Massively Overthinking: Mainstream misconceptions about MMORPGs

Massively OP reader Arsin Halfmoon pitched the team a great question this week, poached straight from the podcast list:

“As someone deeply invested in the MMO genre, I find our reputation as a playerbase just as important as the games we play. I’ve heard people say MMORPG stands for ‘Many Men Online Role Playing Girls’ or something derogatory. And the mainstream media loves news story about players dying from excessive MMO playing. I’ve even watched a documentary about people addicted to our genre — let’s just say that didn’t really put a good spin on us either. Overall, the media doesn’t shine a positive light on us. But I know we’re more than that. If the staff could dispel any misunderstandings about the MMO community to the mainstream, what would they be?”

I posed Arsin’s question to the staff for Overthinking this week. How does mainstream news — and mainstream gaming — get our genre wrong?

Andrew Ross (@dengarsw): Let’s start with what, statistically, the media gets right, not about the genre but the players. Online gamers play more than other gamers. We’re more engaged. Rachel Kowert’s research has shown online gamers tend to lead lonelier lives, which I didn’t believe at first until I lost my real life connections and found that my online “friends” really were just online, and saw the same with some former friends. I found that trying to meet fellow online gamers I’d spent months playing with/chatting to would disappear into thin air rather quickly.

That being said, we’re not all fat ugly slobs. There may be loneliness, but we’re far from anti-social. In fact, there was no correlation between being shy and being an online gamer. Even better, we tend to do better at cooperating on the Prisoner’s Dilemma than non-PC gamers. We are social, just in different ways.

We’re also far from mindless zombies. I’ve met some really smart, hardworking people in my MMO time. Air control operators, Hollywood digital painters, a professional chef, and a coder who is also an ordained minister. Oh, and tons of military folk who weren’t just blowing off steam but trying to organize raiding while they had free time before literally having to disappear into the wilderness for days/weeks/months at a time.

At least I think the media’s finally stopped assuming MMOs are about high scores, right?

Brianna Royce (@nbrianna, blog): It’s just punching down, part of the eternal geek war. Non-gamers punch down at shooter fans. Shooter fans punch down at RPG fans. RPG fans punch down at MMORPG fans. MMORPG fans punch down at roleplayers and MUDders. “We may be geeks, but at least we’re not as weird as those guys.” I hate that we’re part of that cycle, that we’re always trying to prove we’re more legitimate, less geeky. The reality is we all play with toys, and if you’re not playing with some sort of toys in 2017, you’re boring or old. Nobody’s toy is more legit than anybody else’s. Quit being a freaking jerk about it.

Anyway. My colleagues have hit on the big ones, so let me instead build out the “Many Men Online Role Playing Girls” rant. There’s nothing even wrong with men online roleplaying girls. The idea that this would even be an insult says way more about the insecurities of the person dishing it out than about us. Speaking as an actual woman in gaming, I find it infuriating to be erased, over and over, as someone’s cheap dig on some dude’s sexuality. And it’s not just mainstream news that does it — our own fellow MMO players do it. We’ve come such a long way… I only wish everyone could see it and embrace it instead of acting like the immature, unhealthy basement-dwellers the “mainstream” believes us to be.

Eliot Lefebvre (@Eliot_Lefebvre, blog): If there’s one thing that bugs me – and there is – it’s the fact that people misunderstand MMOs as, essentially, video games without a solid endpoint. Which is true, as far as it goes, but MMOs are really a separate hobby that still falls under the same overall header. MMOs, at the best of times, are long-standing games with lengthy projects and a sector of engagement that just doesn’t exist with other games. They are endless games; you always have a reason to go back. It’s more like a favorite restaurant or bar than just something you play until you win.

It also bugs me to no end how many people misunderstand the fundamental dynamics of online games. To some extent, this is a problem of the demographics people speak with, but the idea that MMOs are played entirely (or even predominantly) by bored white dudes living in their childhood homes isn’t even remotely accurate. Heck, even the people I’ve met who are still living in the same home as their parents aren’t in the same boat as the stereotype.

I suppose, ultimately, part of it just comes down to the idea that MMOs are seen as some particularly inaccessible subset of video games as a whole, neglecting the fact that it’s a hoppy which brings a huge number of people together at once. You may not realize it, but not realizing something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Justin Olivetti (@Sypster, blog): I think the first misunderstanding — as with any large group of people — is that we are easily pigeon-holed into simple and homogeneous definitions. The pool of MMO gamers is wide and deep, filled with wonderful people and raging jerks, scamming economists and detail-oriented roleplayers. Also, Larry. So let’s all be a little bit more mature than the people who like to over-generalize and resist the temptation to do just that.

What really gets my goat is how certain game journalism outlets (not naming names here, but a few definitely come to mind) have a very clear bias against MMORPGs and the people who play them. We see this in eagerly published stories that put our community in a bad light and in the tone of the articles that insult us by association (think, “How could anyone POSSIBLY like these crappy mechanics and dated games?”).

We as MMO players have a point of commonality that binds us together and gives us a mutual starting point to forming relationships across our various cultural, religious, political, gender, and geeky divides. It’s a community without borders and one that is endlessly fascinating for me to meet and explore.

MJ Guthrie (@MJ_Guthrie, blog): The myth and misrepresentation that I would like to dispel is that MMO players can be characterized by anything other than the fact that they play MMOs. It riles me to no end when people — media or anyone else — use some characteristic as if an explanation for action, such as Irish bomber, Catholic thief, or whatever. It is trying to link race, religion, game preference, etc to some negative action in people’s minds as if said trait explains said action. It is a practice I LOATHE. Not that it is a comfort, but the media targets plenty of groups in this manner, not just the MMO world. Some people also tend fear and demonize what is unfamiliar, what they don’t understand (man, I wish there was an easy fix for that), and media capitalizes on that fact. Sensationalizing things sells: If people would stop buying into this practice, it would stop selling and maybe it could begin to change.

MMO players are a very diverse group of folks, and in every group of folks there are good and bad, extraordinary and vile. I’ve run across all types. Will we ever be seen as just people, with our myriad of differences, who just happen to play MMO games? When the world stops categorizing everything, we might. Until then, I take the same stance I would in this situation for every group — trumpeting all the good that comes from folks and doing my best to model that individuals are just that, individuals, who should be seen for their actions, not their race, color, religion, etc.

Your turn!

SHARE THIS ARTICLE
Code of Conduct | Edit Your Profile | Commenting FAQ | Badge Reclamation | Badge Key

LEAVE A COMMENT

39 Comments on "Massively Overthinking: Mainstream misconceptions about MMORPGs"

Subscribe to:
Sort by:   newest | oldest | most liked
Reader
Suikoden

This has been a critical issue of the genre since the beginning. From the very concept of hanging out with your friends in a virtual world, versus what mainstream media calls the “real world.” Something most people have to keep a secret in the corporate world because ignorant people would stigmatize them. You ever find out someone else in your workplace plays MMOS? It’s like you are both coming out of the closet or something. It’s ridiculous, but true. I do think however, that some IPs are more accepted. For example, I think Star Wars and World of Tanks are more accepted IPs by the ignorant corporate masses, than say, Neverwinter or World of Warcraft. But it’s a damn shame, because if you are in a top tier raiding group, or a successful raid leader or guild leader, you should be able to put that on your resume!

Reader
Droniac

MMOs, at the best of times, are long-standing games with lengthy projects and a sector of engagement that just doesn’t exist with other games. They are endless games; you always have a reason to go back

That’s just a false stereotype of the “positive” variety.

There are plenty of long-standing games that aren’t MMOs and have seen similar, or greater, levels of support and engagement. Take a look at games like Team Fortress 2, MineCraft, Crusader Kings 2, League of Legends, Path of Exile, Warframe, Terraria, RoboCraft, Garry’s Mod, etc.

The notion that MMOs are endless is – with exception of open-ended MMOs like EVE and Perpetuum – just window-dressing. The same world may be around without loading a new game or resetting, but given the fact that MMO worlds are often utterly static… is that truly at all relevant? It’s essentially no different from loading a save file in a singleplayer game. You load your MMO up and enter… exactly the same place, with exactly the same things going on. The only times things change (in most MMOs) is when developers update the game!

The bulk of what you do in (themepark) MMOs consists of one-off content (quests and leveling) and repeatable sessions (instances, raids, PvP). The one-off content is usually of the variety of do it once and you’ve seen everything, i.e.: exceptionally poor replay value. The repeatable sessions tend to be decently executed, but not much different from regular multiplayer games. The one true difference is usually just replacing the static multiplayer lobby with a static game world.

That value in returning is therefore not always present. Once you’ve seen the one-off content and done the session-play a few times there’s literally nothing new to experience until the next update, in most MMOs. The same is not necessarily true for other games. I can start over in The Witcher, make different choices and have very different experiences. I can start a new game of Europa Universalis 4, with the exact same starting conditions, trying to achieve the same end result and have a completely different experience, even mechanically, from start to finish. And so on…

I’d argue that (4X/Grand) strategy, roguelike, simulation and space-sim genres tend to be better examples of endless games than most MMOs. Not only do they tend to offer immense experiences off the bat, but they’re mechanics-driven, not content-driven the way MMOs tend to be. Even if you’ve seen all the content in Crusader Kings 2 / Binding of Isaac / Cities: Skylines / X3: Reunion, the next play experience can (and more than likely will) still be vastly different and “fresh”. That’s not something that can truly be said for most MMOs.

Reader
Arsin Halfmoon

Thanks so much for all the insight everyone. The discussion came up recently because of the recent death of the Twitch streamer. It got me thinking and reading old those news stories about MMO players and the general gaming community. And some of those comments people put out there were pretty scathing. But yeah, many of you are right, the misunderstandings will always come up, but hey, as the saying goes, “The games the thing”

Reader
Melissa McDonald

“Speaking as an actual woman in gaming, I find it infuriating to be erased, over and over, as someone’s cheap dig on some dude’s sexuality”
I have to applaud this. I know women who play online games as guy characters just so they won’t have guy characters hitting on them. I haven’t ever done that, my love for playing digital Barbie dolls supersedes those considerations. But I have had my fair share of being challenged to ‘prove my identity’, i.e., “skype or your a guy” (SIC for accuracy lol). So that’s just another kind of sexual harassment.

Reader
Bryan Correll

Screenshot or it didn’t happen! j/k

Reader
J. J. Sándor

Is this really a thing, or just an urban legend? I play girls almost exclusively (girls to guys ratio among my characters is about 10:1) and I never ever got “hit on”. Not even in Goldshire. Yes, there used to be a couple of whispers inquiring “m/f?” – to which I would reply either “that’s for me to know and for you to guess” or “if I told you, I’d have to kill you” – but that was back in 2007. Nowadays, nobody’s asking anymore.

Reader
Loyal Patron
imayb1

It’s really a thing. It doesn’t happen daily, but it’s definitely there.

Reader
Bryan Correll

I’ve been hit on a few times playing female characters, but not terribly often. I make it my practice to not care about the gender* of other players since I’m not looking for dates in MMO’s.
* I do get irritated when someone feels the need to repeatedly announce “I’m a girl. I’m the girliest girl ever! Aren’t you amazed a girl is playing? I’d love to have some help from big strong guys!” Ugh.

Reader
Schmidt.Capela

When does the mainstream media gets anything niche right? I have a number of niche interests, and barring the lucky happenstance of a journalist sharing the same niche interest, coverage of any of them in the mainstream media is painful to watch.

This is part of the reason specialized media exists. It’s not just about covering more of what the specialized media focus on, but also about having journalists that actually understand what they are covering.

deekay_plus
Reader
deekay_plus

it’s been such a long time since i’ve seen non mmo playing people talking about mmo players either news media or other wise that i’m drawing a blank. most of what the submitter wrote are things mmo players say about each other more than what non mmo playing people say about us.

i will say that it’s become hip especially by reporters and politicians (often to deflect from their own shitty behaviour) to trash talk gamers. to reduce us to subhuman garbage and a singular race and gender and claim we hate women or are especially violent or w/e. when all statistics are to the contrary to those claims.

ultimately gamers are a fairly diverse bunch that are perhaps slightly more ill mannered than the average internet denizen (and if you need evidence of this you need only go on the average facebook news out let post for people posting pretty nasty shit under their full real names and pictures – so no it’s not anonymity run amok either) who continue to be treated rather poorly by those that seek to profit off them wether in the press or streamers or vloggers or game makers or even amongst themselves.

much like any other pop subculture group out there. wow, whoda thunk.

Reader
MesaSage

Well, this is easy. First of all, I don’t pay attention to mainstream media. With that in mind, I couldn’t care less about what they’re saying about us, or what the people who watch them think.

Reader
Rick Mills

One of my favorite guilds back in the BC days of Wow consisted of a published research scientist, a sociology major, a programmer, a military corporal and a stand-up comedian – we had a “poker-night” raid that was all about the fun and believe me – it was fun,

Reader
Denice J. Cook

All one has to do is remember the story of Ribbit Ribbit, a child stricken with cancer, whose one dying wish was to have a guild hall in Everquest 2 to run his character around in.

Capped end-game characters swarmed his server, Guk, from every other one, power leveling a guild called Lillipad Jungle 24/7 until Ribbit Ribbit had his new hall (I seem to remember SOE opening up free server transfers for it, but it was several years ago now). He only lived a short while after that, but his mother posted on the forums about how happy all these good-hearted EQ2 players had made her son in his final days.

“The news” tends to focus on whatever will get them the most views/hits, and this typically involves the most negative thing they can find to report upon.

Crow
Reader
Crow

When I was a kid, right after graduating from high school, I got involved with an amazing FLGS and was told a story about one of the owner’s after-hours D&D games. It was an “older” crowd with about 5 players who were in their mid-to-late 30s and some quite older.

One night the store was closed but the grate was never put down. They were set up in the middle of the floor getting a little silly and rolling dice like mad when some knuckledragger opens the door, yells, “Go back to flipping burgers at McDonalds!”

I was told the whole table erupted in laughter. One of the players was a physicist. Another owned an entire contracting firm. The owner couldn’t keep from exploding in laughter as he said, “I don’t think anyone at the table (except me) made less than six-figures…”

Reader
Apollymi

Lots of good points here. And we all know the media’s mantra concerning negative news for anything, “If it bleeds, it leads”. Anything can be taken to excess and its up to us to be sure we aren’t one of those excessive obsessives.

Anyway, I think voice chat systems have much to do with the negativity women face when gaming. Why does anyone need to know what gender I am when playing a role playing game. Most of the characters I have enjoyed playing the most have been male. The most fun I had when playing SWTOR was with a new guild before KOTFE dropped. I was a big, bad male jedi and had lots of fun running guildies and whoever would ask through to FP or just whatever needed doing. Then right after we got our guild stronghold, we had a party and they all convinced me to get on the voice chat. Don’t remember what it was. As soon as I said something they were like, “Who’s that?” And I told them, and things just weren’t the same after that. Had lots of sly, nasty /tells and nobody wanted run throughs any more. Whatever. So yeah, we may have earned our rep for that point.

Reader
Scrungle

Main stream media being negative on something they don’t understand?! SHOCKER!

Reader
Loyal Patron
imayb1

I’m with you, Bree. The whole, “… be[ing] erased, over and over, as someone’s cheap dig on some dude’s sexuality” is galling. The belligerent ascertain of some people that no females play video games– of any sort– is just attempting to perpetuate the stereotype of a boys’ club. I think that perception changing a little but I wish I could just wipe away that preconceived notion on the part of the public.

In general, I’ve been playing D&D and tabletop RPGs for a couple of decades+ and I’ve seen a lot of the same stereotypes applied there. The only adult guy I knew who ‘lived in his mother’s basement’ was a very successful man, bought the house for her, and lived there to care for her.

Personally, I think that the type of person who is attracted to MMOs would set him- or herself apart, living a ‘lonlier’ life than average even if MMOs didn’t exist. I suspect we are people who have preferences for aspects of socialization that coincide with MMO playing. I believe this is our chosen hobby because it suits us, not because we’re lonely degenerates who have nothing better to do and so get unwillingly sucked into it. Pfft.

Reader
Fenryr Grey

In my opinion this classification of a person is a bit stale (like in most cases anyway) people are too complex to just break it down to a single characteristic, but I understand that some people need some beacons so they can identify with something and create the “we against the others” feeling. This said I still think it’s just primitive. Why should I feel anything, besides empathize with his or her relatives, when he or she died because playing too much MMORPGs? It’s like feeling more with people who eat bread just because it happens that you also eat bread on daily basis. I’ve been seeing this a lot people just denounce a whole “community” (people who like “x” and people that do “y”) because they disagreed with someone who he/she perceived as a member of that group, completely disregarding that others of the same “community” would totally agreeing with him or her. (often also seen in game forums after an update). I’d recommend not to engage in such a silly conversation or even better not even identify yourself as a “MMO player” and just do what you like without a pack mentality.

Reader
Utakata

Got a feeling there’s a lot of folks out there who feel fairly intimidated in what we do…and spend many a precious time reiterating the same stereotypes and strawmen in the catchy soundbites. I wonder though if it’s more a reflection of what they are as opposed to what we are. Or even jealousy that we’ve received some degree of satisfaction in what we do. For the only thing that they say is true of me (as I can’t speak for others here) ,is that I am lonely in baseline reality. But where they’re incorrect even on that is that it doesn’t really bother me. Not in the least.

Reader
J. J. Sándor

Twenty years ago, the same kind of people said the same thing about internet. It’s just the basic “fear what you don’t understand, destroy what you can’t control” instinct everybody is born with.
When affordable virtual reality rigs become a thing, MMOs will turn into mainstream form of entertainment… and we’re gonna have a huge advantage over all those newbies. ;)

Reader
life_isnt_just_dank_memes

My opinion of us as a group changes based on what i see in the chat window of the MMO im playing currently or in the comment section here. thankfully, this crew is pretty dope!

Reader
John Mclain

“I’ve heard people say MMORPG stands for ‘Many Men Online Role Playing Girls’ or something derogatory.”

As a mmo player for the past decade or so, thats… not technically inaccurate. It is “mostly” men and for some creepy reason they mostly play female avatars when available. (Then try and explain it away in some pitiful attempt like “I prefer to watch a female’s rear end all day.” Which kinda falls flat when they are playing a first person mmo.

Reader
Utakata

Better “creepy” than them being creepers I guess.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Patreon Donor
BalsBigBrother

Why is it creepy? If they want to play a female character, male or an androgynous entity then that is their choice to make they do not have to explain it to you or anyone else.

pepperzine
Reader
pepperzine

The no harm principle definitely applies, when it comes to games play as whatever you want. Nor do you have to explain it to anyone. But if you choose to explain it, you can’t be upset if someone else thinks your logic is creepy. Playing as whatever you want has nothing to do with whether someone else perceives it as creepy or not. Creepy is defined as “causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease.” I can understand why someone sexualizing their player character can make someone else feel uneasy.

This is not to be confused with me saying I think people need to conform to gender identity or anything political, because that is in complete opposition to how I feel on that subject. These, however, for the most part, are not men playing a female character because they identify as female or want to actually roleplay a female, but more so men who are playing females because they are sexualizing their player character. To me, that can come off as creepy, especially when they openly frame it in that context.

pepperzine
Reader
pepperzine

Have to agree on this one. Though anecdotal at best, at least 4 out of 5 female player characters I run into are actually male. That’s not to say there aren’t women playing mmorpgs or that they are for men, only that there are a ton of men playing female characters.

Reader
Patreon Donor
Veldan

Yeah people who explain it that way definitely seem creepy. I myself often play female characters just for RP reasons. I actually dislike it if they’re too naked or oversexualized, that makes me more likely to choose a male character. If I wanted to see naked females, there are, uhm, enough places on the internet where I can. When I choose to play a female character, it’s not about that.

Reader
Schmidt.Capela

It is often that for me, within certain parameters; I usually prefer to look at the available female characters than at the male ones.

Has a lot to do with my preferences for aesthetics. I don’t like the beefcake look, neither for males nor for females; I prefer slimmer, lithe characters. That choice is often unavailable for males (as devs seem to think everyone wants to play a Conan wannabe), but is often available for females.

(For what it’s worth, I also dislike the oversexualized, big breasted female body model so often used; I love when a breast slider exists, so I can pull it way down, which usually results in breasts that are still on the large side but at least within the realm of possibility without breast augmentation surgery.)

PurpleCopper
Reader
PurpleCopper

Mainstreamers have a hard time understanding MMOs? Hardcore MMO players have a hard time understanding what a MMO is.

Hell, even I don’t know what a MMO is supposed to be.

If even veterans have misconceptions of what a MMO is, why makes you think newbies can understand MMOs as well?

possum440 .
Reader
possum440 .

The biggest misconception is that gamer’s have choice in an MMO. Developers train and brainwash gamer’s through developer game mechanics and automation/rote actions.

Developers have been leading gamer’s around by the nose for well over a decade now telling players how they will play and how they will think.

Here are several developer created case in points of programmed gamer’s.

1. A good portion of gamer’s think that an MMO type game means that others must socialize and participate in group activities or be forever branded as non social solo baddies.
2. Gamer’s have been brainwashed to think that another gamer getting some loot any other way except the way they get it is a crime and the other persons should be burned at the stake, branded and scorned.
3. Gamer’s have been brainwashed to think that doing the same thing over and over for a piece of loot is…….”fun”. I call it insanity, and automation for the developers.
4. Gamer’s have been brainwashed into to thinking that time invested is far more important than fun. That time invested makes them better than any other gamer.
5. Gamers have been brainwashed and forced into thinking the “holy trinity”, healers, damage dealers, tanks, are the ONLY way a game should be played.

The big misconception is that you, the gamer has any choice on how you play any of today’s MMO’s. You have no choice. You will play the way developers have carefully taught you to play and you will continue to judge others because of it.

Reader
Wordup Cameo

Sorry, but I have a choice, and I would quit a game if I hadn’t.

It’s no misconception that a lot of MMO players especially in the high skill area have a lot of excuses for their anti-social behavior. The biggest misconception is that you have to be anti-social in order to have success for real. This is what a lot of people drive out of games they’d normally enjoy.

Another misconception is that MMOs are all about getting loot, and working on it is the punishment. Please stop doing things you’re not enjoying ! And please stop complaining about what you have to do for it ! It’s the doing that makes you special, not the excuses for not doing. It’s your fault if you feel bad about not having things you need to work for.

And it’s your fault if you lack the creativity to play a game in a different way.

Reader
Bryan Correll

Gamers are brainwashed and don’t have a choice? I for one am not a lemming.* If a specific game doesn’t allow me to play the way I wish I can choose not to play said game. Hell, right now I’m not actively playing any MMO’s at all (unless you want to count Path of Exile as one for some reason.) There are upcoming games (ok, mostly Camelot Unchained) that I’m looking forward to, but there’s nothing I feel compelled to play. Which isn’t to say there aren’t any ‘good’ games. There are games out there that I have played and enjoyed but I never play a game with the expectation that it will hold my interest forever and always.

* Of course, lemmings aren’t really ‘lemmings’ in that sense either.

Reader
Patreon Donor
Schlag Sweetleaf

How did you make that link, good sir?

Reader
Utakata

I think he may have used the “LINK” button right of the “B-QUOTE” button on your commenting UI box. I would demonstrate this in animation…but alas you are expert in this field, where I am not. :(

Reader
Bryan Correll

The pink one is correct. If you use the ‘link’ button it displays whatever you type immediately after the address into the clickable link. I actually stumbled on to it by accident.

Reader
Utakata

Edit/Erratum: I should of said *left of the “B-QUOTE” button though. My bad. :(

Reader
Patreon Donor
Schlag Sweetleaf
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

*dons gatekeeping hate*

Noooooo, we don’t want “normies” in our genre! We were here first, and we need to keep it walled off from everyone else! Propagate these stories and let them scare off the casuals, MMORPG’s are for the true hardcore!

*takes hat off*

Whoa, that was strange.

Honestly…at this point I’m way past caring about mainstream understanding or acceptance of MMO’s, or gaming in general (gaming has been in a bit of a weird place where it’s absolutely mainstream as hell…but still comes with a lot of the 90’s era-fearmongering baggage for some reason). Part of it is the fact that the places where mainstream news media looks for gaming information – the bigger sites like IGN/Polygon/Kotaku/GameSpot etc. – are all bloody awful when it comes to MMO coverage. Seriously, non-MMO media trying to cover MMO’s is usually pretty painful to read. So by extension, their own poor coverage, and often times dismissal and negativity, gets amplified by mainstream press that have even less of an inclination to dig beyond the very surface of a story (say, someone dying in a PC bang after a 50 hour marathon session due to deep vein thrombosis).

If I could dispell one myth/misconception though…man… Folks need to learn what the trinity is. Father, son, holy ghost? Naw dog, tank/healer/dps. That’s some real life lesson shit, there.

Reader
Utakata

We have Gnomies instead. <3

wpDiscuz