Star Citizen’s 3.0 alpha appears to have been delayed yet again

Ever wonder whether developers regret transparency? With Star Citizen, probably not so much when the money keeps coming anyway, even when the game’s 3.0 alpha and persistent universe continue being delayed.

In April, CIG estimated 3.0 for this summer, achieved mainly by pushing off many of its features to later in the year. Earlier this month, we found out that 3.0 would be delayed into August following a month in Evocati testing. And this week’s production schedule report suggests it’ll be even further delayed.

“This week, we entered the optimization, polish and bug fixing phase for the 3.0 feature set,” says CIG. “As there have been so many features and content implemented, we’ve encountered some stability issues that we want to address before going to a wider test audience. The ongoing work on the new Patcher system (that will save you from having to completely re-download each build) and some new bugs with CopyBuild3 (our internal version of the patcher) have also slowed us down. Because of this we have pushed back the Evocati and subsequent date ranges to reflect the additional time needed to get Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 ready for prime time.”

Redditors keeping track of changes in the production schedule have pointed out out that major systems (mission givers, inventory system, entity owner manager, the UI) received either no updates this week or delays, in some cases up to an additional three weeks, putting Evocati testing at least that far out and the actual patch even further than that. Speculation over Gamescom and CitizenCon causing further delays isn’t unwarranted.

“There isn’t a lot interesting happening,” the Redditor who monitors the schedule, KJ3Farden, notes. “All delays observed are replicates of the 3.0.0 delays, and no task has been completed this week. One thing to observe is that none of the tasks that aren’t in the 3.0.0 schedule were delayed since the start of the Global Progress Watch. This probably means that there isn’t any overview from CIG on what’s out of 3.0.0 (at least on the schedule we’re given), and tasks that are marked as completed may not actually be.”

A Reddit thread complaining about what it characterizes as an eight-month delay and accusing Chris Roberts of knowingly lying about the game’s progress has over a thousand upvotes so far. “Meltdown” wouldn’t be an unfair word, but something tells me we’ll be right back here on repeat in another two weeks.

Source: Official site. Cheers, Cotic.
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299 Comments on "Star Citizen’s 3.0 alpha appears to have been delayed yet again"

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Mr_Planthead

I’m trying to remember the last article I read where someone wrote what appears to be an entire book in the comments section defending a game. Or where developers who seem to have their own games to worry about come in to comment and seem to know stalker-like facts like how many viewers someones getting on their streams.

dsnart
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dsnart

As the local and GREAT GAME DEVELOPER of our time. I would like to point out Delays are part of Game design.
-But these Blog post are just as silly as the content in them. Making something more then what it is to gain traction. When can we expect to get Creditable Neutral blog post? the hyper Inflation bias from this writer is spewing over **into the post.** (edit: Into their posts)

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Space Captain Zor

Let’s remember to keep these 3 things in proper perspective and used appropriately:
Opinions

a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Assertions

a confident and forceful statement of fact or belief.

Facts

a thing that is indisputably the case.

It’s easy to lose sight of the important differences between the 3

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German Avila

Great…DSmart ruined space games and now massively.

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primal

he hasnt ruined space games because hes never put out anything relevant to ruin the genre

dsnart
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dsnart

@primal has a point. Let’s take a look at the facts here. FORM THOSE who game keys weren’t stolen back by him for leaving bad reviews. let’s scroll down and look for ourselves shall we?
(Line of Defense Steam page)

https://steamcommunity.com/app/266620

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Joe Blobers

Dsnart thanks for pointing out facts about the other guy. However I would suggest to avoid to link anything to his “game” or even name it… because this is exactly what he is looking for and why he was kicked out of CIG.

Leave Last Outrageous Disaster in his oblivion. that does not deserve any king of advertising, direct or indirect. No need to inflict such “experience” to players… and to give 19$ not refundable to a guy with such toxic behavior toward PC Community at large :)

Yangers
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Yangers

It’s gotta be a meme at this point.

Reader

Never saw that one coming… /s

HA!

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Kevin McCaughey

Quel surprise.

styopa
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styopa

comment image

styopa
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styopa

((Deleted by mod at commenter request!))

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primal

i usually use postimg

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Darkwalker75 .

Is it just me or is it not showing the images for others as well?

All I see is an image with saying “Please update your account to enable 3rd party hosting” apparently from photobucket.

styopa
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styopa

Nah, you’re seeing it correctly; when I posted I saw that and it wouldn’t let me edit/delete. :|

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Darkwalker75 .

Is that an issue with Photobucket or something?
I have seen it on other sites as well which is why I ask.

styopa
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styopa

Yeah, I was surprised because I found it on giphy, which was a direct link to photobucket which SHOULD be impossible…but when I linked it, it failed.
Bizarre.
DIAF photobucket.

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Utakata

You could try posting those from you hard drive instead if 3rd party hosts are giving you flack. :)

styopa
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styopa

Yeah, I saw that, but for some reason I wasn’t able to edit/delete, so I flagged for mods to purge but I guess they haven’t done it. :|
So I look like a dope.
Isn’t the first, nor, I’m sure, the last.

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Utakata

I personally don’t think you look dope over this. Rather the site in question tripped you up on the way to the comedy podium. :(

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Brother Maynard

CIG need to hire a professional PR / communication manager or team. The number of PR hiccups they’ve been producing over the past couple of years is becoming embarassing.

They keep relying on ‘Chris as a one-of-us starry-eyed enthusiastic CEO’ whose all too frequent blunders are basically supposed to be endearing and immediately forgotten. That worked up to a certain point. That point was around 3 years ago.

I know it all started as an indie project, but at this time this aspect is probably the last amateurish part of the whole project, which in all other characteristics joined the big league a long time ago. It’s probably too hard for CR, but he just needs to let go…

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dsmart

They have David Swofford. He’s an industry veteran. But being a close friend of Chris Roberts from back in the day, means that he’s just the shill machine, rather than the voice of reason. Which is a shame because David is a stand up kinda guy, though imo still complicit in this whole mess.

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”They have David Swofford. He’s an industry veteran. But being a close friend of Chris Roberts from back in the day, means that he’s just the shill machine;;; though imo still complicit in this whole mess”

Damned this section is very informative!

Today we discover that a very talented person: David Swofford, a stand up kinda guy, an industry veteran.. become a puppet of CR… by which miracle or curse we do not know.
No better… he is an accomplice of a Scam (flagged by you DS as such still few days ago).

Technically speaking, does it fall in the Free Internet act description of an opinion or a libel? Who care DS right… You never say it and what you say has been diverted of your original statement.
Another one of your proven none-attack behavior against CR right? :)

Joe Blobers is an idiot. Is that libel? Are you going to call the internet police on me now?

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Joe Blobers

Quote Erhan Altay:”Joe Blobers is an idiot. Is that libel? Are you going to call the internet police on me now?”

Definition: “denoting a person of low intelligence”

No Dear Erhan, I guess you express your opinion as best as you can… But if you want that your opinion matter, whatever your opinion, you should elaborate a bit. That could help me to try approach your level? :)

Nevertheless that new post helped push this article at the Top of the 6 most Popular Comment Threads widget, for the next few weeks.
Hence more visibility to SC.

Let say it is an assumed trade off :)

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Armsbend

Money would be better spent hiring a top level project manager. One who can effectively communicate between teams. PR falls into place if your project remains on schedule.

I think you are simply suggesting someone who is better at complete bullshit than Roberts.

oldandgrumpy
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oldandgrumpy

Duct tape for Chris would be cheaper and more effective :)

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shear

Wouldn’t change anything though, CR is on top, he is the boss, so what he says goes regardless of who is managing the project. You need somebody above him and there is simply no one above him in the company.

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Armsbend

It’s true but is he surrendered himself to the the PM guy it could work. Having worn a REALLY bad project management hat in my past I know how extremely difficult the job can be in software. Managing a 400 person + team takes an absolute pro who knows what he is doing.

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dsmart

Exactly. He is accountable to noone. And that’s why the project is now doomed.

Godnaz
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Godnaz

Let’s be real though, his brother Erin was the driving force to get this thing going. The project almost failed in 2014 and he came in , took over project management and saved Star Citizen.

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dsmart

Let’s be real though, his brother Erin was the driving force to get this thing going. The project almost failed in 2014 and he came in , took over project management and saved Star Citizen.

He hasn’t “saved” anything, except the ill-gotten gains from backer money. The project is still a dumpster fire and unmitigated disaster. Basically it’s now Freelance 2.0 – and EVERYONE in the industry is talking.

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Joe Blobers

Quote:”and EVERYONE in the industry is talking.”

… you mean you and the two guys you hired to never finish the “never ending early access kicked out of Steam? :)

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shear

I really would love to see what devs think about this whole SC thing. They have to be talking about it, just sadly not publically.
I think it’s important to note, that I do not, infact, hate SC. I want a game like that badly, it’s every sci fi nerds wet dream as I have described it many times. That’s what CiG is praying on, it very obvious. I haven’t given them a dime though because the “dream” portion of that description is very important. I think.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:”They have to be talking about it, just sadly not publically.”

You mean like anyone talking endlessly after work about his job between friends and relatives… if only we had anon sources. That will help for sure non-hater as you describe yourself obligently Shear.

By “CIG praying on”, you mean I guess workers not violating NDA rules and there satisfaction to work in such great company with a project supported by +700.000 backers and upcoming patch demonstrating seamless landing from space to planet?

I agree with you Shear. That would be so great!

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mike foster

Devs have about the same range of mindsets as anyone else.

Some folks are optimistic/hopeful, some think the whole thing is a disaster, some are wait-and-see folks who hope it works out for the studio and its backers. Many ARE backers.

Devs are just like anyone else so I’d be skeptical of anyone trying to paint the picture of “talk in the industry.” The only devs who might have a unique perspective are those who worked with Chris Roberts in the past — but history has already shown us what that can be like at best (Wing Commander) and at worst (Freelancer).

I will say that generally in the industry people want others to succeed. It’s great to watch a team with challenges get over the hurdles and launch something sick, and it sucks to watch people you probably know or worked with before lose their jobs on a bad launch/project.

At the end of the day none of it really matters anyway. CIG will either deliver, at some point, or they won’t. Everything between now and then is just speculation.

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agemyth 😩

Are you trying to tell us that devs are just people too? Lies!

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mike foster

I will say that I’m INFINITELY curious about SC. CIG’s LA studio is across the street from Riot and sometimes I walk by it hoping to catch a peek at something. Never do, though :(

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primal

what saved star citizen was crytek not paying there employees for 6 months and CIG picking up the crytek guys. they were struggling because it was hard for them to find lots of people with intimate knowledge of the engine. if crytek guys didnt come on board i think the project would of failed 1-2 years ago. or they may of just scrapped star citizen and just focused on squadron 42

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Brother Maynard

Crytek’s troubles helped CIG a lot, but I wouldn’t say the project would have failed without them. From the beginning Frankfurt’s focus was on cleaning up whatever FPS mess CIG got back from Illfonic and then on the planetary and procedural tech. Without them it would have come years later, but the game itself was not going to fail because of that one aspect.

CIG had a lot of CryEngine expertise even before Crytek engineers joined. From the beginning Paul Reindell was a key person in the whole project, including setting up the first SC demo for Kickstarter – he’s still CIG’s lead engineer as far as I know; and the Tracy brothers also came from Crytek (Sean Tracy’s previous job was basically Crytek’s US representative (they called his job Cryevangelist) – Sean and Dan even published a few books on CryEngine, they should still be available on Amazon. Even before Crytek engineers came on board, CIG had up to 14 graphics engineers with expert knowledge of the engine.

Personally, I would say the lion’s share of returning the project back on track lies with the F42 UK studio. After that, making Erin CIG’s global head of production made complete sense.

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primal

no they didnt they were struggling to find people. Frankfurt was made because the crytek guys wanted to stay in germany and could work remotely so they set up an office.

All the FPS was CIGs fault actually because they didnt set any standardised measurements for things like doors so they were totally wrong and then they werent using the latest builds and stuff so it had to be brought in house.

They didnt get any real traction on the engine rewrites till frankfurt got up and running and only then did things start to progress alot quicker. Reindell was there from the start but so what, the engineering work involved was far to much.

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dsmart

what saved star citizen was crytek not paying there employees for 6 months and CIG picking up the crytek guys. they were struggling because it was hard for them to find lots of people with intimate knowledge of the engine. if crytek guys didnt come on board i think the project would of failed 1-2 years ago. or they may of just scrapped star citizen and just focused on squadron 42

Yet still no game.

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primal

and they wouldnt have gotten anywhere close to this far without them

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Joe Blobers

Quote cmdr_cotic:”I cannot make head nor tail of what you are trying to say.”

Man, you shoot the above quote sentence and 1 minute and 24 seconds after: “all the tangents Blooper goes through…Who would want to read all that weak justification?”

So one thing and the opposite . How do you know about tangents if you do not read them? :)

If a bit of sociology and human facts bother you, I understand that everything beside what you repeat endlessly from article to article “5 years and 155 M$” sounds really boring.

If you are looking for the head and tail of individual comment or the usefulness of a comment section, do not look further… or skip it at once.

I am not sorry to try elevating a bit the debate over a simple Yes/No blame game.
Weakness is not about tangents quite the opposite. It has more to do with situational awareness (helping individuals and teams understand human factors) and tunneled senses effects.

The exercice is called “thought Tunnel” and is also known as ‘Conscience Alley’… But as you won’t going to read it, it does not matter right?
Yes/No. Black/White. Up/Down.

What bother with everything else in between when we can simplify life with two options: On/Off :)

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primal

ive decided to change the christening date of my star citizen towel from when the game releases to alpha 3. going to be a glorious day to dry my jewels off when i can fly down into levski and hop on my nox apoa.

glory be star citizen, now and forever arrgghhhmen (bit of pirate at the end!)

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Armsbend

Is this sexual innuendo or a real thing?

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primal

seriously, im saving christening my star citizen towel by using it to dry off after a shower or bath for when it launches. changed it to alpha 3 now cus cant have my towel sitting around being unused for another 2 years or so. Just checked i bought my towel August 25th 2014 and not used it yet. ill christen it at alpha 3 seeing as thats going to be close enough to what the experience is going to be like.

will be a glorious day. think ill set it to download then go have a superior bath/shower, dry myself off, if im off work that day get a superior vodka coke drink, go in to it and have my jaw drop to the floor at the awesomeness of it.

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Armsbend

Lol I was attempting to be dirty *winkyeyez*

I hope you see that day!

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primal

hahah yeah fair enough and yeah i was really talking about drying my nuts off!

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Chosenxeno .

Star Citizen. Coming in 2025…and it will already be dated…

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Viktoras Butkus

Oh wow, I can’t believe it happened, oh wait I can I said it would 2 weeks ago. This is a joke at this point. :DDDD

edangerous
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edangerous

Even streamers like WTFOSaurus are losing heart https://clips.twitch.tv/AntediluvianProductiveKathyFunRun

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primal

hes given up everything to stream a game in alpha lmao. what an idiot, he should go play something like league of legends, if he picks up alot of people watching he could make a fortune

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Armsbend

You have to be decent at MOBAs to stream MOBAs. Or very pretty.

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primal

just have to learn it and have some personality to carry it across, you dont need to have mad skillz for it

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Armsbend

I watch moba streams a lot and have never seen a male who is bad at the game he is playing be popular. And they aren’t particularly easy to just be good at all of a sudden.

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primal

thats why i said learn it. i cant imagine league of legends is that difficult to play. just have to spend maybe a few months to learn it, like all the powers, gear etc etc which makes it incredibly easy when you can look on the internet for recommended builds gear etc etc strategies and abilities

Godnaz
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Godnaz

To be fair, WTFSaurus gambled on Star Citizen as his main audience game. He does stream other games but he doesn’t get nearly as man people watching, subscribing and donating when he does play other games and even then, I imagine he’s losing viewership because he’s right. It’s been the same old tech demo for a long time. He would do better getting into the MOBA or survival shooter scene for his livelihood until Star Citizen gets something substantial. https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryLazySnailEagleEye

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dsmart

His streams have never averaged more than 100 viewers. So I don’t see how he was planning on making money from Star Citizen.

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shear

To be fair, to me, it sounds like a horrible business plan to start streaming a game that is notorious for slow updates and then complain about it. Can’t blame CiG for this one. That silly move is on him.

Godnaz
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Godnaz

Streaming isn’t sustainable. Agreed.

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primal

it can be, one guy accidentally showed how much he earned and it was over $200k in the space of a few months but of course he has a lot of followers and he gets big donations all the time.

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Joe Blobers

Edangerous, this is a drama within the drama. This one is based on nothing but human frustration. Frustration is handled by giving someone what he is looking for. SC 3.0 will be in Evocati hands before you noticed it… then a couple weeks after, in backers hands. The all stuff will be forgotten… until 3.1. schedule report… rince and repeat.

The point is that estimate dates are estimate and that a triple-A can not be done in 3 years. Does CIG should provide estimated SQ42 Chapter 1 date? Yes of course and they have planned to do it later this year.

What we see with this little drama, that will fade out like all others in a couple of days, it is frustration handling.
People read what they want. Like for SC 3.0 patch…” this is really terrible, the all project is not going to be released because the most ambitious patch of SC history is pushed to fix bugs by a few weeks… World is collapsing!!” Sure :)

You can keep linking whatever you want… that just prove human behavior… words, click, upvoting…. and nothing more because in reality people know it is not THAT important.

There are 107.000 SC reddit subscribers:
* 2244 upvoted thread “8 months delay is disingenuous”
* 669 upvoted thread “Salt Levels in /r/StarCitizen over time” which does show frustration is opposite to progress done. The more you progress.. the more -some- people can’t handle the wait. Human behavior.
* 390 “I literally don’t care when it’s done, keep up the good work CIG”. Pretty self explanatory.
And I do not count all positive thread to specific progress done like planet landing.

So let’smake some math: 2244 – (669+390) = 1185
Which give… 1.11 % of subReddit population.
I do not say those person do not express a trouble, somehow, but that give you the relativity of things…

Take the time to read the hundreds of comments and you will see that people LOVE the game. There are not going to quit because of a thread…

Pledges even jumped from average pledge of 46K to… 81 K$ during two consecutives days. Yes the days of the “ennnnd”

Expect with 3.0 and 3.1 to see a jump of 10.000’s NEW backers each month.

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loo mb

Is this game released yet?

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Rumm

It really sucks that some of you actually have valid points and criticisms of this project, but you also have the biggest shithead on the internet batting cleanup for your team. DOOOOM (Soon, for realsies this time, believe me).

luxundae
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luxundae

I do hope this gets released sometime. If its vision is even partially realized, it could be a lot of fun to play around with.

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Annoyed badger

a delay in SC you say? my my, thats totally unprece….oh wait no its not.

Lul.

looking more and more like this game is never going to be released. and why should it, people are paying for the development experience…they dont seem to care if a game actually comes out or not…..

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Joe Blobers

Annoyed Quote:”they dont seem to care if a game actually comes out or not…..”

You probably missed the little drama in one Reddit thread. People care and they express it the way they can. And thanks for caring as well on game future status, this is released by successive patch right now, with 3.0 coming in few weeks. 5 others patch are planned during the next quarters approximately till end of 2018.

Just have a look to CIG schedule report if you mind trying to understand thing rather than throw your annoyed mood in all direction :)

After you strike 41 times(!) the page down key of this schedule report, all information pertaining to 3.0 release, you can notice there are a handfull of remaining points versus those completed.. Mainly for debug purposes.

What you say about SC is like pretending a golf course does not exist because there are a few moles holes here and there…

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Annoyed badger

really, because I can play on a golf course with a few mole hill (I presume you meant hills), I cant play SC.

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Joe Blobers

You can Annoyed but not play obviously as a released game, but participate in a game in Alpha for test purposes. Otherwise why pledging and downloading it? Just wait until you got a firm release date…

Out of the 18-hole golf course, you got 3 already available. More are added and we will get 80% of them by end of 2018 if not all of them (TBD)

Alpha is stated in Bold/Colored letters when you pledge at two different place.

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Annoyed badger

you really do shill hard mate. I cant play a game if there is no game, simplez, and no amount of your bullshit is going to change that.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Annoyed:”no amount of your bullshit is going to change that.”

You probably missed the point when I stated explicity this is not a game released yet… So here it is again:
You can play Annoyed but not play obviously as a released game, but participate in a game in Alpha for test purposes. Otherwise why pledging and downloading it? Just wait until you got a firm release date…

Or may be I misunderstood you and you mean that a game in Alpha not released yet = Bullshit.
In that case sorry but my Oxford dictionary was missing this new definition.

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shear

2018 :D

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Alien Legion

This ‘game’ is delaying itself right into obsolescence. If/when it ever launches, outside of those who have already pledged, will there be anyone left around who cares? Will it even be remembered outside of “hey, isn’t that the game which is X years late”?

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Joe Blobers

Alien Legion quote:”This ‘game’ is delaying itself right into obsolescence…. will there be anyone left around who cares? ”

The bracket on “game”, you know because Alpha, this is not a game released and playable as such… yet.
Plus your wording show a not so complex understanding on how long things take for a team starting with 12 members and a budget of 6M$. It is not because there is a little drama about a couple weeks of removing bugs that a full game development will go faster or slower… or is at risk.

The question of most people really interested and involved in this project is about the date provided in schedule report not if the game will ever release…

And about your question mark if there is anyone left around who cares, the funding bumped from average per day 46K$ to… 81K$ during the past 48 hours.

You can’t imagine the number of people waiting for 3.0 and following patch bringing: new activities (mining, salvaging, repair….) or NPC’s or Female character.
The global triple-A is project absolutely not late. And I do not see it through a crystal ball :)

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Alien Legion

“Plus your wording show a not so complex understanding on how long things take for a team starting with 12 members and a budget of 6M$.”

Ah, the last gasp of the dying whales.

Clearly YOUR decades of experience in the planning, development, marketing, release and support of a “global triple-A” video games makes YOU the obvious choice to tell people what they know and how they should think.

You know who else it seems doesn’t know what it takes to release a “global triple-A” video game? Chris Roberts.

In Oct. 2012 they set an estimated delivery date of Nov. 2014.
Here we are in July 2017 and the game is so far off that no one even dare make a projection.

Add in the astounding number of date THEY set and THEY missed. It is not the community setting these imaginary dates only to fail at every turn.

However your clearly right, it’s everyone else who does not know what goes into a “global triple-A” title.

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dsmart

In Oct. 2012 they set an estimated delivery date of Nov. 2014.
Here we are in July 2017 and the game is so far off that no one even dare make a projection.

Yup. And as of today, Star Citizen is 2.8 yrs late (Nov 2014) and $90.5M ($155M now) over budget. Those are irrefutable facts that most of these guys choose to ignore.

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:” Those are irrefutable facts that most of these guys choose to ignore.”.

Those are irrefutable LIES that DS refuse to admit as it serve his toxic behavior against CR and SC Community.

Like the “seamless planetary landing” is a feature “decades away”

DS = Lies, obfuscation, deceptive actions..

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primal

tbf seamless planetary landings is decades away for him cus hes still living in the 80’s!

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zeko_rena

Did he finally make it to the 80s?

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Joe Blobers

Quote Alien:” the last gasp of the dying whales… In Oct. 2012 they set an estimated delivery date of Nov. 2014″

You are correct Alien legion, I have decades of experience in the planning, development, marketing, release and support but not in games industry. Which allow me to provide my educated opinion about the current situation, complemented by +25 years as player of numerous video games.

You have also the right to write: ”This ‘game’ is delaying itself right into obsolescence…. will there be anyone left around who cares? ”.
Do I have the right to disagree?

About your remark I quoted, you probably missed a major millestone when CR asked Backers for a more ambitious scope? This was approved by Backers with pledges increasing from original kickstarter of 2M$ as per below data:

Nov. 2012 end of Kickstarter:  goal was 2M$.  They got 6M$…
2012: 7M$
2013: 35M$
2014: 68M$
2015: 104M$
2016: 140M$
2017: 155M$  (July)

The current triple-A status of SC, released modules and upcoming patch are not making this project late by any means. If by end of 2018 we still are at 3.0 or 3.1, questions could be raised but for now and based on facts (team of 12 in Nov. 2012, change of scope, engine tweak, pipelines of various techs…), the project is not late.
CIG did provided schedule release for patch since January. This has proven to be very valuable to all to understand and follow patch evolution. The next step for CIG is clearly to provide the same type of Schedule for SQ42 Chapter 1 and at least the next 2 or three patch. To increase the level of transparency toward 2018.

But feel free to think the opposite and to say “If/when it ever launches”, to talk about “dying whales” or why not, even evaluate a release date by the average lenght of those whales… tail fin for instance. I value every opinion as long as someone can explain on what they are based on. Otherwise why not just roll dices?

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shear

What I love the most about the whole “12 people and 6m” argument is this.

First of all, they had 12 people and they promised a game in 2 years? So they lied? CR had no team to build a game he wanted to build and he promised you the game in 2 years? What?It sounds straight up ridiculous.

Second, they asked for less than that, they got more than they asked for. So CR had to estimate how much it would cost him to put a game out in two years, got more than he asked for and still couldn’t do it.

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Darkwalker75 .

Lying implies intentional deceit, which seems to be something some people don’t want to understand.

They didn’t just change the scope of the game, they actually asked the community if they should make the bigger game.
They had a poll where over 80% voted for them to continue funding and build the bigger game.

Is it really too much to ask of you to actually educate yourself and try to understand, rather than judge everything based on what you think you know or think you understand?

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dsmart

Lying implies intentional deceit, which seems to be something some people don’t want to understand.

Yes, we know. That’s the whole point.

They didn’t just change the scope of the game, they actually asked the community if they should make the bigger game.
They had a poll where over 80% voted for them to continue funding and build the bigger game.

No, that’s actually false. The “poll” did NO SUCH THING.

And even if it did, it was still up to Chris to know when to say no, or when to determine whether or not it could be done.

Aside from the fact that, somehow, you don’t think that regardless of WHO made the decision, that the game scope DID in fact change and increase.

09-17-13 Poll: Crowd-Funding Counter

11-03-12 Poll: Additional Stretch Goals

Is it really too much to ask of you to actually educate yourself and try to understand, rather than judge everything based on what you think you know or think you understand?

That’s what you guys are doing in all your feeble attempts at obfuscation and revisionist history.

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”No, that’s actually false. The “poll” did NO SUCH THING.
And even if it did,”

DS you are so fun. You never stop day and night to twist reality and mixing everything up and down to try reaching your toxic objectives. Consequently you don’t know anymore… which lie is true :)

Proof in your own words in this very post: “the “poll” did NO SUCH THING. And even if it did”

Truth is not a quantum particle. It can’t be true and false at the same time. You are so deep in you inception that you lose even the basic meaning of language and more scraring (for you), you can’t anymore separate the basic of what make the sense of life:
Adding purpose and values is the only way to live a meaningful life:

… If you are not able to differentiate truth from lies you can’t achieve any goal… even toxic ones :)

I am really sorry for you man. Sincerely.

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Space Captain Zor

The polls themselves are far less important a decision than the choice to allow the crowd to continue to pledge. Your point about CR ultimately making that decision is the key, and should be the most important discussion/lesson of the entire saga thus far.

If that decision went the other way regardless of polling data, which was at best a minuscule subset of the interest in the game, this whole story would be vastly different. The game probably still wouldn’t be out yet, but far closer than it is.

But here we are. The store was left open and the customers continue to beat a path.

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dsmart

The polls themselves are far less important a decision than the choice to allow the crowd to continue to pledge. Your point about CR ultimately making that decision is the key, and should be the most important discussion/lesson of the entire saga thus far.

If that decision went the other way regardless of polling data, which was at best a minuscule subset of the interest in the game, this whole story would be vastly different. The game probably still wouldn’t be out yet, but far closer than it is.

But here we are. The store was left open and the customers continue to beat a path.

Precisely!!

That’s why when these guys use that as an excuse for a project that’s now a train wreck, we just lol.

Aside from that, Chris was the one who made the goals and the associated features, not the backers. So that’s another issue where the responsibility lies with him to ensure that goals he proposed, and which backers put money toward, are achievable. As we now know, they weren’t.

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dsnart

Atleast They haven’t sunk as low as to pull game keys from people who criticized their game like a certain person That’s Ranting and pouting. Let’s not forget the past dsmart Your steam page shows the world who you are as a Internet Warlord.

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Space Captain Zor

Can you try to remain clear that statements like “as we now know” are your opinion and not something factual? Unless you’re holding out on us that you have a time machine. Your comment was good until you threw that in there.

You also can’t just dismiss the part where backers continue/d to pour money into this. That’s also a lot of responsibility to shoulder. CR’s decisions are validated and kept alive as long as people are willing to pay up.

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dsmart

Can you try to remain clear that statements like “as we now know” are your opinion and not something factual? Unless you’re holding out on us that you have a time machine. Your comment was good until you threw that in there.

It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. The goals are not achievable or the game wouldn’t be 2.8 years late, and $90.5M over budget.

You also can’t just dismiss the part where backers continue/d to pour money into this. That’s also a lot of responsibility to shoulder. CR’s decisions are validated and kept alive as long as people are willing to pay up.

Oh, so you think that money going into the project by less than 2K whales (last we checked), out of an estimated 500K citizens, makes his decisions validated? Are you high?

Do I need to remind you that when analysts make predictions, it’s based on info “on hand at the time”?

When I said that back in Oct 2015 that I gave them 90 days, that was before a bunch of whales stuck in Sunk Cost Falllacy, decided to keep giving them money, even as CIG continued to use deception and trickery to aid that effort. And it’s only now some of you are feigning shock and surprise that it’s precisely what they’ve been doing all this time.

Now 2.8 years late, and $90.5M over budget, please explain to me HOW they would still be operational at the end of Jan 2016, after having raised $107M.

So yes, in a way, I was right. This is evidenced by the fact that the project is late, is nowhere near completion, and has raised an additional $48M since end of Jan 2016. If backers had stopped giving them money, the project, for all intent and purposes, would most likely be dead by now.

So increasing the scope hasn’t done anything but INCREASE the chances of the project FAILING. And even the increased scope was fully funded to the tune of $65M back in Nov 2014. The same month that both games were supposedly being released.

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Space Captain Zor

“Late” and “over budget” are fun to toss around and make headlines, but hard to actually apply it to something that technically has no timeline or budget accountability. You can cite their estimates all you wish to enforce your assertions/opinions/rants etc but you can’t change the definition of an estimate, and estimates are theirs to give and theirs to uphold as they see fit.

I won’t pretend that PR estimates don’t often have ulterior motives (revenue) and CIG certainly looks guilty of this to keep that hype/pledge train going but responsibility of believing those estimates and acting on them rests entirely on the crowd–unless someone wants to try and rationalize crowdfunding as some form of gambling and pull the addiction exploitation card? Good luck.

As you cannot actually in good faith speak on the intentions of each and every person who has backed SC in large or small amount you should really refrain from suggesting that emotional instability or irrationality (re: your Sunk Cost Fallacy) is the primary basis of their success at raising money. That’s fairly insulting to a consumer group that you yourself have worked to raise money from via Steam.

Is Line of Defense also unachievable since it is by equal measure also years late and over budget? If cost overrun/escalation is the primary method of predicting success or failure then you may as well assume better than half of all projects will fail or cannot be achieved.

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dsmart

“Late” and “over budget” are fun to toss around and make headlines, but hard to actually apply it to something that technically has no timeline or budget accountability. You can cite their estimates all you wish to enforce your assertions/opinions/rants etc but you can’t change the definition of an estimate, and estimates are theirs to give and theirs to uphold as they see fit.

Yes you can…

IT’S LATE

Kickstarter released date estimate, Nov 2014.

ToS gave 12 month addition for delays

ToS revision gave 18 month addition for delays

ergo, by all accounts, in Aug 2017, 2.8 yrs later, and with the game nowhere even 15% completed, it’s LATE.

IT’S OVER BUDGET

Kickstarter budget asked for and received $2M in Oct 2012

RSI website increased scope budget asked for and received $65M in Nov 2014

ergo, by all accounts, in Aug 2017, having raised $155M, and with the game nowhere even 15% completed, it’s OVER BUDGET.

Go ahead with the mental gymnastics though.

As you cannot actually in good faith speak on the intentions of each and every person who has backed SC in large or small amount you should really refrain from suggesting that emotional instability or irrationality (re: your Sunk Cost Fallacy) is the primary basis of their success at raising money. That’s fairly insulting to a consumer group that you yourself have worked to raise money from via Steam.

No, it’s not an insult. It’s perfectly accurate assessment that exists in all instances where an investment of time, money, or resources are involved. Maybe look up things you’re debating, understand them first, before engaging in circular arguments.

I sell my games. I don’t and never have crowd-funded them.

LoD was in Early Access when we enabled SteamWorks backend for testing, and those who wanted to get in on the ground floor, were able to buy in if they so choose. We switched to CBT when we were done and had enough metrics to continue with our backend testing.

It was never on Greenlight

It was never in crowd funding

Early Access isn’t crowd funding

Comparing an indie game to one with a triple-A budget and team to match, is a non-starter, and a flawed argument. Yet you guys keep doing it.

Is Line of Defense also unachievable since it is by equal measure also years late and over budget? If cost overrun/escalation is the primary method of predicting success or failure then you may as well assume better than half of all projects will fail or cannot be achieved.

False Equivalent

LoD has a fixed budged, a fixed design scope which hasn’t changed, and 3000AD isn’t beholden to the public for its funding, scope, or delivery schedule. And by the very nature of Early Access, I could cancel it tomorrow, or keep it going for the next decade, with zero repercussions as that’s the difference between Star Citizen and LoD.

As to the technical side of “unachievable”, let’s not even go there because that’s a conversation you don’t really want to have with me considering that this is LoD changelog (be sure to go to the archives), while this is Star Citizen changelog. At peak, we were less than 16. They were over 500.

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”And by the very nature of Early Access, I could cancel it tomorrow, or keep it going for the next decade, with zero repercussions”

That explain why you are alone and never tried to go for crowdfunding. No accountability to anyone including players… and Last Outrageous Disaster is mainly a copy/paste of a 20 years old “game”, notorious for being unplayable and that nobody can’t play.

16 dev at peak… man how much did you paid them? :)

You are not incompetent because of your first unplayable game, but because you did not improve in 20 years and do the opposite of what you say to seniors developers who did prove to deliver. Something people remember.

You did released this “thing” 15th times under different names. Same pitch, same lies.

You have no excuse DS and your current attitude to attack daily CR through SC community is pathetic at best.

To finish on a good laugh: when is your next Prophecy of Doom date… 90 days top?
Is it before or after CIG released 3.0 patche for “seamless space to planet landing, not possible before decades?”

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Space Captain Zor

lol, really sir…

Yes you can…

Um, no. You cannot re-define the word estimate.

IT’S LATE

Kickstarter released date estimate, Nov 2014.

ToS gave 12 month addition for delays

ToS revision gave 18 month addition for delays

ergo, by all accounts, in Aug 2017, 2.8 yrs later, and with the game nowhere even 15% completed, it’s LATE.

IT’S OVER BUDGET

Kickstarter budget asked for and received $2M in Oct 2012

RSI website increased scope budget asked for and received $65M in Nov 2014

ergo, by all accounts, in Aug 2017, having raised $155M, and with the game nowhere even 15% completed, it’s OVER BUDGET.

Go ahead with the mental gymnastics though.

Just by reciting all their estimates over and over doesn’t make them anything more than just estimates. Those are CIG’s estimates. CIG is an independent developer. And again, as you yourself are very aware given your own projects, independent developer estimates are theirs and theirs alone to uphold and act upon. If you can do it so can anyone else. I have seen you defend LoD that way countless times just as you have in the above comment.

No, it’s not an insult. It’s perfectly accurate assessment that exists in all instances where an investment of time, money, or resources are involved. Maybe look up things you’re debating, understand them first, before engaging in circular arguments.

*sigh* You insult while trying to claim your insults aren’t insults. That’s unflattering. Anyway, yes Derek. It IS an insult to point at a huge group of people and tell them they are all emotionally unstable and that it’s the only rational for them having continued their support of an indie game. It wouldn’t be an insult to simply point out that cases of it are likely to exist to some degree. But to rationalize that as the sole reason your 90-day scenario failed to materialize is delusional.

Early Access isn’t crowd funding

ROFL!!! *gasp* bahahahaha, oh god. Good one.

Comparing an indie game to one with a triple-A budget and team to match, is a non-starter, and a flawed argument.

What’s that about mental gymnastics?

False Equivalent

LoD has a fixed budged, a fixed design scope which hasn’t changed, and 3000AD isn’t beholden to the public for its funding, scope, or delivery schedule. And by the very nature of Early Access, I could cancel it tomorrow, or keep it going for the next decade, with zero repercussions as that’s the difference between Star Citizen and LoD.

Still doing those gymnastics or is this just straight hypocrisy? Of course, how can anyone argue with your delivery schedule vs budget when you’ll just say it’s still under this (assuming) undisclosed fixed budget… It’s not as if CIG can just make the same argument for as long as backers continue to pour money on it… Oh wait.

As to the technical side of “unachievable”, let’s not even go there because that’s a conversation you don’t really want to have with me considering that this is LoD changelog (be sure to go to the archives), while this is Star Citizen changelog. At peak, we were less than 16. They were over 500.

No no, let’s go there. You don’t earn a hall pass to have double standards. Your game is late as hell too, bro. You gonna redefine the word late as well?

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shear

Early Access isn’t crowd funding

ROFL!!! *gasp* bahahahaha, oh god. Good one.

It isn’t though, it’s clearly stated on steam that a dev is supposed to be able to finish the game even if little to no people buy the game. Hence, early access can’t be considered as crowd funding because crowdfunded games are solely depending on the money the “crowd” is giving them.

“Just by reciting all their estimates over and over doesn’t make them anything more than just estimates.”

Right and that’s absolutely correct and would be fine… if they weren’t taking money from the people who spend it based on these estimates. You think there is no one out there who spent their xmas money because they were hoping for 3.0? On top of that, you think estimates are there just for fun? No, if you have a job that you estimate will be done by the date X and you don’t deliver you have a good chance to be fired, but CR gets a pass time and time again.

“Comparing an indie game to one with a triple-A budget and team to match, is a non-starter, and a flawed argument.”

They have over 300 people working on this game with a budget of a 155m and rising, that’s absolutely AAA, what other indie devs are in that sort of situation?

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dsmart

Early Access isn’t crowd funding

ROFL!!! *gasp* bahahahaha, oh god. Good one.

It isn’t though, it’s clearly stated on steam that a dev is supposed to be able to finish the game even if little to no people buy the game. Hence, early access can’t be considered as crowd funding because crowdfunded games are solely depending on the money the “crowd” is giving them.

Not true.

When will these games release?
Its up to the developer to determine when they are ready to ‘release’. Some developers have a concrete deadline in mind, while others will get a better sense as the development of the game progresses. You should be aware that some teams will be unable to ‘finish’ their game. So you should only buy an Early Access game if you are excited about playing it in its current state.”

Also it’s about context. In Early Access you are pre-purchasing a game that you can play in it’s CURRENT STATE. You already received what you PAID for, regardless of the state of the game’s development.

The crowd-funding via Indiegogo, Kickstarter etc have a different approach, with different caveats and guidelines.

For all intent and purposes, Star Citizen started as crowd-funding. Once they had a working prototype, they released it. That made it Early Access in some regard because new backers, unlike early backers, immediately had a tech demo to play with.

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shear

“Don’t launch in Early Access if you can’t afford to develop with very few or no sales.

There is no guarantee that your game will sell as many units as you anticipate. If you are counting on selling a specific number of units to survive and complete your game, then you need to think carefully about what it would mean for you or your team if you don’t sell that many units. Are you willing to continue developing the game without any sales? Are you willing to seek other forms of investment?

These are guidelines set by steam.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:”if you have a job that you estimate will be done by the date X and you don’t deliver you have a good chance to be fired”

Seriously Shear what are you talking about? Multi-million project are not based on “reach estimate or get fired”.

Just right now in 2017 I am part of a not so complex project to swap (only a part of activities not all) of a manufacturing software from Oracle to SAP. Both software have 10.000 thousands of Devs, are on the market since more than 10 years not talkinf about the +120M$ budget per year of this company switching to SAP!

Blueprint, workshops, steering Co…. they are 1 years and half late and still won’t deliver this year!

Only someone ignoring totally reality of industry (you know, the facts) can pretend that estimates are the end of anything.

And again… you skeep the change of Scope in 2014.

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shear

Stop with the scope change man, if they didn’t change the scope the game still wouldn’t be out.

And if you really think estimates are there just for fun and not delivering on them is just fine and ok then I am sorry for the people you work for.

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dsmart

Stop with the scope change man, if they didn’t change the scope the game still wouldn’t be out.

And if you really think estimates are there just for fun and not delivering on them is just fine and ok then I am sorry for the people you work for.

I see you’re still arguing with a bot. :)

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shear

I really need to stop, made this account here just to make some few smart remarks, but it;s getting out of control now. :D

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”I see you’re still arguing with a bot. :)”‘

Some news about the “seamless transition from space to planet decades away?

… I learn long time ago that it is better to chat with a competent bot than an incompetent human :)

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Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:” if you really think estimates are there just for fun”

Do not twist my word especially if I never say so… Estimate are not for fun… nor knowledge about how project are handle IRL is radom science.
As well as assuming the project I am in mean “those person work for me”
In this specific case I am a Key-users and just make the observation of facts.

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Space Captain Zor

Eh, well, then I guess people need to re-write the entry for Early Access on Wikipedia *eyeroll*

Right and that’s absolutely correct and would be fine… if they weren’t taking money from the people who spend it based on these estimates.

Anyone who did that has only themselves to blame. That’s precisely the definition of someone who completely misunderstands crowd funding in general.

On top of that, you think estimates are there just for fun? No, if you have a job that you estimate will be done by the date X and you don’t deliver you have a good chance to be fired, but CR gets a pass time and time again.

1. Of course I don’t, that question is absurd
2. Correct, in any traditional producer funded development scenario then yes missed deadlines could result in a termination. But crowd funding is anything but traditional. We the crowd are enabling companies large and small to go about their merry way without a shred of accountability beyond their own self governing and how we respond with our wallets. Not saying that’s ideal but it just is what it is.

They have over 300 people working on this game with a budget of a 155m and rising, that’s absolutely AAA, what other indie devs are in that sort of situation?

Number of employees and budget doesn’t define whether a studio is indie or not. The difference is where that financial support comes from and who the studio is answerable to. Just because it is simply more common that indie studios are small doesn’t mean they all are. For instance, ever heard of Valve?

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shear

How can you blame the people who spent money on the game in hopes for a release based on the estimate? This is how CR is getting away with stuff like that, you just give him a pass and blame the people who support the game… How does that make sense to you?

“2. Correct, in any traditional producer funded development scenario then yes missed deadlines could result in a termination. But crowd funding is anything but traditional”

Oh, so they get a pass because their funding comes from a different source? Money is money and it doesn’t matter where it comes from a mate.

CR is accountable to YOU, you are forgetting that the backers need to start being realistic about what’s happening here. This game isn’t coming out because you as a backer allow it to be in a constant cycle of delays. The sooner backers will start to complain the sooner you’ll see something of substance from the.

“Number of employees and budget doesn’t define whether a studio is an indie or not. The difference is where that financial support com…”

Hell yeah, it does! So by that logic, if you have 300 people and 155m budget that comes from crowdfunding, you are indie, but if you have 300 people and some investors raise 155m for the game you have in development, you are AAA. No, CiG is AAA studio making a AAA game.

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Space Captain Zor

shear, you’re either not listening or you’re only reading what you want to read. I’m not blaming people for missed estimates. I’m saying people who, in your words, spent money on a crowd funded project solely based on an estimated release date have only themselves to blame for their choice to purchase. From the beginning it was spelled out in plain english that estimates are estimates and zero guarantee that they would be met on time. If someone fails to understand what the word ESTIMATE means and they still spend money on condition that the estimate gets met then thats a risk they are taking. If you have a problem with that then your problem is with crowd funding and NOT simply Star Citizen and that is a distinction you need to make going forward. And please, do not get me wrong. I’m not defending the crowd funding model. There are clearly very big problems with it. But what I will defend it against is a wanton disregard/misrepresentation of what crowd funding is and isn’t currently and legally accountable for.

Oh, so they get a pass because their funding comes from a different source?

If you’re talking ethically, then no of course not. People are in their right to protest delays. But in the purest technical and literal sense of the business model, then YES. They do get a pass even if we don’t like it. They can miss every single estimated date they want to as long as they deliver a product in the end. I’m sure that end product has to meet some generally acceptable criteria of completion based on originally promised features and content from the KS but thats a bridge we get to cross much later from now.

CR is accountable to YOU

See, that’s a sticky point currently. He is accountable to deliver a product, and yet because of how unregulated crowd funding is, he isn’t accountable for missing his estimates. It’s pretty cut and dry there. The only real way for backers to speak out is with their wallets. Every other form of communication to them can easily be ignored if it’s not what they want to hear. They have no choice but to hear lost funding.

Hell yeah, it does! So by that logic, if you have 300 people and 155m budget that comes from crowdfunding, you are indie, but if you have 300 people and some investors raise 155m for the game you have in development, you are AAA.

It’s not just my logic, sir. Why don’t you go click on that wikipedia link. You do know that “indie” is short for independent?
A software developer who can operate independently of a producer is by current definition
independent. I don’t know how anyone could misconstrue that.

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shear

“Independent video game development is the video game development process of creating indie games; these are video games, commonly created by individual or small teams of video game developers and usually without significant financial support of a video game publisher or other outside source.”

They aren’t small and their ability to develop is directly dependant on the crowd funding, hence, not independent, you are as a backer the “other outside source”.

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Space Captain Zor

Sorry, but no. That isn’t the reality. The context of “outside source” is and has always been capital investment. That is not what crowd funding is. You can’t twist this up to make it fit your narrative. Your focus is on the “usual” definitions of an independent studio but while CIG doesn’t fit that description it still IS independent and SC is technically an indie title. Go check out the wiki page for Indie Games from which this excerpt is found in the overview:

There is no exact, widely accepted definition of what constitutes an “indie game”,[5][6][7][8] however, indie games generally share certain characteristics. Indie games are developed by individuals, small teams, or small independent companies;[6][9][10] companies that are often specifically formed for the development of one specific game. Typically, indie games are smaller than mainstream titles.[10] Indie game developers are generally not financially backed by video game publishers (who are risk-averse and prefer big-budget games)[11] and usually have little to no budget available.[5][6][8][12][13] Being independent, indie developers do not have controlling interests[7] or creative limitations[6][14][8] and do not require publisher approval[5] as mainstream game developers usually do.[15] Design decisions are thus also not limited by the allocated budget.[14] Furthermore, smaller team sizes increase individual involvement.[16]

Note that words like “generally” “typically” and “often” are not absolute terms, which is an important detail.

Furthermore:

In order to fund the game, developers can rely on starting a crowd-funding campaign, finding a publisher,[13][23][24] or building community support while in development.[25] Without publisher support, developers generally rely on Internet digital distribution options.[26] Most indie games do not make significant profit.[27]

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shear

Ok so then by that logic the only thing we can agree on is that we disagree what independent stand for but that doesn’t make either of us right or wrong.

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Space Captain Zor

lol, tell yourself whatever you have to to stay right in your own mind but what I’ve described is going to hold up as a currently accepted definition. So long as crowd funding is not legally an investment then what I’ve said has nothing to do with logic or opinion. It’s based on the current realities of the crowd funding business model.

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shear

Absolutely not, I would never consider CiG to be and Indie dev.

Bethesda has 180 people working on their games

CiG is twice as large.

Skyrim cost them 85 mil to make AND market.

SC budget is almost twice as big.

I can buy shares in public companies like Ubisoft and that money will be used to make games, and in the end I can make a profit too.

SC is raising money though pledges which makes them dependent on you, and in the end you might get nothing at all.

So yeah however you want to rationalize that they are an indie dev, which by the way has nothing to do with the fact that they are still 5 years down the production line with very little to show for it.

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Space Captain Zor

Then you simply refuse to accept what Indie means. That wiki page even cites an example where a big publisher can still have a role in an indie title:

Further, indie games do not need to be completely isolated from large publishers to be considered indie. For example, Bastion, developed by Supergiant Games, was published by Warner Bros. Interactive. Though Warner Bros. paid for the distribution and marketing of the title, Supergiant Games refused any funding for development costs, building the game on their own, and the resulting title is considered an indie game by the industry.

Point is there’s a lot of nuance and you can’t just say well it’s not indie because they have a bunch of money or a bunch of people. If all your argument is that “studio x is raising money for project y and that means it’s dependent and not indie” then your logic means there are no indie games except those that are completely self funded out of pocket, and that’s just not the case. The nuance is currently about who the studio is dependent on and for now the industry concerns that with big publishers and private financial investors–and so far crowd funding does not fit in either category.

And delays and progress have zero to do with anything that we are debating. Really not sure why you threw that in there.

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shear

I am just gonna quote you here for a second.

” however, indie games generally share certain characteristics. Indie games are developed by individuals, small teams, or small independent companies”

See how they used small three times? CiG is not small.

” companies that are often specifically formed for the development of one specific game. ”

They are making two games.

“Typically, indie games are smaller than mainstream titles.”

SC is neither small nor mainstream.

“usually have little to no budget available.”

155m and rising. That’s more than most AAA titles nowadays.

“Being independent, indie developers do not have controlling interests”

If tomorrow, somehow, everyone decided they wanted to pull their money out of CiG, it would be over for them.

It doesn’t matter where the money is coming from, it matters that they are depending on the money to work on the game. Indie games, in their nature, do not depend on outside funding but whatever the developer himself has in the pocket.

Notch had nothing when he started making Minecraft, and he didn’t depend on the sales of the game which were meager at the start to continue developing it. That was indie. This is not indie.

If you can’t accept that, then there is no reason to continue on this discussion.

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Space Captain Zor

You’re ignoring where “generally” and “typically” and “often” are not absolute terms.

How can you say they aren’t indie because “they are depending on the money” and then say “it doesn’t matter where it comes from” and then turn around and suggest that it actually does matter in YOUR argument if the funding comes from outside? That, my friend, is called a contradiction.

Again, you’re just refusing to understand what all indie can mean. Your view of it is too narrow. You’re excluding all kinds of indie games from being categorized as indie given your assertions. Large and small.

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shear

By “doesn’t matter where it comes from” I meant that if the money comes from an outside source, such as an investor or in this case a backer they are dependant on that investor or a backer.

You won’t admit that they are not an indie not because they aren’t but because they are just like all the rest then :D Here is a truth bomb for ya.

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Space Captain Zor

Dude, lol. I am trying, evidently unsuccessfully, to get you to see that the industry defines indie as one which would use any source of income aside from publisher or investor. What part of that doesn’t gel? Every indie project needs money obviously and not every indie developer can self fund, or wants to. Ashes of Creation not withstanding. As long as that money comes from anywhere but traditional Publisher or private investor then they are considered indie. Despite how much money they get or how big their team is. It’s that frakking simple.

Backer money is NOT investing inso far as the current legal landscape. Crowd funding is also not the same as investment crowdfunding, which is its own thing.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:” if you have 300 people and 155m budget that comes from crowdfunding, you are indie, but if you have 300 people and some investors”

You got the point. Indie game = An independent video game (commonly referred to as an indie game) is a video game that is created without the financial support of a publisher. Indie games often focus on innovation and rely on digital distribution.

So you are wrong Shear. As you say several time, every opinion have to be respected. Correct.
By now, do you start to see the point about importance of background, experience and knowledge to evaluate the quality or substance (can you trust) of an opinion from a specific person? When I say the other guy is incompetent….

When I read comment asserting something which are wrong, false, not accurrate…. because they are.

Have you make the link now Shear?

Reader
shear

Nonsense!
Indie dev
“Independent video game development is the video game development process of creating indie games; these are video games, commonly created by individual or small teams of video game developers and usually without significant financial support of a video game publisher or other outside source.”

Definition straight out of first google search, you can’t redefine a term to suit your agenda.

They aren’t small and they have significant backing from crowd funding, any real indie dev would cringe at the thought of being compared to a juggernaut that is CiG.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:” you can’t redefine a term to suit your agenda.”

I have no agenda and redefine nothing. They were small and still are. They are not a Publishers by any means, both in terms of product or company size.
You do not agree?
Fine we hence have two different opinion on this subject. Readers may follow your reading or mine or whatever they want.

Reader
shear

They aren’t small man, 350+ people and 155m isn’t small. Minecraft was small.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Fine. they are not small based on scale of Shear. They are not indie based on Shear. We got it and Readers will sort it out… or not.

Reader
shear

Not based on me, I didn’t make this up. I am just pointing it out.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”the increased scope was fully funded to the tune of $65M back in Nov 2014. ”

Again Lies DS… You said yourself that increase of scope was going to costs 150M$… now you say it was funded with 65M$….

Quote DS: “That’s why when these guys use that as an excuse”

Not an excuse, not an opinion… . You said it yourself in another post 4 hours ago… :)

“That’s the third time you’ve posted the same link to the same poll, disregarding points raised that the poll data doesn’t show any consensus or agreement in any of the options, since not even a simple majority agrees on any one option despite each participant being allowed to select 3 options. Members of the active SC community were given 3 votes each and still failed to put any of the options above 40% support, which suggests that there is no majority support from the community for any of the expansion options.
If anything, giving people 3 choices each instead of 1 should have made it easier for any one option to hit 50%, but that still didn’t happen. All this shows is that CIG polled the community and then promptly disregarded the results, opting to proceed with their own plan instead, and certainly doesn’t support your assertion that the changes were voted and agreed upon by the community.”

Reader
Joe Blobers

DS you ranting about the pool have no sense as you contredict yourself right in this comment section already.

On top of that, Backers complain so loudly since this pool date… since mid 2014 they literaly throw 120M$ right in CR’s face!

I know a few CEO, creator, author that would love to be proven wrong that way!

Those M$ are called pledges, available to make a game envision by CR and supported by backers. Ships have always been the single main source of pledges so your rant about store being open is baseless.. as usual.

Nov. 2012 end of Kickstarter:  goal was 2M$.  They got 6M$…
2012: 7M$
2013: 35M$
2014: 68M$
2015: 104M$
2016: 140M$
2017: 155M$  (July)

Reader
shear

They had nothing in 2014 that’s why they ran the poll not because they wanted to increase the scope. They simply had nothing.

AI is still not done to this day, what kind of a single player experience was it going to be without that.

Flight mechanics were, meh, flying turrets. They ended up changing them.

They didn’t have all that many different ships either. They still don’t have all that many locations in 2.6.

All I am trying to say is that 2.6 would have been a lot bigger than it currently is if they had anything of substance back in 2014, which they didn’t

I am well educated in this man I don’t just say so. Don’t misunderstand my scepticism for hate though, I do not hate CiG, I am just not gobbling up any BS they are trying to sell me.

Reader
primal

they could of gotten squadron out in 2 years. all they really needed was AI for the ships building in as cryengine has FPS AI built in. might not be the best in the world but its there. they were also not going to have player controlled turrets that you could sit in or any of that. all that started when foundry 42 was building a mining drone and they thought to themselves they want get in that, then that lead to wanting to get in the turrets and stuff to which means you need to make more and more complex AI to handle all that stuff and the functionality to get in and use it. a player wants get in it fine, what if an NPC gets in it.

so it snowballed, thats why it took longer and longer. SQ42 and even the PU would of been vastly simpler in graphics, tech, gameplay size. i doubt it would be seamless as it is now, theyd have to have masked loading screen to enter a new “level” . its just vastly bigger now than it was going to be back then in tech terms. it would likely still be just as good though to

Reader
Joe Blobers

Shear declaring to not hate something does not excuse rewriting story under the hood of opinion.

I guess you call opinion, Quote “They had nothing in 2014 that’s why they ran the poll not because they wanted to increase the scope. They simply had nothing.”?

Facts over speculation: Backers did vote for scope change. period. This is not an opinion but fact

You talk about Ai, turret, many ships, or whatever else you think was supposed to be in 2.6… just to back an opinion they had nothing in 2014… So you mean between Nov.2012 and 2014, CIG did what? Counting stars in the sky? Playing mahjong?

No indeed they were developping game engine, assets, pipelines all partly seen through a video presentation with Arena Commander available on June 2014.
I can recognize that it is hard see all efforts done as many things are not necessarely visible but not seing everything does not things disapear from where they are visible…

Look at what guys at Hellion are doing. With not huge ressource you can make many 3D assets with metal textures, quick interior with basic functionality and laser light doing Pew-Pew sounds. Problem, this is not really a breath holding experience… We could have got something servicable in 2014 or if you prefer 2015 as all development do have “delay” but we switched for the best, not the worst.

You want to keep a certain skepticism about what CIG is saying? Fine.
Schedule reports for 3.0 made of more than 41 screen pages are real. End of August even with a few weeks delay, is a tangible proof that we are going into the right direction. My opinion.

We will have plenty of review at this time, may be you may come back and share your own experience?

Reader
shear

However, you want to rationalize this incredibly slow progress of their to sleep better at night :D

Few week delay, it’s been delayed 8 months already boy, it will be 11 by the time it’s out. :DD

Reader
Joe Blobers

Quote Shear”you want to rationalize this incredibly slow progress”

There is no slow progress. They started with a team of 12 and 6M$, game engine to be rewrite and so on.
I rationalize the fact you compare EA with a thousand dev + 155 m$ budget + tools/engine fully uptodate at day one but still taking 4 or 5 years to deliver… versus SC development.
Being slow means nothing if you don’t take all factors.

Look at the Internaional Space Station. It moves relatively slowly when you look at it… but his real speed is close to 36.000 Km per hour. Factors man… factors.

Reader
shear

They promised a game in 2 years with 12 people and less than 6 million they didn’t deliver, fact. You can’t use that as an argument, you can’t say they only had 12 people and 6 million.

6 million is more than they asked for, and they still couldn’t deliver.
12 people is what they had and drew their estimation that it’s going o take them 2 years.

The fact that they had 12 people and 6 mil is not a defence for them they knew what they had and they couldn’t deliver with that. Why promise a game in two years if you have no team to build the game?

You are grasping at straws.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:”They promised a game in 2 years with 12 people and less than 6 million they didn’t deliver, fact.”

What you call facts is what I call propagating troncated information.

You said in one of your post that, quote: “I am well educated in this [numbers and CIG situation] ”

So that mean you are providing troncated information on purposes as you pretend to know the facts, be educated about the past initial and new scope and read others opinion?

Hence your opinion is based on misleading others…. or extreme misunderstanding of basic knowledge about goal of crowfunded project and game development at large.

CIG never intented to develop only with 12 people and 6M$. The opposite was stated from the beginning. Also, crowfunding projects, including SC, are launch to demonstrate the interest of this project toward an undetermined number of people and help estimate the interest. Then the project is either toally funded or more private investors can join the club shareholders, backers or a mix of both.

Also your last comment, quote: Why promise a game in two years if you have no team to build the game?

Again total misleading from you as facts do prove they were not 12 in 2014 and Arena Commander was already delivered in June. Arena Commander= Wing Commander ships fight part

Employees count:
2013:  48       (Austin: 34 –  LA: 14)
2014: 161      (Austin: 55 –  LA: 38 –  Manchester: 68)

It starts to be clear in this article comments section that you are attenpting either some kind of trolling and/or your understanding of fact definition is suffering serious lack.

You are grasping at straws shadow Shear.

Reader
shear

Why did CR promise you a game in two years if he didn’t have a team to build it?

Reader
Joe Blobers

Quote:”Why did CR promise you a game in two years if he didn’t have a team to build it?”

You missed it in my previous comment anwsering this precise point:
Again total misleading from you as facts do prove they were not 12 in 2014 (translate= they did build the team to the purpose of delivering…) and Arena Commander was already delivered in June. Arena Commander= Wing Commander ships fight part

Employees count:
2013: 48 (Austin: 34 – LA: 14)
2014: 161 (Austin: 55 – LA: 38 – Manchester: 68)

Reader
shear

Yeah exactly they had more than 12 people by 2014 and they still didn’t deliver SQ42. So you need to stop bringing up the whole “oh they only had 12 people”

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Joe Blobers

Quote:”So you need to stop bringing up the whole “oh they only had 12 people””

Shear I stop when I decide to stop. About this precise question I have nothing to add as I already answer twice and you keep evading the factual numbers and connection they make with your point.

This is really basic information, no need to twist thigs. Yous till do not get it? Okay I will live with that. You left in one of your post that I tried to convert you… I try nothing but provide educated answer based on facts and numbers.

So readers are now aware you are expecting another answer I won’t provide. Good luck :)

Reader
shear

So salty :D

Godnaz
Reader
Godnaz

• We’re still looking at end of 2017 Alpha v3.0.
• Squadron 42 release / beginning of closed beta at the end of 2018 or beginning of 2019.
• 2020 official release.

I said that here on Massively around nine weeks ago when the first ‘scheduled’ setback in the schedule report was announced. Anyone who became more optimistic and is angry about it now was not being realistic. And while I don’t like Derek Smart, he expressed from the beginning that even if they made the tech possible, it would not be deliverable in the time frames proposed. Chris Roberts was propitious, has lied about content release time frames well beyond the scope change to secure funding. To this point he has become more of a fabulist promoter of Star Citizen when talking publicly about it and backers have learned that only the schedule report can be trusted. Meanwhile CIG has to do damage control behind him. They have known that anything sooner was too optimistic.

The maligners aside, because who gives a flying flip what they think, those dates I quoted above will be hard pressed and I don’t think they will make even that. We’ll have a finished product, it be good. It just won’t be when Chris Roberts or Derek Smart have said it would be.

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dsmart

The maligners aside, because who gives a flying flip what they think, those dates I quoted above will be hard pressed and I don’t think they will make even that. We’ll have a finished product, it be good. It just won’t be when Chris Roberts or Derek Smart have said it would be.

There will never – ever – be a “game” coming from this. And when it all collapses and CIG can no longer pay the $150K+ of AWS costs, since the game is online only, backers will be left with a dud they can no longer play, as there is no off-line play component, nor peer-to-peer multiplayer.

My opinion remains the same. This game will never get made. It’s been a cash grab that’s made Chris, his family and friends, rich off backer money. He hasn’t “saved PC gaming”. All he’s saved is ill-gotten gains from trusting backers who just wanted a game.

Reader
shear

The thing is that CR can keep this game in development forever. He doesn’t actually have to say “the development has stopped”.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:”The thing is that CR can keep this game in development forever. He doesn’t actually have to say “the development has stopped”.”

Say the guy that feel obligated to shoot several times “I am not an hater” …. It was a good move because out of yours 22 different posts, it is hard to remotely guess it.

Continue to give huge to a guy who proved to be an incompetent, shooting lies days after days and more or less copy/paste his wording and “facts”. Clearly your choose the individual who match the best your meaning of none anti-SC…

Birds of a feather flock together It is so visible man :)

Reader
shear

I don’t hate SC, I don’t want it to fail, but I do find the SC development hell hilarious, and how people just give them a pass for just about any BS they do.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:“people just give them a pass for just about any BS they do.”
That’s not correct. Why do you think CIG did communicated through two differents devs the past few days? This is one thing to express something, this is another to stay in the same negative loop. I suggest you to stay awau of such behavior, it won’t bring you nowhere… unless this is exactly where you want to go.

Quote Shear:“I don’t hate SC, I don’t want it to fail”
Personaly, if I want a project to get to a (good) end, I do not convince myself and even less others, to seek for a refund as you did several times in others posts. But we probably do not have the same idea of supporting a project….

Reader
shear

I am not convincing anyone, in my opinion, if someone is losing faith they should pull out, that’s all I am saying, ultimately it isn’t my money and I do not care if they do.
But if they want to, they should.

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Joe Blobers

Quote:”But if they want to, they should.”

Who else said the opposite… as well if they want to join and pledges for 200K$ in three days. Faith work in both direction man :)

So about:”I am not convincing anyone, in my opinion,” When I give my opinion, you translate it in “you try to convert me” and when you write “Get a refund” this is not trying to convince someone else… Double standard to me.

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shear

Yeah it does, but if someone was to say that they are investing 200k into SC I wouldn’t tell them not to do it, I also wouldn’t attack the person who is telling them not to do it, but you instantly attacked me because I said that they should get a refund if they are not happy anymore.

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”CIG can no longer pay the $150K+ of AWS costs, ”

Another number created from dice rolls by DS :)

Daily pledge on average is 46K$…. During the last three days of that new little “drama” the pledges jumped to 70K per day…. A tragedy.. the end!

((Edited by mod.))

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Zander – well put. This is my greatest problem, feel like I’m being deceived. I wish the product the best of luck.

Reader
Sally Bowls

My biggest worry is not that CR is deceiving me; it is that CR is deceiving CR.
Peter Principle: the selection of a candidate for a position is based on the candidate’s performance in their current role, rather than on abilities relevant to the intended role. Thus, employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively, and “managers rise to the level of their incompetence.”

IMO, without facts, I think that CR was/is a good/skilled/brilliant designer. IMO, he is trying to make a great product. I am less clear at his experience at managing large projects and companies. It is good to have stirring and uplifting PR. The danger is if the executives start to completely believe it or think their project plan is immune to the realities all the other project plans labor under.

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Joe Blobers

Sally your point is good and apply to any project.

CR is not the new kid on the block and he gave most of the Production to his brother Erin, who is definitively great at it, not counting the talented others guys and girls.

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Sally, true, given how a prior project had to be taken from him. Would hope he has learned from that situation.

The Peter Principle is not only common, it is a struggle for the person in question. There is no worse feeling than being over your head at work.

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Oleg Chebeneev

Most SC fans developed tolerance to delays. Afterall they released flying combat missions, hangars, arena commander. So eventually 3.0 comes too. And then 4.0 which is basically PU launch. To be SC fan is to be patient. And haters gonna hate

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Rolan Storm

…and horses gonna horse. Истину глаголишь, Олег.

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Michael18

How are they going to do the cities on planets? Has there ever been some info on cities since they started with the seamless procedural planet tech?

(sorry for off topic ;)

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Joe Blobers

They said recently that the R&D test on PG cities were progressing well. As mentioned by Primal, PG cities won’t be accessible (by ship, vehicule of feet). Only specific zone, like Area 18, could be handcrafted to allow manual or semi-automatic landing, allowing to access area equal to what we have today in Stanton station, with shops and Bar.

Current PG tech for planet allowing seamless approach, there are no reasons to believe it won’t be technically possible to do the same for cities, with fly zone interdiction at certain distances/altitudes. Advantage of such PG cities is that you need to create only 3 D volume and textures, no need to flesh out internal building details.

You can have a drop at Area 18 and see by yourself.

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primal

there R+Ding to see whats the best way. you wont be able to go any where you want in the city obviously cus it’s to much work but as long as it look slike a thriving city thats all that counts

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Michael18

having areas blocked off would be ok, I just hope they can make it work without loadscreens when entering the accessible areas. that would be awesome.

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primal

there wont be any loading screens, dont have to worry about that

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Fervor Bliss

OH good. The last thing i wanted to worry about is a “Star Citizen surpirse lauch”. LOL

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Sally Bowls

I hate to be one of those annoying grammar Nazis, but “Star Citizen surprise launch” is bad grammar since it contains a redundant word, surprise. Any SC launch will be a surprise, so you don’t need that word. :-)

cmdr_cotic
Reader
cmdr_cotic

“Meltdown” wouldn’t be an unfair word, but something tells me we’ll be right back here on repeat in another two weeks.

This made me laugh but it’s totally true, following Star Citizen is like being on an emotional rollercoaster, one day everyone is oohing and ahhing over the latest shiny reveals, the next they’re tearing their hair out in frustration and disappointment and fighting their own community. Has there ever been anything quite like it?

Reader
Armsbend

The current white house.

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

cmdr – No, because fans have never had this type of financial commitment to a game. In the past, when a game was delayed, we didn’t have that 155 million hanging over our heads.

Reader
Lethality

That has nothing to do with it… the per-backer spend is right in line with other crowdfunding games. I promise you I didn’t fund the entire $155m.

Backers have the same financial commitment to this game as they have to any game.

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Lethality – it is the total that people see man. Why be so difficult? Aren’t you tired of defending lost causes and justifying these issues?

Reader
Lethality

But you said “fans never had this type of financial commitment”.

“Fans” are not a unit, or a company. They are individuals, each with no more commitment than any other. Each risks no more than they have in previous purchases – even on finished games they bought and were terrible.

No one has $155m hanging over their head. They had $45 or $120 or whatever.

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Lethality – last time I checked, retail games didn’t offer $700 ships or 10K club bars in the past. Sure does seem tame versus a box+sub model.

If you don’t think the 1000+ donors don’t have more at stake, guess money is just credit to you.

Reader
Darkwalker75 .

Actually other games have offered things similar to the 10k club you talk about in SC.

Star Trek online has something like that, and I seen other games with such areas where you have to pay to get access,.

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

75 – right and those games would receive the same flack if $155 million was attached.

There has never been anything like this in gaming.

Reader
shear

“Give me 10k I’ll let you into this room” is it just me or does that sound absolutely bonkers. :D

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Brother Maynard

It’s not just you – it is bonkers.

And it works…

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shear

Imagin how nice the world would be if people funded real world issues with so much ferocity. 155m for say cancer research would do quite a bit I bet.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:”155m for say cancer research would do quite a bit I bet.”

So true. As well as the 600M$ of WOW subscription of ten’s billions gathered every single year, just for EA, UB and Blizz,

Where do we vote for? :)

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shear

Those companies do a lot of good regardless how bad they may seem. Every big corporation spends money on charities nowadays it’s part of business ethics and corporate responsibility to keep up appearances.

What do they have to do with what I said anyway?

I am talking about random people investing in a game, which is just that, a game. I didn’t say anything about CiG. I didn’t say that CiG has to do it. Nobody has to do it, I was just making a point that there are so many better causes to invest money in. It was just an observation. Just a fun fact. :D

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Joe Blobers

… And I agreed with you, making observation about others comparble companies in the same industry and asking where I could agree more with an official vote.

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Brother Maynard

True. I remember in Rift there was this loyalty point system, which was essentially the same thing as this 10k club, only it gave you character titles or special portraits, instead of a VIP club. You accumulated loyalty points by store purchases.

But still, even before they introduced yet another round of loyalty tiers, you needed like 4-5k of real cash to get the top tier reward. I have no idea how much it would cost now with 2 or 3 new tiers added…

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primal

im not going lie, i feel pretty pissed off with it but have to keep the end goal in sight. alpha 3 is a pretty massive change compared to 2.6 and all before it so all the systems have to work properly and it is forming the basis of the world we’ll be travelling around in so you have to expect these things to happen.

keep the end goal in sight and all will be well

Xijit
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Xijit

Need to rename this game “Snake Oil Online.”

Reader
A Dad Supreme

“And this week’s production schedule report suggests it’ll be even further delayed.”
=========
“In the meantime, can we here at CIG interest you in several new concept ships and vehicles to purchase?

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Lethality

They’re a company with 400 employees in need of revenue like any other. What do you suggest they do?

But, feel free to make your witty comment here and go punch in tomorrow for work feeling all smug. You’re winning.

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Like any other business, lay off people or not spend as much?

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Lethality

Why? A business capable of continued revenue doesn’t have to lay off. And CIG is capable of generating revenue.

In your mind, they should slow down production but make sure to speed it up at the same time. Got it.

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shear

“CIG is capable of generating revenue.”

Seems to me that that’s all they are capable of doing. :DD

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Darkwalker75 .

This suggestion is not very thought trough.
If they do that they would have to slow down production., and it would not make the existing delays go away.
More likely than not they would become at least become longer, possibly also more frequent..

People are already going ape over a minor delay, how do you think people would react if they did this resulting increasing in delays, how would you react?

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Darkwalker – I guess someone is right about them running out of money.

Reader
Joe Blobers

Estranged, this “someone” claimed that prophecy of Doom every quarter since 3 years… This “someone” is incompetent and is looking to creating such posts because obfuscation, lies repeated endlessly become a “Source” for those not attached to dig in a bit.

You can be sure that this “someone” will repeat it during the next 6 quarter till the end of 2018 and when the inevitable release of SQ42 Chapter 1 and patch will have been done or anounced, he will then switch to something else to continue to be visible.

Those waiting to join release of patch 3.0 or SQ42 do not give a sh… about what you, me or the clown are saying

They will get informed by friends co-workers, web site or just ATV’s and will join or not join, based on their feeling about gameplay or whatever they are looking for.

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Darkwalker75 .

They could only be right about them running out of money of that were actually happening.
I have yet to see any of the people claiming that show so much as an inkling of proof to back up those claims.

In fact every time I see someone asked to prove it, they either ignore it, deflects it or change the subject to avoid answering.

Do you really think that they would be able to get a loan if they were in fact running out of money as some claim?

If I were running a bank I would certainly not give out a loan to someone if they where in the dire financial straits that some unfounded claims around here state.

But you are changing the subject here, and you didn’t answer my question.

You already seen how people react with the current delay announcement of a few days to a couple weeks.
How do you think people would react if they were to lay off people al you suggest and have to delay things eve more as a result?

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shear

How many people work for CiG? Anyone can do some rough estimations to see whether they are gaining or losing money.

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Joe Blobers

Shear you should ask the guy you seems to appreciate so much.

He knows a lot, have anon source and exclusive information from the “game industry”.

As per him… do not repeat it please… but CIG have goes bankruptcy already three years ago… :)

Keep it for you! backers are not yet aware…. nor the +400 employees and management :)

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shear

Who’s this guy you’re talking about?

I am a big boy who can make my own opinions, and it’s important to remember that’s all it is opinions, you don’t have to like them or hate them, I am entitled to them regardless.

How many people work for CiG?

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Wimpy?

1-wimpy.gif
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Geo Kavu

Sums up CIG in two sentences.

Reader
dsmart

View post on imgur.com

My latest article on this fiasco and why it’s the final march to the end.

Reader
Simon Morris

Derek,

I have just checked out your LOD website for the first time. I come from knowing nothing about you or your history as a developer, and was really curious after your incessant criticism of Star Citizen and basically I just wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and check out the development of your current title “Line of Defense”.

So….err….yeah, watched the LOD trailer and just wanted to state – Are you having an ACTUAL laugh?.
I visited your (dated and badly designed) website, and also watched the (quite frankly) embarrassingly amateurish trailer of what looks like a (bad) game from the 90’s.
(Btw; I can recommend a good college or two that teaches about the basics of realistic keyframed animation, the weighting of bipedal walk and run cycles and realistic falls if it would help your project). It seems like you need help, serious help with your development because the quality of that work, well, it looks like a college project. You cannot be serious about releasing something like that… surely?.

I don’t even know where to begin listing everything that I find so uninspired (conceptually) and (technically) amateurish about the trailer I have just watched, so I’ll just say;

FFS Derek change the record and get back to work on your own game!“.#
You have got a LOT of work to do if you want your own game to be (at the very least) a competent release.

You seem to spend so much of your time criticising Star Citizen, quite frankly to the point of obsession, it appears you have lost perspective on your own “talent”.

Get help!.

Reader
Dom Claur

That link provide another angle why this individual behave the way he does, as well as interesting data.

Reader
Darkwalker75 .

Since you as you say know nothing about the man, I’ll fill in some blanks.

He has had a grudge against Roberts since the days of Wing Commander.
From what I heard he apparently accused Roberts of copyright infringement on his game (Battlecruiser 3000) when the games were nothing alike.

Every time he comes here he posts a link to hos blog where he posts massive FUD rants about the development of SC.
Its like an obsession for him.

Its not the first time he does something like this to a developer.
He actually did it to another developer once and at that time actually succeeded to getting the lead developer fired and himself hired in his place.
The result was the death of the game, not sure if it was ever released and if it was it was a mess like his other games.

He does not take criticism, at all.
Say anything bad, no matter how constructive and polite you are, about his game or himself and he will block/ban you claiming you are trolling.

He has even proclaimed himself the internet Warlord.

This are just the tip of the iceberg, a little search on the web will reveal a lot more.

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Utakata

It’s interesting to note that he’s gotten 10 /upvotes as of posting this. Which means folks are really starting to believe his stuff. Despite the fact it is well known that he has personal grudge match against CiG. And he has provided no compelling and convincing antidote that he would do any better as developer of this game or its funding model. This is how populism gets its start.

necropsie
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necropsie

Have you ever wondered, maybe, just maybe, you and other SC fans choose not to believe the guy because that will mean you will accept that you are basically being robbed for the last couple years? How about the fact that defending a game (and a producer) this much shows you like a bunch of cult members?

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Utakata

I don’t support this game nor do I intend to play when it’s “released”. It’s not my thing. However, I do understand it’s other players’ thing…and so I wish it the best of success for them. Thus, I don’t suffer the claims of noted trolls who have a hard on against this game lightly and prattle on how awful it is.

Furthermore, I cannot vouch or endorse CiG’s seemingly convoluted time schedule for this game, other than fact if Roberts took this game through the normal channel of funding, we wouldn’t likely be hearing all the apparent waffling and indecisions which would all likely be locked behind NDA’s. Making me wonder if MMO’s like WoW for example, went through the same thing, but due to its funding NDA we never heard a thing. So yeah, some perspective is needed here.

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Joe Blobers

Quote necropsie “Have you ever wondered, maybe, just maybe, you and other SC fans choose not to believe the guy”

I did not wonder Necropie because question about choice (buy or not, trust or not) I ask it to myself for every action in my life.

Regarding SC project managed by CR, I did not changed my original answer: This project is under control and coming to fruition.

((Edited by mod.))

Thanks for caring but backers are not necessarily a mass of totally blind idiot unable to see, read, appreciate or not and take wise decision.

Have you ever wondered necropsie, maybe, just maybe, you and other SC haters or dissenters choose to believe the wrong guy? :)

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shear

Every considers that he got upvoted because it was funny? Does it have to be because people are starting to believe him? I found it funny. I’ll believe him when and if his post before Gamescom is gonna have any substance behind it. Gunna be a good read. :D
Also, what does his game have to do with SC? I don’t care about his game.

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Utakata

While that may be plausible, the link to Mr. Smarts’ article is clearly posted under said meme. Therefor, it’s quite likely his post got upvoted because many are in agreement with his position. And besides, I always maintain that you are what you /upvote for. :)

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shear

So if I upvote for example a joke that is of a “racial” nature, I am a racist?

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Utakata

Err…yep. /shrug

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dsmart

As much as you would like that to be true, none of it is true, nor supported by facts, let alone reality. I know I sound like a broken record, but we have to keep reminding you people.

And it isn’t, never was, and never will be a “Derek Smart vs Chris Roberts” issue. You guys make it about that because that’s your narrative used to justify the nonsense you are spouting and spreading.

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”… never was aDerek Smart vs Chris Roberts issue”

You are somehow true. This is not only about you vs CR since 20 decades, supported by facts and reality.

This is also about:!
– incompetency vs competency (proven multiple times in both cases),
– about obsessive-compulsive behavior with an ego of inordinate number, infected by a delusional disorder of cosmic size.

All proven reality in one or several of your daily, weekly and monthly ranting about CR and SC Community.

I pick one of them, a technical one because you are an expert right?
Proven false already by Christopher Livingston who did went through a none script live session of an early SC 3.0 build just a few weeks ago.

You wrote on March 14th, you DS, nobody else:

“seamless planetary landing” is a feature “decades away”

You believe you can hide behind your lies, like a child believe nobody see him if he close his eyes…? that does not work DS :)

Note: oh and thanks anyway to helped us all reach 121 comments that will keep the Star Citizen name in the Popular Comment Threads for the coming weeks. More new backers and pledges :)

“I know I sound like a broken record, but we have to keep reminding you people”.
….
See that’s where you are going wrong Derek, you don’t, you really don’t. You’ve made your position very clear, repeatedly, but now it’s getting a little weird, like you’ve got an unhealthy obsession with the man and his project. I can’t even imagine the 7th hell of bitter obsession you appear to have worked yourself into, but ffs do yourself a solid favour and let.it.go.
Seriously, it might be worth dedicating some of your time otherwise spent vindictively obsessing about Star Citizen – to improving your own game “line of defence”.
Surely your creative efforts would be better off directed towards your own project rather than trying to damage someone elses?.

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dsmart

“See that’s where you are going wrong Derek, you don’t, you really don’t.”

Said a guy engaged in the same discussion on the Internet. Yeah OK, judge me. As I said before, it makes no difference to me. People don’t define me. I know who I am.

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Patreon Donor
Schlag Sweetleaf

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”People don’t define me. I know who I am.”

CR also know who he is but you judge him every single day… I know also who I am… and we know who you are… :)

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shear

Do you honestly think that somebody who has a highly critical view of SC will in any way damage it? Are you really saying that the project of 155m is so fragile that it will break if DM will voice his opinion? Is it really what this all comes down to?

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dsmart

“Do you honestly think that somebody who has a highly critical view of SC will in any way damage it? Are you really saying that the project of 155m is so fragile that it will break if DM will voice his opinion? Is it really what this all comes down to?”

Yes, that’s their position. And no, it doesn’t make any sense.

And hours ago, this post from a guy who used to be on Usenet from back in the day, popped up. It encapsulates all the nonsense they keep spreading, and trying to shoe horn into their tainted narrative.

Instead of holding Chris Roberts accountable for the train wreck that is now Star Citizen, they are focused on attacking me. Because, you know, that’s a very good plan.

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shear

You got a settlement out of Take Two? That’s pretty cool. I’m a law student so it interesting that a big company like that weren’t bending you backwards and just folded.

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dsmart

You got a settlement out of Take Two? That’s pretty cool. I’m a law student so it interesting that a big company like that weren’t bending you backwards and just folded.

Yeah. And it was just before they went public, and my game was one of those that generated enough money to make it happen (see SEC filing). So in a sense, you can say that I helped build what is now Take Two.

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Joe Blobers

Quote:”accountable for the train wreck ”

In your head only DS… like what you wrote on March 14th, you DS, nobody else, based on your vast competence that make you call a project you can’t handle “train wreck”:

“seamless planetary landing” is a feature “decades away”

No not at all. It’s my position that Derek Smart appears to have moved into a meme-like parody of criticism, of his initial complaints and of himself, and no I do not think anybody in the gaming community seriously listens to him re: this, and no, he does not affect the project with his ongoing obsession.
No, I was trying to give the man some constructive help, if anything with his mental health, because he appears totally unable to extricate himself from this spiralling obsession he has.

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Darkwalker75 .

I’m sorry to tell you, but trying to give that many any kind of help is a waste of time.

He will not listen no matter what you say, and is more likely to just twist what you say and try to turn in back on you.

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dsmart

No not at all. It’s my position that Derek Smart appears to have moved into a meme-like parody of criticism, of his initial complaints and of himself, and no I do not think anybody in the gaming community seriously listens to him re: this, and no, he does not affect the project with his ongoing obsession.
No, I was trying to give the man some constructive help, if anything with his mental health, because he appears totally unable to extricate himself from this spiralling obsession he has.

Yeah because you’re such an upstanding citizen, a pillar of the community, and one voted most likely to redeem others from their plight.

Get a grip. You’re nobody. You don’t matter.

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Joe Blobers

quote DS:”a pillar of the community”

So DS could you define yourself as a “Pillar of Incompetence” or just obsessed by CR enough to twitt, email, posts thousands of times during three consecutive years?

Just a genuine question from a Pillar Of Candor :)

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Simon Morris

Breaking News Derek: – You do not know me. At all in fact, therefore what you have just said makes no sense whatsoever.

I however, – (after a crash-course in Derek Smart from not knowing who you were this morning, and after looking at your links you posted, as well as links Massively readers have posted on your history with this obsession) – feel like I have a good measure of the kind of guy you are.

I genuinely pity you.
Get on with your own project Line of Defense!, and FFS get mental help with this unhealthy fixation you have of someone else’s project.

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shear

Can’t wait to read the post you’re going to write before Gamescom. Just to see how much of it was on point.

What I have noticed though is that people around here aren’t trying to discredit you on fact about SC but rather by personal attacks on you. I find that hilarious. :D

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dsmart

Can’t wait to read the post you’re going to write before Gamescom. Just to see how much of it was on point.

What I have noticed though is that people around here aren’t trying to discredit you on fact about SC but rather by personal attacks on you. I find that hilarious. :D

Yeah. And that’s why they keep failing. Attacking me isn’t going to make Star Citizen a good game, let alone a released game.

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”isn’t going to make Star Citizen a good game, let alone a released game.”

… let’s alone “seamless planetary landing is a feature decades away “? No because we are seeking for an expert about whether it is possible or not? May be we can ask CR if this is not implemented in SC 3.0 patch?… We will get 3.0 in the coming few weeks.

Let us have the surprise by ourselfs! Do not spoil Backers!

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Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:”What I have noticed though is that people around here aren’t trying to discredit you on fact about SC but rather by personal attacks on you. I find that hilarious”

Quite false indeed. It was and still proven endlessly…

Competence matter you know.
Would you let someone attempt a heart surgery on you just because he swear he is the best surgeon around?

Following this metaphore, DS is good at taking frog apart… and extrapolate from there to pretend to be an expert in advanced surgery… proven false of course, what a surprise really!

We do not really need to discredit him. He is proficient at it. But it is a moral duty to inform readers not aware of this indiviual behavior. Nothing more nothing less.

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shear

He’s not making SC, he’s giving his opinion on it, hence the surgeon you’re talking about isn’t performing the surgery, he’s merely giving his opinion to people, I don’t see any harm in it.

Then some nonsense about frogs or whatnot. :D

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dsmart

He’s not making SC, he’s giving his opinion on it, hence the surgeon you’re talking about isn’t performing the surgery, he’s merely giving his opinion to people, I don’t see any harm in it.

Of course the logic is nonsense. What they’re saying is that I shouldn’t have an opinion. Because, you know, that’s how life actually works whereby you should attack someone because you don’t like their opinions.

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Joe Blobers

Quote DS:”Of course the logic is nonsense.”

Wrong. There is a sense to logic. Everybody have an opinion. And ours opinion is that yours opinions are headed to hurt CR through the SC Community, using your traditional tactics of obfuscation and lies. Proven and Repeated several times in this very comments section.

Nobody attack you because you have an opinion, but we depicted why and how you are nefarious and incompetent to provide opinion not directed to hurt +700.000 backers.

This is not an attack DS, this is an opinion :)

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Joe Blobers

Dear Shear, when Kim Jong Un give his opinion about his concept of the world, I change TV channel. Because the guy is proven to be totally off ground and with a personal toxic agenda.

DS is, country leader apart, of the very same caliber but focus on CR. His Professional opinion does not matter because he is a proven incompetent. You can skeep the surgeon/frog metaphor at your leisure some other will capture it…

But how do you skeep the “seamless planetary landing is a feature decades away”?

DS = Lies, obfuscation, deceptive actions.. as usual

Twist it as you want. Words matter and everyone can clearly see what game you are playing, using his own word. “This is just an opinion”… despite facts proving his opinion can not be valued as a competent individual, someone he pretend to be.

It is an opinion from an incompetent individual. Opinion he can express through whatever Media he choose, because of the Free Internet Act. Fine.
So what?

And thanks as well to you. More comments… more visibility. Keep coming Shear :)

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shear

Change the channel man :D you don’t have to read what DS says.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Shear: “you don’t have to read what DS says.”

I don’t. Ever. But the guy is busy at scrambling others channel :)

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shear

So you’re replying to him without reading what he’s saying? That just seems like a horrible way to have a reasonable discussion.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:”So you’re replying to him without reading what he’s saying?”

Assumption your honor :)

I read what he say and I know also what he is thinking, repeated in this very comment section to Simon Morris (a very polit person by the way)… DS quote: “Get a grip. You’re nobody. You don’t matter”

There is no way you can have a discussion with him. He is right, CR is not is ennemy (a friend I guess as he sent thousands of twit, emails, posts in three years) and… “seamless planetary landing” is a feature “decades away”

DS = Lies, obfuscation, deceptive actions.. as usual

You can not debate with someone who is so deep in a spiral of deny. But it is a moral duty to inform people about who he is. So Do I.

Make search Shear… as you seems to be very involved all this section comments long, to depict him as “just a guy with an opinion”, waiting his soon ranting about Gamescom “for fun” and be so supportive to supposed unfair treatment.

Note: Thanks for helping this section reached 174 comments. That ensure at least two weeks of SC name visibility to readers passing by :)

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shear

“You can not debate with someone who is so deep in a spiral of deny. But it is a moral duty to inform people about who he is. So Do I.”

So I can’t have a discussion with you then because you seem to be very invested in SC success.

See I am not invested at all, I do not care if it comes out or not, If it does I’ll look at reviews and try it out if it doesn’t, oh well haven’t lost a dime. So I am as impartial to the whole thing as one can be.

But I do pride myself on one thing, intuition, that’s the reason I have not spent any money on it.

He is just a guy with an opinion, if you think he is more than that then he is winning.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:”oh well haven’t lost a dime. So I am as impartial to the whole thing as one can be. ”

You are impartial because you did not pay for something? really :)

As I said you seems to be very involved all this section comments long, to depict him as “just a guy with an opinion”, waiting his soon ranting about Gamescom “for fun” and be so supportive to supposed unfair treatment”… and now “… he is winning”

Keep giving him a huge as obviously you came here with this single objective :)

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shear

Yeah, I haven’t invested any of my money so I don’t care if it succeeds or doesn’t that seem logical to me.

It’s Sunday, I’m bored, got raided in Rust by a guy named Ahmed as ironic as that sounds so I’m here now, you want me to leave cause I’m not agreeing with you.

What I can’t be interested in what people opinions are?

Sounds like you’re just salty cause you can’t convert me.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Shear:”you want me to leave cause I’m not agreeing with you… Sounds like you’re just salty cause you can’t convert me”

Say the guy who suggested me few minutes ago to leave or more precisely, quote: “Change the channel man :D you don’t have to read what DS says.”

Thanks for the advise, I move at my leisure but there is one thing I never do. Let someone scramble my channel to distord the truth behind his “opinion” wall.
Truth is what is in accordance with fact or reality. Just to say I am talking about truth and not “believe”

And about converting someone… I expressed my opinion several times already, with precise argument and motivation. You can agree or disagree. At the end of the day I will sleep evenly well :)

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shear

“Dear Shear, when Kim Jong Un give his opinion about his concept of the world, I change TV channel. Because the guy is proven to be totally off ground and with a personal toxic agenda”

That’s why I said change the channel, I don’t care if you stay here or not. The truth is that the game is delayed again :D

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Joe Blobers

DS you mean… march 2015… 90 days top? Keep hating that keep you alive. Thanks for passing by :)

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Rolan Storm

Not everyone want SC to succeed, but posting this here ain’t smart, Derek.

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Patreon Donor
Schlag Sweetleaf

.

SMART POTATO.png
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Utakata

That must of been a pain to have cut all those pieces out from his tiny little avatar. o.O

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Patreon Donor
Schlag Sweetleaf

The image used at the start of Derek’s article was one I made for MO. Derek is excellent at citing sources,I thought it would have been professional to have mentioned Massively as the source of the gif.

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Utakata

He’s kinda like that other guy who posts his decrees from Twitter. He just doesn’t care about ethics or the facts…only that his point is heard. And sorry to hear that you didn’t get proper credit for that. :(

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Patreon Donor
Schlag Sweetleaf

Not for me,It’s for Massively.Not sure how all that works,but it would have been a polite gesture to cite MO as the gif source.

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Utakata

I am not sure it’s an obligation. But to my limited understanding of memes, this may fall under “Creative Commons”. To which it’s considered good etiquette to give credit the source of said meme if they know who the author is behind it (in a lot of cases, memes are generally produced anonymously). It is clear that Mr. Smart ripped your meme in question from this site, as I am unaware you had posted that anywhere else…especially on Mr. Smart’s blog.

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Patreon Donor
Schlag Sweetleaf

Interesting image you chose to headline your piece. Mi casa es su casa.

nvidia
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nvidia

Don’t flatter yourself, it’s never about you. You’re irrelevant now.

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Joe Blobers

Hey DS… you know what, when I saw the MOP article title popping out… I just kept the window open to see your post just to leave this first paragraph dedicated to your attention. My pleasure :)
Sorry if I am a bit late but contrary to you, I did not prepared a text for the inevitable weelky Prophecy of Doom :)

So here we are…This is the end…. that mean the all techs, team and already done works disapear tonight in the void. Backers prey yours Gods, call your relatives, friends and coworkers and spread the word:

“Brothers, Sisters.. you have to wait a couple days or weeks… Heads down penitent”

Repeat with me the words of the last Judgment:

Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life

Oh man… :) keep shooting your personal agenda against CR and SC Community that you want to burn them all as per your own words.

—————————–

That said, I have another comment directed for regular web users, who do express their doubt and frustation. All being human reactions based on own experience and expectation.
I also attached a picture demonstrating the level of “salt” versus date and remaining bugs (from Reddit):

This is very interesting has we can visualize human behavior toward frustration then making declarative statements of ultimatum.

Something that Publishers understood years ago. Play with those guys frustration sensibility, serve them the same regurgitated meal every year, because in 6 months or a year they will make again a claim for new stuff. They are “peasants”, consumers and they never learn. They double down. Keep make quick profit as long as they don’t wake up… Go BF7… go COD18… go “early access never finished working as designed”… (hey DS are you okay with that one? :)

Dear backers and web user, believe it or not, I am sincerely with you all. I would like to have SC in my hands, polished with 100 systems and years of exploration ahead right now!!

What I serve to DS is of course deeply satiric but the part which is not is “This is not the end” quite the opposite. CIG did feel the dissastifaction/frustration last Dec.
Since the beginning of year, they do provide much deeper ATV’s with insight rarely seen at this level of development.

We start to see “light” with author like Christopher Livingston with providing independant review, of what is 3.0. I noticed in his description of what looks like a reasonnably long mission, that no crash happend :)

In matter of no time we well get as well more reviews from Youtubers, web sites, MOP included of course.

Definitively the next 12 months are going to bring visible, tangible (testable) substance to SC.

This is as sure as we will see the sun rise again tomorrow and the day after….
As certain as DS is still an incompetent developer with a toxic agenda against SC backers, rushing right here to try to soil it. Strangely, I do not see anybody summoning him as he like to excuse himself.
Backers want to escape from Publishers hands… it is not to be grabbed by someone who follow an endless obsessive spiral proven to be self-destructive since decades. This is his fate, not ours.

We should never forget why we pledged for. Stay aware… and positive.
We do not pledged for a date.
This is ambitious, we shoot for the moon and soon we will walk on… them :)

Salt level.jpg
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Nathan Mooth

Haha. Don’t flatter yourself Derek. You’ve shot so many holes in your reputation already that nobody really cares what you think anymore. Star Citizen may fail, but nobody would think for a moment that it was your fault.

Estranged
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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

DS – I’m still blaming the Russians, but will keep you in mind! ;-)

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Rolan Storm

Gah! Why blame us again? We are pro-StarCitizen. *nod*nod*

Estranged
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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Rolan – no offense intended, have to use this meme before it dies!

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Rolan Storm

None taken, I read into it. Just playing along with the line. :)

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primal

DS likes to lie all the time anyway. Still waiting on the full page spread in New York times exposing SC, still waiting on the lawsuit in which he was crossing the T’s and dotting the i’s with last november and still waiting on his book probably about the failure of SC which hasnt actually failed yet

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Darkwalker75 .

You forgot his claim that he reported them to the FTC.
Or did you exclude it because it was proven false by someone contacting FTC about it?

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dsmart

((Deleted by mod. Nobody made it about you until you showed up unprovoked and dared them to. Literally trolling.))

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dsmart

((Deleted by mod. Nobody made it about you until you showed up unprovoked and dared them to. Literally trolling.))

Wait! Wot!? Seriously? OK then, fine.

palonto
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palonto

Well look who we have here. Hi Derek. Come to spread your FUD again? I thought you would be busy and all with Alganon in maintenance mode and Line of Defense Kicked of steam. Boy, that must have hurt.

Back on topic. You claimed to do the shit you do for the backers. But seeing you here saying that you are, well basically a troll (the hate comment and the comment about attention) means you are a man child that did not get his toy.

Grow up and work on your own game. Maybe you won’t be the laughing stock of the industry. yeah, you are. Or shall we ask the people who mater, like Ben Parry, who handed your ass to you, or we can ask any real developer about you.

Now go walk into a federal building, or get on the phone with the AG, or whatever you tell yourself to feel relevant.

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Maddin Robert
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Joe Blobers

Quote:”I LOVE the attention.”

You sum up all your pro life DS. Attention does not matter if you can’t use it to build something. From the start, you should have seek for respect.

About attention I suggest everybody interested to read a few articles on internet. There are very good professional. Here and extract of recommendation that sounds like a warning for anyone with such declared or assumed “addiction”:

” Thus, getting functional social attention is understandable. However, extreme attention seekers go to unhealthy lengths that are driven by emotional desperation, a response to early developmental trauma caused by neglect”

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primal

no cus i dont read anything you say cus its all hate hate hate. you “predicting” CIG delaying something is like predicting water is wet.

i dont have any hate towards you actually your just a delusional pathetic little man whose ego is far bigger than your skills and your just trying to be relevant except no one listens to you. if you put stuff in clear and concise versus going on a hate filled rage towards SC because they did something that you couldnt control and in your world they waged a war on you lmao, no one normal thinks like that, maybe you’d be taken more seriously

you do love the attention thats why you make up alot of lies to get attention. alot of people think just because someone hates on the game there part of your crew but in actual fact those people dont like you either they just simply dont like the game/how its being handled

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primal

so because alpha 3 got delayed again means it onwards to fail??? what happened to the summer 2015 release of LOD after the initial 2012 release lmao. yup thought so dude ever heard of the saying people in glass houses shouldnt be throwing stones

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Geo Kavu

Oh well, what’s new.. Let us know when something actually does get released for once.

Estranged
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Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

One reason I refused to continue to test patches was this need to re-download them, completely from scratch.

How is this possible? Have played several games in testing, on a meager budget, that have no such issue.

I’ve been waiting on 3.0 for this reason. When it finally drops, I’ll be sure the patcher is fixed, before downloading.

The Reddit poster in link #2 now has 1230 upvotes. The natives are restless, Chris.

Edit: 1283 and rising.

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Darkwalker75 .

How is this possible?

Because the “Delta Patcher” as its called is not ready yet.
I know its easy to sit here and compare it to other games and think its easy to do, but in reality its not that simple.
If it was so easy as some people think(generally speaking) then it would be released already.
No two games are alike, as such you cant just take something that works with one game and slap it onto another, it would be like taking the engine from one car brand and put it into another, it just would not fit.

These developers on a meager budget as you refer to, are likely using some kind of stock engine that allows them to use some kind of stock tool for updating/patching the game.
CIG on the other hand have so significantly changed the original code of the engine that they cant use the stock tools anymore, so they have to make new ones and that takes time.

I understand your frustration with downloading these big patches, its not fun to have to do.
So believe me when I say that CIG don’t want this anymore than you do, as it cost them money to host the files and when people download it, the bigger the file the more it cost.
So it is in everyone’s best interest to get the delta patch out as soon as possible, but releasing it before its ready clout potentially cause more harm than good.

I dont really know or understand much of it myself, but I hope this helps you understand a little better at least.

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Lethality

> How is this possible?

Because you don’t have a clue how any of this is done.

Estranged
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Estranged