Nostalrius admins take victory lap over World of Warcraft Classic

The driving forces behind Nostalrius, the famous World of Warcraft emulator that caused so much hubbub in 2016, are taking a victory lap this week after hearing the news about the existence of World of Warcraft Classic. Heck, if you read their letter a certain way, they are claiming a good share of the credit for Blizzard’s decision to open a legacy server.

“We are so excited, and want to THANK YOU once again for being part of this incredible journey: we wrote history together!” the admins exclaimed. “They will provide a stable realm, run by the most passionate people, and help unify the World Of Warcraft community.”

Admins Daemon and Viper said that they will “continue to make ourselves available” to Blizzard if needed in order to make WoW Classic happen. The pair said that Nostalrius’ chief goal is “completely achieved” with this announcement. The team hopes that no new Nostalrius-branded servers will be created because of this.

The Nostalrius team famously made a trek out to Blizzard’s headquarters in June 2016 to share the structure behind its legacy server and to answer questions by the WoW team.

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70 Comments on "Nostalrius admins take victory lap over World of Warcraft Classic"

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Alberto

What a bunch of idiots..this happened despite their Incompetence and lack of Class or Honor.

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Rolan Storm

To paraphrase SWTOR cutscene ‘there is pathetic and there is you, guys’.

Things like this remind me of teens. Drama, ego boosting and transparent mind games they consider high intrigue. At some points adults will take over all this.

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Sorenthaz

Now we just need something from Mark Kern.

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Hirku

No thanks, I’m good.

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Utakata

…as long as they don’t make into a bus. /sigh

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zeko_rena

I was waiting for these guys to blow some smoke up each others own arses

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rafael12104

LOL! I have to say, I was a little incensed when I first read this, but actually it is comical.

So first, yeah, they contributed. They were invited by Blizz to have a conversation. Their plight was discussed and newsworthy.

But then what happened? They stabbed Blizz in the eye with an ultimatum and giving their source code Elysium so that they could continue their corrupt enterprise. LOL.

It wasn’t Nost that made this happen, their input became irrelevant. Blizz made this happen and all of those other supporters of Vanilla who kept their heads.

So congrats to the Nost admins for not totally screwing things up for everyone else.

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Emiliano Lozada

And then Elysium was caught doing some really scummy things.

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Aggrax

How about instead of taking credit for being thieves and pirates, they just quietly give thanks that they didn’t get the pants sued off of them.

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CMDR Crow

I always find these kinds of comments just rich because Blizzard directly ripped off both WH Fantasy (Warcraft) and WH40K (Starcraft) to build the basis of the company they are today. Like, Blizzard is a company that is literally built on their IP theft from not just one, but two other longer-running tabletop games.

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Aggrax

Two IPs which were themselves heavily “stolen” from Lord of the Rings and Starship Troopers. Using similar elements in different ways or having similar inspirations isn’t stealing. Especially when you consider how vastly different the tones of the Games Workshop universe games are from the Blizzard universe ones.

Nostalrius are thieves because they took, wholesale, art assets and game design from Blizzard. Work done by someone else, passed of as their own for the sake of profit. I call them thieves because that is what they are. Full stop.

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zeko_rena

Cool lets open this can of worms and find something that was created prior to WH40K that has a minor similarity and claim that WH40K ripped it off them!

I really hate this type of thinking, who made the first multiplayer game because all these other people who have multiplayer are just copy cats and they should be hung!

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Sorenthaz

I mean, it’s pretty obvious that Warcraft and Starcraft took heavy inspiration from Warhammer and 40K. Even some of the lore in Warcraft shares some heavy similarities to Warhammer.

For example, WoW’s version of The Sundering and its Maelstrom aftermath were pretty heavily inspired by Warhammer’s own versions:
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/The_Sundering
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Vortex

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Leiloni

Nobody stole from Warhammer or 40k. WoW, Warhammer, 40k, D&D, and everyone else stole ideas from J. R. R. Tolkien who wrote the various LOTR books between 1937 and 1955. But even he obviously has his own numerous influences, although I suppose we can credit him for bringing a lot of the modern fantasy/D&D ideas together into one coherent theme.

And yes, Tolkien’s elves did have a sundering.

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Sorenthaz

I didn’t say anything about ‘stealing’, I said “took heavy inspiration from”.

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Leiloni

OK then replace the word “steal” in my comment with “took heavy inspiration from” and my point still stands. You can’t take heavy inspiration from an idea that that game didn’t even create to begin with. At that point they’re just both taking heavy inspiration from the same third party, in this case Tolkien.

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zeko_rena

Sure, but taking inspiration from others work is not theft?

Taking art assets from a game and hosting said game using all those assets as they were originally is theft?

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CMDR Crow

That isn’t how an argument works.

I’m making the point that individuals who come screaming in about “theft” and “piracy” rarely show actual consistency in applying those concepts. Which means it isn’t “piracy” or “theft” but something else, entirely, that drives the position.

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kgptzac

Blizzard applies inspirations of other existing IP is neither theft nor piracy though.

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zeko_rena

I don’t understand how this applies.
There is a HUGE difference between taking inspiration from other peoples work, as opposed to just TAKING other peoples work and art assets directly.

I don’t have a problem with a game taking inspiration from other games or shows, its great, and the original artist should feel pride that his work inspired others.

I have a problem with a someone taking work created by someone else and just taking it as is and using it, which is what a private server does.

OneEyeRed
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OneEyeRed

Popcorn anyone?

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Fisty

Remember when modding was applauded by the gaming community? Nostalrius was basically just a mod that let people play classic WoW. It was at the core of what the master race is all about.

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Aggrax

Mods are still welcome by the gaming community. Nostalrius wasn’t a mod, it was an illegal service that was correctly shut down. The fact that the people behind it are treated with anything other than disdain completely baffles me.

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agemyth 😩

Remember when these asshats gave the Nostalrius source code to that trash fire corrupt private server org Elysium?

They had the idea that their source code and advice was enough to solve every major issue that may have been blocking Blizzard’s ability to make vanilla servers. When Blizzard, a giant multi-billion dollar company beholden to stockholders, did not announce vanilla servers mere months after Nost’s visit they handed the code over to the Elysium team. Oh, and then they regretted doing that in a few days/weeks.

They drew attention to the demand that was already there, but lost their credibility.

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Schlag Sweetleaf

.

we did it.gif
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rafael12104

Thanks Schlag. LOL. I need to see this before I started to rage the revisionist historian Nost team.

Seriously. This helps.

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Hirku

For the next prototype, double the arm length and quintuple the speed. Hammering some rusty nails through the hand is optional, but recommended.

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Schlag Sweetleaf

will take that under advisement…:P

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Utakata

/Nostrollius

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voydd

Next Blizzcon – TBC expansion announced for WoW Classic

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Lethality

Here’s my prediction: Blizzard will cancel Classic before it launches.

Bookmark this comment.

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Malcolm Swoboda

Please no! Between Classic and the feature list of BfA, I may actually long term subscribe in 2018-2019!

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

Man the backlash would be nuts.

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TheDonDude

Y’know what? Nostalrius probably did have a big part in why Warcraft: Classic has become a thing.

I have no problem with them celebrating the announcement.

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Sorenthaz

They essentially created the big vocal push towards it, but people have wanted classic servers for ages. They also helped Blizzard see what the emulator servers are like from likely a much different perspective than the Blizz higher-ups were thinking with it.

So yes Nostalrius helped in pushing the conversation for sure, but ultimately it’s not like they were the key factor in Blizzard’s decision.

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rafael12104

They had a part. Not a big one, but a part. Then they pissed it all away with that letter and ultimatum. It became clear that as Uta points out, Nost was full of it, and had no interest in working with Blizz if it wasn’t on their terms.

Classic was made in spite of Nost, and not because of Nost.

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Leiloni

I think what they did was bring attention to the WoW Classic private server community, and through their success and subsequent actions, started a movement that proved to Blizzard that the community was large enough to warrant the effort. I’d say they were an important catalyst and for that I’m ok with them celebrating their part.

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Utakata

…big as in a hot air balloon. Big…and well, full of hot air in the inside. Just saying.

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eboe

And I’m saying that at any given moment, humans are full of a lot of crap, like you clearly are with your post.

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Nick Smith

I know we recently had a discussion as to what would make me come back to WoW. Well, this is it. I’m going to love riliving my memories of vanilla wow again :)

styopa
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styopa

Stupid ego whoring…pretty much par for the course for these doofuses. If your egos hadn’t sucked the air out of the room, I suspect you’d have actually been INVOLVED with this announcement, instead of trying futilely to take credit from the sidelines.

Shut up and go away already. Dipshits.

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Bryan Correll

we wrote history together!

Martin Luther King, Jr., Jonas Salk, and Neil Armstrong made history. I very much doubt the “names” of Viper and Daemon will appear alongside them.

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Slaasher

hahaha. true dat

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Hirku

Remember, kids: steal other people’s stuff and you can be a winner, too!

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starbuck1771

Whats wrong with Vanilla Ice? He gave you kids the Ninja Rap.

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Aggrax

He also stole the beat of Ice Ice Baby from the song Under Pressure by David Bowie and Queen.

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Leiloni

A lot of rappers and R&B artists borrow from other songs. I don’t think it’s the most original thing to do, but Vanilla Ice is far from the only one to do it. They call it sampling.

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eboe

Yes, but MOST give attributes to their samples: VI is a douchenozzle who refused to.

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starbuck1771

That’s what I have EVE, Star Citizen, and FreeLancer for. Drop the Loot, Pay the toll, or I will blow your hold.

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Doctor Sweers

“continue to make ourselves available” to Blizzard if needed

Of this, I have no doubt:)

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Armsbend

They should use this opportunity to aggressively shut them down – suing them into non-existence.

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Hirku

Not in this world, unfortunately. I’m sure all those CS students working hard to create something of their own and maybe get a shot at working for Blizz are feeling very inspired by all this. Disgusting.

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Schmidt.Capela

From an interview in Eurogamer:

Has Blizzard maintained a relationship with the people behind the unofficial legacy servers? I know the Nostalrius guys visited Blizzard at one point.

J. Allen Brack: We’ve talked to Daemon and Viper, the leads for that project, a handful of times since that visit.

Do you see them being more heavily involved in WOW Classic?

J. Allen Brack: We would welcome their involvement, for sure. I think one of the challenges is that they’re both French and so there’s a little bit of a visa concern, but we’d be open to it. They’re very passionate and strong Blizzard fans, clearly.

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CMDR Crow

I always like to point out that this kind of above anti-emu mentality is almost always laser-focused on WoW emus (and Nost specifically.) SWGemu exists in exactly the same legal position (i.e. not having permission from the actual IP holder– a former GD doesn’t have legal standing to sanction the emu) but with the latter, no one bats an eyelash and there is nothing but support. Which just leads to the steady conclusion that a lot of the anti-WoWemu sentiment has nothing to do with legality or moral/ethical values, but something totally different and really strange.

It honestly correlates to the reportage. SWGEmu is covered in a positive light without much mention (aside from handwaiving the legal issue) of how it is an illegal emulator. Meanwhile WoWemus are nearly universally treated with inherent disdain. It is more complicated than that, certainly, as something like SWG or pre-DBG P1999 has almost none of the crazy drama that Nost and other WoW emus tend to attract like a lightning rod. I do still find it interesting how being able to access and play a MMO that is no longer available is seen as ethically good or bad based on the volume of “drama” the servers, themselves, create. Which, in the end, gets lopped into these ridiculous discussions about ethics and legality. I think it is just easier to punch down at people like Nost, so when given the chance and sanction people do just that.

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Armsman

EMUs for games that no longer run/exist are one thing. EMUs for a game still actively being run by the IP holder are another.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

There’s no arguing with him. Daybreak sanctions emus for some of its games, puts together vanilla servers of its own, and has tacitly allowed the SWG emus (among other game emus) to go on for years – same with UO’s handlers at EA/BS. Blizzard, by contrast, has put together endless lawsuits against thieves and hackers and made it clear where it stands. And it’s not about “reportage”; most of the WoW emus don’t get bad press because their admins manage not to pull what the Nost people did last year. It’s not even remotely a hard line to draw.

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CMDR Crow

Not at all. Both are equally illegal. You can try to carve out exceptions all you like, but your position is logically inconsistent and ergo objectively invalid.

Aside from it being entirely semantics and completely beside the issue at hand, where is the live version of Vanilla WoW people keep talking about?

If I gave you a basketball and a court, then you could play basketball. If I take away the basketball, give you a baseball and then insist you’re still playing basketball you’d think I was crazy.

In any case, there is no difference between one non-sanctioned, illegal emulator and another. No difference at all. They both inhabit the exact same legal and ethical framework.

If you wanted to go deeper, your argument essentially boils down to consumers wanting a product (SWG) they cannot get anymore (SWG.) This is no different from “Vanilla” WoW at all. And at the end of the day, Blizzard, themselves, have hastened this consumer demand for classic by so completely re-building the game’s core mechanics every other year. I can tell you that today’s WoW is really not at all the same game in any way besides the surface-level engine consistency. By the logic you use to justify SWGEmu, you also justify WoW emus because they exist within the same argument as they are the same thing. Placing subjective, individual qualifications on one doesn’t make it different from what it is.

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Aggrax

There is no legal distinction between WoW as launched in 2004 and WoW now. They are the same product, an MMO set in the Warcraft Universe developed by Blizzard entertainment. Yes, the shape and design of that world had changed and yes, Legion is very functionally different from Classic WoW. But the copyrights and trademarks are the same, for the same game throughout the years. It is still Blizzards right to decide what level of emulation, if any, they allow. Emulation for the sake of preservation is, like fair use, a case by case basis. Daybreak allows P99 and SWG. Blizzard does not allow Classic EMUs and they have every right to do so. It doesn’t matter how much you miss Classic or want the game back, you aren’t entitled to be allowed to play it.

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Utakata

They probably hire them so they don’t run off and do more emu’s again. In the end, it may mean more money for the developers. So don’t take this as Blizz endorsing emu’s. It’s really not.

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Schmidt.Capela

I don’t care if Blizzard endorses emulators or not.

When I’ve paid for a game, I will play it in whichever way I damn please, regardless of how the devs want it to be played. If this means using an emulator or even a pirate copy to play an old, now unsupported version of the game, so be it.

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Utakata

No, Blizz tends to shut them down where their brand games are concerned.

…and you go! <3

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Schmidt.Capela

The difference here is that WoW is still officially available, even if in an undesirable way (for those that prefer Vanilla), while SWG can only be played, at all, through an emulator.

On the other hand, I don’t find anything fishy or reproachable in running emulators for previous expansions of WoW. The game changes enough between expansions that it’s just not the same thing. Ideally Blizzard would have a few servers set apart for players that prefer previous expansions, but failing that I’m all for players creating and operating servers that offer the expansions, the experiences, Blizzard can’t be bothered offering anymore.

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Aggrax

Given that what you described is theft, it’s absolutely reproachable.

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Julian Penrod

Nope! J Allen Brack already mentioned they are trying to get visas sorted out so blizzard can hire them

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kelvar

I’m sure Blizzard will be calling them for advice immediately.

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CMDR Crow

Actually, it wouldn’t be a surprise if a few of them ended up on the official team. It has been suggested and implied that the Nost code given to Blizz was what unlocked the ability for them to tackle Classic in the first place.

The animosity is something that really only exists in sustain within the consumer sector.

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Doctor Sweers

I just went back and read that interview by Eurogamer that Schmidt just cited. Appears as though these guys have a shot at working for Blizzard. Amazing. Crazy how that works but good for them, I suppose.

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Schmidt.Capela

It makes sense:

– They seem to be more up-to-date with Vanilla server code than just about anyone currently working for Blizzard. It has been, after all, a decade since Blizzard last used Vanilla servers.

– They managed to develop a fully working, complex TI project, from start to finish, without support from a parent company. That is the kind of talent any software company worth its charter, game developers included, would kill for.

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Doctor Sweers

It’s business and animosity is irrelevant in this case. Blizzard will accept the code with open arms, pat these guys on the back, and send them home with a “great experience” and a Murloc T-Shirt. It would be a poor PR move for Blizzard to sue these individuals so I would guess they are safe in that regard. In a kinder, more perfect world, these individuals get a nice job offer at Blizzard or a one-time fee for assisting Blizzard with the groundwork of this project. In reality, the Nos team has to shut down their project and move on to something new. I hope I am wrong as these individuals are obviously talented.

wpDiscuz