Valve sunsets Steam Greenlight, proposes dev submission fees to ‘decrease the noise’

Valve is determined to keep itself in the news this weekend, apparently: Yesterday, the company announced it’s shutting down the Steam Greenlight platform. That’s no big deal; Greenlight’s been a bit of a joke for a long time, such a weakΒ barrier to entry that pundits have long argued there’s so much on Steam that it’s hard to find anything.

Where it gets complicated is in how Valve plans to replace Greenlight: Instead of the company curating what it publishes or players vetting games with easily manipulable votes, the studios themselves will be paying an entry fee to weed out… well, presumably they think it’ll weed out bad games, but it looks more like the actual effect will be to weed out poorbies, students, experimental games, and folks in developing countries — meanwhile, giant distributors pushing out garbage will breeze on by.

“The next step in these improvements is to establish a new direct sign-up system for developers to put their games on Steam. This new path, which we’re calling Steam Direct, is targeted for Spring 2017 and will replace Steam Greenlight. We will ask new developers to complete a set of digital paperwork, personal or company verification, and tax documents similar to the process of applying for a bank account. Once set up, developers will pay a recoupable application fee for each new title they wish to distribute, which is intended to decrease the noise in the submission pipeline.”

Valve says that it’s considering fees in the $100 to $5000 range and is still collecting feedback.

Gamasutra’s been polling game developers for their reaction to the move, and the mood is definitely not what I’d call delighted. While most of the dev respondents are indifferent to Greenlight’s existence itself, indie devs are particularly unhappy with the idea that they might be shut out of the market they’ve only just fought to belong in.

Source: Valve. Cheers, Ceder.
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78 Comments on "Valve sunsets Steam Greenlight, proposes dev submission fees to ‘decrease the noise’"

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Denice J. Cook

As a once-proud member of the PC Master Race, this is just one more reason I’m glad I migrated to console. First it was gold farmers, botters, hackers, dupers and exploiters making me weary. Nowadays it’s Steam’s antics. All they do with ideas like this is open more doors for Sony and Microsoft to take up the slack.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

The market hates a vacuum. When Valve pulls the plug on its international Greenlight platform, if a market truly exists for a small in-progress developer platform, it will just be a matter of time before another distribution platform takes it up. And if no one does, then it simply isn’t a workable arrangement.

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David

This is great, the price IMO should be fairly high. There is already enough trash on steam that was allowed in through steam greenlight.

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Erik Heinze-Milne

I mean… Greenlight already HAD a submission fee… making it more expensive is just going to punish smaller devs just starting out.

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mag

This is the best news I’ve seen in a while. I have become steadily more and more discouraged by the predatory efforts of mercenary developers with no quality or investment behind what can laughably be called ‘games.’ Steam did nothing to stem the tide either which resulted in a lot of people being fooled into buying rubbish. I’m ashamed to admit how often I was burned with this. As someone else has commented, this has ruined any reputation Steam had for quality. It will be hard to get it back, but hopefully this move will deter anyone without a solid product. Well done Valve!

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Robert Mann

Yeah, somebody else will come along before long and scoop up all those indie studios… and celebrate their successes.

This sounds like a great way to focus only on bigger studios. If Steam desires that, then they can do that. They just might be surprised how many people don’t like the move, though.

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mcsleaz

The Greed never stops…..smh.

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Greaterdivinity

I continue to strongly dislike the direction Valve is going with this. It’s not a benefit to consumers or many indie devs at all.

More and more it seems like they’re looking for any way possible to do less work, all while still reaping huge piles of cash from Steam. Leaving a worse experience for users because there’s no curation at all, while also not addressing the issue of how many completely broken and bullshit games continue to make browsing the storefront a nightmare.

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Daniel Miller

To be fair DLC’s don’t really count a new job. Go back to ffxi, ffxiv, and many other games. The new job itself warden feels like its is ok for expansion. But I want to see more then just one new skill tree like thief guild or DB. A weapon type, and such would really make it feel right.

A expansion with a new job but perhaps one or less skill tress and perhaps no new crafting categories wouldn’t feel right.

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John Kiser

Uhhh what?

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Hirku

I think maybe he meant this comment to go on the ESO article that appears a couple slots above this one on the main page.

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rafael12104

Hmm. The cynic in me thinks that this is less about barriers and more about profit margins. But I guess it will depend on the price. I can see the marketing dept over at valve developing a price tiered approach as we speak. Lol.

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Roger Christie

The entry fee is supposedly donated to a charity.

ceder
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ceder

The Feed Gabe Foundation….

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zuldar

Maybe put the onus on the consumers? Rather then asking them if they would buy a greenlit game have them actually preorder it. If enough people preorder the game gets put on the store, if not all the preorders get cancelled. Then make a requirement to have a short demo downloadable at the game’s greenlight page.

The biggest problem was people voting in bad faith, with certain unsavory groups manipulating votes in return to payment. If people were forced to invest a little into games they wanted to see greenlit that would reduce the likely-hood of that occurring.

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Armsbend

Good – Steam has turned from the bastion of gaming into the cd sleeve spinning rack of games at Office Depot. Valve’s rep has gone to shit along with their service.

Crow
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Crow

Honestly, the industry needs another crash as terrible as it is to say. Crowdfunding just spread around the risk and issue so thin individual teams were hard pressed to see it.

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Armsbend

I’ve been preaching the same since circa 2013. A deep cut bloodletting so developers realize again exactly who butters their bread. It will happen with the first advent of a pastime none of us are thinking about at the moment.

Like war.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

I get what you’re saying. Still, war is not a pastime. It is a national tragedy.

I think we’ve already seen that development of AAA MMOs in the West is functionally dead. When Blizzard took their Titan assets and made a hugely popular and lucrative FPS out of it, that was a sign.

Blizzard, for all its failings, has always managed to see where the market is moving and get there if not at the beginning, just a short while afterwards with a top drawer entry that blows everyone else out of the water.

So, I’m guessing that while a majority of standard genres and long-time devs/publishers will see a continuing decline as the market both broadens and thins, Blizzard will be on top with its push into eSports, which is the coming thing and the next big movement in the gaming market.

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Sray

I kind of see things headed that way right now. Not a 1983 level of crash, but something of a soft crash. I think that we might even be in the early stages of it already..
As I see it, the “soft crash” of “my prophesy” will look a bit like this: a bunch of highly touted, very expensive games that grossly under-perform upon release (hello Deus Ex and Battleborn); a couple big name franchises are going flounder (Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare, how ya doing? sales down over 25% you say? PC sales have all but evaporated, you say?); the standard methods of recovery will stop working (hey, what happened to Evolve? it just went F2P two seconds ago…); and all of this will lead to one or two major AAA publishers getting into some major financial difficulty, getting bought out by a larger firm of some sort (Vivendi and Nexon aren’t being as overt anymore, but they’re still sniffing around Ubisoft and NCSoft), or perhaps even closing down.
Hopefully all of this will lead to games companies taking more risks on a wider variety of significantly less expensive games.

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mcsleaz

You GROSSLY underestimate just how much cash these AAA publishers have. Losing $50,000,000 on a failed game is a drop in the bucket, not even noticeable to these corporations.

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Armsbend

A monetary loss is small compared to the opportunity cost lost during a 2-4 year development schedule.

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Alberto

Large multi million/billion dollar companies are risk averse by their very nature..this will never change as it would be irresponsible to their stakeholders…it takes small indie companies making a new type or style of game that comes out of no where and becomes popular ( Mindcraft, Ftl, Day Z. stardew Valley) to allow them to try something new. Hopefully Indiegogo, Kickstarter,Vigg will be the place these smaller new ideas games can flourish. In this day and age a multi-million dollar company can’t survive on a bunch of small titles..its the same in Hollywood they need the mindless tentpoll Summer blockbuster movie to pay for the losses from all the smaller more thoughtful movies.

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Archebius

Valve has been all about an open, community-driven market for a long time, but none of their implementations have really done what they intended. Steam Greenlight was cool right at first, when there was a backlog of developed indie games that needed approval – but the piles and piles of garbage out there show that it’s not an ideal long-term solution.

No automated (or curated, for that matter) approval system is going to be perfect. I have a feeling that the fee will do more good than harm, but it will do some harm, too, and that will suck. They have a tough issue on their hands, and I don’t see an optimal solution for it.

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Roger Christie

There is a fee now, for Greenlight, which goes to charity. It’s not clear yet that this will be different, or how.

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Esoteric Coyote

I hope it’s not 5k, while I doubt I’ll ever be an indie developer, unity has a personal edition that I want to check out and if I actually made something of value, I’d love the opportunity to release on steam for a modest price.

I do understand the change though. They are getting flooded with shovelware. And a high price like a few thousand would help reduce that, it could also prevent one-dev/small-team wonders.

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Hirku

I’m in the same boat, studying Unity as a hobbyist / hopeful small-small-time indie. If you take the plunge, my advice is to immediately create an Itch.io account for hosting your games. It’s free and easy to use, and you can immediately do anything from hosting a simple web game to selling a full-release.

For education, I’ve been participating in Udemy courses, specifically this one. It isn’t perfect, but our student community has been great at encouraging and supporting each other. Good luck.

Crow
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Crow

The reality is that even a low up-front cost would more-often-than-not end up unrecouped. SteamSpy did a few calculations and basically of the 5k+ games released on Steam only ~100 or so would recoup a $5k fee and that number doesn’t improve that much as it is lowered.

Because, as someone who once though similarly, you wouldn’t make money anyway. You get a few sales the first few days by virtue of being a new release, and then your product slows to a trickle. The vast majority of revenue is gained at release with small bumps (almost always sales) residually down the line.

To be honest, super-amateur (I count myself there) works are almost always better off avoiding the storefront overhead entirely. I play with RPGMaker a lot and have for years now, and when my mind drifts toward “could I sell this?” I almost always re-direct myself to the fact that if I got serious I’d be, basically, making a demo and then seeking, via said demo, assistance to polish and market. But even then the idea of making more than a few bucks is just statistically unlikely. Hell, I have a “Crowdfunding Simulator” in the works that was inspired by a conversation here on MOP :p

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Esoteric Coyote

My thoughts would be to make it deposit of 500-1000 to discourage abuse, refund the deposit if the dev is active and produced a functional game. But you’re right at a “modest price” it would take thousands of copies to recoup that cost and that’s excluding other business expenses. And it still hurts devs from countries with a weaker currency.

Also don’t forget you can use your personal projects as a portfolio to join a larger company.

Crow
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Crow

I’m really of the mind that super-indie and very small projects are better off nowhere near the big distribution platforms, at least at first. That is mostly due to the fact that when you begin to add in necessary economic activity and begin to see the project as a means of revenue everything changes. It messes priorities and places an insane amount of pressure on eventual market performance. Meanwhile, the reality of most small-scale development is that you need to do quantity over quality to make a lot of money. This is what leads to shovelware at the core.

In think keeping passions as passions is most effective here. It is generally a positive and good thing to be able to move from passion to product, whereas when a team starts with “product” you can’t escape that, ever. And at the end of the day the vast majority of anything new like this fails, economically.

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Brother Maynard

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MesaSage

I broke down and tried to install the latest Steam client on Linux. It doesn’t work. Uninstalled. Not that I really care one way or the other.

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Roger Christie

That’s odd. Steam works great on my linux box and an astonishing number of games are supported nowdays.

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MesaSage

I can’t account for your version of Steam or your Linux distro. It doesn’t work with the latest Steam build on many Ubuntu 16.04/16.10 variants. Not like I had a choice. As soon as I installed the version from the Repository, Steam launched it’s own upgrade without my authorization. It’s not hard to lookup and find how many are having trouble.

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Archebius

Eeyore

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

if valve were earnest in their linux/window store bullshit they’d bankroll making it viable overnight.

but seems they couldnt be arsed and have long lost interest in doing so, like so many half baked projects before it.

Crow
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Crow

Or maybe Linux doesn’t have a large-enough market share to catch on. Which is actually the truth.

There are a million things going on that are far more important than Linux gaming, and companies make choices about their focus all the time. So many projects get abandoned… we’re just hearing about it because players have been convinced they want more information and communication just to, and here’s the point I’ve been trying to make for a few days, take that communication and twist it into something bad. It is a lose-lose to communicate. They state their goals, those goals change and then the community makes up all kinds of reasons for “why” predicated on nothing solid at all.

Honestly, this is so normal for companies. They try a line and more often then we’d think they scrap it before going public. With Valve we’ve demanded to know more (overall for games) and then take that communication and throw it through the cynicism-machine until we’re literally ascribing motivations that we have no beginning concept to even understand.

I mean, if projections on pushing Linux showed a big fat red line, of course they’d kill the project. That’s common sense.

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Roger Christie

SO why are so many games on steam working fine on linux then?

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

we knew linux didn’t have a large enough market share to catch on long before gaben started trolling about it.

which he continues to do.

and the effort to make linux viable was excessively half assed for a company with the immense resources that valve has.

and that sort of thing is abundant with valve’s behaviour over the past several years.

idk why you feel the need to defend it as typical corporate behaviour.

Crow
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Crow

idk why you feel the need to defend it as typical corporate behaviour.

Because it is typical corporate behavior.

Crow
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Crow

Actually, so far the most data-based look at this has been (unsurprisingly) from SteamSpy who even pointed out that he bought a nice apartment in Ukraine for $3k USD.

A $5,000 fee would literally shut out a large percentage of new games. I’m on the fence entirely about how bad that acvtually would be. However, he does point out that higher fees would benefit “asset flips” (i.e. buying an asset pack and making a game with it) and low-investment, fast development.

Even that is more complicated. You often have people doing “asset flips” because they’re single individuals who are not artists. I’m like that. I love to design games for fun but I’m stuck with assets I have from packs because I am so not an artist and nothing I do is worth me involving anyone else. However, that doesn’t mean I couldn’t theoretically make a great game that relied on packed assets. Hell, a lot of games employ a lot of purchased assets, and I’ll just say that there have been bigger indie MMOs that have purchased and used stolen assets entirely by mistake because they got conned by someone else.

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Jack Pipsam

Well the fee they first introduced on Greenlight to try and filter out trash didn’t do much good.

That said, while Greenlight was responsible for A LOT of terrible garbage, this could be bad for indies.
I was doing a games development course for a couple years and I know quite a few of my peers who unlike some of these garbage assist-flippers, had actually put in months if not years of their time into developing really interesting stuff which they put on Greenlight, relying on it as a way to get their game on the platform. The verification thing could also have an impact on younger people getting their games processed (some of which could actually be worth looking at).

While something had to be done with the amount of trash that got through, my fear is this will block out students and poorer people from getting their legit good/interesting stuff on the platform.
I get a very high sense of throwing the baby out with the bathwater with this.

Line
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Line

I guess the paperwork makes sense, but I don’t know if could become an issue for some small time devs.
The application fee needs to be very low (it’s already $100 on Greenlight), do not destroy the open nature of the platform. Enough with the fake concerns about quality, it’s just another way to shut down the ones without a massive marketing budget.
Or just remove people that they don’t like, similar to what GoG.com is doing.

Curators are a bane in the videogame industry, what we need are better ways to discover interesting things. Not some omnipotent entity that decide for the customers, and shank everyone with fees (hi patch certification, minimum of physical copies and assorted asshattery that bred the console market into what it is today).

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

problem with valve’s refusal to curate steam is it’s filled with trash scams and trolls and making it increasingly harder to find the geninuinely interesting products.

ofc valve has no problem interfering when pearl clutchers organize a qq fest about a game based on some social injustice narrative either banning games or fast tracking games based on those social media paid blogger qq storms.

the reality is this is all in line with their motto of doing less work and making more money doing said less work. whatever other excuse or “reason” they give is window dressing at best, just like with them hirign massive legal teams to pretend they don’t do business in australia while claiming outsourcing customer service to have CS at all isn’t part of their culture. which they’ll likely outsource processing the paper work in the new system as well.

Line
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Line

Scams are easy to deal with, and I’m quite sure that’s the point of their new model.
But the mountain of crap available is absolutely needed. Steam, and the PC space at large is open to all.
Yes, even the ones without the budget, or without the competency.

Curating the products only mean refusing what one or a few persons consider out of line. Giving the absolute power that you attribute to some groups that fight against the terrible, terrible things that flood the internet. Free speech is great, but only when my people are in charge, amirite?

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

people already arbitrary gatekeep what should sell and what shouldn’ without store front owners doing basic due dilligence any retailer would otherwise do.

if nothing else than to protect brand perception of the store as a place to buy quality product. which steam is earning well a new reputation for being a haven for mountains of trash scams and trollware rather than a place for interesting games.

i mean do people even window shop on steam itself anymore? cuz anytime i have in teh past 3 years it’s been nothing but piles of trash burying anything half interesting looking. and increasingly interesting games on steam i find just about anywhere but steam itself.

wouldi go to macy’s looking for high end goods if 99% of the shelves were filled with dollar store trinkets?

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Hirku

Ow, my nose! Did you have to slam the door so hard, Valve?

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Duane Does not check email

Too bad there was not an amateur service and a professional. Either way make the criteria tough to get in and not allow junk to get to market.

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agemyth 😩

There is no platform that has “solved” the issue of how to release or not release the thousands of games/apps that want to be released on a marketplace like this.

It would be a terrible loss for us all if we went back to the strict release rules of the days of Xbox Live Arcade (literally one game a week and no control over price) or old Steam in which games were released whenever Valve got around to it.

Crow
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Crow

I feel like people were a lot happier when they weren’t constantly being bombarded to buy the six new games everyone buys day1 for which they put in 10 hours before walking away to the next new thing. Stricter controls would merely mean that many devs would have to go elsewhere… potentially helping to break numerous Steam features from being basically the biggest determination of success. Hell, if it allows niche games to get away from Steam where people give negative reviews based on completely un-objective criteria it will help those smaller games a lot more than being on Steam where normal and expected hiccups are seen as tantamount to devs committing genocide.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

being lazy for cash has become valve’s modus operandi over the past decade. if they can find a way to make money by doing less work they will do it as a priority, while leaving more involved and effort heavy projects on the back burner (as noted by several ex employees that left because they couldn’t deal with that paradigm any longer)

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agemyth 😩

If Valve were “lazy” they wouldn’t be iterating over and over and trying to find better ways to release games on Steam. You seem to think Steam is a low effort self-maintaining system that just spits out games that nobody likes despite the continuing success of the platform.

The “lazy devs” is a lazy complaint.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

it’s literally been outted by numerous ex employees. harder projects are abandoned to go work on easier projects.

every iteration of ways to “improve” steam have been de facto low effort things that maximize income without future work. and this is part and parcel of that paradigm.

the vast majority of money made by valve every day is other people’s work. and this is just increasing the amount of money they make off other’s people work.

valve are not good guys. they haven’t been for a long while now.

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agemyth 😩

it’s literally been outted by numerous ex employees. harder projects are abandoned to go work on easier projects.

Former employees have criticism of employer. Each of those voices is only as valid as the many people who happily work at Valve and see things differently. I do not personally see any of Valve’s major projects as being objectively easier than the others.

every iteration of ways to “improve” steam have been de facto low effort things that maximize income without future work. and this is part and parcel of that paradigm.

Automation is the goal of all apps stores/game marketplaces and pretty much the goal of any successful company. It does not make sense to hire people to QA games before they enter the store.

the vast majority of money made by valve every day is other people’s work. and this is just increasing the amount of money they make off other’s people work.

It is a symbiotic relationship. Developers/publishers go to Steam because that is where the people are. People use Steam largely because they like it.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

tell that to the difference between macy’s and the dollar store.

and why put your game on steam if no one can find it because it’s buried under a mountain of trash trollware and scams?

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agemyth 😩

Your so-called mountain of trash is a molehill to the mountain of legitimate games on the service. Even among Early Access games, the vast majority are legitimate attempts at making actual games.

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Roger Christie

Yeah, I was wondering about that. I encounter plenty of games that aren’t to my taste, but I don’t often see ‘scams’ or ‘trollware’. I own 363 games, and I have absolutely no trouble at all finding things I’m interested in. Sure, a few (very few actually) early access games I’ve bought have petered out, but when you compare the prices I pay now to what i was back in the day when I had to go to stores, I’m perfectly happy.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

the ratio of trash scams and troll ware to legitimately interesting product on steam these days in literally thousands to one.

i mean have you even gone windows shopping through steam in the last couple years because statements like indicate you haven’t.

there’s literally over a thousand early access voxel builder games like landmark on steam for example. and that doesn’t even compare to the amount of survival game trash ware on steam these days.

Crow
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Crow

One person’s “Trash Scam” is another’s perfect game. I’m loving the hell out of Eternal Crusade and the words “scam” and “trash” are thrown around there constantly.

Crow
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Crow

the vast majority of money made by valve every day is other people’s work. and this is just increasing the amount of money they make off other’s people work.

This is literally how you make money. Producing a product is one thing, but having actual assets that generate income is where you create actual wealth.

Hell, it would be a downright piss-poor business decision if Valve stopped leveraging their assets for profit. Hell, the entirety of the market is a process of using other peoples’ money and work to make more money.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i’m well aware of that. it’s valve’s posturing that they do these things for altruistic reasons rather than self interested ones that raises the criticism.

and sadly there’s still people out there that swallow and believe that bullshit. which may have been true at some point a decade or more ago but has become little more than trolling in the last several years.

and it’s not like steam is bankrolling the stuff they make money off either. they aren’t investing in all these modders they want to make money off of or developers that use their store at 30% cut plus application fees + trading cards and hats and cash shops and so on.

it’s other people’s money working for valve.

hell even their esports event marketting efforts for dota2 and csgo are paid for by other people directly and nakedly.

but people still pretend that valve is doing what it does for the good of “pc gaming” or “gamers’ or “developers” when they do this for absolutely no other reason than to pad their wallets, and do so with as little effort as possible. hence why they don’t even make their own games anymore.

Crow
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Crow

You seem to think you know a lot about the internal workings of Valve-as-a-company. So much of this relies upon assumptions and very subjective perspectives. I guess I just don’t see companies as things other than as companies. I also know that an unsuccessful company can do nothing while a successful company can actually work on what they want.

I don’t have issues with Valve’s shift in focus away from games and toward the most dominant storefront out there. Frankly, from a purely objective standpoint, such a desire isn’t even in the correct context. I actually like that Valve will put things away if they don’t like them. As an artist, myself, I cannot get behind the idea that deciding you don’t want to release something to the world is bad.

At the end of the day you have to assume good will unless proven otherwise. Not because we need to give companies the benefit of the doubt or nonsense like that, but because in the absence of actual knowledge you’re just spitting in the dark. I firmly believe that the decisions made by Valve to not release certain products were made for good reasons, even if I’d love to get a new HL game or really much of anything.

Valve are kind-of like Hi-Rez in that they’ve had a very flexible “throw against the wall until it sticks” approach. They just got lucky early on. They’re focusing on three VR projects at the moment. Maybe we’ll see them, maybe we won’t.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

valve’s internal culture is well known in the public eye. they used to brag about it quite loudly at one point. i don’t know why you imply knowing this stuff would eb special knowledge or is not a known quanitity.

we can see all the half baked under developed under supported and quietly abandoned projects valve has done over the past 8 years. everything from steam on osx to steam os/machines to video streaming and beyond.

idk why you think that corporatism is a defense against critcizing a company that continues to portray it’s behaviour as in anyone interest but it’s own.

i think everyone is well aware that companys generally are profit driven (despite what some people act like on this site). that goes withotu saying and is a given when talking about games despite some people’s beliefs.

but often times like with other questions it’s valid to question if these behaviours are really all that productive and long term viable for maintaining those profits, and if they are in the interests of people that aren’t directly profitting from them.

valve continues to undermine their brand even as they become increasingly monopolistic. all while posturing as doing what they do for the benefit of others primarily. it’s comical.

Crow
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Crow

You have no idea why projects were abandoned. You make large assumptions with a negative bias. You’re not at the table when they decide to do things. You don’t see the data and slides.

I choose to use my years of business planning and experience to make base assumptions about actual business conditions… not emotional arguments hinging on how a company portrays themselves.

At the end of the day if you never knew about any of this it would change your perspective. Currently it is a “they said” then “they didn’t”, and my point is that those two positions are not a straight line and on their own are useless. Trying to link the two neglects to take into account what happened in-between and what we lack an understanding of at all. What is between (and what is not understood by the larger population) is where the issues come up.

I’m not defending anything other than the idea that such conclusions should be based as best as possible in fact, not on an outside, limited and emotional reaction.

Crow
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Crow

Except that every single one of us would do the same if given the chance. I hate this criticism for companies being successful. There is no other metric that matters aside from profit margins, and Value has huge profit margins. They are a beast of a successful company and that’s it. There’s no monetary threat you could make to Value to convince them to do anything differently from how they want.

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BalsBigBrother

I agree with deekay_plus to a point and in an ideal world I would love to see Valve put their not inconsiderable resources into really helping new development of indie games. Which I feel would be better for the entire gaming scene in long term.

Sadly though the world isn’t ideal and your view Crow is the one that is always going to happen 99.9% of the time. Profits trump everything else no matter how many people you have to stand on or crush to get them.

/sigh sometime I don’t really like this world that I live in.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

teh ting is gaben trolls abotu stuff like linux gaming or ms EOLing win32 in favour of UWP and monopolizing the windows store (as if steam is monoplistic itself). but if gaben wanted to he could bank roll linux being viable for pc gaming with a full fledged library over night without denting his own wallet a bit and with further profit potential for valve.

it’s valve’s former good guy image that raises the criticisms they face with their behavior over the last 9 years combing with their continues “good guy” trolling they do regularly

Crow
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Crow

That pretty much sums up why I don’t work anymore.

I, personally, come down agreeing with both of you in theory, but ignoring the reality is what gets us into spots where we launch hatred and vile toward companies that are not going to change.

Frankly, for smaller indies and such places like Humble, GoG, GMG etc. are almost certainly seeing this as a opportunity to potentially grab the next Stardew or ARK (which I guess is Conan now) because Steam may not be as friendly to smaller devs. And frankly I’d love to see some of the smaller storefronts get a bit more opportunity.

ceder
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ceder

Ark= Owned by Snail Games.
Conan= Owned by Funcom.

Neither are hardly “small”.

Crow
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Crow

ARK was purchased by Snail after their initial success. Conan was a make-or-break moment for Funcom. In either case, it wasn’t an argument that hinged on the small-ness of the dev team as much as a runaway hit that wasn’t necessary going to be a hit.

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agemyth 😩

Unfortunately for that argument, Humble and GMG are almost entirely Steam code sellers.

Crow
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Crow

Sure. Right now. Right now Steam also allows pretty much anything via Greenlight.

But this is simply how industry works. If Steam turns away from X, as the clear industry leader, it creates a market vacuum which will certainly be filled by another service.

Humble and GMG are almost entirely Steam keys, yes, but that doesn’t mean they can only do Steam keys. If Steam gets out of indies (for all intent and purpose) both Humble and GMG will, guaranteed, highly consider ways to grab a piece of the coveted Steam pie.

And then GoG, who would actually be the better fit IMHO if they desired to move toward newer indies (many of which are retro-esque) providing a storefront for smaller teams to employ.

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agemyth 😩

itch.io 4 lyfe

Crow
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Crow

Exactly. And I think it would benefit the market overall to see a shift here.

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agemyth 😩

Yeah, I go out of my way to buy games on GOG when they are available and aren’t reliant on Steamworks for multiplayer or something. I would always prefer a more competitive market, but before Steam there almost was no market to compete over.

Line
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Line

GOG and humblebundle already have arbitrary rules in place, refusing to work with some companies or games because it “is not in line with their customers habits” and other such bullshit.

wpDiscuz