Star Citizen’s 3.0 to ‘simulate a first-person universe with almost no limits’

As Star Citizen players are still grappling with the recently revealed development schedule, Chris Roberts has swooped in to provide some context and explanation for the roadmap. He said that the early summer jump to the alpha 3.0 build of the game will greatly expand on what Star Citizen can do and offer. The June update will contain a trio of moons to explore and the possibility of a large asteroid as well.

“When you see a planet or moon, you will be able to fly there, land and explore on foot, or from your ship or a ground vehicle you have brought with you. All seamlessly, all with the incredible first person detail that Star Citizen is known for,” Roberts said. “With this we are delivering something that goes way beyond the initial promises and conception of Star Citizen; we will be simulating a first-person universe with almost no limits.”

If Roberts’ letter isn’t enough to sate your need for information, there’s also the new monthly studio report to absorb. We’ve got it for you below, so watch now and thank us later!

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336 Comments on "Star Citizen’s 3.0 to ‘simulate a first-person universe with almost no limits’"

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NovaScotiaCitizen

3.0 will be the best thing since the invention of sliced bread. Going to take a vacation when this is ready for download

Reader
Melissa McDonald

I was really surprised to find that Uninstalling Star Citizen left a 19GB file in a Cloud Imperium Games folder on my C drive.
That’s just bad coding, man.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Guys from Reddit (credits to Panicy + Sam00197) made a more readable chart here: https://imgur.com/a/7ssqB
Another nice JPEG will say some (joke inside :))

SQ42 schedule have been told to be released later, in 2017 I guess as there is no point announcing a schedule 6 months before it is provided. That will please all looking for more transparency. Also ATV’s are giving us much more insight since January, which is quite nice and informative.

Reader
Humble DG

I feel that Star Citizen articles can now be considered comment section testing tools.

I have many gripes about SC, but most of them have already been discussed, so there’s no point. My only observation right now is that I feel Elite Dangerous is progressing in a such a manner that when SC is released, ED will be probably at the same place. They’re literally adding a lot of the same features, just over time rather than a single bulk release.

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NovaScotiaCitizen

ED is 2013 leftover trash. It’s been “out” for 4 years and they have added nothing but low level junk features that were easy to patch in while asking for update money, doing stupid console ports and adding cash shop knick knack. ED is an embarrassing disappointment alltogether.

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Humble DG

Yeah, I’m going to totally disagree on that statement. It’s hardly trash and I wouldn’t agree at all that they only did low level features over the past 4 years. It’s not the greatest game ever but it definitely has some incredible elements for a space simulator game and has incredible experiences, especially when playing through VR. As a VR game, I would put it on a top 10 list as far emersion goes.

Solaris
Reader
Solaris

I kind of doubt that (I play ED), at least not to the degree that SC is striving for. Not sure how much you have played of SC, but walking around, exploring derelict space stations, has been around a for quite awhile and is nearing a state that it feels very much near a final product (for that aspect of the game). With planetside exploration coming very soon, that will greatly expand content. I am not sure ED will achieve that same level of interactive environment that SC will. I do think ED has kicked ass with it’s stealth storylines (the discovery of alien civilization). That was a remarkable achievement and one of the best I’ve experienced in gaming.

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Humble DG

It was a half joke but also somewhat a real thought. I’m getting the vibe that SC will have a lot more features when said and done, but ED is moving the game along. I’m just curious if ED is actually going to go FPS mode in the future.

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Joe Blobers

I do not think they have the cash for that and to do it well, as good as SC. Nevertheless I am also a backer of ED and I hope they deliver more and as much as SC because Braben do make space game not equivalent of Wing Commander or Star Wars and diversity is good fo players :)

Reader
Wendigo Runner

I figure SC will release around the same time that ED gets atmospheric planets and space legs.

lol

(for those who don’t know, that’s never going to happen but the true believers will insist it’s totally happening… some day.. maybe like 10 years from now but some day)

Reader
Jonny Sage

Any game that can generate this much drama is bound to be good. Take EVE for example. Personally im enjoying SC. $40, playable space sim, amazing graphics. Detailed mechanics. If this is only part of the way there, the final sim will be evolutionary.

Reader
Joe Blobers

EVE is now free to play. I tried it twice in 3 years… Clearly concept of EVE is not for me but it please many and it is good.
As a backer of ED (with lifetime free patch) I get the sense of 100’s hours I spent on all past Elite version, with of course much better graphics and deep feeling of… empty space. Their incremental approach perfectly fit their project developement as it is not based on Kickstarter model.

Squadron 42 is the successor or the critically acclaimed Wing Commander, made by the same man, with an even stronger backbone with his brother Ervin and many talented artists and team leaders. SC (MMO) being the cherry on the cake…. And we are now very close (translate a 12 months and few quarters away, at worst, from SQ42 Chapter 1 and Beta of SC) with many challenging patch, both for the team ancd backers who have the chance to help make this project a tangible reality.
The all project is financiary healthy and will be strengthen even more with flow of SQ42 new players and people on the fence, who prefer to get a finished product rather than participate from day one.

I am proud to build something together with +500.000 backers. Building is much more difficult than destroying. That is my way of life and it looks like we are a few (joke inside) with enough education and experience to separate the wheat from the chaff :)

Reader
Joe Blobers

To Readers some of my comments that was providing a link to specific posts of my blog dedicated to deciphers toxic action made by an handful of guys have been removed. That is find and I respect that as it seems to hurt Massyvelyop policy as said by Bree.

However, and the new post made by Tufao here below, is part of this handfull guys, does prove one thing. Some (10 guyes at best versus +500.000 backers) are using scam, false advertising, deceptive claim but they can indeed repeat it at their leisure… that does not change the fact this game is going to be done and that all prophecies of Doom have already been proven false… :)
In short.. everything is fine and those who want to take the time to go to Youtube can find many proof of what backers are sharing, with more to come in the next quarters as CIG did finalized major pipelines.

As the title of article said: Star Citizen’s 3.0 to ‘simulate a first-person universe with almost no limits’

edangerous
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edangerous

How about letting the game speak for itself.

It really does not need shouty people shouting at other shouty people, I’d imagine your typical reader’s eyes just glaze over at all this nonsense. Whiteknights and their counterparts are a pox on gaming.

chachwagon
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chachwagon

“using scam, false advertising, deceptive claim but they can indeed repeat it at their leisure”

Could not agree more with this. I’m getting tired of CIG continuing to promise that things will be released then bait and switch ship sales and skins, clothes, etc. It’s a disgrace. They are truly using deceptive practices to make money off of unsuspecting backers. I’m glad you are raising awareness about this.

I totally agree CIG is saying they are about to release some amazing new thing, which turns out to be more delays and then 5% of the promised content. Good thing r/starcitizen_refunds exists. It’s not too late for players to back out.

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Joe Blobers

Your call man. Awarness is good as long the ones doing so are right :) If you are a backer and want a refund go ahead, do not feel seek because you think that possibly +500.000 people are wrong.
If you are not a backer… you can still wait another year and check out this site for news and Youtube for even more detailed in game video.

chachwagon
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chachwagon

Totally agree with this. I’m not suggesting everyone get a refund. It’s crucial that there are some people left contributing to the game while others get their money out. If they stop development or slow down even more, getting a refund will be practically impossible.

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Joe Blobers

Do not get me wrong. I am not suggesting that any one request refund. Rather said that if you are a true kicstarter contributor, you must select carefully projects. I did backe 3 in total including SC. I pledged to SC because I had not doubt and know the man behind, and still have zero doubt (indeed quite the opposite) about a release in mid-2018 of SQ42 Chapter 1 and major patch in 2017 for SC.

Indeed I will add a few more dollars as soon 3.0 is out (end of June) rather that buy another EA or Ubisoft copy/paste games.
Before the end of the week-end or even Saturday 22d of April, 147M$ will be reached. CIG is stronger than ever financially and have all pipelines aligned to deliver.
I never lesson twistted mind people with an agenda. Ever. Especially those with a proven dedication to destroy others and not delivering any of their own projects. Such behavior keep helping me to healthy projects choice of many kind all along my life :)

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dsmart

Clearly you ignored Bree’s post. I can help you with that.

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ps: take your vendetta back to Reddit, man. Nobody here cares.

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Joe Blobers

DS… everybody know you except a few. It is not because some comments have been removed that conclusion are wrong. And you are definitively not what you pretend to be :)
Keep Code of Conduct in Mod’s hands… you are not.

… But the most important: Squadron 42 and Star Citizen will be released within the next year for Squadron 42 Chapter 1 and Star Citizen in Beta during 2018. That is best answer to your false “explanations”.

Note: by the way, you realize that some of yours comments have be removed as well :) Keep your vendetta back to your blog man :)

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dsmart

You’re new to this? When a comment gets removed, any response (e.g. mine and others) also gets removed, or the context is lost.

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Joe Blobers

DS… you are even slower…. Check the thread and you can see that some of my comments have been removed and not those I replied to…. again you missed it :)
Not hard for anyone to get who is who with google…

Reader
Tufao

I will believe in his good faith, etc, as soon as he stops this stupid business model based on lies and deception, which makes all this project nothing more than a consumer scam, regardless if ‘some’ game comes out.
Stop to lie to people, making impossible promises. Stop this SCAMdalous ship sales scheme.
Then… I will believe in the good faith of whatever he says and that is not just another false advertising/deceptive claim to sell JPEG’s and post-pone this thing for longer and longer, while becoming richer with more monthly salaries/bonus to get than he would, if delivering a practical game, delivering more value to their backers and accomplishing with what he promised in the first place.
Just calculate how much money he and his associates made, personally, doing this show by 5+ years and receiving their monthly salaries/yearly bonuses vs. delivering the game that was promised (and that would be much more value to their backers/consumers and for the game industry) in just two years. So, yeah! The reason to keep the show going on and no game delivered has been obvious for a while now.
Gamers, press and game industry shouldn’t accept that everything is ok, just because ‘at least something was or will be delivered’ and ‘some fans are happy’, while its obvious that what they did deceived many/many consumers and has the potential to deceive more, burning people, and making them more disappointed and believing less in things like indie development, crowdfunding and games in general.
Star Citizen has been a fail because his dev fails to deliver what he makes people believe that will be delivered. Always delivering less than hyped and totally broken. And this same dev still dare to criticize the publisher business model, which is very bad indeed sometimes, but definitely, can’t be saved or fixed by something so many times worst like the way that they are financing/producing this game. Of course, what they say is more religious talking, considering that we have great independent/published games out there, so as we have some fails. And no matter how Roberts tries to hide himself behind speech, the fact remains that SC has been a fail and he has been failing again and again to deliver what he promised in the first place, only showing, after 6 years that SC started in his mind, that he still has no idea in how to finish his game, specially with the promises made when the crowdfunding campaign was opened.
And Roberts won’t admit something that is clear as water. That he is in an extreme debt with his backers. All that he does is to pretend that everything is ok, and putting the guilty of his fails in everyone else, partners, devs of his team, goons, Derek Smart, press, even the backers, but himself.
This all is not what ‘crowdfunding’ means, like these devs and some fans like to repeat to people. This is how scammers use crowdfunding to make more money that they should or at least deserve and still escape justice, while letting a big damage to many areas of the game industry behind.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

Folks, please refer to our commenting policy. Spamming is not OK, no matter what you’re spamming. And please don’t take troll bait.

Yangers
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Kickstarter Donor
Yangers

I fully expect Jesus to arrive before this game does.

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Melissa McDonald

we should all be hoping so.
“it doesn’t end here. The grey curtail of this world rolls back. and then you see it… white shores, followed by a far green country, under a swift sunrise.” “Doesn’t sound that bad.” “No, it isn’t”. :)

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GoJammit

“With this we are delivering something that goes way beyond the initial promises and conception of Star Citizen”
Really would rather you just focus on the things promised. I’ve been pretty patient, and I will continue to be, but I think I need someone in the know, someone who follows closely to tell me what the hold up is on the single player game. What’s the stumbling blocks preventing me from seeing a complation to the work I saw two years ago?

edangerous
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edangerous

Hearing some more about squadron 42 would be much appreciated. I was really hoping it would be out by now or at the very least have a firm release date.

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Space Captain Zor

I believe last year’s “go or no-go” video on the Squadron 42 level demo decision cited the largest issue/blocker being problems with the Subsumption(AI)-powered procedural animation system for all the NPC characters. That would be the driving force behind making all the NPC characters seem truly alive and not just running off scripted events as you walk around.

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dsmart

Nobody move! I got this! :)

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Joe Blobers
edangerous
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edangerous

This is really not helping, you’re spamming the comment section and making it look like he is causing a reaction which is precisely what he wants.

Just ignore the self-aggrandizing troll.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Believe it or not, some Readers are still not aware of the guy toxicity. That is why I made this blog. A quick copy/paste of link and readers can make then own opinion. Leave alone comments sections to such clown behavior is not healthy either.
Trust me what he want his visibility by pretending he is better than others… this blog just pinpoint that in no case he is, far to be in fact the exact opposite :) … and he does not like that, at all even if he pretend not to care about :)

… beside that Edangerous did you noticed you are “liked” by some very well known anti-SC trolls? Clearly you tell me I spam but what did the Master Toll? I did replied to each of his lies with links to his multi times proven fallacies.
And I am here to stay you can trust me. He won’t give up nor me… and Readers will be able to read both comments and make their own opinion :)

edangerous
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edangerous

Great, that just what we need…. 2 spammers spamming links to their forums all in the “service of the community”…

If there is anybody that has not heard of Smart’s crusade against Star Citizen they must have been living on the moon these last few years.

Reader
GoJammit

Typical mode would be for me to take everything and anything you say with a grain of salt because I am pretty sure you are biased again Roberts. But I will actually be open minded and read this later, as I need to get to the gym.

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dsmart

You’re pretty sure that I’m biased? Gee! Whatever gave you that idea? Do share.

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Lethality

A certain histrionic troll was absolutely owned in this thread. Reality bites, huh?

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Joe Blobers
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Jonathan Hofwijks

Really? Ever since Chris Roberts announced this game you have been dogging him. Take a step back and watch the progress who knows you will learn a thing or two and be able to finish your own projects and actually make some hits like CR.

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BDJ
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dsmart
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Joe Blobers
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Jonathan Hofwijks
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BDJ

Regardless of what you think, facts are facts. Star Citizen is continuously progressing. It might not be at the pace you think it should, but it is. Everytime I log in, I see new things. Every…single…time.

You are here [saying] vaporware and scam all because they aren’t adhering to an estimated timeline. The game could come out in 2022 and it will still look as good, if not better, than any game of its kind out. Thats saying something.

(Comment edited by mod.)

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Chris Clark

I think that’s actually the problem many people have. The game is continuously progressing…. and progressing…and progressing, and it doesn’t seem like it will ever stop…….

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Space Captain Zor

The problem “many people” have is they’re simply impatient and they think 5-7 years is too long to make a game. This is a problem with a solution, however, if only these “many people” would choose to be informed on what CIG is working through to realize all these lofty goals. If you consume all the information they’ve released on the challenges they’ve faced, many of which are very self imposed, and still face not only on the human resources front but in research and development to pound that game engine into something that can do what they expect of it, I think you’d have a far easier time coping with the wait. Then there’s the blissful ignorance in not knowing just how long all those games in your Steam library actually took to make. Man that would be eye opening if it were a bullet point on the store pages.

Remember, these days people choose their facts. We’re no longer an informed culture.

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dsmart

No, that’s not saying anything other than wishful thinking.

I am not the one screaming vaporware. You must be thinking of Wired, who have predicted vaporware games with outstanding accuracy for years now. They added Star Citizen to their official list last year. Did you miss it?

ps: It’s hilarious that you think my age has anything to do with my use of socially acceptable terminology. Again, ad homimems are for the weak minded. Stay focused.

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Joe Blobers
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Chris Clark

Ell. Ohh. Ell! I guess this means we’re looking at a 2022 launch now.

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Space Captain Zor

Just think, there will be 6 more Star Wars movies to watch between now and then.

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Dividion

And each one will probably cost more that Star Citizen to produce.
(Force Awakens had a budget of $306m. Rogue One had a budget of $200m.)

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dsmart

I just wanted to say…
I TOLD YOU SO! Oh, and don’t forget to discuss the merits of what I posted; because, as has been proven time and time again, attacking me isn’t going to faze me, nor is it going to make Star Citizen any less of a scam, nor a “game”

I believe that, by all accounts, it’s a full on scam now, and an unmitigated disaster at this point.

These last few months are the final money grab before the final collapse comes. This 3.0 schedule, which I wrote extensively about here, in which they have about 1 year of work crammed into 2.5 months is clear evidence of this.

And any developer or project manager looking at that “schedule” (Baby’s first Gant chart) and thinks “yeah, looks good, lets go with it!”) is an incompetent fool who is probably out of work.

By Roberts’ own submission, the project is “stale”, and now dead. The Mitanni interviewed Chris Roberts on 10/19/2012. He CLEARLY said they were 1yr into the project then. So 2017 is year 6. So, 4 yrs late (delivery date was 11/2014). This 3.0 schedule puts it in 2018 (year 7) with barely 25% of what was promised, and not even 1 of 100 systems built by then.

comment image

Never in the history of gaming, has a game – any game – had this much controversy and delay, then resulted in either an actual game being released, or one that was released and met the expectations of the many. The problem with this, and the reason that I got involved in the first place – and at which point they declared war – is that this is all front-loaded gamer money. They’re selling ship assets which are neither built, nor in the game. Some of the ones that are in the game are either flat out broken, or missing functionality (cargo, mining etc) that makes them worth having. As I wrote here, this is after breaking literally every single promise they’ve made to backers since day one.

They’ve had 6 years + $146 million (back when I wrote my first July 2015 blog, I said that a competent team couldn’t build the game envisioned for anything less than $150m). Here we are; almost two years later and they still don’t even have 15% of the game promised back in 2012. And they’ve already blown through over $150 million if you take into account the investor money and loans that we know about.

Not forgetting the fact that, as I wrote in my latest blog, the creators and lead execs in this project, have been involved in various legal shenanigans related to the total loss of investor money, money laundering etc. In my opinion, this project too, in the coming months, will suffer the same fate of a total loss of backer money. Then everyone will be writing polarized tomes with premises like i) how could this happen? ii) we totally saw this coming! iii) at least he tried

And now that they have closed (we have it all archived for posterity and evidence) the official 6 year old forums and moved everyone to the awful work in progress Discord clone, Spectrum, which gives them more censorship controls, right off the bat, threads like this are being deleted (here’s a PDF).

View post on imgur.com

Note that they timed this transition – to a broken system – within the same period as the release of this long awaited 3.0 schedule. On a weekend. They knew what would happen.

The really horrid part of this is that, between the 1600+ whales (that we’re tracking through publicly available analytics), the reputation management company that’s creating user accounts to spread “interest” and manage the project’s tainted rep, as well as the toxic backers who are not only engaged in profiteering through the Grey market of selling ship assets, but also waging an Internet wide war of attrition against dissent, the outlook is even more grim now than ever before.

But now that the State and Fed officials are aware of what’s going on; it’s only a matter of time now before we hit the big finale.

Anyone giving them money now, instead of waiting to see if they can actually build the two games promised, deserves to lose it when they fail to deliver on those promises.

BONUS: Remember the recent Lily Drone fiasco in which a CA State Attorney swooped in and seized all their assets? OK, here’s how that precedent setting action pertains to Star Citizen.

Part of the suit has to do with the initial pitch video, watched by millions of people, showing off what appeared to be a Lily drone following users and shooting video. The drone responsible for all that fancy aerial work and video was not in fact a Lily, but a DJI Inspire, something the creators failed to mention.

There’s also a slightly technical issue that forms a second front in the DA’s lawsuit: the fact that they went with an independent “pre-order” strategy rather than an established crowdfunded development site like Kickstarter. That makes Lily’s money qualify more on the side of internet sales than investment in an idea (something Kickstarter and its projects are always careful to explain), which exposed the company to certain consumer protection laws.

One, the FTC’s Mail Order Rule, required that, if a pre-ordered product is seriously delayed, the company must issue refunds unless customers indicate they don’t mind the wait. Lily certainly must qualify as having encountered long delays — from February 2016 to “later in 2017” — but refunds were not issued at large.

It’s this second offense that caused the DA’s office to file a temporary restraining order freezing Lily’s assets — to prevent it from, in the words of the TRO, “further dissipating these ill-gotten preorder funds.”

1) The Lily drone video was faked, didn’t represent the product pitched; and the execs were busted in fraudulent misrepresentation.

See Star Citizen “demos”

2) The Lily drone project was very delayed.

See Star Citizen’s Nov 2014 promised date, and every single missed date since then. As of today, the project is officially 29 months overdue

3) The Lily drone project wasn’t issuing refunds. CIG/RSI wasn’t issuing refunds – as required by law.

See Star Citizen refunds debacle.

To wit: Back when I challenged the refunds as per the rubbish ToS versions, very few took me seriously. At that time, refunds weren’t happening. Then someone decided to test it and went straight to State authorities. The fallout was amazing. I wrote a whole blog surrounding it.

Then just like that, refunds were a thing.

4) The Lily drone project moved their crowd-funding off Kickstarter.

CIG/RSI moved their funding off Kickstarter, where accountability would have prevailed, to their own private crowd-funding site

5) The Lily drone project regarded the backer money as “pledges” and not sales.

CIG/RSI have long insisted that backer money were pledges, and not sales (as in pre-sales).

Reader
wratts

I know it’s late, but can I just say for one I’m glad to see you back on the MOP forums. Also glad to see you’ve moderated your debate style a good bit since the last time I saw you here.

I hope you’re wrong about the fate of SC, but I suspect you’re probably right. A lot of the points you’re making are important points about the nature of development, and building accountability for the marketing practices and promises CIG and Roberts have been engaging in.

Hopefully, Roberts manages to stun us and the world with a highly functional, rapidly iterating platform. Hopefully in 2019 we’re all saying “damn, did NOT see that coming. Now, let’s go explore!” But, if that doesn’t happen, hopefully the work you’ve done to archive and build the case will make consumers more wary and make sure the next developer thinks more thoroughly about the promises they’re making.

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Joe Blobers

DS you are terribly predictable in failed prophecies… You say again that this is the end… tss tss tss
Readers remembers pretty well yours two last bankrupcy prophecies.:

You said in 2015: “The CIG business model, beyond this $85m pledge phase, is unsustainable (21 July 2015)… CIG reached 146M$, and still growing, in 2017

You said in 2016: “CIG will collapse in 6 months. (25 June 2016)”. Results CIG still gather 2 M$ without special events.

And now in 2017: “These last few months are the final money grab before the final collapse comes.”

Come on DS… It sounds pretty obvious that you are hardly qualified to provide trustable comments or advises.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

You are confusing a messy multi office game development with a scam. I admit its not ideal since they are pioneering somthing on this grand scale with all these new ideas and software/hardware requirements.

A publisher would probably have sunk this project by rushing it along like Sony did to No Mans Sky (feel free to correct me if im wrong and knowing you DS you will gladly do so). On the other hand they would have been able to streamline it sooner and save this project 1 or 2 years if they are good enough as publishersto reign in all the ideas to keep the publushing timeline from spiralling out of control.

Thats the peoblem here in my honest opinion. They want to deliver a complete game with all the expansion at the initial release date while they should have focused releasing the main game first and focus on adding expansions after.

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Chris Clark

I wish more people would pull the useful information from your posts and that less people who simply want to believe in SC would exhibit less unfounded hatred. You may be right, and you may end up being wrong, but it’s not like you aren’t expressing legitimate and reasonable criticisms. If this does go as bad as you suggest, this could be pretty bad for early access games. But…. that might be a good thing. Too many developers are taking advantage of too many players willing to gamble.

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Joe Blobers
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Jonathan Hofwijks

As long as adeveloper isnt bound by a timeline and are legimately focused and driven they will deliver what they promised. I blame publishers aa much for game flops as developers. That timeline rush is what makes or breaks a lot of developers.

Ask DS, he sued take 2 for releasing one of his games too soon

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Space Captain Zor

The complete lack of empirical truth is damning to his assertions, however.

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Chris Clark

See… that is **exactly** what I mean. You are apparently so blinded to objective information that you simply can NOT accept it. Your blinders have melded with your flesh and become permanent.

But, again, you might be right! Derek could be wrong! But we don’t know yet. Maybe RSI will pull this out after all. I hope so. I’m invested at about $60 I think.

The issue I refer to is that you simply will. not.accept. anything negative about the game. And you especially will not accept anything from DS. That is intellectually obtuse. It’s unreasonable. CR is a god, SC will be the best game ever to be produced by human minds, never to be topped, ever, and ANYTHING that is contrary to this assertion is simply evil.

That is not a reasonable position to hold. And there are hundreds of people like you. It’s dangerous to the gaming industry. It’s dangerous to your wallet (and others, in case you don’t care about your own). And it could be dangerous to your health.

I just think you should open your mind just a little, apply a little critical thinking, and entertain the idea that maybe… just maybe… this isn’t heading in a good direction. Maybe…. just maybe…. if you were to put your mind to it, you could help CR and RSI in their professed goal of releasing what could be an amazing game. You could help them if you were to start holding them to a little more rigorous standards. Don’t gloss over their failings. Don’t excuse their poor choices. Don’t simply buy their PR talking points. Demand accountability. Demand a little more honesty in target dates. That’s all. If you and all the others like you would do this, I am willing to bet the chances for a successful launch, sooner rather than later, would improve.

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Joe Blobers
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Space Captain Zor

Do I have to accept it just because he said it? Does it not matter to you that I absolutely do not agree that he’s being objective? I’m sure there aren’t countless examples of people abusing THAT level of naive trust throughout the ages of humanity.

You’re actually wrong though. I am on record here in comments and elsewhere in citing problems with the development of Star Citizen. I absolutely accept that it has had problems and they’ve done a lot of things in poor judgement. The difference is nearly everything from DS comes from unverified anonymous sources and he just wants you to believe him because he’s a game developer and must obviously be onto something dirty and real, right? If there’s anything he’s actually had proof of, it’s things I’ve already said I agree with–such as poor management decisions and terrible communication when it comes to release estimates, etc. Nothing they haven’t overcome or that would ultimately make me feel the need to cry fowl or demand a refund over or assert that they’ve failed and the game won’t get made.

If you read what you wrote, you’ll see that you actually do not want me to think objectively. You want me to think YOUR way about it, like an echo chamber. You want me to sit and worry that it “isn’t heading in a good direction.” Well, on the day I’m provided concrete information that would contribute to such a notion, then I will potentially sway my opinion on how things are going. That hasn’t happened yet. You can call that blind optimism if you want but then again that’s the only course we have with 99% of every game in development isn’t it? What I see is progress and that makes me optimistic.

The only thing we are entitled to hold CIG to is that they continue to develop the game, continue to communicate that progress to us, and to ultimately deliver a product. We do not even possess the luxury of deciding when that delivery should occur. That’s just not how this system works yet.

Maybe our pledges should have included an option to enforce a release date on them, on conditions of an automatic refund should that date be exceeded. But if it did, what studio would accept that risk?

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Chris Clark

First I have to admit that I don’t follow or recognize anyone in these comments, and rarely participate. So if you do not perfectly fit the bill that I have describe, my apologies. That said, I think you will agree that there are people who perfectly fit my description. These people are not helping. I think your distaste for DS is a little overblown. After all, neither of us has done what DS has done. People like that have ego’s sure. I’d have an ego if I had been able to have that kind of success. But don’t forget CR has an ego too, and it isn’t too wild or crazy to suggest it is pretty healthy, heh. Rejecting what people say based primarily on how much you like them isn’t very reasonable.

As for the latter part of your post, you should read me again. I’m not asking you to think what I think. I suggested that people who irrationally dismiss what DS should simply apply some critical thinking. I didn’t tell you what to think. I think the best you can infer form what I wrote is that I think SC may not be heading in the right direction. Or at least, repeatedly stabbing itself in the face as it moves in that general direction, lol. If you need more proof that SC *****might**** not be heading in the right direction, then you do indeed wear the blinders you want to deny. The mere fact that we, as a community, are having this debate suggests that things MAY not be going well. We can lay the blame for that squarely at the feet of CR.

But hey, I’ve never believed I can sway a True Believer. I find it unfortunate though, since those who have so heavily invested in the game are the ones best equipped to actually get through to CR and get to the truth.

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dsmart

You’re wrong. In every aspect. And no less than three crowd-funded cases have proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt. The Lily drone fiasco which I wrote about, being the latest.

The only thing we are entitled to hold CIG to is that they continue to develop the game, continue to communicate that progress to us, and to ultimately deliver a product. We do not even possess the luxury of deciding when that delivery should occur. That’s just not how this system works yet.

The promised release date (Nov 2014), as well as the ToS (all versions of it), gave backers all the protection they need. The only issue is that there is no way to enforce it. The only recourse being the same action that most backers have now taken: stop giving them money!

Also, remember The Pledge?

Well, guess what, a publisher funding a project would ask for financials, and know how the money for the project is being spent. Why have backers not pushed for this?

Maybe our pledges should have included an option to enforce a release date on them, on conditions of an automatic refund should that date be exceeded. But if it did, what studio would accept that risk?

It does. See above.

And the ToS doesn’t need an automatic refund date. All of you have to do now is ask for a refund – if you want one.

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Joe Blobers
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Space Captain Zor

If the only recourse is not to pledge in the first place, how am I wrong in a post-pledge context?

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dsmart

You hit the nail on the head. Back in 2015 when I started calling for accountability, had those with the power (who were giving them money), put their foot down, we won’t be here today going through this. Instead, between Sunk Cost Fallacy, Cognitive Dissonance – and Grey market money laundering, these guys simply couldn’t reconcile the fact that the much-hyped project could fail.

It makes no sense. At all.

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Joe Blobers
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Armsman

What makes little sense is your endless FUD. campaign against Chris Roberts. Given how long your current game “Line of Defense” has been “in development” (if that’s what you want to call it, but overall LOD been the same since what 2012? Not to mention you yourself keep claiming LOD public launch is imminent. Heel, your own company Forums for LOD haven’t seen much activity for 2+ years.

Here’s a link:
http://www.3000ad.com/forum/forum/66-line-of-defense/

Not to mention you started on LOD in 2009; promised a 2012 launch date, and here we are in 2017, with the game not really having changed since 2012 – and in perpetual Steam Early Acces (except for the time you claimed to have pulled it due to ‘review bombing’ <– which was a fairly bogus claim in itself considering the reviews it received from many a gaming site.

And yes, you'll answer with: "I didn't do a Kickstarter or take peoples money beforehand, so it's different…"

And yes, in some ways it is, but in the end, these days you're much more of a Twitter addict then an actual game developer. The fact is LOD looks like it was made in 1995; and you've been 'working on it' since 2009 (and by 'you' I mean the intern programmers you get for your project – then don't pay them for work performed… (link below):

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/f63563de5aa0aefa8a693834859afdae

But bottom line – you're one to talk about long/stalled game development as its been nearly a decade for your latest game with no real progress in 5 years.

TLDR: I wouldn't consider you a reliable source to comment on the development of any real AAA game, as you really haven't finished a modern one recently yourself.

As for your Star Citizen predictions:
From October 2015:
https://archive.is/Ofyjz
^^^
You gave them "90 days tops"

https://archive.is/YwcP8
^^^
As far as I know the Austin office is still up and running.

So yeah, keep you BS FUD campaign going (I mean hell, you're not really still working on LOD anyway.)

I'm sure your current predictions will be as accurate as the ones I've linked to above were back in 2015.

Oh, and BTW – Is it indeed possible SC could ultimately fail? Yep. That's true with any large scale AAA game development project. And also, if we didn't have any sign of progress, or a portion of the game to play that works (and SC Alpha 2.6.3 does work and is playable) – I might agree that SC is a scam.

But the fact we see weekly updates (with in engine footage) and get patch updates to the existing Alpha – as well as publicly available Dev schedules – it's hardly a scam at this point.

Plus they really didn't have a company or start full scale development of SC until the initial crowdfunding campaign success in November 2012; so yeah, I don't think 4 1/2 years to the point we are today for game of this scope is unreasonable – most garden variety MMOs take 5-7 years.

But hey, keep up the fight. I'm sure you'll still be calling SC a scam even after it gets released (assuming it does get a retail release of course).

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dsmart

None of those personal attacks (aside from the nonsense about my project, team etc), is going to make Star Citizen any less of a scam, let alone a game. But don’t let that stop you though. It’s hilarious when you guys can’t discuss what I post – purely on merits – but have to resort to personal attacks and manufactured nonsense.

ps: unlike a $146 million scam, built with other people’s money, by 500+ people, over 7 (!) years, my indie games, no matter how long they take, do come out. And LoD is no difference because I don’t need to lie about progress in order to raise money to fund it. It’s self-funded, and those who are interested in it, get the benefits of the progressive updates as we develop the game.

Nice try.

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Joe Blobers

I learn my lesson… so I am going to provide facts for Readers without any personnal attack of any kind in mind :)

Here are for readers a few numbers about Star Citizen kickstarter project. You won’t find any 7 years developement, nor 500+ team:

– Employees count:
2012 end of Kickstarter: Chris Roberts and around 10 people   
2013:  48       (Austin: 34 –  LA: 14)
2014: 161      (Austin: 55 –  LA: 38 –  Manchester: 68)
2015: 258      (Austin: 57 –  LA: 41 –  Manchester: 132 – Frankfurt: 28)
2016: 363      (Austin: 54 –  LA: 64 –  Manchester: 191 – Frankfurt: 54)
2017:

– Pledges chart:
2012 end of Kickstarter:  goal was 2M$.  They got 6M$…
2012: 7M$
2013: 35M$
2014: 68M$
2015: 104M$
2016: 140M$
2017: 146M$  (March)

– Citizens count (not he Backers count which is estimated to +500.000 individual)
2012: 103.000
2013: 340.000
2014: 705.000
2015: 1.150.000
2016: 1.700.000
2017: 1.772.000  (March)

Looking at those numbers and progress made, to be tested/play on live servers, I see not debacle, quite the opposite.

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Joe Blobers
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Space Captain Zor

You know, if all you said was that it “could fail” then no one would have any reason to dispute you, as that is of course obvious.

Asserting that it already has, when it in fact has not, is what makes no sense. Their services are live, their website is live, and as recently as this week they have provided progress updates. I’m not sure how else they could convey that the development is alive and kicking, thus disproving the notion of a failed status. I think you would apply the same exact logic to your own in-development game(s), would you not?

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dsmart

Your inference that I should say “could fail” instead of “has failed”, makes absolutely no sense.

They have failed to deliver – every step of the way. Since they missed the Nov 2014 ship date. Then blew through the 12 (then changed to 18) month “cure period” they themselves imposed – without anyone asking them to.

Aside from that, if you read – and understood – my very first July 2015 blog about this, it would be obvious that I did not say it would fail. I was cautiously optimistic. Until they declared war, I started digging, and people on the project continued to reach out to me.

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James Brand

Derek I see your having problems with English again check the Kickstarter Page for SC and it clearly says “Estimated Nov 2014”:

Now here is the definition of estimated:
1)”To form an approximate judgment or opinion regarding the worth, amount, size, weight, etc., of; calculate approximately”
2)To form an opinion of; judge.
3)To make an estimate.
4)An approximate judgment or calculation, as of the value, amount, time, size, or weight of something.
5)A judgment or opinion, as of the qualities of a person or thing.
6)A statement of the approximate charge for work to be done, submitted by a person or business firm ready to undertake the work.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/estimate

So there is no way you can logically claim with any degree of certainty that “Estimated Nov 2014” was a “Promised Ship Date”.Since your broke here’s some Free advice sell one of the “several cars registered in my name” that you claimed to recently have and buy yourself a dictionary and while you at it book yourself a place in your local Florida state elementary school like say this one:

https://webapp.browardschools.com/schoolsplash/schoolsplashnl.asp?infoid=1631

Take up a course in English where the children there will be able to teach you the basics Derek because right now your just making yourself look like a idiot.

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Melissa McDonald

Yeah but your detailed pedantic definition of “estimate”, like you are bloody Webster, just makes you look like kind of a douche, too, ya know?
And just for the record, smart guy, it’s “you’re” not “your”.

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James Brand

Well if pointing out that Derek is intentionally trying to mislead by asserting that a Estimate was a “promise” makes me a douche then guilty as charged.

Regardless it does not change the fact that on numerous occasions Derek has either directly stated or implied that what is clearly stated as a Estimate was somehow a “set in stone” promise when it was not.

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Joe Blobers
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Space Captain Zor

You already said “could” fail:

these guys simply couldn’t reconcile the fact that the much-hyped project could fail.

That’s what I was referring to.

Did you truly think they could ever have shipped a game in 2014? I didn’t. I’ve said it many times–they were fools to suggest that they could.

If the most damning, tangible thing you can say about Star Citizen is missed release dates, then you’re going to still find a lot of people who just aren’t bothered by it. Gamers are pretty used to it by now and we know the sky isn’t falling every time a date comes and goes.

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dsmart

Look up “empirical”.

Then, for bonus points, find out what the correlation between “truth” and “assertions” is.

At the moment of enlightenment, you will find that nothing you wrote makes any sense. Like, at all.

ps: ad hominem is precisely why this project ended up being so polarized, and the backer community got such a toxic rep.

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Joe Blobers
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Jonathan Hofwijks

Actually the backers arent toxic they are very positive about the game. As with everything you will have a portion blinded by herd mentality, byt overall Star Citizen backers believe that the game will be released on the mere fact that the progress is clear to see and test out during the pre alpha.

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Space Captain Zor

On the contrary, I’m pretty comfortable with my usage of the word empirical there, thanks. It was to convey the implication of actual truth. Facts, of the documented, verified, non-alternative kind. Not the feelings, “beliefs” and opinions you opened your statement with. Your beliefs are not incontrovertible and carry no weight in the face of logic.

You continue to assert your beliefs as fact. Just because you assert it doesn’t mean it’s true, despite your “correlations.”

I tend to believe assertions made by people and sources with whom I have established trust. Funny enough, that’s the same logic behind an SSL cert. I don’t currently recognize you or your “blog” as a valid cert, Derek. Sorry bro.

What ad hominem are you referring to anyway? The way in which you suggested that I’m unenlightened? We could mince words on how that is or isn’t any different from anything I said of what you wrote.

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dsmart

Indeed.

Also, some people (including media), are pulling the relevant hyperbole-free parts of my writings from time to time; and I have never objected to that at all. Though I never claimed to be neither unbiased nor objective, I tend to inject as much facts as I can in whatever I write; and for various reasons. i) lawsuits, regardless of merit, aren’t fun; ii) presenting facts, with cited source material, goes a long way toward letting people make their own judgment call iii) my goal isn’t, and never was, to convince people of anything

I know – with unflinching certainty – that I am right about the fate of this project. And that’s precisely why I have tethered myself to this horse, dragged it all way to the hill, and climbed to the top of said hill. There is a LOT that’s not yet made public because it would not only compromise sources (present and departed from the project), but also give those parties a heads up on what’s coming.

As to this schedule, just last year when I claimed sources told me they had never even seen nor heard of a 3.0 schedule until Roberts trotted up on stage and presented it, most didn’t believe me. That was Aug 2016 when he said.

..so, it’s our big end of the year release. er so er yeah, so we’re gonna get it out the end of the year; hopefully not on December 19th but, er, like last year….but it is a big one, so, not making er, I got shot for making promises, but er, that’s our goal“

Then after getting all over $22m -based on lies – come Jan 2017, they started talking about “working on a 3.0 schedule”; for a build they were supposedly going to be releasing mere four months from Aug 2016.

And there are those still defending these actions.

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Joe Blobers
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Chris Clark

The psychology at work here is fascinating. I’m not sure why so many people seem to be so desperate for SC to succeed. I mean, sure, they invested money into it, so of COURSE it will succeed and be awesome. I wouldn’t have invested in something otherwise, right? I suppose some of it is ego; wanting to be one of the few chosen who get to fly the biggest, baddest ships. Spending thousands of dollars to be able to do that is obviously worth it, since as previously stated, it WILL succeed. But at the end of the day, the game is being developed by humans, and humans have a collection of behaviors and habits that are not always the best we have to offer, heh (ego, for example). There is the corporate culture to consider as well.

I think people will be referring to this saga for decades to come, no matter what the final outcome of the game is.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

Why are people so convinced that Star Citizen will fail?
Have i missed a financial report that said they project was underfunded? Or was it Chris Roberts saying hes shutting it down? Or rather game updates not coming in anymore? *pensive*

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James Brand

Derek is salty because he tried to weasel his way into a position of authority with CIG like he did with Quest Online and it backfired.When CIG gave him his refund he gave a fake address to try and stop it so CIG made damn sure he got it.

He tried to get bad press by having Liz Finnegan write bogus hitpieces with fake GlassDoor Sources the articles and the accompanying Podcast have since been pulled so he’s extra mad since it was the only place dumb enough to take him seriously.

Line Of Defense was yanked from Steam and has now been yanked from GamersGate so he’s extra mad,further to that his game is dead 1 player a month on a MMO lol.

So his game was dead before he even started it ans he was so broke he had to give his 2012 Interviews from his Hotel Room instead of a Trade Booth like any reputable Developer.He’s got no players on LOD the othe project he was put in charge of by Quest Online(Alganon) is equally as dead and nobody wants to buy his Vaporware, even his Goon Buddies on SA and FDev wont play LOD when he begs them to and offers Free Keys lol!

Meanwhile CIG is making more in sales in a single hour than Derek has made in sales across he “30+yr Career” CR is well respected Derek actually thinks when people say “oh the Battlecruiser guy” that it is some kind of compliment(it isn’t).

Derek even assured take two that Battlecruiser 3000AD would “decimate Wing Commander”,well we all know how that went don’t we xD.

TL:DR Derek is salty and figures “If I can’t have it I’ll burn it to the ground instead”.

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Joe Blobers

People don’t. A handfull of guys with a precise agenda do. There are not people for sure.

Project is totally healthy with zero risk of bankrupcy. None. Nada.

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Chris Clark

I think the idea is that Roberts has bitten off far more than he can chew. What stated out as an exciting and interesting idea has gone through a dozen rounds of expansion and feature creep until we get “‘SIMULATE A FIRST-PERSON UNIVERSE WITH ALMOST NO LIMITS’”. I mean…. what next? “The newest capital ship now on sale will come with a special VR headset especially designed for Start Citizen by the technical wizards at Moon Base Valiant that will interface with your nervous system to recreate the sights and sounds of the Star Citizen world and truly place you in the pilots chair of your interstellar WarBird!”

True believers will insist that everything being done and planned for today was announced and planned fro back when SC was just a gleam in CR’s eye. Many more people will see that the massive interest in a new space sim MMO led to a lot of cash flowing into RSI coffers, which led to CR deciding to make use of it by expanding the game over and over again. Other’s will say that the sale of pixel property that literally does not exist yet for cold hard cash is distasteful.

Me? I am just tired of not having the game they announced a few years back ready to play. I think all the stuff RSI wants to do is amazing, and will break ground in the genre unlike anything since has in many years. But while they work on that stuff, I’d like to be able to jump into my ship and go fight some space pirates with my friends, and then go hunting for some moon resources to sell.

Cyclone Jack
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Cyclone Jack

“I’m not sure why so many people seem to be so desperate for SC to succeed.”
Maybe because they are trying something more ambitious than another CoD clone, WoW clone or generic MOBA clone? I’ve got very little invested in the game, no more than any other KS that I have backed in the past. Some of those games were great, like Grim Dawn, Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, etc. Some were bad, like Mighty No 9, and Armikrog.

On the contrary, I’m not sure why so many people seem to be so desperate for SC to fail. Think of all the decent games that have been released in the past 10 years. Imagine how much better they could have been with a bit more time. Look at how many games with so much potential are rushed out the door unfinished and incomplete.

Yeah, SC it taking a while to develop, but look at games like GTA 5, Diablo 3, SWTOR, even Derek’s own Line of Defense, which has been in development since 2010, 1-2 years before SC started initial development. Some games that are large and ambitious take a while to develop. I just find it ironic that Derek is complaining about SC’s dev cycle while his own project is in the same boat. Perhaps he should pull the beam out of his own eye first.

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dsmart

Yeah, SC it taking a while to develop, but look at games like GTA 5, Diablo 3, SWTOR, even Derek’s own Line of Defense, which has been in development since 2010, 1-2 years before SC started initial development. Some games that are large and ambitious take a while to develop. I just find it ironic that Derek is complaining about SC’s dev cycle while his own project is in the same boat. Perhaps he should pull the beam out of his own eye first.

No matter how serious you guys are, as soon as you start drawing meaningless and false equivalent comparisons, you lose the argument.

All those games had experienced devs and publishers behind them.

And they were funded by those parties.

This has nothing to do with “large” and “ambitious”. Unless you are willing to accept the fact that Roberts – since day one – has been lying to everyone. He didn’t pitch a “large and ambitious” game. He increased the scope beyond the engine capabilities, as well as the team’s experience and abilities. This is fact – and there’s no getting around that or the game would be farther along by now.

And comparing a $146 million project, which has had over 500 people working on it, to a self-funded indie project which has had less than a dozen people consistently working on it, then thinking “yeah, that comparison makes sense” just makes the argument that much more hilarious. There is no comparison.

When you guys can’t discuss the merits of Star Citizen, then you start making these unfounded comparisons as way to justify and hand wave way everything, it’s hard to take you all seriously.

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Joe Blobers
Cyclone Jack
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Cyclone Jack

Except, I’m not arguing? I’m stating that game development takes time, showing examples of games that had long dev cycles, and that you, of all people, should know that. But, feel free to argue that statement so that I lose an internet or something. I’m going to go get some dinner and wind down for the evening while you do that.

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Chris Clark

I think DS is suggesting that “taking time” means different things depending on the scope of the project and the team building the game. You seem to be equating the time it takes for a dozen people to make a game as equivalent to 500 people making a game. But this again is the whole point: SC today isn’t what it was at the beginning. It has 500 people and 146 million because CR has continually expanded the game. Instead of making the game he pitched, he took the massive influx of money and ran with it. At this point the project is no closer to being “complete” than it was at the kickstarter. Being an apologist for the game is not helping it to succeed. We need to be more demanding of RSI to see some return for the money we’ve invested.

Cyclone Jack
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Cyclone Jack

GTA V had a dev cost of ~$265 million, took 4 years with an established studio, over 1000 developers worked on the project, and it used the same engine as GTA IV. As I stated, games take time to develop.

And I’m not apologizing for the game. I know full well that the scope has grown since the KS (and with the amount that was brought in, I honestly expected it to), and I know that the game we have currently would not have been possible without CI picking up the Crytek engineers when they did. That, IMO, is what saved the project, coupled with him bringing Erin onto the project. If those two things didn’t happen, the game would definitely be in a different state than it is now. At the same time, them focusing so much on the planetary tech, which was supposed to be post-launch, has greatly delayed the project. Am I annoyed at the delays? Sure. Do I shake my head whenever CR speaks? Of course. I think he needs to be muzzled. However, I’m not going to go on a crusade because of delays to a video game. I have more important things to do in my life.

And like I said initially, if the game fails, I’m only out the cost of a game. It would be no different from buying an EA or Activision game, a minor disappointment and then you move on.

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Joe Blobers
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Jonathan Hofwijks

Chris Roberts is as experienced as they come. Hit title after hit titles have been developed by him.
I am glad that he did this project without a publisher and so are most of the backers. Write about how sick and tired gamers are about getting these hakf asses games released on time…schedules are important if you have a specific budget in mind, but if your crowdfunded that luckily is out the window. You focus on delevering a completely finished product.

If you can dig up real evidence that CiG is broke than you have a point. Most of us just dont care about delays when all weve seen in past and recent years were publishing L’s and fails.

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dsmart

Simple. Most people can’t reconcile the fact that they’d been conned, and/or bamboozled. It’s a psychological thing.

Also, the fact that my “noise” brought the whole thing into a different light, those toxic backers only fear is not that Roberts was wrong; it’s that I was right. That’s what drives them.

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Joe Blobers
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Jonathan Hofwijks

You are biased and blinded by somthing what it is isnt exactly clear.
Jealousy is my best guess. You probably think you are so much better than CR but you havent gotten the chances he has or had the limelight?

You are like one of those washed up athletes trolling twitter about te current generation of athletes

Or a 90’s/00’s rapper complaining about mumble rap.

Get with the program dump your publisher. Crowd fund your own game and proof how its supposed to be done. Dont hate, create.

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Joe Blobers

He won’t has he would not gather a dollars :) At best he got 10 followers and alts and try to stay visible by attacking his intimate ennemy CR.
Here what he think about people in general, including PC players:

“I don’t give a shit about people long enough to care what they think”

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Chris Clark
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Jonathan Hofwijks

Name calling? Its more like trying to find out why he as a failed developer is trying his best to troll CR instead getting a likeminded project off the ground himself.

So yea i think its CR succes and reliability at making hit after hit game series and titles thats chewing at Derek Smart while he is still “slumming” it. Did CR sell out? No he actually left all the publishers and at it alone so one of his titles wouldnt get chopped up again like they did to freelancer iirc. Even DS sued take 2 interactive for releasing one of his games too soon.

Lesson learned by CR id say. Im just hanging back and watcging the steady progress. Could be faster though, but im guessing its human nature to be impatient.

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Chris Clark
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Joe Blobers
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Jonathan Hofwijks
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Dividion

Based on past performance, it was pretty obvious they wouldn’t have 3.0 out by Christmas. They said 2-3 months per point release, so I set my expectations for at least 4 months per point release. With that in mind, 3.0 should’ve released this month, with 3.1 in August and 3.2 in December. Instead we’re getting 3.0 in 2 months, but with some of 3.1’s items included. So I guess it balances out… kinda.

As for Squadron 42, I’m sure it’s going to be epic when it eventually comes out. The original game was projected at $22m and 2 years. With 6.6x the budget, I like to believe that what we’ll get will be at least 6.6x more epic. (Hey, I’m an optimist.) At least it won’t take 6.6x as long (13.2 years). Their bucket of funds won’t last too much longer. In truth, they really need to launch Sq42 within the next year or so in order to raise enough funding to complete the PU.

At this point, I’m content to wait a couple more months and see what they deliver in 3.0. I believe they have every intention of delivering the best game they possibly can, but it’s a race against the clock and they need to do it before the funding (and the good will of the backers) dries up.

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dsmart

June 29th, all things being equal, is 2.5 months away. Accounting for delays, and assuming they don’t remove stuff (like they did with the 2.6.x patches), that could very well turn out to be 3-4 months out.

A lot of people, including myself, don’t share such enthusiasm for SQ42. Notwithstanding the likes of COD:IW, ME:A, and the upcoming SWBF-II, all of which have outstanding production quality.

If SQ42 had an inkling of what you suggested, CIG – now strapped for cash – would have been trotting it out and using it to raise even more cash. Even though most core backers don’t care about SQ42 as much as they care about Star Citizen Actual (aka the PU).

I have no doubt that the core developers are working hard toward shipping “something”. That’s never been the issue for me. The issue has always been bad management, handling of the project, and misleading backers with blatant lies, all designed to keep taking money in bad faith.

I hope that some of you moderate and even minded backers will be able to reconcile the end result of this whole thing when the dust settles.

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Melissa McDonald

it’s true that SC’s FPS is pretty vanilla, weak sauce compared to the franchise FPS games. Battlefield 1 makes SC’s FPS look like years-old Halo.

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Joe Blobers
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Space Captain Zor

Bad management, mishandling of the project, and misleading (intentionally or otherwise) backers/pre-orderers is a current mainstay of the entire gaming industry. Are you on a crusade against all of your peers, or just some?

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Joe Blobers

DS say “I am not on crusade” but believe CR declare war to him… Go check google and you will the all story and you attack and who ignore the other. CR, despite daily stop attack from the guy againt him and his wife, did said once several years ago :”why should I care about someone who never did something…”

You won’t find anything more from CR about DS… However, the other guy is tweeting every day (if not more) since 2 years and half and gave prophecies of Doom every so often.
Why every so often? because they are all (100%) proven false so he have to repeat them again and again:)

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dsmart

First, I’m not on a crusade. So you can ignore how I got involved in this, and call it what you want, but it won’t change the premise or the actual facts.

Second, there is no plausible evidence that “backers/pre-orders is a current mainstay of the entire gaming industry”. That’s a broad statement derived from false equivalence and outright fallacy.

Yes, there are disastrous crowd-funded projects. They don’t affect me, I have no interest in them, so I don’t care about them. Ergo, I don’t have to write about them, other than use them as reference fodder (e.g. the Lily drone fiasco).

Your inference that I should be writing about something else – which doesn’t affect or interest me, is the sort of narrative used to silence people because you don’t like what they have to say. Everyone loves free speech, until they hear speech they don’t agree with.

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Joe Blobers
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Space Captain Zor

I think you’re flip-flopping a little bit. Were you not saying that we, the customers and gamers, should be voting with our money against bad practices and bad management and misleading marketing and undelivered promises? Should that not apply to all games and projects and not just the ones you say affect you?

What percentage of released games in 2016 would you say did not incentivize a preorder or a developmental pledge? What about future 2017 releases? Everywhere I look I see as much, hence my statement on the industry at large.

Yes, there are disastrous crowd-funded projects. They don’t affect me, I have no interest in them, so I don’t care about them. Ergo, I don’t have to write about them, other than use them as reference fodder (e.g. the Lily drone fiasco).

When you emphasize your agenda like this, should you not expect people to question the merit of anything you have to say on the issue? The way you word it, this sounds like nothing more than a petty vendetta. If you care to go into specifics on how they “affected” you, I’ll listen.

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dsmart

I think you’re flip-flopping a little bit. Were you not saying that we, the customers and gamers, should be voting with our money against bad practices and bad management and misleading marketing and undelivered promises? Should that not apply to all games and projects and not just the ones you say affect you?

That wasn’t what you were saying.

Scroll back up and read what you wrote; and to which I responded – clearly I thought. I am not going to write about, or follow projects I have little or no interest in. How hard is that? And how does that absolve any gamer the responsibility you mention above? What has any of that got to do with me?

What percentage of released games in 2016 would you say did not incentivize a preorder or a developmental pledge? What about future 2017 releases? Everywhere I look I see as much, hence my statement on the industry at large.

I don’t care, and have no interest in any of that. This discussion is about Star Citizen, and my involvement (which you call a crusade) in it is of no relevance to any other project. As much as you’d like to change the subject and make it about something else, don’t waste my time; as I have no interest in that.

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Joe Blobers
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Space Captain Zor

I wasn’t making statements, I was asking questions. See all my question marks you quoted up there?

I ask because you are citing other crowdfunded projects:

I am not going to write about, or follow projects I have little or no interest in.

You’re wrong. In every aspect. And no less than three crowd-funded cases have proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt. The Lily drone fiasco which I wrote about, being the latest.

Flip and then flop. How little or how much interest you have in what you write about is completely relative only to you.

Anyway, should I not infer from that citation that you’re describing a greater problem with crowdfunding in general? I’m trying to follow your dialogue but on one hand it’s broad (see above quote) and the other it’s only CIG. You’re not keeping entirely on point if you’re bringing up non-CIG related incidents.

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dsmart

Anyway, should I not infer from that citation that you’re describing a greater problem with crowdfunding in general? I’m trying to follow your dialogue but on one hand it’s broad (see above quote) and the other it’s only CIG. You’re not keeping entirely on point if you’re bringing up non-CIG related incidents.

No, there is no such inference. You brought up other games, projects etc. I didn’t.

Then you were asking why I wasn’t talking about other projects, peers etc.

I never brought up ANY other project; other than to use Lily drone project as an example of how Star Citizen project runs afoul of the law.

So, any/all attempts you are making to steer the discussion away from Star Citizen, have ultimately failed. I’m a programmer, so I can recognize obfuscation when I see it.

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Joe Blobers
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Space Captain Zor

You know, I really don’t have this motive you seem to think I have. I have been inclusive of CIG by association the whole way. I mean, this is an SC article; it is implied that anything we say about the industry at large applies to CIG and SC at the same time. I’m not trying to obfuscate anything. I am not going to deny a verifiable fact if it’s presented. If they have actually done something unlawful as opposed to simply distasteful then so be it, but as far as I know no prosecutor has filed charges.

Anyway, how does asking you questions and trying to get you to answer an obfuscation? How am I trying to obfuscate your problems with Star Citizen by asking if you do or do not ALSO have problems with all the issues that plague not only Star Citizen but other crowd funded projects in general, to which you cite in order to make comparisons? If nothing else, the answer to those questions would help your overall message (or hurt it).

My aim here is to help you see that your message currently sucks. As long as your vendetta is openly personal, it has no legs. Go after the bigger picture and maybe a larger group of readers will care. I don’t think it’s news that a majority of gamers are tired of unfulfilled crowdfunded promises or being nickel and dime’d by microtransactions, intangible promised goods, and disappointed by preorders and season passes that don’t live up to hype, and are burned by the gamble of Kickstarters etc etc. However, a majority of people do still want Star Citizen to succeed and feel that despite whatever you have dug up doesn’t currently portend to affect the outcome of its release. As long as all your sources can’t or won’t go on record with documented proof of CIG running away with the money with no intentions of finishing the game then it’s moot until the doors close and you can say you were right. Actual legal charges against CIG out in the open speak a lot louder than any of your self-promoting comment threads.

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Chris Clark

Not to speak for DS, but I would like to think that the issue is that the potential failure of SC could hurt the industry at large. As crazy as ti sounds, there are an awful lot of people with 4 or even 5 figure ‘invested’ in SC. I’m only on the hook for about $60, but if it all goes down the toilet, I will be pretty miffed. So what will it mean to all of the small developers out there who don’t have the option to go to a large publisher or dev house to get their games made? Wouldn’t it be bad for the industry if SC crashes and burns and poisons the well of money these small developers need?

I think that people like DS are pointing out what they consider to be flaws and weaknesses in an effort to prepare people for the possibility that it goes bad. Assuming it’s just jealousy or something like that is a lame attempt at dismissal. Like it or not, reasonable observations deserve a fair hearing even if you don’t like what they say.

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Space Captain Zor

Honestly, I think I’m the only one who is actually reading everything he IS saying here. It’s easy to defend his position if his position is what you think it is rather than the one he makes himself.

You are right though, the crowdfunding issue is a real one. It has already been hurt by other sensational flops and could be hurt again, perhaps mortally, by a Star Citizen collapse. But Smart’s not pointing out those weaknesses in the funding model. His “observations” are that CIG and CR are lying to everyone, that CIG is or will soon run out of money, SC is a scam and always has been, SC cannot be made as per CIG stated goals, and SC is already 3 years late because they missed their first internal release estimate.

I’m sorry but there’s just nothing there worth engaging him on. Every bit of that is just tabloid clickbait that he wraps around links to his personal blog posts. He doesn’t name names. He doesn’t quote sources. He doesn’t cite documented legal allegations. He doesn’t cite financial information. He avoids the on point message you bring up in your first paragraph and dodges questions as to why. I can’t help but shrug.

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Space Captain Zor

I see you’ve started a writing career for the tabloids now. Looks good. You’re much better at this than game development.

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dsmart

heh, I’m a game dev, moonlighting as a blogger. I write for myself.

I’m not so sure about being “better at it than game development” because after all one can only aspire to excellence through practice and perseverance. Plus “good, better, best” are all subjective. Especially when it pertains to visual arts and media. You see an empty canvass, where someone else sees a waterfall.

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Joe Blobers

Quote: “one can only aspire to excellence through practice and perseverance”

Are you talking about your average note of your 2.40 of 10 note on Metacritic which does show that you from terrible game 20 years ago to totally crap in 2017?
:)

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Tithian

I must be the only person that gives zero fucks about all the multiplayer bullshit. I threw something like 25$ their way, all they way back in 2012, because they promised a single player campaign and what would essentially be Freelancer HD. Little did I know that the single player would be delayed to oblivion.

I probably should’ve spent those 25$ on popcorn, would make the drama all that much tolerable.

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Joe Blobers

Indeed you will get two AAA for the 1/3rd of the price. Not a bad deal if you compare to what you get with COD16 or BF46

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dsmart

Note how how nobody has seen any gameplay of Squadron 42 since Dec 2015? Not to mention the fact that it has never – ever – appeared in any of the schedules?

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Jokerchyld

“we will be simulating a first-person universe with almost no limits.”

Why do they say things like this? Of course you are going to have limits! The infrastructure is going to run on finite resources. This is when great ideas for games go south. Instead of just being plain of what is going to be delivered, they embelish to the point when reality cannot meet the dream there is a huge backlash.

Anyone remember No Man’s Sky?

I hope they deliver a quality product.

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dsmart

That’s par for the course. He’s been doing that forever because those few remaining whales still giving them money, tend to believe it.

This aside from the fact that i) hardly anyone is playing the game ii) you can’t get more than 10 clients into an instance without the server either falling over, or running into significant lag

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Joe Blobers

Proven false already in 2016…. and to Readers, here is what we get in 2017 with 3.0 to 3.2:
Star Citizen – From Pupil to Planet

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Chris Clark

The pessimist would say that they make statements like that in an effort to pull a few more bucks from the pockets of their devoted fans.

Skoryy
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Skoryy

Are we there yet, Papa Smurf?

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Mick the Barbarian

Shut up and take my money …..

…. oh. You already did.

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BalsBigBrother

Well I suppose it has been a while since we had some SC articles blow up and hey look now we have had two within a couple of days of each other. Don’t these things usually come in threes? I wonder what the last one will be?

heh *munches popcorn* ;-)

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Rottenrotny

Part of me hopes they eventually release, part of me hopes it crashes and burns so that this debacle is less likely to repeat itself.
As it is this just seems like a prime example of how not to develop a game.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

Im with you there. Eventhough i paid over a 1000USD to support Star Citizen. It would be funny to watch it crash and burn.

Than again, why deny myself my only almost realistic Star Trek type trip to space ill ever be able to afford.
Cant wait for VR support. Im gonna Picard the hell out of it….me: “Stardate 2751…..”

No loadscreens, mining will be more than busting up some rocks, exploring will be more than jumping through wormholes and im even kind of scared to salvage unknown wrecks. What will i find on board? 🤔😖🤑😲

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Rottenrotny

$1k? Holy cow. That is unfathomable to me. Just reading that makes me cringe and reinforces my disdain for this game.. Eek.
I’ve spent $0 on it and as it is I will never give them a dime. Voting with my wallet and all.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

I have full confidence that Chris Roberts will deliver whats promised and it will give me goosebumps just like Wing Commander 3 did when i was a kid. Cant say when, but he will deliver.

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Melissa McDonald

Heart of the Tiger on our Lucky Goldstar 3DO system, with dolby symphonic sound, remains one of the greatest game experiences of my whole life. The quantum leap ahead of 16-bit cartridges was beyond belief.

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Space Captain Zor

The debacle of seemingly fairly talented (to put it mildly) people going against the grains of sensibility and burning through loads of time and resources iterating over and over again on the most insane of challenges in game development history to put together a sandbox the likes of which no one in their right minds would NOT want to see become a reality?

That’s a prime example of how not to develop a game with Publisher-money and Publisher-time-constraints and Publisher-bureaucracy and Investor-over-gamer interests at heart.

Sure, it’s been rough and their PR has had ups and downs, but at the end of the day their intentions are laid bare and the desired result is something we should all hope for.

The best thing is they don’t need hope. Only the time, money, and resolve to do it. I don’t see any indication that any of those 3 things are at risk of running dry.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

Even if they wouldnt deliver on half the things they promised it would still be 50 times better than No Mans Lie

Estranged
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Estranged

I just don’t understand why this game keeps getting billed as the most ambitious ever…

Sounds like PR hype.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

Go to youtube and watch some videos of the ships commercial, citizencon and gamescom on the offcial Star Citizen channel i think its called Cloud Imperium Games? Or Star Citizen? 🤔

Estranged
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Estranged

I’m a backer. Thanks. My two packages are up for sale. Have at it potential Citizens.

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Rottenrotny

Your first paragraph sounds ok, buuuuut then it comes back to the dubious business of funding through kickstarter, which is bad enough. Then, to make matters even more shady, selling items that don’t exist yet.
Just on those two points alone I hope it crashes and burns and every Dev from there on out never uses this funding method again.
That being said, the (seemingly delusionary) game idea they’re presenting sounds pretty neat and I’d like to play it, I just highly question their funding methods and the fact that the development time seems to have no end in sight… while they continue to rake in the questionably acquired $.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

All kickstarter projects sell items that dont exist yet.
The upside of being funded through kickstarter is that they dont get rushed into failure by publishers like other titles were (No Mans Sky comes to mind).

Estranged
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Estranged

Yeah, NMS is a functioning game. We must pay top dollar for a tech demo to be legit. Am I right?

malibutomi
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malibutomi

I can understand anyones concern,but your last sentence shows you don’t really follow the development, and didn’t try to put it it perspective, so i’ll help you out.

SC is just about to reach its 5th year of development. They are making an MMO vastly complicated than any out there + a single player game, on a custom engine with a lot of new tech, while they started from zero and had to build up the teams/studios/all the equipment on the way.

For established studios with ready team/funding/equipment takes 3-5 years to build a bigger single player game ( Withcher 3 years, ME:A 5 years, GTA5 PC 7 years)usually on an off the shelf engine, without any risky new tech.

So SC dev time is not really outstanding at all, they are about on par with any other game dev.

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Xijit

The only thing stuck farther in development hell & managing to somehow produce nothing even with nearly unlimited funding, is NASA’s Space Shuttle replacement project.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

NASA is more like Elite Dangerous than Star Citizen 🤔.
You go to space to find a lot of nothing 😅

Estranged
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Estranged

Space is mostly nothing.

malibutomi
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malibutomi

You didn’t really follow game developments do you?

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Xijit

And until they manage to figure out how to develop the basic feature of having an options menu that lets you shut off all the bullshit post processing they have vomited onto it in an effort to doll up how dysfunctional and boring their limited functional content actually is … I will continue to have zero fucks to give about this tech demo.

edangerous
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edangerous

The problem I have with Star Citizen is they are always talking about what it is going to be rather than what it is.
How about delivering and talking up what you have delivered instead of talking up stuff that could change quite considerably between now and then.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

They should stop the talking by about 90% add more scheduling updates like they recently have, keep their heads down and develop the motherfreaking game 🤔

malibutomi
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malibutomi

Maybe because what have been delivered is available to the backers, they play it so noone wants to gear them talking about that.

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Oleg Chebeneev

How you expect to hear them talking when you never watch their videos? Just few days ago they released big video about how they prepared this year shedule in past months. And there are many videos like that behind the scenes.

edangerous
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edangerous

What? Dude lay off the assumptions please. I watched their ‘building a schedule’ video as soon as it came out, and what does that have to do with anything anyway, it was a video talking about how difficult game development is, something all game companies contend with.

The fact is they talk about how much better this is going to be, how much more depth it wil have, how few limits there will be and so on but until they deliver it’s just talk. There previous deliveries have been kind of lacking compared to how they talked it up so perhaps a little more restraint would be useful.

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Oleg Chebeneev

You just said they dont speak about what they have done, only about what they plan to do. Shedule report proves you wrong. They have Around the Verse weekly podcast where they speak and show what they accoplished in previous week. And this podcast was running FOR YEARS now.

So yeah, either you never saw any of those videos, or your original post makes no sense.

edangerous
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edangerous

I think you’re being a bit too semantical here.
A video of a recently made schedule is not a delivered product. Videos of what they have produced in-house is not a delivered product.
As backers we have not received anything playable because of that schedule video, it’s just showing what they intend to be making going forward. And now we have CR laying on the hyperbole about a limitless single system universe with 3 moons and zero planets etc.
It should be obvious that I am talking about what we get on our computers and can make use of, not something we will (hopefully) get a number of months down the line.

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Space Captain Zor

Just saying, 80% of their videos harps on stuff they’ve done in the past-tense.. ship shape being a nice example. In-engine footage in their videos is almost always pre-prepared stuff on things that have dropped in the most recently released patch.

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edangerous

Sure, that’s certainly true but it’s not the PR stuff and that is what I’m talking about, the PR stuff always takes the possibilitites of the game to the extreme. Rather than put out comments that might come back to bite, they should rein in the promises and hyperbole until they are sure they can achieve those enthuisatic claims.

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Armsman

Space Captain Zor said:
Just saying, 80% of their videos harps on stuff they’ve done in the past-tense.. ship shape being a nice example. In-engine footage in their videos is almost always pre-prepared stuff on things that have dropped in the most recently released patch.

And if they just talked about what they were working on, or planning to work on – with no engine or other rendered footage, I sure some of the same people complaining that they only show what they have worked on or a WIP of what they are working on would turn around and say:

“Hey where the PROOF you’re working on this? Talk is cheap = Vaporware!”

So yeah, they’re damned in the PR eye no matter what they do. But even you admit 20% of there videos do talk and where possible show what they’re working on – like the Planet tech that will be at the forefront of the SC Alpha 3.0 patch when it drops. But bottom line, I think they realize Backers do want to actually SEE what they have in the engine (released or not); as opposed to only talking about what the are (or plan) to work on but have nothing concrete ready to show yet.

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Lethality

Well, the thing is… it *is* in development, and the nature of game development is that is *absolutely will* change quite considerable between “now and then”. Talking about what it’s going to be is literally supporting the development lifecycle they’re currently in!

They don’t market the game in a traditional sense “as-is” yet, because “as-is” is not a complete game. Sure, there are plenty of things to do and gameplay to be had, but not in the sense mainstream gamers would be ready to consume.

Hope that makes sense.

Estranged
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Estranged

Plenty of things to do?

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Lethality

– An entire first-person shooter featuring multiple maps, game modes and leaderboards
– An entire arena space shooter featuring multiple ships, multiple maps, game modes and leaderboards
– Area 18, ArcCorp planetary landing zone/social space with commerce/shopping
– The Crusader system, a small chunk of the Stanton system, an open-world map for multiple players.
– Within Crusader, dynamic missions to boot up/hack down comm satellites, which leads to emergent spaceship gameplay involving players hunting pirate criminals. Criminals can choose to pursue a goal of hacking the criminal database to erase their criminal statistic, leading to emergent FPS gunplay
– Within Crusader, exploratory missions, derelict spaceships
– All of the above earn aUEC which you can spend in all of the above :)
– And much, much more!

Estranged
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Estranged

Lethality – this is the most ambitious project ever? Come on.

Sounds fun. It is not the game of all games.

The FPS footage I have seen is “eh” compared to other titles dedicated to such battle.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

Its pre alpha photage and gameplay 🤔.

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Space Captain Zor

Also fair to remind that it’s not feature complete either.

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Oleg Chebeneev
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Space Captain Zor

I just want to see what people do with the camera controls + planetary tech. I can’t get enough of the scale of ships vs planets while in orbit, ala the recent Javelin destroyer video.

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Jack Pipsam

No limits, wonder where we’ve heard that about games before.

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Schlag Sweetleaf

“With this we are delivering something that goes way beyond the initial promises and conception of Star Citizen; we will be simulating a first-person universe with almost no limits.”

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life_isnt_just_dank_memes

SO 3.0 is a reduced experience per info from last week and now it’s an almost limitless experience? So it would have been even more limitless if they didn’t have to limit the scope of what 3.0 is gonna be when they finally roll it out? Also, it may or may not contain a single asteroid I can seamlessly fly onto and walk around on and do stuff on?

I want to play this game, but I think my healthy skepticism at the undue amount of hype Chris is trying to place on this is 100% justified.

Cyclone Jack
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Cyclone Jack

He does not say that 3.0 is going to be “almost limitless”. He’s talking about the Planetary Tech and what it brings to the table, not that it will all be there in 3.0.

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Jeff

This game could be an exquisite MMO hitting all the marks and still fail just because of not living up to Roberts hype machine.

Sad that they can’t see that.

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Oleg Chebeneev

There is big difference compared to Warhammer Online that failed cuz overhype. We never saw WAR gameplay until beta. They just kept telling how amazing it will be showing nothing except concept arts and CGI trailer. Beta quickly removed pink glasses.

With Star Citizen you can log in game and try the game now. Fly the ship, play shooter part, go racing, explore available stations. Besides there is tons of videos, screenshots, podcasts. People are hyped about SC not because devs tell us how good it is. But because we try it ourselves and see with our own eyes how impressive it is. At least on technical side.
As for gameplay, we’ll see. But exploration alone will get me busy for sure.

oldandgrumpy
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oldandgrumpy

no I just cannot log into to the game as it is hidden behind a 30-40G download and if they change 1 bit anywhere in the game it is yet another huge download. For some of us this takes up to 3 days to get. Still waiting for differential patching and then I might be able to see some of these great new features.

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Alex Willis

This is such a critical point. If all they did was describe the work they were doing — iterative changes, improvements, etc — people would still get pumped. This constant over-selling is giving people ammunition to criticize its failings at launch. And here’s the thing: the critics will have actual justification for their beef. The constant comparisons to NMS are valid, in this respect.

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sigtyr

I agree I am somewhat interested but the constant “We are going to do MORE and MORE and MORE so what we had planned to do will be delayed” ad infinitum does not inspire confidence.

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Joe Blobers

That is long time CIG did not added any MORE.

They are now delivering what they said. No more no less.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

hey it drove massive sales for nms and other games that were over sold and hyped and failed to live up to said hype, why not hype as much as possible? especially when you’re being too proud to take publisher or investor money and want to hoard profits long term?

i mean it’s not like years of overselling and underdelivering drove AMD’s marketshare into the ground in two different segments right?

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A Dad Supreme

“When you see a planet or moon, you will be able to fly there, land and explore on foot, or from your ship or a ground vehicle you have brought with you. All seamlessly, all with the incredible first person detail that Star Citizen is known for,” Roberts said. “With this we are delivering something that goes way beyond the initial promises and conception of Star Citizen; we will be simulating a first-person universe with almost no limits.”
================
Man this sounds incredibly exciting.
As a non-backer of SC, I would love to see this as a launched project and if these promises are kept, I definitely will support the product with a purchase.

That said, no money from me now, Mr. Roberts. I think you have more than enough at the moment so here’s wishing you great success from a potential future customer.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

that quote sounded familiar so i went and looked, and ofc we’ve heard it before.

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Robert Mann

Yeah, my biggest thing with comparing anything to NMS is that usually the comparison isn’t that the new game showed off fake footage and called it in-game footage.

That’s where I think NMS became a suddenly huge hyped thing, and that was then the promise it had to live up to. Since it was never real, that was a huge problem.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

eh they did show real gameplay of NMS before launch. just that sean murray implried there was more to the game than what he showed, when really he showed the whole game essentially XD

star citizen has plenty of “in engine” videos that don’t resemble gameplay or look like anything in game at all. and i’m still waiting for when actual gameplay starts resembling their “live gameplay” demos at conventions they do.

so there’s that as well.

what often comes to mind here is hte qq over division’s e3 trailer, when in reality that trailer was pretty spot on aside from some ui changes.

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A Dad Supreme

Haha yeah.

I’ll say this DK, I don’t have any idea if this project will succeed wildly or fail spectacularly but I do know I don’t want my money tied up into something with this many promises.

Last time I heard this much in the way of promises and hype was EQNext, and that pretty much took the last ounce of gullibility out of me regarding MMOs.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i’ve spent about $300 cad on it. and i enjoy the game for the past year for what’s there while admitting what is and isn’t there and the state of the game as it’s relevant.

which my appraisal of the game state is alot different from fans selling it to people on reddit et al to the point i was considering making a video that shows the true state of some of the popular to selll people with things that people post videos in those threads (the reality of eva and physics grid in particular).

but tbh i cba and a couple of those things improved alot in the last patch.

i truly think we’ll get a good chunk of the things they are promising. but i have doubts about how good those things are gonna be. or that they’ll resemble what they are selling them as. too much buzzwords and hype and we all know how those things go in this industry.

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A Dad Supreme

You’ve seemed pretty realistic in your assessment of the game as a backer from what I’ve seen; not the typical MMO partisan Kool-Aid drinker.
The thing that red-flags me is the quote he says “we are delivering something that goes way beyond the initial promises and conception of Star Citizen; we will be simulating a first-person universe with almost no limits.”

To meet expectations in today’s MMO space is difficult if not impossible. He’s just guaranteed “way beyond” and “almost no limits”.

That is ballsy to say the least and I do hope he/they can do that, but the skeptic in me says that’s something that the guy who’s running a Ponzi scheme says just before they start selling a ‘new stock asset for prized customers getting in now’ when they know they’ve run out of money to keep the company going.

I’m not saying this company is bankrupt or in need of money, they seem like that’s covered. But the pitch in that quote reminds me of a Madoff-type statement to get more money when the scam slows down.

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Jonathan Hofwijks

If you keep in mind what he initially wanted to make was already a nice project that put itself ahead of the class and what was added by backer request has put this game ahead of all games and it probably is gonna set a new standard.

No limits to me just reads as a world of warcraft type world you can travel and game in where you are not bound by traditional gaming limits. You wanna smash up buildings you can but dont be surprised when you get shot down by authorities. You want to act the fool go ahead you can do so. You want to free roam go ahead. You wanna mine? Roleplay? Smuggle, be a merc, info runner, soldier, racer theres so much do do if he delivers it is indeed almost limitless.

Personally i saw the No Mans Sky fail coming a mile away because i compared it to Star Citizen and was wondering how NMS was doing all that at lightspeed development compared Star Citizens slow and steady pace. I have invested more than 1k usd into SC and 0 in NMS.

edangerous
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edangerous

It makes me sceptical as well. I remember him saying all of this stuff in the build up to star marine and while SM is okay it is a far cry from what he was claiming it would be. This interview should give an idea http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331726969794/star-marine-interview-with-chris-roberts

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Jonathan Hofwijks

Its a pre alpha. The amount of tweaks the dog fighting module has gotten is countless.

Star Marine will experience the same evolution.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

at this point i disregard anything that comes straight from CR as being overly optimistic salesman bullshit.

some other devs at the company are a lot more realistic and less buzzwordy in their comms when they talk to backers.

but CR himself is pretty much a clone of mike kern during his firefall days.

we speculated in irc that it’s erin roberts, CR’s brother that is responsible for getting the project on track and reining in CR and getting legitimate production happening at CIG. because loose estimtes of timelines and what we know was and wasn’t going on at the company now (vs what they were selling us at the time) is that shit all was getting done before erin and his team got on board.

idk how their warchest is holding up, but it does feel like they are gettign desperate to increase funding. they’ve got increased incentives to subscribe to their newsletter, they’ve got the warbonds thing (use cash instead of store credit to buy new ships and get a discount) and they’ve been doing alot of free trials of various ships for players in game.

but not the game isn’t a scam. the money is being put towards the development. wether or not that money is being managed well… well to some degree some of it isn’t obviously since we’ve got idiotic stuff like star marine but i mean they are making progress and even if i wish they’d do more like other early access projects and give us the real build instead of a 9 month old vertical slice which is also an expensive waste of manpower, well i won’t pretend it’s a scam.

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Space Captain Zor

The meat and potatoes of what’s going on right now is that (IMO, and as you said) a) Erin righted the ship and b) they seemingly have all the time and money they need to keep iterating on everything until they have it right. That’s a freedom to be envious of if you’re a developer at anywhere else except Valve.

Personally I don’t have a problem with them keeping up the revenue as long as they continue to grind through the challenges, keep making progress, and aren’t giving up on their promises. So far I don’t see anything that makes me doubt this is the case.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

they were up to like 400 employees across 5 different offices before this point,. and the letter says they’ve hired even more.

$140million doesn’t last long with that amount of ongoing costs.

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Adam Babloyan

Do we know if they aren’t receiving funding from other sources now? I mean with a 140 million in crowdfunding it would be super easy for them to secure traditional funding.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

there was a guy on something awful thread about refunds that claimed to be an investor aaand posted proof of having access that is well beyond what comes with the highest whale perks. he said he was in for tens of thousands of dollars along side other private individual investors who would often stop by the studios and do meetings and stuff. he said part of the reason he pulled his money out was because they started to clam up and stop talking to the investors.

some people think he might just be a mega whale tho.

chris roberts had investors lined up before they even went to kickstarter. he’s well connected and wouldn’t need a kickstarter to prove to investors that his name is bankable. it’s also pretty silly the argument that publishers wouldn’t have picked up the game either, but the guy clearly has an ax to grind against publishers adn it brings in the revenue to throw shade at them like he continues to do.

but really yeah, they could’ve got investors or publisher support before they ever started running kickstarter presales to begin with. and literally already had the hook up of the former.

oldandgrumpy
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oldandgrumpy

one guess was that there burn rate was approx $3M per month

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Space Captain Zor

My hunch is they’ve invested a lot of experienced and highly paid dev time up front on making advanced tools for a large herd of cheap, junior developers to get a lot of this stuff done on that budget. Well designed tools, style guides, pipelines, and schedules can get a lot done with cheap labor I’d imagine.

One thing I wonder on, though, is that subscription incentives you brought up. They claim subscriber money is solely used to produce all the weekly shows and flair and whatnot but I wonder if that’s held strictly true all this time.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

idk about the last. idk how much money they bring in.

but not that expensive to do weekly videos on youtube with fairly high production value. i mean youtubers do it all the time on shoestring budgets.

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Armsman

And the money for the video shows is provided by the SC subscriber base (IE It’s money subscribers pay each month for their monthly hangar flair items and other small perks) and said money isn’t included on the main site’s funding tally.

Like many, at this point, I’m pretty sure both SC and SQ42 will release in some form; but hell, when I read and backed in back in October 2012 – I honestly thought, “No way they can get 100% of that into an MMO, But if he can get 60% – 75% of that it, it would still be amazing; plus, I’d get access to a ‘modern’ Wing Commander like single player branching campaign…”

I also thought the estimate given for even the original pitch was HIGHLY optimistic (a trait CR has had his entire game development career); as I do have a degree in programming and have been working with Computers directly in some since the mainframe days in 1975. (yeah, I’m old, but I started using HP teletypes connected via acoustic 110 baud rate modems in Jr. High to learn BASIC and FORTRAN, and continued from there…)

Still, I knew anything like this was risk, and haven’t spent more than I can afford to loose if it does go south. That’s a ood rule of thumb for anyone on large expensive and time consuming projects that promise the Moon (IMO).

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

we were speculating if the subscriber money is used for more than that or not. which we just don’t know. we also have reason to believe there’s some degree of private investment from private individuals that get info under NDA beyond that of the biggest whale perks.

i backed in 2013 becuase the kickstarter sounded good and doable. i didn’t care about wing commander because xwing/tiefighter were my space sims of choice back then, but i did love freelancer, but also didn’t care by that point of what freelancer did to the space sim genre (basically space games after freelancer tended to have a similar control scheme).

we know there’s risk involved with backing, amongst us backers who are less than trhilled with some behaviour from CIG/CR, i think we tend to take issue with some of the weird things from the company and the fanbase, and don’t quite buy in to alot of the rhetoric and narrative.

in any case if the company was to fold tomorrow i’d have gotten my money’s worth in so far as game time spent playing, even if we are all entitled fully to teh finished product we paid for. i would still regret the other kickstarter games i bought more than star citizen tho.

Valen Sinclair
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Valen Sinclair

There’s so much talk and so many updates and modules and versions and features and sales of this game, I don’t even really know what it is anymore.

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Space Captain Zor

Welcome to watching iterative software development on a very, very lengthy project?

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

honestly i let my irc buddies filter out the noise for the most part. there’s just way too much noise that comes out of CIG and not that much substance, tho i hear recent ATV (one of their weekly video series) have been high on signal over noise the past several weeks.

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Space Captain Zor

The ratio is about 2 to 1 at the moment. But it’s gotten a lot better, yeah.

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Paragon Lost

If they can pull off the hardware and software horsepower to do it, awesome. If they can’t, the peasants will gather with pitchforks and torches for sure due to the size of the ongoing hype.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

teh game isn’t very demanding on computers as it stands now. it does have very low fps due to server and netcode issues tho. but in terms of making demands on your graphics card and cpu it’s super lite because really there’s not much being rendered most of the time.

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Paragon Lost

I’m talking about their end. I’m not worried about my end. (said as someone who drops the cash down for a Nvidia Titan gpu) GOod hardware on their end, with the resources to handle what they want to do is a must. As is well written code that is optimized.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

yeah it’s basically because CE server and netcode sucks. which is stuff that devs using it commonly have to make their own from scratch for game projects that involve multiplayer.

but like any other game we see out there that uses CE (like say archeage) i’m sure they’ll deliver on doing that stuff at some point.

i mean i don’t know why it’s taken so long exactly compared to other things which are more unsual reworks of CE (like the 64 bit floating point stuff and the rework of the map chunk system). but i’m sure they’ll get er done before long. which is actually i believe due in 3.0

granted idk what the deal is witht eh hype machine buzz generation with releasing all that stuff together when more typical early access process is to deliver what you have now while working on harder more long term elements (like say dayz, they did major rework of various parts of the arma2 engine they use but they were still deploying up to date stuff like vehicles and stuff, where as, as this and the progress schedule update tell us, our clients are fully 9 months behind their internal version). which ends up being more work and more money spent and man hours wasted on old out of date vertical slice to give to backers instead of giving us the up to date project.

which is just even sillier than the constant vertical slices they make more than any other game company for conventions (which yes game companies do typically make a vertical slice for the convention rounds now and then years before launch, but not multiple a year every year).

anyways the backend netcode and server stuff is all normal part of working with cryengine and if xlgames can put hundreds of players in a single area and thousands per noninstanced shard i’m sure CIG can meat their target goal of ~100 ships orplayers in a single instance.

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Space Captain Zor

it’s probably got a lot to do with a) CR’s ego and b) the continued “first impressions” lens they feel they’re under–which they are probably correct about.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i feel like CR’s talk should just be disregarded and ignored at this point. i’m of themind that erin is the actual senior executive lead running things at this point, and CR is pretty much a figure head. not unlike say mcquaid on his mmo. just with better pr.

as for the first impressions fear, it would be based on the early versions of AC in which after CR had thrown MS under the buss for the mechanics of freelancer, he basically immidiately implemented freelancer’s mechanics on the first pass. which at the time all the game play demos they were doing on video were always either controller or mouse and with a stick or hotas conspiricuously in the scene but obviously not plugged in.

otherwise i think for the most part we’ve become used to early access paradigms well enough at this point as consumers to appreciate games in early access are alpha/beta w/e. while still being informative to prospective buyers what the state of the game.

the problem is the line of reasoning with that stuff that says those people being honest if a game is buggy or not worth buying in early access yet are hating the game. and sometimes they are right. there’s been a number of early access games popular youtuber gaming celebs have made a fair bit of cash from “exposing”. but i think in general people would respect star citizen more if they were

1) less hype and used car salesmanship
2)deploying updates on the internal build
3)without talking up their so called openness.

either way if anything in generall i see alot less of the so called hate and out of line qq as much as countering people selling the game as things it currently (at the time) isn’t with some reality checks on what is there.

which imo is an improvement from a year or more ago where on those venues being real about the reality of the current client state or the revenue model was met by toxic hostility.

anyways, as the saying goes, keeping early access players on the actual build is good enough for every other early access game project company since minecraft, it should be good enough for star citizen too, regardless of CR’s poor fragile ego.

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Armsman

Chris Roberts is the ‘visionary’ (although he does indeed have knowledge of what’s needed and if it’s possible); he’s just NOT a good overall scheduler/manager – and his completion estimates are overly optimistic.

Erin Roberts seems to be the guy who can take CR’s ideas and make schedule that works and breaks stuff down into accomplishable pieces that drive the project forward.

Without his brother Erin’s help; I don’t think CR would be capable of getting a retail launch version of SC out in a reasonable timeframe; so it’s good CR roped him into it (with the Foundry 42 part of CIG) at the start.

And again, with about 4 1/2 years of real full scale development to get to this point with the two games they’re working on (SQ42 and SC); I don’t think their progress is unreasonably slow; it’s about average. It’s just that with their ‘open development’ model; the public is getting a peek behind the curtain (not a full minute detailed daily view – but still a good peek) of AAA game development, warts, delays, and all.

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Space Captain Zor

That being said they’re almost always a few comments on articles about it here along the lines of “wtf is this anymore anyways?” or “what exactly is this game?” :P

People are apt to ignore until they try and then quickly judge/ragequit when it’s not perfect–just like the guy that ragequit on my group last night in the firetruck incursion after we had our very first wipe right as the firetruck was dying and the last person alive goofed up and ran back into the fire. Had been perfect up to that point! Hate that shit so much…

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

well people do that with completed games tho.

idk how many launched or about to be launched mmo’s i’ve fired up, spent 15-60 minutesderping around in and uninstalled thinking “this is crap”

there’s going to be those people no matter what in any game.

and that’s ok.

Zander
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Zander

The ignorance and hate filled comments for this game rivals anything the Derek Smart camp is doing. Stay classy MOP community.

I’m very thankful Massively OP takes a very neutral stance on reporting on this.

This report certainly provides optimism as they are coming clean about many concerns and providing a better gauge of what to expect the coming 8 months.

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Armsbend

Ignorance? No. Hatred? Yes.

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Utakata

But Mr. Drainage and 4 other /upvoters disagree with you. /puleez

Estranged
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Estranged

Marilyn says hello.

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Utakata

From many of us looking at it from the outside, it does look like a fairly convoluted project. From the long term supporters, I suppose they are satisfied with the way things are going. I guess that’s the game is going, the fandom have to learn to live with that. I am personally still waiting for the day when this game is considered fully released, then I will be passing judgement then. I am sure it will be interesting. /shrug

Estranged
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Estranged

“Hate”

puleez

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Alex Willis

You think the comments below are “hateful”? At their worst, I’d call them “sarcastically sceptical”. Not much tolerance on this site for hateful speech tbh, and people spewing uninformed BS usually get called out by the reasonably informed community. Also, many of the people throwing so-called “hate” are backers of the game (myself included). So…yeah. Not so much “hate”.

Zander
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Zander

This is turning into another no mans sky.

all Chris Roberts does is make Derrick Smart look smart lol

This is starting to feel like the biggest grift in gaming history. It’s like Donald Trump opened a gaming studio.

Everyone who funded this has done more to weaken the foundation the gaming industry….you ruined fun for all of us.

star citizen which adds new dlc that amounts to a single ship for hundreds fo dollars on a regular basis and can’t be obtained through actual gameplay

At least it sounds like they are nearing feature parity with No Man’s Sky.

they’re actually generally pretty terrible for communicating to customers compared to the typical serious and legit early access game project.

Yeah, I wouldn’t call this healthy skepticism let alone sarcastic skepticism. This is saying, they have zero faith it’ll get done or they way they want it done. It’s bordering hate.

Estranged
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Estranged

Zander, true, this is not NMS. NMS has a lot to do and continues to release patches of actual improvement. Exploring, base building and “soft infinite” planet/system production.

You may be all in for SC, but it is OK to acknowledge that the marketing and hyperbole is in overdrive.

Deekayzero has no issue in admitting that CR is FOS. I would pay him to write reviews for me, because he really plays no favorites.

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Lethality

There is basically zero marketing, you realize… right?

And you say you’d pay someone who writes things you agree with. That doesn’t mean they are writing facts, though. Still pay them for it?

Estranged
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Estranged

Lethality RP moment – All games, other then ones I think are perfect, should die. The end.

I like to read reasonable arguments, not “all or nothing ” tirades.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i don’t think there’s ever been a video game with as much marketting as star citizen has.

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Lethality

How do you define marketing? Because Star Citizen has done effectively zero traditional paid marketing.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i tried my hand at writing reviews years ago but found i’d rather just shit post on massively where people might actually talk back about my thoughts rather than post a wall of text to my blog that no one will even fave. XD

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

ME TOO

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

ayyyy lmao

:D

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Alex Willis

I am trying hard to find anything you quoted that might qualify as “hateful”. Plenty of scepticism in there, much of it healthy I’d say (especially in the wake of recent scenarios like NMS). The only thing in there that is unfair is the comparison in intelligence between Roberts and Smart.

So, again, people here aren’t obliged to heap praise on something just because of aspirational dreams or because its development fundraising has been record-breaking. The proof will be in the pudding, and until then, people have every reasonable right to be sceptical of lofty promises.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

in teh context of other games massively covers, those comments are pretty tame really.

on sc articles it tends to be the fan comments that run into legitimately hateful and toxic territory.

also OP should never look at a wildstar article if he gets upset about these comments. then he might see some real “hate” for a game.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

yeah i’m $300 cad deep into the game and play fairly regularly (currently not playing as much as i’d like but busy with other games tbh and taking a break from games in general last week).

and i’m not being unfair in my comments about the game or company as it’s stuff i would hold any other game i am enjoying to account on. i’m sure someone around here remembers how hard i used to be on wildstar and carbine and i enjoyed the hell out of that game despite the things i called them out for.

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Alex Willis

NO LIMITS*

will this game have pac man
will there be punch and pie at this party
can my avatar be a giant clam
can I import my LOTRO save files
will this be the last game I ever play

* (almost)

Estranged
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Estranged

Alex, I want to know about the $10000 VR bondage rooms.

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Melissa McDonald

ARK has handcuffs. I can take 360 VR photos from there. All booked up though. We have a lovely version of our board game here for you as a parting gift, however. Alex?

Estranged
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Estranged

/sadface

Karma_Mule
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Karma_Mule

Unfortunately they canceled Revival or you might have had a shot at that…

;-)

Estranged
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Estranged

Yeah. 😂

So, the 10K club is nothing but a medicinal virtual space? /sadface

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chriskovo .

This is turning into another no mans sky. They need to narrow the field and actually get something done. Far-out promise are just to recognizable and make a collapse of everything about this game more certain.

Giver me my Wing Commander game with mutiplay you idiot and stop with all the rest of this stuff that will never happen.

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Davide Moriello

there will be two different games. One single player with a long story driven missions. One mmmorpg with an openwrold sandbox

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Melissa McDonald

Almost no limits? It’s a bloody video game. There are millions of limitations. Starting with the fact that I can’t sit down and eat a bowl of cheerios in the game. #HyperboleBreedsEpicFailures #NoMansSky #HistoryRepeating

I make fun because it’s such rich soil for it, but I do expect them to release a game. Just not the panacea it is alleged to be.

Estranged
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Estranged

With the current patches, there are a lot of things to do in NMS.

Will be interesting if SC can come close with 3.0.

They are going from a buggy mess to unlimited universe within two months?

Has the money dried up? I have no words.

April-Rain
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April-Rain

all Chris Roberts does is make Derrick Smart look smart lol

Estranged
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Estranged

DS hasn’t taken in 140 million, however, he did overplay his hand with the complaints.

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Utakata

So you’re comparing this game to LoD? o.O

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Jeremy

Sure it will.

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Grok

This is starting to feel like the biggest grift in gaming history. It’s like Donald Trump opened a gaming studio.

Estranged
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Estranged

If all else fails, go political.

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Melissa McDonald

Except the hotels he builds are real, and beautiful. Here we have the hope of one day playing our pixel ship we already paid for.

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Armsbend

Politics aside – I loathe all the gold stuff he puts everywhere. I think his hotel tastes are as atrocious as his hairdo.

Back to gaming!

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Armsbend

Everyone who funded this has done more to weaken the foundation the gaming industry than anything EA, Bethesda or Activision will ever do. So thanks, you ruined fun for all of us.

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Brother Maynard

Really… The likes of EA, whose entire career is based on ruined studios, including legends like Westwood? Activision wiping their butt with Blizzard and with their Kotick prophet on a lifelong quest to take fun out of games (his words)? Bethesda with their history of neverending greed, going as far as partnering with Valve in an attempt to squeeze every last penny from modders who’ve made their games – especially Skyrim – such success?

All of these corporations working hard for the past decade to take any originality and fun out of games and if any of it somehow has to get back into their games, they make bloody sure it’s through a DLC (first day, if possible)?

It would take many years of hard work, weird haircuts and evil laugh to get even close to what publishers like EA have done to this industry.

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Lethality

If you really believe that, I’m not sure what to say.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

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Oleg Chebeneev

As a proud SC donator here is my reply:

comment image

Estranged
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Estranged

@Armsbend I bought two packages to grey market. Looks like I better get to it.

Sad part is the zealots will blame the realists for calling CR out on his BS.

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Targeter

You’re welcome!

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

guilty as charged tbh.

it’s interesting in the context of not just publishers but other early access and kickstarter games what star citizen gets a pass for that results in shitstorms for other companies.

and then the gaul of the fandom (and in this letter CR) acting like publishers are bad guys.

like look, EA has published estimated 300million dollar games before (swtor) and didn’t charge hundreds and thousands of dollars for dlc for things years before those things could be obtained through actuall gameplay.

people on this site qqing about the ark dlc at $20 for fleshed out meaty content addition becuase the game is early access who defend star citizen which adds new dlc that amounts to a single ship for hundreds fo dollars on a regular basis and can’t be obtained through actual gameplay and no mention of when those ships might be obtained through actual gameplay.

and the fall out is, truly legitimate projects that don’t have the connections og guys like garriot and roberts who are completely capable of getting full funding for their projects, guys like the above and beyond repop devs or shardsonline, they do successful kickstarters to show investors and publishers there’s demand for their products, and because of star citizen and sota those people say “keep funding it yourself”.