Massively OP Podcast Episode 60: Nostalrius down

When the world of private and illegal emulators comes crashing down upon the heads of thousands of gamers, how will they ever express their anguish? Bree and Justin sift through the emotional wreckage of the Nostalrius shutdown during this week’s show, tackling once again the topic of emulators and their place and purpose in the MMO industry.

It’s the Massively OP Podcast, an action-packed hour of news, tales, opinions, and gamer emails! And remember, if you’d like to send in your own letter to the show, use the “Tips” button in the top-right corner of the site to do so.

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57 Comments on "Massively OP Podcast Episode 60: Nostalrius down"

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agemyth
Guest
agemyth

Rebel Engie He would probably rather just go to space again. Or host lavish cosplay/RP parties.

agemyth
Guest
agemyth

Oh, yay! I got a thing read on the podcast :)
Took me a while to finish this ‘cast.

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

MadMadChuck paragonlostinspace Quincha On the map, definitely, with three big franchises. But it was WoW that took off absurdly along with the rise of the internet. :D

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Guest
breetoplay

Icnoevil Vagabond_Sam “No business as big as blizzard gets successful not making money where they can.” That’s just it — Blizzard is proving, right now, this very minute, that it does not care about making money where it can when it could make more money in a different game, otherwise it would be pouring resources into WoW and pumping out content and expansions at an accelerated rate to make money off of WoW.
Investors don’t care about a vanilla server emulating a game from 10 years ago. Investors care about Hearthstone, Overwatch, the King acquisition, the movie studio, and so on.

breetoplay
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breetoplay

Tithian It would be good PR. A lot of other companies would do it for the PR alone. Blizzard isn’t one of them. :/

Rebel Engie
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Rebel Engie

I still have my Tabula Rasa box :)
Loved that game and was there when it went offline.
I did not buy into Garriot’s SotA, but would be very interested in a new TR.
Perhaphs he could wrestle the rights away from NCSoft, seeing how he won his $28M court case against them.

KaiserPhoenix
Guest
KaiserPhoenix

breetoplay KaiserPhoenix Bree, i didnt watch the podcast when I posted that. It was meant as a general answer to the hundreds of comments over multiple articles here on MOP.

TJFrenchJr
Guest
TJFrenchJr

My ddo problem is this.
I’ve been playing on and off 10 years. Think about that.
That’s an insane amount of investment. And in a single character. In a single game.
I have alts, sure. First lifers who store stuff for me. My main has pretty much everything I could want or need. All the new content lately (anniversary excluded) revolves around legendary raids, meeting maximum level.
This lag interferes with that. That’s my fun. New stuff. The only new New stuff they are making is high level, tough, New stuff. I can’t really make even a mistake or we die. Mobs hitting for thousands. I can run low level with my eyes closed. It’s not fun. If they made New low level stuff, then we can talk. But they don’t really. Not in some time.
I know I’m not alone. There are multiple people in the group I run with even who are on their “final life”, meaning they tr’ed all they needed to and are in a final build. They want new content also. It’s just a huge conundrum. We can’t play what they made for us and we have no idea what is coming next, while we are being asked to keep ponying up money for that privilege.
I can’t do it. It’s becoming woefully not worth it. They are a game company in the entertainment industry. When wotc craps all over d&d, we move on to another game like pathfinder. Sadly, the pathfinder mmo is bad, but I’m guessing you catch my drift.
I don’t want to leave, but my friends are, and turbine treating us like crap doesn’t help. They don’t owe me anything. I just expected more from them.
I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed. And it’s not just them. It’s the tilt of the industry of late. We aren’t people. We’re wallets and credit cards. It pretty much sucks.

Damonvile
Guest
Damonvile

If all 9 million people that played on it came here it would be the biggest story ever!!!!

Icnoevil
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Icnoevil

Vagabond_Sam It wouldn’t cost them much. Spinning up a Vanilla server in today’s tech is a few clicks away on a webpage. Also some basic math. 150k players alone in box price and subs is $10,000,000 and $2.2 million a month. Thats just off the Nost server. Imagine how many subs they would get back with some blizz love I could easily see them getting a million subs back. Its a lot of money which is why I am confident we will probably see vanilla servers soon.

It is a public company they work for investor and somebody somewhere is going to ask where this money is and why they are not making it.

Esoteric Coyote
Guest
Esoteric Coyote

breetoplay Karl_Hungus Damonvile I feel silly for feeling shocked that people send angry letters for dumb stuff.  You know the next time your podcast doesn’t mention a topic I want to hear about it, I’ll send a nasty little letter.  “WHY YOU NO PONY?!  MOAR PONIES!!!”

breetoplay
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breetoplay

Karl_Hungus breetoplay Damonvile I disagree that it’s a small thing. :D It’ll have been one of the biggest stories of the year by the end of it!

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

Damonvile Maybe he was being ironic? :D

Tithian
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Tithian

Potential Vanilla WoW servers don’t have to be super successful for Blizzard. It’d be an amazing PR move (we hear our fans) and the costs would be negligible. If amateurs do it for FREE, freakin Blizzard can do it more easily and with more integrated features (i.e. BNet support).
All they need is a disclaimer saying that “this is all the content you’ll be getting, don’t complain about anything” and “bugs are known, we’ll do nothing about them, deal with it” and they’re golden.

Damonvile
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Damonvile

asdthefish Give it a few days and their concurrent users will be over 10 billion.

Jack Pipsam
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Jack Pipsam

Sodaandcandy It’s reality.
The reality is that the industry and their interest is the dominating factor in most things. If Blizzard doesn’t have any interest in Vanilla servers, all the pleas from old school players aren’t going to change their mind.
Now sure in situations like Runescape where player interest and developer interest line up, it’s groovy. But when looking at for-profit-media (which WoW and most MMOs are) then the industry reality must always be taken into account.

MadMadChuck
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MadMadChuck

paragonlostinspace Quincha I’m pretty confident Blizzard was on the map before WoW…

asdthefish
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asdthefish

Justin could not be more wrong for the the Nost server look up the active concurrent players they posted on their site. DO SOME RESEARCH! go guys you are getting so lazy about this.The NOS server have been growing for 2 years to 100k plus concurrents.

TheBeholder
Guest
TheBeholder

The DDO server move has been a work in progress and I’m sure that with so many moving parts to an older game, optimization of play speed is a lot of work. For lower level content it has been almost unnoticeable and for the past while I’ve been focusing on characters from the level 1-20 range and not playing epic levels from 20 – 30 as much. There are a lot of us who would like to give Turbine the time to get it right.
The forums (as many forums) can be a vitriolic place where people are able to complain to their hearts content so I always take words that aren’t game play related with a grain of salt. It seems that it is a vocal few – including IronClan – who take a subject and make a mountain out of something for the sake of passing the time. I usually don’t bother much with those threads and get the information I came for. I’m sure you’re aware of forum dynamics but wanted to give voice to those that may not bother spending time on superfluous discussions.
As far as developer communication is concerned, for most of the games history (from what I have heard and from my own experience playing for 5 years) the developers themselves have not been extremely active on the forums and it is the community manager’s job to communicate with the community. I think Cordovan has been doing great work there. Over the past year Severlin has held the reigns as producer and all have been pleasantly surprised at the amount of communication we’ve been getting from him directly. From what I understand Severlin is also active in coding and in such a crucial time as this I would much prefer to see him heading up his team in solving lag issues than chatting with us on the forums. 
We have to remember that for the player base we spend our leisure time in game but for the developers workable game play is their livelihood. I and others want to give them the space to work to ensure we have a place to spend our leisure time for years to come.

Karl_Hungus
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Karl_Hungus

breetoplay Karl_Hungus Damonvile 
I’m not complaining. It’s the nature of the beast. All media is like that now. They take a small thing, make it into a big thing by talking about it nonstop for a few days, and then they move on to the next “story”. And who can blame them when the attention span of the audience is at an all-time low? Next week, nobody will be talking about Nostalrius.

paragonlostinspace
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paragonlostinspace

Damonvile breetoplay Karl_Hungus Hehe!. Yeah I don’t forsee any of us in the near future suddenly stopping making dumb comments. lol. Being one of those who does make dumb comments from time to time. :)

paragonlostinspace
Guest
paragonlostinspace

Sodaandcandy They do not always side with the industry. Calling them shills is inaccurate and uncalled for. They’re correct that Blizzard does have the right to enforce their trademarks, copyrights, patents etc. That’s not being a shill to note that, it’s stating facts, nothing more. Sheesh.

Sodaandcandy
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Sodaandcandy

Vanilla WoW server.Why do you two always take the side of the industry and not players? You sound like a couple of shills.

Damonvile
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Damonvile

breetoplay Karl_Hungus Damonvile Well if you’re going to go all reasonable and logical every time we make dumb comments maybe  I’ll just stop making dumb comments…… ( I’m not really going to do that )

Estranged
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Estranged

I’ve enjoyed reading the opinions concerning the issue. A cool social experiment.

donweel
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donweel

I know some people are having problems with DDO being laggy since the data center move, particularly hard core raiders. I have been playing normally on Cannith with my small group of regulars and we only had occasional glitches nothing out of the ordinary. I understand that moving a legacy game like DDO to a virtual server is probably a nightmare. But I am sure it will sort out in time. It is not hitting everyone equally and I think some servers have more problems than others. i know that moving to virtual server is a cost saving move but I don’t think that means the game is ending, Turbine is still expanding the game on a regular basis. I don’t think Wizards of the Coast will refuse an IP renewal I feel they will play nice with Warner Brothers. The game has had tough times before and people have left but sooner or later they come back. Myself included.

breetoplay
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breetoplay

Karl_Hungus Damonvile You know if we hadn’t talked about it, we’d have people screaming at us because we ignored the major MMO story of the week, like the peeps who sent angry letters when we skipped a week of mentioning Black Desert which is obviously the greatest game of all time, or the people who got angry when we had on Mark Jacobs instead of talking about GW2’s latest shitshow. :P Damned if we do, damned if we don’t.
Tbh, it was a pretty novel story to talk about, so I’m not even sorry. We don’t often have great reasons to dig into emulators and vanilla server talk.

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

KaiserPhoenix That isn’t what Justin and I were saying at all. Not a single bit of it. What podcast did you listen to?
I do think a classic server would be welcomed, but it wouldn’t be as popular as a free one obviously, and it would be vanishingly tiny even still compared to the rest of WoW, plus Blizzard is already playing the retro card on modern content. And it doesn’t matter anyway because it wouldn’t be profitable enough for Blizzard to give a damn. We also talked about how Daybreak’s and Jagex’s support for classic EQ and RuneScape servers is much part of their core businesses and community appeal in a way that contrasts with Blizzard rather than is reinforced by it. We mentioned them specifically, by name.
And no, I most definitely do not think that people who were playing on Nostalrius were blinded by nostalgia. Nostalgia is a thing, but that’s not what that is. You can opine that they have poor taste, but you can’t dismiss them with the word nostalgia. And if you can wait until tomorrow, you can read a thousand more words of the rant I already have slotted on this very topic. :p

Winterskorn
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Winterskorn

breetoplay Winterskorn Thanks :D

breetoplay
Guest
breetoplay

Winterskorn I honestly don’t know — I will find out. :D

godybard
Guest
godybard

old man goes jim hacker

man who into me to French toast

u hungry boy

I know we building a wall

the guardian announces

slap your banksy on this

we have meta’d hes worh monet

1 WALL 1 VORK

godybard
Guest
godybard

enemy of the state ]

gene Hackman will smith

u know how it work mmmjjj

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EexFUGL5g2Q

godybard
Guest
godybard

Justin if

a man says

I would vote for u

putin knows a kgb boy

he saw

his own dick at a young age

he knew snap chat before it was launched

the spazi tried to beat him with

on the way out of afgan lands the northern alliance

pushtun into the pashtune

u can laugh lady stoning

we have no tanks

SeedEve
Guest
SeedEve

Black desert might get bigger,also keep in mind that there are lots of legit players such as myself and many in my guild which is an international gaming community who have been IP blocked.I’m still waiting for that potential international server to get live if such a thing will ever happen.

sray155
Guest
sray155

Nyres I remember the same situation at my local BestBuy after SWG folded the Jump To Lightspeed expansion into the base game. I told guys in the electronics department multiple times that the box was literally useless to any customer who purchased it, but it stayed on the shelves for nearly a year (of course this was immediately post NGE, so even the base game sat there as well).

Nyres
Guest
Nyres

Damn and I thought it was weird when I saw Tabula Rasa on shelves at my Walmart when I still worked there 3 months after the game shut down.  I even told people in electronics, (i was a cashier though so I probably wasn’t important enough for my pointing out the facts to matter) that the game was shut down and was useless to a costumer.  Then when going through electronics on my way home the next day I still saw it on the shelf and I think it stayed there for a few months.

BalsBigBrother
Guest
BalsBigBrother

KaiserPhoenix the only experts that matter are Blizzard, they have the final word and that word seems to be a NOPE.  Everything after that doesn’t really matter a jot.

Vagabond_Sam
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Vagabond_Sam

Blizzard classic servers would almost certainly be profitable.
However the company doesn’t just look at “will it make money if i invest $1 000 000?”
The question is “will this make the MOST money over time for my $1 000 000?”
I think blizzard think they’ll get more bang for their buck elsewhere so they are investing where it makes more sense for them.
While there is appetite for classic wow, blizzard are after bigger more widespread appeal ways to invest time and money. Neither of which are infinite

Winterskorn
Guest
Winterskorn

those amazon links I’m assuming that only works in the US not in Canada?

Reihen
Guest
Reihen

You’re entirely right, it’s perfectly clear that Blizzard doesn’t care about WoW or even their fans in the slightest.
It’s been 14 months since the last content update in retail and as a result the servers are dead. Not a single server has medium population.

paragonlostinspace
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paragonlostinspace

Quincha paragonlostinspace  I’m starting to think that Blizzard is tired of WoW themselves, regardless that it’s the game that really put them on the map in a major way. Along with that thought is the thought that his is the “B team” working on the game these days. Whereas the A team members are either on other projects these days or with other companies.

Karl_Hungus
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Karl_Hungus

Damonvile Karl_Hungus 
Yeah I had considered the cow getting milked for all its worth too… both are appropriate… MOP is milking the cow and the commenters are beating the dead horse lol

paragonlostinspace
Guest
paragonlostinspace

agemyth paragonlostinspace It was a single system that so much centered around. I think it was/is the heart of the general unhappiness and those who left. I know my wife and I burnt out in record time playing WoD, the first time that had ever happened. Your millege may vary but I know her and I are not a minority on our feelings on WoD. (shrugs)

Wandris
Guest
Wandris

paragonlostinspace  Blizz seems to think that  adding more quality, story, features, loot are the most important things to do every expansion. These are good things but they are meaningless if the gameplay is so simple, easy, and fast. What makes an MMO great like classic was that you were practically starved for loot(which was low power), getting from one area to the next took time, and doing a quest took more than 60 seconds. Mobs were packed tighter, there was less AoE, and they chain pulled easily. This lead to situations you had to retreat or had a real risk of death. WoW today you can AoE pack after pack after pack and sometimes 2 or 3 packs at the same time just mashing the same 2 or 3 skills. Individual skill usually goes up after years and instead of making the core game more challenging they have made it ridiculously easy. Makes no sense since even 5 year olds are practically born with twitch skills these days, so who does this simple boring gameplay actually serve? 

Secondly they pay zero attention to the state of their PVP servers. For 5 or 6 years now the server I was on slowly became more Horde heavy until there was about a 9-10 ratio. Everyone changed servers, left or faction changes. Which leave guys like me with a ton of alts in the position of spending a large sum to transfer or contending with ridiculous PK every new patch and expansion. I used to enjoy open world in WoW although those days are long dead. 

Third, little room or reason for dynamic grouping on the fly.

Fourth monetization, no other game gets away with dipping in 5/5 revenue stream that I can think of: Subscription, expansions, cash shop, Plex, Service fees and on top of that straight up P2W like level boost. 

Despite all this if it didn’t have a sub attached I would probably have bought future expansions, although little point in paying $60 for a month for one of the easiest MMO’s on the market when right now there are many better and more worthy options.

Damonvile
Guest
Damonvile

Karl_Hungus I was thinking more along the lines of how much more milk can this cow really have but…

agemyth
Guest
agemyth

paragonlostinspace I love my garrison. I think it is unlikely that a single system is a massive expansion can be seen as what drove away millions of subscribers. It is likely just the increasing effects of diminishing returns on holding onto subscribers after an expansion launch.
The game can’t really do anything to be new and flashy anymore. There are no more regions to launch the game in to help prop up declining subscriptions in other regions. MMOs themselves are no longer the big thing companies are investing in right now.
The class halls seem to address my main issue with Garrisons by allowing a bunch of other people to be standing around afk or hopping around aimlessly like we all love to see in traditional cities.

Karl_Hungus
Guest
Karl_Hungus
paragonlostinspace
Guest
paragonlostinspace

Great podcast as usual. Justin’s comments towards the end made me smile and chuckle a bit. The part on the whole people are reading my stuff and the disconnect you all feel at times. :) 

  Btw on the whole WoW server thing, while I feel that Blizzard is within their right to go after and shut down these servers, I’d like to point out that Blizzard appears to be missing the reason that these servers are popular. Blizzard is a mmorpg game developer who takes a step forward and two steps back when they’re off their game and at best takes two steps forward and one step back when they’re on their game development.

  I watched this Video this afternoon that was reviewing some of what the player was experiencing in Legion Alpha and you clearly see that Blizzard once again invests time and effort into mechanics that players don’t like. <flails> WoD has had to have set a record for the largest percent of population decrease at the fastest speed ever for a WoW expansion. The Garrison system playing a big role on this and yet Blizzard is basically doubling down with Legion. <stares off>

 Oh and here’s the video review for those who want to watch, it’s 22 minutes long and I find enlightening though sad because of the direction that Blizzard is taking. 

Neo_Wolf
Guest
Neo_Wolf

Best thing about Tabula Rasa was this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4MGvdXKTVQ

KaiserPhoenix
Guest
KaiserPhoenix

Runescape, Everquest, Lineage Classic servers are very popular, but for some peculiar reason some armchair experts tell everyone that a wow classic server would not be popular. They also say that wow classi was not better, that these people are blinded by nostalgia. Were people who started playing wow in wotlk and had a blast in nostralius also blinded by nostalgia? lol

Very peculiar indeed.

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