Dave Georgeson offers players encouragement on Landmark shutdown

Former Landmark lead Dave Georgeson took to Twitter on Friday with a note of encouragement for fans of the soon-to-be shuttered MMO: "To those reading about the [Landmark] shutdown. Your dreams aren't dying, only this vehicle for them. Stay in touch with each other. Friends > game."

Georgeson was let go from Daybreak as part of the transition from SOE in February 2015. In an interview last spring, he said that if he had remained at the helm of the studio's next-gen MMOs, he would have delivered EverQuest Next "to vision."

Landmark will close its doors on February 21st.

Source: Twitter
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128 comments
melissaheather
melissaheather

The game died the day he left.  He was the spiritual leader, cheerleader, voice of enthusiasm, the reason you believed.  You really felt like Dave was a friend who was sharing this wonderful game he'd discovered with you, full of  bright and shiny childlike wonder. I got tears in my eyes watching his 5 minute (yeah) video they made you watch before you got your first look at Landmark, at the biomes that would be in the new Norrath.

Estranged
Estranged

@melissaheather From the outside looking into the EQ franchise (given I have played little of either game), he was definitely carrying the banner. Wish they would have let some testers give them feedback on what they had with EQN.  

pigluck
pigluck

Some of you people I swear. He was fired from his massively long job at SOE/Daybreak on a whim and then y'all scorn him for trying to reach out and give a little consolation? Jeeeeeeze.



pigluck
pigluck

@morganfeldon @pigluck He was fired suddenly after SOE being sold to Columbus Nova lol keep hating on him all you want but facts are facts

Hamsandwich
Hamsandwich

Thanks, "SmokeandMirrors Jumper".  Not saying this is all your fault, just mostly.

Greyraven
Greyraven

I think Landmark was released with the intent to shut down, maybe they thought they would liable legally over the founders packs who knows.

Elven_Seraph
Elven_Seraph

He is one of my favorite people in the industry.  Just makes me smile to see.

morganfeldon
morganfeldon

@Elven_Seraph Sorta like Peter Molyneaux or Brad McQuaid. People throw money at them before they've even heard what the game is going to be.

kjempff
kjempff

Loved Dave Georgeson's visions with EqNext, but Landmark was a huge mistake.

At the time where the vision of EqNext was presented, there was a 30 minute talk with Dave Georgeson where I thought YES finally a developer who gets it, someone who wants to break free of the story driven crap, who knows what made mmo's great in the past and use that knowledge to make a modern mmo game that wasn't an on rails themepark. That was the vision of EqNext on paper, and that it later ran into all kinds og silly things such as the toony graphics, crappy combat presentation, and the voxel engine mistake, etc, that is another story.


Landmark was just a very bad idea for so many reasons. Trying to build the real next gem mmorpg is a huge undertaking which would have taken every resource and skill they had, so doing Landmark as well looks from the outside as an overconfident move. This is where someone should have stopped Dave Georgeson and they instead should have focused on getting EqNext to be a real game, and acknowledges that they were early in development and in order to move towards EqNexts visions they had to cut some dead limbs (voxel engine maybe).


Anyways, say what you like about Dave Georgeson and he probably has strengths and weaknesses, but a visionary he is and in todays total blandness of story driven mmo crap that was.. IS what is needed.


Kayweg
Kayweg

Released in june, closed in january.

Somebody somewhere doesn't shy away from swift decision making.

If i was a still active DBG MMO, i wouldn't want to make that person unhappy, or we might see a few more "consoling tweets" this year.

Estranged
Estranged

Now, I will go to my safe place with my companion dog and shape clay.

Estranged
Estranged

@Serrenity Do you have more crayons? :)

Tethyss
Tethyss

Dave has grown on me, I don't know what all the negative comments below are about.   Maybe if someone could link an unbiased post mortem article (like Gamasutra does) I might have a clearer picture.

One other point...anyone who says the game was shut down because Daybreak said they "couldn't make it fun" and believes them needs to have their head examined.  That's just the fat cats/bean counters spewing marketing double-speak.

melissaheather
melissaheather

@Tethyss Well, on the other hand... we have to consider that it may be true.  Combat is abysmally basic in Landmark. Might be that it was also abysmal in the EQN server as well.   That would be a catastrophic failure kind of feature to get wrong... maybe they did.

ComradeStanimir
ComradeStanimir

It's never your successful friends posting inspirational quotes, etc. etc.

ManastuUtakata
ManastuUtakata

"Friends > game."

While that is stating the obvious, I don't think it really helps players who are losing this game. In fact, I am pretty sure it doesn't help them whatsoever.

Witches
Witches

@ManastuUtakata Being fired might have impacted negatively on his capacity to make the players of the game happy.

Neo_Wolf
Neo_Wolf

Yes because their assurances mean SO much...*chuckle*.

Bannex19
Bannex19

I don't feel very comforted.

paragonlostinspace
paragonlostinspace

My thoughts on Dave have soured the more I've read  post mortem into the whole development cluster f*** that EQN was.

Ganymede
Ganymede

@ItsatrapLOL @paragonlostinspace I trust Feldon.  He has been a very loyal fan of the game (EQ2) for years, and he has always been respected by the SOE staff, including Dave.  He has a lot of friends in the current studio, and maintains old friends from the previous one.  I find some people are quick to disregard his criticisms because he can't divulge his sources, but if you knew his history and credibility, then you would at least listen openly to what he has to say and write about.

paragonlostinspace
paragonlostinspace

@ItsatrapLOL @paragonlostinspace  Yeah, I'm still on the fence about everything and actually would love to learn more. I don't want to sour on him because he is such a likeable guy who really had a passion for the hobby. I just don't want to be one of those who can't see someone I like being very wrong. We need more info.

Tandor Shadewalker
Tandor Shadewalker

@breetoplay @gazza103 Scott Hartsman had a big following until he was at Trion where he had to make some difficult decisions to save the company. It's true that he didn't have the support of those who preferred forced grouping in their MMOs, but they had already become a very small minority in the new generation of MMOs.


I personally had a lot of time for him when he was at EQ2, not least because he took the trouble to pick up on my thoughts about the game on Vault Network's forum and PM'd me with what he was doing about the game and asking me to let him know from time to time how I thought things were going. We conversed a few times and I felt that he was taking the game in the right direction - it certainly seems to have survived rather well! I was sorry to see him go.

breetoplay
breetoplay moderator

@Tandor Shadewalker @breetoplay @gazza103 Yeah, to be clear, I don't agree with the pile-on sentiment either. And I like Hartsman and his philosophies on the whole. The EQ franchise has some funny player factions is all. And they love a villain.

gazza103
gazza103

Nah I wish Hartsman never left. I loved his vision of EQ2, they don't make em like that anymore...

gazza103
gazza103

It's true anybody that played EQ2 before Georgeson was hired would tell you as much.

breetoplay
breetoplay moderator

@gazza103 Which is funny because anybody who played EQ2 before Georgeson was also too busy at the time telling everyone how Scott Hartsman 'ruined' EQ2. It's a crowd with a penchant for this kind of thing.

morganfeldon
morganfeldon

@ItsatrapLOL @paragonlostinspace I guess my philosophy is "isn't it awful what happened? I wish we knew what went wrong!" articles aren't nearly as helpful or constructive as "here's what actually happened -- a lack of planning, hubris, the wrong focus, and constantly changing directions."

I also don't find hero worship to be particularly helpful. People throw money at Peter Molyneaux and Brad McQuaid before they've even seen the development pitch just because those names carry weight. That's not healthy in the gaming industry.

This is an opportunity for Daybreak to turn the page, jettison the baggage of former misguided efforts, and start working on a proper EverQuest III. No early access please though!

gazza103
gazza103

Dave Georgeson can suck an egg.

EQ Next was cancelled because in daybreaks words 'we couldn't make it fun'.

He systematically fucked EQ2 year on year when he ran that untill it wasn't fun anymore either. So to sum up, Dave Georgeson = Not fun.

theeknighthood
theeknighthood

I have been a bit slack with keeping up with news but this is being shut down is it, can't say I am overly bothered it has not even been installed on my Steam account for some time, still it is sad news for those creative people who have built some amazing things :(

Telos_
Telos_

It's not surprising at all.  Before Daybreak, the SOE team was trying to manage both EQN and Landmark, which was a huge mistake.  Their biggest mistake was relying too much on voxels which was very resource intensive for most machines.  Even the voxel developer warned that it wasn't ready yet.

With that said, the game was amazing in it's freedom to create things.  It just fell short because it tried to be an MMO and a content-creator simulator (such as SL or IMVU),  at the same time.  It tried using a UI and combat system that wasn't meant for building.

Also, not sure why people are trashing Daybreak.  SOE was to blame.  Not even Blizzard could turn this game around.  It was just a mess.

Tandor Shadewalker
Tandor Shadewalker

SOE should have stuck with the original intention to create EQN as a true sequel to EQ and EQ2.


Had they done so, we'd be playing EQN today, and SOE would have survived as a profitable and fully-fledged game development company whether under Sony or independently. It's unlikely most of us would have heard of Dave Georgeson.


It's clear that a lot of mistakes were made in respect of the EQN/Landmark project, but the really critical ones were made very early on. From 2013 it was downhill all the way, and inevitably so.


It must be gut-wrenchingly hard for those who worked hard for years on EQ, EQ2 and EQN/Landmark to take, as it is for those who have played the EQ franchise lovingly and loyally since the EQ beta in 1998. I hope someone can eventually deliver on what should have been the aim all along, and make a true sequel to EQ and EQ2. 

Rozyn
Rozyn

I still feel so bad for the people who spend thousands of hours building insane structures in this game. First they were told they were never making it into EQN, now they're being removed enitrely. 

NobleNerd
NobleNerd

Am left with this feeling that Dave knows something more than he is letting on..........


Looking forward to an announcement in 2017 *gazes @DaveGeorgeson :P