecretid
Guest
mysecretid

melissaheather camelotcrusade 
To be fair to your former guildies, SWTOR was pretty rough (in the beginning) compared to what it is now, at least. It took the game a fair bit of time to “find its footing”, and I admit there are times when I seriously wondered if it ever would.
Now, however, my friends and I are definitely having a blast playing, as well as anticipating every new story segment which arrives.

Cheers,

swingline2008
Guest
swingline2008

“Too much of back-and-forth traveling during regular questing (most of which is now optional but can still be annoying)” Good thing it’s now all optional and for awhile there it was very easy to just do the story.
And I’m intrigued how the PvP instances are “generic”.

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

Eliot_Lefebvre SallyBowls1  BTW, I was not trying to debate probabilities with you just saying that was a clever point that I had not considered, thank you and props.

Eliot_Lefebvre
Guest
Eliot_Lefebvre

SallyBowls1 I’m not saying I expect it, just that I suspect it. It would fit in nicely, and allow for a bit of player customization… especially to go along with what Larry has noted in the past as something of a cadence for the game. (Big Story/Content Expansion – System Expansion – Repeat. Our system expansion could be some ship-based expansion to Strongholds.)

vicariousfan
Guest
vicariousfan

Alex J actually here is a better comparison

vicariousfan
Guest
vicariousfan

Alex J i’m sure your 90s graphics comment was just hyperbole but i couldn’t help myself

SallyBowls1
Guest
SallyBowls1

Eliot_Lefebvre Neo_Wolf  Hmm, I wouldn’t expect that but you have a very good point.  The KotFE spring cleaning could fix those ships.  I remember devs talking about hating to do anything in a ship due to companions and cut scenes. Hope it happens.

sigmar1heldenhammer
Guest
sigmar1heldenhammer

Wild_Phil if u r a afn of the EU then u can appreciate the look and feel of

SallyBowls1
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SallyBowls1

camelotcrusade Morningrise  And as bad as reddit is, I prefer it to any official forum except perhaps LotRO.

RicharddeLeonIII
Guest
RicharddeLeonIII

Imho the business side of mmo’s can be important to fans. Particularly in providing info on whether it is worthwhile to continue to support or play a game. Even unconfirmed news/rumors should be given some weight when a person’s money is involved.
It should be in the consumer’s hands on whether they are willing to risk funds or not play a game or buy a product. Thats probably why a lot of people hate it when companies are so secretive even though its understandable why companies do damage control.
Personally im torn on the subject, i want info so i can decide on whether to spend money, but a business has a right to try to survive.

TrippinNinja
Guest
TrippinNinja

Qarran Glad to hear there is some new blood getting into or returning to the operation scene. It gives this grizzled vet some hope!

Qarran
Guest
Qarran

Hmm.  So… what should I say. Lol.  A solid article and not because it is a positive one.  Eliot described what many have been experiencing in this game for some time now.  The game is thriving amidst the selfinflicted and sometimes just player driven controversies.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again.  KoTFE has been great for grouping content and end-game.  It opened up more solo opportunities sure, but it also made grouping more accessible and plausible even for those who do not generally care for it.  Level sync and the bolster are working wonders for grouping in this game.

I see it every day, yes, every day as I do play quite a bit.  Our guildies are having a blast and some are new or returning to the game now.  Ops runs every night is the norm.  Quite a change from 6 months ago.  And PUGs are feasible now.  There has been some pain because newbies are just now learning the ins and outs, but generally, if veterans take the time to guide players through, they work out great.  Again, a much better scenario than in the past.

So, SWTOR just keeps on going.  IF they add more end-game content this year it will continue.

Lethality
Guest
Lethality

breetoplay Sure, and I understand that… I just feel I’d like it more if it stuck to the “game” (negative and positive) and not the periphery business, rumors and hearsay.

Wild_Phil
Guest
Wild_Phil

Morningrise Wild_Phil The term MMORPG was created in 1997 and was a combination of two abbreviations.  It’s a compound word where the meanings combine to form a third word. The meaning of the compound is different from the meanings of its components in isolation.
Hope that helps!

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

Lethality I appreciate the compliment. But do remember that we are not a fan site with a one-sided, purely positive view on games. We cover the good and the bad of MMORPGs.

Neo_Wolf
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Neo_Wolf

TheDonDude Neo_Wolf Jadefox any planet you go on has the same map, the same mob types.. its no different.  Same with any MMO every zone has a fixed map, fixed mob types, fixed loot table, the same quests..

It just isn’t possible to create a game that has entirely new content every single time on that kind of scale.

It doe’s however provide randomized side objectives and sub bosses, and achievements to work towards.

something has to be better than nothing, right?  As I said before it’s a foot in the right direction. ;)

Wild_Phil
Guest
Wild_Phil

tobascodagama Wild_Phil melissaheather “A massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a video
game that takes place in a persistent state world (PSW) with thousands,
or even millions, of players developing their characters in a
role-playing environment. The virtual world in which the game takes
place is never static. Even when a player is logged off, events are
occurring across the world that may impact the player when he or she
logs in again.”
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/1919/massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game-mmorpg
MMORPG has a specific definition and which is more complex than just combining ‘MMO’ with ‘RPG’.

Alex J
Guest
Alex J

I guess it’s nice that some people still enjoy this game… Personally I could not “finish” even the single playthrough on any of the characters, ever since the game was released. Too much of back-and-forth traveling during regular questing (most of which is now optional but can still be annoying), pretty “generic” PvP instances plus the extremely poor graphics/animations always caused me to become fed up with the game and quit playing it after a very short amount of time (longest I played was a couple of months back when the game just came out). 

And yes, I know the Bioware intentionally went with graphical style/fidelity similar to original KOTOR (which was one of my favorite RPG games back in 2003) but after playing many current/modern RPG and MMORPG games with much more aesthetically pleasing and “detailed” graphical fidelity/style I just can’t force myself to tolerate something which looks like it was released during the late 90’s for long periods of time anymore, even though I still greatly value the good storytelling in PvE-oriented games. Call me “shallow” or whatever, but that’s just how I am.

TheDonDude
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TheDonDude

Neo_Wolf Jadefox TheDonDude But even the ‘why’ is the same.  Star Fortress orbiting ____.  Same ‘why’ each time, same map type, same mob types.

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