The Daily Grind: Is Destiny 2 an MMO?

Massively OP reader Sray suggested we open a can of worms today, and I just happened to have a can opener handy.

“Is Destiny 2 an MMO?” he wondered, noting correctly that “this argument is going to keep happening as we approach the PC launch” in October. We’ve already had people telling us we shouldn’t cover it for – as sure as we’ve had people telling us we ought to cover it more – all on the basis of its MMOness or lack thereof.

Destiny 2 is candles and breakfast food, that I know – but an MMO? It seems to me as much an MMO as classic Guild Wars, another borderline online title whose MMO status people to this day fight over, never mind that the darn thing’s lodged in maintenance mode.

Without having played D2 yet on PC, I’m willing to be convinced by consolers one way or another. Is it an MMO or not, and critically, why?

Every morning, the Massively Overpowered writers team up with mascot Mo to ask MMORPG players pointed questions about the massively multiplayer online roleplaying genre. Grab a mug of your preferred beverage and take a stab at answering the question posed in today’s Daily Grind!
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64 Comments on "The Daily Grind: Is Destiny 2 an MMO?"

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Nathan Aldana

Uh, yes. Its basically shooty bang bang Guild Wars 2. Anyone saying it isnt an MMO is quibbling over the stupidest, narrowest distinctions.

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Angus Mcduff

Guild wars 1 is mostly thought of as an MMO and you only had social zones occupied by players unless they grouped up.

Destiny has players out in the world, even if it’s limited, it is comprised of strangers,with more in social zones.

Since it also has a group finder that pulls players from a population much higher than most current MMOS I think it’s safe to put a massively multiplayer moniker on it.

Elitists will disagree, but that’s what they they will do anyways.

Destiny 2 is a great title that deserves to be in the MMO sphere. I’m sure anyone with friends on Bnet is going to find out pretty quickly just how popular it is.

I’m more curious how the PC community will react to heavy repetition in a month after launch. While the game has excellent gunplay and a decent amount of lore, it lacks alternate end game progresion besides a limited gear treadmill, a raid,and “nightmare modes” of existing dungeons with timers and scaled up enemies.

It’s a great initial joy ride but after a month or so of heavy driving, the countryside is all the same.

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Stropp

I have a few criteria for this.

Does it allow more than a handful of players (>50) to be ‘adventuring’ in the same outdoor area at a time?
Being in a lobby disguised as a city or base doesn’t count as adventuring. If an outdoor area doesn’t have players doing what they do alongside many other players doing what they do, then it’s not a massive multiplayer game. At best it’s a MO, not a MMO.

I also specified outdoor areas because these days a lot of dungeons are instanced and only cater for a group or raid. While a raid might count as massive, a group doesn’t.

A game that only allows for a few participants in a match or whatever doesn’t count as a MMO.

Is the world persistent?
This is a bit tougher, not many actual MMOs offer real persistence, as in if you change something in the world it remains, but most offer at least character persistence in that things like quests and achievements remain assigned to your character. Not just temporary leaderboards.

Is there character progression?
I think this is a big part of the whole MMO experience, building a character. Either levels, skills, or some other form of advancement is necessary for character progression. If a game is just a FPS set in a semi-persistent world. (ie. you just play various maps) then I don’t see progression in a MMO sense.

If those three criteria aren’t included in a game, at least in a rudimentary form, I’d have a hard time calling it a MMO (let alone a MMORPG.)

As for Massively covering it or not. Well, I’d prefer to see you stick to covering MMOs but I’m not all that fussed. If you started covering every single player game under the sun, and stopped covering MMOs, then we might have a problem. ;)

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Sally Bowls

My immediate reaction was “of course it is not an MMO; it is successful!”:-)

IMO, ten years ago, it would clearly not been seen as an MMO.
IMO, ten years hence, it will be seen as an MMO.

So I see it as just how reactionary/progressive you want to be in this continuum of lexicological evolution.

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zeko_rena

Nope

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NeoWolf

Nope, but it has MMO’esque elements I guess.

Frankly I wish it WERE an MMORPG as their stories and lore and incredibly good and I enjoy it when they add more of them, but it is just a shooter with RPG elements making it seem MMO’esque.

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kgptzac

Nothing mechanically massive in Destiny 2. As regular readers should realize that 1) It wouldn’t be an MMO and 2) not being an MMO won’t stop Massively from covering the game.

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Alex Js.

Well, if you consider 4-player teams (for all PvP modes) as “MASSIVE” then I guess so. But it’s kind of a pointless question/discussion, as nowadays many gaming-related sites consider ANY multiplayer game with more than 1 live player as “MMO”, simply because they need something to write about (to earn those Ad $$$).

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Mark Mealman

I’d call it a MMO, mostly because it’s a type of game that appeals to a specific audience: persistent, online, character progression system, and a large “connected” playerbase that can interact(group). So in that respect, MMO players will gravitate towards it and find it interesting.

It and games like it(The Division, Warframe) are in the MMO spectrum which includes sandboxes, single world instances(Eve), and sharded/instanced theme parks.

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A Dad Supreme

“I’d call it a MMO, mostly because it’s a type of game that appeals to a specific audience: persistent, online, character progression system, and a large “connected” playerbase that can interact(group).”
=======
You realize you just described this “MMO”, right?

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Nathan Aldana

…and?

miol
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miol

Without having played D2 yet on PC, I’m willing to be convinced by consolers one way or another.

I guess the decision has already been made, yet its direct predecessor… ;P

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rafael12104

Lol. Nice cap. And it just goes to show, IMO, that devs in general don’t like or want to use the term MMO. The term has been so water down and applied in so many ways that it’s lost it’s meaning.

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Sray

I think most devs avoid MMO as a term because to huge numbers of gamers the term means “World of Warcraft and all the crap that entails” (subscriptions, tedious grinds, unfocused experience), regardless of whether or not that’s actually true.

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Jack Kerras

I hate this discussion with actual, burning rage.

Mechanically speaking, it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck.

Technically speaking, people are going to argue up an down that it’s not a REAL persistent world or that ‘massive’ means more than 24 people or any of a zillion other things.

Here’s the deal, though: design decisions that would have a positive effect on a traditional MMORPG would also benefit Destiny 2, and poor decisions in MMORPGs would also be poor in Destiny 2. Loads of MMORPG mechanics and tropes are at play here. The importance of a healthy playerbase which continues to invest due to recurring server costs are important, just like an MMORPG.

In the strictest technical sense, there is a(n extremely outmoded and pedantic) argument that Destiny 2 is not an MMORPG, and that’s whatever; the games which coined the label are falling farther behind and becoming less important all the time, with WoW being an obvious exception.

In basically every way that matters from a design perspective, Destiny 2 is MMORPG enough. If we need to invent a new term and have lengthy arguments about which specific mechanics disqualify it, then that’s as well as may be; I hate this discussion largely because of its sheer, unrelenting uselessness and remarkable vitality. It is punishingly stupid, and from a gameplay perspective, I feel that many ‘disqualifying’ elements act as iterations on the original design, not as actual disqualifications.

Camping a monster spawn for a day and a half, sitting in a line, is fucking dumb. A huge swath of things about oldschool MMORPGs are fucking dumb, and the fact that oldschool tropes are dying off in droves is only evidence that the genre’s becoming popular and figuring out what kind of moronic shit it should probably not do.

Everyone has this stupid fucking only-labels-matter nonsense ‘discussion’, everyone is unbelievably, psychotically hardened in their position, and why the fuck did this post happen at all?

oldandgrumpy
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oldandgrumpy

I thought that Destiny 2 was a Peer to Peer (P2P) game. Which has its own raft of problems.

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Harry Koala

Can’t really argue with that. I mean, I have my own definition of what an MMO is ( and destiny doesn’t fit it), but all that is saying is what aspects of an online RPG are interesting to me.

I think everyone is fairly clear about what destiny *is* in terms of the nature of the gameplay and multiplayer nature. Arguing about exactly which panel you want to apply to that doesn’t affect what the game is in the slightest. All genre labels are, are a way of saying that this game might have some appeal to people who liked certain other games.

Arguing over whether destiny is an MMO or is a bit like arguing whether a specific date of orange should be classified as red or yellow, and exactly where the diving line between red and yellow occurs.

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Jack Kerras

Agreed. Also, it occurs to me that genre definitions should be WAY less restrictive, especially considering that the term ‘MMO’ is absolute poison to most games. Destiny specifically avoids using this term (because it generally evokes a feeling of mega-tryhard-oldfag MMO players who infuriate even the most patient of us and feel that their clubhouse should remain THEIR CLUBHOUSE), and most of the rest of the genre should and does do the very same thing.

Still, I try to define genres as loosely as possible. If there’s any element of dungeon-diving, a leveling system, a substantial gear-progression curve that takes much more time than the leveling portion does, and the ability to sort of meet up and play with others in the game’s default mode… it sort of works enough for me. Even online aspects of Souls games (although those are decidedly not in the MMO genre) could benefit from lessons learned by MMO developers.

When you have an absolute shit-ton of boxes to tick, then what you get is a single game. In the MMO genre, there is effectively no game as successful as World of Warcraft, and therefore anyone who tries to make an MMO and makes it UNlike World of Warcraft is doing something wrong. This is like refusing to accept a game is like Rogue because it has persistent elements, or because it’s a platformer, or because it’s a shooter, or because it doesn’t use ASCII graphics, but at this point the only thing that defines ‘roguelike’ is permadeath and procedural generation, whiiiich means we get all kinds of crazy, interesting shit.

At this point in MMOsville, we don’t get crazy interesting shit. A decade and a half later, we still get WoW clones with some extra shit bolted onto them, or games that would really benefit more from just being RUST/Ark gankboxes instead of trying to be MMORPGs.

Just to speak about the ‘massively’ point that everyone bitches about: I don’t give Fuck One that Destiny 2 can only hold a few people per instance. People get mad about this because apparently they don’t remember trying to grind BAMs in Tera or just complete any quest in vanilla WoW, because monsters were instantly tapped and useless as soon as they spawned. You know what I don’t like? Games that that are ruined by the presence of other people. That is shitty, and a LOT of MMOs are at their absolute worst when a hundred people are trying to mash their way through the same quest at the same time.

Guild Wars 2 did a lot of things to combat the ‘oh god other people are here UGH’ feeling, and from what I’ve heard, people do absolutely nothing but bitch about meaningful-ness or some stupid fucking absurdity about how getting XP for getting one hit in is a bad design.

It infuriates me that people want to so closely confine these things, when loose associations and very simple, base-level functional similarities are ENOUGH to mean that previous gains and gnosis gleaned from titles in the MMO genre can be applied to decisions made about a specific game. A system which works badly in WoW is likely to ALSO work badly in Destiny 2, despite the fact that there are a lot of mechanical differences, and the opposite is also true: the original game made a TON of mistakes that they could have easily avoided by studying the pitfalls that their particular set of giants (see: standing on the shoulders of) had dealt with time and time again over the course of many years.

So yelling ‘THIS ISN’T AN MMO’ seems like a great way to get people to ignore excellent information that could truly benefit their game. It also seems like a great way to make a whole genre into homogenous garbage as anyone who attempts to make an MMO is shouted straight off the face of the Earth for deviating IN ANY WAY from what people idolize as Perfect Design Principles for any game wishing to bear the MMO mantle.

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rafael12104

Lol. I understand. My pet peeve is not this argument but the other, and IMO, more annoying “What’s pay to win?”

But, I’m glad for this post and discussion. Pulls me out of my morning blahs, gets me reading something other than the horrible news of the day…

Estranged
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Estranged

Rafael, yep, I read about games and play them to escape!

Destiny 2 is a terrific option.

miol
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miol

Since the word “massive” has become meaningless for game’s instances with e. g.: the late assimilation of GW1 into the folds by a playerbase, who just happened to be orbiting actual MMORPGs, yet STILL NOT by its own wiki, which actually still call it a CORPG to this day; another in fact pure popularity contest is mute!

Guild Wars is a CORPG, or Competitive/Cooperative Online Role Playing Game developed for Windows by ArenaNet and published by NCsoft.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars

I’m still waiting for someone to even call CS:GO an MMO too, with its persistent economy and persistent player XP progression! ;P

Just because there are RPG elements involved in a multiplayer game, doesn’t necessarily mean adding a glorified lobby is automatically a “world” continuing to exist offline!

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A Dad Supreme

No.

It’s a third person, 3-6 multi-player RPG shooter game, but a pretty good one. Even just standing around in the game’s main lobby (Earth base), you rarely see more than 10-15 people at one time running around talking to vendors at a time.

Even the PvP portion of Destiny (The Crucible) doesn’t hold more than a handful of people at a time (6 or 8?). Compare that to The Division where you can have many teams and individuals in the PvP (Dark Zone) fighting each other and NPCs at the same time (25 or so)

I said this last week, there is nothing “massively” about Destiny(2) as it relates to the definition of MMO but that doesn’t take away that it’s a good game.

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Utakata

Well that depends on ones definition of a MMO, how much of the goal post they’re willing to move around with it and how much they dig in when someone disagrees with them…

…or tl,dr: Without playing it, I really don’t know. :(

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Knox Harrington

The term “MMO” has become this subjective label that is reflective of the expectations based on past experiences of the gamers using the term. It is used far more figuratively to represent MMORPG’s so if a game like Destiny comes along, the purists scream that it isn’t an MMO, but in the literal sense it very much is. It is an MMOFPS and it has pretty much all the standard core qualifiers that even an MMORPG has. Guilds, groups, raids; all reasons to communicate with other players. What exactly is it missing that disqualifies it from being an MMO? You not liking it isn’t enough.

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Utakata

It really shouldn’t be though. There should at least be generally understood definition everyone can fall back on when in doubt. And one that allows a person to clearly distinguish a MMO from something that is MMO’ish, and something that’s not a MMO whatsoever.

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Jack Kerras

I fundamentally disagree with this assessment.

A lot of things need to be very closely defined, but I feel that insisting on too close a definition here – or in any genre! – is a fantastic way to put one game up on a pedestal and declare that anything which does not adhere to its mechanical choices is invalid.

I’m fine with being specific about things, and the ‘massive’ part of MMOs is widely regarded as ‘can fit hundreds of people in one place’. That’s whatever, as far as I’m concerned; I don’t give a fuck how many people I see at once, because for the most part, traditional MMORPGs start tearing themselves apart at the seams when more than a handful of adventurers is trying to progress through one quest zone.

MMORPGs have a few major, defining things: you gain levels as a tutorial experience. The real game and high-difficulty content unlocks when you are max level. Access to this content and your performance therein is decided by partially how good you are and partially how high above the entrance requirement your kit is. Endgame activities require other players, and specifically require communication and organization between these players, with higher difficulty requiring better organization.

Once you’ve got all of that, you’re basically playing an MMO, to my mind. Even if the name has lost some of its meaning (IE a ‘massive’ number of people waiting for a specific fucking bat to spawn so they can go to a different zone already god damn it all to Hell), and my blurb above defines some VERY broad strokes… I think that’s a good thing.

Broad strokes mean we’re not excluding people who change things up. Loose definition invites change and freshness; judging an entire genre of video games by how closely they cleave to WoW’s formula is a fantastic way to end up with a whole bunch of WoW clones, and I remember the days of MMOs before WoW came out: all sorts of crazy shit happened, it was the Wild West out there, and now it’s been a decade since anything fucking interesting happened.

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Utakata

I strongly doubt that having circular and pointless arguments on the subjectivity of the term is really helpful or productive on the matter. So I stand by my assessment. :)

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Knox Harrington

I agree but many MMO gamers have claimed this once-niche genre as their own so Destiny is like the jock that shows up to chess club and all the nerds are wondering what he’s doing there. He’s there to play chess too. Get over it.

miol
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miol

Since Bungie doesn’t want to call it an MMO, the “jock” actually doesn’t even want to be in the same room, while the “nerds” are trying trick him on getting him a club membership card, just so they perceive themselves as more popular! ;P

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Paragon Lost

The whole mmorpg term is one that actually annoys me since I hardly ever see more than 20 to 50 player characters in any one areas and mostly I don’t see more then 5 to 10 in most. Also when you do see a large group very often the game engine can’t handle it and starts to slog down.

Hell I regularly saw more player characters in one location in the old Gemstone or Dragonrealms MUDS than I ever see in any of the termed mmorpgs. Doesn’t mean that on occasional I didn’t see more than fifty player characters, I’ll point to TSW’s world boss events and how those turned into a slide show for players once it was over 75 players.

My system(a system which had a high end i7cpu, 32gigs of fast ram, and thousand dollar video card no less, which basically ran me around 5k all told) would hold together for a bit longer but it still got to under 20fps at max settings which made timing leaping in to do my finisher with swords and leap backward to use pistols a fun experience before the bosses short range “you die ability went off if you were dps and not a tank”.

My point? I really prefer the older term we used to use on GEnie (back in 1990 to 2000) which was online multi-player rpg or online multi-player game if you were talking something like Air Warrior, MPB3025 (Mech Warrior) etc. It’s apt and is more encompassing fit for what most of us are doing. Massively Multi-player Online Role-playing game just comes off as marketing epeen crap.

So yep in this old online multi-player gamers opinion MassivelyOp should cover Destiny or for that matter a MOBA, an RTS etc. Hell even mobile games that do nothing for me and that I have no interest in should be covered by MassivelyOp. Stop trying to so narrowly define what is covered when almost nothing I ever see really fits the term “Massively”.

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Bryan Turner

I don’t know much details about Destiny 2, however I see enough people I respect calling it an MMO that I agree with them because I vouch for them.

Estranged
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Estranged

I’ve played it daily since launch and still have plenty of new content to complete.

More of a MMO than sitting in town crafting, waiting for a queue to pop.

Extensive lore, gear progression, open world PvE events, dungeons, raids, quests, rep vendors, treasure map, hidden areas to explore, inventory and a personal bank. Guilds. Vast worlds to explore. Oh and hilarious lore NPCs.

Also need to mention the holidays, PvP events and different PvP modes.

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Kevin Smith

The problem with questions like this is part of the name MMO is subjective and not objective. The “massively” term does not have a finite number assigned so people choose a number that they think makes sense to them. One person could say that 100 fits the bill and another 1000, and so on. So with that in mind this question does not have an objective answer and is only subjective. It is basically just opinions without any proof one way or the other.

I think everyone can agree that it is multiplayer and online so no argument there though. Seems people forget that MMO is actually a acronym where each letter has a meaning.

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Sray

Actually, “massive” or “massively” does have a definition, but it’s a commonly misunderstood one. It simply refers to the technological capability of the server handling thousands of connections concurrently: it actually has nothing to do with the presence, or number, of other players, which is what “multiplayer” refers to. The presence of hundreds of other players is just something that we’re used to seeing going back to Ultima Online, but it actually has nothing to do with the “massively” part.

Most MMORPGs divide their worlds up into smaller instances so that players don’t get lagged out by the sheer masses of other players present. Destiny’s instances of a few dozen players are done with smaller caps than in most other MMORPGs because of its twitch based nature. Put 200 players on a single FPS map and I don’t care how good your connection or computer are: you will get killed by the lag monster. Hence, the low instance caps in Destiny.

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Stropp

If that’s the case, some of the old Quake lobbies could be defined as massive too. I hesitate to do that because I think the term, even if misunderstood, has come to mean servers with the capacity for a massive (whatever that means) number of players to ‘play’ in the same area.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i do lament that proper legit mmo’s are no longer much of a thing as we once knew them, but the overton window that is relevant here is well established for the better part of a decade.

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Paarthurnax Dragonhearth

No ….

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Wolfyseyes

Hoo, I could write a blog post about this. Point of fact, I likely will.

As for the question itself: yes, in a manner of speaking, though the shared regions are certainly short of the “massive” part of the acronym. But then, a game one could call Very Big Multiplayer Online (VBMO) doesn’t have quite the same snap.

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nobleeinherjar

I’d say Destiny is about as much an MMO as Guild Wars. Though at least each of Guild Wars’ expansions increased the available questing areas instead of replacing them.

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Sray

It’s a bit strange to be dismissive of the topic I suggested, but to me this is a really stupid question: Destiny is absolutely an MMO; and calling otherwise is splitting the most microscopic of hairs.

Persistent shared online world? Yes.
The ability to interact and/or team up with other players in that world? Yes.
RPG style skill system? Yes.

Sure, it’s also a first person shooter, but nowhere in the definition of MMORPG does it say that a MMO has to be third person with tab-target/cooldown based combat. This game strips away all of the useless junk that is often piled on top of today’s MMOs simply to check off boxes on a list, like crafting or housing, to provide focused experience (combat, combat, and how about a little bit more combat), instead of the scattershot jack-of-all-trades experience that more “traditional” MMOs do to create what I can “the Baconator of MMOs” (all killer, no filler).

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

there’s planetside and planet side 2 which are well established mmo’s that are also shooters as well.

Estranged
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Estranged

Sray, good point. I just login and go to work. Always feel my play sessions are productive. Bungie completely knocked this one out of the park.

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rafael12104

Hmm… Well, Destiny 2 is more of an MMO than Overwatch and Overwatch gets it’s fair share of coverage here. So, I’m not sure why the coverage question comes up. This site chooses to cover certain games that are less MMORPG than others. And rightly so. If it is news worthy, it deserves coverage. Not a fan of preferential treatment, but news value is important.

Destiny 2 is an MMO. Pretty simple really: Online, group game play, interaction with other players on a larger scale, building stats and weapons to advance, and competitive game play. Yup.

What’s all the hub bub?

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Utakata

That’s a good point. Why is *Overwatch being covered here? Or is this another MMO type of game with a massively lobby and multiplayer instances where the action happens similar to Guild Wars 1?

*Note: I don’t play Overwatch either. So I really don’t know.

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rafael12104

Your description of Overwatch is right on point. Overwatch is exactly that. Pretty good for a non-player I’d say.

Estranged
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Estranged

rafael, cause real MMOs should be tedious…

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Rheem Octuris

I would call it an MMO. There are other players in town. There are other players out in the world. The only time you’re by yourself is when you’re doing a mission, and that’s just instancing.

Yes, there is some instancing I think out in the world, so that areas don’t get too crowded. But Everquest 2 had this feature too, from launch.

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Sorenthaz

Games like Guild Wars, Warframe, Phantasy Star Online 1&2, Vindictus, Dungeon Fighter Online and other games in those veins have been considered MMOs. Don’t see why games like The Division and Destiny 2 wouldn’t be considered MMOs even if they don’t explicitly call themselves such.

Now, they’re of course in a subcategory of MMOs in terms of whether or not they’re open world, how many players can be playing together at any given time, etc. but they’re still MMOs.

Also, lol. How do people still argue the ‘not an MMO so it shouldn’t be covered on MOP’ thing anymore since MMOs haven’t been solely covered for a long time here and in the Massively that was.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

add gtao and wildlands to the mix as well. ofc people argue gtao is not an mmo while not a peep from those quarter for some of those games you list that people gladly call mmo’s despite being less mmoish in terms of player populations within the same instance.

Estranged
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Estranged

DK, GTAO is one of the greatest MMOs ever made. Feels like a shared living world.

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Yuri Geinish

Call it Susy if you like, it doesn’t change the contents. The question is pointless.

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BalsBigBrother

MMO sure, traditional MMORPG not so much (imo.)

Most things evolve given enough time and the definitions shift to accommodate that change or new definitions become a thing. Doubly so in a creative technology driven industry it is something that has always happened and will continue to do so. That is all that has happened to the term mmo its definition has widened to accommodate the changes over the years. Eventually a new term will replace it once it has been stretched as far as it can go.

That said I don’t really care what label is given to a game just as long as I have fun playing its all good :-)

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Jack Pipsam

I suppose if GW1 was counted as an MMO, why can’t Destiny?

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

based on watching estranged’s stream of it i’d say it looks to be about as mmo as just about any other “mmo” in the past decade more or less. sure group sizes are smaller and i’ll never swallow calling a six man group content a raid anymore then i ate it up in STO.

but nonetheless if we’re going to accept games like STO and NW as mmo’s and probably even gw2 for that matter than might as well accept destiny 2 as one. nevermind idk how many other games that are called mmo’s without much dispute out there that are just as lacking in instance player population cap departments.

Estranged
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Estranged

DK, I need to stream and record a few more vids at this juncture. Actually have weapons and a load out that suits me. That is a hidden gem with this game. Just testing builds and weapons.

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tom thomas

If WKC and Monster Hunter aren’t MMOs, Destiny is definitely not. The inclusion of a raid is the only thing people think qualifies it to be called one. Destiny prioritizes it’s FPS aspects first and then chooses to augment (even enhance) itself with RPG elements. The final nail in the coffin is the fact that it will never be a persistent world. If you think it would, remember that Destiny 2 is a sequel, and not an expansion. While playing Destiny 2, you lose access to ALL content from Destiny. Even the emotes you bought. And a lot of those emotes were expensive.

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Anthony Dixon

So by your definition, EverQuest 2 is not an MMO.

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tom thomas

Unlike GW2 and Everquest2, Destiny is going to continually produce sequels. The original idea was a ten year game with constant updates akin to MMOs. Things change, and now have an Online RPG shooter. They only thing that differentiates D2 from Borderlands 2 it the online requirement. Even Borderlands 2 had daily loot lock outs in the captain scarlet DLC. In another 2-3 years, destiny 3 will come out and there will be another great reset. It doesn’t need an MMO tag and that’s why Bungie doesn’t refer to it as one. It’s fine as it. It appeals to it’s market. Calling it an MMO doesn’t elevate it’s status. It simply skews the facts.

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Anthony Dixon

So a game with overworld quests, instanced dungeons, instanced pvp, loot, lore and leveling up isn’t an MMO?

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Schmidt.Capela

Worth noting that most MMOs don’t have a persistent world; they have, instead, persistent characters, and sometimes have the world present itself differently according to what the character has done (which isn’t exactly world persistence because the “changes” made by one player can’t be seen by other players, so the world itself isn’t changed).

Reader
Sray

A persistent world is a game world that exists whether you’re online or not, and Destiny definitely qualifies as that.

Estranged
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

Right, clan mate actions influence rewards, regardless of participation. Really is cool. Solo players can still contribute to clan XP. If the clan completes a raid, the solo player still receives the weekly reward (not boss loot). Same goes for group PvP activities, etc. Persistence. Everything you do matters.

deekay_plus
Reader
deekay_plus

so guild wars 2 isn’t an mmo because it’s a sequel and progression from gw1 didn’t carry over making it non persistent?

pretty sure up until the upcoming monster hunter online, MH games have been pretty much singleplayer as well so not sure how that relates. not sure what WKC is.

tera is pretty much dumbed down shooter with mmorpg tropes tacked on and no one argues it’s not an mmo despite it’s short comings vs more massively multiplayer and sandy games in the genre. and there’s plenty of dumbed down shooter combat games out there in the genre over teh past 7 or so years as the popularity of so called “action combat” has flouished on social media and mmo fansite forums.

venatis
Reader
venatis

I’d consider it an MMO. It’s online only, has group content and allows you to play PvE content with other players and has clans. That sounds a lot like an MMO to me.

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