Destiny 2’s players grumble over lack of social features; Bungie posts Curse of Osiris release date, trailer

The original Destiny featured such robust social features as poorly managed chat options and a total dearth of social features to help people form groups. This wound up finding a great deal of acceptance on consoles, because console players are accustomed to developers treating basic MMO functionality the same way that 12-year-old boys treat romance scenes. However, here on the PC we don’t take that kind of crap, and Destiny 2 players are taking to the (metaphorical) streets demanding things like LFG chat, global chat channels, and in-game guild chat.

If you haven’t been playing the game, it might baffle you that an MMO could release in 2017 without these features, but here we are. The discussions are fairly heated on both the official forums and Reddit, but largely in favor of such systems (with several snarky comments about how in-game friendships are based around barely talking to other people), so it remains to be seen whether or not Destiny 2 is prepared to handle the influx of demands by MMO players.

Meanwhile, Bungie announced today that Curse of Osiris will release on December 5th.

Source: Official Forums (1, 2), Reddit; thanks to Jim for the tip!
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63 Comments on "Destiny 2’s players grumble over lack of social features; Bungie posts Curse of Osiris release date, trailer"

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mysecretid

Re: Curse of Osiris expansion:

When a former Guardian names himself after an Egyptian god, you just know we’re going to have trouble with this guy (ego much there, Osiris?) :-)

Also, Gina Torres has such a great speaking voice. No wonder she gets so much voice-work!

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Chad Wells

Can’t say I miss it.

If we choose we can work around it.

https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237051418?sort=0&page=0

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Jesse Schulkers

In that case why can’t I opt-in to a zone chat at least? I feel like they’ve made every effort for me to not make a friend. If I want to talk to people I have to interact with a menu to interact with a menu so i can type a message- if they have that on. And hten only that guy I went through all that effort for can see it.

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Chad Wells

If they choose to add more chat features, that’s fine by me.

While you opt-in, I will opt-out. No big deal.

The discord link was not meant to be snarky, just passing around info of how PC players are working around it at the moment.

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enamel

The lack of public/general chat has been a godsend,it is a huge quality of life improvement for everyone aside from the salt miners. There isn’t an online game in existence that wouldn’t be improved by the removal of it’s general chat.

The lack of clan chat is a strange choice, but rendered totally obsolete by Discord at this point. I can understand why they wouldn’t want to reinvent that wheel for the 1000th time. Clan chat has felt more and more superfluous since VIOP has become popular, it spits your clans communications, and the text chatters tend to get ignored when most the clan is in voice.

Overall I love the trend of pushing community building out of individual games and into spaces that have much more robust community building tools. Communities are better managed, and leads to more invested clan mates when they are maintained outside of individual games.

I hope to see a lot more of this trend as companies look for ways to reduce toxicity in their games.

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Sorenthaz

“But Destiny 2 isn’t an MMO, it’s an online cooperative multiplayer shooter!”

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Bullet Teeth

I think I read about this game being almost completely beatable while barely firing your weapon.

In a Shooter….

Legit MMO right there…

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starbuck1771

Some of the mobs can be beat by melee but not a lot. Try to melee mobs til Gohl and let me know how that works for you.

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kody

It’s funny what you can read on the internet.

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Dystopiq

On the bright side I haven’t seen any toxicity whatsoever!

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Michael

If you haven’t been playing the game, it might baffle you that an MMO could release in 2017 without these features, but here we are.

It would be baffling, if it were an MMO. It is not though. I mean, especially when Destiny 3 comes out in 2 years. MMOs allow you to encounter more then a potential 15 other players in your map.

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Dug From The Earth

Trying to get into a group to play with someone in Destiny 2, is the most obtuse, cumbersome, and frustrating experience ive EVER had in an mmo.

– You cant chat with people to ask/adverstise for a group, not even to someone standing right next to you.
– By default, most people have their teams set to “Friends/clan only” so there is no chance of joining 99% of the people playing around you.
– Even when you set your team to “public” people still dont join, or know to join, because you cant “Advertise” that you are LFM
– Joining someones group requires you both having to add each other to your battle net friends
– You cant whisper someone in game until you add them to battlenet friends

Its like Bungie deliberately decided to say “screw all the things we have learned about multiplayer grouping in games for the last 19 years”. The way it is currently is the most backwards, unintuitive, and down right insulting system that someone could have come up with. It makes the grouping in games like Dark Souls seem like pure genius in comparison.

If they are going to keep a lot of PC gamers around, they are going to need to improve things soon.

– You need to be able to set a “Im looking for a team” flag, that will show an icon next to your name for people near by you, letting them know you want to group.
– You need to have an icon next to your name that shows “Hey, ive got a group, thats open to join” so others can join on you if they are near you
– There needs to be a global list of player names and what content they want a group for, that ANYONE can see, sortable by things like Raid, Strikes, PvP, Story, Exploring, etc.

(notice Bungie… all 3 of my solutions dont require adding chat, and thus, help keep toxicity out of the game still)

These are BASIC and rudimentary aspects of a multiplayer game. Especially one that doesnt allow the ability to CHAT.

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Bannex

I agree, the lack of social features seems silly. It’s not something that can’t be fixed and it could easily be integrated with battlenet.

Hopefully they’ll address this, it can’t be hard to implement.

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Dug From The Earth

The problem with battlenet, is that it only allows you to interact with people who are on your friends list. IE: there is no exposure to NEW people (like there can be using something like Discord)

If I had people on my battlenet friends list, who played Destiny 2, I wouldnt have an issue finding people to group with

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Denice J. Cook

Bungie said there would be a chat window in Destiny 2, but they really kept the details hushed. That alone should have told us something right there.

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rafael12104

Glaring omissions and no question in mind, intentional. Time, money, oh there are many reasons, I’m sure.

But what Bungie fails to appreciate is how loyal the PCMR is if a game caters to them. A little more time and effort, and this game could have staying power in the PC world.

As it is, I think that this game is fun, with a strong single player experience. A “solo” game that has MMO aspects. Lol. Oh, the irony in that.

The problem is that devs are like sheep. Unfortunately I see more of this type of thing in MMOs from EA etc. etc. on the way. Maximize revenue, eliminate the cost of traditional MMO chat functions, the PCMR will have to deal with it. “Gaming as a service.”

I bet we see these omissions in Anthem too.

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WarlockJumpBestJump

This isn’t an oversight. I think a lot of PC players are mistakenly assuming that Bungie ported it over and forgot about the social features. That’s not actually the case. Bungie deliberately excluded conventional social features from both Destiny and Destiny 2 because someone (or ones) at Bungie is creatively or ideologically opposed to convenience.

It’s bizarre. Bungie has stated that they don’t want automated matchmaking for raids or trials and I agree with that. Raids and trials are too complex for automated matchmaking to be a good solution. But, Bungie doesn’t seem to realize that automated matchmaking isn’t the only available tool. Moving something like the100.io into the game would be a perfect solution.

80% of the raids I completed were entirely or at least partially a group from the100.io or r/fireteams. And the majority were successful completions of an entire raid on hard mode. It’s a system that works. Bungie even added something similar to the app. Yet 4 years after Destiny’s launch I’m still going to a third party to find groups or fill spots from absent clan members.

It’s like a restaurant that only takes reservations and only from a series of third party website that are completely unconnected to the restaurant. It’s not a big deal, but it is baffling and annoying.

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Angel of Def

It’s bizarre. Bungie has stated that they don’t want automated matchmaking for raids or trials and I agree with that. Raids and trials are too complex for automated matchmaking to be a good solution. But, Bungie doesn’t seem to realize that automated matchmaking isn’t the only available tool. Moving something like the100.io into the game would be a perfect solution.

Yea, I mean all the raid finders in every mmo with more advanced Raids fail every time they add party finders or a raid finder… oh wait, no they don’t. This is a cop out and a bull crap one at that.

dixa
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dixa

Can’t compare console to pc.

On console you can IM random people using the console UI. On console you can invite random people using their in game names – which are also their gamer tags – to groups using console UI.

Pc their in game names do not show their full battle tags. Even if they have whispers from strangers turned on you have to go to roster and right click their name.

Defiance launched with similiar poor chat functionitu, but we could at least send tells to the random people we encountered

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Dug From The Earth

Developer arrogance at its best.

“Lets just ignore the lessons learned from past game lessons and failures, and do what we know and think is best!”

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rafael12104

Very strange indeed.

Dantos
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Dantos

Something like FF14’s party finder would be great.

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Alex Js.

an MMO could release in 2017 without these features

It’s not really an “MMO”, though – just a heavily castrated co-op game. So much castrated that you can’t even see any of your strike/group member’s stats (or any other kind of visual acknowledgement aside from tiny dot/arrow indicators on “radar” area) somewhere on your HUD. Even Borderlands had a much more detailed visual indicators for group members…

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Michael

Yeah, if this is an MMO then Warframe, Diablo 3, and Path of Exile are MMOs.

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Dušan Frolkovič

Considering most “real” MMOs are made of standing around in the main hub and waiting for the queues: yes, they are.

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Q Hand

Don’t get me wrong, I love the IP (I have a hilarious amount of time invested in it), but I agree with you–it’s really stretching the term, “MMO.” A “semi-shared-world shooter with barebones social features and RPG trappings” even seems a bit much for it at times.

I mean, you can’t even follow a random person from one planet “room” to another without phasing separately from them. I always found that very non-MMO.

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Alex Js.

Not only a “random person” – you can’t even follow or find your clan member unless you’re in an active group with that person. Not even in a “public idle” areas like the Tower. All thanks to the horribly antisocial and extremely aggressive instancing system they use…

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Arktouros

I haven’t been playing and it doesn’t baffle me at all how or why this occurred.

Essentially Bungie recognized their mistake from the first time around and wanted to get that PC gamer money. So they basically did a Console Port of their game. Then they did just enough to quell the normal console port outrage over graphics. They put zero thought into the other kinds of game features PC players take for granted.

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Michael

Just because the game lacks social features, does not mean they did not put a lot into the port. It is a VERY WELL DONE port. One of the best; if not the best. It plays perfectly on PC, PC is clearly the best version, and it supports more play options then you can count.

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Arktouros

I never once refuted that. I said they did just enough to quell the normal console port outrage which is almost universally over graphics. Apparently they did such a good job as to even get praise for their job well done.

However, fundamentally speaking, that doesn’t erase the fact that much of the game play design is attuned to the restrictions and game play experiences for the console crowd. Basic features you would see in most PC online titles are limited or non-existent because they don’t translate well to a console. This shouldn’t be surprising let alone baffling to anyone as good majority of their business is on console and it’s only natural they would cater the over all game towards them instead of developing features that would be considered part of a good game for PC.

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Iain B

Destiny 2 is more than “just a console port”. The game legitimately is one of the best feeling shooters on the PC. Period. And the game client itself was optimized incredibly well. I have a second PC with an old GTX 780 and the game looks and plays fantastic. Vicarious Visions did an amazing job.

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Arktouros

Okay but expanding on what a fantastic job they did with the graphics doesn’t refute anything I said.

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Iain B

But I didn’t just mention the graphics. By saying “they just made a console port” you are discounting how much work is required to make a console shooter play and feel right with a mouse and keyboard.

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Q Hand

I have heard amazing things about the PC version, but I’m tethered to the console for this particular game, as that’s where all my friends who have not quite committed to the MMO lifestyle have found a middle ground with me.

I think if Destiny 1 had come out on PC, I would have said “screw em!” and be playing D2 there right meow.

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Dušan Frolkovič

Yeah, no in-game clan chat, rudimentary clan chat through website/mobile app should be some of their first issues to tackle.
As well as the (hold onto your hats) clan forums that can only be accessed through the mobile app.

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Tom R

I got invited to a random clan on day one, I joined up because i noticed it mentioned you get better rewards for doing what you already do just for being in a clan.

Now i’m in a clan and I don’t even know anybody who’s in it. There’s no chat, nothing. Just a clan tag and some boosted loot gains. I’m as solo in Destiny as you can get but also apparently in a 50 person clan.

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Dušan Frolkovič

You have a chat through your clan website and most clans also run their own discord server.

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Q Hand

Console players have been asking for more for years, but I’m glad PC Destiny owners are around now to bang on the war drum. All you have to do is alt-tab to go and complain online somewhere. I have to open up my laptop, and by that time, I’ve generally already stopped giving a shit.

I mean, I’ve been harping on Bungie for Destiny having less social interaction than Dreamcast’s Phantasy Star Online since D1 launch (the two games actually share an interesting amount of similarities). Some progress has happened though: it took three years, but my posts about being able to equip more than one emote at a time appear to have finally been heard!

In any case, it’ll be nice to have a new group of people that Bungie will have to actively appease, lest they be seen as ignoring it. I’m sure benefits will be seen all around.

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Iain B

While I don’t look forward to a day where Destiny 2 has their own “barrens chat”, the lack of a clan chat channel is a pretty gross over-sight. Having to individually whisper people in my clan is cumbersome and just plain idiotic.

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starbuck1771

Yeah they got it set for team, fireteam, and whipsers however the chat doesn’t work period.

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Tom R

It does, it just defaults you to not auto-join voip or text chat. Many players don’t dig deep in their options so they never realize this.

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starbuck1771

You are welcome. I had to get this out there as I can’t do Nightfallen or raids because I can’t look for a group due to chat not working period and no clan functionality other then being invited to one.

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Anthony Dixon
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starbuck1771

however that doesn’t help if your in-game and I shouldn’t need a third party program

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Anthony Dixon

Alt + Tab? Use your smartphone? destinylfg.net got me through the first game.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

you can’t have a toxic community if you have no community functionality.

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Q Hand

Haha, if only! Misery, it seems, always finds a way.

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Mark

deekay gets it

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BalsBigBrother

In game I guess so but community extends beyond the game these days. Go visit the Bungie D2 forums that place is as nasty and in some ways worse most others I have been unfortunate enough to visit. I only went to see what folks thought of the PC release and oh boy was that a mistake /sigh

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Q Hand

The only real safe haven on the Destiny forums is Lore, where dorks like me hang out.

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starbuck1771

Yeah the consolers are not happy with the pc version so they troll the forums. including on the chat discussions because they really can’t text chat in the game. Whats even worse is on pc voice chat in game doesn’t even work while on console they can use party chat.

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Indigo Salma

No clan chat no region or world map chat. Can’t even whisper properly unless i got that person on my friends list. Would think an MMO would have those features by default.
My clan with 50+ people in it had to make a discord channel cause the one provided by bungie isn’t so useful.
And currently the ingame clan roster is blank.

Some idiots who didn’t want to implement those must have thought its a perfectly good idea.

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BDJ

Repeat after me.

Destiny 2…. is…. not….. an…… MMO.

One more time.

Destiny 2…. is…. not….. an…… MMO.

It is a small group lobby shooter with extremely small worlds. Its not an MMO. I wish people would quit saying this.

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Indigo Salma

But it is an mmo.
Keep on wishing , your opinion on this matter will not impact others.

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kgptzac

It’s true Destiny 2 is not an MMO, but it doesn’t excuse the fact that these basic online interaction features are utterly lacking. A good example how it’s done right, see Warframe.

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Nick // Genghis

Except, in my limited experience with Warframe (about 65 hours on Steam and attempts here and there to get into it since Beta), having played with experienced friends, and asking said friends about where things are is a constant battle. Warframe’s UI in general is one of the biggest turn offs about the game to me. So that doesn’t apply to everyone. If I had a nickle for everytime I clenched my fists in frustration after the several different iterations since starting in Beta 4 years ago, I’d be a rich man. Then maybe I could buy some Platinum for all that crafted equipment I can’t seem to hold anymore of…

Not saying D2’s UI is the bomb diggity, far from it, but Warframe is a poor example. The chat is decent for an MMO, but it’s insanely cluttered, TOO informative, and ultimately detracts from a lot of newer players (not counting myself but others I’ve introduced to it). If you don’t have trouble understanding a lot of nuances of it, that means you’ve been playing for awhile. At the onset, it’s quite overwhelming.

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Anthony Dixon

Consoles have managed to make it work, why can’t you?

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Indigo Salma

You really should take a hint and understand the fact that people don’t want to use third party crap to talk to people ingame . A process that should have been in the game from the start since this is an mmo and you need to communicate with people non stop. That just shows how lazy the development was.
I want to talk to people ingame without needing to visit a website or use my phone. This shit is frustrating beyond reason and the developers couldn’t care less about it.
No one talks ingame , feels like i’m playing with robots , a feeling that i have when playing single player games ,which this isn’t.

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Joshua Dickerson

Because on consoles you don’t have options as much as on PC. It is an unspoken rule about how social interactions work on console. On console you are mostly expecting to only have voice chat as the main component.

On PC we have a keyboard which is 2nd nature. In our games we are quickly able to type to people without having to voice chat or hear someone else’s voice. That kind of freedom is at times what draws PC users to stay on PC.

It is expectations that differ depending on what system you play on. On PC we have long past that milestone of cumbersome social interaction restrictions. So to have that in a PC game in 2017 seems backwards, where as on console, it is a general accepted rule.

Also, on PC I used keyboard and mouse unless the game forces me to play with a controller. I use push to talk on my mouse for Discord and TS. I dont want to have to switch my gaming to “voice activation” while playing a game.

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mysecretid

Agreed. People wanted a PC port of a popular console game, and they got precisely that.

It’s fine to ask after the fact for additional features, like those found in PC MMOs — but when people start demanding them, or insinuating that their absence is some sort of clear evidence of developer laziness, corporate evil, or arrogance, well, it becomes clear that certain folks weren’t paying full attention.

Cheers,

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Joshua Dickerson

Yup I agree full heartedly it is upon us gamers to research and decide if the game is right for us. I was just voicing the frustration part of it.

I play BDO full time and the forums are full of people raging to petition the game to change into something it was never meant to be. While Destiny 2’s social tools are a bit lacking, I wouldn’t boycott the game or call for any negative review of the game based on that. They could change it, but if they dont, it is just simply the Devs sticking to their original vision of the game.

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Iain B

Define “work”. Having to rely on 3rd party websites to do something as simple as organize a strike is tedious.

Destiny 1 also didn’t have clans so the idea of communicating in-game with a group of people wasn’t an issue before. But Destiny 2 has clans, so the lack of a clan chat channel is idiotic.

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Anthony Dixon

Destiny 1 did have clans, agree with rest of what you said.

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