The Daily Grind: Which MMOs would you include among the greatest RPGs of all time?

Massively OP reader Francois recently pointed us to IGN’s Top 100 RPGs of All Time, which we thought was worth a nod since unlike many such lists, it includes several early MMORPGs: including EverQuest (100), EVE Online (81), Phantasy Star Online (63), and of course, World of Warcraft (5), plus other multiplayer games we’ve covered in the past, like Diablo II, Titan Quest, Torchlight II, Stardew Valley, Neverwinter Nights, and more Ultima, Elder Scrolls, and Final Fantasy franchise games than you can shake an ancient console cartridge at.

But I can’t help but feel as if the MMOs that were included were added more for their saturation and fame and ubiquitousness during a certain time period than for their actual quality as RPGs, especially once you apply IGN’s rubic, which mentions requirements like story, combat, and presentation. I bet gamers with more experience in the breadth of MMOs could come up with a few more examples — maybe even a few made sometime after 2004 too, yeah?

Which MMOs would you include among the greatest RPGs of all time?

Every morning, the Massively Overpowered writers team up with mascot Mo to ask MMORPG players pointed questions about the massively multiplayer online roleplaying genre. Grab a mug of your preferred beverage and take a stab at answering the question posed in today’s Daily Grind!
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95 Comments on "The Daily Grind: Which MMOs would you include among the greatest RPGs of all time?"

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Andrew Ross
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Andrew Ross

I agree with EVE and WoW, but Asheron’s Call really should be in there, as should Star Wars Galaxies. Lineage 2 probably as well, though as a global title, since it was technically the biggest MMO before WoW was and was significantly more popular than any western MMO at the time.

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David Goodman

I love WoW and happily recommend it, but the thing with MMOs is that they are – at least for me – so dependent on finding a good social circle to be a part of. Even a technologically / mechanically crappy MMO can be good if you have good friends and enjoy being with them.

I mean, I guess it would depend on what part of RPGs you’re looking for – some RPGs are amazing and lauded for their stories; others, for innovative mechanics, or AI and NPC interaction. Very few get all of them right (i do agree with Chrono Trigger being #1 though.)

I would nominate Star Wars: The Old Republic for story – the class stories are great! – but I think the game itself is mediocre and the cash shop regressive and predatory.

World of Warcraft has gone through so many system changes that mechanically it’s hard to say if you like it – some people prefer Vanilla / TBC (we call those people ‘deluded’, but that’s only me picking a fight ;) ), while others like the more modern updates. Is the story great? Depends on where you are – it’s janky to go from Vanilla to TBC because of Cataclysm, but individual expansions – like Legion – are very good.

Hard to nominate an MMO as one of the ‘greatest’ RPGs with so many conflicting things going on.

I wouldn’t nominate any of them honestly. I think MMOs deserve their own category and cannot be lumped in with single player experiences – there’s too much going on OTHER than the RPG aspect.

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Koshelkin

Everquest and Ultima Online as the most important MMOs in the genre’s history.

Wow made the genre mainstream and I’m *not* thankful for that.

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Roger Melly

None of them can really match the greatest single player rpgs but I think the ones that came closest probably are the likes of the Secret World , Lotro , Age of Conan , ESO and Star Wars the Old Republic .

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Haywood Phillips

WoW, GW2, FFXIV, TERA is my list for greatest of all time. All important innovators in the genre, and all have at least some content that I consider “unmatched”.

WoW – Raiding is its standout best. At all difficulty levels, it’s just head and shoulders better than the competition. Polish, encounter design, class roles. Everything about it screams quality. Don’t everything from raid lead, to rank and file raider, to everything in between.
And had fun doing it. Despite it being the most money I’ve ever spent on any one game, I still think it’s the best monetization system AND value around.

GW2 – Continuing story and open world events is what its best at. Living story is just a flat out wonderfully executed idea. The mentor system combined with the timed events, big and small make for a wonderful open world experience. No other game even comes close in that.

FFXIV – The undisputed king of class/job system design (combat AND noncombat) and traditional on the rails rpg storytelling. The fact that it can tell a story better than many full voiced titles speaks volumes. Closest title to being cut from my list due to its slow combat, inaccurate feeling movement detection, and other flaws. But what it does well just shines too brightly to be ignored.

TERA- Absolutely no game I’ve played has done healing, tanking, and dungeon running better than this action combat title. Frequent oneshots at endgame dungeons demand a level of focus that many most endgame raids don’t even demand. I’m a big fan of healing and tanking and I absolutely love healing in tera with a learning group(zero ui whack a mole!), and tanking for an experienced group. Big fan of the arena pvp as well (despite its lack of popularity and rewards). Hands down best action combat title on the market to date. I even prefer their controversial take on gear development and the rng associated with it.

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Teala Te'Jir

UO, Asheron’s Call, EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot.

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Sashaa

Everquest, Star Wars Galaxies, The Lord of The Rings Online… hell, even The Secret World if you can stand the combat system. All to me are great RPGs in a “I don’t always need someone to hold my hand” kind of way.

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mcsleaz

Final Fantasy XI : Chains Of Promathia

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James Edwards

Personally I know most liked the Phantasy Star Online games buy I honestly may be in the minority in saying that i preferred the Phantasy Star Universe series over the Phantasy Star Online series and thus my vote is for PSU series being one of the greatest of all time, the story line and game play aspects were both in my opinion far more enjoyable compared to it’s predecessor series and i sincerely feel it was over looked and underrated. My secondary Vote is for the Asda Story game not the re-releases but the original version with the ballista Ranger branch, of all the mmorpgs i have played the ballista bow style was a rare one never to be seen in another game following it. Lastly my third and final vote would be Divinia Online, for storyline and gameplay as well as game mechanics the graphics could be improved greatly but it was nonetheless a great game and the chatting system was pretty cool but could be expanded with a public chat system upgrade. I have several reasons for my votes but overall the general, nostalgia, story lines, grind and community feel(most mmorpgs nowadays are played dungeon rush style with no need for skill nor actual strategy an element now lost to mmorpg games.)

Zander
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Zander

This MMO I keep playing where the environments are stunning, the physics set the standard and the bad guys are in charge of most of the realm. The problem I have with calling it the best RPG is that a few key members of the player base are destroying the realm, have the most gold and rule how they see fit. They set laws and tax the player population and don’t really explain where this is all going for the future of this great MMO. They just try and convince us that everything is fine and that we should believe in their deities or else we’ll get banned. And yep, there are lots of trolls..

Other than that, great MMO.

miol
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miol

A Tale in the Desert! So much freedom!

http://massivelyop.com/tag/a-tale-in-the-desert/

btw: IGN putting Stardew Valley in top 100 list, but only mentioning Harvest Moon as a sidenote, is a sacrilige! A sacrilige! ;P

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steve

UO, EQ, SWG and WoW. I think those were the primary drivers of innovation, each for different reasons.

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Sajiri

Final Fantasy XI. The story and settings were fantastic, the gameplay was fun and unique compared to any other game out there (including FFXIV which is boredom incarnate in comparison, even if it’s still a decent game). While the game had it’s own issues, I dont think anything else has really compared to it.

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mcsleaz

Skill Chains & Magic Burst’s, The best system I’ve ever seen for engaging party grinding. Why has this not been in FFXIV (at least it wasn’t when last I played)? Every MMO should rip off that system.

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Schmidt.Capela

My own choice of MMOs that deserve a top 100 RPGs spot would include:

– Lord of the Rings Online: not only the ambience is fantastic, it houses the best roleplay community I’ve ever seen in any MMO.

– The Secret World: best storytelling of any MMO I’ve played.

– Ultima Online: I might not play it, but I have to recognize it’s perhaps the best attempt ever to make a massively multiplayer virtual world; its flaws are more due to failing to predict how players would behave in game than to any actual game issue.

– City of Heroes: While LotRO might have the best roleplaying community I’ve ever seen, CoH had the most friendly and helpful overall community; that was a large part of why, despite not standing a couple systems from the game, I still tried to get into the game a handful of times, to the point of CoH being the only game I ever paid for subscription when giving the game a second (and third) chance.

As for the non-MMOs, I agree with much of that list; in particular, I fully agree with the top 3 (Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, and Baldur’s Gate II). I would make some changes, though; aside from some reordering (like putting Oblivion above Morrowind), my pick for the 4th place would be Seiken Densetsu III (non-officially called Secret of Mana 2), which I consider to be better enough than Secret of Mana to deserve a spot despite never having been officially released in the West.

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Tiresias

Final Fantasy 11 and 14 both have very solid main stories.

I played FF11 back when you had to group up to get pretty much anything done. The world was (maybe still is…) super-lethal, and it took days of grinding to get anywhere. Despite that, or perhaps because of it, you would tend to grow very close to your social circle and experience the game’s progression alongside them. It doesn’t feel as much like an “MMO” as a big open world where you can head out and do what you would like. I remember spending WEEKS exploring the world once my White Mage got access to Sneak and Invis, allowing me to move around dangerous and aggressive enemies without being detected. I actually made my fortune that way, mining Adaman and Orichalcum in Ifrit’s Cauldron.

FF14 is just a wonderful romp. It’s much more friendly on the solo or casual player, but the storyline is still great.

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mcsleaz

FFXI was a MOFO’n Masterpiece in it’s day & I don’t think we’ll ever see anything like it again unless Ashes Of Creation delivers.

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starbuck1771

Star Wars Galaxies, EVE Online, & Everquest 2

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nobleeinherjar

My short list would be Ultima Online, EverQuest 2, FFXI, and FFXIV.

I can’t say much for the story of UO, but it’s a great system-driven game where its various mechanics feed into each other in a world that rewards a player’s curiosity and desire to explore (even if that reward is sometimes death).

EQ2 and FFXI are basically themeparks, but players get to choose what rides they wanna go on themselves. In EQ2 especially, I always felt like I had endless options for where I wanted to explore and quest next instead of feeling like I was being guided by a predetermined path. And for players that desire story, both games (FFXI in particular) offer fun and interesting campaigns to play through.

FFXIV is a lot more strict in terms of what players are allowed to do, but an RPG being linear doesn’t make it bad. <.< I could argue that an MMO being linear is bad, but that's another topic. But even if FFXIV isn't my perfect, open-ended MMO, it belongs on the list for its fun, entertaining story. It's not perfect, but even when the story pads itself out and gives you the run-around, I find that the payoff is usually worth it.

My bit longer list would include SWG and LOTRO, because they both offered fans of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings to live in a world they loved, allowing them to explore/learn about it beyond the bounds of their plots and tell their own stories.

Some honorable mentions would be SWTOR (I did love it, once), and Phantasy Star Online (I remember being genuinely horrified at some of the logs I read in the Seabed in Episode 2).

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Serrenity

I can’t include WoW on any ‘RPG’ list anymore – they’ve been steadily stripping away the ‘role-playing’ aspect of it (unless you consider your role to be dps, healer or tank — they aren’t much deeper than that).

I mean, if we look at games where it felt like a realistic character with pros and cons, I think Anarchy Online for me — you could build characters that made absolutely no sense (Atrox Nano Technician), and more or less play them how you wanted, with whatever faction you wanted. I dunno, ESO kinda comes close to that, but is still restrictive in the grand scheme.

I guess I’m more narrowly defining RPG in which I can enjoyably play a game where my character isn’t required to be min/maxed to the Nth degree. I like the act of making trade-offs in my RPGs, of feeling like my choices have consequence internally and externally.

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Shiro Madoushi

FFXI, ultima online, and FFXIV

The only games that ever made me feel like I was part of the world and not just there to grind for progression.

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rafael12104

Oh my, oh my. How my list changes over time. So to answer the question posed, yeah, I have more MMORPGS in my list of RPGs. And yet, it is still surprising to me that they are not at the top. So here is my combined RPG top ten rankings.

10. WoW. MMORPG for the masses.
9. CoH. * sniff*
8. SWTOR. IP preceded this MMORPG but its stories gave it a place of its own.
7. KoTOR. Heh, if you have to ask why? Can’t help ya.
6. Everquest I-II. Trailblazing, literally. If you think some system is new, check out EQ first.
5. Baldurs Gate (all flavors). Dungeon crawling at it’s finest. Set the standard.
4. Ultima Online: The ground breaking Ultima series goes MMO.
3. Diablo 2. The game that showed me that ARPG is great RPG.
2 Witcher 3. Did everything great. Didn’t think it would be surpassed for a long time….
1. Nier Automata. If you haven’t played it yet, drop everything and get to it. It is the best game I’ve ever played, period. Hyperbole? No. Seriously, it is that good.

venatis
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venatis

I loved Nier Automata and I loved the first Nier too. I played Persona 5 recently though and I like that a little bit more.

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rafael12104

Played through the E ending in Automata… was left speechless and teary eyed. IMO, the game is more than a game. But Persona 5 is solid, no question.

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Sray

Maybe I’ll try the Nier demo again, but it really didn’t do anything for me when I tried it the first time. I’ve tried the Witcher 3 a couple times, but the beginning just doesn’t grab me, and a magical fantasy setting like that really has to get my attention fast or else I just roll my eyes too hard to get into it.

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rafael12104

Yeah, there is a Nier Automata demo out there. I’m playing it on PC although I’m not sure the demo is available on PC. It is a pretty good taste, but there is so much more. Skill up has a good review on youtube.

Witcher 3? Yeah, at first, it does feel like going over well covered territory, but once you get past the this is how stuff works part. Wow. A truly open and dangerous world.

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Sray

The tutorial in the Witcher 3 is awful: “here’s some skills; now remember them because you won’t actually be given an opportunity to use them for another hour, at least.”

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rafael12104

Lol. Very true.

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Schmidt.Capela

You should see Dragon Quest VII. Great RPG, but if you are put down by slow starts, that one will be quite a test; the first combat happens roughly two hours into the game.

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rafael12104

Oh yes, I played several questions of Dragon Quest in fact. Great game. I don’t need instant action.

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Nordavind

None of the ones I’ve played. Maybe TSW story wise.

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Vunak

I’d say FFXI makes this list easily. RPGS are generally about going through an interactive story and FFXI definitely has one of if not the best story in an MMORPG to date.

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Utakata

Since I only ever played one play-by-yourself RPG, it would be unfair of me to answer this. :(

Desius
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Desius

Many of the games on that list are nowhere near what I would classify as an RPG.

My list would top with:

1: Everquest 1 – for transforming MUDS into the MMO’s we know today.
2: Ultima Online – The openness of the world and mechanics lent itself to being a very solid platform for roleplaying. The game itself was secondary.
3: City Of Heroes/Villains – Some innovative mechanics and entertaining gameplay. The enemy groups were well developed.
4: Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2 – brought the Forgotten Realms setting to life in a way no previous computer game had done before.
5: Divinity, Original Sin – Great interaction with environments and a successful departure from the typical fantasy tropes.

Short list, there are more I will recall, I’m sure.

Reader

I’ll be the odd one and put out my first MMO: City of Heroes.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

There were times in City when I truly felt like a superhero.

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vinicitur

LOTRO and that’s about it for me. I haven’t played WOW or any of the older MMOs so I can’t really speak about them. But overall I don’t think many other MMOs would end up on the list for me.

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Little Bugbear

1. FF11 – Continued with the success of a great franchise.
2. FF14 – Started bumpy, but is now one of the most popular MMO’s out there.
3. WoW – Is a video game behemoth, that sprung from the Warcraft franchise.
4. EverQuest – One of the founders of the MMO genre.
5. Diablo – Diablo started it’s own genere and is a huge hit.
6. Lineage – Is still played and loved to this day.
7. Runescape – Has brought many MMO gamer’s into the genre including me.

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MesaSage

I think they’re all deserving in their own way and should at least get a participation trophy.

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thirtymil

For me, RPGs are about feeling like you’re the character, not the presents of stats, or dice rolls or similar mechanics. Story/plot, combat, player decisions influencing the world and a lot of the other devices we use to describe RPGs often exist in many other genres but I find it’s only RPGs that I can see myself being there as that character.

Unfortunately, that pretty much precludes MMOs for me. Elder Scrolls Online perhaps came closest with its first person view, and Warcraft I’ve spent enough time to almost imagine I’m there, but not quite. Mind you, maybe I’m just old – the last game that managed to convince me of my role was Oblivion.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

100 percent agree.

ESO makes an effort to make you feel like a thief but some of the mechanics are odd. The weird light carrying guys who can somehow see behind you when you want to sneak up and kosh them. “NONO. The light means you cant hide ANYWHERE there.” *eyeroll

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thirtymil

Agreed – although I had a glimpse of the old Oblivion/Skyrim style of play when I discovered that (in the thief daily delves at least) I could stun those guys with the first stealth arrow shot and finish them off before they could raise the alarm. Happy days :)

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

I am disappointed with the list in that the Thief series was not mentioned. For a game which made you play a rogue and a thief and THINK like a rogue and thief, it is Moss Arrows ahead of many on that list.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

thief are great games but not rpg’s tho. :S

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

Oh how the genre has fallen..

/e faints

/e swoons

/e clutches pearls.

And here I thought RPG stood for a role-playing game. I cast aspersions on the devil which took the name RPG and made it a ROLL-Playing game.

DIABLO I call thee out!

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

10 years ago no one would confuse the thief series for an rpg. it’s that the genre has gone to shit that people would even remotely do so.

go steal a car
put the doors morrison hotel in the 8track
drive until dawn.
find a bar and have a brawl
then steal another car and go back home
buy neverwinter nights collection on gog
and play that until you understand the difference between an rpg and a stealth action game.
then you’ll be a door fan man.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

I honestly don’t remember how I handled the final meeting with Aribeth.

I just remember being very sad.

That said, I stand by my belief that Thief is a ROLE playing game.

and I will fight you over it.

Thumb wrestling at dawn! I’ll even use my left hand.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

if theif is a rpg then so is cod and half life and battlefield and literally just about every video game ever made.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

If they successfully make you feel like a soldier or a uhm…lab tech with a crowbar… *shrugs*, then so be it.

However, I doubt many people actually *FEEL* like Simon Belmont in Castlevania. Esepcially when Frankenstein and his dumbass monkey show up because Frankenstein and a monkey. I mean, come on… breaking my immersion!

I guess for me it comes down to the writing. If the writing draws me in to identify with the character I am playing AND the gameplay does not impede or break immersion then I am good with labeling the game as an RPG.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

so by your definition every game with a compellling story is an rpg.

i’ll suggest to my dnd dm that we play cod together then because it’s an rpg. i’m sure he’ll be thrilled.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

If you want to roleplay as soldiers and you feel like said soldier while playing because the gameplay pushes you that way AND the interface doesn’t draw you out of that, then yes.

Pen and Papers are the same way. Are you playing Aubernath the aging bard whose voice is failing but is looking for an artifact to trade to a questionable being in return for his singing voice OR are you playing Aubernath the bard who has a +5 rapier, has two rings of wizardry, a glamered mithril chainmail, and can roll for critical hits on a 17 to 20?

I’ve played in both types and one is very much role-playing. One is just dice rolling.

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thirtymil

I don’t know, I did Shalebridge Cradle and was pretty sure I was roleplaying a man absolutely scared out of his wits. Because the only other possible explanation would be that I was actually scared out of my wits, and that couldn’t possible be true :)

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i’m pretty sure in cod i roleplay a spec ops soldier. and in half life i roleplay gordan freeman. and in counterstrike i roleplay a counterterrrorist or a terriroist.

it doesn’t make those games rpg’s does it?

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Melissa McDonald

My choices for best ever would be,
1) EverQuest
2) WoW
3) LOTRO

the rest are 2nd tier to me.

Richard de Leon III
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Richard de Leon III

Easily EQ1, WoW, Ultima, and Neverwinter Nights. The remainder would be difficult , I would prolly pick the pioneers of particular types of mmo, like DAOC for pvp faction. CoH for best superhero and community imho.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

the cryptic nw or the bioware/obsidan neverwinter nights?

the latter are some of thebest games in the rpg genre, the former is part of a larger questioning of what the fuck wotc/hasbro/cbs is doing these days.

Richard de Leon III
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Richard de Leon III

bioware of course

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thirtymil

Poor Fenthick.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

vanilla campaign was crap. the expansions however were epic. bioware’s best writing prior or since imo.

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thirtymil

I thoroughly enjoyed the vanilla campaign.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i did too. but i can still admit it wasn’t very good.

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thirtymil

What did you think was wrong with it?

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

aside from the protaganists not being the player character, mostly that it’s a meanding messy story that isn’t very coherent at all.

the expansions were alot better in these regards even if the 2nd expansion came back to aribeth and the first you weren’t quite the hero per say.

i liked nwn2’s vanilla campaign alot more up until after the trial. alot more coherent even with the branches of the story you could do. but after that part it bogs down with teh castle and obviously being rushed (as obsidian often was by their contract partners).

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

I stopped playing nwn2 when i had to join up with the Evil ranger to sneak in to some keep or something or other.

My paladin just wanted to put him to the sword.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

yeah that’s around where it goes off the rails. >> (iirc).

basically it sucks after the trial.

i’ve been told mask of the betrayer expack is one of th ebest crpg campaigns ever tho.

styopa
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styopa

“Top 100” lists are so large, they end up being “lists of ones that didn’t overtly suck”.
Given the number of products from which we’re choosing, I’d say a top 10 of all time is adequate and meaningful.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i’m afraid to look at this list for the offenses i’m sure i’ll take over it, but in general mmorpg’s tend to be a bit lighter on the rpg side of things compared to my own preferences from the genre and it’s something i’ve been regularly frustrated with with regard to video game rpg’s is the lack of rpg in so called rpg’s that are being praised but are pretty much anything other than an rpg imo.

some of the additions to such a list below are like uh what makes that game stand out as an rpg? other than it’s games you personally like in the mmo genre?

if i were to add one game to the list from the mmo genre it would be eve. i don’t think i’ve sampled a more novel take on rpg things in mmo flavour than eve.

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Sray

I agree with pretty much everything you just said, except the part about Eve. I wouldn’t add Eve to the list. But only because it’s already on the list :P

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

looking at the article they even list eve as being on the list. but i guess a mix of reading the other comments first and lacking in coffee lead to my gaffe. XD

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

ha! XD

FVerret
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FVerret

Since those games were included mostly for their significance, it is odd that Ultima Online was left out. That being said, the one MMORPG truly missing from this list of RPGs is Final Fantasy XIV, in my opinion.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

what makes ffxiv a good rpg tho? especially by ign’s standards?

Cyclone Jack
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Cyclone Jack

I’d say FFXIV had a pretty solid main story. As for IGN’s “standards”, I’ll just say that I’ll agree to disagree with their list. They had things in there that I’d never put in the list, and many things were way out of order.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

eh it’s go hundreds of hours of filler padding the good story. idk i don’t think that’s a good thing in ffxiv or swtor.

and yeah i as i say above i don’t want to even look at the list >>

Richard de Leon III
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Richard de Leon III

I daresay FF14 is significant in one respect, being able completely remake a totally unwelcome launch version into a new version with wild acclaim. I dont recall any other mmo being able to do that yet.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

that doesn’t have much bearing on if it’s a good rpg or not tho.

that may be a nice mmo underdog story but not much of a factor in being top 100 rpg of all time.

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adadfor3

While it may not be recorded as one of the greatest RPG’s of all time. Star Wars Galaxies was, for me, by far, the most fun to play. Before the dark times… : )

Richard de Leon III
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Richard de Leon III

Before the Blizzard empire….

Estranged
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Estranged

Blizzard was making high quality games before SWG was a thought and WoW took over the NA genre. They could have bought the old SOE with pocket change.

amadahy
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amadahy

I don’t think what you have linked in ‘Neverwinter Nights’ is what they are talking about. That first game with the DM world building tool, scripting ‘and’ ability to actually dig in and create tiles and objects with 3dmax (while a little beyond what they envisioned) was amazing. I’ll never forget working on that light house.

Didn’t care for NWN2 myself, which I see is on the list far upstream.

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Reht

Unrelated to the question posed, but I find it amazing that the NWN server i played on over 10+ years ago is still up and running….

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

nwn2 had it ‘s flaws but had a better vanilla campaign and arguably some of the best expansion campaigns in the crpg genre ever. it also had a better implementation of dnd rules than bioware’s nwn.

tho yes, it had better multiplayer/map maker that the community modded into persistent mmo like servers. in that it was easier to use than nwn2’s more powerful but harder to use map maker.

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FreecczLaw

I don’t really think any other qualify tbh. You have to put it into perspective of how good and interesting something was at the time of its release and its legacy and personally with seeing how the genre has developed since WoW was released (which for the record was/is a great game) I would not put any other mmorpgs on that list. At least not ones introduced after 2004 as you put it. They have just not been staples of the genre in the same way EQ and WoW for example. To each their own though of course, it is just a list after all.

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Alli

I don’t know, but Dragon Age: Origins was way too far down that list.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i barely consider dao an rpg at all. >>

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Reht

Since they included MMOs but none of the real pvp ones, i offer Dark Age of Camelot and Ultima Online. I also don’t know how you can include Neverwinter Nights 2 and not have Diablo and/or Diablo 3.

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wratts

I don’t know how you could have this list without SWTOR. FFXIV and ESO would also seem strong choices

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

ಠ_ಠ

Richard de Leon III
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Kickstarter Donor
Richard de Leon III

He does have a point. SWTOR’s single player stories and voice acting content are the gold standard for mmos…well, their vanilla stories that is…

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

eh i emphatically disagree with that claim. 90% of swtor’s story and voice acting content is so bad it boggles my mind that people were not only paid to produce it but someone else was paid to approve it. that’s how bad it is.

it’s not only not even decent by mmo standards in a genre filled with bad pop culture references and meme filled story telling, it’s bad in terms of non rpg game stories where the much hated cod’s can tell compelling stories with out bad fanfiction quality tropes that innundates bioware’s games and is taken to the nth degree in this particular game.

nevermind the fact that i still have “this is a trifling matter” stuck in my head 5 years later because it was repeated so often as my character’s response to everything for 100 hours.

i’m glad people find enjoyment in the game, but in terms of the larger rpg genre and in games in general, supposing that story telling is a defining element of rpg’s to begin with which i beg to argue in general, the bulk of it isn’t particular good to begin with.

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Schmidt.Capela

TOR is what happens when you try to shoehorn Bioware-style single-player RPG storytelling into an incompatible medium. A MMO isn’t the right place for having meaningful choices that can permanently hinder the character, alter the setting, or even cause a game-over.

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wratts

I know you ain’t eyeballin’ me son! 😜

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