SWTOR is putting lockboxes inside of other lockboxes

Star Wars: The Old Republic apparently couldn’t stand to see RIFT hogging the business model drama spotlight today and has issued a new proclamation about the “Grand Packs” currently for sale on the game’s Cartel Market cash shop.

After February’s patch 4.1, the packs will have a chance to drop a Grand Chance Cube in place of one of the usual ridable or decorative drops. BioWare writes,

“Now you are asking, what is the Grand Chance Cube? Think of it as the ultimate Grand Pack. Inside a Grand Chance Cube you have a chance to receive any available Cartel Market Pack item, including from the current Pack. Also, the Grand Chance Cube acts as a Grand Pack in that if you open an Armor Lootbox, it will contain the entire armor set, not just a few pieces.

This change allows us to place more emphasis on the Silver and Gold items in each pack, as we are no longer building new Bronze items. Now, in place of Bronze items you will receive a Grand Chance Cube. This Cube can contain the rarest of Cartel Market selections, giving you a second chance at highly-desired items.”

“Yo Dawg, we heard you like lockboxes in your lockboxes!” quipped one commenter. You might even call it… lockboxception.

There’s plenty of non-lockbox stuff coming in 4.1 as well, including changes to crafting and insta-gear.

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186 Comments on "SWTOR is putting lockboxes inside of other lockboxes"

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KorbenDallas
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KorbenDallas

SallyBowls1 BrotherMaynard http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7643836http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7643836http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7643836

annoyedbadger
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annoyedbadger

swingline2008 oh, my bad then, I may try it again after all.
I just dont like RNG bullshit when you have paid for something. I dont mind paying for stuff, I object to paying for an undisclosed chance of getting something…

blackcatcrosses
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blackcatcrosses

Bereman99 Never mind ‘additional’ key. None of the SWTOR boxes require ANY keys whatsoever, whether you get them in game or in shop.

wjowski
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wjowski

jeremy2020 wjowski 
 Games are a luxury, you forego luxuries all the time in the real world.

captainzor
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captainzor

This morning from Eric Musco:
Hey folks,
We have definitely seen a few consistent topics popping up in this thread and we want to make sure we get answers to those questions. Here they are:
How much will packs cost after these changes?
The price will remain the same as the previous pack at 200 Cartel Coins per pack. Even with the price being the same, it is worth noting that you have a higher chance to receive Gold and Silver items than there was previously.
Are Grand Chance Cubes replacing all Bronze items in packs?
Yes, any time you would have gotten a Bronze item in the past, you will now get a Grand Chance Cube in its place. 
Is it possible that I can get two Grand Chance Cubes in one pack (meaning no new items)?
Yes, this is possible. Just as with previous packs, it is possible to get two Bronze drops together, and in this case that means two Grand Chance Cubes. Keep in mind that you can get a new item from a Grand Chance Cube. It is even possible to get a full lootboxed version of one of the new Gold Armor Sets.
How does this change affect the drop rate on new pack items?
The Bronze category will be less common than it was in the past. This means that there is a higher drop rate for Silver and Gold items (which are new to the pack).
What are the drop rates for Bronze, Silver, and Gold items inside of the Grand Chance Cube?
Although we can’t go into details on specific drop rates, Silver and Gold items will be much more common in the Grand Chance Cube than they were in previous Bronze and Grand Packs.
Are Collection unlock prices going to be adjusted?
There are no plans to adjust Collection unlock prices at this time.
Are there or more less new items in the new pack, with the removal of Bronze items?
There are more Silver and Gold items than there were in previous packs, but less items overall with the removal of Bronze.
Thanks everyone.
-eric

captainzor
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captainzor

A Dad Supreme captainzor First of all, you need to relax.  Second, nothing that you said makes what I said any less true (and you even admitted that truth in your previous response.  I am talking about the added VALUE that they give us with the subscription (not the very real need to subscribe just to make the game acceptable in terms of full access to features and content, which is WHY I subscribe, thank you).  They are reducing that added value when they decrease the cartel coin grant spending power relative to how each individual uses it.  Just because you don’t spend it the same way I do doesn’t mean I’m wrong or my point is less valid.

Mysk Needs (More) Coffee, Probably
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Mysk Needs (More) Coffee, Probably

(._.) ~ ︵ ┻━┻

Jedi table flip says it all.

jeremy2020
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jeremy2020

wjowski jeremy2020 If someone enjoys the game otherwise, but disagrees with lockboxes…they should just stop playing the game altogether? Sure, that may be “right”, but it’s not realistic. 

You could walk away from the modern economy as well and live off the land too.

jeremy2020
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jeremy2020

Project54 jeremy2020 wjowski Someone had to originally pay for a lockbox to get the item. So even if the person who ends up with the item paid credits for it, it came from a lockbox.

Neo_Wolf
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Neo_Wolf

Most unfortunate part is that lockboxes as they originally had them were fine, then they tweaked them and made them worse, and again and made them worse still and now again..and that result is sketchy but as yet to be determined.

Ideally they should just stop messing with them and put them back how they were :)

Serrenity
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Serrenity

A Dad Supreme Serrenity  But … I don’t play Rift …

dragonwhimsy
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dragonwhimsy

Bannex19 It doesn’t matter. No western publisher is making AAA MMO’s right now. So if EA lost the liscense tomorrow there would be no Star Wars MMO to replace it.

Kass40
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Kass40

ZenDadaist Project54 Kass40 Completely agree with you. I looked elsewhere and found a fantastic alternative, and  I don’t care what folks think but absolutely loving ESO and the business model at mo.

Line with more hugs
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Line with more hugs

MorpayneRADIO
It’s already the case.
Hell, it’s arguably the number one source of profit in Asia, for both mobile and PC games, in all genres.

The gacha industry is immense, far larger than you can imagine. Just not as popular in the West.
F2P+random cosmetics/consummables/advantages already is the video game industry. 

And that’s not limited to small fries looking to get some whales, EA jumped straight into that model years ago, or just this month the Rick&Morty mobile game is just lockboxes. And it’s a damn Pokémon clone.

ZenDadaist
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ZenDadaist

Project54 Kass40 Continue to not buy lockboxes and instead to put your money into the business models you do aprove of? Eh drop in the ocean, I know, but what else is there to be done? It’s what I’m doing.

ZenDadaist
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ZenDadaist

I assume the comments are already filled with Lockbox-ception and putting a lockbox in your lockbox so you can RNG while you RNG memes? :p

Ah well. I just hope that there continue to be a few games out there that hold their nose at this pile of doodoo business model and don’t use them. Those are the games I’ll be migrating to.

Project54
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Project54

jeremy2020 wjowski

That’s not true, you have two ways to obtain the items in the lootboxes:

1. Pay real world money to play an RNG game with a very very low chance of the item you want.
2. Pay in game money to buy the exact item you want from the in game GTN.

I know which one is more palatable to me. I cannot fathom why so many people buy the lockboxes, but I’m glad they do, it allows me to carry on with option 2 and not having to spend real world money.

Project54
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Project54

Kass40

Nope, never bought a single lockbox, ever. Yet this behaviour by the gaming companies continues. I’m not sure what to do now.

Project54
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Project54

annoyedbadger

Also hate lockboxes, played SWTOR for years and never bought a single one. Anything you really want that is only available in a lockbox can be bought from the GTN for in game currency as it seems there are no shortage of people happy to buy the lockboxes. As obnoxious as lockboxes are, the SWTOR implementation is the most palatable.

What I’m getting at is it’s entirely possible to play the game as if the lockboxes don’t exist and I think it’s a shame to miss some great content just because of the knowledge that they do.

MrEllis
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MrEllis

Midgetsnowman rottenrotny They sell hotbars.

Karl_Hungus
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Karl_Hungus

A Dad Supreme Karl_Hungus Midgetsnowman 
To me, all lockboxes are crooked. I much prefer cash shops like ESO’s where you pick the thing you want and buy it outright. No draconian manipulation. No bullshit gambling. Just a straight up honest transaction. And all the other aspects of the game are still rewarding. You still get cool looking gear from playing the game at the highest levels. 
I used to applaud Rift’s cash shop because it was like that, until it slowly degraded into what we have now. SWTOR would follow the same path if they didn’t figure out that Star Wars fanboy whales don’t care about stats as much as they care about looking cool so SWTOR will probably never be P2W; it’s P2LookCool instead. 
My SW hate is not clouding me up. I’m subscribed to the game. I play it regularly. And yet I have always lambasted the game’s cash shop since its very inception. There is a right way to sell vanity items and a wrong way and EA went with the wrong way because there’s potential money in it and they can get away with it because gamers bitch but they never take their money off the table. 
Among my friends in the game, I am one of the few subscribers I know who doesn’t frequently buy Cartel Coins to spend on lockboxes. They’ll buy multitudes of hypercrates looking to get something rare and valuable only to have their inventory filled to the brim with worthless shit. Then they’ll rage about their disappointment until the next crate comes out and they’ll be right back to gamble away their money again because gambling is an addictive vice and EAware feels no shame in making its money that way.

Tamanous
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Tamanous

I’d like some RNG with my RNG please!

ShintarCommando
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ShintarCommando

xk_tweets jeremy2020 vicariousfan Nyres It doesn’t matter in most discussions, but it does matter in this one because talking about a “lockbox inside a lockbox” implies that you need to pay to unlock something twice. This is not the case here.

ShintarCommando
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ShintarCommando

MatthewYetter I guess “Box of random stuff now has a chance to contain even more random stuff” just wouldn’t have made a good headline.

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

rottenrotny if you actually think swtor has the worst cash shop eve,r you’ve never played even a single asian MMO

Janio2
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Janio2

camelotcrusade Estranged Also if there will only be silver and gold level gear set In these packs. Will that not downgrade silver gear to bronze level seeing the highest droprate of gear is always the most commen metal of medalion.  

Maybe the packs will drop more bronze mounts and decorations ?

Janio2
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Janio2

Estranged enamelizer Well said it a pack. A lockbox should have a lock on it. Other wish its a metal box on which a lock can be placed. Which I would say would useally be a pack :p.

Janio2
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Janio2

Karl_Hungus Midgetsnowman A Dad Supreme yes, alliance crates are the reputation sink at the moment in the gam,  but you do get some random gear from it. It is sade you cannot get it in original way as loot table reward.

Janio2
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Janio2

A Dad Supreme Karl_Hungus The problem with lockboxes is they do not have tokens inside.  Which you could uses buy items with. No you need realy grind days per week to get all credits to buy all the items in swtor.  It is just getting to much for a part of gamer population. I have like 7% of all the fluff unlocked and I played alot.  I am starting to dislike rarity of items methode of buyable open lockboxes.

A Dad Supreme
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A Dad Supreme

captainzor A Dad Supreme ” That makes my monthly grant less valuable when the option of a cheaper unlock of some future item I may add to collections disappears. ”
=====
Again, this is what I said. This makes YOUR monthly grant less valuable, not your subscription. You said subscription, not monthly grant.
My subscription is still valuable because I get the whole game and don’t have to piecemeal out spending money in the shop. A lot of people play the game for the story and never touch the shop. 
You know what I used my ‘worthless’ cartel coins on? Character transfers. I was able to transfer all 12 characters and change their names from one server to another for a pittance. If I had to spent REAL money for that, I’d be hurting.
So yeah, my sub and Cartel coins have value and not because I can’t buy a stupid hat.

A Dad Supreme
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A Dad Supreme

Karl_Hungus A Dad Supreme Midgetsnowman “. You shit on Trion for it but Biofail gets a free pass? Why? Because it’s Star Wars? Fuck that hypocritical double standard bullshit.”
=====
I’m guessing this is the metaphorical “you”, since I did no such thing. I have not problem with Trion selling non-statted gear/fluff/whatever in a cash shop. Any company for that matter. 
The problem I have with how you’re setting it up is as if it’s ‘essential’, as if someone needs to buy this shit from the cash shop. They don’t. They want a particular style that clearly says they have a CHANCE to get it. It was that way before the Grand Box in a Box, so I have no idea what you’re talking about Karl.
Seriously, your SW hate is clouding you up. Any company that sells cosmetic styles with a chance (did I mention that before?) to get a style and tells you that upfront that you could get this, this OR this but not THAT thing you want and you still chance it, that’s on you.

mysecretid
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mysecretid

Karl_Hungus A Dad Supreme Midgetsnowman 
Hey Karl,

While I’ve said before that I do enjoy playing SWTOR as a game, I don’t think you’re wrong in general to call out the Cartel Market as the least appealing element of that game — at least, in regards to the way it’s all been handled. It’s absolutely the one element of SWTOR which makes me the most uneasy.
I also agree that claiming that “SWTOR has no lockboxes” is disingenuous.

Whether it’s a free lockbox loot drop, added to most standard loot drop tables, in a game like Star Trek Online — where those who want to gamble must then purchase a key in the game store with real money (or a larger amount of in-game grind money to open the free box …

… or whether one buys Cartel Packs directly with money in the SWTOR game shop, and then opens the purchased packs for free, the difference between the two systems is only superficial, at best.

Both are effectively lockboxes for the purposes of this discussion.

And lockboxes within lockboxes now? Urgh. This seems like the “thin edge of the wedge” for an even less player-rewarding form of monetization. I really hope it doesn’t catch on enough to spawn imitators.

Cheers,

xk_tweets
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xk_tweets

Estranged xk_tweets joshua12jd The valid approach then, in my opinion, would be to allow people to buy these cubes directly. The way it’s structured, it is specifically there to decrease the likelihood of getting NEW items from a NEW pack.

I’m all for people like you having options. I’m not for older players getting screwed over in that pursuit. :)

xk_tweets
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xk_tweets

jeremy2020 vicariousfan Nyres ^^ This. I don’t know why people are harping on the idea that you don’t have to buy a key… you have to buy the PACK! Other than not having you inventory cluttered with items you can’t open (a la Neverwinter), it’s basically the same thing. You are paying money for a random grab bag, and the chances of getting a specific rare from that grab bag have just gone down with this change.

Karl_Hungus
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Karl_Hungus

Midgetsnowman Karl_Hungus A Dad Supreme 
You mean all the old gear they took out of the game only to put back as random drops in alliance crates so you have to mindlessly grind heroics to get access to what used to be available in the game if you enjoyed group content??

Kass40
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Kass40

MorpayneRADIO Pretty much yeah!

MorpayneRADIO
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MorpayneRADIO

Lockboxes will be in every genre eventually. Shooters, mobas, fighting games, even Facebook games. Anything with a shop to buy cosmetics will have boxes one day.

Kass40
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Kass40

dionm01 Kass40 Thank You :)

Kass40
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Kass40

dionm01 I totally agree with you, I do think in general that mmo’s have had their time and reached its critical mass. The FTP system is killing the genre.

dionm01
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dionm01

Kass40 well said
Dion

Kass40
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Kass40

The reason they are doing this is quite simple, People have given them and other companies the greenlight to behave in this manner. They know full well, people will pay to get what they want through lockboxes.

So at the end of the day, if you have ever bought lockboxes with real world currency then you only have yourselves to blame.

Midgetsnowman
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Midgetsnowman

Karl_Hungus A Dad Supreme Midgetsnowman actually, a lot of really good costumes also come from the boxes you get from doing endgame activities (as theyre adpative, accountweide versions of the raid gear), and yes, a lot of cool gear comes from the cartel, but theyre available on the GTN as a result, and money isnt exactly hard to come by in swtor

rottenrotny
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rottenrotny

Yay, the worst MMO cash shop imaginable just got even worse! 
Whodathunk it even possible?!

wjowski
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wjowski

jeremy2020 wjowski 
You can walk away and refuse to patronize a game that uses such an abusive payment model.

wjowski
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wjowski

Midgetsnowman Karl_Hungus 
You’re kidding right?  Square-Enix was *dying* before FFXIV hit it big.

dionm01
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dionm01

That is why stupid things like this, people like me are more and more moving away from MMO’s in general.  If you look at the big picture, no wonder people are saying that MMO’s a dying.  I do not like saying that because I do like MMO’s, but the developers and publishers are just pissing us off even more, day after day it seems.  Oh well, we’ll ways have other things to do to keep us entertained.
Dion

Karl_Hungus
Guest
Karl_Hungus

A Dad Supreme Karl_Hungus Midgetsnowman 
Whether the lockboxes drop out in the world and you have to buy keys to open them, or you just buy the boxes straight from the cash shop, either way they’re filled with random crap so you could spend $100 and not get anything good. That type of gambling is straight out of Asian MMO’s. You shit on Trion for it but Biofail gets a free pass? Why? Because it’s Star Wars? Fuck that hypocritical double standard bullshit.

In SWTOR, the best looking stuff in the game comes from the Cartel Market. Meanwhile rewards for achieving things in the game are lackluster in comparison. If you want to look cool, if you want to ride a cool mount, be prepared to gamble away your money or grind an absurd amount of credits instead of actually being a good player, achieving something difficult, and getting a reward to showcase for it.

A Dad Supreme
Guest
A Dad Supreme

captainzor A Dad Supreme Forget the packs for a moment, and focus on what you said; “subscription becoming less and less valuable”.
Now if you subbed for the cash shop bonus, that might be true but I think most people sub for the play and use the cash shop as a fun addition that’s not necessary.
So the value isn’t any less even if you bought less things in the shop with the coins or w/e. The sub is still a high value vs playing it free, where you have to work for credits to buy unlocks from the AH.

A Dad Supreme
Guest
A Dad Supreme

Karl_Hungus Midgetsnowman “Which is exactly my problem with it. FFXIV doesn’t need to pull this shit and it’s doing just as good, if not better, than SWTOR. ”
=======
FFXIV doesn’t need a cash shop period. They just added one for fun.
Everyone pays a sub in FFXIV, so money isn’t an issue.

A Dad Supreme
Guest
A Dad Supreme

BrotherMaynard wasted a perfectly good pic on the wrong game, Brother!

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