EA drops the costs of heroes – and reward payouts – in Star Wars: Battlefront II by 75%

Don’t be too proud of the barrier to entry you’ve constructed; the ability to make in-game unlocks incredibly expensive is insignificant next to the power of angry consumers. An update after the latest furor over Star Wars: Battlefront II’s hero unlock prices sees the prices for these characters slashed by 75%, bringing Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader down to 15,000 credits, while Palpatine, Leia, and Chewbacca will run 10,000 credits and Iden will cost only 5,000 credits.

What EA doesn’t note in its blog post is that it also reduced reward payouts commensurately.

We’re sure the cost is one that’s still meant to provide a sense of pride and accomplishment, somehow. Whether or not this mollifies players who were rather justifiably miffed about the whole thing remains to be seen; what is already quite obvious is that this is not something that the target audience is taking lightly, so the next move is on Electronic Arts – and that move appears to be an AMA?

“We’ve also been listening to how much you’re loving features in the game (Starfighter Assault, 40 player MP battles, Darth Maul lightsaber throws, etc.) as well as what you haven’t liked. We know some of our most passionate fans, including those in our subreddit, have voiced their opinions, and we hear you. We’re making the changes to the credit levels for unlocking heroes and we’re going to keep making changes to improve the game experience over time. We welcome the conversation. In fact, this Wednesday we’d like you to join us for a Reddit AMA with some of the key leads on our team.”

We’re sure that’s going to go over well.

Source: Official site. Thanks to everyone who tipped this!
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139 Comments on "EA drops the costs of heroes – and reward payouts – in Star Wars: Battlefront II by 75%"

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miol
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miol

Found this:

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Jeffrey Meade

When this game was first announced I was looking forward to playing it, but now it can pretty much burn in hell.

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life_isnt_just_dank_memes

From all accounts the single player campaign is really boiler-plate style sci-fi akin to the odd numbered star trek films.

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zeko_rena

Will be giving this one a wide berth as I do anything EA has influenced
My moment of weakness in the past few years was Mass Effect Andromeda, but it reminded me why I avoid EA influence.

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Terren Bruce

Massively OP should be better than to have such a misleading title for such a controversial subject. Rewards were lowered for the CAMPAIGN because the campaign hero you’re supposed to buy with those rewards was lowered.

Massively is purposely making people think the heroes and multi-player rewards were lowered by the same amount to make it look like EA has done nothing which is not true. Sure, it’s the least they could do and feel free to mention that. But to purposely mislead is wrong.

I’m disappointed Eliot. There’s plenty of bad things EA is doing here without having to exaggerate. If you’re not purposely misleading people then it’s another example of you being misinformed which I notice happens with you quite often. If you’re going to write articles about games you don’t play, then do some RESEARCH and be informed or leave it to another Massively writer.

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Jack Kerras

Hear, hear. :/

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Sorenthaz

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/star_wars_battlefront_ii/b/xboxone/archive/2017/11/14/star-wars-battlefront-ii-review-the-dark-side-of-gaming.aspx

6.5/10 from Gameinformer.

“The dark side courses through Star Wars Battlefront II, playing mind tricks on gamers to spend more money to become stronger. By the time you read this review, there’s a chance EA may change how the Star Cards or loot crates work, but at this point in time, this predatory microtransaction model Force-chokes Battlefront II’s experience. It’s a shame to see a game with such clear greatness get pulled down to these depths. Star Wars deserves better. We deserve better.”

Inb4 IGN gives it a 9.5/10.

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A Dad Supreme

I thought GameCrate gave a more in-depth, balanced review- https://www.gamecrate.com/reviews/review-star-wars-battlefront-ii-buries-good-game-under-baggage/17521

“Star Wars Battlefront II has solid core gameplay and offers a wide variety of content to enjoy, but at the moment it’s hard to look past the loot crate issues in order to appreciate what the game does well.”

7.5

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Sorenthaz

Well, the thing right now is that the monetization IS an issue that is bogging down what is otherwise a great game. Pretty much anything under an 8 is considered ‘bad’ and a 6.5 on an EA game is pretty much an ‘oh s**t’ moment for them.

EA actually cares significantly about reviews and what people think, which is a good thing because if more reviews give lower scores due to the microtransactions, it puts more pressure on them to change it in order to get better reviews for the public to see.

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Jack Kerras

This headline is extremely misleading.

They reduced the payout of the campaign completion chest by 75%. All other rewards remain the same.

Interestingly, it cost 20k credits to get Iden, the main character of the campaign, unlocked as a hero previously. Now it costs 5k… the same amount you get out of the completion chest at the end of the campaign.

So they were providing this specifically to allow an immediate unlock of Iden, if you identified with the character during the campaign, or alternately a headstart on a more iconic hero like Vader.

No other reward schema have been affected, from what I can see; all the credit rewards I was playing towards before this patch occurred remain the same, with hero costs reduced 75%.

Also, claiming that you need to unlock EVERY Star Card to its fullest potential in order to enjoy the game is extremely disingenuous; it’s cheap and easy (‘cheap’ here is from an ‘hours played’ perspective) to unlock all the Star Cards and test out abilities. After that, it will take some gameplay to enhance the ones you have learned you like through experimenting with lower-level versions.

You can only wear three Star Cards per class or hero at any given time, but there are -many- Cards available for each class. You will rapidly find favorites, the meta will recommend some over others, etc., and at that point you’ll level the ones you want in a very reasonable timeframe for a multiplayer game like this one.

Then, if you’re a completionist, you can just keep knocking them out for… damn near as many thousands of hours as you could possibly enjoy playing the same game.

I really don’t see an issue here; ‘unlocking every Star Card’ and ‘getting competitive/regaining competitiveness as the meta shifts during patches and new content’ are VERY different animals, and everyone is making noise like it’s Incredibly Important that you unlock every single Star Card.

Also, all the math I see here is ludicrous. It takes into account ONLY the amount of Credits and such that you get by playing and completing games; no secondary objectives, no timed challenges, no achievement rewards (and there are fucking stacks of those), no nothing. So your income is even faster, AND you are relatively likely to get more and more crafting materials as you buy more crates (with ingame cash), thus accelerating your rate of income re: Star Card upgrade-relevant materials. That’s not even mentioning the fact that it’s totally possible to get Tier 3 cards out of boxes, thereby eliminating half the cost of the upgrade out of hand.

Stop fucking freaking out. This is no different than any other progression system that includes random gear drops, except inasmuch as it contains something that’s extremely popular to hate on in this moment, and everyone feels like they must be on the right side of history.

That’s fine, do whatever, I’m not mad, but for fuck’s sake stop listening to other people’s intentionally-bad, disingenuous, trying-to-make-their-own-point math and just play a Goddamn Star Wars game. It’s fun! It’s -so much bigger and better- than the previous offering. I cut some shit up with Maul and I didn’t have to unlock him, AND being able to play as him is not just a mid-match powerup that people stand around and wait to spawn for half the fucking game.

Also: the cooldown Star Cards are -real- important, craft those early. It’s cheap as fuck and you won’t regret it.

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Sorenthaz

Considering you also excused Fortnite’s loot pinata shenanigans, I can’t say I’m surprised you’d defend EA’s P2W model, lol. Because that’s what this model is, it is literally P2W.

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Jack Kerras

I have no love for this kind of model. I get it, but I don’t think it was done well here, and I don’t think it was done well in Fortnite.

For the most part, what I thought about Fortnite was that it’s not P2W; money didn’t necessarily buy you a win, and you can’t do fuck-all with your purchases unless you also play a shitload of Fortnite in order to level any Schematic you get up to reasonable levels. You get a lot of options from spending money, but you still have to invest time, and not a little of it, to get those options to be in a viable place anywhere past the first area.

Further, I’m not excusing the lootboxes here; I think it’s a poor system. That being said, I still think the title of the article is immensely disingenuous and amounts to straight-up disinformation rather than being informative.

People freaking out about lootboxes is fine, that’s awesome, but I’d much rather people freaked out about lootboxes after doing research about the ways in which they suck; saying things like ‘you can only get Vader by purchasing him’, which plenty did, is plainly false despite being widely disseminated. As for the ‘rewards reduced by 75%’ bit in the title, that is ALSO false; ‘rewards’ were not reduced, one specific reward was, and it was reduced to match the cost of the hero it was meant to buy.

I would rather people be mad about things that actually exist for real reasons. Anyone who cries about Destiny 2 being P2W has just fucking obviously never been a part of an ACTUAL pay-to-win situation, and the whole ‘THEY REDUCED REWARDS 75%’ is equally stupid.

Be mad. That’s great. Make them do things differently because completely obliterating player agency sucks; the Fortnite devs got that (the latest state of STW is basically all about reducing RNG pains and improving our ability to rank heroes up to higher rarities and modify weapon rolls), and the EA devs got it, too, as soon as Uncle Mickey stomped on their fucking necks. Good! I -hope- people make lockboxes better, or otherwise-ordinary progression systems rely on them less!

Don’t be mad about made-up bullshit that means nothing. Pissing and moaning about invented problems and hyperbolic nonsense is unhelpful. Research the mechanics, find the specific things that are causing agony, and complain about those things. Do some fucking research and math before you go immediately from reading a bullshit article that says Vader will take 40 hours to unlock to spewing that same false information everywhere you can find to spew it.

You know what takes 40 hours to unlock? The fucking alt-fire for the Heavy’s final gun. Oh my Christ. It’s so beautiful and I am -agonizingly- close. OH HEY AND I CAN’T GET IT FROM A LOOTCRATE. Ever! It’s not for sale.

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zeko_rena

If it was free to play with its little precious cash shop I might give it a go, but I am not going to spend $100 NZD on this.

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Sorenthaz

Also fun stuff:

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A Dad Supreme

I get the jokes, but to someone like me and probably millions others… StarCraft and WarThunder simply aren’t Star Wars.

When people want to play one thing and you present them with something else, it’s like saying “Here is a hotdog. Eat this. I know you want to eat a hamburger but this hotdog is a better deal.”

That’s good if someone likes hotdogs and hamburgers I guess.

Problem is, WarThunder doesn’t do what SWBF2 does and StarCraft although fun back in the day, isn’t the same type of game at all so those ads are kind of false analogies.

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zeko_rena

I don’t see it that way, the way I look at it is more, “hey look at us we are not greedy assholes”

Not
“You wanna play a FPS like Star Wars, play this instead!”

More of a company image thing, at least that is my take on it haha.

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A Dad Supreme

“I don’t see it that way, the way I look at it is more, “hey look at us we are not greedy assholes”

Starcraft2: This is free* with an asterisk, however; only the Wings of Liberty single-player campaign, all of its multiplayer content, and co-op commanders are included in this statement. The other three single-player campaigns have to be purchased separately**,

Well if it’s a company thing, they both are greedy assholes.

At least EA didn’t say it was “free” when it turns out not to be completely free like Blizzard did with asterisks all over the fine print.

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zeko_rena

I don’t see releasing a triple A game as greedy, and Wings of Liberty by itself IS a game.

As soon as they said it would be going free I expected it to be Wings of Liberty, lets not forget that Wings of Liberty was released first, and the two follow up expansions came later.

Co-op commanders came much later, so I was surprised and glad to see them include game modes released after Wings of Liberty as part of the free package.

At least Blizzard didn’t add an in game store to buy cards, or whatever it is they are using for the equipment in Battlefront 2

I think Blizzard is one of the few companies I would not accuse of being greedy, a bit arrogant maybe, but not greedy.

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Sorenthaz

I calculated the estimated time required to upgrade all cards in the game from level 3 to level 4 from StarWarsBattlefront

It will take 4,528 hours of gameplay (or $2100) to unlock all base-game content.

Whew lad, what a sense of pride and accomplishment.

That many hours is around 188 days straight btw.

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Sorenthaz

Levelcap dominating people in his fully upgraded (p2w) A-wing has cemented my decision to not buy this game… I don’t have the money to compete with this. from StarWarsBattlefront

And here’s the real problem: Star Cards can heavily impact gameplay, to the point where the starfighter gameplay is literally pay to win. It’ll take months for non-payers to catch up unless they get stupidly lucky or grind insane amounts of hours into it.

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Sally Bowls

Perhaps EA can enhance your pride and accomplishment by getting rid of those annual releases while adding a subscription?

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/309344/EA_CEO_Its_only_a_matter_of_time_before_games_embrace_subscription_services.php

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Melissa McDonald

Meh, who cares. Darth Vader is overrated.

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Michael

This is slightly misleading, as the only reward changes are to the Campaign completion (one time reward). While still super lame, they have not adjusted reward amounts for Multiplayer.

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camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

Live Shat Report seems a very apropos typo.

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Sorenthaz

Supposedly they only reduced the campaign rewards by that amount because the intention is you’ll buy a specific hero that used to cost 20k and now will cost 5k.

Either way, doesn’t address the actual problem with lockboxes, which is that they exist in such a ridiculous manner that directly affects in-game performance.

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Jack Kerras

See, this I agree with.

People bitching about the 75% reduction in ‘credit income’ is bullshit; it is in one specific instance, and it is obviously not a real problem, therefore likely to be ignored despite the fact that it is a major source of the outcry here.

Widespread bitching about actual problems instead of made-up sensationalist bullshit is much more likely to have some fucking teeth.

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Armsbend

Here is a smart thread on reddit:

Disney promotes underage gambling in upcoming Star Wars game. from StarWarsBattlefront

That truly is how you’d enact any change. EA is a flea compared to Disney. EA is a flea compared to the Star Wars IP. damage them as license holders and it’s possible you could get a ripple effect through the license holders.

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Sally Bowls

Although flea is overstating it a bit. Disney bought all of LucasFilm, including the Star Wars IP, for $4B. EA is currently worth $35B.

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A Dad Supreme

“Disney promotes underage gambling in upcoming Star Wars game”

I had a late start to the day, but I’m failing to see how it’s promoting gambling at all.

From what I read, you either grind the hours out and use in-game money to get your preferred Hero you want over time, or you use real money and buy the preferred Hero you want instantly.

Since in both cases you get exactly the Hero you purchase without “chance”, where does the gambling aspect come into play?

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Michael

Loot boxes are gambling. Disney owns Star Wars, so they are responsible for all things Star Wars > Disney allows EA to use Star Wars IP > EA puts Loot boxes into Star Wars Game.

Disney is responsible for everything that is going on with the Star Wars IP and thus, they are promoting gambling due to them supporting this.

You also can’t buy the hero you want instantly. You buy loot boxes, they have credits (AKA Overwatch style) that eventually allow you to buy the hero instantly. You can earn the heroes in game eventually, but it takes 10 hours per hero (with the reduction). That is utterly absurd. This game is not an MMO. It is like Call of Duty. Most people won’t play it longer then 10-20 hours.

Also, just because it is a choice, does not mean it is not still gambling. Regardless of if they let you buy the things directly or not — loot boxes are still gambling. Loot boxes are in the game.

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A Dad Supreme

“You can earn the heroes in game eventually, but it takes 10 hours per hero (with the reduction). That is utterly absurd.”

Perhaps, but still not gambling.

“Loot boxes are gambling. Disney owns Star Wars, so they are responsible for all things Star Wars > Disney allows EA to use Star Wars IP > EA puts Loot boxes into Star Wars Game.”

True, but still not gambling in this case regarding Heroes, which is what everyone is upset about. Heroes aren’t in the lootboxes.

“You also can’t buy the hero you want instantly. You buy loot boxes, they have credits (AKA Overwatch style) that eventually allow you to buy the hero instantly.

Still not gambling. You buy the boxes and they contain credits. They don’t say you have a chance to get credits, pets, cards or heroes. They just give you credits; you are getting exactly what you pay for… game credits to buy the Hero.

I’m not defending EA, but this is dumb saying it’s gambling when it isn’t based on chance. It’s purely based on either an insane grind or real money. That isn’t gambling.

“Regardless of if they let you buy the things directly or not — loot boxes are still gambling. Loot boxes are in the game.”

Now you’re getting ridiculous. Loot boxes are in EVERY game. You don’t expect Disney to get worried when any game recently made sells the boxes as the industry standard.

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Crowe

Dunno what games you are playing but there’s plenty out there without lootboxes.

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A Dad Supreme

“Dunno what games you are playing but there’s plenty out there without lootboxes.”

Dunno what games you are playing, but those games can’t be of any good quality or recently made without lootboxes.

The vast majority of any new game comes with lootboxes. If you’re talking cheap 2D indie games like they have on Humble Bundle all the time, there’s a reason they don’t sell them and/or they only cost $3 to buy the game (no one would buy them in games of that poor quality)

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Sorenthaz

comment image

Well they’re starting to do something on Twitter.

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Greaterdivinity

Game Informer was reporting that credit rewards for the campaign were cut by 75% as well (from 20K down to 5K), no word on multiplayer credit earning compared to before the change yet.

So assuming those got reduced as well, we’re back to square one.

Also, too little too late. They already spoke volumes about how EA views their customers, I just feel awful for all the hard working devs that had to survive through what was likely some brutal crunching. They should be celebrating in the week leading up to launch, but instead they’re watching their game get ripped apart by press and fans due to monetization bullshit.

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Sorenthaz

Supposedly it’s only campaign rewards because you’re only intended to buy a specific hero with those funds. Why you don’t just unlock it instead of needing to buy it is of course a question, but the easy answer for that is that it gets people comfortable with buying heroes for credits.

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Armsbend

They know who they work for. This isn’t some huge surprise to them.

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Greaterdivinity

Doesn’t matter, it’s still shitty. They’re working at a good developer (DICE makes good shooters), making great games (Battlefront plays great, so does the Battlefield series), and putting in some amazing work.

They can’t control what EA does to the monetization, they can only make the best game possible. They deserve better headlines focusing on the amazing parts of the game (incredible visuals and audio that are some of the Star Wars-yest stuff that ever Star Wars’d, great gameplay, solid performance, deliving on a lot of fan requests like a campaign and more heroes etc.) along with whatever the bad parts are (read that the story isn’t particularly great, but oh well). Not have the entire game drowned out by a tsunami of negativity over monetization.

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Armsbend

DICE used to be kings amongst men. I get so sad when I think about how great BFBC2 was.

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CMDR Crow

After the total letdown and boredom of Cata, I fell HARD into BFBC2. The unlocks there actually felt good. You learned the class as you went and in a reasonable amount of time you had the kit.

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Sorenthaz

I mean the same could be said about Bioware and its older titles. EA corrodes everything.

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Armsbend

Yes. When I was around 8 EA was great. I used to stare at their packaging and manuals for hours (The Bard’s Tale, Wasteland).

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Blaaznar

Voting with my wallet here and not buying EA or Ubisoft anything for a while now.

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Dug From The Earth

This is nothing more than EA trying to push things to the limit as much as possible. Each time they step over the line, they pull back just enough to quell the masses for a short while.

There is no doubt that the only goal of EA, is to get as much money from customers as possible, regardless of if they make a good game or not. The steps they are willing to go through to do so is what is so appalling to many.

To add insult to injury, customers know exactly why EA is doing things like grinds, lockboxes, etc, and yet, EA still feels the need not to be honest and straight forward about their intentions. Rather than saying, “Hey, we want to encourage the purchase of lockboxes, so we are putting a hefty grind to unlock things”, they instead say, “We believe players get a sense of pride and accomplishment from grinding…”. When they do stuff like this, its like pouring lemon juice on the open wound.

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thirtymil

Uncanny, because I’ve also dropped my enthusiasm for this game by 75%

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Tobasco da Gama

And they apparently also reduced the credit rewards that you get from gameplay at the same time, so this does basically nothing to address the fundamental complaints.

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Jack Kerras

I don’t want to flog this TOO hard, but that just isn’t true.

Credit rewards were not changed save for the reward payout for the campaign completion box. The campaign completion box had enough credits in it to immediately unlock Iden Versio, the protagonist, as a multiplayer hero. Both her cost and the reward from the campaign-completion box were reduced 75%.

Every other credit stream has remained the same.

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cerement

There’s an even more important reddit thread on this whole fiasco: all of this complaining is already factored into their financials. They’ve already sold some ungodly number of copies – even if every redditor (and MassivelyOPer) canceled, it wouldn’t be significant enough to even register …

This is a very common strategy used for scandals that are linked directly to financials – they will fuck you a little less than you expected and hope that you don’t do the math on just how much less it is. All the while they will take advantage of the PR resulting from the reduced fucking.

u/RiceBaker100: If you read the actual post … you’d know that there is no “don’t fall for it” option, everything game companies like EA do is calculated, they’ve already factored all of this stuff into their business model and what we got was the best option for their bottom line, period.

Edit: So far, the only company that’s getting a pass on this whole mess is Nintendo “for valuing gameplay over lootboxes”

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Michael

I am glad that they don’t have loot boxes in the games they create, but tbh I think that is just a strange advantage Nintendo has with being out of touch with Western Video Game Culture. They certainly have plenty of micro-transactions though.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

Golden Goose meet Axe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/01/electronic-arts-shares-drop-after-wall-street-raises-concerns-over-star-wars-game-sales.html

Cursor down to the article to find this:

“If Star Wars can encourage users to spend real money on virtual goods (like FIFA) the game could drive meaningful upside to F’18 and ’19 EPS, but this is not a certainty,” O’Shea wrote in a note to clients Wednesday entitled “Star Wars Battlefront 2: A Trick Or a Treat?”

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Rumm

Still takes about 7000 hours to unlock all of your star cards (unless you pay money of course).

That’s bordering on 15 years of WoW playtime.

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Jack Kerras

I’ll just be over here, never having bought a single pack for cash and having the classes I play and the specs I enjoy maxed out within my first 30 hours of multiplayer gameplay. Also Vader!

I still have one last unlock to wangle with my favorite gun (the final one that unlocks for the Heavy class), but that’s not something that you can get in a lootcrate.

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Armsbend

And it all goes away when they release the third game next year. EA is trashy and the people who buy their games are trashy as well.

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Jack Kerras

Hey, step off.

I like DICE’s games, even when EA makes them do stupid shit. I’ve never bought a game they made and not gotten more than my money’s worth, and I don’t buy lootcrates for anything but in-game earnings.

Why would I pay to unlock things that you’re meant to play for? That’s just… paying extra money to not play the game you bought.

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Terren Bruce

They’re not going not release a third game next year. That’s why they’re calling it a live service this time. There is unlikely to be a new Battlefront this console generation. Instead they intend to continually add things to BF2 for years to come.

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Lethality

The game is amazing, and the only players who care about this aren’t the kind of players I want to play with. It’a a Star Wars game that puts you smack in the middle of the movies like no other experience… don’t worry about it.

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Michael

Enjoy getting wrecked by people who paid more money then you.

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Greaterdivinity

Cool, guess we’ll never play together. Why wouldn’t you want to play with me? I don’t shout or insult people, I don’t rage, I try to be helpful for teammates and aware of my surroundings. I just don’t like long, arbitrary grinds to unlock things that I want to actually play in the $60 game I just purchased. Things that used to be automatically unlocked in games for decades before developers realized that they could monetize them and turn them into Skinner Boxes. What about me makes me someone you wouldn’t want to play with?

Do you just pick the contrarian position on everything? Because it sure as hell seems that way.

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Lethality

There are different cost structures today. You bought the original Unreal 20 years ago for $79 – but that didn’t include any free downloadable content, and more importantly it didn’t include running the game as a perpetual service. Both of those things have to be considered.

Do you think this is somehow unfairly gouging players, “forcing” them to pay more money? It isn’t and it does nothing of the sort! This, once again, is all on the players.

Play a great game, or don’t. But there’s really no room for complaining about how to pay for it.

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Michael

Incorrect. http://unreal.wikia.com/wiki/Unreal_(video_game) Unreal was originally 54.95$ Keep making stuff up though!

It also had tons of free downloadable content. Mods would like a word with you. You clearly have bought into the marketing ploys of EA though.

Waaaaaaah video game development is more expensive then ever now! (Likely said by someone who has no clue that there are barely any programmers left at Video Game studios and most design is done in heavily scripted engines created by a handful of programmers who often used pre-built engines like Unreal and Unity to build said scripted engines)

I hope you enjoy this game as it will likely be one of the last one DICE makes before EA shuts them down.

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Jack Kerras

Adjusting for general inflation from May of 1998, $54.95 is about $83 now. Thought I’d throw that out there.

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Greaterdivinity

I think it’s presenting players with the choice to either spend dozens of hours per unlock, or potentially hundreds per unlock, to play the game the way they want to and enjoy it. It’s already bad enough with weapon/attachment/card unlocks in games, but locking iconic Star Wars hero characters like that? That’s too far. Monetize all the cool cosmetics for characters – there’s plenty of alternate outfits for grunts and hero characters that folks would likely spend good money on. But locking this stuff behind grinds/paywalls is bullshit.

You can defend it because you enjoy being a contrarian, but it’s a lonely island to be on.

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Utakata

He should run YouTube sessions about all his contrarian gripes; he’ll have lots of little “friends” then. Maybe even make $50 k/month using Patreon from it. Just saying. /sigh

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Michael

It is also bad because a lot of this stuff was just free in Battlefront 1.

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Sorenthaz

It’s not just the Star Wars heroes, it’s also ships. Certain ships are locked behind the system as well.

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Robert Mann

Cool, because most of the people who don’t want to pay $500+ for the content of a game will be glad to not play with those who do. :)

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Utakata

It must be Hell for you if players think this game is amazing while caring about this. I’ll even wager some care about this because they really want to play it.

But you know…when I play “amazing games”, I really don’t care much for the opinions of other players. As long as we’re all enjoying ourselves, right?

what-4
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what-4

Part of the problem here folks.

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Rumm

That’s the thing – it is a great game. DICE is an incredible developer (I have something like 600 hours in BF4). Star Wars is a great IP. But monetization should and does matter. Being able to pay money to gain an advantage over other players should and does matter. I watched some matches of XFactor playing Boba Fett where he was literally one shotting other hero characters because he spent money on loot boxes and got enough credits from them to buy upgraded star cards. That’s the definition of pay-to-win, and he’ll maintain that advantage for months because of the massive undertaking that is required to unlock those same cards by actually playing the game.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

This is undoubtedly true. Players who care about the gaming environment in general and might have given this title a look-see, will stay away. The fewer players who dip in to a title means the less revenue EA will get from the game, which will shorten its lifespan. So, enjoy while you can.

Skoryy
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Skoryy

Remember when EA won Worst Company of the Year in 2013? 2012? But I’m sure that reckoning is gonna happen aaaaaaany day now. Yup, aaaaaaany day now.

This all started when most everyone accepted some players buying in at below cost, while the others footed the bill. This isn’t a morality play, this is business 101 at work.

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Lethality

There will never a be a time where Star Wars games are not made.

CapnLan
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CapnLan

This has been very interesting to watch coming from someone who was never interested in the game from the start. What’s even more interesting is watching how communities in other games have reacted. The amount of “Thank you for not being EA” threads has been significant. That has now become the baseline for not being the worst. Is your game studio EA? No? Then you aren’t the worst by default. That’s how low EA has gone. Grats to EA on not just lowering the bar, but taking the bar and smashing into the ground six feet under.

I’m also quite proud of all the people who took a stand on this (death threats excluded, of course). Even though I never cared for Battlefront 2, lootbox mechanics absolutely affect me in all the other games I play. I’m all for civil discourse, but sometimes you really do need to take a step back and say “No. Fuck you.” Keep saying “Fuck you” to lootboxes my friends. The fight isn’t done yet.

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silverlock

Is EA the worst? I thought WB interactive had that distinction.

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Robert Mann

WB is heading into the lootbox fray while a vile gleam in their eye, certainly. That said, EA has far more and deeper transgressions.

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jealouspirate

They made another change that was of course unannounced – they also decreased the rate at which you earn credits, essentially making this change meaningless outside of a PR crisis mode response.

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Terren Bruce

That’s actually not true. They lowered the costs of the CAMPAIGN rewards, which are only intended for you to buy the campaign hero, because her costs were reduced along with all the other heroes.

Massively once again went with the misleading click-baitey title instead of being accurate. I mean it shouldn’t have been hard to have a snarky title and still been accurate so I don’t understand why they felt the need to be purposely misleading.

Polyanna
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Polyanna

We welcome the conversation. In fact, this Wednesday we’d like you to join us for a Reddit AMA with some of the key leads on our team.

Most downvoted thread in reddit history inc.

Also, in related news, EA removed the “Refund” button from their website and now you have to wait in phone menu purgatory to get one.

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Jack Kerras

The ‘Refund’ button is and has always been available for games which are preordered but not yet actually charged. Do-it-yourself ‘refunds’ are available because the game hasn’t actually gone on your card yet; as soon as it has, you have to contact support, just like you always did.

This is yet another piece of sensationalist bullshit that folks are selling because they’re just generally mad at the company. I dig it! I get being mad, keep doing it, it’s making Disney twist EA’s arm and I like it! …but be mad about shit that matters, not about stupid bullshit that doesn’t, or else your mad-ness isn’t going to be taken seriously no matter HOW widespread it gets.

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thalendor

Maybe they are really feeling the backlash where it counts? There’d be no reason for them to remove the refund button if very few people were using it. This gives me a little bit of hope that the scourge of lootboxes can be beat back.

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Armsbend

If anyone considers this a win – and buys it – then THEY [YOU] are the problem.

pepperzine
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pepperzine

Too late. I was going to purchase it, as I had a decent enough time in the last one. However between this and their lockboxes having more than just cosmetic, I will not. I know three other people who were going to buy it as well, but changed their minds due to all this drama.

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George

Count me in… I will play it when it goes free on Origin access, but I won’t pay for it.

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Wolfyseyes

Yea, but they also cut the single-player campaign reward by about as much, too: to 5,000 Credits down from 20,000. Doesn’t seem like they’ve totally learned… :/

EDIT: Kay, others have pointed this out, too. Serves me for not scrolling down the comment string before posting. XD

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Utakata

Now the pride and accomplishment is: “I’m altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further?” o.O

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

I scrolled down a bit and saw a twitch stream from boogie 3988. He’s calmed down a bit even after what the game did to him. :)

https://clips.twitch.tv/AdorableTenderCrowLitFam

That’s just… :\

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Jack Kerras

Yeah. What those don’t actually say is that it takes about two minutes to beat an Arcade Mode game, and that it gives 100 Credits… that’s about twice as much income as the same amount of time spent in one of the game’s multiplayer modes, and it gives you credits that are useful in that mode.

I think that’s fucking stupid, and that they should reward credits based on time and performance while taking into account the short games you play in Arcade Mode, removing the cap in so doing.

Still, they did this to give people a way to play offline/splitscreen without allowing botters to just cheat their way to immediate unlocks, I imagine. Their solution is fucking punishingly stupid (see: their other systems), but they did it for a reason even if the result was dumb as Hell.

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Alex Malone

Shock horror! EA release yet another sub-par game with predatory monetisation….

Wait. Isn’t that what always happens? Whats the issue here?

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CMDR Crow

In actuality, it is worse!

EA is releasing what is, by all accounts, a really GOOD game that is marred by the business model. If this were a game people were all “meh” about that would be one thing… but everyone who has played is basically saying that the game is really solid with a great single player campaign. Plenty of approve of, which makes it worse :/

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Iain B

Big deal, the game is still p2w.

And because they dropped the price of the heroes they also dropped the amount of credits that you get from the single-player campaign to compensate for it. Screw EA.

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Sray

It’s SWTOR all over again: introduce your progression stuff with an ridiculous grind that can be eased by spending real money; people get outraged; EA “listens” and responds by lowering the still monetized grind to the level that they probably wanted to do to begin with. This is still not good enough.

Announcing your objections on the Internet is only half the battle: you have to follow through and not buy the game.

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George

What? Played SWTOR for years, never had this problem. This business model is of a complete different league (in a very worse sense).

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Sray

The Galactic Command system is exactly the same as this: a horrendous RNG based grind that can be remarkably eased simply by opening your wallet and purchasing XP boosters. And it’s only available to those who are already subscribers on the hook for $15 a month. So those who are/have already paying/paid faced with gigantic grinds to get the good stuff, or paying even more to ease the ridiculous grind.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

They can still go FLIPZORP themselves.

Skyrim,
Grim Dawn,
American Truck Simulator,
Tomb of Annihilation,
Doki Doki Literature Club
Divinity Original Sin 1 (I haven’t even bought 2 yet),
Project Gorgon,
Terraria,
Starbound,

and a wishlist of 183 other games on Steam, none of the EA, means I don’t need them for my computing entertainment.

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Alex Js.

I still wouldn’t bother with it, and not just because of p2w lootboxes… Underneath it’s just a re-skinned, castrated (no 64-player battles) BF1, and I already own and played BF1 enough times to get bored of it. As for the single-player “campaign”: today many streamers on Twitch will be streaming this part, so I’ll just watch it there, for free ;)

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Arktouros

I love this guy.

Companies are not your friends. Companies are not out to do you any favors. The fundamental issue is and continues to be that accomplishments in games can’t have value when they simply sell you a method to bypass them.

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Sorenthaz

It’s not even the accomplishment factor. People can literally pay money to get direct upgrades (no downsides or anything) to their stuff. Apparently infantry isn’t made too broken with the Star Cards, but with starfighters it’s definitely P2W right now with shenanigans like +30-40% damage, +20% evasion, higher rate of fire… and apparently in the bigger maps where starfighters/infantry/vehicles are all present, there’s very little way to deal with starfighters because infantry don’t get the proper weapons for it until way later down their progression paths.

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Armsbend

My choice quote from that post:
“The reason this works is two-fold: 1. Journalists who cover the initial outrage feel that, ethically, they have to post the follow up but probably aren’t going to do the research to figure out if the changes are substantial or effective at fixing the actual issue. (Edit: I’ve started seeing articles pop up already about the “changes” and at best, all they do is parrot the good research that various Redditors have done.)

Massively? Is this you?

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Arktouros

Yes.

But, ya know, when I pointed out the minimal to no differences it’s “being Snarky.” :|

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Rhime

” Loyal fans who get fed up with it and decide not to buy the game are desperately searching for a reason to forgive EA so they can play their neato shooty game so they’ll take any crumbs they are given.”
I honestly think this statement isn’t exactly true anymore. Fans are smarter now and less patient and accepting of the shitty tactics companies use to lighten the wallet. The lockbox issue currently isn’t about reducing costs, it’s about eliminating them and cash shops completely from all games. People no longer accept P2W or even “cosmetic upgrades” ad nauseum.
The thing about changes in games like this is that they are quite transparent and there are so many social media options now that not being informed about such changes is no longer a reason to lose out on paying for games. It’s all out there. the beauty of this is that the mob rules and almost everyone out here in gaming land loves a good mob and the game companies know it. At least they better figure it out soon….

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Armsbend

They are smarter now. I hope you are kidding.

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Bhima Jenkins

Unfortunately the profits of these companies from lootboxes says otherwise. Its like that old joke: A man says to a woman,”Would you have sex with me for a million dollars?” She says, “Yeah, sure.” “How about $10 dollars?” Woman says,” Psshh… what do you take me for?” Man says,”We’ve already established what you are, we are now just negotiating the cost.”

EA has pushed the envelope to the extreme, and the backlash will hurt them a little in the long run, but then all they have to do is taper some of the scum back, and people won’t be as vocal–they will still get their money from lootboxes.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

Quite agree with you and the reddit poster.

Death by a million tiny cuts.

Flipzorps, all of them.

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CMDR Crow

And people will STILL attack you and side with the company even when this stuff is clear-as-day.

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Anthony Clark

P2W is a fail.

EA deserves what comes to them.

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FG3000

even at its worse it wasnt pay 2 win lol. That term has lost all meaning

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Bhima Jenkins

In a PvP-based game, Battlefront is the textbook definition of P2W. This isn’t a new costume to amaze your friends, its buying pure power. This is P2W in any game, but made MUCH worse in a PVP-based one.

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Sorenthaz

Yep, you’re literally able to get significant performance upgrades. It may not matter as much for Infantry, but starfighters are definitely broken right now. And keep in mind that it’ll take months/hundreds of hours of gameplay for normal players to be able to even reach what a player can obtain with a few hundred bucks.

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Armsbend

This argument is so trite and boring now. This argument more or less ruined games. Who are you arguing in favor of? The corporate office? The goddamned credit card warriors?

Keep on keepin’ on the good fight I guess.

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Anthony Clark

Buying advantages in-game is wrong. Lockboxes mean I don’t buy a game. If I bought the game, I should get the content of said game. I’m over this nickel and diming of the game community.

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FG3000

serious question, how can you tell the difference between someone who played more hours than you and simply has better cards? Versus maybe a guy who dropped $50?

Unless youre playing this game VERY hardcore or no-life’ing the game you are ALREADY behind and the playing field isnt level. This is a problem with the progression system clear as day. How about a guy who buys the game on Xmas? Literally everyone will have better cards than them which means hundreds of hours of unfair PVP gameplay until he gets cards.

My overall point is this, this progression system values the “Time Rich” and “Money Rich”. Even if they removed the ability to buy things with real money, most players would still be screwed .

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Schmidt.Capela

I, personally, don’t care. I will never, ever, play a competitive game where paying real money can give any gameplay advantage. There are things money should never be able to buy, and IMHO a competitive advantage is one of those.

(I do tend to avoid competitive games where time played or skill can grant bonuses, though. I like PvP when it’s evenly balanced. It’s the reason I almost only play PvP in dedicated PvP games where either there is no progression or all progression is horizontal.)

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Sally Bowls

a competitive game where paying real money can give any gameplay advantage.

This was the traditional view in the past. Seems Reasonable.

But I can’t think of any current MMO that would past that test. Gems to gold to trading post means you can get Ascended gear a lot quicker than via ingame gear. Virtually everything is available for RL$ in EVE. While Wow doesn’t have [m]any BiS BoEs, some gold can certainly help. Now for those and most MMOs that come to mind, you can spend time in lieu of money; most things are not RL$ only. But some money can save you dozens or hundreds of hours.

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Anthony Clark

My point is that this game is not worth it, and EA has made things worse as they always have. They only lowered costs on some heroes, not across the board. Just favorite, original series heroes. Half-ass attempt at damage control.

EA is a horrible company. I tired the beta for this, and it was just like the first one which I wish I had never bought.

EA should have stayed in sports games. Everything they’ve bought into they’ve destroyed.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

missing the part of how the EA CSR post on the subreddit gained the record for most downvoted post in reddit’s history (tho considering that not too long ago vote counts were not only fuzzed but also normalized). tho i saw alot of memes about people on reddit tuning in to join in the downvote regardless of any interest in the thing simply to hive mind it up. and ofc EA hate is easy internet points on reddit even when they’re not being stupid like in this episode.

anyways please enjoy some related past:

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment. The unlocks are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of selecting initial values based upon data from the Open Beta, Battlefront 2 will go over a typical gamers head.
There’s also EA’s other adjustments made to milestone rewards before launch, which are deftly woven into this game development- the game’s philosophy draws heavily from average per-player credit earn rates, for instance.
The gamers understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate that we’ll be making constant adjustments, to realise that it’s not just fun- they say something deep about GAMES. As a consequence people who dislike EA truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, that we ensure that players have challenges that are compelling, rewarding, and of course attainable.
I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Mat Everett’s genius wit unfolds itself on their computer screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂
And yes, by the way, i DO have a Mass Effect tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for appreciative gamers’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

Yo DK, we covered the Reddit thread mess yesterday… it’s linked a couple of times in the post up top too.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

ahh ok i forgot the add the disclaimer in my post “unless it’s already been covered” :PPPPP

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

Bravo!

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

not my pasta, picked that one up on reddit this morning :D

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

You take your indifferent pink clapping and like it! I searched the interwebs for like 10 seconds for that gif.

Now Im beat. LUNCH TIME!

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

haha i did like it! :D

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

Cause i cant do internets

indifferent-clapping.gif
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silverlock

Um whats the guy in the upper right doing? nvm I don’t want to know.

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

Id love to get a full picture of the lady in green.

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Gen'Challa 🦆

Though they also reduced the number of credits you get for finishing the campaign by… 75%.

Dantos
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Dantos

didnt they also cut the credits you get for completing the campaign from 20k to 5k?

Reward for completing the campaign changed from 20,000 credits to 5,000 credits. from StarWarsBattlefront

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Jack Kerras

This is all they changed.

The 20k from the box was either A) a boost towards whatever hero you want, or B) an immediate unlock of Iden, the main character from the campaign.

Incidentally, they also reduced Iden’s cost to 5k… so now you can either have a boost towards a hero you want, or unlock Iden immediately. …just like you could before.

The cost of heroes has been reduced, but my income per-game has not changed, and credit rewards from achievements-in-progress I viewed before and after the patch have ALSO not changed. So… income is no different, Hero costs are 75% lower, and the Credit reward from the campaign was reduced because it was intended as an immediate, ‘free’ unlock of Iden in case you identified with her during your Campaign playtime.

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Still P2W though. This is not a good deal at all.

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Jack Kerras

I always hear people throwing ‘P2W’ around, and I feel like no one who says it all the fucking time has ever actually played a game where pay-to-win was a thing. :/

Let’s imagine a tank game for a sec. In this tank game, you have AP rounds, and you have HE rounds. HE are great and do maximum damage against light tanks, AP are great and do maximum damage against heavy tanks. These are purchased as part of the resupply cost whenever you repair and refit your tank after battle.

Let’s also imagine that this game is F2P, and that there is a -third- type of ammunition which acts as HE against light tanks or AP against heavy tanks, and also does 20% more damage in all cases. These cannot be bought for in-game money and they are available only for cash purchases. It functionally ignores an otherwise-important gameplay mechanic and just deals more damage as part of the package.

THAT is a P2W system. In that case, paying doesn’t guarantee that you will win a given tank battle, but it absolutely guarantees that NOT paying means you essentially are not a real part of any given gunfight between people who have paid. You might be able to come to the party, but you are gonna be leaving early, with itty bitty smoldering bits of tank in tow.

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FG3000

the game isnt P2W, the progression system is what needed to be thrown out

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Schmidt.Capela

If you can start playing competitively before you have unlocked and upgraded everything, then allowing players to speed up progression by paying money (and, in particular, when there isn’t a cap to how much players can spend doing it) makes the game pay to win.

So, yeah, it’s “just” the progression, but that alone is enough to make this game into a disgusting P2W one.

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Jack Kerras

I fundamentally disagree with this.

The same materials are available to all comers, free and otherwise. Getting there faster doesn’t make it pay-to-win; having a type of ammo you purchase that makes you deal enough damage to go from a 3-shot to a 2-shot, but having that ammo be purchasable only with real money, is pay-to-win.

Making a system which CAN reward meta-friendly ‘gear’ upgrades, but which also ALWAYS grants crafting parts to craft those upgrades is a fairly deterministic ‘insert XP to level’ style system, plus loot drops which are occasionally (not always!) relevant to your desired build. That’s just… every MMO, only this time they were fucking stupid enough to put it in the context of a widely-hated, extremely-popular-to-piss-on F2P mechanic.

This is just a whale-friendlier version of the $50 ‘unlock all the guns!’ thing in Battlefield games, and it STILL involves the same lootboxes to get all the parts you need for those specific guns, etc., to get them into their best possible state.

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Fenryr Grey

how do you call it when your pre order bonus weapon does twice the dmg?

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Jack Kerras

I would consider this comment relevant if it were actually true, but it’s not, to the best of my knowledge.

Pre-order bonus weapons are unlockable by anyone in a short time; it’s just an early unlock of what is functionally a tier-2 weapon. T0 out of the box, T1 from 50-ish class kills, T2 is the preorder weapon (I must assume 250-ish class kills, since I have them all and don’t know what they usually cost), T3 is the 500-kills weapon for a given class.

Preorders also give you a free unlock of the first of four attachments for a given weapon. For the snubby Assault SMG, this is something that reduces maximum weapon spread, slightly increasing effective range and accuracy of a crazy little shit-bullets-ASAP variety gun.

Also, it’s much less about ‘more damage’ and more about ‘different handling’; the little snubby Assault-class SMG you get as a preorder bonus is fucking BRUTAL in close, but it’s really, really, punishingly bad when you aren’t basically stepping on someone’s toes. It’s great for close-in assault, but if you’re in an open area, you really wanna slap on your T0 blaster rifle, it’s much more handleable and useful in wide-open areas.

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CMDR Crow

Pride and Accomplishment?

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CMDR Crow

That’s the part that makes this a damn shame. By all reports, the game is super good and really solid. I can see myself picking it up down the line on a big sale post-release crazy. I’d love to play the single player campaign.

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Schmidt.Capela

I would likely do that too if it was on Steam.

I’m not going to spend money on a store that uses the dead remains of my once favorite studio as some kind of macabre trophy.

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Schmidt.Capela

Which is just sad as, by all accounts, everything in the new game is better than in the previous version, except obviously the microtransactions-based progression system. If EA was less greedy this would be a much more enjoyable game.

wpDiscuz