The Daily Grind: How do you feel about IP-knockoff MMOs?

I have to admit to being a little on the fence about the whole Legends of Equestria project. On one hand, it looks like a spot-on My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic production sans the name, and I admire fans who see a need going unfulfilled and go to such lengths to do what the IP owners do not.

On the other hand, I have a slight allergy to knock-offs (I never liked getting Go-Bots in the 1980s when Transformers were available) and it concerns me that all this work might be squashed if the IP owner decides to raise a legal fuss about it. I guess I would much rather have official products rather than fanfiction-made-MMOs, but sometimes you don’t have the luxury of that choice.

How do you feel about IP-knockoff MMO projects? Are they worth pursuing and playing, or should it be “official or bust?”

Every morning, the Massively Overpowered writers team up with mascot Mo to ask MMORPG players pointed questions about the massively multiplayer online roleplaying genre. Grab a mug of your preferred beverage and take a stab at answering the question posed in today’s Daily Grind!
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83 Comments on "The Daily Grind: How do you feel about IP-knockoff MMOs?"

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Bol Daer

When I was still a kid, I too thought that anything that isn’t the ‘official’ one is the bad one. Nowadays I realize it doesn’t matter which is the ‘official’ one and which isn’t. It all comes down to who makes the best product and provides the best user experience. If someone else can provide a better user experience than you do, then you can provide a better user experience than you do. IPs, and also copyrights and patents in general, are just constructs that allow you to deprive the universe of creativity, and also to get lazy and not care about what you actually produce.

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Leiloni

I think obvious knockoffs are cheap and dishonest so I can’t stand them. But if a game is inspired by other games, well that’s normal and can often be a good thing when a game takes aspects from a game we liked and puts it into something new and different. But blatant knockoffs I hate.

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Jack Pipsam

If the IP holders aren’t willing/interested to do a specific kind of project with their property or nobody else with means if acquiring a licence is interested in creating a project then I am all for fans to give it a crack.

Of course fan games are always made under the risk of one day getting hit by a legal order by the IP owners, that’s a risk and something fan games have been dealing with since the start. But should that mean they shouldn’t try? I don’t think so if they’re fully aware that they might need to suddenly stop if requested to do so by the I.P Holder.

Projects like Legends of Equestria are labours of love. A non-profit indie MMO built ground up in Unity with running servers, decently sized player base been developed by a range of volunteers across the globe is nothing to scoff at. Sure they have to change all the names about, sure they’re always under a risk of closure.

But as Warhammer Online, Star Wars Galaxies and Matrix Online proved, even being officially licensed doesn’t guarantee long-term safety when it comes to the issue of IP.

I don’t count fan games like this as stealing, the project is too earnest and full of love to be simply stealing. They aren’t stealing assets and throwing up a jank thing on Steam or the App store to make a quick buck, this is different.

Is it a knock-off? Sure, by design it is. Is it jank? Totally, but so are most imports.
It is what it is and it’s just a testament to fan power that the dream project so many fandom’s always wish up on forums actually got made.

Yes ultimately no matter what names they change, they ARE at the mercy of Hasbro. Hasbro needs to be acknowledged and importantly respected in this instance as the holder of the keys and if they desire/require it, then LoE would need to be snuffed out as sad as it may be, that’s simply the harsh but known reality of creating fan projects.
But Hasbro has shown a certain lenience over time, yes some things like Fighting is Magic got hit, but then this is still up and keep in mind this has been in development for a few solid years so I highly doubt Hasbro doesn’t know it exists, I am sure they know, but they just haven’t done anything yet and I reckon they would have done something earlier like they did to the other MLP MMO in development.

I won’t pretend to understand the logic if what Hasbro allows and what they don’t as it can seem innocent enough stuff might get hit while some rather violent stuff is all cool. It might be they allow fan projects to run along until a moment where they cross a legal line (in Fighting is Magic’s instance it was when they got invited to EVO to show off the game, that was the legal line which got crossed). While for as long as Fallout Equestria stays firmly in the realm of fan characters they might not care as much (even Bethesda knows about that and lets it slide).

But sooner or later with a whole generation of fan artists, writers ect who grew up sharing their fan creations online which I am part of I think a solid legal stance will come out one way or the other with some case somewhere.
No doubt it would be someone like Disney or WB who’d trigger it. I think Hasbro is happy to let things slide for as long as they don’t get impacted or threatened by it.

But hey, it’s all up to the copyright gods in suits.

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Schmidt.Capela

AFAIK, Fighting is Magic crossed two lines.

First, associating the MLP franchise with violence. This seems to be a big no-no in Hasbro’s books.

Second, as you said, becoming widely known. Hasbro can ignore obscure fan-created content even if it’s completely against the desired image of the franchise (such as clop), but anything that becomes widespread is subjected to much closer scrutiny.

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Jack Pipsam

Perhaps, although there’s been other violent projects still about.

Heck Fighting is Magic on the violence scale is pretty tame compared to some of the stuff out there made by fans (and ironically I would only put it a notch above some fight scenes in the show itself).

I mean the Tirek fight while not violent-violent, was I would put on a comparable level to the level you’d see in say the Pokemon anime.

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Ben Pielstick

Simply stealing IP is one thing, but it is always a little sad when the fans want something that the IP holder refuses to provide. When fans go to the lengths to create what they want themselves against the IP holder’s wishes it can be hard to pick sides. I think the best solution for everyone involved in these cases, would be for fans to take inspiration from the IP they love, and create something of their own that captures the core essence of what they enjoyed, while making enough changes to actually be something new and different and not infringe on the original IP.

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steve

I recognize the value in having limited protection for creators, but I reject any ideology that equates the reuse of ideas with theft, and despise the current draconian system that allows the likes of Disney to claim ownership of the works of dead authors/creators.

There must be a healthy public domain, and we shouldn’t have to wait 70+ years for an idea to be free game.

That said, most knock-offs are garbage.

capt_north
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capt_north

If all you’re going to do is rip-off somebody else’s work and claim “parody” or some other legal loophole… you may have a future in porn.

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Schmidt.Capela

Ever heard of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (which parodies everything from the Ninja fad to Daredevil)? Monty Python?Weird Al? The League of Extraordinary Gentleman? Heck, Indiana Jones and James Bond, two of the most parodied characters ever, are themselves parodies.

capt_north
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capt_north

Oh, I have no beef against legitimate parody. But parody has specific criteria that set it apart from simple imitation. Imitation without those elements is not afforded nor deserving of fair use protection, no matter how many times the word “parody” is printed on the cover.

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starbuck1771

Correct because Ninja’s & Daredevil are actually Free Domain. As for the Parodies it falls under the Fair Usage principal. http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/

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Melissa McDonald

I’m definitely not a fan of ripoffs. They generally lack imagination and only wallow in the greater idea that inspired it. I’m not a fanfic reader either. I think it has something to do with my time struggling to be a professional musician, I got keen opinions on copyright, stealing, infringement, file sharing, compensation for the artist, etc.

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adri

If you only wanted the original games you could only play table top games ;)
So every game is more or less a knock-off (*looking at the WoW clone games*). To be honest: I don’t care if the game is a knock-off or not. As long as I enjoy it I play the game.

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A Dad Supreme

“So every game is more or less a knock-off (*looking at the WoW clone games*).”
=========
The WoW clones are more likely to be clones of a style of gameplay, not necessarily a copy of an IP. I believe that’s a major difference from a clone in itself.

The difference is how a game looks and feels lore/appearance wise, rather than how it plays.

No one would ever confuse SWTOR of being a WoW IP clone, but it’s called a “WoW clone” all the time because of it’s questhub/raiding style of play.

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A Dad Supreme

“How do you feel about IP-knockoff MMO projects? Are they worth pursuing and playing, or should it be “official or bust?””
==========
Sometimes a knockoff can be much better than the original.

If you take every official Warhammer IP’d videogame and combined the best of everything they did into one game, they still wouldn’t equal the success or popularity of it’s knockoff…

World of Warcraft.

edit: Also, Deadpool > Deathstroke as a knockoff.

https://www.polygon.com/comics/2016/1/28/10860668/deadpool-deathstroke-deadshot

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Schmidt.Capela

It’s common, even. We just tend to forget the less-successful original. Or does anyone think Harry Potter was the first story about a wizard school in a castle, Star Trek the first series about a starship crew boldly going where no man has gone before, X-Men the first comic about a superhero team with a paraplegic mentor, and so on?

pepperzine
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pepperzine

If you’re not directly using their intellectual property, I say go for it! Maybe it’ll show the actual IP that the demand for a game using their property is in demand and they’ll create their own game.

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David Goodman

Not a fan. It’s an entitled reaction by gamers – who already have a poor reputation for entitlement – to think that they can just take a thing that does not belong to them and use it how they think it should be used for, against (possibly) the wishes of the IP holder.

Now, if that IP holder gives them permission to use the assets, that’s different entirely, but I’ve no sympathy if they are hit with C&D orders. Most of them do so in defiance of the company wishes, or deliberately set up servers in locations that are outside US jurisdiction to hide from legal action, which is admission that they know what they’re doing is wrong and they don’t care.

Siphaed
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Siphaed

Ya, because Go-Bots weren’t at all lame….

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Schmidt.Capela

A knock-off is only an issue if it infringes the other product’s trademark (or copyright, but to infringe the copyright it needs to be a literal copy). Otherwise, I don’t care about something being a knock-off.

In fact, many well known and beloved IPs are actually knock-offs:
– Watchmen is a knock-off of the old Charlton Comics characters that Alan Moore wanted for his story.
– Miracle Man is a Captain Marvel knock-off that was given to Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman to play with.
– The X-Men are a knock-off of DC’s Doom Patrol.
– The Lion King is a knock-off of Osamu Tezuka’s Kimba The White Lion.
– Star Ocean (or at least the first one) starts as a Star Trek knock-off.

And the list goes on and on. Making knock-offs is an important part in artistic, scientific, and even industrial progress, which is why you can’t protect ideas, needing to develop them into a product, process, or work of art before the law confers them protection.

Now, two things can become a concern for me when something is blatantly a knockoff: if it looks like a cheap cash grab (like the multiple similarly named cheap cartoons that appear whenever Disney reveals a new project) and if it’s actually a copyright or trademark infringement.

If it looks like just a cheap cash grab, I will steer well away from it. No sense rewarding any kind of cash grab behavior, be it cheap knock-offs, licensed shovelware, or anything else where the objective is to rip off the consumer.

If it doesn’t look like a cash grab, but is close enough to its source material to infringe copyrights or trademarks, then it depends on whether it’s a commercial venue or not. I don’t want to help anyone whose aim is to profit from outright copyright or trademark violation, but on the other hand fan-made content “honoring” the original IP, with no intention of profiting from it, is something I love.

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Schmidt.Capela

Oh, right. Star Citizen is basically Chris Roberts ripping off the Wing Commander IP, an IP that CR created but is now in the hands of EA. And Shroud of the Avatar is basically Richard Garriott ripping off the Ultima IP, which similarly is an IP that RG created but is now owned by EA.

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starbuck1771

You do realize Chris Robert’s made Wing Commander and own’s the IP which is why he was able to make the movie right? So if you own the IP how can you rip it off?

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Schmidt.Capela

Nope, Chris Roberts doesn’t own the IP. EA was very particular about acquiring the rights to Origin’s two most successful franchises — Ultima and Wing Commander — when it acquired Origin in the 90s. From an interview with Chris Roberts:

“I didn’t want to sell Wing Commander to EA,” Roberts admits, “But the terms of the deal were that they were buying Origin and they had to get Wing Commander and Ultima. It was a dealbreaker if I said no, and if I said no a lot of other people that had helped to build the company up over quite a long time would have their payoff for all the hard work destroyed.”

Chris Roberts actually tried to negotiate with EA to make a new Wing Commander game before setting out to make Star Citizen.

Edit: And Wing Commander itself is heavily based on the space combat parts of Star Wars. Chris Roberts himself admits this.

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Pandalulz

So the funny part about this is, when I saw the Hiveleader article from earlier and didn’t take the time to watch it, I assumed that was an official MLP product. So… yeah I can see a C&D coming there. Wouldn’t be surprised if they have a trademark of some sort on the name Equestria itself. For myself, I’m not really ever interested in fan created anything, except the funny t-shirt here and there. I don’t want non-canon stories. And anything as big as a game is just yelling to fall apart at the weirdest internal strife over decisions, or money issues, or C&Ds, etc.

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Schmidt.Capela

Hasbro (the owner of My Little Pony) is a toy company. As such they have trademarks on every name they ever intend to release a toy about, including the names of most character that ever appeared in the show.

Their relationship with the fandom is a bit more complex, though. They started by cracking hard on fan-created content that infringed on their copyrights and trademarks, until they noticed how all that fan-created content was actually spreading and strengthening their IPs, improving the sales of their toys (which is what Hasbro actually cares about, the show is mostly a marketing ploy to sell more toys).

So, now Hasbro mostly takes a hands-off approach unless some fan-created product becomes a direct competitor to something they want to make or license. It’s better for their bottom line.

shibby523
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shibby523

I don’t understand why they use their energy and time to make a game based off another IP when they can just make an original game and try and make money off it. Like the Pokemon game Iridium or something like that, they spent years making the game and should have known it would get the attention of Nintendo and taken down.

All this time and energy that usually ends up shut down. Use this energy to make something original. Let these game influence your design, but don’t make blatant knock offs.

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Jeffrey Wu

You work with what you know best. And these worlds are well fleshed out because there’s a creator behind them. It gets the ball rolling that much faster.

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starbuck1771

Supply on demand. Want a Rolex watch but can’t afford one buy a knockoff at a cheaper price. BTW Some of the IP’s that games got their roots from go back way before computers existed. Just like in Hollywood there is very little originality in games.

shibby523
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shibby523

There is a difference from just taking ideas from a game and blatantly making a copy.

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starbuck1771

Yes but ask yourself what game doesn’t just take idea’s? The fact is they all do it in one form or another.

shibby523
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shibby523

When someone makes a game with the same art style as My Little Pony and does everything to be just like My Little Pony just not using the names and someone else makes a Pokemon game that looks just like Pokemon and is called Pokemon Iridium, is just asking for trouble. These people take their time and usually years to make these games and for what? They are great homages to the source material but ultimately all that work was wasted. They could have made a new IP all their own.

Granted the Pokemon Iridium game was pretty much done and finished and can still be found and played. This Pony game is an MMO and if/when it gets a C&D, it will be gone.

I have no issue with these people making these and think it’s awesome and in a perfect world not dominated by money, they would be allowed to blossom and grow. In this world though they are welcomed by the fans, but the companies that own the IPs don’t see them the same way. They infringe on their property.

The time and dedication they took to make these games could have been better spent creating something new while still taking inspiration from the source.

Taking an idea from another game is completely different from taking the whole idea of a game or other IP. I’m not arguing ideas, I’m arguing whole concepts of an IP.

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starbuck1771

Pokemon itself would be guilty because it is based off of Japanese mythology , As for the my little pony art style it has been used many times. As for the game mentioned in Bree’s story are you sure it’s a knockoff? https://equestriagirls.hasbro.com/en-us My Little Pony : Equestria Girls launched in 2013. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2908228/

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Ket Viliano

Good artists copy, great artists steal.

Benjamin Northrup
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Benjamin Northrup

I love knock-offs, third-party versions, fan projects, etc. I collect the things. Even better when its a knock-off that creates something completely new, screw the IP holders who won’t give the fans what they want.

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Armsbend

I like when they get sued out of existence. I think they should be pursued to the greatest extent of the law. Ruining them if possible.

Imagine if you created something – and then someone else took it – like it was theirs. Because they didnt like the direction the creator wanted it to go in. Fuck that. Make their lives miserable.

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Ket Viliano

That is what the corporations have done to the artists.

“Creator” is a word best applied to authors and artists, not the amalgamated conglomerations of lawyers that claim to own everything.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i only agree in cases where the infringers attempt to profiteer off other’s IP.

like with axanar.

it doesn’t really matter that CBS is fucking star trek in all manner of ways the past decade or so and completely squandering the IP.

axanar people fucked up the entire trek fan film thing for everyone else by trying to turn it in to a for profit business to profit off of. and don’t deserve teh support they get from “fans”. ity doesn’t matter that it has trek veteran actors in it, they should know better. and honestly the production value and quality of performances and writing is crap even by fan film standards.

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steve

I understand that it’s illegal. The Axanar folks should have known better.

I don’t see any moral problem with it. I’d rather see some limits to how far the calf follows the cow. If I take an idea and make a profit then the creator should have recourse within reasonable limits to claim part of the profit, but I reject the premise that a creator should have total control of his/her idea once it is out in the world.

I want to see ideas compete.

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Utakata

So Coke or Pepsi? o.O

Nathaniel Downes
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Nathaniel Downes

Jolt!

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starbuck1771

I kinda like RC as well

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Melissa McDonald

coke > RC > pepsi

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MesaSage

I’m not sure what you’re talking about, but I’m enjoying my time in Laird of the Rings, a high fantasy, epic MMO based in Central Earth.

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Utakata

…with a Halfling named Bill Biggens and an Archwizard named Grandolf as the main NPC’s? O.o

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Melissa McDonald

Or do like Shannara and just blatantly rip off Tolkien by naming a character DURIN. And his surname is Elessedil. Gee, sorta sounds like Elessar, which is the name Aragorn took as King of Gondor.

I’m preparing vats of tar and slicing up some feather pillows if anybody wants to join me… #NoFalseMythology

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Schmidt.Capela

The master of Daredevil: Stick.
The master of the Ninja Turtles: Splinter.

The enemy of Daredevil: a group of ninjas named The Hand.
The enemy of the Ninja Turtles: a group of ninjas named The Foot.

In the original version of Daredevil, a chemical canister splashes the eyes of a kid.
In the original version of the Ninja Turtles, a chemical canister bounces off the head of a kid, nearly hitting his eyes, and lands on the turtles.

For some reason, I don’t think that is a coincidence.

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Hirku

I’m not a fan. And GoBots were first. They stunk, but they weren’t knockoffs.

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Tobasco da Gama

Likewise, Hydrox are the originals and Oreos are the knock-offs.

Eliot Lefebvre
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Eliot Lefebvre

Correct! GoBots were first to market by a full year, beating out the launch of Transformers significantly. The main differences were that Transformers brought in molds from several different Japanese lines (by contrast, GoBots were really just pulled from one line) and generally offered smaller toys with less available on the top end. There’s some fascinating discussions of the rivalry to be found on the Transformers wiki, even.

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Hirku

Heh, all I was going off of were hazy memories of 12-year-old Hirku seeing the Transformer commercials and thinking, “Hey, those are just like GoBots!”

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

yep the jet based tf toys were made with macross molds.

if you want some real shit IP drama look up hamony gold’s strangle hold on rights to macross world wide (or as better known in the west, the abomination that is robotech ><).

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Schmidt.Capela

And then you can add to that FASA blatantly copying Macross designs for its Battletech game line…

BTW, Robotech isn’t that much of an outlier. Back in the day most publishers had no respect, at all, for the content they licensed, and thought Western audiences would never like Asian movies/cartoons/comics/etc without heavy editing.

Heck, there’s even a funny story about this kind of “westernization” where I live.

A big publisher here wanted to make a heavily modified, colored comics version of Dragon Ball, so they sought Shueisha to negotiate the rights. Shueisha allowed them, but with one condition: they would need to also publish the original Dragon Ball manga, unedited and uncensored — black and white, in the original right-to-left reading order, with nothing removed and nothing changed apart from being translated.

The publisher acquiesced; in their reasoning, they would lose money publishing the original Dragon Ball manga, but would be able to recoup it back, and then some, by creating and publishing the heavily modified version they wanted.

End result, the Dragon Ball manga — unedited, uncensored — went to not only be successful, but to become for a while the best selling comic here, surpassing the whole DC and Marvel lineup as well as locally produced comics. It was so successful that the publisher not only gave up on its plans for the modified version, it started bringing more unedited manga into the country.

Nathaniel Downes
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Nathaniel Downes

FASA licensed those designs, a full 14 months before Harmony Gold, and their license was with Studio Nue, who created the Mecha to begin with and, in 2003, had their copyright over the designs held up in court.

Studio Nue made other mecha designs for FASA as well not based on the Macross material. This is one of my favorites of the Studio Nue Battletech designs, their version of the Ostscout:

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starbuck1771

and they all borrowed from Shogun Warriors and Johnny Sokko

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starbuck1771

Proof ? Oh My a Beholder and a Female Orc in the 1960’s. :P

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Schmidt.Capela

Funny story, the Cyrillic language has a variant of the ” O” letter sometimes used when writing Multi-Ocular. A multifaceted O with dots representing irises, which was even included in Unicode (ꙮ). Its first known use was in a 15th century text.

Looks kinda like a Behꙮlder to me.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

the problem with macross vs robotech is harmony gold owns world wide rights to macross outside of japan in perpetuity.

that means no properly localized macross shows/movies, no easily available (discounting ebay and amazon) merch, and no localized video games containing anything macross related.

granted gundam doesn’t have these issues and video games and merch in the west can be hard to come by too. but none the less, at least gundam gets the occasional western localized releases (and usually with the same voice actors of key characters dating back to the original 0079 english dub too, which they are some of the best dubs in anime).

which going back to macross, there’s a strong fan following of macross in the west that has voiced loudly a desire for macross stuff to come here officially and legally. but harmony gold is hostile to this feedback and is planning another robotech show/movie using macross assets again, as they have sweeheart predatory contracted their way into from the original licensing deal.

it’s kind of a unique case in the whole thing. not much at all like other cases you mention in terms of what makes it notable.

Nathaniel Downes
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Nathaniel Downes

No they don’t. They licensed from Tatsunoko, which lost the rights to Macross in 2002. A court case in 2015 established that Harmony Gold’s license to all of Robotech’s licensed property expires in 2021, and they have no right to Macross whatsoever beyond US (not global) distribution as part of Robotech.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

this is good news to me. but still new news.

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Schmidt.Capela

that means no properly localized macross shows/movies, (…) and no localized video games containing anything macross related.

Apart from fansubs and fan translations, you mean.

You know, I’m usually against piracy. But when it comes to the copyright holder refusing to make available the product I want to purchase, a product that is available somewhere else in the world, I make an exception. One that I will often fix if a proper version is released where I live, though (part of the reason I have over 500 games on GOG is because I purchased there most of the games I pirated in my youth).

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Boom

deekay & I were yabbering about those the other day, I concur that GoBots stunk.
Had some crappy Rock Lords myself ;)

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starbuck1771

Remember the Sectaurs from that same era?

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Boom

I had to go out when I noticed this earlier & ive been wracking my brain trying to recollect them.
I do recall having this weird fly toy that I never knew where it came from & this is making me think it was one of those, will definitely be looking for some more info on Sectaurs this evening lol
Any others that you can think of from that same era?

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starbuck1771

oh there were a lot of weird ones back in those days I only remember them because I had a few of the comic books as well back then. I know recently though the have been making dolls and action figures for ElfQuest one of the more racy comics of the 70’s-80’s though. Here is a pic of two of the elves with a He-Man from off Bing. Masters of the Universe is another franchise recently relaunched just like Voltron.

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Kickstarter Donor
Pandalulz

Oh my shit! It blows my mind every time somebody posts a weird, terrible thing from t he 80s, and I remember having them and loving them, and apparently then completely blocking them from my memory. Which is to say that I had a few of these that I completely forgot about.

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Boom

hehe glad I could help unlock that terrible memory :D
They were crap tho lol

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

our conversation came to mind when i read the article :D

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

on the one hand as a musician and visual artist i would like my IP protected from profiteering opportunists looking to make money off my works. (don’t laugh). i mean no one is even buying them and i offer all of them free to download and print or use as they wish as long as they aren’t trying to make money off any of it.

on the flipside my youtube channel is nearly 1000 videos of IP i have literally no right to broadcast in this manner. neither the video game footage nor the music i put along side it belong to me, and even tho with the games usually there’s explicit permission to broadcast the footage in teh EULA or TOS, the music generally certainly isn’t even remotely fair use even tho i don’t participate in teh partner program and don’t even attempt to put ads that i make money from on my videos.

in fact i find it very agreeable that the IP rights holders of the music i use are happy enough to let me use their IP in exchange for putting ads that benefit themselves on my videos. i know that’s a very unpopular position to take in teh age of #WTFU memes and blow hard youtuber partners thinkign fair use means slapping some rambling on top of whatever IP they want to infringe on willy nilly. but if fair use worked that way news outlets wouldn’t lose major judgements for publishing photos they found on twitter without permission now would they?

so i’m of two minds about this, coming from two different perspectives – one as an original artist and musician, and one as a so called content creator in the youtube sense in which the content i “create” is only original content in the reddit sense of that term. which is to say not even remotely “original content”.

so i’d probably argue that in the case of this MLP game as long as they are only covering costs of operation and development with any revenue generation, i’m fine with it, and hope they can come to an understanding the with IP owners from which they clearly derive their work. while on the other hand people like those behind axanaer can fuck right off with their profiteering bullshit even is cbs is squandering the fuck out of star trek in every medium and merch avenue they can come up with.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i also believe in fair and equitable IP law reforms.

i think it’s rediculous how disney has successfully lobbied to keep their earliest IPs protected by getting the protection term limits extended every so many years for so many decades.

i’d also like to see reforms that take into account the realities of the internet in the modern age.

on the other hand i’d still like IP creators and patrons who pay for the rights of other creator’s works’ rights to those works protected, just maybe perhaps to a more realisitic and reasonable degree than legally speaking today is the case.

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Ket Viliano

Any failure to treat Disney corp as a criminal gang, and any failure to incarcerate Eisner and Feinstein for bribery, is an abrogation of the law.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i wouldn’t go that far. they aren’t nestle BP or monsanto.

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Schmidt.Capela

One of the first things that should be done is to sharply reduce the copyright terms. 50 years made sense back when the Berne Convention was signed in the 19th Century; in this day and age, when an independent author can self-publish his work to his whole country (or even multiple countries) in less time than it takes for a book to be printed, I believe a 15 years copyright term, extendable for another 15, would be far more appropriate.

This won’t happen anytime soon, though. Lawmakers are not only in the pocket of big media, they are still scared to death about the damage big media can do to their political careers. And big media conglomerates are the ones profiting from copyright being extended to unreasonable lengths.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

That’s the life of the artists plus 50 years. Which, since 2008, has been life of the artist plus 70 years. This applies to music, plays, books.

For recordings and film, it’s year of publication plus 70 years. This makes sense since people are living longer now than they were in the 19th century.

You may think that an author/musician owning their work for only 15/15 years is better, but I doubt you’d find someone who owns a property they created feeling the same way when they see the thing they created trashed by politicians and ad agencies for their own profit without permission.

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Schmidt.Capela

There’s two kinds of rights related to a work, the copyright itself (i.e, the right to exclude anyone else from making copies of the work) and the moral rights of the author (claiming authorship, preventing it from being associated with a cause the author dislikes, preserving the work’s integrity, etc).

You don’t need to restrict the author’s moral rights in order to restrict the copyright. A work where the copyright is expired but where the moral rights are still valid could be copied and distributed by anyone, but the author could step in at any time to prevent unwanted associations — with a product, with a political party or ideology, etc — or to demand credit for it.

This is somewhat more jumbled in the US — as far as I know, in the US the author is allowed to give up the moral rights he has over his creations, meaning if he gave up on those rights when selling the copyright he has no way to prevent his work from being used to promote products or causes he is against — but where I live the author’s moral rights can never be sold or transferred; any contractual clause that stipulates differently is null and void. So, for example, if an author here sells the rights to one of his songs to a label, and that label licenses it to be used for some cause the author doesn’t want to be associated with, the author can block that license regardless of what the contract he signed when he sold the copyright says.

BTW: the intent of copyright isn’t exactly to reward the author, but to increase the likelihood of new works of art being created. The copyright term should have no relationship with the life expectancy of the author, but rather with how long it takes to explore the created work and recover appropriate compensation for the invested effort. 50 years made sense in the 19th century, when negotiating a publishing deal and distributing the work across the nation could take over a decade, but it doesn’t make sense anymore now that distribution is often close to being instant and free, and a too long copyright term can have the opposite effect on the creation of new works of art due to authors resting on their laurels, so to speak.

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rafael12104

Hmm. Don’t care much. I mean, yeah, if the knockoff really does impact the original IP causing it to shut down or something, then I’d care. But generally it doesn’t bother me. I don’t need Gucci. Give me fake Gucci that is fun to play and I will play it.

Tizmah
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Tizmah

I remember when I wanted a Game boy for Christmas once. My parents ended up getting me one of those Tiger Electronic Games. So yeah I can’t stand knock offs of any sort as they are usually cheap cash grabs. However, if its a quality game then it would be different.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

tiger handhelds aren’t knock offs of gameboy and predate the gameboy by a pretty large margin lol.

Tizmah
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Tizmah

True, but what 8 year old thinks that Tiger Electronics Handhelds werent at the time lol

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

eh i was 8-9 at the time and knew about them before gameboy came out. when gameboy came out was kind of excited for it because of it’s final fantasy games actually lol.

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starbuck1771

Yup they first came out in 1978 which was a whole 11 years before Gameboy which came out in 1989.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

to be fair i’d resent my parents to this day if my campaigning for a gameboy for xmas was met with a tiger handheld instead.

luckily my dad was into all the tech toys in the 80s and 90s (which he bought alot of tech in various areas that would fail to be adopted like lazerdisc minidisc and so on).

but ye, tiger handhelds were wayyyy before gameboy.

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Hirku

Heh, yeah my Atari 2600 was clearly a cheap knockoff of a PS4. What a ripoff.

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starbuck1771

The problem is what isn’t a knockoff anymore? BTW for that screenshot the Bronies will love you. :P

wpDiscuz