Elder Scrolls Online community grumbles over Morrowind class nerfs and the impending Warden takeover

Elder Scrolls Online: Morrowind has a lot of casual players, former players, and future players excited for its launch in June. But what about existing hardcores? And in particular, what about people who’ve taken a peek into the beta and believe the existing classes, especially the Templar, will be totally overshadowed by the brand-new Warden class? The outcry has grown fierce. YouTuber Deltia even has a video where he straddles the line between funny and serious by hauling a shovel out to his yard to dig a grave and conduct a mock funeral for his Templar.

ZeniMax addressed the concerns in a forum post last night.

“[O]ne of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

“If you’re worried that there’s no reason to play a Templar over a Warden, or any other class, keep in mind that Templars have a stronger single target burst heal that’s easier to aim (Rushed Ceremony), they have a faster healing spammable ability with Healing Ritual, and their Ultimate heal hits targets in a 28m radius instead of 8 meters. In addition, have also have a free heal with Repentance, can cleanse allies with the Cleansing Ritual synergy and can remove 5 effects from themselves. Rushed Ceremony is also still the strongest heal in ESO, so Templars still have a lot going for them.”

So maybe put down the shovels… for now… and read up on some Warden lore instead.

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50 Comments on "Elder Scrolls Online community grumbles over Morrowind class nerfs and the impending Warden takeover"

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Mr. Grey

The sad thing is that all the cries of “P2W!!!” have resulted in the Warden being mediocre at best.

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Jokerchyld

Jesus. Some of these gamers need a hug. No longer can you not like something and just do something else. Now you have to shit on the developer, verbally abuse the game and rage quit in epic dramatic flair letting the rest of the community know you are leaving.

Whats the point?

Celestia
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Celestia

I’m going to “glass half full” this one and say that it bodes well for ESO that they have such a passionate and emotionally invested player base.

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Wendigo Runner

I love how the whole Morrowind thing is blowing up since it’s the first game that I’ve pre-ordered in years and I can’t cancel it since I ordered directly through ZOS. It’s so very poetic.

Never, ever pre-order a game. I knew this, I stuck to it for a long time. Then when I finally break it? The shtink hits the fan.

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Rottenrotny

Also the Warden apparently brings some king of stat buff that no other class has. So basically any serious support/healer player will feel forced to roll Warden.
The outcry behind this is that people are screaming P2W.

As it is ESO is extremely convoluted and unbalanced, class/skills/gear/CP. There are so many variations that it’s got to be impossible to balance it all.

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Daniel Reasor

Feel entirely free to name this new stat buff and what it does, since you’re literally the first person I’ve ever heard mention it.

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Rottenrotny

Minor Int and Minor End according to Delia. The wording makes it sound like a buff only for the Warden, not a group buff?

Screenshot (3).png
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Daniel Reasor

I want to thank you for clarifying the complaints that you’ve been seeing.

On the live server build, Templars have permanent Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance if they have Restoring Aura or any of its morphs slotted, Nightblades have Minor Endurance on demand if they use Relentless Focus, Sorcerors can buff themselves and nearby allies with Minor Intellect if they use Empowered Ward, and anyone can grant themselves and nearby allies Minor Endurance through the Fighters Guild ability, Circle of Protection, and any of its morphs. (Source: ESO Academy’s “Buffs and Debuffs” page.)

Now, I’m admittedly not on the PTS, but I’m looking at the PTS patch notes that were posted on the 17th, and I’m not seeing the part where any of these go away, even in a context where the developers are aware that sustain has grown out of hand and they’re dialing it back in general so that people actually use light and heavy attacks again.

Looking at Deltia’s Twitter feed, I’m seeing him holding a mock funeral for the Templar class on the 18th, and earlier today he posted a ragequit video about how he’s “moving on from Elder Scrolls Online.” I don’t know Deltia personally, but I don’t expect those videos to stay up once he calms down and gets back to playing.

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theblackmage75

If I understand properly, Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance are seemingly being taken away from the classes that have it. Probably to address the issues with unlimited resources that Zenimax has identified. But Warden still has access to it? And the main gripe for Templars is losing Major Mending, which helps greatly with healing; something many players believe will make Templars an inferior healer compared to Wardens.

But without playing the changes on PTS it’s hard to say if Templars really are boned. Also, to be fair, it kind of sucked that you *had* to be a Templar to be the best at healing in ESO. I’d hate for that role to be tossed on Warden but a move towards making healing more even across the board would be favorable to me (and my sorc main).

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Rottenrotny

Yeah I don’t subscribe to the theory that the sky is falling and ZOS is forcing people to buy Morrowind and get P2W access to the Warden, but I’m sure it’s entirely possible.

Also, traditionally, newly introduced classes are almost always at least a little OP.
In the end I don’t really care either way because:
A) I hate pet classes
B) I don’t want to reroll and go collect 9999 skyshards AGAIN

I’m sure I’ll fiddle around with a Warden at some point, but my DK is the only character I have with champion levels so I’ll stick with that.

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ogged451

My main concern is the ESO patcher. As I’m using ESO in an attempt to build dizzyness resistance for SWL, I started playing again, for about two weeks now. Today the stupid patcher produced an error 11 and the repair wants to download 37GB. U+1F595 you patcher !

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Daniel Reasor

What I get out of this is that the developers are pointing out that Templar healers actually have a pretty broad and diverse toolkit, and would benefit from learning how to use the right tool for the right situation, while forum and Reddit whineboys are screaming that having to use more than one all-purpose heal button will make them feel less 1337. Is that about the size of it?

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Chris Rosenau

So glad the templar is getting nerfed. Just check out this video:

youtube.com/watch?v=HMJlAmPo9WE

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draugris

A DK surviving a 4vs1 is complaining about another class, lol.

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draugris

Well a lot of the changes in my opinion are good. The changes to the champion system, the changes to the resource pools and their management etc. Regarding the complaints about class changes, some are imo justified but some are simply stupid. Saying that the change to rushed ceremony is a nerf is simply exaggeration. Now you have to position yourself, ok, tbh. not a big deal.

Regarding the response from zos about templar vs. warden that really pisses me off because it shows that zos don´t seem to understand the problem at all. 100% uptime of major mending on the templar was too strong, no doubt about that. But what they did is they removed it from the class completely. The warden instead has major mending, not 100% of the time but he has it when he needs it and he has not to do anything special to get it,just heal as you would normaly do.

The point they mentioned with the resto staff is pointless. First of all, everybody can take a resto staff, this has nothing to do with templars and second to get major mending with the resto i have to interrupt healing to do a heavy attack, to get the buff for 3 seconds. So i have to predict a lot in fights, the warden don´t have to predict at all.

Last but not least and i can´t believe they did not say a word about it. The warden gets a buff through a passive that no other class has, minor toughness, which increases the health of the ally for 10% and you simply give somebody that buff through normal healing. So he has major mending, minor endurance and minor toughness.

So will the templar be useless as a healer,i don´t think so but you will have a hell lot of an easier time with the warden.

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Koshelkin

Could you desribe the changes to the champion system for someone who’s not as actively following the current development of ESO?

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Daniel Reasor

The passive bonuses from investing Champion Points will be front-loaded, with diminishing returns. This is meant to serve two purposes, toning down the power disparity between CP*600 toons and CP*10, and allowing players to feel a little more free to spread their points around more than they do now.

The CP passives that reduce Magicka and Stamina ability cost are being replaced with something else, as part of a larger effort to make resource management matter as much as it does in the single player Elder Scrolls games.

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Dug From The Earth

They could have just given major mending for 6 seconds, with a 15 second cooldown for standing in your own circle.

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theblackmage75

I’m leery of some of these changes. Hope I can jump onto the PTS to test them out soon. However, I have two feelings at present. First, for most casual players–that is, most of the playerbase–the changes won’t be nearly as disruptive for them as for those hardcore and longtime vets who look to squeeze every dram of performance out of the classes they play.

Second, devs have a thankless job when it comes to delivering on new content or updating that which already exists: fix anything, change anything, add anything, replace anything, keep anything the same, and you’re guaranteed to get pitchforks and torches thrust at you from some vocal element of your fandom. And releasing new expansions or dlc only exacerbates the problem as money enters the equation.

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Denice J. Cook

Yeah, and putting the Warden behind a cash-only paywall has got to be at least subliminally affecting Zenimax’s judgement about how OP that class will be at launch.

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McGuffn

The only sure thing is that people who don’t want to relearn the game are the ones that are going to be screwed.

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Alex Willis

Siphoning Strikes:

This ability now causes your Light and Heavy Attacks to restore Health instead of Magicka or Stamina.

BOOOOOOO…PVE NBs are already almost-useless. This will make SapTanks even harder to pull off. And you don’t need self-heal in groups as a tank, because, um, you have a healer. (Like, maybe one of those fancy Wardens everybody is yammering on about.)

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Robert Mann

Unless it is strong enough, where they can self-heal through a lot of content in groups. I know I had a method of doing that on my Sorc tank for VR dungeons. When you have 4 dps and a tank the bosses die so fast! :)

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Indigo Salma

So they make us concentrate on only one skill to get by with it. Amazing thinking right there.

hurbster
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hurbster

ESO players complaining about something ? Colour me shocked.

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Alex Willis

Yeah so very different from other MMO players, who are all quiet and measured in their hahahahaha I can’t even finish that

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Bannex

Making classes and not skill lines is what’s ruining an otherwise solid system.

GET RID OF CLASSES IN ESO

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Rottenrotny

I’m all for classes game systems, but that’s a pretty dumb comment. They’re not going to redo the entire game to get rid of classes. lol worthy.

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Bannex

What fucking redo would they have to do? Turn the classes into skill trees. You’re still limited by the microscopic hotbars.

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Sorenthaz

Just make the class trees require devoting to one order or somesuch til you’ve learned all they have to offer.

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Dug From The Earth

Ive watched the responses of about 10 dedicated, popular ESO streamers and players, people like Deltia. They share one common opinion. To understand this opinion, I need to first explain something about these specific patch notes. The patch notes in question are broken up much how blizzard has been doing with HoTS patch notes. It lists the changes, followed by a developer comment of WHY those changes were made.

All of the responses ive watched so far AGREE with the developer reasons for WHY changes are needed. They just vastly disagree with HOW the devs are choosing to make these changes.

This means a couple of things. Both experienced players AND devs agree that changes are needed. However, the way Zenimax is trying to implement the changes is clearly no where near the best way, at least if you want to keep your players happy.

Common ground among the many players who are in this opinion:

1. The Champion system in its current design, is flawed, and is the cause of why these changes are needed
2. Making core changes to the classes, rather than the champion system, is the wrong way to fix the problem, and will only make the problem worse as time goes on. Especially changes to class uniqueness. Removing elements that make one class stand apart from other classes, just homogenizes everything.

I personally think that changes ARE needed. I think that Zenimax needs to pull these changes back off the current test build, and try to achieve the changes needed from another direction. Even if that means completely redesigning the champion system.

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Robert Mann

Meh, Zenimax can’t even balance abilities within skill lines to be useful (there’s a ton of never-used abilities because there’s a handful that are just superior by a massive margin.) Until they can manage to mitigate that, they need to keep working on the idea.

That said, the entire ES series is about being able to use any ability, rather than classes. That’s just a nod to other MMOs here, and doesn’t really belong (yes, the games HAD classes, but you could make your own or even utilize the abilities any other class might have.) That lost them as many fans as they have people complaining about the homogenization (which wouldn’t be as much a problem with the wider array of abilities being useful.)

They have a lot of fixing to do, and should probably take the class abilities out and turn them into passive leveling boosts like they were throughout the ESO series. (For example, Sorcerors might get a 10% speed to learning magical skills boost.)

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odin valhalla

Nice post Dug.

I agree changes are needed on resources. I think important in your narrative though is some historical mention. Its not like the CP system issue is just now presenting itself. Its been a problem for some time and to be fair Zenimax hasnt done much to address it.

As an old beta player and living through the VR system and grinds I can understand their hesitance. It was probably a big deal to move on from that and they dont want to overhaul it again. That said, with one tamriel the heart of the leveling system now IS the CP system. Thats the bed they made and they are going to have to lay in it. Clearly they arent ready to overhaul it completely but somewhere down the road (sooner rather than later I suspect) its going to have to be addressed by ZOS and overhauled.

The longer they wait, the more painful the switch is going to be.

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Robert Mann

True on that part!

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odin valhalla

As I read some of the forum posts and what I have gathered from tubes and streamers the issue really seems to be the amount of changes at one time. One of the downsides of ZOS is when they do these patches they create massive changes and touch everything in the game.

That wouldnt be a problem if you had some modicum of class balance, or minimally every update something wasnt absurdly imbalanced class wise. They have not been able to demonstrate an ability to issue a large amount of changes and achieve class symmetry. Enter a new class that APPEARS to be pretty dam powerful and you’ve lobbed another wrench into the works.

So its an issue of faith for some. Others are happy to play as per usual but I think Zenimax has finally gotten to the point where they have alienated loyal players. Thats an issue as up until now people have adapted and moved on. You have real threats of people leaving (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc9OhJmXi70&t=0s) Deltia leaving ESO.

This is snowballing for them, and the hardest part is they havent really done anything different than their normal processes. I suppose when you have millions upon millions of users per firor why would you break what isnt broken? The problem seems to be the metrics, if sales are your metric, ya blow everything up every 4 months. If your metric is class balance and player base happiness well a new class intro should have been afforded an altered approach from the status quo.

Im sure they will be fine but for the first time since I started playing I know as many X players as I do people still playing or will play.

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Robert Mann

Class balance? Even individual ability balance within classes… they aren’t even close to overall. Never have been.

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Dima Wisotski

First of all – the Templar’s ultimate is 20m, with one of the morphs reducing it to 12m. So, GG, go learn your own game, GinaBruno.

2nd of all, the other parts of the post are full with real gems. That point towards the developers having no idea on how the actual players play the actual game. As if the devs live in some sort of imaginary reality, where players play the way the developers intended the game to be played.

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Tandor

Far too many people are basing instant judgements on the patch notes and what their friend’s mate heard someone say in guild chat or worse some self-important streamer on Youtube rather than on logging into the PTS and actually trying the changes out.

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Denice J. Cook

How much can the general player base access, what with Morrowind being invite-only? There’s certainly no Warden on the public part to contrast anything to, that’s for sure.

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Tobasco da Gama

Listen, I heard on stream that you’re full of baloney, so I’m going to just ignore everything you said and launch another ignorant rant about how developers don’t understand their own game.

xpsync
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xpsync

This is going to remind me of BnS when i thought i was playing a new game called Warlock’s online. This is going to be the follow up game, Warden’s Online!

miol
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miol

All these class discussions feel so unES’que!

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Targeter

Anyone remember the Death Knight-pocalypse of WotLK? This too shall pass.

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Robert Mann

Thing is, WoW comes far closer to decent balance (minus the focus on only the top performing specs and the odd leanings toward some builds being better consistently) than ESO ever has. They have had abilities in ESO that are essentially useless (nobody ever uses them, they are underpowered and using them leaves you feeling weak even in the general world content, outside maybe a tiny bit of RP) since… beta. They were given tons of feedback on it, and never fixed the ability balance even within skill lines.

Why would anyone expect this to pass like the DK thing did? (And yes, they were OP in most situations for about a month post introduction, with tons of people playing them. I remember people crying about how blacksmithing was getting a stealth nerf because people were going back to other classes when they fixed that! XD)

Theryl
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Theryl

Happens every time a game introduces a new class.

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