The Daily Grind: Did Marvel Heroes just get the worst-managed MMORPG sunset of all time?

If you happened to catch the Massively OP Podcast this week, you heard my positively livid rant about the whole Marvel Heroes situation. Now, I have been doing this a long time, and I’ve weathered a lot of extremely painful sunsets of beloved games. But I’ve never, ever seen one handled as abysmally as the Marvel Heroes sunset.

Gazillion, Marvel, and Disney completely and utterly dropped the ball on telling players about the stepped-up sunset, to the point that many players had no idea what was going on. Nobody sent so much as an email or tweet or forum post to the players. The only company granting refunds? Microsoft, eating costs it shouldn’t have to eat. The only ones who did anything were laid-off rank-and-file devs who felt a duty to warn the public.

In fact, the only thing that comes close is Firefall, and that sunset came after a year of that weird thing with the Chinese cashmere company. It was bad, but it was understandable because it was basically a clownshow from the day Red 5 got bought out. This? There’s no excuse for a company as huge and wealthy as Disney/Marvel to screw over players in this way when either could have easily floated Gazillion and the game to the end of the year as promised. Or at least sent them a damn email of apology, knowing the banks were yoinking the servers on Monday. Nothing. We got nothing.

That makes Marvel Heroes the absolute worst-managed closure of all time in my mind, and the worst part is, since mainstream outlets don’t care much, Disney is getting away with it. Can you think of any other MMORPG sunsets that were worse?

Every morning, the Massively Overpowered writers team up with mascot Mo to ask MMORPG players pointed questions about the massively multiplayer online roleplaying genre. Grab a mug of your preferred beverage and take a stab at answering the question posed in today’s Daily Grind!
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81 Comments on "The Daily Grind: Did Marvel Heroes just get the worst-managed MMORPG sunset of all time?"

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Tia Nadiezja

To be the worst managed sunset, it would have to have been managed. It wasn’t. It was allowed to drive into a wall then someone with a producer title commented on the smoking wreckage after the fact.

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CasualSlacks

I was thinking about the original Real Time World’s APB lifecycle, but perhaps that was more disappointing to me than poorly handled. Even after the studio was shuddered in like September after being launched in July, the servers ran on fumes until December if memory serves.

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Robert Mann

Disney seems dead set on pissing people off recently. It’s pretty interesting, honestly. As in that “What ARE they thinking?” kind of interesting.

My theory is that there is some alien being held hostage by the leaders of the political parties, and that said alien has somehow become important to the high up people at Disney as the only thing which can calm their children’s cats, thus ensuring that Disney will do anything to avoid damage to said alien, and the political parties are using Disney to try to distract us from how terrible they both are…

*Made just for fun, I have no actual knowledge of alien hostages or crazy cats.*

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Tithian

It wasn’t managed, period. They just let shit go down. They arbitrarily changed the sunset date, and then missed the deadline, as a final reminder of that entire clusterfuck that was November. And they didn’t even bother with a message to people that didn’t check forums or reddit (aka, the vast majority).

By far the worst shut down of a game I’ve seen, ever. I’ll be actively avoiding games developed by teams that have hired any of the upper management of Gazillion.

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zoward

That wasn’t a sunset – that was a crater. There was no “managment” involved. No one group of people sat down and said, “here’s how we’re going to close this game in a well-planned, thoughtful way”. Disney revoked their license, banks stepped up to grab whatever thye could before everything fell apart … and Gazillion went immedately from “struggling” to “ceased to exist”. Granted a ton of mistakes were made along the way, but this sunset wasn’t planned – it just happened.

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Sally Bowls

Regarding “Microsoft, eating costs it shouldn’t have to eat” and the bad publicity Disney got, I suspect one of the takeaways from this tragedy is

DO NOT DEAL WITH INDIES!

If Disney licensed this to EA or ATVI or TenCent, I doubt this would have happened. Not because the employees of those companies are more ethical, just that the large company has
assets to be sued and reputation of other ongoing companies. Whereas if today Gazillion were hit with a billion dollar judgement for mistreating employees and customers, they would not care; they would pay zero as they have zero to pay.

So when EA’s decade-long Star Wars deal is up, who will they choose? Even if an aggressive indie company makes a good case, won’t some executives think “life is too short to risk another Gazillion, let’s stick with safe?”

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Sally Bowls

It was the worst I can recall.

Note: I don’t quite share the Disney anger. Technically, Disney did not directly control anything in Marvel. “We can’t make you do anything, but we can make you wish you had. – Army saying” Gazillion could have shut down the game without notice or portray superhereos being mean to kittens. It was their game. Disney just had the right and legal team to make Gazillion regret it back when Gazillion had assets.

Was it even possible for Disney to loan them the money as described? IDK, my assumption was that all the money and assets that Gadzillion had was owned by secured creditors. So if Disney had given Gadzillion a million dollars, then as soon as the cash hit the bank account, wouldn’t a creditor say “mine!” before it could be spent on months of game operation? If everyone had known six months ago that Gazillion was going to implode in November, then perhaps something could have been negotiated.

Disney certainly could not send any MH customer an email. Disney did not have their email addresses. I doubt the T&C the users clicked gave Gazillion the rights to give Disney the email addresses.

P.s.: TIL, sometimes typos like misspelling “shut down the game” as “shit down the game” feel right.

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kody

This is very different from the army. They treat you like they own you, but they don’t actually own you. Disney literally owns Marvel and all of its IPs.

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NeoWolf

If it didn’t, it comes pretty close as this shut down managed to screw everyone, their own employees included.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

This was a lousy way to do this and it reflects badly on everyone involved. The fact that decisions about a game are being made by entities 3 and 4 times removed from gamers is all you need to know about why it happened this way.

scrapper
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scrapper

Good on Microsoft for eating the costs and doing full refunds. Wish Steam did even partial ones for last 90 days or something.

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rafael12104

Yes. I have to admit. I didn’t not think that would happen. Microsoft eats the costs of a full refund.

Of course the more cynical side of me thinks that MS has their lawyers pounding the ground on who sue for the money back. MS fears no man or woman!

(**they might fear the mouse though given recent events.)

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Sally Bowls

Why would Microsoft sue anybody? Gazillion has no assets; it would be a waste of legal fees. All they can do is try to avoid repeating the mistake with future companies they sign.

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rafael12104

Oh, I’m saying they are looking around. They have lawyers on retainer.

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McGuffn

Yes it was, total disdain for the players. And again, at the hands of a multibillion dollar corporation.

The only thing that compares is the Korean mmo that shut down after the devs deleted their only copy of the game. That was pretty cool too. But it wasn’t exactly a sunset. Just stupidity.

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Schlag Sweetleaf

.

MICKEY LIED , MARVEL HEROES DIED.gif
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Bryan Correll

Tabula Rasa is the only contender I can think of. But as bad as the shenanigans behind the scenes were, at least they didn’t totally crap all over the players.

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syberghost

Hours before the shutdown, there were people in chat who had no idea any of it was happening. Sure, some were trolling; but there were legit people logging in and learning from chat that the game was shutting down.

Many because they asked “is the store not working for anybody else?”

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MesaSage

This may be the worst managed but not the worst excuse for shuttering by far. Glitch will likely always hold the record for the worst reasons to shut down.

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Angus Mcduff

After reading up on the history and current news, playing marvel heroes on both PC and Xbox and seeing the potential it had squandered by a company that couldn’t turn a profit from an IP that literally shat gold in the box office on a yearly basis since Iron Man… I commend Disney for removing this steaming pile of overpromised under delivered rubbish and doing it abruptly.

Sometimes the band aid needs to get ripped off, the quicker you bulldoze the ruins, the quicker you can put something better in it’s place. Avenger’s alliance 2 was the same thing.

Marvel heroes was destined to limp along while Marvel/Disney’s movies directed it’s fanbase to a subpar product that made more people angry who played for longer than a month. Did a select few enjoy it? sure.. but the bulk of people that tried it, or attempted to get into it were constantly let down.
I don’t fault Disney at all, the game was an embarrassment to the Marvel name, spend ten minutes playing Arkham Asylum or Injustice 2, hell even DCUO..compared to Marvel heroes those games are incredibly well done.

It sucks for people that spent money, and for developers that were working under fools, but a year from now no one is going to care about it, and a few years from now something else much better will come along.

miol
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miol

I wanted to say Tabula Rasa, but I totally forgot about its bittersweet closing event!

Relive the final moments of Tabula Rasa

Nick
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Nick

I’m sorry but I don’t blame Disney for pulling the license. Because of the CEO sexual harassment issues, players were creating very public YouTube videos demanding that Disney look into it. They probably just wanted the CEO removed but companies don’t play with sexual harassers during this current movement.

Unlike other companies that immediately cut ties with sexual harassers, Gaz dug their heels in and kept Dohrmann. I think this was the last straw. Prior to this Gaz would miss deadlines for specific events – like the Captain America anniversary event where only Gaz’s version of Captain America was missing because they hadn’t completed it yet. Every other game has theirs for the event. Gaz also previously had a Fantastic Four event that wasn’t approved by Marvel. Whether you love F4 or not, they promoted a brand Marvel was trying to diminish and seemingly in violation of the license.

The game even in its hey day was never profitable. At best they broke even for a time. The Devs commented on reddit – I think it was Doomsaw – that even when the game was beloved it wasn’t making money.

Add in tons and tons of player backlash over BuE, consoles, and a multitude of other gameplay issues – there was no need for them to keep the license going when combined with the CEO issue. Marvel Heroes was doing nothing but tarnishing the marvel brand.

Gaz had to manage their own finances and Gaz should have posted on their own forums what was going on. They had the most direct line of communication with the players of this game which only had a couple thousand players left. Why would Disney publicize this to their literal billions of fans?

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

tbh i don’;t think marvel was trying to diminish f4 at all. they canceled f4 books because they simply haven’t been selling since after the hickman run ended which is a hard act for the best writers to follow. but before they did they got a MASSIVE send off with secret wars 3.

also apparently the license was not renewed after dohrmann played hardball with disney in negotiations months ago. it’s just gaz never announced the game was ending and left it up to disney after months of silence and drama from gaz once the allegations broke out and people were demanding disney/marvel do something. except that thing was already done. and mostly the fault of dohrman.

Nick
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Nick

A dev had commented that they got their hand slapped for the unapproved F4 promotion. People can speculate but some argue Disney is distancing itself from F4 or was in the past due to the movie rights and the embarrassing films from Fox.

Marvel had actually renewed the license. It turns out we were lied to and PC was only renewed days before they were set to lose the license. Essentially there was a chance that the PC license would have explode and Gaz kept the online store going the entire time. Had the license not been renewed the PC game would have closed up shop even earlier.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

i thought the f4 thing in mh was clearly tied to sw3 around the same time. weird.

i think in my recent xmen fig hunting i saw some recent f4 models too in the bucnh (and i could tell the series were recent because the one had gwenpool in them and the other i was clued into by my friend who collects xmen action figs posting on a fb page announcing a new line up).

i had heard the opposite on the license renewal. that the license was lost months ago but negotiations to make it past the end of the year were sort of ongoing/sort of in limbo but dohrmann was playing hardball trying to get more money and other terms out of disney. then the allegations came out and disney walked away from teh table pretty quickly at that point but that was some time before disney announced the game would close themselves with gaz claiming otherwise or just radio silence.

even if there was some tentative agreement before the closure it certainly wasn’t a signed deal at that point. and we know well that gaz was being mismanaged to fuck and back by dohrman for his own personal issues/gain that saw dramatic downturn in pc playerbase and spending while the console versions were not terribly well recieved.

plannick
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plannick

i don’t think we were lied to about the renewal (at least not in the last year). they just didn’t say anything about the license at all aside from whoever gave out some info about the 10 year license bit a long time ago. even that bit was supposedly a misquote by the article according to (i think) doomsaw who was supposed to have said a 10 year plan for contents. could be retcon.

as far as i can gather from the discord stuff, the pc licence was expired/lost months ago (no idea exactly how long because no one is elaborating) and they managed to get it back 3 days before they were about to tell people they were shutting up shop for pc and that was around 6ish months ago. no one who knows anything about the terms of the deals (before or after) are saying anything.

we don’t know exactly why the license was pulled in october. all we know is they ran out of money. i don’t see how dvd was trying to get money out of disney as i don’t think they ever got any money from disney. the whole point of disney licensing out stuff is they get paid, not the other way around. it’s not impossible for him to ask for a lower fee though, but who knows. we know they raised money from investors for console. maybe how much of that money they see depended on how well the consoles did.

we also know they raised money many years ago when gaz was founded and they’ve been shutting studios ever since, so it’s not like they were making significant money.

whether or not the allegations against dvd are true or not doesn’t really have a bearing on how well or badly the pc version was doing. afterall he managed to negotiate the renewal (assuming it was him doing the negotiation). chances are the game was continuing on its downhill slope and the allegation was just the straw on the camel’s back that led to the license to being pulled. some of the devs did mention money ran out before we even heard of dvd.

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Utakata

It seems to be all done with the flare, dishonesty and douchery that’s become the new norm…with little regards on how this would impact those most affected. So it maybe the first, but unlikely the last we see of this type of sunsetting. /sigh

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Knox Harrington

If Marvel Heroes was an MMORPG, I’d say yes but it’s not so no.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

it was an mmoarpg so a sub genre/hybrid of mmorpg and arpg

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Knox Harrington

In other words, a complete fustercluck

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

idk how marvel/disney dropped the ball here. they were the ones to inform players of things, which gazilion refused to do despite the obvious drama going on. it was the board’s mismanagement of appointing this guy as CEO despite brevik disclosing the reasons he refused to work with him any longer and thus leaving and him as CEO’s blatant mismanagement from the minute he was appointed as CEO that led to the bottom dropping out of the company and game in mass exodus fashion.

the game was doing well enough before that point to fund dev of a new game by the company, but this guy completely shit the bed and was arrogant as fuck when negotiating the license renewal apparently thus losing it and failing to communicate to players that the license was lost several months ago (or even apparently lead devs) and would not be renewed.

that they forced it onto disney/marvel to announce the closure of the game is not disney’s fault. disney did the right thing there, even if disney was not aware of how deep the company’s issues were that it would be closed so soon and thus miscommunicated a year end closure (when the license ends)

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Denice J. Cook

My hatred of NCSoft knows no bounds for their handling of the CoX shutdown debacle (not to mention their long, storied history of killing off their MMOs– even the ones up for a year or less like Tabula Rasa and MXM).

However, I think Disney and Marvel both are permanently a no-go for me now, after how they bungled this, and I never even played this game.

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Gangrel

Tabula Rasa was up for 15months (minus a couple of days) from opening to closure.

But even Tabula Rasa got a better sunset than this…

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

blame the CEO. he was playing hardball with them in contract negotiations to renew the license and it fell through long before the closure. and then he didn’t communicate that to even lower level employees let alone customers. when the bank found out they were losing the contract for their only live game and revenue source they called in the loan.

it’s complete mismanagement of the company that has been this game’s downfall and it seems to go directly back to the “new” CEO which would be on the board for appointing him when brevik no longer was willing to work with him due to his behaviour relating to the allegations of sexual harrasment which teh board was apparently aware of and appointed him CEO anyway.

so the CEO and the board are at fault here.

i don’t blame marvel disney for not floating gaz til the end of the year, especially with the toxicity of the CEO on all fronts both publicly and business side.

hopefully he’s blacklisted from CEO or executive positions in teh future as well.

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Robert Mann

Yeah, but when they had the announcements for sunset out via Disney, and also had options to at least say something themselves about moving it up… not doing so is a dick move.

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Melissa McDonald

Big companies screw people over alla time, lads and lasses. Disney wields their power like the 800lb gorilla that they are.

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Castagere Shaikura

EA shutdown of Earth & Beyond. They just kept taking things out of the game so players would get frustrated and quit. At the time mmo’s were not the big thing they became after Wow. So EA had no interest in running it and when players posted about it EA basically told them to go play something else. EA bought Westwood for the C&C series and they ruined that. Earth & Beyond just came with the deal. And Westwood didn’t even tell the devs that worked so hard on the game that they were in talks with EA to sell the company. Once EA bought the company they kept pulling devs off of E&B without saying why. Most of them quit.

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starbuck1771

Yup they put their focus on Battlefield and of course the sims online. Many of us loyal E&B players were pissed off that EA shafted us like that. Sadly this not only happens in MMO’s but other games as well.

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Armsbend

Hell no. Not even close. That would be Daybreak and Everquest. Marvel Heroes was a relative unknown comparatively. Everquest was a brand every human gamer had at least heard of. Even kids maybe not born when it was released had at least heard of it. Squandered.

Dantos
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Dantos

I wish I knew the truth behind the rumors that Disney offered a buyout but the Gaz CEO turned them down either out of spite, or that it was to low an amount. We’ll probably never know if such a thing ever happened.

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Denice J. Cook

This sounds like any one of the 198734 rumors about City of Heroes’ supposed buyout attempts. And yet, here we sit. :P I wouldn’t put much stock in any of it.

If anything, they would have demanded of Gazillion the resignation and replacement of perv CEO Dave Dohrmann, IF the game was doing well and worth keeping around. Then there still would have been the issue of Gazillion’s funding getting pulled. Disney and Gazillion would have had to convince the funders paying Disney for the Marvel license to hang on while they replaced Dohrmann.

And who published this game?

That was the catalyst for this whole debacle, though: Dohrmann and the harassment allegations.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

he was playing hardball with disney on license renewal negotiations and was the board’s boy to the point they let their winning ceo that was growign the company go when he no longer wanted to work with him and appointed him CEO in his place.

even tho the company’s revenues and customer base shrunk severely during his time as CEO.

but the license was alreaday lost months ago. it’s just that gaz/dohrman didn’t tell the relevant people and forced disney to do the disclosure. when it’s not really something that would be up to disney to disclose in teh first place.

plannick
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plannick

you are just spamming nonsense about the license. the license was renewed. that it got pulled later in october is a separate issue. brevik left the company ages ago in 2015 i think. he said they kept that quiet for a long while.

deekay_plus
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deekay_plus

that’s what i’ve read from reliable sources but then there seems to be competing and contradictory narratives depending on which employee of the company is talking about it.

brevik left last year btw. i thougth it was more recently than that (late last year) but it was last year. and there was a pretty clear and rapid decline under dohrman of practice that drove away the customer base.

plannick
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plannick

i don’t know where you got those contradictory narratives from, chances are it’s people repeating stuff wrongly, speculating and making stuff up. what i’ve typed is basically what the likes of michaelmayhem, winterthur, etc, were saying in discord.

as for brevik. a quick google search will show you news saying he left in early 2016. however he himself said on discord that he actually left earlier than that but they kept quiet.

Deckard – Last Monday at 23:24 <- that's brevik
I actually left in late summer 2015, but it didn't get announced until January 2016. They were afraid of the reaction.

what is of more interest is what hasn't been said. such as when the license actually ran out (as opposed to being pulled in october) in relation to the bue announcement. because things didn't go quiet in april on the pc front… that was around when the license was actually renewed. they went quiet a lot earlier than that. (bue was announced in sept 2016 or earlier)

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Wolfyseyes

I’m hard-pressed to come up with any “better” examples. Even NCSoft, the beloved whipping boy of many MMO fans, did a cleaner cut than what MHO got.

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rafael12104

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Jeremy Barnes

Why does massively keep mentioning Disney? No one blames Disney/Marvel in this case. We know it was gazilliion who had problems.

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starbuck1771

I blame Disney. They have a long history of mismanaging any property they are in charge of. You can see this with the Star Wars franchise. Disney will only continue to support games and property’s that will make their investors money. The mouse wants your cheddar. So a F2P game like Marvel Heroes had very little chance to start with and we were lucky it was around as long as it was.

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bereman99

I don’t, because the failures here are on the Gazillion leadership.

I don’t blame Disney for not sticking around to keep a sinking ship temporarily afloat when they weren’t the ones that poked holes in the bottom.

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Armsbend

I think Disney took a Star Wars that was suffering and being cheapened through bad licensing decisions under Lucas’s direction and put it back on track. So I strongly disagree with your opinion.

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Melissa McDonald

I think anyone could have “saved” Star Wars, all that was needed was to get Lucas out of the way. #JustSayNoToMuppetsInStarWars

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Armsbend

I agree but if a new trilogy had been created under someone under than Disney it might not be the celebration it is today. People are really looking forward to this next movie me included. Had Disney not put their full weight behind SW I’m not sure that would be the case. They’ve done a really good job imho.

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McGuffn

The Disney star warses are okay. Not great so far. Compare that to most of the marvel movies which are actually better than your typical action adventure movies.

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Armsbend

The Fisney ones were miles better than any of the Jar Jar Binks Trilogy movies imo. I don’t remember any of the scenes from those movies except the funny ones that weren’t meant to be funny.

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Melissa McDonald

better movies, but nothing equals the awesomeness of Darth Maul and the 3 way lightsaber battle. The movie could have been 5 minutes long and featured only that scene and I would have gladly paid. Will never forget seeing TPM on opening night. The moment when Qui-Gon Jinn lays dying, Darth Maul is pacing like an angry tiger, Obi-Wan is bouncing up and down like a champion boxer as they prepare to clash just before that energy gate opened up. Not one person breathed in the whole theater. And then, the clash… like 12, 15 strikes in a row at full speed. F*cking cinema magic. Ray Park gets a lot of credit.

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starbuck1771

I know one thing Ridley says she is done after IX regardless of Disney and LA saying they are going to keep going. So where will they go with no Rey?

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Armsbend

That is seriously the least challenging speedbump I can imagine.

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wratts

Bree’s point is that if Gazillion was going to have their funding pulled by the banks, it would have been nothing for Disney to fund a skeleton crew to keep the servers up and send out a communication to the players. Seems like it would have had some value as brand protection if nothing else, but obviously MH didn’t have the popular media reach for it to have much impact

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Mark Mealman

I feel like that’s a horrible idea. Every dollar Disney would’ve thrown into that outside mismanaged company would’ve just been funneled into upper management/investor payback and would’ve been a dollar taken away from Disney employees and products.

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Robert Mann

They could have just noted they were sending ‘their own personnel’ to ensure a smooth shutdown. Wouldn’t have been a first. Fixes all the funding going elsewhere issues.

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Wolfyseyes

Call it lack of deeper knowledge. It was Disney that announced the closure, so it’s they who get the ire. Until more details emerge, I can appreciate why Disney is the target.

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Taemys

Yeah, I’m not sure how that could have gone any worse. A sad end to my favorite casual MMO.

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BalsBigBrother

To me it hardly matter much how well a or not a game is sunset. Either way the game is still gone and there is nothing that is going to change that outcome. Second guessing, getting angry or whatever over things you have no power to change more so after the fact seems to be a bit pointless to me personally.

Yes it could have been done better but it wasn’t. /shrugs I am just going to remember the fun and move on to other stuff.

Other stuff like the free game the humble store is giving away (The Bureau: X Com Declassified), I have no idea if its any good but its a free game so I am willing to give it a go for a few hours.

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starbuck1771

it is good. there is one day four hours for people to get it for free instead of for $20. It is a steam code for the game. https://www.humblebundle.com/store/the-bureau-xcom-declassified

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Tanek

Just be sure to USE the code soon. HB does not show this warning as prominently as it used to, but the code you get will expire in a few weeks.

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starbuck1771

Correct from the download page:
The redemption deadline is December 16th, 2017 at 10:00 AM Pacific. You have 15 days left!

Immediately after 10AM Pacific on December 16th, the Steam key will magically vanish as if it were just a figment of your imagination, leaving this cryptic message behind in its wake.

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BalsBigBrother

The only other thing I would add with regards to the game itself is you apparently need to turn off the physx cloth setting (maybe even the particle one too depending on your g card) or the game will crash.

wpDiscuz