Global Chat: Secret World Legends edition

Over the past week, many MMO bloggers returned to the conspiracy-laden regions of Secret World Legends to see if they could answer the million-dollar question: Is this reboot and relaunch any good?

Today, we’re going to devote the full column to some of these impressions, starting with Ayren Sojourner, who identifies several problems with the launch of the game as a returning fan.

“I get that they want to walk new players through all the possible side-quest types. But man… I get thrown into a cutscene, then into a graveyard, then into some fragmented raid-something-something that I was familiar with, but would have been extremely confused by if I were a totally new player. Then more cutscenes. Then London. And now that Tokyo scenario that TSW used to start with. I’m still not out of cutscenes,” she wrote.

“I am cautiously optimistic for the game and I really hope that they’re going to do well,” Nerdy Bookahs wrote, “because what I have seen so far is really awesome and I really really hope that I can get into the game properly now. It’s such a fantastic setting and as I already said the atmosphere is amazing and I really want to explore that world!”

Mel Brankin appreciated some of the changes: “I did notice a lot of the quests were improved, a few steps removed or some of the challenge dropped down a notch, which for me was welcome. A bit of the zombie trash in the first zone seemed to removed which again made fora  better flow and the mobs themselves had their damage reduced somewhat from what I could tell (or players buffed a lot, I’m not sure which).”

“Not much has changed in the revamp,” Stargrace notes. “Weapons and combat work differently. Classes do basically the same thing. Things don’t hit as hard. There are people everywhere.”

Gryph is over the moon: “When you’ve been playing TSW for years it can be easy to forget how absolutely gorgeous it is. How *every damn character* with extra dialogue options is worth listening to. How the writing is both supremely clever, and succeeds in pulling you ever deeper into the story, into the world.”

Many bloggers agreed that the revamped game is more newbie friendly. “I think this’ll be a good step in helping new players become comfortable with the game. Old timers might think this is holding someone’s hand, but in a game that can be complex and intricate like SWL/TSW, a little help up at the start of your character can help retain more players,” Rambling Redshirt said.

“Fun was a long time coming. The new interface is both ugly and unintuitive. I spent longer than I would have liked just clicking on stuff to see how it worked and when I had that sorted I was underwhelmed with the options on hand,” Bhagpuss said. “I found the ‘action’ UI to be irritating. Really quite irritating. I don’t like ARPG controls but I’m very familiar with them and I can tell good from bad. These are bad.”

“It’s a great game, with a variety of quest types and combat options,” Atheren blogged. “It couldn’t have a more distinctive atmosphere. For people like myself who have been reading horror tales and ghost stories for ages, it doesn’t get much better than this.”

Every day there are tons of terrific, insightful, and unusual articles posted across the MMO gaming blogosphere — and every day, Justin reads as many as he can. Global Chat is a sampling of noteworthy essays, rants, and guides from the past few weeks of MMO discourse.
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178 Comments on "Global Chat: Secret World Legends edition"

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Sorenthaz

One thing I’ve heard about the dungeon keys from a friend (who’s been playing it a good amount and is enjoying it) is that you get the most value out of them by saving them for the final boss’s chest drop or w/e. Probably part of the complaint comes from folks who are just opening the chests immediately upon defeating any boss.

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enamel

TSW was my favorite MMO, and now SWL takes that spot :)

Loving the reboot so far, and glad to see so many people are positive on it too. They left my favorite stuff alone (story, writing) and changed what so many people had issues with (combat). The weapons are a lot more straight forward while still offering branches to customize your build and I think the specializations are great.

The value in the sub seems to be cheap cache keys. Paying with the cash shop currency means those keys are $1-$1.50, but with the sub, logging in every day give you keys around the $0.40 mark. I want to support the game so I will probably sub and do something I have never done in a game ever – open loot crates.

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Oleg Chebeneev

Since im lifetime member I opened few cashes. Its always 3 items. For me it was usually 10 of special currency, one blue upgrade injection and one epic upgrade injection

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enamel

Hmm, the upgrade injections are nice and functional, but I was hoping for something a bit more flashy I suppose.

Mewmew
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Mewmew

I didn’t think the new beginning was fragmented or confusing. It’s all explained pretty well to you what’s going on and how you’re in a dream and then a vision.

I liked the old “more confusing” combat setup though. Maybe it’s because I used mostly Blood, and I don’t like the new Blood as much. I can’t really judge about how much other types have changed for the better or worse. I get that they thought they were dumbing it down a bit from the old giant wheel and stuff but I’m not usually for dumbing down of systems especially in a game where you need to think more to begin with.

It’s funny a lot of the quest stuff was made easier here to figure out and follow in game but there are still the whiners used to having every step of a quest hand holding for them and never having to use their brains at all. That’s not the type of game this is though, it’s about the world and story and lore, if you’re just there for action combat this is the wrong game for you still.

It always had amazing stories and quests, I’m glad that a lot of new people that never got to see them will get to see them now. They really are the best part. I don’t think they made the new combat as good as they felt they were going to in comparison to the old, and the new character models are so beautiful (realistic skin and such) that they look almost out of the place with the NPCs that didn’t get this same makeover. Overall it’s always been an amazing game and still is, despite me not really being a fan of the combat changes.

Crow
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Crow

I’ve come a full 180 on SWL. I was put-off by the process and the tight-lipped-ness of the devs throughout the cycle. I was utterly expecting something even worse than EPE and somewhat unfairly wrote off SWL. Even in the earlier Beta, I didn’t feel like the game was that improved and didn’t go too far into the testing.

All that said, this is overwhelmingly positive. I love many of the new systems, especially the gear upgrading which is great because it doesn’t punish you for upgrading anything. You can spend some time looking for the “right” gear and meanwhile you don’t only not get punished for upgrading non-essential bits, but those non-essential bits are “placeholders” until you can fuse in the “right” item.

New Agartha is awesome.

Action Combat is acceptable and fine. The streamlining and paring down of the abilities is overall a positive, because Funcom was never great at balancing such an unwieldy field of “equal” abilities. This is more to-the-point. Moreso, it appears every build is pretty much “viable” and the days of a huge skill wheel where only 10% of the skills were worthwhile is done. I’m sure we’ll get optimized builds, but you don’t need to jump through hoops to survive anymore.

Which goes to the fact that it feels like Funcom’s process was actually very good in terms of “fixing” things. They looked, it seems, at every bit of the game that players needed to find a “trick” around to make it work and eliminated the middle-man (be it a mod or a trick or a convention.) Everyone was in survival builds with specific weapons in TSW for story content. So in SWL every build is basically a survival build, eliminating the need to sort through tons of crap to find what works.

Haven’t hit NM level yet, but the story dungeons are harder than before. This is good. Not as difficult, at all, as at launch but still tougher than EPE’s nonsense easy-mode.

Overall, I have faith and I’m playing SWL like it is 2012. So many new people, and whatever else you can say TSW/SWL has the best story in MMORPGs, still.

Good luck to everyone. Remember to do your dailies and sell on the exchange!

Reader
Malcolm Swoboda

There is no Elite or Nightmare at the moment. Endgame is, I believe, the last Story dungeons, some form of Scenarios, Lairs, repeating Transylvania missions, PVP?

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Geoffrey Smith

The dungeons are something I wanted to point out as well.

Story mode is clearly designed to be challenging, but doable, at appropriate gear/level. If you plan out your build and know the boss mechanics, you can do it relatively easy, which should be the point as it is rewarding your knowledge and tactics. But if you try to do it undergeared or underleveled, you will fail.

The limiting of it to keys also makes sense because of the gearing system. Since EVERYTHING you get can go into upgrading your gear, without limits, someone could just run Polaris and nothing but for a week to max out their gear without doing any other content. This would be bad. The game now actually encourages you to explore both the content and the missions to max out your character. Much, much better system than what was in place.

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Oleg Chebeneev

I was critical about SWL before and still am about few things (leaving original TSW to rot, over the top melee particle effects, small font, not bringing some new content for reboot) . But I have to give credit to Funcom, vast majority of changes are positive ones and Im enjoying SWL atm. Its good to see an active global chat, alot of people in Agartha, new challenges. New controls fit better imo. And I much more prefer new crafting system over almost useless old one.

With all its flaws and server going offline constantly, I think TSW relaunch was a success and will be even more so when game launches on Steam.

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Ben Stone

I much prefer the new UI. Some specs are still a bit clunky, I hope they continue to improve some animations / effects (chaos magic I am looking at you). Still I am enjoying it far more than the original and I played all the way through Tokyo.

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Tithian

It has greately re-invigorated my interest in the game, I’ll tell you that. Combat is much more enjoyable now that it has been sped up a little, to the extent that I was not dodging mobs like I used to in TSW. I actually enjoyed killing Akabs.

I keep hearing about how shit the monetization is, and it boggles my mind. Of course they need to monetize more aggresively than in TSW, the lack of it is why TSW died in the first place. Almost everyone that was left playing was a GM with all content unlocked, a stipend of freebie points and absolutely no incentives to spend any money. It’s already proven that people will not pay for content, even quality content, and the game is not sustainable through cosmetics only.

Would I like it if there were more perks in the Patron package? Well, considering I’m lifetime, yes. absolutely. Would people scream at the top of their lungs that Patron provides too huge of an advantage and that it’s mandatory/P2W/whatever? Abso-freakin-lutely, just look at the backlash that SWtOR gets everytime monetization comes up.

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Dima Wisotski

“It’s already proven that people will not pay for content, even quality content, and the game is not sustainable through cosmetics only.”

Umm….ESO? People are more than willing to pay for content. Its all the tehnical issues, and absolute lack of Funcom’s ability to fix them, and at times – blatant lying in patch notes about fixing issues that drove people away initially. And what then killed them game was the content simply drying up.

The game was a disasster on lauch. Complete technical disaster. The B2P relaunch didn’t work because they fixed nothing . Heck, do you know what did I get within first 5 minutes of me playing Secret World Legends – I get disconnected from community server, and loose my chat/cabal/group functionality for like half an hour. That was an issue present in The Secret World on launch. They claimed to fix it at least 4 times, then blamed the fact that people left and they cant recreate the load situation on their community server for their inability to diagnose and fix it. And in re-release – its here again. Tons of other bugs, issues and glitches from original game are here. Hell – the damn double-weapon model graphical glitch is still absolutely here.

People’s willingness to give money to developers relies on developer’s listening to people and fixing issues people have problem with. Funcom never, ever does it – they can’t even include the goddamn new CUDA DLLs, still have ones from 2011 – which actually hurts the performance on newer nVidia GPUs – but apparently, any modification to the engine, even trivial one, is difficult now because most of the people who worked on the engine left, and Funcom is switching to Unreal4 for all their new projects, so they dont give a damn.

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Tithian

The devs specifically mentioned that the Issues they were putting out were not selling enough, to even cover the production costs. And ESO definitely doesn’t rely just on content updates to make money. Far from it.

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Matt Redding

I think there was some horse before the cart things happening there. They were on such a skeleton crew that the content they were putting out was far apart, so enthusiasm waned; and some of the content was not that great. For instance, I bought the Tokyo dungeon issue before I realized it was JUST the dungeons and that my AEGIS wasn’t quite good enough to run them. And, by the time my AEGIS was, nobody wanted to run them! So that was wasted money. The side story combo pack actively irritated a lot of people. After Tokyo the final issues were basically fancy side stories and at that point I wanted to move on to “story 2.0” I’m not surprised they might be less popular.

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Dima Wisotski

ESO relies on combination of content and cosmetics and convenience. The fact that you get all the content for free is what makes ESO sub appear worthwhile. While in Secret World Legends, the sub is nearly worthless. It almost feels like their main thought was to make sure cash shop will be mandatory regardless of sub, and to make sure that at no point, one will feel like sub offers him enough benefit and convenience to the point he forgets and doesnt care about cash shop.

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Sorenthaz

Well yeah Dima, that’s the point. They’re adopting Trion’s “patron” model where it doesn’t actually give you anything substantial and you’re forced to buy from the cash shop if you want anything from it.

The whole idea behind it is that they don’t want people to sit comfortably on their subscriptions. They want people to pay extra to get the extras from the cash shop, and the sub is just for some bonuses.

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Dima Wisotski

In this day and age, they can fuck right off with this approach. 15$ a month + more in the cash shop….yeah. There are whole games on steam sale right now, which are flat out better, and cost less.

Out of all the ways to do it, Funcom picked the most desperate and unrealistic – they are hoping to catch a few whales that will sustain the game. And the rest of the fans – well, screw them, their meager 15$ per month wont sustain a company that has massive depts and barely making ends meet.

Well, if thats their attitude, then screw Funcom I guess. Only thing I regret is getting a few people to try this. Luckily, all of them saw past Failscum’s B$.

Crow
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Crow

The cash shop is so not mandatory.

While it is not open now, the Exchange means you’re always able to make more marks. Buying Arum is for the impatient. Get Marks, buy Arum, buy unlocks/stuffs.

This is far better than STO/NW’s exchange system. Make good use of your ten AH slots a day and you can make 10’s of thousands of Marks every day which makes the whole thing pretty simple.

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Tithian

@Dima

Putting the issues and future content under a sub option would make a lot of people ragequit instantly, definitely a lot more than those outraged by the presence of a cash shop.

I mean, you are presenting as a solution a tried model that has already failed. I was in TSW from the beginning, and saw first hand the unsustainability of the sub+shop model, or the content+shop model later on. ESO may be able to pull it off, because they have one of the biggest IPs in the industry and a large company backing them – and even they had to ditch the mandatory sub; and they still have to sell convenience and cosmetics on top of that to be viable.

@Crow

Obviously the shop is not mandatory, people are annoyed by the fact that things are time-gated. They cannot spam dungeons 4 hours per day or farm for rank 30 epic gear 3 days after release unless they pay, which one would guess is par for the course in a F2P game, but for players coming from “legacy” TSW where they (we) had full access to everything for free, expectations were skewed.

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Ben Stone

Yeah I have absolutely no incentive to subscribe, and that’s probably a good thing because as you mentioned there are too many people with unlimited patron. Hopefully they develop some cool pets / runs / outfits worth paying for in the shop so players can support them.

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Tithian

As it should be, IMO.

Let’s face it, monetization in F2P games is never aimed at you, me or the average player. We are more than welcome to spend the odd penny here and there, but SWL will make most of its money from the whales that have no qualms buying dungeon keys by the dozens, or opening tens of lockboxes each day. The majority of the complaints are coming from people that want the ‘whale experience’ without havint to commit a ‘whale wallet’.

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Mikka Hansen

tsw died because of the combat, and I have no doubts swl will die for the same reason soon enough

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BalsBigBrother

I suspect it will me the monetisation that will do it in this time round, which is a little ironic considering that they did all this to get money /sigh

Crow
Reader
Crow

Actually, I suspect the monitization will keep it open this time around.

Anyone who can play with some regularity will find that buying Arum with Marks isn’t like STO/NW but is bred into the very fabric of the game’s mechanics.

Honestly, anything that costs Arum actually just costs Marks. Marks that, in a few months, you’ll not know what to do with because you have so many.

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Sorenthaz

SWL is essentially using Trion’s model with RIFT, and look where that game is now after only a few years later. The content pace has died down massively, there are now plenty of “tricks” and “traps” in place to ensure people spend money past a point, and a subscription is basically mandatory if you don’t want to progress at a snail’s pace.

Legends could differ but I’m hardly optimistic. This is a desperate attempt to attract whales and then the game will come down to depending heavily on them. Which will lead to eventually more mandatory purchases and more inconveniences if you aren’t willing to shell out an exorbitant amount of money.

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Geoffrey Smith

You are missing a massive difference between Rift and SWL, the exchange. The model is more based around STO/Neverwinter than right.

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Geoffrey Smith

Well, clothing. I would hazard a guess that when they expand things like clothing options, it won’t be just for Aurum, they will also do it with Marks. As a way to help drain them out of the economy. There are already many vanity items that only cost Marks.

Crow
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Crow

Absolutely, but people also need to, I think, stop treating Aurum as some cash-only currency. Aurum is Marks converted. Same thing!

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Geoffrey Smith

Agreed.

I also think it is a matter of people not fully understanding how the new gearing system works and what is necessary for it.

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Dušan Frolkovič

Ok, so after a few days of playing, i can confidently say that for me it is a better game.

1.) The main things i enjoyed about TSW (setting, quest design, investigations) are still there.
2.) The main things that i disliked are improved: Combat could not have gotten worse from TSW (again, personal opinion), so the very incremental change to the combat was welcome. The difficulty of some frustrating passages was adjusted.
3.) Small changes i really appreciated (different icons for completed/incomplete quests, the visual indicator for the “tracking” missions, more visible laser grids)
4.) The new ability system i have no opinion yet on, will see with time. I know there are less abilities, on the other hand how much of the old wheel was being really utilized.

It is probably an advantage that i went through TSW only once, so the content is still fresh for me, but if they really start a season 2, i am in all the replay way.

Minimalistway
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Minimalistway

So far enjoying the game, one thing i didn’t like is telling me to reach a level before i can keep doing the main story line, i didn’t like that, TSW was level-less which i admired, but that’s not a big issue, doing side missions will be enough to level.

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Geoffrey Smith

But it wasn’t levelless. You couldn’t go through the blue mission alone, you HAD to do side missions to get better gear and abilities.

All they did was max explicit what was implicit before.

Crow
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Crow

Yeah, I have to agree. Not having levels was nice, but there was plenty of vertical gear grinding and the game abandoned the “horizontal” advancement with EPEEN. Honestly, it just means people don’t get totally screwed by being gear-poor as upgrading makes a HUGE difference and gaining levels better places you on a solid footing for clearing content.

Which is another positive, I think. Overall I think they ramped up the combat difficulty again. Nowhere close to launch, but it isn’t EPE when all mobs outside of Kaiden were suddenly turned to paper.

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Geoffrey Smith

Honestly, I think the current “ease” people are talking about is related to the fact they streamlined the weapons and how they work. You can’t really make a “bad” build right now, or “Screw up” and buy abilities you can’t use. Which you could EASILY do in TSW.

My wife took fists and shotguns in TSW, cause she liked them and wanted that, and couldn’t do anything in the game because it was a terrible combo and didn’t work well. And you can’t just, respec, so she had to go back and do different things. They got rid of that. Good for them.

Crow
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Crow

I love it. They saw everyone in specific, narrow “survival builds” so they made that the default. Smart move.

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Geoffrey Smith

Me too. And I love, love, love, what they did with my AR healing. They basically made Anima burst a basic, spammable attack.

I am totally going to be healing at end game, once it comes to that. I may actually DO the NY Raid for the first time (asuming that is in game, I didn’t see it from the guy in the laundromat in Brooklyn on my Illuminati so I am not sure if it is right now).

Crow
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Crow

Oh man… I was so excited to see NYR Lurker in the intro!

If you’ve never done the Raid… OMG it is awesome. So worth it.

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Geoffrey Smith

I would love to do it. I am just hoping it will be in the game by the time I am up there to do it. I am curious to see how they rework it to match the new system.

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Dušan Frolkovič

I agree that the story quest level gates are very hamfisted, on the other hand in the original game i would be running into difficulty walls without warning.
So i agree with the intention, only the execution could have been more subtle.

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Chester Rico

I uninstalled after 3 days.

Most horrible monetization I’ve ever seen (worse than Neverwinter).
Subscription is completely worthless, terrible value. You have to log in daily to even profit from it. The extras you get from it are a joke (they don’t even give you an extra currency allowance, or inventory space, or faster sprinting. All you get are 10% more XP and slightly more keys for the gambling boxes.)

I got the weapon unlocks because I played the original, but even filling out a 3rd weapon tree would take me months at max level. (AP and SP takes forever to get.) If you’re a new player you’ll be stuck with your two starting weapons for a long, long time.
In the old game you could start branching out almost immediately.

No more build flexibility, dumbed down skill system (say what you will about the old skill wheel, it was somewhat flexible.)

Dungeons don’t drop gear, they drop gambling boxes (*very* limited amount of keys for them per day, more are only available with real money.)

New combat system is… different, but not an improvement for me (I didn’t mind the oldschool system), but that’s just my opinion.

The new gear progression system is… interesting, but ultimately worthless if you want to do another role. The way it works is you get some gear provided at specific points in the story, but leveling up (or even obtaining) different gear for, say, tank or healer specs is next to impossible (could work if you spend a couple hundred dollars on gambleboxes I guess.)

I would accept that TSW is dead and that this is a barely functional pseudo-mmo just to keep the (admittedly) good story alive for posterity, but the monetization has soured me on it.

RIP TSW. We’ve had good times together.

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Geoffrey Smith

It’s pretty easy to build a secondary set. I already have a healer set building up by healer gear I am getting from side quests and distillates I get from running dungeons. Heck, my healer set is actually a couple of pieces of extraordinary gear from dungeons. Didn’t have to spend anything on Agarthan caches to do it.

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Armsbend

Last night I attempted to log in for the first time – received a dimension full try another error with no discernible option I could find.

Sound familiar anyone?

Estranged
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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Yeah, I tried off and on for about 5 minutes and made it into game.

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Roger Melly

I played the base game of TSW several years ago up until Transylvania but never got any of the issues . Coming back to it ( I think 5 years later ) so far has been a good experience . It’s been a long enough time that I am not comparing the two games and I can’t easily remember the solutions to most of the puzzles either . I think perhaps killing mobs is slightly easier than I remember but I am only in the first area of Kingsmouth and it has been a long time so my memory could be slightly askew .

Estranged
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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Welcome back!

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Jennifer Yaner

I think they simplified the game, in a good way. It’s easier to grasp now because the old way they did classes was really overwhelming for new players. I remember the first time I played it I was lost and I had to do extensive research. It’s a lot easier to pick up now.

They did manage to screw up group content though with limitation on loot and runs. They need to fix this ASAP or it is going to kill the end game PvE.

I hope it breathes new life into the game because TSW is definitely a good game.

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Koshelkin

You just can’t touch this.

Screenshot (404).png
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Dima Wisotski

The story is ok – because they didn’t really change it. It was always good. So is the art style, lore and puzzles.

The combat is same clunky shit – but now, you are forced to use mouse aim, which is even more clunky. The new resource systems are uninspired, they tried to ape some of more modern action based MMOs, but the combat just isnt fluid enough. Even more – tons of unresponsiveness can sometimes cause issues. Like when you use AR, and you try to use grenades – but the skills just dont trigger and you blow yourself up.

The new dungeon loot system is absolutely abhorrent. Its disgusting.

Also – the way the subscription works, its the exact opposite to why people subscribe. I am subscibing to MMOs because I want to play at my leisure – I dont have time to log and play every day. I want not to worry about visiting cash shop to buy necessities, or dungeon keys, or shit. I wanna sub, get acess to everything, and play. The sub in this game requires you to log in daily to get benefits. It is piss poor value.

In fact – this game has some of the worst monetization I’ve seen yet.

Uninstalled after 3 days. Will make sure to spread the word, will recommend against it to anyone.

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Jeremiah Wagner

I find the combat boring as hell. Maybe the rest is good, but I will never know because I get bored after 1 hour and give up. I have tried 4 times in the last couple days and cant handle playing more then an hour in one sitting. :( oh well.

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Rolan Storm

After reading article I thought I am the only one happy about SWL. Bought patron right off the bat. What’s not to like? Don’t know, MMORPG crowd always so picky. I am with commenters who says that it’s between fine and good.

I like new combat. For real. This time Blood Magic works for me like a charm. I love re-playing the game. Easier, yeah. But I guess I have to leave Kingsmouth to find something harder. Also pointers doesn’t hurt as well as (free for patrons) anima jumping. Generally game became more friendly. If you want hard fights kill big bosses single-handedly. I killed that Cthulhu guy in eastern part of Kingsmouth map. Was fun.

P.S. One thing is really bad – mouth animation. NPC open mouth too wide when they talk. Too much creepy in my horror . :D

hurbster
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hurbster

Just put a bloody shop in that sells basic weapons so we can play how we want !

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Malcolm Swoboda

I think Kingsmouth vendor should have white items for sale to make sure we’re never totally lacking, but that’s about it.

Estranged
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Estranged

Yeah, I was thinking about that man.

Reader
Hirku

AHA! I’ve always suspected you were you, and I was right!

Estranged
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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Hirku – I was lazy. Website swapped over and I used my other common internet user name on a whim.

Sorry for hiding in plain sight.

Plus, this coffee cup robe is sexy as hell!

Estranged
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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

I wish we would let first time players give their actual opinion versus guessing what they would think.

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Bruno Brito

Long time no see!

Estranged
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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Bruno – hello, my Brazilian friend!

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Nick Smith

I want to jump into this so badly, but waiting on the steam release as that’s where my gaming money gets stashed into. I’ll still be able to link to my old TSW account through steam right?

Mattaui
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Mattaui

I’d go ahead and link your account via Funcom’s site since they’ve indicated that there’s a time limit on doing so.

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Kickstarter Donor
Dividion

That doesn’t run out until late August though.

xpsync
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xpsync

Guild chat last night someone mentioned they thought it felt like the NGE. Several peeps quickly pointed out this is no NGE, for the simple reason, this is better not worse.

If people feel it’s newb friendly then call me a newb, this is so much better and much more sensible then ever before. It feels like an MMO now as it has the standard staples which continually make you feel like your progressing and ample carrots to strive for.

I’ve clicked with SW like never before. Kudos Funcom!

Line
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Line

The combat is serviceable, and the more streamlined skill system (which is better than I was expecting honestly, I kinda like that skills have their use in certain situations with the right passives, it’s not so clear what’s best when you consider sustain) makes it okay to play.
Not great, but it’s playable. Add the overall easy difficulty (maybe Transylvania will get harder… it’s not for now) and you do have a nice little MMO-lite with plenty of free story to explore; even with friends, if you want.
I like it, as a side game.

For the more invested players though… the cash shop doesn’t feel too good.
And not even because it’s super predatory, but because it’s super boring to upgrade your stuff or get lootboxes with keys that can’t be found without paying real money.
Sure, paying would make things faster… but be it by spending $10 or three days, do you really want to get some random +weapon XP in a dungeon chest? It’s just a whole lot of “whatever”, minor upgrades that are boring and just not enticing.

Lootboxes usually push you to pay for the “thrill” of winning something cool.
When the something cool is replaced by a handful of slight bonuses that you slowly get otherwise by just doing… stuff… well, tough luck.

I’m worried that they just don’t have much of a money making system here.
Playing for free in group content doesn’t feel super rewarding… but paying doesn’t help it one bit either, which is strange.
Maybe they should guarantee loot X times every day, and let people buy more loot chances instead of using keys? Seems more interesting than blowing real money on the same standard chance to likely get nothing of value.

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BalsBigBrother

You will reach a point when upgrading your inventory, sprint and I am led to believe equipment / weapons where you cannot directly upgrade using Mark of Favour and have to spend Aurum.

How you acquire it well the easiest and quickest way is obviously to pay for it straight up with cold hard cash. Which I am sure is what Funcom hope you do seen as they wave that option in your face on a lot of the UI for various things. Of course you can grind MoF (with its daily cap) and then try your luck on the exchange and hope you don’t get a bum deal but yeah …. not a fan of that either.

Crow
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Crow

try your luck on the exchange and hope you don’t get a bum deal but yeah …. not a fan of that either.

Luck isn’t much to do with the Aurum-MoF exchange. You place buy and sell orders, so there’s not much randomness. “Playing” that market will be long-term, but likely more based on predicting the market movement and Arum value than in getting lucky in any way.

We’ll see where the Exchange ends up once it comes back up again today, but I’d suggest that getting Arum via Marks won’t be too difficult and won’t be a large barrier to endgame characters who play frequently and do their dailies.

The biggest bit is that selling various three-pip stuffs makes for a lucrative return in Marks. If you’re smart and reserve those 10 AH slots a day for high-value stuffs you can see quite the return on exchange. We’ll, again, see how the market ends up falling (more people now) but three-pip weapons were going for 10k Marks on low side before the market went offline. That’s doubling your daily Mark gain.I suspect that via the Exchange dedicated players will be swimming in Marks and eventually trading them in for Aurum will seem to not be that bad of an idea.

And overall, I don’t think it will backfire poorly. People will still rip open their wallets and especially they’ll pay when they begin. New players have even bigger grinds, and dropping some cash on a f2p game at beginning is common enough.

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Malcolm Swoboda

Yeah I’m hoping I can go: do dungeons and missions (Challenges), get 3-pip items I don’t need anymore/now (and eventually more common distillates and such), sell on AH for 100s-10ks of marks, do more dungeons when I like, pay Marks (you can do it this way right? I’m not at Polaris Story yet) to open more chests, get more loot, repeat.

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BalsBigBrother

Oh yay because I always enjoyed playing the AH game /sigh

Crow
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Crow

It won’t be bad, I promise. Most of the time you’ll just grind out some Marks and put in a buy order… BOOM you get Arum.

We’ll see where the market ends up sitting, but 500 Arum was going for ~40k Marks before the market got screwed by exploits. That’s very much a small amount of Marks once you take into account selling stuff on Exchange. Marks will come quick once we get the hang of using the Exchange to dump unneeded stuffs.

Stuff that costs Aurum is basically just stuff that costs Marks with an option to pay-direct if you want. Expensive, but so far not very prohibitive for someone playing frequently.

And if you want to trace it back further, the whole of SWL is basically just “run missions” which is what the game really is about at core.

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Geoffrey Smith

Right, I really think once the exchange starts working again (later today hopefully!) it will help with people getting around the pay wall, especially in the beginning when Marks will be low due to the daily soft caps.

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Crow

I’ve been saving up three-pips to sell once Market comes up again… I likely have 50k Marks worth of stuff if the rates are similar. I’ll be happy with less, even.

I actually thought I was being clever because right before the marketplace went down I bought a three-pip energy ele focus at 3am saying to myself, “I’ll just sell this stuff tomorrow and make back the marks…” My bags are needing more space due to keeping around all these three-pips for exchange.

Arum=Marks. And to be frank, I think the larger, increased grind is a better thing. That goes double when BOTH the casual and hardcore ranges end up being mostly, “Just run missions… get loot… upgrade… enjoy.”

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Geoffrey Smith

I have no idea what the rates will be when it comes up, mostly because now that people have had days to build up Marks with no exchange or AH to dump them on. In fact, it might be an initial boom to Aurum people to get some excess amount of Marks that have been built up. Sad I will be at work till later today and might miss out.

Crow
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Crow

I’d suggest waiting a day for the market to stabilize. It is such a crap-shoot to advantage chaos.

Polyanna
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Polyanna

Is there any difference in how the world works and players enter or travel around it now? Because I thought that their “big” change was going to be ripping the content out of the “MMO” and dumping it into an “ARPG,” whatever that means.

Is anything different at all now about how the world actually works in the game? Is Agartha still a thing? Is it just like a town hub where you portal out to instanced adventure zones with a party? Is it all just a lobby based dungeon grinder?

Or is it, like others have said, just the same old game with some sketchy UI tweaks, and a ridiculous cash-milking loot system?

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BalsBigBrother

Functionally how the game works is still same old mmo quest / dungeon / raids /pvp as per TSW. Zones beyond a few story instances are not exclusive instances and you will still meet random folks doing quests and running around. They changed the mechanics of how you fight, get gear and moved the hub into Agartha but essentially yeah its the same old game that you either loved or not as the case may be.

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Castagere Shaikura

Its kind of sad reading some of the comments from those veteran players that are real bitter about the changes to the game. It was either do this or shut down the game. I’M veteran player that got as far as Transylvania only. So i had to start over too. But where i’m different about it is i don’t mind doing it. I think what we got is a better game in alot of ways. I do think they need to ease up a little on those f2p restrictions. Some are calling it worse than swtor’s.

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Dima Wisotski

The main difference is that SWTOR has 2 ways of playing it :

1) Play for free, and get nickel-and-dimed for everything, like most other F2P games.

2) Pay a sub, and get all the restrictions lifted, all the content, smooth experience worthy of paying every month.

SWL has tons of restrictions, but the sub barely helps. Here is the thing – I dont want to deal with F2P bullshit, but I understand the need for developers to earn. Which is why I prefer to just pay the sub fee and get the hassle-free gaming experience in the limited time I have. But Legends – they want me to pay the sub, then log in daily, and then still force me in every way they can to use cash shop.

The thing is – yes, the story is great, quests are great and lore is great. But you only go through it once, maybe twice. Any player will eventually be over with the story – what else to do in Legends at that point? The game is loot-box galore, like the worst asian F2P whalefests once you look past the story content.

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Estranged

People are interesting. You get everything for free in SWL and that isn’t enough?

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BalsBigBrother

I am criticising the game as a vet not because I am bitter but because I think Funcom have made some miscalculations that unless they correct them will end with things just being shut down. So my choice is to sit here, get what fun I can and wait for the inevitable or post constructive criticism and hope someone notices. Which do you think is the most useful in the long term?

Being critical isn’t always a result of bitterness or hate despite what some folks may well peddle on the internet. Take that as you wish but I am not bitter I care about the game, I want it to success and for me unless some things change further it won’t be.

Time will tell who is correct :-)

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Koshelkin

SWTOR’s restriction are bigger and you’re not able to unlock everything with in-game currency. I tried playing SWTOR without a sub but I couldn’t. I’m a lifetimer in TSW/SWL and taking the game slowly again and the progression curve didn’t change in the least in comparison to TSW at launch. Later on I’ll be able to progress faster because of more dungeon keys+shorter mission cd but atm, for a new player, this makes a negligible difference and the xp bonus i’m getting rather hurts(me) as I’m always higher in level than the current missions. Even my sprint is currently around the level it would have been at launch and I didn’t use the auction house once, so far. The biggest advantage for me atm is probably the free teleport/anima leap.

I’m following the storyline and try to do every mission in the order their somewhat supposed to be done.

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Russell Hunt

Played it when it first launched but something was not quite right…love it now. Think it’s the access, combat and simply the general ease of it all.

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biophazer242

What I find funny is that since I started dabbling with SWL I have had more of a desire to go back and replay TSW than to continue on in their f2p model. I own all the dlc for TSW and I am having a hard time seeing the possibility that they will really make any new content for SWL. I think they will eventually release all the content into the game and just sunset this too.

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Dug From The Earth

What i dont get is how they managed to introduce so many new bugs and glitches to content that has been in the game for years. So many dialogs and cutscenes have ridiculous glitches and bugs now that never used to exists.

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Koshelkin

I didn’t find new ones but sure as sure the old bugs I’m still seeing will probably never be fixed.

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Paragon Lost

LOL! Yeah, it’s actually as you probably know a Funcom hallmark. Heh. Anyhow off to go for a ride. Spent about as much time as I want today on the computer. Retirement has it’s ups and downs. lol

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Travis Beaty

The game’s alright, but when checking out making payments, I found that they don’t even offer paying through Paypal now (though admittedly it was ginormous pain in the ass when they did). Instead they are using “Hi-pay,” which I haven’t even heard of before, and I’m a bit concerned about feeding them my card number.

There been some discussion about this, and yeah, no patron/aurum purchases until they offer Paypal. They mentioned Steam Pay as well, and not sure what good that’ll do people that don’t play it on Steam.

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Paragon Lost

Anyone want to tell me why I should want to play through content that I’ve already played through at least once with each faction. Which means overall I’ve played through the content three times. There is no new content.

They’ve simply tweaked the UI and the combat mechanics in a basic sort of way. I still don’t get how folks get all pissy at me for pointing this out and how it feels like a “quick” cash grab on the part of Funcom.

The pisser is that all the work you did with your other characters, the achievements, items etc all are “basically” tossed to the side. We want you to do a “do over”, yeah we screwed up and never finished fleshing out the game world, offering more activities, fixing long standing bugs, making the UI work better etc.

Hey, ignore that our shortcomings are on us. We want you to start over doing the same content again anyhow, in other words it’s on you. So freaking bizarre players are defending this. I guess you live long enough you can truly say that you’ve seen it all.

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Caec the Warrior

There’s no reason they couldn’t have patched the changes into the “old” game. It’s not like it’s a new engine or something.

They did it this way to increase the odds they can get money from vets who’ve already done it all. That’s it.

Personally, this is the skeeviest MMO developer decision I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been playing MMOs since they were MUDs, and the fact that anyone defends it is just truly stupefying…though we’re living in a reality where Donald Trump became president, so perhaps not as stupefying as I thought…

Edit: People who keep claiming it had to be “redone” because of all the changes…lol. It’s just code. It’s the same game, same engine. It’s just lines of code in matrices, etc, that were changed. Whether it’s 1 change or 1 million, if your’e still using the same code, you don’t have to make “new” game. It’s not voodoo magic.

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Dušan Frolkovič

There is a very important reason. Marketing and visibility.
TSW was already on life support and needed something larger to draw in a new crowd.
And as multiple MMOs over the last years have shown a relaunch works very well to get a MMO back on the map.

Ask yourself this, what would you (and people in general) like to try more:

a) An MMO you have written off has an update
b) An MMO you have written off has an relaunch

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Geoffrey Smith

It’s easy to defend.

TSW was DEAD. It’s that simple. Hell, they admitted it. So it was either a complete revamp, or the game stays in maintenance mode till it was shut down. Take your pick.

As for the starting over part? That largely seems due to the complete revamp of how they want gearing to work, which is vastly different than what it was.

But sure, we can all just call it whatever cynical name we can come up with.

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ogged451

TSW was DEAD

TSW was lively up to March 29th. Only then it became a ghost town.

Sure, it was on the decline, but maybe that had something do with “Funcom not delivering new story for 1.5 years” and not the players.

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Geoffrey Smith

That’s why it was dead! The business model didn’t work and couldn’t fund new content. They flat out said this!

And delivering new content wouldn’t have saved it.

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Dividion

There is no new content… yet. Future new content will be in SWL only.

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Sorenthaz

There is currently LESS content because they have like half of TSW’s Issues until they add in the rest.

This whole thing reeks of rushed desperation honestly.

Crow
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Crow

The only content not in the game currently is content attached to the Library and Kaiden. All launch content, as well as issues 5, 6, 7 (I heard conflicting bits… 7 may not be in QUITE yet) and 14 are all in and available.

This is partially because Tokyo needs more of a revamp than other areas. But most players are actually assuming it is also so they can do the Whispering Tide event again… which was probably the best content and time-period for TSW hands-down.

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Geoffrey Smith

The story has been both a matter of revamping AEGIS (thank GOD) and that they want to do the Whispering Tide Event again. Both of which are good things.

If they stick to the idea it will be a month or two before opening those, then its all well and good. I am in no rush.

Crow
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Crow

I’m loving this re-launch. I’ve said before often to my other half who is ALSO a pretty hardcore TSW/SWL player that I would have loved nothing more than a “reset progression” server in TSW.

This… this is that.

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Dug From The Earth

From what I can tell, its not at all for existing players. Its a fresh coat of paint for people who never played it, or maybe tried it for a day or so a few years back, and decided not to play.

If you simply love the game world, and are an existing player, then this new game is bound to be more populated (especially with fresh faces) to coexist with.

That and the fact that any new content will only be coming to this game, and not the old version (which i cant find any info even stating IF they will even be new content)

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Geoffrey Smith

The only existing players who benefit from it are those who didn’t do all three faction stories.

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Greaterdivinity

It’s primarily for new players, there’s very little with this relaunch aimed at salty vets beyond some token gestures like carrying over some cosmetics or unlocking weapons.

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TheDonDude

Agreed that this move is geared more towards new players. If I were a TSW vet, I might be pretty miffed.

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Crow

I’m a big-time vet and I’m loving it.

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Hirku

I’m a vet and not feeling very miffed.

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TheDonDude

Happy to hear it, Hirku. I dunno if I would be or not, but I’m understanding of those who are.

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Hirku

“Not miffed” doesn’t equal “overjoyed.” This is simply a last chance for the IP’s survival and I’m treating it as such.

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Greaterdivinity

Don’t get me wrong, I expected it to be from day one. But I wasn’t expecting the monetization to be this bad, or hit subs this hard. I expected a similar experience as a GM/sub as to what I had in TSW, but instead I’ve got an experience that I’d like closer to the kind of arbitrary restrictions and constant pestering to spend money that free accounts deal with in SWTOR…at least SWTOR lifts 90% of the annoyances and monetization with a simple sub.

I still can’t get over the fact that Funcom somehow managed to deliver worse monetization than god damn SWTOR…

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Geoffrey Smith

I am curious, what things are you referring to in regards to monetization as a sub? Lock boxes?

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Greaterdivinity

Lockboxes – open world and in dungeons (which are currently a complete joke)
Inventory space
Sprint speeds
Item upgrades
Weapon unlocks (dealt with for TSW owners, but sub does nothing)
Sure I’m forgetting plenty more

I feel constantly reminded that I can/should be spending more money in the cash shop behind my sub – something I don’t remember feeling in any other F2P game I’ve played where I subbed.

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Geoffrey Smith

All of the things you listed, save for lock boxes, can be taken care of without spending money. They are dependent on MoF or anima shards, i.e., grinding. TSW was horrific with this as well, sub or no. Just thinking about upgrading my gear from 10.1 to 10.9 makes my head spin…

And of course you can spend money beyond a subscription to remove the grind. That seems pretty typical of an F2P game to me. I seriously have a hard time thinking of a F2P game that doesn’t direct me to a cash shop frequently on some level.

Do I think a subscription in SWL is worth it? Not really. It is better to have been a TSW player and get the character slots, weapon unlocks, and vanity stuff transferred over.

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ogged451

Spring 5 & 6 cost Aurum.
Higher Fusions cost Aurum.

Good luck getting the needed Aurum without spending money.

Crow
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Crow

Good luck getting the needed Aurum without spending money.

Easy, actually. Exchange Marks for Aurum on the Exchange. Rates weren’t poor at all before the dupe exploit, and will likely remain so after the servers come back up.

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Geoffrey Smith

I am completely convinced a lot of the people complaining about the monetization didn’t realize about the exchange or just never used it. It’s the only explanation.

Crow
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Crow

Which isn’t wild nor a slight because it has been down recently.

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TheDonDude

Yeah the monetization looks wonky. I’m in that weird/happy “I only kinda sorta want to play this game off-and-on” zone where I likely won’t feel pressured, though, so it shouldn’t affect me too much.

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Greaterdivinity

I want to dive deep into it, but a lot of the monetization changes are driving me away. I was planning on dumping a bunch of time in last night, but by the time I hit the second half of the daily missions I was just burnt out. I didn’t want to get partway through that but not finish, so I ended up calling it a night and missing out on half of that currency.

Which sucks, because I really want that currency to upgrade my sprint/inventory : (

Crow
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Crow

Eh, we’re so close to “launch.”

In a month we’ll all have the Marks stuff unlocked and we’ll be buying Aurum (whoops…. been misspelling it) with Marks.

We’ll run out of big-ticked Mark items and you just need to sell some Marks for Aurum and you’re golden. 500A was going for 40k Marks before the Exchange went down. That isn’t out of reach at all. Way better than the STO/NW exchange rates.

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Boom

Im in the same boat & have given it a fair crack of the whip but the monetization is so off that I would rather just play the old TSW. Something which I did on/off over the years & usually grabbed a sub an some points each time.
This new version however will not be getting my money unless something solid is added to it rather than the slot machine it is now

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Paragon Lost

First sentence sums it up for me. My biggest issues Dug is that the time, money and effort that they put into SWL they could have spent on improving and expanding TSW. Oh and that basically TSW and AoC are not going to get any further work done or things fixed. That players don’t see this as bad business boggles me.

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Dug From The Earth

It could have been, and should have been, but its clear Funcom diverted its efforts elsewhere.

What funcom has done is move the contents from a wooden ship with holes, that was slowly rotting and sinking, into a new, plastic ship, with the same paint job.

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David Goodman

If you don’t want to, then don’t. I don’t think it’s up to me or anyone to tell you why you should, or should not, do anything.

if you are trying to get convinced to play a game, then play it. If you don’t really want to play it, then don’t.

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Paragon Lost

I think it’s productive to have fans/players/customers whatever you want to call us, offer feedback with how we feel or perceive things. You would be an example of the type of player btw that I often don’t get. You don’t want us to talk about what we don’t like?

You basically it seems like want an echo chamber of “rah-rah! I love this!”. Ugh, that sucks. I prefer to discuss what I like and why and what I don’t like and why. Maybe you might want to avoid forums/bbs etc where players talk and just “play it” as you say.

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Hirku

I don’t see him telling you to not speak your mind. You asked us to convince you why you should love this rah-rah, as you put it, and he basically said nobody can tell you what you like or don’t like other than you.

Chill. Out.

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David Goodman

You’re reading a lot into what I said. Too much. I’m not going to fight you on a website, and you shouldn’t read anything I’ve said as an insult.

“You don’t want us to talk about what we don’t like”? Didn’t say that.

“You basically want an echo chamber” didn’t say that.

I said, if you want to play it, play it. If you don’t want to play it, then don’t. The only thing right about the words “play it” that you quoted was the words – but no context.

“Maybe you might want to avoid forums/bbs” – didn’t say I had a problem with them, but by saying this you are trying to push me out of a conversation – a conversation you supposedly claim to want to have, and I am the one who wants an echo chamber?

Why do you want me to convince you to play the game? I’ve heard your complaints. You’re not alone. You started the thread – you ASKED me to convince you why you should play content you’ve already done.

In the same way that you falsely said that I just want an echo chamber, you’re not going to force me to agree with you

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Paragon Lost

You countered my whole post with basically ” play it or don’t play it”. You didn’t discuss anything I posted about. So how was I to take anything else from your post but that I shouldn’t post my criticisms?

Also, where do see me even alluding to wanting to fight with you? I came to the article to make some remarks about things I don’t like that I am seeing in regards this game. I didn’t even allude to you being insulting to me, I just didn’t see any merit in your post.

You came off like “shut up and play or don’t play”. Also, I never called you a fanboy. If anything I might be a fanboy we’ve payed for 4 life time subs for my wife, myself and two of our adult kids. (shrugs)

Anyhow it’s a sunny day after a morning rain, I think I’ll go for an afternoon ride on the motorcycle. I can see nothing to worth while to be gained here.

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David Goodman

“You came off like” — you’re assuming. All we have is text – if you’re reading anything other than the exact words that I am saying, then you’re reading into it too much.

You made multiple assumptions about what you felt like I meant and dishonestly implied that I wanted things that were stated nowhere in my post. That is coming off as aggressive. It’s asking for an argument.

And here we are, defending the tone of the words that weren’t said, instead of the content of the post.

“I can see nothing to worth while to be gained here” — says the person who thinks I wanted an echo chamber.

Enjoy your motorcycle ride. Try not to let someone disagreeing with you get to you next time. Next time you want a “discussion”, don’t ask a question that you have no intention of discussing.

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TheDonDude

I think you extrapolated insults where none were there. There was no ‘shut up’ to be inferred by David Goodman’s comment.

At any rate, a motorcycle ride sounds fun. Enjoy!

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TheDonDude

You’re reading an awful lot into his comment that doesn’t actually seem to be there.

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Paragon Lost

Really, am I? I see similar styled posts directed at me often when I’ve made critical remarks. I am going with what he’s posted. (shrugs) Seems GD and Boom agree with me on it.

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David Goodman

No, deleting that comment – it was uncalled for and did not contribute.

Other commentators can agree with you. I never said they couldn’t. however, if you want to claim you want a discussion, then ignore something someone says because it doesn’t agree with you – and you claim THAT person only wanted an echo chamber – kind-of puts you in a dishonest position.

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TheDonDude

Combat is better… not particularly good, but better. There’s still a little disconnect between my actions and the result that happens to the enemy. I just spam my best single target or AoE attack until the bad guys are dead.

The rest of the game is lookin’ good, though. The character models don’t really bother me, and the environmental set pieces are still glorious to behold.

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thickenergy

I think a lot of disconnect is due to the damage/effect of an ability happening as soon as it is triggered then having the animation play. It’s annoying having people die from bullets that haven’t even been fired yet.

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deekay_plus

sounds like reverse of swtor’s ability “delay” effect.

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Greaterdivinity

Most of the actual improvements to gameplay a pretty nice, overall. Definite a bit of a mixed bag compared to TSW, but they balance out at a net-positive IMO.

But the monetization…it’s a super rough ride from start to finish. I can’t believe how much value the subscription, now “patron” for some stupid reason because I guess they want to associate themselves with Rift…, has lost compared to what was offered in TSW. Granted, SWTOR still has an arguably more restrictive model for F2P players, but when the SWTOR sub provides better value than your sub, there are problems. It’s incredible how few of the monetization headaches the current “patron” status actually alleviates compared to how many were added into the game.

Honestly, feels like the game could have done with another few months of work, both in terms of polish and especially design. I’m actually pretty shocked with how bad some of the design decisions are when it comes to monetization.

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Paragon Lost

Since it’s the same engine, why didn’t they just offer to do these improvements to TSW? That would be my question. Also why didn’t they spend more effort on widening the game, making it deeper and offering more activities? Instead they keep offering us frosting and telling us the cakes coming. Just don’t understand it.

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Dug From The Earth

Its hard to get new, fresh players into a game when they feel like they are starting 5+ years too late. Old players wouldnt be throwing much money at a cash shop (since they already have a ton of cosmetic things).

Starting from scratch, for everyone, insures that fresh meat joins the game, ones that are much more open to spending new money on the cash shop.

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Paragon Lost

Here is the thing though. The shortcomings, issues, bugs and things that lacked have been known from day one or from the early days. Same thing with AoC, and yet Funcom appears not to listen.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, Funcom appears to repeat the same mistakes and never appears to evolve and learn. It’s very very frustrating to see such a creative company repeatedly make these mistakes and repeatedly screw over players as well. :(

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Boom

I dont have the stamina for these debates anymore but this is exactly the problem & why I also agree with your above points Paragon.
Unless critique is given, heard & debated we are forever going to be in an endless cycle of games hitting the post rather than scoring.
As much as Funcom are to blame I also feel some of its more frenzied community members are also, turning a blind eye when it suits them & consistently feeding the monsters that Funcom birth.

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Greaterdivinity

Because this gives them a “new” game to launch to try to reach new players, rather than the same game that’s slowly faded into obscurity over the years and comes with its own baggage.

Beyond that, they’ve actually tightened the game up. Crafting seems completely gone, for example. I’d love to see more variety in activities, especially in daily activities, but this very much appears to be a low budget/low effort affair, as disappointing as it is to say. They’re hoping to squeeze as much money as they can out of it, that much is painfully clear with their harsh monetization and the lack of perks for subs compared to many other F2P MMO’s.

I’m incredibly frustrated, because I was kinda hoping for a lot more from Funcom with this relaunch. I should have known better though, this is very much the same Funcom that has existed for decades. They’ve turned no corners, made no apparent improvements to their internal processes (especially communication), made scant improvements on their ability to deliver on improved quality, and still have all the same problems that they’ve had for years.

I don’t want SWL to fail but if they don’t work on improvements, especially on the monetization front, quickly then they’re definitely running the risk of alienating both salty vets pissed at all the new headaches F2P has brought and the prized new blood that SWL is primarily aimed at. This isn’t a relaunch for us vets, they’ve already got our money : /

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Jeff

if they added even a little bit of aurum for patrons I would be OK with the sub. Actually i thought that was pretty standard for f2p games with subscriptions at this point. I am not 100% sure but i think i heard that higher levels of sprinting and inventory space are aurum only so i was hoping to save up for that over time with my patron status. Now my patron status is because i have the lifetime account so I am happy to throw some more money their way but i feel bad for anyone paying the monthly sub. I think I would just skip the sub and buy aurum as i needed it instead if I was not a lifetimer.

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Greaterdivinity

Yeah, a small stipend would be extremely welcome. I get that the daily cache keys are worth a lot over time technically, but I have no interest in lockboxes in the slightest. And every one I’ve opened so far has had fuckall for rewards I actually want (which are mostly unlocks, and not cosmetic or upgrade shit).

And yes, while I haven’t heard that about inventory room I did hear the last 2 sprint upgrades are cash only…which is beyond shitty if it’s true. Especially since GM’s used to get it for free in TSW IIRC.

I’m a GM as well and I was planning on dropping some additional cash to support the game (like I did with Rift when it transitioned, dropped quite a chunk of change on that because I was a fan of how they monetized it), but as things stand I’m not supporting their current monetization scheme, I just can’t bring myself to. If they make improvements, I’ll be happy to throw some more cash their way, I like supporting games I enjoy and good business models. But as of now…I just feel gross even thinking about supporting this F2P implementation.

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Jeff

I think there is a good chance that there will be changes at some point. What you can and can’t do in a f2p game seems to change drastically after launch for most of these as they need to sweeten the pot to get people to sub. In the mean time i am just going to play and see if the goodwill feeling is enough to throw money their way or not.

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Greaterdivinity

They need to make them fast, both for the sake of us salty vets who are pretty pissed at feeling screwed compared to the TSW experience, and more importantly for the new players. The games big “relaunch” really happens next month with the Steam launch, and if it’s not addressed by then I’m deeply concerned that it’s going to turn off many of the potential new player that the relaunch is aimed at and that the game desperately needs.

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Geoffrey Smith

Interestingly, I would argue that being a former TSW owner does more to alleviate the monetization options than being a patron (all weapon pages, three character slots, vanity items).

Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing depends on your perspective I guess.

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Estranged

Geoffrey – former owners receive an excellent deal, indeed.

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Jeff

yeah i figured i would end up spending money on another character slot and getting weapons opened quicker and that was about it. And then they go and give that too me. I am happy of course. I’m sure there will be a mount skin i want to buy or something similar in the future.

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Tiresias

I’m SERIOUSLY disappointed with how they changed the first hour of gameplay. The original game had what was hands-down, without a doubt, THE BEST post-character creation cutscene of any MMO ever and one of the best of any video game ever. It told the entire story of what changes your character endures AND sets the stage for the games thick plot of intrigue in less than 10 minutes.

It’s also literally the only mistake that was made with the rework of the game.

Everything else about SWL improves on the formula that made TSW great and strips out the chaff that made it cumbersome and difficult to enjoy.

The combat system is improved but not dramatically altered. Movement and positioning are still important, and it’s still possible to build characters that fill hybrid roles, but the skill trees make more sense now and most of the weapons have a satisfying feel to them (not Chaos… that one really missed the mark).

The story is more accessible and a lot of unnecessary missions are gone, but the core of the story is not just there — it’s better presented. There are still plenty of off-road things to do: boss hunting, side quests, lore items to collect, etc., but they add to the game experience instead of bogging it down.

You aren’t flooded with items anymore, and the upgrade process is simple and understandable now.

Yes, the graphics are outdated. The graphics in the original TSW weren’t amazing to begin with, and in 2017 they look downright staid. But if you can get past that one concern and ignore the fact that they dispensed with the best opening sequence ever put into an MMO, you are likely to really enjoy the game. It really does something different in the MMO space and is worth checking out, especially with all of the improvement that the relaunch brought.

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Estranged

The feedback was probably that the opening was too long in TSW classic and was skipped.

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Hirku

I agree about the first hour. I of course know the game needs a tutorial but man, way to just kill the mystery and atmosphere of the opening scenes. That was what got me excited about TSW, not knowing right away what buttons to push. I’m also bummed to lose the cool cutscene with Dae-Su in the Dragon dojang. Ah well, YouTube I guess.

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johnwillo

I do like the new upgrade system. Simple and intuitive.

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hurbster

The beginner classes are all well and good but I would have liked the option to pick my own weapons as well.

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Geoffrey Smith

They REALLY need a “free form” option for character creation, to be sure.

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Sorenthaz

They’ll stick a price tag on that a la Champions Online. /s

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Sorenthaz

My biggest gripe so far is that customization somehow got thrown into budget cutting. Why the hell am I only able to choose between three beard colors?

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johnwillo

…and be grateful that you’re not in Age of Conan, where male characters lost their beards on the character selection screen years ago. Never fixed and never will be fixed, now.

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Boom

Totally different from AoC where each race has individual styles & vendors in game if you opt to change.
The char cust options in SWL are awful, no two ways about it.

That is unless they plan to add more facial options via caches in the future which wouldnt surprise me.

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johnwillo

TSW has always been pretty limited in character customization. I remember that, before the initial release, some big wig at FunCom downplayed the need for it. Which is kind of funny, since the cash shop ended up stuffed with various bizarre costumes, which seems very similar to character customization to me.

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Geoffrey Smith

My wife and I have been pleasantly surprised by it so far. Most of the changes feel like they were done to let people both get over the initial hump and to clear up clutter and confusion that existed in TSW.

There are still thinks that are not explained well, if at all, like being able to switch defensive targets with the mouse wheel (this will be key for healers), the upgrade system and gearing power is really only mentioned in brief load screen hints, and the AH and auction house being down hurts the game right now as those things are essential for how the economy is designed (they say they hope to have it back up tomorrow).

I do agree with some of the negative sentiments though that say it isn’t enough of a change to make a big difference. I think that is a fair criticism, and I think the only thing that might help them there is new story content.

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johnwillo

I’m just not sure that I can run all that content again. Given that some of my legacy costume pieces transferred with the wrong colors, I can’t even re-build my favored characters. I may stick with old school TSW until they shut it down.

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BalsBigBrother

I have to chuckle when people refer to the new combat system when to me its an old combat system only with a new UI and a new energy mechanic.

I have been toying with the idea of making a video with no UI showing the combat in reticle mode in TSW and the combat in SWL. Then asking folks which section belongs to which game and I am sure that while some may get it right a lot won’t be able to tell the difference. Functionally they are the same with the same builder / spender mechanism in effect too but again presented differently in their respective games.

For me personally I am not enamoured with the combat in Secret World Legend but then I wasn’t in TSW either so no loss or gain for me in that department. It remains something I tolerate for the sake of seeing the story, which I hope will get to continue past the point we finished up in TSW.

The story is and has always really been the star of this game and its one I hope will continue to be allowed to shine on into the future.

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Paragon Lost

Never did like reticles. I preferred the synergy in TSW versus what they’re doing with this combat mechanics. :( Also, freaking keys and lockboxes. Ugh.

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BalsBigBrother

Oh may as well get this out of the way too. You can keep throwing these at me Funcom but I am never going to buy a key for them ever.

LockboxHype.png
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Greaterdivinity

Watching 90% of the drops in the world be these stupid freaking lockboxes is beyond frustrating. I don’t think I’ve ever played another game where I’m actively hoping mobs won’t drop loot. It’s a really strange feeling.

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Geoffrey Smith

Sell them for shards! That’s 2400 shards for doing gear enhancements for you.

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Hirku

Or open one a day for kicks with the free key you get each day.

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BalsBigBrother

:-)

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Geoffrey Smith

Honestly, the best way to treat them if you aren’t a patron getting a free key each day is as vendor loot. I appreciate the fact they give them to you but let them have an actual value beyond opening them.

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BalsBigBrother

I think it annoys me because they are the only actual items drops from mobs now rather than something useful. Only loot is from quest rewards but yeah not a fan, something else to tolerate :-)

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David Goodman

At least they let you sell them, and not force you to destroy them without giving them any kind of vendor value. Could have hoped for more loot drops, but I have found non-box items – got an outfit item once – but it’s rare. I wouldn’t mind even junk to put into the weapon-blender

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Paragon Lost

Ouch, those are the only things dropping from the mobs now? I’ve been spending time in TSW to gather mats to finish up some weapon looks that I had been hoarding. Makes me just want to stay over there and play. :(

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Malcolm Swoboda

Mobs give XP and Anima Shards (common currency). Elite enemies, first time kill, drop loot.

Missions reward loot, and there’s new area kill missions that do the same.

So less mob rewards, more mission rewards. The Elite enemies dropping loot are an ‘extra’ bump for seeking them out while leveling.

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Greaterdivinity

In my experience, outside of named mobs which drop general random bags, yep. I can’t think of anything that’s really dropped from normal mobs outside of these lockboxes.

The user experience is definitely infinitely better in TSW. Nowhere near the number of headaches built into the monetization in that game, and the sub at least lets you bypass most of them instantly or after a few short months of the stipend.

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BalsBigBrother

We are going to need a metric shit ton to level up even one full set of gear, let alone multiple sets for different aspects of SWL, the fact that loot now seems restricted compared to TSW is another annoyance for me.

Oh and to be clear as I am focusing on annoyances in these comment it might seem that I don’t like SWL. On balance there is still more good stuff in this game than bad. I am having fun and hope to continue to do so but yeah it ain’t perfect so there are things that annoy me :-)

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Crow

I love the slow upgrade process. Means that strapping on new Greens and heading back to Kingsmouth is more fun.

And don’t discount that this new system doesn’t punish you for upgrading the “wrong” item. You can do a one/two-pip to Blue and it doesn’t matter because when you get the three-pip you’ll use that as the fusion base so that when you go to fus you just choose the better one… allowing you to have a blue tali/weapon in the meantime.

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Geoffrey Smith

And with the distillates/gear you get from doing dungeons/quests/champions nothing you get from any activity is wasted, as it can all be used to builf up current or side gear.

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Hirku

Sure, but one big game-changing difference in combat that won’t be visible in your video is the control scheme. I did fine in TSW, but after two weeks with SWL I can’t imagine going back. Blade skills in the right hand (mouse), Elemental in the left (Q & E), damage buff 1, self-heal 2. Simple, intuitive, and even accurately reflects what my character is doing with his hands in-game.

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Unleaded

To me the big difference in the combat system isn’t the action combat or reticule. It’s the fact that the weapons actually play different now. Every weapon isn’t just build up combo points, use combo points. That was always my main problem with the combat.

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Geoffrey Smith

The weapons are, indeed, much more individual in their styles and play different. It has been very noticeable.

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Sorenthaz

Yeah now pistols for example let you dump out those points right away with methods of getting it back and having filler skills to use during downtime.

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BalsBigBrother

@Hirku, @Unleaded. @Geoffrey Smith, @Sorenthaz

As I said combat it something I have always tolerated for the sake of seeing the story. If the changes make you guys feel better about the game, good I am glad that some folks see a positive even if I don’t.

Hope it keeps you all playing long enough and tempts you to throw some monies Funcoms way so I get to see a positive too with the story moving forward :-)

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