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58 Comments on "Final Fantasy XIV is temporarily logging everyone off once a day to keep login queues moving"

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Albert Guzman

A band aid solution it may be, but it’s working like the cure to cancer. Boom, and the que’s are banished.

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Rustyblades

When I log in to go do some Levequests in Grandia and see literally 20-30 players just standing around near one of the 20+ levequest givers then yeah, AFK is the norm – it’s been the norm since launch part II.

Had they implemented a kick off timer back then I’d have kept playing after the initial 30 days but since I could never get on the same server two logins in a row I kind of got frustrated and stopped playing. When I found out that it was due to hundreds if not thousands of players just AFK’ing vs logging out I thought they were the biggest asshats on the planet. AFK’ing and blocking other people from actually playing the game is akin to those folks who camp public restrooms and port-a-potties to charge $5 for them to vacate.

However, long queues due to AFKers don’t seem to be a huge problem on the medium pop servers – I usually only see a max of 200 queues with me getting in within 10 minutes – not an issue. If it were, I’d not started playing again but this news would have reversed that decision.

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Jack Kerras

My favorite statement:

‘Rules are for assholes.’

I don’t think that everyone who follows the rule is an asshole, of course. That’s not the point. The point is that if we didn’t have assholes, we wouldn’t need rules.

Prime example here. Folks found a way to get around the AFK timer, and as a result, they’re now being assholes and causing queues for other people, sometimes for many hours a day, without actually using the service at all; they’re just idling at work, or running into a corner, or what-have-you. There are naturally some technical issues which make this difficult to track and such, especially since everything you do to dissuade them makes them do more; it’s an awful arms race between rules and assholes.

But if folks would just fucking log out when they’re not playing, and log in when they are, this would not be nearly the problem that it is.

Now, that being said? It’s fucking BONKERS that FFXIV doesn’t allow you to pop back in after you get disconnected by via error without waiting in queue. Having a few open slots in the front of the queue for folks who are reconnecting within 3m of disconnecting would be totally reasonable, and it really needs to happen.

Naturally, anyone AFK-booted would have to wait 5 and sit in line.

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Meanie

Just started playing again after years.. surprised the reconnect to bypass queue is not a thing. Even Archeage has that and that game is all kinds of crappy.

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Veldan

Band-aid fix indeed, but justified. People brought this on themselves. I always hated and never understood the ridiculous effort that people make to bypass the rules and stay online after a major launch. If nobody did that, queues would not be a problem, because they’d move much faster. All these people trying their very best to stay logged in while not playing are protecting themselves against a queue problem they themselves create. It’s sort of a catch-22.

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Glenda McCarthy

Actually, according to guildmates, they were down about half an hour not 10 minutes as they said they would be.

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Christopher Allcock

Just to point out – it’s happening now (US side)

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Line

FFXIV stumbling around trying to fix their bad connection system, part… like 1 000 000 and half?
That’s such a bad system… instance players getting the boot, that’s gonna help with the elitist mentality.
Everyone trying to get back in at the same time? Good way to bring back Raubahn, I guess.

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thickenergy

It’s nice to see a company actually taking some measures to deal with temporary queues and AFK accounts rather than just shrugging it off. I don’t play FFXIV but I have a lot of respect for Square Enix and how they’ve handled the game.

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NeoWolf

And will the subscription price reflect this time stolen? No, didn’t think so lol

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Loopy

I will personally refund you the 10.0416 cents every month that you will lose by losing 10 minutes per day relogging back to the game.

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NeoWolf

You don’t know it will be 10 mins, you log out your in a queue again that queue could take quite a while to shift you have no way of knowing how long that will take from one log out to the next as it isn’t a fixed time.

Then putting the time taken aside, consider the inconveneience, what if everyone has arranged and put things off to do some group activity or raid and right in the middle of it you or one of your group is auto logged out and you can no longer get the content done..evening ruined.

The point im getting at is that this is a stupid resolution to a problem they should and could have sorted quite some time ago. It should not fall to the customers to make allowances for their pi** poor preparations. Part of what you are paying for is not just the time TO play, but the ability to play without interruption or inconvenience either be it from other players or the servers themselves.

TL:DR they need to sort their shi* out :)

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Loopy

I agree it’s a bandaid fix, and i totally agree that it sucks when you account for the inconveniences of planning your activities around it and losing precious gaming time.

On the other hand, I also think that all of this will blow away in a couple of weeks once servers have been stabilized, as it did with the original launch if you recall. In the past, SE has been pretty good at either providing either reimbursement, gifts, or something of that sort. I don’t consider SE to be a scumbag studio.

I just have to poke fun at the “refund” comments, especially considering how insignificant the monetary value of lost sub time is. The intrinsic value of time itself however is a totally different topic for discussion…

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NeoWolf

It has already persisted for more than a couple of weeks..and the only fix they have come up with thus far is the aforementioned auto logging people out which is a whole new measure of dumb and inconvenient :) They are dancing around the fact they need more servers..instead of trying to time manage people who are paying for uninterrupted access for a WHOLE month they should just suck it up and get more servers.

I get where your coming from ;) although I never specifically mentioend refunds, the point was more as I say relating to inconvenience and that a subscription pays not only for access and support of a game but uninterrupted service. When they fail to provide that, that is their bad and also their responsibility to compensate their playerbase in some way for the inconvenience because your only getting PART of a service atm but paying the FULL price. Thats bad on any level.

Customers are quick to forget they have rights pertaining to things they pay for, it doesn’t fall to us to make allowances for companies who fail to provide a service. We “choose” them, but they “need” us, it is not an equal relationship. Far too often people make excuses for the sh88y services they are recieving thinking these companies are their friends or that by singing their praises they somehow endear or ingratiate themselves to theses companies. But they are not our friends, they are businesses, they could care less about us as individuals their only interest is our money. And whether they like it or not THAT they have to earn by doing their jobs. Apathy will be the death of civilisation :)

Half arsed service on any level is not acceptable when your paying for it. So although it may seem like a matter of pennnies and minutes to you, it is actually a principle that dictates what you as a consumer find acceptable and will allow them to get away with while still taking your money.

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Steve Fury

Man this happens with every WoW and FFXIV expansion. Everyone gets so heated and frustrated for a few weeks then everything goes back to normal, but its as if everyone forgot so its just this weird cycle that continues. Get over it. Unsub for a month then come back. THIS IS NORMAL FOR AN MMO. Sure its odd and highlights their own stupid game design but I’m sure they’ll fix it. Its not that big of a deal. Everyone acting so betrayed lol

sauldo
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sauldo

No, in this day and age, this isn’t normal, especially when said MMOs are sub-based and being unable to log in at your leisure (planned maintenance nonwithstanding) is literally ripping off your money. There are more robust server structures out there that would allow everyone to log in without queues, but that would require Squeenix to actually commit to it.

I bear no ill will for Yoshi-P and his team, but I would have thought that after having been brought close to tears by ARR’s launch issues, he would have made that his number one priority.

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kgptzac

I think you should consider sending your resume to big MMO publishers’ PR department. I for one do not appreciate normalizing MMO/expansion launching unpreparedness by publishers because its’ anti-consumer to assume such a stance.

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Jon Sleeper

I’m going to wait for the surge to die down before I get back into the game.

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Dividion

The title says this happens once a day, so what time does it happen? Is it consistent, and can you plan for it? The EVE server restarts every day and is down for 20-30min, (or at least it used to back when I played), and I never saw anyone have any problems because of it. If you can plan for a 10min down period once a day, that doesn’t seem like a big deal. The reason for the down period being necessary is the big deal.

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kgptzac

Eve’s daily downtime is not for kicking afk’s. This force log off in FF14 is designed to relieve login queues and the timing is deliberately kept opaque… which should be evident enough if you read the actual article :)

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Dividion

So it can happen at any time, but most likely during prime time when the queues are really heavy. That’s not cool. At least EVE’s downtime was consistently around 7am EST (if I remember right) in order to minimize impact on the US and EU players. Of course it serves a different purpose as well. FFXIV needs to get its act together.

bereman99
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bereman99

During prime time would be relatively useless for the intent of this particular action.

They want to catch those who are circumventing the AFK timer – the times that is most likely to happen is during the middle of the night or the middle of the day for that region.

During peak playing time for that region? Most players in the game are probably actively playing the game, so restarting the just means they are all logging right back in for the most part.

Doing it around 12 PM PDT like they did yesterday, when chances are the AFK individual is at work? Higher chance of having the intended result.

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Wolfyseyes

I agree, knowing what time this would happen would do a great deal to alleviate a bit of my raised hackles. Not all of them, mind, but it’d help.

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Albert Guzman

I don’t think they should tell us. Don’t forget this is to catch people who are willing to do the research and take the time to find ways around the rules. If they announced the servers were shutting down every day at 3am, you can bet people would log in at 9am, go AFK for work or whatever, and come back at 5pm to play all night.

Alatar
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Alatar

So there are no dungeons or raids in FFXIV that take longer than one hour? I can’t imagine how I’d feel if I’d just started something with friends and was told that no matter what, I was getting kicked off the server in an hour. Am I misunderstanding how this works?

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Albert Guzman

Nope. Unless you’re learning a new raid boss and it’s taking you a long time to figure out the mechanics, nothing in the game should take longer than that. Even the giant 24-man raids usually take 30-45 minutes, unless they die a lot too.

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Mewmew

Most of us dislike idlers that are very long term afk to skip queues but this is a horrible solution! Another of the throwing the baby out with the bath water solutions?

Can’t they just do one of those captcha things they use to identify bots and such? One where you click certain boxes of a picture or something to identify things in it that are semi easy and fast for people actually there (and still give them 15-20 minutes to get back to it in case they’re doing something). This would allow them to kick off actual idle people without screwing with everybody else who may be there actually playing.

Captchas are a little bit annoying too but not anywhere near as bad as this horrible solution of booting everybody. Some people will have just got on and finally through the queues, and it’s obviously very game disrupting and not fair to people legitimately playing.

bereman99
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bereman99

Could they? Probably.

By the time it had been created, tested, and patched in…the issue might largely have passed.

There’s a time-sensitive element to this solution – it’s one that needs fixing now so the first step is to implement a band-aid solution that helps alleviate the issue now.

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kgptzac

It’s actually isn’t too bad, considering if the queues aren’t outlandishly bad and the end goal is to be fair to all subscribers. You already have one hour or more play time when you get the warning anyway.

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Fervor Bliss

One of the last sub games around and you get treated like this ?

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Wolfyseyes

Pretty damn boneheaded move, temporary or not, in my view. I can’t really swallow that they’re this ignorant of how many people were expected to play. I’m even less accepting that they would believe people would willingly leave their server to move to a new one, free transfer or not.

bereman99
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bereman99

You’re right…they should totally just start forcing people to leave whether they want to or not.

Zander
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Zander

Sorry to be that guy but, this is why I enjoy the megaserver solution. Yeah, no home server identity but at least everyone can login and enjoy the game uninterrupted together with no queues.

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Christopher Allcock

Remember Blizzard is basically using a ‘mega server’ system with logins in WoW as it covers ALL their games – If you remember during the launches of Diablo 3 and Overwatch the service failed taking down everything in the process..

Megaservers have their uses, but when overloaded still fall with the same flaw

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Tandor

Agreed, plus the other problem with megaservers is the inability to apply different rulesets to different servers.

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CloakingDonkey .

You can definitely still have queues on a mega server if the login server is overloaded.

And honestly mega servers shouldn’t even be controversial for those games where they work. They just simply don’t work for all MMORPGs. Open World games without instances simply need servers… it works for games like ESO cause they are barely more open world than, say, Path of Exile to begin with.

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Tandor

It doesn’t work completely for ESO because you can’t have different rulesets with only the one megaserver – so no roleplaying server, and no open world PvP server for example.

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CloakingDonkey .

yeah good point I didn’t think about rulesets. Although I’m sure you could somehow solve that through phazes… I mean they have language phazes to an extent, don’t see why you couldn’t have RP phazes.

Zander
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Zander

Very good points and open world wasn’t something I considered.

sauldo
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sauldo

Not sure if we’re still speaking about FFXIV here. From what I’ve seen, that game isn’t any more an open world than GW2, which is on a mega server. Is there something that I didn’t consider that would prevent FFXIV to benefit from that technology?

bereman99
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bereman99

There’s at least a few design hurdles that would need to be overcome that would pull resource from ongoing development of content – design and balance of hunts and FATEs, which are based around a certain player population, and suddenly handling significantly more players trying to get to a given hunt mark or popular pet/item dropping FATE (like the fox minion/ears one or the Ixion fate).

Housing would likely need to be redone entirely, and possibly the apartments system (which can accommodate large amounts of players per server) as well depending on the stress of that is spread out among servers, so that’s additional development time.

The market board system might have to be redone with it suddenly having to handle the listings of not just several thousand players but tens of thousands of players at once…not to mention dealing with the fallout of shared markets.

And of course if the game engine/server infrastructure itself doesn’t currently lend itself well to scaling via instances of each zone (it can have some currently, but we don’t actually know how well it all scales past 3 or 4 copies, but scaling would be necessary as each zone is only stable up to a certain number of players) then that would have to be reworked.

All of this…to basically solve what isn’t an issue for 90% of the servers.

Really, seriously. The only servers this would help in NA would be Balmung and Gilgamesh (and really just Balmung at this point, though without how entitled many of the players there have begun acting, they’d probably think anything that benefits them specifically is best for everyone).

They’d almost certainly have to make significant changes to the game for the sake of a few servers across all data centers.

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

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Cindy M

Not sure this measure will accomplish much other then annoy the crap out of players.

bereman99
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bereman99

On servers where this isn’t a widespread practice, even longer queues went by fairly quickly (I think my longest was 15 minutes and that was a 1k person queue).

A daily reset won’t really impact most servers except to serve as an annoyance, sure, but this is ultimately a band-aid solution for a small handful of servers that this will impact in a positive way (even though the problem itself is ultimately a player created one and those players should, in my opinion, have to sit in their own mess until they decide they’ve had enough and change what they are doing).

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Christopher Allcock

*lazy c&p from my response on Reddit* :)

A few things

1) The dev team aren’t stupid it’s been a week now and do you think this is a rash solution? They’ve most likely gone over all the options in sorting out the exploits/botting/marcoing in the long term and this is the short term solution.

It’s more than likely they are also watching WHO is logging back in the repeating the same exploits to stay in (ala RMTs) and we are most likely going to see a whole load of temp bans to trim down people trying to stay in..

2) ‘Why don’t they put in an auto kick function to fix this’ – They have it’s in the first part of the information, but people are finding ways around this, using the systems meant to PROTECT the players from losing connection during important things (the crafting ‘exploit’ is only part of this).

If you think being booted for 10 mins after being warned an hour ahead is unfair, think about the times you lost connection without warning, those fixes to stop that happening ARE those ‘exploits’ people are using to keep in game… Not such a ‘simple fix’ now is it?

3) ‘What if I’m in the duty and get kicked?’ NOT going to happen, at least you would have a grace period to finish the duty, THEN you’ll be shunted to the login screen.

Same rules count around people in the queues – the severs are NOT being all turned off, all that is happening is people are being forced logged out and a basically a ‘temp ban’ is being placed on them. Anyone in the queues will then most likely flood in – IF you happen to login during the turn off windows, then I agree thats an issue and slightly unfair, however the devs ‘could’ put safeguards in for those people, but as stated people are already using safeguards to exploit…

The devs WISH it was as simple as making new servers and people moving through, it’s an option for players right now, but people aren’t willing to take it even with the incentives, and as people said if the FFXIV dev team had the money to put into growing the servers I think they would have done so – remember FFXIV already has been made twice and a whole load of money was put into moving (and add to) the EU and US datacentres, I doubt the Yoshi-Ps bosses are willing to part with more at this point..

I seriously think this is their ‘last resort’ card to sort out the worlds full of people not actually active in game and actually allowing those wanting to play in.

sauldo
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sauldo

Interesting insights. I would even agree with your penultimate paragraph if the alternative was viable but, even after having moved to Omega (EU), I am now sitting in 2k long queues (and still increasing) during prime time which is steadily but surely waning my goodwill.

I understand that there aren’t any easy solutions to that server issue, but if Yoshi-P’s bosses want to see this game thrive, they should really consider a more durable solution to what is, after all, a 4-years old issue.

I’ll see how this plays out – still hoping for the best – but I’m really concerned about having to sit two times an evening in a 1-h long queue (instead of just once) because of that new system.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

What’s the root of the issue here? That people are botting or that queues are so long that once you get in you don’t want to log out? Seems like a weird problem.

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Christopher Allcock

It’s both – people are using the system to keep in the game out of fear of having to wait for hours in the queues, which by doing so created the queues in the first place.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

Thanks much. I can see this would create a widening, self-perpetuating spiral.

bereman99
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bereman99

To add to this – the number of worlds where queues have truly been slowed to a crawl due to this practice are the minority – most servers, even other well populated ones, aren’t experiencing this, certainly not to the degree of the couple of servers where this practice is most prevalent.

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Christopher Allcock

It’s hardly a minority on the EU side; Cerberus, Odin, Shiva, Moogle and Phoenix all have login issues during peak times, even Omega is experiencing long waits and that is one of the newer ones..

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Greaterdivinity

This is a pretty awful solution. It’s pretty disappointing to see FFXIV kinda regressing in many ways, at least on the tech front.

You’d figure a modern MMO with a proper budget behind it wouldn’t suffer from super lengthy login queues for weeks after a launch, need for force-kick players because their existing anti-afk methods are easily bypassed, or wait for hours in line for quest NPC’s like we used to actually have to (due to tech limits) back in the day. I mean shit, they STILL have servers locked from character creation during regular play hours…years after launch. That was the whole reason I never played with a friend of mine, I could literally never create a character on his server.

This is pretty disappointing looking in from the outside, I can only imagine how much worse it must be actually dealing with these issues. Just seeing a lot of the reddit threads scrolls through my feed is pretty brutal : /

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apridise

Well this also the same company that doesn’t seem to care about gold sellers spamming everyone. I’ve been convinced for a long time now that they don’t want to fix things anymore, it’s about trying to make as much money as possible by doing the least amount. So we get expansions and the minor content updates to retain and bring older players back, but that’s about it.

bereman99
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bereman99

Most of us aren’t dealing with these issues (well, except for the once a day mandatory log-out now I suppose and the stuck behind the NPC because the instance server broke for a bit and then had a cap put on it for a while), just the knuckleheads on a couple servers that decided that bypassing the AFK timer would be a good idea and the rest of those couple servers followed suit.

Most queues on most servers are reasonable to non-existent. I’m on a top ten server population wise (numbers 3 through 10 in the NA all range around 8-12k active players as of the 2016 unofficial census) and my queue during prime time? About 20 people and lasts less than 2 minutes. Even at it’s peak of 1k people it took me maybe 10 minutes to get in.

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Christopher Allcock

Again ‘Most of us’ =/= everyone, like I said in the other post the EU side is heavily hit on all servers.

Add to that the ‘unofficial census’ 1) only counted ‘active players’ as players whom had updated reached a certain item level (ie raid level), which only counts a fraction of the playerbase. The last one a few months ago only counted those profiles that had been updated in the past few weeks, which again excludes people which ARE active but don’t changed their gearset that often (ironically this would include the raid level players as they had their complete gearsets months ago).

Plus the most of the time the census is carried out during the lowest points of the patch lifecycles to attain a ‘true’ look at the dedicated population – right now this month is the launch month, the highest point of the population, if not the highest ever…

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Dividion

The main reason I never got into FFXIV was because… I never got into FFXIV!

When the game relaunched, I was able to log in 3 times during the first month included with the purchase of the game. I wasted so many hours just trying to get into the game so I could play it. It sure looked pretty good the few times I got through, but the login experience was so terrible that I never subbed. I must’ve wasted around 15 hours or so trying to log in, and got to actually play about half that amount.

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deekay_plus

>finally get into the game
>logged off by the system
>allways a good time

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kanbe

That’s my thoughts on this as well. I’ve already had that happen due to the instance problems and it’s not fun.

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