Guild Wars 2 is now selling waypoint unlocks in the cash shop

With today’s update, ArenaNet has begun selling waypoint unlocks in the Guild Wars 2 cash shop.

“You know the drill. You’re trying to reach East Nowhere to stop a rampaging whatever from eating Fill-in-the-Blank Village, but you’re new in town. Good news*—we’ll instantly register you at all the waypoints in a region of your choice. Buy the Waypoint Unlock Box to unlock one of the regions on our list, or buy the Central Tyria Waypoint Unlock Package for all of them.”

The unlock packs run 600 gems per region, or 2000 gems for all five regions (just the original five Tyrian regions, not Heart of Thorns or Path of Fire locations). 2000 gems, we’ll note, costs about $25 in real money. Why would you buy this, when you can just run around and get each zone’s waypoints in a few minutes atop your shiny expansion raptor? Convenience, we suppose – it’d make mapping that much faster back in the old world for sure.

Want to get caught up on our Path of Fire coverage? Don’t miss the first and second parts of Tina’s launch diary and my own top five/bottom five editorial from last week.

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154 Comments on "Guild Wars 2 is now selling waypoint unlocks in the cash shop"

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Tizmah
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Tizmah

This is great news for alts. I always dreaded having to get all the waypoints again 8 different times.

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MKlwr

Yeah, but does it also give you the XP you’d get for discovering all those way points?

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Bannex

This is just bad business, they should’ve offered this before POF. With the new mounts, exploring is way more fun than using waypoints.

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Annoyed badger

and this is why I’m never touching an Anet product ever again. Treat your players like shite, and I dont play your games.

I was shocked waypoint unlocks was not automatic with the level boost….now we see why.

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Bannex

Honestly, this is a hilarious line in the sand. I’m sorry but if this is the gaming hill you choose to die on, I’m shocked you’ve made it this far

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Krista Allen

This may not be P2W, but, it does say something about the game’s player base and mindset….there is little to no progression in this game anyway, so might as well take out the little bit that was there and make money off it…shrugs

7BitBrian
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7BitBrian

Unlocking 5 year old waypoints is progression now?

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Ukrutor

If you don’t have them unlocked yet, then yes, unlocking them counts as progression because it makes your character better.

If you already DO have them unlocked, you don’t need to concern yourself with it. ;)

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Dobablo

I can understand wanting to unlock the waypoints. It is a pain trying to complete things on alts that have never been anywhere near a part of the map. From a $/hour perspective it is cheaper to buy than walk through the world unlocking them but grrrr this does feel like a mickey-taking rip-off.

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Frank White

This is a good point. After exploring all the same maps repeatedly for multiple characters, it become more of a chore than anything having to keep doing it. Although, obviously I’d prefer to have a FREE option for this after your first or second or third character. ;)

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Xephyr

Don’t see what all the fuss is about in these comments, heck even in the gw2 subreddit I haven’t seen much discussion about this at all and that place is full of drama llamas. Waypoints were always super easy to unlock, it’s the hearts that make people wanna gouge their eyes out when it comes to map completion. You can easily unlock every waypoint in the game in a couple of hours the regular way, and even faster now with mounts.

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Right? It’s a joke to run through to get WPs, the only players upset are new ones who don’t understand it’s worthless.

It’s like a flight path unlock for old WoW zones. It doesn’t complete hearts or quests or POIs or jump puzzles etc. If you were going to 100% complete the zones this is a useless item since you wont actually be doing that any faster.

The only people buying this will be the old players (and only the ones with too much cash) who don’t want to run to Sparkfly Fen a 10th time on an alt.

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Lethality

/woosh

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Lethality

First, shame on developers for enabling this, rather than fostering gameplay that a multi-player open world in the RPG genre can provide – all for a quick buck.

Second, shame on players that want and purchase this. I mean… why even play the game?

If you peel away all of these things, you’re left with even more “checklist gameplay” than you have now. If all you have to do is click to appear somewhere else, the value of what you are even doing completely dematerializes, and eventually you’re left wondering where the fun was “supposed” to be – because you’re just doing chores.

Developers and players – STOP THIS.

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Bhima Jenkins

I don’t see what the fuss is about on this one. Sometimes you just want the WPs for a new alt that you are playing and you just don’t have the time to run through all of Sparkfly Fen to get to Tequatl, etc.

How that devolves into not fostering gameplay is beyond me. GW2’s vanilla maps are over 5 years old now. This is much ado about nothing.

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Bruno Brito

There ever won’t be a time where you don’t blame a player, will there?

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BalsBigBrother

To the people who are saying this is a pay to win item I would be genuinely interested to know what the win part of that is in your view specifically for this item? There are a lot a generalisations given below but no one has honed in on this item.

What exactly is someone who uses this winning over someone who plays the game and unlocks the way points manually. They save time maybe but in a game that doesn’t require a subscription so has no real time pressure to complete what is the win there?

In the part of the game this unlock affects there is no advantage given as there is no competition in the first place and so what is there to win. This isn’t sarcasm or anything I am genuinely interested in knowing specifically in regard to the way point unlock what the actual objection is or what the win is by using it over someone who doesn’t.

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Utakata

I think it’s understood that many players do not like unfairness in general. Especially in games where it can become competitive. I understand in a MMO sphere that cannot always be achieved or possible. But there should be a least an attempt by developers to make the game as fair as possible. As oppose to exploiting the boundaries for the quick buck.

But if you are okay with that, then there is not much else I can say to convince you otherwise. Personally for me though, it’s a question of how those boundaries are pushed and how much I can live it before it gives me incentive move onto greener pastures. Hope that helps.

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BalsBigBrother

I am not asking anyone to convince me of anything I am asking for folks to explain their perspectives and issue with this particular item in more detail. I laid out what I thought in more detail with regard to GW2 specifically and threw in some pointed questions to make folks think. However I was essentially asking for more details from folks so I can understand other perspectives a little easier rather than sifting through all the generalisations.

If I understand you correctly your issue is not with the actual item discussed in this article rather that you feel it will normalise putting items like it in cash shops in other games where it might have more of an impact than it will in GW2. Kind of like the devs saying “if they can monetise that, what could can we get away with in our game?”

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Utakata

I suspect it depends on how this *”item” is used and where it gives an advantage to someone will be the question many will likely ask of it. I think then you can safely surmise where and when the unfairness may apply to this specifically. I don’t play the game nor I have played the game enough to give you a definite answer. But it seems to me a bit problematic that there is now a way to circumvent one of the basic travel mechanics in the Guild Wars franchise for the right RMT.

*Note: Is it an item? I thought this was an additional account service much like a max level character boost. o.O

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BalsBigBrother

The thing I am having a hard time with is what the perceived advantage is?

It isn’t doing anything you can’t do yourself in game within a few hours if you apply yourself. Even if you take your time and it takes you a few weeks to unlock all the way points I still can’t see what advantage is given to someone who unlocks them all at once after the paying for this.

Oh and yes it is an item you click to apply to the character carrying it just like the level boost thing is an item in game you click to apply. At least that is how it works in GW2 in any case :-)

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Utakata

It’s not a perception; it’s an actual. That is, what can be done within hours to weeks can be done in an instance when service is purchased account wide. It is an obvious advantage to the player who made the purchase. Or why would it be sold in the first place, if no advantage is given? That simply wouldn’t make any sense.

However, you seem to think otherwise, to which I am here not to convince you from. So I am going to agree to disagree on this, and move on from here. And leave you to freely think whatever you want about it. :)

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Sally Bowls

I don’t care about P2W and think almost all P2W determinations are affected by what the poster thinks of the game far more than the item/service in question.

The ultimate nihilist argument is that someday you, I, and GW2 will be dead and so nobody was advantaged. Since you can buy a character boost and BiS gear from the cash shop, there is a further argument that there is no advantage. But at least for me, saving time is a benefit even if one can argue it is not an advantage.

Here are some benefits that provide also provide “no advantage” since more time would help.

1) I purchase an upgrade where I get triple the amount of resources from nodes. clearly not an advantage since you could mine three times as many nodes and get the same resources.

2) I purchase the upgrade where I triple my mount speed. clearly not an advantage since you could merely take three times as long to get there.

3) Say in the next expansion, only people who spend 1200 gems/$15 for the monthly sub get to use the fast travel points? clearly not an advantage since you could take the time to walk/ride there.

4) What if I spent 2000 gems and I always went to the front of the login queue and logged in ten seconds quicker. clearly not an advantage since you could wait an additional ten seconds.

At the end of the day, if the customers think it is an advantage, it is an advantage, even if you are technically correct that it is not an advantage.

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Utakata

But it is an advantage wholly, arithmetically and legally. There is no way of getting around that beyond moving a whole lot of goal posts “creatively”. And the Waypoint wavering service is in the same vein with max level boosting and multi-boxing. It gives the player distinct advantages over those who don’t use those services.

The question becomes how much advantage is given over other players. And how are those who do not purchase or use those services are willing to put up with it. With some this may have nominal effect. With others it may cross a line. But of the end of day, if it brings in the devs the bacon, we will have to learn to live it…or move onto greener pastures. /shrug

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BalsBigBrother

Sorry Utakata but I am going to have to disagree with you on that first paragraph completely. While it might not be your intention you are doing what others have done below and generalised a lot without naming any single advantage that using this item will give.

You are saying it gives an advantage but not saying what it is. That is the thing I am trying to get folks to drill down to but everyone is dancing around it.

I don’t mean to pick on you and please don’t take my replies in that vein I just want to see some actual clarity of answer. So I can try to understand the opposing points of view (if not actually agree with them) and for that specifics are needed :-)

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Utakata

I already have specifically named it:

“That is, what can be done within hours to weeks can be done in an instance when service is purchased account wide. It is an obvious advantage to the player who made the purchase.”

…it just appears you are choosing not to agree with it. o.O

I think there’s another elephant in the room that needs to be addressed that maybe the source of our disagreement though. So allow to make this very clear: The issue of allowing to sell the services or items in a game to give players ingame advantages is a developer issue, not a player one. That is, if a player purchases and uses the services that allow him or her advantages, they are free to do so without any guilt or remorse. As they have been given permission by the game company to do so. So if it’s there, the player has the money and wants it, more power to them!

Or tl,dr: Whales exist because developers allow them to exist.

I hope this clears up the issue that I am having is not personal one I hold against other players. I don’t. But rather one I have with the developers for introducing it. So if you want to buy that Waypoint booster, go knock yourself out! I won’t think any less of you nor should I if you did. /wiggles pigtails <3

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BalsBigBrother

It is not a case of me agreeing or disagreeing I am still trying to drill down to the core of your position. So let me try one last time

Time saving is a convenience for someone who has limited time. If someone who is short on time uses this item it ensures they can enjoy their time in a way they enjoy. Yay for them. That convenience doesn’t manifest into an “obvious advantage” though or at least it is so obvious I am overlooking it.

The part of GW2 this item works in is pve, what anyone else does has pretty much zero impact on anyone else.

So if you think someone saving time is an advantage how does it affect me? how does it put me at a disadvantage? Am I suddenly thinking oh my gosh random person has more way points than me, panic. No I continue doing what I was doing before and random person continues doing what they are doing, probably completely oblivious of each other.

I am just trying to figure out why you think saving time in a game that has no competition for resources or no racing to complete anything is an advantage. Why is selling an item that only has any impact on one person (the buyer) is such a bad thing.

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Utakata

Well you have my position. I am calling it an advantage. You are calling it something else. (Or least something I would define also as an advantage.) And I see no convincing or compelling argument or evidence to call it anything else. So once again, I’ll agree to disagree and move on from there. Thank you for your time. :)

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BalsBigBrother

I still do not understand your reason for thinking some advantage is gained over another player by saving time specifically in regard to pve in GW2.

However, fair enough and I agree its time to move on.

Thank you for indulging my questions over the past few days and thank you in return for your time :-)

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Utakata

Anytime! <3

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George Sweatman

I’m more upset that they didnt use this store concept to sell something actually useful.

I’d pay double the gems to unlock all Hero Points. Maybe even triple for HoT zone ones.

possum440 .
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possum440 .

It is what it is. A company using a plan to make more cash. Nothing surprising about it.

What is still surprising are the people still using the term, Pay to Win. What “Pay to Win” actually means is YOU, do not like the way someone else plays the game you are playing.

YOU, get bent out of shape someone has cash and can do what they want in their game and play the way THEY want. YOU are a busy body and stand on a soapbox and wag your finger because YOU think buying things instead of grinding for them is sacrilegious.

The best thing for gamer’s to do is either speak with their own wallet on issues like these or simply keep your mouths shut in relation to how someone else plays a game regardless of whether you like it or not, that is your problem, being a busy body and judgmental, no one else’s.

I do not play MMO’s anymore because I do not like the EULAS and many of the business models. I could care less if someone buys everything in the game verse me playing a game to get the same item. They paid for the game, it’s their dime, and their time. It doesn’t affect you except for your bent out of shape attitude.

Busybody gamer’s that worry about how others get something playing a game are the real issue, not some company adding yet another money making item to their store.

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Ket Viliano

What is in the EULAs that bugs you?

Honest question, I could think of a lot, but I really what to know what other people think.

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Mr_Planthead

The people complaining do realize you can exchange gold for gems and not have to plop down any money right? As someone with a bunch of level 80s this would be something useful for me because there’s no way I’ll run every one of them to get the random waypoints anymore

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peor togs

It isn’t pay to win, so I support this. Any monitization that doesn’t screw balance and keeps us away from real power imbalance is ok in my book. Keep the convenience purchases, avoid the imbalance and the game won’t get screwed up.

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life_isnt_just_dank_memes

Stuff like this isn’t for me so I don’t buy it.

You know what irks me more about GW2? Their lack of earnable or craftable armor sets in the last couple years. There are some cool sets in PoF but not even close to enough.

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Jennifer Yaner

Couple this with the level 80 boost and you can have practically everything done in the game in 5 minutes. I’m a long time GW2 vet and this really irritates me for some reason. Isn’t one of the main staples of GW2 exploration? I have no problem with cash-shops and always thought GW2 had one of the best iterations of a cash-shop. This is starting to push it now though. Add on the fact Path of Fire has no crafting stations in any of it’s maps unless you buy a special pass and we are starting to see some bad practices. They’ll be selling legendaries next.

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Bhima Jenkins

The vanilla GW2 maps are over 5 years old now. This is just not a big deal at all and its really meant as a convenience purchase for:
1) new players wanting to push through the vanilla story so they can get to HoT/PoF
2) Vets that have a new alt they want to play but they don’t want to go do the WP marathon on yet another character that they’ve already done so many times before

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Terren Bruce

This is really aimed at vets who have already been through these zones many times before. They’ve already explored them. New players will still be exploring the old zones to level up regardless if they have a waypoint unlocked or not.

Unless you’re a player who just level boosted to PoF. Which is fine. The original zones are 5 years old now and are not GW2’s best open world content. If they held up you wouldn’t need to include a level up boost with PoF in the first place.

Honestly I suspect this is more about draining gems that vets have already bought with gold or got with the ultimate edition of PoF than it is an effort to make money directly.

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Bryan Turner

I find it amazing how many snarky comments I’ve see from people that odds are have dabbled in many a cash shop, I ‘ve got a bag full of stones here to throw around this glass house.

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Ket Viliano

Did you buy those stones in a cash shop?
:P

I threw 6.25 at World of Tanks, because it was actually a decent game. I really ought to throw some money at the Path of Exile, they do deserve to be paid, as they have done a good job.

It’s really the abusive and obnoxious stuff that is bad, such as ArchAge.

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Bryan Turner

I’ve bought roughly a dozen Outfits, numerous inventory unlocks, the occasional batch of transmutation stones when I was running low, probably at least $200 worth of gems I just converted over to gold, yeah it looks like a lot how ever this game has no subscription model and if you look at the 4 years I’ve played this game it’s probably less than $15 a month on average.

To be honest though I’m in a good place economically now so it really isn’t unheard of for me lately to drop $50 every month and half in the Gem store because quite frankly this is my hobby, it’s what I do for fun, and I can afford that now.

Years before this during Wrath I spent tons of money on character transfers during Wrath of the Lich King because I’d have to comb the servers for new Morning Raiding guilds since I worked nights (and still do).

I don’t see my self as a whale per say but considering my father used to blow hundreds of thousands of dollars on classic cars, race cars, race bikes, and antiques I’d say I’ve got a lot of restraint :D

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yoh_sl

Likewise and agreed.
Terrible and shitty business practices coming out of Arenanet? Shock and bloody horror.

It’s because of shit like this I only give money to ‘ethical’ developers.
Like GGG with Path of Exile. (which I’ve incidentally given the most by far)
You don’t have to be morally bankrupt to make money in this industry.

Sadly, far to many take the low road.

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MeltWithYou

Man if you want to spend that kind of cash, go for it…shits b2p, if theres a market for it, then theres a market for it. If youre a new player, I’d suggest old school full clearing every zone at least once…some of the vanilla zones are pretty great.

miol
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miol

Since the introduction of those closed off VIP areas, with all stations and other commodities in one place, I’m not surprised.

And compared to the ~$25 32-slot bags (if you want to buy everything to craft it instantly), that’s nothing! ;P

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Bryan Turner

Combined with the lvl 80 boost its actually a better deal than WoWs boost since theirs doesn’t include all the flight paths.

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Leiloni

In WoW you can get flight path heirlooms for in game currency. Anyone with a high level character can easily buy them and then get free flight paths for all their alts. That’s much better than paying cash for it.

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Bhima Jenkins

Oh don’t worry… Blizzard gets their cash anyway.

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Bryan Turner

I was talking value and convenience for your dollar, I’ve got map completion on 2 characters in GW2, at many times I’ve also lvled WoW characters from scratch to cap.

If I’m going to pay to boost a character, which I have, then I want the most convenience per dollar my money can buy and now that happens to be a lvl 80 with Full WP unlocked which is more valuable then a WoW lvl what ever it is now with a minimal FPs unlocked.

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Michael18

I’m surprised this hasn’t been in the shop before. In a hop-in/hop-out MMO such teleport unlocks would be among the first items I’d put in a cash shop.

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zeko_rena

Don’t know what this is, are they effectively kind of like flight paths in WoW only instant transport in this case?

I wonder where I put this game, I know I originally bought it on disc but was bored with it in about five minutes, come to think of it, it may be the last game I bought that was not digital.

Polyanna
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Polyanna

From the people who brought you an achievement grind to unlock . . . the auto-loot checkbox in the prefs window . . . that doesn’t even work anywhere you actually would want it to.

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kalamari_

hate this WP package. whats next? unlock all hearts in core tyria for 4k gems? ugh.

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Baldigar Stumblefoot

What matters, I think, is the intention behind them selling this. I don’t think it’s for the sake of making map completion easier, I think it’s so people can play on more characters without having to grind at map completion again and again, just to enjoy new builds. If that is the actual logic behind it, then you don’t have to worry about them adding the packages for anything but WP, because WP’s are the only thing that is NEEDED to be able to, for example, join a boss train group, or whatever, where you need quick access to numerous maps all over the world to be able to keep up. Sure, you could use TP to Friend, but you won’t want to use such valuable items super frequently, so I think it’s fine.

I honestly don’t have an issue with this. Core Tyria isn’t that important anymore to most of the major and recent grinds , so it doesn’t really matter in my opinion in terms of giving a competitive advantage. And plus, it’s far too expensive in my opinion to be worth buying for only a single character. I mean, maybe if I was just starting the game, $25 might be tolerable for my first, but if it’s my first, I’d also probably be fine with doing it manually because I wouldn’t be as bored by it as on follow-up completions. And I wouldn’t know if I’d want to buy it anyways, cause I wouldn’t know how important is was to have and so on. If it was like an account-wide unlock (which I do think would be unacceptable because it would undercut the value of Gifts of Exploration permanently), then I would maybe be willing to buy it, even if it was like $50, but for just 1 character, I don’t ever make these kinds of purchases on more than 1 character on my account, so it’s irrelevant for me. (For example, I’ve only bought any additional bag slots on my main.)

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Rottenrotny

I love GW2 and their cash show isn’t that bad compared to SWTOR etc..

But still this is P2W

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Bryan Turner

I was curious, are you a musician, I came across some one with the same name once in my travels online?

Part of Psyclon 9?

Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen people with my name as well but judging by the photos I assumed you might be the same person.

If so it’s nice to see people still making something that resembles Industrial Metal these days.

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Rottenrotny

Shhhhhh I’m trying to be incognito!

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Alex Willis

How so?

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Rottenrotny

ANY advantage/buff acquired in-game in exchange for IRL $ = P2W.

This includes: stat gear, level boosts, +XP potions and in this case waypoints etc.

If you and I both start at level 1 but you spend $100 on the cash shop and I spend zero you would progress through the game with more advantages and this does not lend itself to an immersive RPG experience. Everyone should be on equal ground and progress their character with in-game accomplishments, not a Visa.

Hell, some player’s only motivation to play is to collect outfits and play dress up. To that player’s point of view even cosmetic items in the cash shop might be considered P2W.

This post brought to you in part by IMO.

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Bhima Jenkins

TIL anything in any cash shop is pay to win by your definition.

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Bruno Brito

So, we’re going with the “immersion” buzzword.

Got it.

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yoh_sl

This definition it far too broad and is therefor useless.

Make not mistake, Arenanet are the scum of the earth and have unethical business practices, but paying to skip content (as loathsome as it is) isn’t paying to win. Their not winning anything.
Unless it has some clear widespread effected on PvP, it really doesn’t count.

Your effectively ‘crying wolf’ with your argument. Criticizing something that isn’t every really there, rather then what is there. And what is there is plenty unethical.
You don’t have to resort to stupid arguments.

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Rottenrotny

Today I learned that nothing is subjective and no one’s opinion is valid except for yoh_sl’s. (◔_◔)

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Greaterdivinity

By this measure, I don’t think there’s a single MMO in existence that isn’t P2W. You’ve pretty much literally declared the entire genre P2W.

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Rottenrotny

Sadly, it kinda is. This was not always the case. Early to mid-2000s MMOs didn’t have cash shops.

If I’m playing D&D I don’t say to the DM: “Here’s 5 bucks, can I get a few hundred XP?”

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miol

I’m sorry, but already way before 2000s, privately selling/buying accounts (which is impossible to police!) would mean P2W, according to your standard! o.O

Just because studios said to themselves: “If you can’t win, join them!”, does it mean every single type of cash shop is categorically P2W, especially if there is virtually no ongoing vertical progression you wouldn’t easily be to catch up to!

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Rottenrotny

We all have our own ideas of what is P2W and what isn’t.

Many insist that P2W has to involve something that directly affects a player’s performance in PVP or they “aren’t winning anything”.

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Peregrine Falcon

An example of Pay 2 Win is “+5 sword available only in the cash shop and the best sword available in-game is only +4”. That’s an example of P2W.

Sorry, you don’t get to just redefine terms or words to mean whatever you want them to mean. Otherwise no one knows what you mean whenever you say anything.

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Rottenrotny

k (◔_◔)

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Michael

So by your logic, GW2 has been P2W since day 1. Just want to make that clear.

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Rottenrotny

I don’t recall what the cash shop had in the beginning, but if it included any of that yes.

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Indigo Salma

Make it for the whole account and i’l buy it , not just for one character , no thanks.

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Baldigar Stumblefoot

While I would love it and would buy it, this, I think, would pose an actual issue. It would make farming for Gifts of Exploration quite a bit easier (~15-20% already done, plus the quick travel to boost speed of every other part of it), for every character made on your account for forever. That’s dangerous, because it can undercut the value of the Gifts of Exploration by different amounts based on if you are an account with this unlocked or not. It may ultimately still be sufficiently minimal, and could potentially just benefit consumers for the non-Bound legendaries market by dropping the prices a bit, but it’s something that I think is more valid of a complaint than the current per-character model. As it is, the reduced value of the Gifts is offset by the large upfront cost of the upgrade itself that it will likely not warrant profit-driven farming any more than what other players would do. Not only Gifts, but also just the chests for map completion, which can drop BLC Keys, making those a bit more farmable, which surely ANet wouldn’t really want.

Maybe an account-wide 1 WP per map unlock would be less impactful and more balanced, and I’d be fine with that, personally. Would still help a ton, especially for getting to some of the later maps in a long, linear chain, such as Cursed Shore. Less useful, of course, but a better compromise IMO.

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Nathan Aldana

this. if I can make a new character and teleport wherevere the hell I wanna level on the fly, Id pay for that.

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Dug From The Earth

Here… a level 80 character on the house for buying PoF!… oh… too bad 90% of the world is still closed off to you trying to travel around quickly… unless you wanna spend some more money, eh?? EHhhhhhhh??

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Bryan Turner

Meanwhile WoWs unlock doesn’t include Flight Paths, I should no I boosted a Warrior last year when my Demon Hunter got merged.

If you’re going to make a snarky comment at least be well informed so that some one like me doesn’t school you for being ignorant.

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Bryan Turner

Yes but I can’t buy that with money, I suppose I could buy a WoW Token how ever that would cost me more money than the 45 dollars it would cost me to buy a level 80 Character with full WP unlocks.

To repeat my self again from my first reply to you (I know you haven’t seen it yet) I already have done map completion 2 times in GW2.

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Greaterdivinity

I feel like one of the only ones not bothered by this. I don’t have any issues with this, even though it undermines some of the core design that was included in the Manifesto and all that. But that got thrown out years ago and we’ve shifted directions, and this is very much in-line with that new direction.

Doesn’t bother me at all, I can continue to unlock all the WP’s the old fashion way without any issue.

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Bryan Turner

Doesn’t bother me either.

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Dug From The Earth

I wish they did it on a per waypoint basis option

Maybe there is a specific WP you need to get to… click it, select “buy access for 10 gems”.

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Tobasco da Gama

At least it’s not, like, oh give us a buck and we’ll unlock a waypoint but if it’s a waypoint you’ve already unlocked you’ll get some WaypointBucks that you can eventually spend to unlock a waypoint of your choosing once you get enough of them.

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Ket Viliano

Cash Shop on the range:

Where the marks and the gold sellers play,

Oh, give us a buck,
we think your a shmuck
and our cash shop is full of whales, all day…

That’s all I got for now, need more work.

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Nathan Aldana

what bothers me is the price.

Well, thatm and people waxing poetic about how in their day gamers were real men who earned everything via pure gumption and pride and how entitled younger gamers are, like old fogeys like me are somehow the fucking pinnacle of manliness and gamering.

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borghive

Blah, this is why I hate modern gaming monitization.

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Nathan Aldana

I could think of far better reasons to hate modern gaming monetization. Like stuff that literally manipulates human responses to unpredictable stimuli to wring infinite money out of people with poor impulse control.

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Matthew Riddle

I always wished the waypoints were account-wide unlocked. I’d drop $25 if I could do that. $25 per character seems not a good deal.

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Dug From The Earth

For 25 bucks, it NEEDS to be account wide, otherwise its not worth the money.

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Sray

Play the game for free.

Give us money so you don’t have to.

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Nathan Aldana

Play the game for free (with a lot of downsides that dont apply to people with paid accounts. Get condescended to by paying players regardless as a side feature)

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Sray

My point is that exploration and discovery is supposed to be the point of playing this specific game.

What’s yours?

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Bruno Brito

That the game has raiding now, and that made open world content irrelevant?

You really think people like to roll through old world crap on their majority?

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Michael

Raiding is such a small part of what GW2 is I don’t understand why this comment exists. There is as much raid content in GW2 as a single WoW raid tier. There are plenty of people doing open world content, more then any other type of content in the game.

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Bruno Brito

“Small part”

Yet, is now the balancing pivot for the PvE system, everything PvE related now spins around raiding.

Open World content is content, but you can also clear that in blues, so, your point is?

Anet doesn’t balance for OW Content. Only in specific occasions ( world bosses and not even those are well balanced anyway ).

You can fry people as a FT engineer on OW areas. Do that in a raid and see yourself being useless.

There’s nothing “small” in raiding. EVERY game has a small raiding population, yet PvE always comes back to raiding.

You believing otherwise doesn’t make it less true.

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Arktouros

This is a non issue to me.

As someone with 20 characters, usually if I’m unlocking waypoints it’s because I want the XP since my mastery XP is capped out which in Central Tyria yields a lot of Spirit Shards. This is incredibly easy now with mounts, especially the Skimmer which just glides along any surface without fall damage and with Adroitness has a massive evasion bar/skill. When you get into the later game of making Legendaries and other big things Spirit Shards can get pretty tight (and you can monetize them as well if not). I don’t feel I would ever pay for this just like I wouldn’t use Proofs/Notifications of Heroics for hero points from WvW for the same reason.

Furthermore if you take a good hard look at GW2 and the effects of spending money in game you’ll realize how little this matters in the context of the game. People the first week of the game were dropping down $100s to buy materials to craft their way to 80 and have full Exotics. People can still do that to this day. Most people argue that isn’t pay2win because you have no inherent advantage over other people who did it legitimately. That same logic applies to waypoints because how does people being able to move around on a character really impact your game play (and certainly zero impact to competitive game modes like WvW or SPvP).

So this is a way for them to make money off people who are willing to pay for a convienence and has little to no impact on other players. If they can get $30 out of someone (because there’s no way to get 2000 gems without spending at least $30) for this I say good for them.

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_o_

i have no issues with this either. I have 29 characters, most have almost no world map completion at all. I don’t consider it an advantage for somebody else to buy this. It’s literally people complaining because they’re bored and stupid.

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Alex Willis

Yeah. It’s about as far from P2W as you can get.

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Paragon Lost

No Alex Willis, actually it isn’t about as far from P2W as you can get. If they didn’t have any items in the cash shop that gave you mechanical in game advantages, that would as far as you could get from P2W. This actually is a P2W item. There are quite a few in GW2’s shop I might add.

Though apparently you and others are turning a blind eye to it. Though like Arktouros it doesn’t bother me really since it has become the norm and since i’m a whale player I’ll spend the money without blinking an eye if there is something I want. Hell I’ve spent about a grand in Lotro in the last six months and when I am playing GW2 I tend to do the same since GW2 allows me to actually buy gold. (shrugs)

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Bhima Jenkins

The biggest defining factors of being P2W:
1) Can ONLY get it in the cash shop OR
2) Game design is consciously made to be tedious or grotesquely time consuming unless you buy some item in the cash shop

This item does not qualify for either of these criteria. Its REALLY easy to get around Tyria already, and has been for the last 5 years (criteria 2) and you can get the WPs by walking by them, so it doesn’t meet criteria 1 either.

For it to be P2W, the game would have to not actually have WPs unless you buy them. OR, the time/difficulty of getting to a WP was so onerous it would force most gamers to buy this. Sorry, you should try some real P2W games like Neverwinter and the vast majority of Asian grinders to REALLY understand cynical game development that is truly P2W.

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_o_

how exactly does this give you an advantage? by taking away the exp from those waypoints that you could use to level up? By allowing you to bypass using a single teleport to friend (of which I have more than a full stack since the game keeps on giving them to me). By saving you literally 1 min of your time to walk from one end of the map to the other?

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Mr_Planthead

What cash shop items give you an advantage in game? Repair canisters? Outfits that don’t affect your stats? Unlocking waypoints doesn’t let you win anything, it just saves time

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Sally Bowls

YMMV, but I see a new player buying a character boost and using gems to be able to craft full ascended gear as an advantage in game. IMO, a level 80 with ascended gear has an advantage over a level 1 with level 1 gear. For we hoarders, maximizing the bank, bag, resource and shared slots along for all 32-slot bags would also be a considerable convenience.

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_o_

1. You realise a lot(all?) ascended gear requires time gated components in order to craft yes?

2. When do you see a level 80 with full ascended gear go 1v1 vs a level 1 with level 1 gear other than WvW? So they get an advantage in WvW against a specific single person, meanwhile plenty of other level 80s who actually know how to play their class will absolutely wreck them using nothing but exotics. And even brand new accounts can’t go into WvW with a level 1 character, so if you see a level 2 (minimum is 2 since the tutorial will take you to level 2) in WvW that’s probably the alt of someone who knows the game reasonably well and is only in WvW to gather leather nodes.

3. I have friends on F2P accounts that got full ascended purely through playing the game within about 2 months or so. They never spent a dime. You want to pay a thousand dollars to buy gems to convert to gold to buy mats so you could rush to level 80, then be bored and clueless, dying a lot on a class you don’t even know how to play, how does that give you an advantage?

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Arktouros

I think it’s less about turning a blind eye to it and more a difference in opinion on what “P2W” means. To me, you have to be able to show the “Win” part of P2W in order to make that claim. So a game that spells cash shop exclusive ammo/guns/gear that is better than what you can obtain in game allows you to win over those who don’t spend money is a clear case of P2W.

In this case, there’s literally none of that. If anything you could argue it’s a loss.

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Jack Pipsam

Why am I not surprised anymore.

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Schlag Sweetleaf

.

that was easy.gif
kalamari_
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kalamari_

not the bird?

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Schlag Sweetleaf

Considered it, but this was quick and easy. Perhaps mirroring the subject matter of the story :)

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Darthbawl

:P

Just-do-it-You-know-you-want-to-meme-63118.jpg
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camelotcrusade

A little OT but have any games started selling literal I WIN buttons in the cash shop yet? That would be a funny in-joke for an April fools, but probably hits too close to home…

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Baldigar Stumblefoot

I mean ESO did the sarcastic opposite of this, with “Pay to Lose”, https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Crown_Store/Pay_to_Lose

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MKlwr

I bought those! :-P

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BalsBigBrother

Don’t see the point personally.

However, if folks want to buy this that is their choice to make and not for me to get on any high raptor um horse to judge them for doing so. Optional unlock is optional /shrugs

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Melissa McDonald

I recall what it was like to be granted a free lvl 85 player in EQ2. The game was already over for me. Foes cringed at my approach. Quests were either too easy or gave no XP at all due to my level. I was like a ghost in that world.

So, no, I don’t like shortcuts that circumvent actually playing the game.

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agemyth 😩

Yeah, if playing a game is so inconvenient that you would rather pay money to bypass things in it maybe you should find a new game or hobby you actually enjoy.

I jumped on the time limited opportunities to get free high level characters in EQ1, EQ2, TERA, and probably some others, but after the novelty of “free new thing” wore off I either went back to my lower level characters or moved onto other games. Even getting free character boosts with WoW expansions doesn’t last long for me because there is no attachment to or history with that character.

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Nathan Aldana

I mean. in fairness, pre-80 stuff in guild wars 2 is basically meaningless drivel you can do for rewards at 80 anyhow, so that comparison doesnt hold much water.

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agemyth 😩

Pay 2 Not Play

styopa
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styopa

http://progressquest.com/ but with a cash shop?

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Bhagpuss Bhagpuss

It really is. Carry on down this path and eventually you’ll be able to pay a few hundred dollars not to install the game at all!

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Ket Viliano

Announcing… Notagame Online!

A game, you don’t play!
No create-a-character, $20
Don’t log in daily quest, $50
No download, $100

Don’t create an account? No worries, with our partner, Wells Fargo, we will create an account for you, and bill you $50,000!

Notagame, the best game you never played!

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Nathan Aldana

Biiit hyperbolic there since if I dont wanna install a game at all I;ll just do that for the cost of free, Buddy.

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Alex Willis

*shrugs* This will make life easier for someone starting out for the first time I suppose, but…is pretty meaningless for anyone else who has been playing for any length of time. It also takes a lot of fun (and XP!) out of exploration. While I *might* recommend a level 80 boost to a new player, I would *never* recommend the waypoint unlocker to a new player.

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Utakata

Whalepoints? Oh…you said Waypoints… o.O

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Bryan Turner

Since when does spending $25 on a game make you a whale, I’m asking you and the 18 brainless people that liked your comment, I don’t know for sure but I’m pretty certain your Gnome rode around on one of those Sparkly Ponies full of stars from Wrath that doubled as a flying mount, wouldn’t that make you a whale? We are talking 25 measly dollars when your precious WoW doesn’t even include Flight Paths with their level boosts, if anything you’re the one getting suckered with what WoW offers at their price points. Enjoy that 25 dollar sparkle pony fellow whale.

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Bryan Turner

replied to the wrong person.

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Utakata

Well…I suppose so. But since I have earned all mounts ingame on every MMO I’ve play, kinda makes you look like you are foolishly barking up the wrong pigtail for the “appeal to hypocrisy” /upvote. o.O

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Bryan Turner

I’ve had my morning coffee now, taken a long shower, cleared the cobwebs out of my brain, in short I’m more civil now. This is the reason I should stay away from comments sections prior to waking up properly. I was a savage ass hole, I apologize for my behavior.

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Utakata

Apology accepted!

…and as person whose been in that sort of pickle a few times in posting tenure at the Massively IP, I can only sympathise with your error. Consider my pigtails put back in their place over this. /bows

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Schlag Sweetleaf

Oṁ Sahanā vavatu
sahanau bhunaktu
Sahavīryam karavāvahai
Tejasvi nāvadhītamastu
Mā vidviṣāvahai
Oṁ Shāntiḥ, Shāntiḥ, Shāntiḥ.

mad man meditation medication.gif
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Utakata

Thanks for that, Mr. Schlag! <3

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Paragon Lost

You’re staring at the tree and not noting the forest around it, ignoring her point. When mechanical conveniences exist in the cash shop many whale players will take advantage of it. I know I will. I take advantage of every mechanical advantage that they offer but for one. I don’t do the boosts since I like to actually play through the content.

I regret every time I use such things. I recently did that with my Fans Edition of Lotro Mordor expansion I snagged. I boosted my 41st level Runekeeper and within an hour thought well that was stupid. Never again. Otherwise I tend to blow money if there are items that make it easier to do things, like larger storage, more bag space, accelerators for reputation etc. Which is why I’ve blown a grand in the last six months of Lotro, because I keep buying things that said shop.

Btw nice insult of those 18 well now 19 because of my like of her post. How about working on debating the point and resisting insulting posters? Insult the points all you want Bryan but try to avoid making it so you aren’t being taken serious because you insult the posters themselves.

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Utakata

Thing is buying a mount, is essentially buying a new model for an ability you have already have or have unlocked. Thusly it’s a cosmetic and gives you no ingame advantages over other players. Effectively keeping the playing field in the MMO even and level.

My only issue where cosmetics become Pay2Win factor, if said MMO community where to hold a costume contest where the best looking gear is acquired via a cash shop wall only. Whales would obviously have the advantage over this in games like GW2 for example. And this is why I personally have a problem with that. This can be mitigated however, by allowing the player to acquire same cosmetics ingame as well at a reasonable pace. :)

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BalsBigBrother

Honest question what advantage do you think this particular item gives someone?

Someone who doesn’t buy it can achieve exactly the same thing for free. Gee they save time ok but I am not racing anyone to a finish line as there isn’t one.

So can you specifically tell me what advantage they gain in a part of the game that you are not competing with anyone over. Why does someone playing a game of their own terms bother you so much?

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Utakata

Err…which particular item? o.O

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Darthbawl

WayLpoints would also be acceptable. :P

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Tobasco da Gama

Is this account-wide? That could be pretty tempting for altoholics.

Unfortunately, I don’t think it could be any cheaper than this without being too big of a boon for keyfarmers.

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Paragon Lost

Wish it was account wide, that would rock. I just snagged an account ride faster ride speed for my characters in Lotro, well spent.

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Michael

It is character based. This is honestly kind of a trap for new players. Anyone who has been playing the game for any length of time would realize how much of a ripoff this is.

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Tobasco da Gama

Well, then that’s fucking insane.

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McGuffn

This would save a minute for keyfarming? probably less with mounts.

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Kherova

pretty bad, but wait: if I could just pay for flying in WOW, I would actually do it and start playing the game again. The grind to get there is much worse for a father, garden owner, full job haver, …

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Nathan Aldana

Yeaaah, I could see selling this for like 500 gems for the whole of central tyria. but 20oo, about the same price as a level 80 character?

Yeaahno

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CthulhuDawg

You know what, I didn’t think anyone could top selling hotbars as the scummiest mmo monetization but I believe this may have, for me at least. Edit: Thought about it a little extra and I withdraw my statement. Honestly it’s not that bad all things considered, at least you get to keep the waypoints. I’ve bought and used Globes and Bells in EQ2 to get around the world faster when there wasn’t a wizard or druid around. Selling hotbars is still scummy as all get out though.

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Bob Dobalina

Hardly scummy. You need hotbars, you don’t really need waypoints and you can get them for free if you want to do the work.

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TBPlayer2112

I agree. Paying for hotbars is still the lowest of the low in my book.

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