Make My MMO: Star Citizen scrubs release windows from 3.0 schedule, Fig investors turn a profit (August 12, 2017)

This week in MMO crowdfunding, Star Citizen surprised backers by removing all “aim dates” from its weekly production schedule, which is intended to provide a roadmap toward the (very delayed) 3.0 alpha release. CIG instead provided two graphs it says will give a “more accurate look at where [it is] trending” – check those out down below. (Cheers, Cotic!)

In more meta news, Fig announced that a game promoted through its equity crowdfunding platform actually generated profit for investors, a first for the company. That game would be Kingdoms and Castles, which according to Polygon netted $1M in sales and consequently provided a 100% return to investors through Fig (double their money). It’s not an MMO, of course, but several MMORPGs have turned to this type of equity crowdfunding since it became legal last autumn, including Crowfall and Shroud of the Avatar.

Meanwhile, Albion Online continued suffering from extortionists’ DDOS attacks, we kicked off a month-long deep-dive into Shroud of the AvatarDual Universe scored a huge chunk o’ change in its run up to alpha, Pantheon published its monthly newsletter, and we got the details on the superhero MMO panel at PAX, which we’ll be attending in person (thanks, cyanpill!).

Read on for more on what’s up with MMO crowdfunding over the last week and the regular roundup of all the crowdfunded MMOs we’re following.

Star Citizen

Recent MMO crowdfunding news

Investors pour $3.7M into MMO sandbox Dual Universe - Dual Universe just snagged a positively massive cash injection. According to a press release posted today, private investors have poured $3.7 million in funding into the sci-fi sandbox MMORPG. That's…

Project Gorgon progress

Campaigns and crowdfunded MMOs we’re watching

3001SQ (Société des Mondes Virtuels) – Kickstarter unsuccessful. Work continues.
AdventureQuest 3D (Artix Entertainment) – Raised 368k; beta began Oct 2016.
Albion Online (Sandbox) – Launched July 2017.
Antraxx (Team Antraxx) – Kickstarter canceled.
Ascent: The Space Game (Fluffy Kitten Studios) – Successful KS. Fully launched 2016.
Ashes of Creation (Intrepid Studios) – Successful KS.
Broke Protocol (Cylinder) – Unsuccessful KS. In free early access.
Camelot Unchained
(City State) – Kickstarter successful; open donations/packages.
Caribbean Conquest (Invenio) – First KS canceled, second ended unsuccessfully.
Contested Space (Zon)
Crowfall (ArtCraft) – Kickstarter win, open packages, Indiegogo crowdfunding ongoing.
Chronicles of Elyria (Soulbound) – Kickstarter successful, open packages.
Citadel of Sorcery (MMO Magic, Inc.) – Open donations.
City of Titans (Missing Worlds Media) – Successful KS; launch planned for fall 2018.
Descent Underground (Descendent Studios) – Successful KS.
Divergence Online (Stained Glass Llama) – Three campaigns; now in KS early access.
Dogma: Eternal Night
(Prelude Games Factory): Kickstarter overdonor preorder packs.
Dragon of Legends (Thrive Games) – Successful Kickstarter.
Dual Universe (Novaquark) – Kickstarter funded, now has donor platform. Alpha delayed.
Eco (Strange Loop Games) – Funded, now in alpha.
Edengrad (Huckleberry Games) – Kickstarter funded; in early access.
Elite: Dangerous (Frontier Developments) – Funded and launched.
Empyrion Online (Eleon) – Kickstarter canceled; launched on Steam early access.
Epic Space (EpicSpace.net)
Ever, Jane (3 Turn Productions) – Now in open beta.
Global Adventures (SubaGames) – Kickstarter funded.
Gloria Victis (Black Eye Games) – Open donations, no end date; in early access.
Greed Monger (Greed Monger) – Abandoned, multiple times now.
Grim Dawn (Crate Entertainment) – Funded and launched.
Guns of Icarus (Muse) – Funded and launched.
Hero’s Song (Pixelmage) – KS canceled; Indiegogo. Canceled w/ refunds.
Infinity: Battlescape (I-Novae Studios)
HEX (HEX Entertainment) – Funded and launched.
Legends of Aria (Citadel Studios) – Kickstarted as Shards Online. Currently in alpha.
Life is Feudal (Bitbox): Indiegogo ended. Currently in beta.
LUX (Chimera) – Kickstarter canceled.
Maestros of the Anthymn (String Theory) – Kickstarter canceled.
Mekria (Infinity Online Studios) – Kickstarter canceled.
Midair (Archetype Studios) – Kickstarter successful.
Nebula Online (Mizar Games) Kickstarter canceled; launched in November.
Neo’s Land (NeoJac Entertainment) – Open donations, no end date.
Novus AEterno (Taitale Studios)
OrbusVR (Ad Alternum) – KS funded March 2017.
Overpower (Hydrant Games) – Kickstarter unfunded; heading to early access.
Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen (Visionary Realms) – Open donations, no end date.
Pathfinder Online (GoblinWorks) – Doom, mostly.
Planet Nomads (Craneballs) – Kickstarted, early access launched sans multiplayer.
Pixel Starships (SavySoda)
Project Gorgon (Elder Game) – Kickstarted in three tries + Indiegogo. In alpha.
Pumpkin Online (Monique) – Downgrading from MMORPG.
The Exiled (Fairytale Distillery) – fka Das Tal; 2015 KS unsuccesful. In Steam early access.
The Realm: Reawakened (Stephen Nichols) – Ongoing GoFundMe.
The Repopulation (Idea Fabrik) – Kickstarted twice by A&B. Back in alpha
ROKH (Darewise) – Kickstarter canceled; now in early access.
RUiN (Tarhead Studio) – Kickstarter successful.
The Stomping Land (Alex Fundora) – Abandoned.
Sacrament (Ferocity Unbound) – Kickstarter failed; Patreon ongoing.
Shadow’s Kiss (Clockwork Throne) – Ongoing Patreon.
Shroud of the Avatar (Portalarium) – Successful KS. Soft launch July 2016.
Star Citizen (Cloud Imperium) – Ongoing donations/packages.
TUG (Nerd Kingdom) – In middle of year-long revamp after funding surge.
Vigor Roads (NeuronHaze) – Kickstarter unsuccessful; early access planned for 2017.

Worlds Adrift

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168 Comments on "Make My MMO: Star Citizen scrubs release windows from 3.0 schedule, Fig investors turn a profit (August 12, 2017)"

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Ishia Rahman
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Ishia Rahman

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Blue touchpaper

About a year and a half ago I remember getting involved in discussions with backers of this game on this site who heatedly disagreed with me when I said that this game probably wouldn’t get a release before the early 2020’s .

We are now at the latter part of 2017 and they can’t even get alpha patch 3.0 out let alone a single player game like Squadron 42 .

Funnily enough those people seem to be very quiet in the forums . I think even the some of most vocal and loyal of the backers are starting to realize things are going wrong with the development of this game and that the finished product if it ever gets released may end up being scaled down considerably to the point it wont even come close to the original vision of the game .

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Joe Blobers

Quote Blue Touchpaper:”starting to realize things are going wrong ”

In your dream man :) You can pretend “they can’t even get alpha patch 3.0 out”… it is coming out in few weeks…not never. The next year and half till end of 2018 will be the most intense for backers, because most major patch are going to be released, including not only planets and NPC’s but also various jobs gameplay..

CIG do have now uptodate game engine, pipelines and talented team. If you think Denis Crow, Former Grand Theft Auto V and World of Warcraft producer, join Star Citizen because it does not trust the future of CIG…

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zeko_rena

Early 2020’s is still quite a long way off yet.
I think something most people don’t seem to understand is the main TECH in the game is the hardest part.

For example once all the planet / moon tech is completed and stable, adding more planets and moons is going to be easy going forward, getting all the systems to make it possible is the hard part.

Once a lot of these major systems are built and in game, adding content that works with those systems should be a lot easier and a lot quicker.

Don’t get me wrong I still think the project has a long way to go that is for sure, and I really do hope it launches at least with major game-play elements and five to ten systems prior to early 2020’s

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DoomSayer

I am always surprised to find so many people who say they hate the game and the company but read every article posted and just can’t stop themselves from posting about it. Why not go post about games you actually like? Why waste your time here?

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Blue touchpaper

Maybe because of all the money invested in this game and the fact that if you make a comment about it that they don’t like the backers are all over you .

It does set your back up against this project to some degree .

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Joe Blobers

Why do you mean Blue Touchpaper by “all over you”?
You make a comment… others can’t reply? or is it disturbing your prophecies… :)

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zeko_rena

Sometimes I even wonder why I bother coming to this website anymore (not because of the articles but the same old people shit posting)

I must be the only human being in the universe that when they see an article about a game I don’t like I skip it and move onto the next.

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mike foster

You’re probably what people would call the quiet majority. Most people probably do exactly what you do. It’s the same thing in gaming forums — no matter the state of the Hearthstone sub-reddit, for example, most HS players are probably just happily enjoying the game.

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zeko_rena

That is a good point, I just always hope to scroll down to find at least some interesting discussion and perhaps join in and form friendships with people here.

But its just always a huge argument, same people saying they hate it and the same people saying why they should not hate it etc.

Maybe its just the way the world is going these days, everyone is always arguing, this is getting way too deep for a video game news website!

LOL

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

just in case you’re under the erroneous impression i hate this game:

here’s a playlist of me and a friend playing just this year alone – with dozens more videos from previous years

i am critical of every game i play, and choose to share those criticisms on massively when they cover said games.

and quite frankly there’s quite a lot to criticize star citizen about – if not necessarily the game itself, the business practices and marketting of the developers behind it.

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DoomSayer

Just curious what you don’t like about their “business practices” and marketing you dislike?

Marketing, they simply don’t. They post to youtube and twitter but you will NEVER find one paid ad about Star Citizen. So if people choose to spread the word you can’t really fault CIG for that.

Business Practices. So you don’t like the Buy To Play format they have? Everything they sell for money is to help develop the game and they tell EVERYONE it isn’t necessary unless you want to support them. Period, end of story. So you get mad because people want to buy $1,000 space ships? Do you also get mad whenever someone buys a Bugatti Veyron? At least you can earn all the ships in game which they tell you up front.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

nice meme.

Estranged
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Estranged

Nick – Marketing is sending alerts of new ship offerings. Free list of interested people.

You honestly think people will be earning all the ships by grinding content? Come on. Chris said himself they had to make sure cash customers didn’t feel like their investment was easy to obtain by grinding.

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zeko_rena

Which is a shame really, as I don’t mind if for example the Carrack is not a super grind for people to earn in game, my main train of through when I bought it was I am supporting development, not to short cut :(

Estranged
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Estranged

zeko – I know. Wouldn’t bother me either. It is like how discounts for new players don’t bother me in this genre. I think being able to play first is a huge bonus, plus – that is the nature of things. Prices will fall on products.

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zeko_rena

Oh I was not targeting my comments at anyone in particular at all, not trying to single any one person out :)

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

Ye i just wanted to put it out there cuz i routinely get accused of trying to ruin sc somehow when this pretty much the only the only place i criticize sc outside of my irc chan for the game.

I can be rather harsh on it but its from a position of not only wanting them to do better but also what this whole thing could do to the business of games

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mike foster

Jon Stewart used to say something like “it’s hard to rally people around a battle cry of ‘be reasonable!'”

TBH Massively has a killer community. Every now and then we go off the rails but the community is what makes this place special.

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Melissa McDonald

I had to go way on back to 1970s for this one…
“Beth, I hear you callin’, but I can’t come home right now.
‘Cause me and the boys are coding, and we just can’t find the clowns,
Just a few more quarters, and I’ll release a game for you,
I think we need more money, oh Beth, what can I do?
We publish some bug fixes, but create a dozen more.
Meanwhile the brass is bragging, about how they’ll have engrossing lore.
Just a few more quarters, and I’ll release a game for you,
But a hundred-sixty-million, oh Beth can it be true?
Yachts and fancy dinners, videos and online blogs,
While some of us are seeing a tooth gone from the cog,
Just a few more years, and we’ll release a game for you,
The IRS is calling, oh Beth, what can we do?
Beth, I know you’re lonely, and I hope you’ll be alright.
‘Cause me and the boys will be coding, all niiiight.”

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mike foster

Fun story: Beth is KISS’s highest-charting single, but doesn’t have anyone from the band performing on it except the drummer.

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loo mb

Is this game released yet?
and where’s the “Zander” guy who’
s usually white-knighting SC…

Zander
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Zander

I’m not defending shit. Gave a date. They are fucking waaay late. You called?

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Paragon Lost

You do tend to be just a bit white knight like in your support of SC, just a bit. I do like that you can and will criticize that which should be criticized. Like this. You aren’t the one poster who I feel anymore just goes down the whole thread shilling blindly almost every post. :/

A little white knighting isn’t bad, going total Crusader with blaring horns and music and riding everyone down like Joe does is unacceptable.

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Joe Blobers

Quote Paragon:” riding everyone down like Joe does is unacceptable”

First I am not riding everyone. Count my posts versus others that will be a good start. May be it is acceptable enough for you?

Second Paragon you try to look like the guy with a lot of reason, giving good and bad point… but looking at SC article and yours posts… you are either not there at all, or coming to provide your feeling about one or two… and it looks like the two are… me :)

I provide information that does not go in the direction of some.. Readers can sort them out by themself. There are ATV’s to show what the game intented to provide.
One thing I will never recommend anyone is to pick or reject a game, just by reading comments on forum. And it looks like monthly pledges do prove I am right :)

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Ken from Chicago

Sounds like Zander fits the “Believer” category (like myself).

sc wheel.png
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Brian McBride

I can’t say this chart is accurate.

I doubt the project will succeed – but the qualifier “possibility it might on more modest terms”. I also disagree with. So I’m less than Skeptic, but I’ve also never been banned or trolled the project. I don’t hate it at all.

Here is why I think the project will, eventually, fail:
There is a reason in software development people get paid on delivery (of final product or milestones). I see this project is out of control with no accountability and people are paying them to develop. That is a huge difference from paying them to deliver.

I would bet the farm that if half of all the income from this game was held in escrow until a final release THEN the develop team got that as a delayed bonus – you would have a released game today.

So – if you want this game to be completed, stop paying them to develop and pay them for delivery.

Of course, the second reason this game will fail hard is that it’s been hyped too long. This is now a project that can’t possibility deliver on the promise. They should have released a more simple game and built expansions onto it. Now there is a huge promise out there… If this game isn’t the best space battle + mmo out there it is going to tank big.

BUT, here is the rub. Although I am sure they care about their project – it can be a bomb and they won. They have already been paid, a HUGE amount. They have nice big paychecks and a long-lasting development cycle that never seems to end. Since they are being paid to develop in perpetuity and there seems to be no stop to people willing to pay for dev and not delivery, they win.

Seriously, imagine if you had a job that you got to build stuff that is arguably pretty fun to build without any deadlines and a near unlimited cash flow? Yeah… who wants to stop that train?

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Ken from Chicago

What mmos stop being developed?

Zander
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Zander

Holy shit this chart’s accurate.

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Paragon Lost

Right? It’s feels accurate,it’s funny and interesting. Kudos to whoever created it.

edangerous
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edangerous

The chart was done by a goon by the name of Gorf.

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Paragon Lost

I’m more in the one down from that category, Agnostic. I’m very amused that there is that chart though. lol

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mike foster

I think I qualify as a “skeptic.” I’m also OBSESSED with this — I read SC stuff almost every day.

No matter what happens this is going to be one of the most interesting stories in the history of games.

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Paragon Lost

Yeah I will admit that it can be very easy to become obsessed over it. I do read everything that comes out. Never boring that’s a fact.

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Armsbend

doesn’t matter. it is weird when random people “call” you out on a forum.

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Paragon Lost

Not sure I follow why that is. If you say things, then you shouldn’t be surprised if people comment. Morso when you make remarks that some might disagree with strongly. I think you are missing the purpose of forums and communication.

I mean we call out for Schlag or many of us do, to post one of their wonderful memes. Is that weird? No. If you are going to engage in social behavior with others in person, or on forums it shouldn’t surprise you if people call you on things you do or say or that you are known for doing and saying. Weird? Nope, what’s weird is that you feel it is weird and I strongly disagree with your “doesn’t matter”.

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Armsbend

Weird – not unacceptable. I’ve been on the receiving end it feel stalky. But whatever I come for the free popcorn.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

idk i find it kind of weird when people like joe blobers on their first appearance on this site call me out by name before i’ve made an appearance and then proceed to reply to every post i make multiple times over the course of multiple days.

>>

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Joe Blobers

Quote Deekay_Plus: “when people like joe blobers on their first appearance on this site call me out by name”
… You sound a bit off… proof of naming?

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Schlag Sweetleaf

.

star scrub 2.gif
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Roger Melly

Sometimes it seems a week doesn’t go by without another controversy about Star Citizen . It is quite amusing to watch .

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ChiefTurtle

((Deleted by mod.))

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Roger Melly

Being from Europe I haven’t really got caught up in the whole fake news and alternative facts fad that seems to be sweeping the USA at the moment .

To me it just seems all a bit odd because what is labelled fake news often seems to be News that doesn’t have a partisan bias in favor of right wing politics ( ie news that isn’t virtual propaganda ) and the same people who seem to be calling it fake are willing to believe the most absurd internet rumours which have no basis in reality . While alternative facts as basically either cherry picked “facts” from dubious sources or just outright lies .

It can be applied to Star Citizen here because this story is obviously based on facts but you decry it as fake because you don’t like those facts .

It just find it all very odd and a very sad because potentially extremely dangerous for any society where that kind of mentality if allowed to take hold in a significant proportion of the population .

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Armsbend

The US is in it’s worst state in my four decades walking this earth. The amount of misinformation and distrust of everything is alarming to be honest. The cracks are opening up and real violence between political opponents is starting to seap out. With our innate propensity to violence I expect some real fireworks in the coming years. It is going to get really bad before it gets better.

That said, the earth has never gone this long without a major upheaval – so here we are. Another fantastic battle of ideologies. except this time we all have weapons that can burn the world forever. Let’s join the dinos shall we?

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Paragon Lost

I’ll stack onto that Armsbend with another decade plus, plus ten years living around the world. In other words to be clear I strongly agree with your post. (sigh)

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Sally Bowls

It is quite bad now.

OTOH, in my [grand]parents time there was a global flu epidemic that killed more people than WWI, several tens of millions. Then there was the great depression. Then WWII and losing to either the country that did Pearl Harbor & Baatan or that elected Hitler would have been bad. In the early sixties, there was no Voting Right Act or Civil Rights Act and the Cuban Missle Crisis was arguably as close to extinction the species has gotten. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_cover“Duck and cover” exercises quickly became a part of Civil Defense drills that every US citizen, from children to the elderly, was encouraged to practice so that they could be ready in the event of nuclear war.

Again, I agree things are bad and getting worse.

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Paragon Lost

Yeah I experienced the joy of duck and cover drills in elementary school and earthquake drills for that matter throughout my schools years. I’ve found the last seven months in particular to be rather depressing.

I actually put on ten pounds in the last few months. I’m getting to the point that I need to just start turning out some of what’s going on in the world. I don’t need to add to the heart medication I’m already on. lol

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Armsbend

Just this weekend I put a parent control on myself for certain sites. I used to think that knowing all sides of was somehow beneficial now I think it is poisoning my psyche. So I literally put a ban on myself that is hard to overrride.

i’m liking it.

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Paragon Lost

I like it, something I need to do more of myself. Peace of mind is priceless.

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Armsbend

If you care to know I use Chrome and added extension ‘Block site’ from google’s store. It seems really un-intrusive. You just put whatever site you want and what site you to redirect to and viola.

not only is it good for the psyche but getting more stuff done :)

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shear

They provided a link to the original source, this isn’t fake news, they just rewrote what CiG said.

edangerous
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edangerous

Yes, preach it son. FAKE NEWS!! alternative facts!! Fake controversies, CNNMSNBC, SJW, white power!

Lay off the moonshine for your own good.

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Roger Melly

hahaha :) nice one

Estranged
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Estranged

The fun comes from both sides being dead wrong. However, the Elite enjoy watching us squabble, keeps our minds off them.

Moonshine? Stereotype much?

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Armsbend

I like moonshine.

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Melissa McDonald

I live not 50 miles from where Jack Daniel’s is made. That’s some good whiskey. Natural spring at the distillery with iron-free water, they char their own oak barrels, and it has a sweet corny taste that I find appealing. Too many liquors are just an alcohol blast, like some kind of mouthwash. I like a little bit of flavor in there.

Estranged
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Estranged

@Armsbend Small batch rye whiskey is hard to beat.

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Roger Melly

Never had moonshine myself but I imagine its potent stuff .

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Armsbend

I’ve had both. I’ve had shine that is more akin to store bought 80 proof booze that was just as good as you’d fine on any shelf.

States are slowly starting to open avenues to small batch legal shine so I hope better booze will come in the future. I’m not a hard liquor drinker much but it’s fun on camping trips and such. cheers!

edangerous
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edangerous

Just throwing the ridiculousness back in his own face.

Estranged
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Estranged

That is fair. I’m tired. lol

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primal

well at least the finish date of 8th september hasnt changed in the last couple of weeks. so as long as that date doesnt move it doesnt matter

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wratts

Wait for it . . .

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Danny Smith

At this point the reactions from the ‘i have my wing commander rank and another 10k ready but my wife might leave me’ guys are more fun than anything related to the game itself. The mental spin-nastics are always a treat to behold.
I hear the latest one is a paranoid victim complex conspiracy about goons ‘out to kill me game’ so lets watch it unfold.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

the goon armies at the gates of SC conspiracy thoery is at least a year old.

and has about as much weight as calling me a hater who is here to stop people from spending money on the game. XD

the truth is goons don’t talk much about the game outside of a single thread on their own massive forums where they talk as such about just about every game on the market that catches any of their’s interests.

so it’s pretty amusing to see sc fanboys act like goons are chomping at the bit to ruin the game somehow.

tho i guess some goons did help people who were seeking legally entitled refunds that CIG had to be threatened with criminal legal action to give.

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ChiefTurtle

((Deleted by mod.))

Estranged
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Estranged

Chief – EVE is an established game with over a decade of successful operation. SC is a glorified tech demo.

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Sally Bowls

I disagree with “glorified tech demo.” If they ever successfully demonstrated it works, sure. But IMO it is too soon to call it a glorified tech demo.

Estranged
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Estranged

Sally – damn!

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shear

Burn. :D

edangerous
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edangerous

3.0 will be a buggy, janky mess just like 2.0, just like 1.0, just like AC and just like the hangar module before it.

It’s the most expensive amateur game ever made.

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primal

of course itll be buggy, it is still an alpha if the gold release game is the same then youd have something to moan about. they can only do so much

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shear

They aren’t treating this as alpha, they could have released it already with the bugs that it has, and fixed them later on, nobody can be mad at them for it being buggy, but after this long and so much hype built up by the comunity, they need this to be good, or the shit will hit the fan.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

it doesn’t help that in selling the game to potential customers the fanboys present misleading videos amd other materials that make it seem in much better and more polished/less buggy state than it actually is.

i’ve seen countless videos from prior to 2.6 making it seem as if multicrew ship physics grids didn’t routinely eject players from them or spin wildly if the pilot stood up when no one else was seated.

the former of which has improved alot, the latter not so much.

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shear

Oh man, that’s funny. :D But it’s alpha so I get it.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

it’s something that i’m sure they’ll fix but it’s certainly a hassle doing the missions in a mc ship because of it XD

edangerous
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edangerous

If it’s a buggy janky mess it’s not going to kick publishers and natsayers butts like ChiefTurtle claims, is it.

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primal

i doubt itll be a mess, may still be buggy in areas though asa to be expected but as long as your not falling through ships or your cargo is falling through ships or half your stuff is missing crossing physics zones or whatever itll be ok.

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kidwithknife

Okay, I’m pretty sure the Star Citizen peeps are just fucking with us now. This is just too obvious. I feel like any day now they’re going to post an update just stating “WoW was the first MMORPG”. :P

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Lateris Ablon

SWG was the first MMO :)

dsnart
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dsnart

It’s funny how soo many people make these claims in the comments yet no not a thing about Project Development. It’s just Juicy to read,

I wonder when My Lesser Half Will Show up and Make up his same ol’ nonsense. I’m sure he’ll keep putting on that front for everyone to Deflect from his Failure of a Game Development. But let’s wait and see shall we Ladies and Gents?

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Haven’t seen Derek Smart in here in a while. I hope he was just banned. The guy is toxic.

edangerous
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edangerous

no != know

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Armsbend

do you think CIG are good at project development? They inspire confidence in their project? This graph makes you feel good about the state of the game?

I think you should give more to Robert’s slush fund. He needs another boat.

Estranged
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Estranged

@armsbend Let them eat digital cake!

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Oleg Chebeneev

comment image

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Well, I’m glad I decided to bail from this project, got my refund last week.
It really started with Roberts standing on stage and outright lying about what was coming in 2017 and then failing to achieve any of that, fuck ’em.

All he is good for these days is talking the talk.

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ChiefTurtle

((Deleted by mod.))

Estranged
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Estranged

Damn, the paranoia runs wild.

Cult, it is.

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

You what?
A. I’m not a goon
B. I end an article to MOP once a fortnight, if that.
C. I make no mention of any other game.

Ergo, you’re just a whinging baby suffering from a bad case of hyperbolia.

Suck it up buttercup.

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Joe Blobers

Quote cmdr-Cotic:”got my refund last week.”

How many time have you been refunded man? :) Is it the fake refund of 16K that hater were spreading last week in others SC articles? the forged “proof” we can see here and there? I find one very funny… total amount was not even equal to several payments allegedly done by CIG bank… :)
Keep your hater campaing man, +2M$ on average… a company in bankrupcy since 3 years :)

edangerous
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edangerous

I’d like to see some proof to these claims as well or is this a case of slapping everyone with the same brush?

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Roger Melly

Joe if you can send a couple of links more than a month or two old where he has said he has been refunded then I will admit you have a point other than that how do we know you are not making it up ?

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

He’s making it up, god knows why.
I can only assume he’s a petty little prick who wants to defend CIG’s e-honour and this is his way of getting “revenge”…

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ChiefTurtle

((Deleted by mod.))

edangerous
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edangerous

Did you miss the screenshot that cmdr_cotic posted showing his refund?

Why are you guys so sour about someone using a refund service that CIG provide?

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shear

Because you’re not allowed to get your money back! It’s CiGs now… forever…

You wouldn’t believe how many people dislike the “just get a refund if you’re not happy” statement on Reddit. But like why? Getting a refund is normal anywhere else, but not when it comes to SC. This is just another thing that makes the whole community feel like a cult

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DoomSayer

Oh you mean like if you buy a game on Steam and play it for longer than 2 hours you can a refund right? Even if it is in “early Access”. Maybe you should find some examples of games you can play as long as you want and get a refund. Go ahead I’ll be waiting.

edangerous
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edangerous

Yeah it is strange, they’ll slag the guy off that got $50 back but turn a blind eye to the grey market scalpers…

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shear

Those are also the same people that say “Oh it’s not a big deal they can’t make a dent in SC rising budget” and to that I say, “well then you shouldn’t care if they get a refund, should you?”

It’s very amusing.

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Trust Blober to stick his nose in with more of his usual bullshit.

I have made no claims about recieving a refund prior to the above post, I have played no part in anything to do with a 16K refund. You know this but your ant-critic agenda makes you just want to shit stir.

View post on imgur.com

Bite my fucking bag.

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Joe Blobers

This one is better :)

Just to say that it is not because someone pretend something on internet is true with a “proof”… that it is the case. Far to be.
Even coming from “expert” shooting not so long ago: “Seamless transition from space to planet is decades away”… it is coming in few weeks with 3.0.

One sure thing: crowfunding is not for everyone. Next time, stay away and wait for release if you can not udnerstand that a 12 company guys with 6M$ can’t deliver a Triple-A in 3 years.

Fake or not fake.png
cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

This one is better :)

No shit sherlock, it’s better because it’s real you dumb fuck. Why would I lie over a $50 fucking refund, what’s to be gained from that?

Just to say that it is not because someone pretend something on internet is true with a “proof”… that it is the case. Far to be.

Like your claims that I have sought refunds multiple times or that I had involvement with some bogus $16k refund. Liars like yourself, see liars everywhere, that’s the one truth in this nonsense.

One sure thing: crowfunding is not for everyone. Next time, stay away and wait for release if you can not udnerstand that a 12 company guys with 6M$ can’t deliver a Triple-A in 3 years.

Yeah fuck you, you sanctimonious prick.
I’ve backed numerous games and been a backer of SC for almost 4 years now, so fuck off already with the “it’s not for you” bullshit.

Christ, what an asshole.

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shear

So he gives you proof, and you call it a lie… Wow. :D

Also, 3.0 isn’t coming out in a couple of weeks, they are going to delay it again.

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Joe Blobers

Quote shear:”So he gives you proof, and you call it a lie…”

Not what I said:”it is not because someone pretend something on internet is true with a “proof””… and I provided right away a fake document with outrageous number just to be sure everybody understand that:

– Proof on Internet are just JPEG… and I know some like to use this name :)
– I could have used much modest amounts… but still it won’t be true or a proof.
Internet is full of those stories…

And yes 3.0 will be provided… when ready and not like publishers do… This game is under heavy development for a good year and half that will bring SC to Beta.
Facts and numbers can’t be twiked. 3 Years = No Triple A starting with 12 guys and 6M$.

I will repeat it as often as needed :)

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Melissa McDonald

“Deadlines, schmedlines. Buy some more ships, people, it will help the game get finished. And it’s going to be a great game. A really great game. Probably the greatest game ever.”

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Estranged
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Estranged

Melissa – Trump would have fired them all. Some friend of his daughter would be running SC development. lol

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Melissa McDonald

Nepotism in government is nothing new. it got 2 of the Kennedy brothers killed (nobody deserves that), and the 3rd discredited (which he totally deserved).

Estranged
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Estranged

Melissa – The murdered Kennedy brothers were interested in doing good things for our country. It is a shame. Would be such a different situation. JFK challenged us to do something that hasn’t been accomplished again… go to the Moon.

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Melissa McDonald

Somewhat. Let’s not canonize them. They were politicians. They made enemies with their actions (closing military bases, awarding manufacturing contracts strategically to get votes, not rewarding the Chicago mob for rigging the Illinois election that put John in office, pissing off the CIA and FBI). And let’s not forget they were philanderous men. Everyone always earns the paddle for their hiney.

Estranged
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Estranged

Their fortune was made from Dad’s bootlegging, I have admire it somewhat. LOL

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shear

Isn’t that what’s happening in CiG though? CR’s wife is running marketing, his friends are managers? Wow, I never even drew that parallel. Hilarious.

Estranged
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Estranged

shear – yes, the difference is he would fire them as well.

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Sally Bowls

Could be worse. Today’s article in Esquire “Inside Kim Jong-un’s Bloody Scramble to Kill Off His Family”

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

his brother is now defacto lead dev of both the mmo and the single player. and probably the only reason development has gone forward after the first couple years of very little legitimate subtantial progress being made.

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Ah. My weekly Star Citizen chuckle. The wreck that keeps on giving.

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Natalyia

How they got to the point where they’re just now in the bug-fixing phase is a project-management and communications failure. Clearly, they knew their dates were fictional long before now. That being said, now that they’re (hopefully) just fixing bugs, the issue graph is the only realistic measure. Because there’s no good way to estimate how long it’s going to take to find and fix bugs. And something of this scope only makes that more true.

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shear

Eh it’s just going to get delayed again, that much is clear at this point. I get it though, there are so many different systems working together, this can’t be easy, but why say stupid stuff like “this Christmas, this June, this August, this September.

Hell, I am entertained at least. :D

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Armsbend

It just shows that out of the 400+ working on the project roughly 0 know what is fully going on.

I find it really hard to believe that at the meeting they had concerning this the best they could come up with was to scrap something recently introduced to quell misgivings of our backers and replace it with a mystical graph. I would really love to know what ideas were rejected. Just for comedy.

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Joe Blobers

Correct… this is proven they are all paid to play Mahjong…. this is on Glassdoor or soon… for sure :)

oldandgrumpy
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oldandgrumpy

Actually that graph is a good thing believe it or not. In my software development experience that’s the real deal and that what your life as a developer revolves around when trying to get a product out the door. All the focus of the company becomes on those numbers and hopefully there decline.

Fix one issue find another is all part of the course as well. I feel sorry for the people at the bottom as the pressure is insane at this time and so are the hours worked.

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Armsbend

In my software experience (MS Dynamics) this would have been useless and as a vendor MS would have cut ties with us instantaneously.

oldandgrumpy
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oldandgrumpy

Try Firmware or OS internals software development then :) Some software comes with such financial and legal liability that it just cannot go out the door on an particular date. Not that Star Citizen has this particular issue.

Estranged
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Estranged

@armsbend We had actual products to ship at a specific date – no excuses. If late, gonna pay a penalty. It is amazing how that aspect forces people to cull crappy bloated features.

Hardass project managers are the straw that stirs the drink.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

experiences with my compsci pro guildies unable to play with us for weeks at a time because they’ve got a deadline to meet confirms this.

games or software if CIG was actually beholden to their purse string holders they’d be out of business quite a while ago due to lost contracts due to over runs and missed deadlines for milestones.

there’s a certain degree of scotty etas in any software development, games or otherwise. but this is massively beyond that paradigm to the nth degree.

there are two ways to look at this really:

every eta has been a concious lie.

their project managers and leads really are that incompetent

Estranged
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Estranged

DK – they believe their own lies, it is to that point, in my opinion.

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Armsbend

It’s a really tough business. You have intensely strong personalities cut with not the most acute sense of social grace. Add to that strict deadlines and high customer expectations and it makes software PMs even more critical (I am guessing I’ve never done it in anything but software) than other industries. Stress levels are always at a peak it can really wear on you.

I was on a tiny team of 60 compared to this so I can only imagine how hard it is. Except, as Sally B has pointed out multiple times, CIG doesn’t really have to give a shit about anything. Their backers keep giving them money even though they keep pissing in their faces and allow them to make every excuse in the book. Why would you bother delivering? Delivering creates more uncertainty that not in this extremely odd case.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

it’s an ourobouros really. and the fanboys seem to give them more money to “prove” the “naysayers” and “haters” wrong who are oftne just fellow backers who are voicing that they want to hold CIG accountable and actually deliver.

you know like all the big talk CR did in the early years about being even more accountable to backers than he’d have to be to a publisher.

which the fanboys prove wrong over and over again – CIG need not be accountable becuase the fanboys will reward them handsomely for failure and bullshitting us.

hell in this thread we’ve got fanboys that are upset by CIG’s own communications being reported as is calling it fake news. XD

rouintely i will quote CR on this site in these articles and they will argue against it somehow. it’s incredible really.

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Armsbend

I don’t have a problem with CR at this point – it’s clear what he is up to – or not up to (making a game). I have a problem with the backers this is their doing.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

CR says stupid things and the fanboys run with them and exxagerate them

which CR knows they run with it and says stupid things for the cheers he gets.

only to have the fanboys act like he never said those things or he didn’t mean what he clearly meant or w/e

i mean look at joe blober giving 2018 eta for 4.0. something CR has never done, but there was the implication based on the eta given for 3.0 that it might possibly go that way.

except 3.0 is now 8 months late and counting so clearly that fan spawned 2018 eta for 4.0 is far out the window to anyone looking at it within the realm of reality.

but for fans like joe blober reality is no barrier to their dreams and salesmanship and defense force acts.

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Joe Blobers

Quote deekay_plus:”fans like joe blober reality is no barrier to their dreams and salesmanship and defense force acts.”

I do not believe CR is God , and I am providing alternate vision based on facts, numbers and estimation.

It is certainly not eprfect… but much better and appropriate than your behavior, spreading rumors twisted, false, unverifiable or forged:

– ”severe issue with not respecting managers”
– “official proof of something… deleted, nobody have a link”
-“they’ve already had enough serious legal and financial organization threats”
-“they were stalking people on social media to use their social media posts against them ”

… and this on a single comment section…

Before pointing someone else man, you should really avoid to fall deeply in such baseless attitude, come into a public forum section and throw serious accusation to someone (CIG or anyone else). Better have some source to document the level of seriousness you describe. If you don’t it is pure libel.

You can glue fanboy, whiteknight to my alt, I do not care but out of curiosity…. how do you name someone with such records of misinformation (at best) I listed from your own comment?

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

The irony of this post in a thread with one of your cohorts spamming about fake news. When as a rule your commentary is utterly divorsed from reality.

Alternate visions indeed.

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Joe Blobers

Quote deekay_plus:”with one of your cohorts spamming about fake news”
You now what spamming means right DK?… At least I am not married with libel :)

Did you find a name to your records of misinformation (at best) I listed from your own comments?

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

m80 this behaviour isn’t healthy. seek help.

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Joe Blobers

I agree Deekay_plus, libel is definitively not healthy :)

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Armsbend

You don’t realize how critical they are to success until you do. It is clear that they either don’t have one or they are learning what it is on the job. Which is literally insane on a $160M software project.

Estranged
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Estranged

@Armsbend Indeed. Mine was a bastard and I love him for it. Why? He gave me the greatest advice of my professional life :

“Create expectations in which you can only meet every single time – today, tomorrow and 5 years from today.”

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Greaterdivinity

“We suck at project management ant timelines so let’s just give up and arbitraily change the metric we use to measure progress to bug fixes!”

I’ll defer to others who know more about all this, but my brief look into it sure doesn’t make this change look like a good thing at all.

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Like is shown in this gif?

View post on imgur.com

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Greaterdivinity

So if I’m understanding correctly…that’s showing the “start” and “end” dates for everything being pushed further and further back (even after these things have already “started”) as things continually slip?

Just trying to make sure I’m reading/understanding that gif correctly or not, because if so that…doesn’t look good for CIG at all : /

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

that’s the thing that bothered me with the graphs before. things that appeared to be done, would magically extend the next week or a couple weeks later.

some things would be removed as if they were finished only to reappear weeks later.

begs some questions doesn’t it?

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Sally Bowls

Well, IMO this is a symptom, not the problem. If you are not going to, for want of a better word, manage the project – i.e. change the plan due to schedule performance, then why waste the time making schedules and computing dates. If the dates are not going to change anything, then it is more efficient to not bother computing schedules.

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Greaterdivinity

The problem is that they clearly CAN’T set milestone schedules and meet them, which is like, one of the most important parts of making a game. Being able to effectively plan out your schedule/budget and then meet that schedule to stay on track is insanely important.

It’s one of the reasons Microsoft dropped McQuaid/Vanguard, reportedly. They were missing milestones too frequently, and even the ones they were making were largely smoke and mirrors presented to Microsoft rather than the actual milestone being met. And it ended with…well…Vanguard being what it was at launch.

Publishers are the “stick” that keeps developers from letting budgets/timelines spin out of control as the developers want to add more polish, more features, more systems, or continue working on a feature that’s clearly going to take far too much time and money to implement as planned and needs to be scaled back.

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Sally Bowls

Oh I agree with that. Going all Eastern, but SC biggest strength and biggest weakness is they have no management/publisher to answer to. This would be a much better project with a publisher.

OTOH, I disagree with “Being able to effectively plan out your schedule/budget and then meet that schedule to stay on track is insanely important.” Obviously, that is true in the real world. I am not sure how much it applies to SC. It seems to me that it is of no interest to SC management. I can see it; if you told that I had an unlimited budget regardless of my performance – and that is what gamers are shouting to SC – I can see the enormous temptation to ignore schedules and make no hard choices to limit features.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

keepign in mind budget wise this is a company that thinks have full wall size murals of concept art in every conference room and a new ones for their video spam back drops on a weekly basis is a good use of money.

so w/e they are bringing in appears to be spent just as fast or faster than it comes in.

so unlimited funds may be in doubt here.

there also may come a time when they run out of ideas of ships to sell. i mean they are selling trucks now ffs.

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Greaterdivinity

It’s extremely important for any project, and CIG/SC exists in the real world : P

Yeah, they can push timelines around a bit, but budgets are always going to come into play. It seems to be a large reason for why they’re churning out so many ships/vehicles to sell to folks still, because they’re not going to be able to come close to finishing the game without plenty of steady, additional funding. That’s a problem, because that should be going towards post-launch budget work.

SC doesn’t have an unlimited budget, it’s using crowdfunded money. And despite folks being responsible for their own choices, CIG still has a responsibility towards their backers not to treat them like “daddy’s credit card”, where they can just go to them for money any time they want to add in a cool new feature that they just thought up instead of shelving that feature until after they’ve actually delivered.

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Armsbend

“Goddammit we ran out of coffee guys.”
“Wait Bill…I found some in the back of the pantry!”
“COFFEE TIME!!”

CRITICAL ISSUE SOLVED MARK IT UP BOYS

Estranged
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Estranged

@armsbend Coffee is serious business, entire meetings have been dedicated to it in my past life.

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Armsbend

While I agree whole-heartedly I’m not sure if it aligned with the backers goals. However at this point i’m not sure if anyone wants a finished game or not. I’m starting to believe THIS is the game.

Estranged
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Estranged

@Armsbend We are discussing primo coffee. Half digested, it is…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

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Phubarrh

comment image

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Armsbend

This graph will prove useful.

Did it seem that I type that straight-faced?

Instead of having dates they arbitrary added internal trackers numbers solved and not-solved. Not indicating what any of those are. Instead of dates.

You guys realize how deep in a scam you are yet? You knuckleheads out there?

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Joe Blobers

Quote Armsbend:”You guys realize how deep in a scam you are yet? ”

Not really because game development can not be understood by some people, despite trying to educate them the basic.
Till end of 2018, CIG is going to release major patch up to 4.0… not fast enough? There are plenty of others games around.
End of Nov. 2012: zero company, 12 guys and 6 M$. They are not late by any mean.

Now if you believe a Triple-A can be delivered in 3 years, you scam yourself… deeply. But Who care about facts or numbers right? Not those pledging + 2M$ per month on average :)

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

LOL. They can’t deliver 1 patch in a year, what on earth makes you think they can deliver 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 and 4.0 in a year. You’re living in cloud cuckoo land.

Estranged
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Estranged

Joe – they have missed every deadline. You know the definition of insanity, right?

BTW, all games start off with small teams. To say they are running really late is actually true. They have no excuses, the money is there to make it happen.

Average MMO dev time is 5-6 years, including the small department phase.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i like how joe gives a super overly aggressive eta for 4.0 that even CIG hasn’t given in the face of them being 8 months late and counting on a cut down milestone.

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shear

All of the CoD games have been delivered in under three years, all of the AC games have a three-year development cycle.

These are just two examples, I am sure you’ll say none of them are as big as SC and you’re right, but that a different point.

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Armsbend

Just decide for yourself when you’ll admit that this is a problem and unlike the CIG you support – stick to that date. It will come.

Yangers
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Yangers

Till end of 2018, CIG is going to release major patch up to 4.0… not fast enough?

So they say. Like they’ve said a lot of other things that never happened on schedule or at all.

wpDiscuz