Accused Call of Duty swatter charged with involuntary manslaughter

Just before the new year, the gaming community was mortified to learn that an innocent Kansas man had been shot by police following a fake crime report targeting the victim’s residence over a video game – i.e., a swatting incident that actually came to its intended deadly end. Now, the caller, 25-year-old Tyler Barriss, has been charged with involuntary manslaughter, as well as with giving false alarm and interfering with a police officer.

According to original reports, Barriss was intending to target a Call of Duty player over a bet. His doxxing attempt went awry when he was given the wrong address for his victim, and so when he phoned police with his long and drawn out story about a murder/hostage/arson in progress, he sent them to the house of a completely unrelated father of two, Andrew Finch, who was subsequently shot and killed by police after opening his door.

It is not clear yet whether the officer who killed Finch will be charged; he is currently on paid administrative leave. Finch’s family has disputed law enforcement’s recounting of the events and blames the officer. The district attorney says he’s waiting on the completed autopsy report before deciding whether to hold police accountable as well.

Barriss reportedly has a documented history of swatting, including a case in Canada.

Source: CBS, Rolling Stone, Kotaku. With thanks to winterskorn and Armsbend.
SHARE THIS ARTICLE
Code of Conduct | Edit Your Profile | Commenting FAQ | Badge Reclamation | Badge Key

LEAVE A COMMENT

157 Comments on "Accused Call of Duty swatter charged with involuntary manslaughter"

Subscribe to:
Sort by:   newest | oldest | most liked
Reader
Armsman

He got off light with that type of charge. It could (and IMO) should have been second degree murder (IMO). Saw the bodycam video of the police officer involved, and yeah, it was lees then 2 seconds from ther officer yelling commands from across the street (with no bullhorn or PA) to him shooting the person dead. A too quick response IMO – and yeah sorry, it SHOULD be their job to ascertain the situation BEFORE so quickly resorting to such deadly force.

They CHOOSE a profession to be a police officer. If they don’t want any part of the ‘danger’ aspect, they should have picked a different profession.

Weilan
Reader
Weilan

I agree, they act way too violently on their part too.

PurpleCopper
Reader
PurpleCopper

Fuck man, at least charge the cop as well.

Damn cop shoots a guy from 50 meters with his hands in the air while you shine a light in his face.

Next time there are cops at your door, don’t even fucking open the door if you’re innocent, just lie on the floor with your hands on your head and refuse to come out.

All that cop needs to do in court is say “I feared for my life”, and he’s instantly exonerated.

Reader
David ward

Since none of use know what exactly happened at the door we’re poorly informed to judge, although that doesn’t stop any of us. We can also all sit here at our computers and tell with utmost authority that we KNOW what should have been done, but we don’t. Few, if any, here are trained to actually handle this type of situation, although I’m certain some while claim they are (woot internet, where we all can claim what we want.)

All I know, or care, is that this idiot, Tyler Barriss, pays for his part in ending an innocent person’s life.

Reader
Bruno Brito

> Since none of use know what exactly happened at the door we’re poorly informed to judge, although that doesn’t stop any of us. We can also all sit here at our computers and tell with utmost authority that we KNOW what should have been done, but we don’t. Few, if any, here are trained to actually handle this type of situation, although I’m certain some while claim they are (woot internet, where we all can claim what we want.)

No.

A lot of people know what’s going on here, and we can also deduct what’s going on. It wasn’t a special force that attended the call, it was normal officers. And then a father of two got shot dead. WHAT do you think happened? He was unnarmed, he was NOT a menace.

There’s nothing more irritating than someone saying people shouldn’t judge because “they weren’t there”, when we have evidence and testimony of what happened. That’s really “FoxNews-y”.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

Absa-fuckin-lutely

Reader
Nathan Aldana

“involuntary” . sure.

Reader
van_glorious

Swatting is crazy enough as is, but phoning the police and telling him that he’s calling because a person had ALREADY killed someone just pisses me off beyond anything.

Imagine this: The cops are told to head to a house, where a murder had already been commited, and everyone expects the cops to be calm and talk to the “offenders” as if their music was too loud!? The father had according to the call already murdered his wife!

There’s not a lot of things that pisses me off. This case is so sickening to me, because not only did someone completely unrelated to the argument get killed, Tyler is reacting to it as if he has NO FAULT at all.

Reader
Bruno Brito

You investigate things first. The guy complied and got shot. That’s not how you should do things in the force.

Reader
van_glorious

I agree. Swatting shouldn’t even be a thing, but an emergency call is still an emergency call. I just think there needs to be a harsher punishment for those who think it is okay to prank someone by sending the police to your house in case of false allegations, especially when the caller says that the other party had murdered someone and is capable of blowing the entire house up as was this case.

The police officer should not have done what he did. From my training there is a saying and a truth and should be reinforced more than anything else, and that saying is the most important of all the sayings: “Don’t point your weapon at someone, unless you’re willing to shoot.”

Reader
Jerry Maples

Clearly, the office was ready to shoot. That’s part of the problem.

Reader
Sir ilho

Yes, it is part of the problem.

Still doesn’t mean that police officers should investigate when approaching a house where a person has already committed one homiced and is suspected of committing another.

I really don’t get how this kid gets off with this ‘involutary’ bullshit, but i imagine it has something to do with not addressing the “the office was ready to shoot” subject..

Reader
Bruno Brito

> Still doesn’t mean that police officers should investigate when approaching a house where a person has already committed one homiced and is suspected of committing another.

They should, period. Even if it’s a incomplete investigation. You don’t go in a “life lost” situation wanting to kill someone else.

Reader
Seaton

Tens of thousands of dollars go into training these guys. They are the buffer between dumbasses and the general public. This leo failed, he will get additional paid leave and then quietly dismissed. Hopefully he does not end up as your trigger-happy neighbor.

Grave Knight
Reader
Grave Knight

Give the asshole 25 year prison sentence.

Not sure about the officer since that incident isn’t fully explained.

Reader
Roger Melly

Wouldn’t happen in the UK our police are not armed for the most part and the ones that are have rigorous training in the use of firearms .

Having said that I do sympathise with the police in the USA because they faced with criminals that are far more likely to be in possession of firearms where every arrest or confrontation with public has the potential to be fatal . However they should face dismissal from their jobs at the very least if not charges .

Glad to see this idiot at the very least is facing a prison sentence for his stupidity .

Reader
John Kiser

The problem is is police in the US are never really prosecuted and when they are the public almost always gives them a pass. There are reasons that dispatchers exist in the US and why you should always call 911 if you have an actual emergency. The fact this was called into the police station directly and wasn’t sent over to a dispatcher immediately was the start of how questionable the police acted in this instance. They had rifles trained on the guy who was “still” on the phone and yet the station wasn’t reporting this stuff to them?

Also them playing the tape which mentions gasoline is a bit asinine as they should actually inform the general public that the whole gasoline thing was a solid minute after he had already been shot. There was a lot of missteps done by the entire police department in this instance as a whole not just the one cop that fired (though he really shouldn’t be doing that kind of work if he has that itchy a trigger finger).

I think the biggest thing is that we really need to change how police handle shit. We need to go back to the days of de-escalating situations instead of having them act like some kind of paramilitary force without the actual training or rules of engagement.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

NEVER was a truer word said about it.

Reader
roo woods

I don’t know how it works in the USA but where I live in situations like this the police don’t investigate their own . If there was any wrongdoing in this case the police officer should be prosecuted but we should not assume there was wrongdoing until it can be proven .

What surprises me most is a SWAT team was dispatched because of an anonymous phone call with proper scrutiny . Does that mean any idiot can get a SWAT team sent to any house in the USA ?

There obviously needs to be legislation to improve how your police force go about their business and better training to make officers less gung ho . But I imagine the vast majority of officers in your country are trying to protect and serve to the best of their ability and no matter how much you legislate there will always be some bad apples .

You have to be also very careful that such legislation does not hamstring the police to the point moral becomes so low that they no longer feel they can do their jobs effectively . That would probably mean a lot of officers leaving the force, a drop in recruitment and a crisis in police numbers and a rise in crime . Which in turn would lead to private police forces being or the army being put on the streets to maintain control which would even be worse than it is now .

In short be careful what you wish for .

ihatevnecks
Reader
ihatevnecks

Read the comments. SWAT wasn’t dispatched. He was shot by regular patrol officers.

Reader
roo woods

“Several Swat officers arrived and surrounded the home, braced for a hostage situation. When a man came to the door police told him to put his hands up and move slowly.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/29/wichita-man-killed-by-police-after-false-hostage-report-was-murdered-mother-swatting

“Earlier this week, 28-year-old Andrew Finch, a family man from Kansas, opened his door to a fully-armed SWAT team ready to defuse a hostage situation that was called in from 1,300 miles away. Shot down before he could even leave his porch, it became clear that Finch was the victim of a sick and tragic prank.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/why-would-someone-call-a-swat-team-on-a-stranger-w515035

Well who should I believe some gamers in a forum who lets face it don’t always gets their facts straight or the press ?

Perhaps you can post a link from a credible news source which says they were not a SWAT team ? I can’t find one but I don’t discount that the reports I have read were sloppy journalism either

ihatevnecks
Reader
ihatevnecks

Which is why I said to read the comments, because I *did* post a link from a credible news source. Three times. A news source local to the area this happened in, which had direct comments from the local PD.

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article193294019.html

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192666859.html

You just spent an awful lot of effort responding back instead of.. you know… scrolling down a short bit and reading the comments :)

Reader
roo woods

I wouldn’t call some newspaper/site situated in Kansas as an established credible source .

ihatevnecks
Reader
ihatevnecks

A newspaper situated in Kansas, where the incident happened, who were the ones to actually interview the police chief of the PD in the incident?

Yeah, sorry, now you’re just being a tool.

Reader
Bruno Brito

> I wouldn’t call some newspaper/site situated in Kansas as an established credible source .

Now you’re being daft on purpose.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

Involuntary? Wtf?

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
mysecretid

A lot of the time, the charges reflect what the prosecution thinks they have the best chance of proving — what they can actually make stick.

I imagine that going for “involuntary manslaughter” gets around the inevitable defense that Barriss didn’t consciously intend for anyone to die (even though what he actually intended is unknown).

But hey, I am not a lawyer.

Cheers,

Reader
Fisty

Law enforcement shares some of the blame here. The whole idea that a crank call can get SWAT called is ridiculous.

Cyclone Jack
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Cyclone Jack

The whole idea that people make the fake call in the first place is what is ridiculous.

Reader
Fisty

That’s just one of the ideas in the whole thing that is ridiculous. It’s not the only.

Reader
Utakata

Regardless, the SWAT should of showed up in preparation to de-escalate the situation. They did everything but and somebody died in cold blood as a result. Thusly, they should be held in account too.

Xijit
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Xijit

Which is why this guy is going to get crucified and thrown into a volcano even though SWATTING has been happening for the last 20-ish years.

Reader
Utakata

You could suggest sliding him down a 50 meter razor and drowned in a bucket of iodine before. Or tl,dr: hung, drawn and quartered…

…however, I don’t advocate for such cruel forms of punishment porn. Let’s just bring this guy to justice. Thankx, :)

Xijit
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Xijit

Oh, this guy totally deserves to get his ass hauled into jail … But the powers that be are going to be making a spectical of him just to distract from the fact that it was a trigger happy cop who murdered an innocent man.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Alex Js.

This is good and he definitely deserves that, but I hope police officer who actually did the shooting would also get some jail sentence… Police should NEVER, EVER put their lives above innocent people’s lives and shoot anyone unless they have 100% visual confirmation of someone possessing a deadly weapon. All of these “I thought his/her hand moved somewhere to potentially reach a potential weapon and potentially assault me with it” BS excuses should NEVER be treated seriously.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Peregrine Falcon

While the childish sociopath who made the call should definitely get prison time, the real problem are the cops. Calls like these would be a mere nuisance if cops now days weren’t such frightened trigger-happy idiots who repeatedly get away with what would land a civilian in prison with a murder sentence.

Juries need to start penalizing these cops big time or it’s only going to get worse.

ihatevnecks
Reader
ihatevnecks

Just to point this out since a number of folks have already made this mistake: SWAT were not on scene for this. The guy was shot by normal patrol officers.

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article193294019.html

Reader
John Kiser

Yes, however they were in cover with rifles. It is likely that they don’t properly have “swat” and just have some gear. That said the whole situation was handled poorly by the department. First and foremost it should of been pushed over to a dispatcher who would of gotten out the right people and looked into it more. The whole fact that it was the right address, but the wrong described house (no one is going to forget if their house is single or two story sorry to say). The fact that the cops seemed to ignore that the suspect was still on the phone with them at the time of the shooting and the person at the front door having nothing in his hands and clearly not on the phone.

The whole idea that the officer fired on someone at the door no matter what he was doing given it is very common that hostage takers will act in a certain way. Why in the name of hell would he poke his own head out and suddenly surrender if he had hostages for instance. The police did no investigation didn’t attempt anything and didn’t even look into where the call was originating from at all.

Reader
Loyal Patron
Armsbend

This is just another case of the United States needing to drastically expand our state mental hospitals again (the Reagan years shut them down to reduce government costs). The gun/crazy lobby likes to talk a lot about how guns don’t kill people – people kill people – times like these need to see the reintroduction of padded rooms, large orderlies and shock therapy. Don’t make it a place you prefer over jail but one that could very well be worse – not as a place of torture but another layer of deterrence.

Otherwise these psychopaths will keep doing what they are doing – unseen in the general populace until they strike and ruin a series of lives. Better to see a problem and subsequently throw them in a facility until they are gone from society forever or can be fixed. Too many people who shouldn’t have any rights roaming freely.

Reader
angrakhan

I’m sorry but how exactly does this situation involve the “gun/crazy lobby”? I have to assume you’re referring to the NRA? You’re seriously trying to draw some parallel between gun control and a guy that SWATTED someone (which is a phone call). Last I checked the NRA have nothing to do with state mental hospitals. What change do you want exactly regarding guns in this situation? Do you want the police banned from carrying pistols? That’s who did the shooting and what they did the shooting with. I don’t think that’s going to work out so well. Rather did you want to ban people from calling 911 and making false reports? That’s already illegal. Maybe you are calling for the perpetrator of the call to have been preemptively locked up in a state-run mental institution in some Orwellian Minority Report style mind reading exercise? I don’t know but whatever it is I think you’re way off base.

Reader
Loyal Patron
Armsbend

You understood me.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

I think you may have said something pretty unsavoury there, maybe without the intention of being hurtful. I just spent xmas, 3 weeks, in a mental institution because of my bipolar. There are a lot of other people out there who need, sometimes. somewhere safe to go to, to be cared for. And 99% of them are not harmful people. They are just having a bad break. There are special facilities for mentally ill offenders as well, in extreme (rare) cases there will even be a padded room.

As for the case at hand… “involuntary” manslaughter? Surely his actions were entirely of his own volition and his charge should be either murder in the first, or at the very, very least, manslaughter.

Reader
Loyal Patron
Armsbend

I wasn’t trying to be unsavory – I just think a solution needs to be address by my country’s out of control violence and lack of social norms. I don’t have all the answers obviously and am not trying to stigmatize anyone with my insensitivity.

For the case, if you don’t pull the trigger or specifically hire someone to pull to the trigger I don’t know if you can call it anything else as the law is written today.

Reader
John Kiser

Mental health needs a complete revamp over what it is and definitely not what it used to be. There are already too many corrupt doctors out there now who will even attempt to keep people in care for things that they or family put them in for. I’ve been in that system and just no we don’t need it getting worse. Some of these people genuinely need help. The problem isn’t so much mental health or social norms (who gets to decide those, we’d be stuck in 1950’s mentality if we went that route).

The problem stems from this whole idea that because you are online you are safe and can harass or treat people like shit frequently. It has to do with people having a capacity for telling right from wrong etc. A facility won’t help with that. And lets not create situations where you know people that go to a hospital for help get treated badly to keep them in mental health facilities. You do know there was a time that pretty much every mental health facility in this country was horribly corrupt.

I had a doctor try and keep me in one that I was in after a suicide attempt by stating that I was paranoid that people were out to get me when I stated that I had carried a knife on me from protection from my father whom was abusive (held me down by my neck and said he was going to kill me). He also subjected a girl to being put in there for simply “disobeying” her mother and this been in the last 16 years or so

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

I’m sorry about the “treatment” you received. I think part of the problem is that the staff (whom I feel sorry for) have to treat EVERYONE. So they get the real crazy people who are (unfortunately) very dangerous and they possibly overreact. When I was inside (the asylum) I witnessed a lot of good, but also situations where I felt very threatened and was even myself considering what way I was going to defend myself if one guy who was muttering about me, went for me. I don’t know why we are talking about mental health though. Who in this situation was judged to be mentally ill? You can be a real sick bastard and not be mentally ill – just evil.

Reader
John Kiser

Yeah which is why I’m, not sure why that was brought up in the first place. No one in the situation was mentally ill. They might be morons with not thought to right or wrong but that doesn’t make them mentally ill.

My overall point was that we shouldn’t go about making hospitals worse again. The stuff I went through was one place that was in a hospital not even an asylum. This was for people that were suicidal, drug users to try and deal with this or that, some people that needed mental help care and couldn’t take care of themselves etc.

The main doctor was good (though the nurse that drew blood from me for blood work had to take it twice because mine coagulated before they got it down to test idfk…) The problem is at times fill in doctors when the main doctor is away was a corrupt piece of shit. The rest of the staff were fine so it wasn’t a situation where they needed to treat everyone and failed at it. It was a situation where the guy filling in for a day or two was scummy as shit and was going to try and force people to be in there longer than they needed to be.

He was literally supposed to just sign some papers and let me leave (this was when i was still in high school around 16 – 17 years ago… so the whole thing ended up with a situation where I needed the okay from them to complete schooling at home etc) and tried to attach non existent mental health issues to me.

The thing that irked me was Armsbend saying we should make mental health facilities uninviting and shit like that. Bringing back shock therapy and all that. I think it is absurd to move us back into the times where mental health facilities were a joke and didn’t actually try and treat anything in anything other than a barbaric manner.

We need to be training police departments to look out for this kind of stuff, to de-escalate situation instead of escalate the hell out of them asap. We need to stop treating body movements as a potential threat. And last but not least teach them proper gun safety and trigger discipline this likely wouldn’t of happened had the officer been disciplined and not had his finger on the trigger to fire the entire time and reacted harshly right away.

I also think that cops need to be held accountable for what they do by the police, the DA/Prosecutors, and by the public at large. They far to often get a free pass to do whatever they want and get away with it because no one does shit about it.

Reader
Bryan Turner

I hope that kid gets the max, and then gets put in general population where he eventually gets a video leaked to a Prison Sex website called Look Who’s Swatting Now Biotch.

Reader
Loyal Patron
Armsbend

He isn’t very young at all. He is the type of sociopath who will probably come out of prison more deranged.

This is the reason we should expand state mental hospitals again.

Reader
Loyal Patron
Kickstarter Donor
Patreon Donor
kgptzac

I think you are just making unsolicited diagnosis and unwanted generalization about people who is committed to, and work in the field of mental hospitals.

Reader
John Kiser

No we don’t need to expand state mental hospitals. We need good mental health facilities. You are an idiot that also said they need to bring back shock therapy. Being a sociopath is not a mental disorder and isn’t something treatable. We do not need to go back to a time when we just threw shock therapy at shit we didn’t understand.

We also have a horrid prison system which is where a sociopath belongs in the first place. We’ll never rehabilitate prisoners in the US largely because we treat them as a means to a cheap labor source in private prisons. A large part of the rest of the western world actually focuses on rehabilitation and you know actually trying to do something about why crime occurs in the first place.

Our recidivism rate is exponentially higher in the US because we try and keep the prisons stocked largely. We do all we can to impede an ex-con from getting work unless they largely start their own business or work for a friend or low wage jobs that aren’t enough to get by (this tends to lead to recidivism due to them wanting to commit crime to have more)

We should be treating mental health more, but earlier on in life not after the fact. Some people are not mentally ill, but don’t know right from wrong.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

Sociopathy, as you call it, is not a mental illness. It is classified as a Personality Disorder – Antisocial Personality Disorder” possibly in this case and (most) would claim it is untreatable and all you can do is “manage” offenders. The proper place for someone like this who creates mayhem in life hi to be in prison. You can’t cure or treat them. Again…. I think you might find it very interesting to do some reading up on mental disorders. If it interests you at all it is worth shelling out money to but the “Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders” or DSM for short.

Reader
Denice J. Cook

I hope the kid gets major jail time. Not only does he deserve it, but it will stand as an example to future would-be swatters.

Reader
Alexander Dragonfang

((Deleted by mod. Please review the commenting code.))

Reader
rafael12104

Midwest Africa? Kudos if you were trying to sound like Trump. Job well done.

BTW, the focus is on the entire incident. Not just the call or the cops for that matter. Look at the discussion and you will see that. And that is exactly what is needed. There was more than one mistake here and it is all being examined.

Say what you will, but I for one, am glad I live in a country where this is all out and in the open. Welcome to our dirty laundry. Shall we take a look at yours too?

Reader
John Kiser

A lot of us are talking about it. Sadly we can’t really do shit about it because the police far to often protect their own and then you have people that make cops infallible in their heads and we end up with a situation where even if we get a cop to a jury based trial they are often found not guilty even with video evidence of their wrongdoing. It is crazy, but it is really all we can do.

Reader
Bruno Brito

I am focused on the police, and yet it’s not just an American issue. Don’t be dishonest here.

Reader
Mick the Barbarian

In what other country does this occur?

Reader
Bruno Brito

Mine. Brazil is fucking loaded with dirty cops. I had friends getting slapped in the face, drugs planted, hell, one acquaintance of mine was doing 6 months and shared a room with a guy that was arrested under drug dealing charges. He got hit with a machete in a fight on his forearm, and the officer escorting him DEMANDED the nurse to take care of him WITHOUT anestesia. It was fucking disturbing.

The Police was the worst idea ever made. You give a idiot a tool made with the sole purpose of destruction of lives, and a badge that gives him the power to do that in the name of the estate. What do you think is going to happen?

Reader
Mick the Barbarian

Perhaps I should have qualified that by asking “What other first world country”. No offence intended, but you don’t see this happening in European countries, Canada, Australia, Japan. I find your story disturbing to say the least, but not unexpected.

I get you point though. Perhaps I’m lucky in that police follow the rule of law. There are very few dirty cops.

Reader
Bruno Brito

I’m not saying the US isn’t dangerous. It is. Culturally, the police is more fucked up in 3rd world countries than in 1st world ones. And the US has all the makings of a 3rd world country.

Thing is, like i said, dirty cops do exist. Even if they’re very few. The issues you find in the US aren’t just on the US. For instance, Japan has the same healthcare issue that US has.

Reader
draugris

I would bet a good amount of money that the officer who shot an unarmed and innocent citizen is still in service….

Reader
Alexander Dragonfang

I don’t see many countries with news which titles go as: “game fake reports another gamer over a videogame and gets him killed by a special police force”.

Just think about what actually happend. If your special force police is that trigger happy, hell, i really get scared of ever visiting the US.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

And indeed I AM scared of visiting the US. I went once, but never again. Not with Trump and all that right-wing stuff. I fear this will get me a deletion (but I do think IS relevant to gaming in the context of how games affect life) but I would not want to be black in America right now (or possibly ever) as you might as well run around with a beacon and a target on your back. Bree will probably have to delete that but I am pretty sure she would agree.

Reader
Rodney Perry

Dude!!! 100% love 🙏

Reader
A Dad Supreme

If your special force police is that trigger happy

They weren’t “special police forces”, lol.

They were regular street cops with probably the bare minimum of training in emergency procedures that was required by a state or federal standard, and then given more powerful emergency equipment to look the part.

Almost every police force in the US has this kind of thing because it’s too expensive to maintain a full-time “special police force”.

Reader
Jeremy Barnes

They were SWAT who certainly has training for that type of incident.

Siphaed
Reader
Siphaed

If you think Wichita, Kansas has an actual “SWAT” police force,…well, you’re kinda being generous. Normally only large city have SWAT forces. They were originally set up for the riot control. In fact, it was LA that they originated. After the riots, they were used on the war on drugs and street gangs in the 80’s and 90’s, to then later be used in the 00’s as avant garde against suspected terrorist cells.

Special Weapons And Tactics.

A normal SWAT team had things like door rams, motion sensors, thermal detectors, and the like in order to assess a situation before advancing. They’re trained specifically for hostage situations within metropolitan areas, at the risk of more hostages being taken or a suspect fleeing into a denser populated area to escape. Also to keep collateral to a minimum due to surrounding population.

Small towns do not have hostage negotiators on standby.
Small towns do not have properly trained SWAT teams.
Small towns rarely deal in situations like the aforementioned to know how best to handle it.
Small town cops approach situations that arise as “shoot first, talk later” in a gung ho attempt to be the 6o’clock news hero of the week.
Things such as tasers, mace, batons, brute strength, and other non-leathal approaches are becoming vastly outdated to simple pull of a trigger.

Some good reading on the subject would be:

….Warrior Cops: The Ominous Growth of Paramilitarism in American Police Departments

….Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America

Reader
Brother Maynard

It seems that the police are increasingly militarised (with very little or perhaps no reason for it), while often not equipped mentally or professionally to handle it.

Last week tonight had an episode mentioning this problem (starting around 6:30) – there’s also a brief mention of a similarly titled book ‘Rise of the warrior cop’. It’s definitely not a healthy or desirable trend…

ihatevnecks
Reader
ihatevnecks

No, it was not SWAT. This has already been covered by numerous articles; they considered it too early in the “hostage situation” to deploy SWAT, so only regular patrol officers responded.

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article193294019.html

Reader
John Kiser

Which begs the question of why were they armed with rifles in cover and not actually scoping out anything? There were so many huge missteps in the situation.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

Absofekinlutely!

Reader
Bruno Brito

People get shot all the time over small things. This is reported in a videogame site because it’s a videogame-related news.

Don’t go for a second, believing that this is solely in the US. Videogames might not be the focal point, but you CAN get shot anywhere.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Tandor

Agreed, but it’s just that the odds of that happening are so very much greater in the US. Not just because of the different approach by the police, or the different attitude to guns generally, but also because (as recently evidenced by a US poster on ESO’s forums) there is a massive cultural difference between the players on US servers and the players on e.g. the European servers.

Reader
Bruno Brito

Come to Brazil. You’ll see the same.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

Well not in Western European countries – we don’t tend to shoot each other. We have the occasional incident, but these are now normally ISIS type attacks. America is awash with guns and gung-ho police. It is a recipe for just this type of risible and sad situation to happen. Not many people come out of this looking too smart. Nearly the while population thinks “people kill people” and don’t realise that the guns weren’t there, the guy would be in handcuffs, not dead with bullets in him. If the citizens are armed then the whole police force needs bigger guns and tends to shoot early rather than die doing their daily job. It is an insanity. If this situation had happened in Western Europe nobody would have been killed and the perpetrator would have been punished, but not ended up a killer. It’s a shame that most Americans cannot see what is before their eyes. And I say this as someone that loves Americans – I have had many friends from the US.

Reader
Bruno Brito

I’m highly sure i’ve seen quite a lot of violence coming from European countries, like Neo-nazis and Hooligans.

Can’t speak for weaponry, because i don’t know the euro-weapon policy. But violence is NOT something that you find only on the left side of the world.

Reader
John Kiser

The thing is gun violence is low because guns are largely not allowed outside of hunting and need specific licenses or something. Yes there is violence that still happens, but the rate is lower. We have a violent society here that are largely armed and police that are jumpy trigger happy paramilitary like force anymore. That right there is a recipe for literal disaster.

Reader
shear

Well, I was hoping for manslaughter, I’m glad to see that at least some justice was delivered, still, that family is going to be torn apart forever.

Reader
Utakata

Oddly, I predicted it would end up in such a charge.

Reader
shear

Couldn’t have gotten more than that, he never intended for anyone to get hurt, and he didn’t do it himself either.

No Mens Rea = Manslaughter.

Reader
TotalCowage .

Except, he did. The whole purpose of sending the police around is at the very least to terrify the recipient, who can’t know that they aren’t going to harm them.

Remember the infant who had a flash-bang grenade thrown into their crib? Unless you have some form of diminished mental capability, it’s impossible to not know what potential results might occur in an armed raid with US police.

In this guys case, he’s already served time for doing this before, and is under investigation for multiple other identical offenses. He knows full well what he’s doing, but he’s apparently a genuine sociopath and is trying to find ways to avoid being held responsible, not that he didn’t know what he was doing was putting someone else at risk of harm.

The fact the law can’t specifically charge him for “misfortune by Cop” is an indication of just how behind the times the legislation is, not that the crime itself isn’t clear cut. During the same time period, I had someone from the Shroud of the Avatar community spend the holidays endlessly obsessing about me, and being encouraged to joke about SWATing too on Reddit . When the news from Wichita hit, they went back and pulled the addresses being posted, but there’s been more than a year of this harassment, and I’m still struggling to get it addressed due to the difficulty of defining crime, international boundaries, identity online etc… It’s almost impossible to get resource starved police forces, who may be pre-internet generation themselves, to decide too prosecute, or even understand what online crime actually means.

I’m getting closer, but only because I found a genuine lawyer prepared to help push it now.

This guy got caught because people knew who he was, and it had got someone innocent killed. Had it not been so newsworthy, it’s doubtful you’d have got anyone to really listen before then. But you can bet all those wider investigations are priorities now.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

I hope you get some resolution to your problem.

Reader
shear

The point is that he didn’t send them there to shoot him. You can’t prove that he did because the only thing that you can do is ask him and he is going to say “of course not” and the jury is going to be like ” well he couldn’t have possibly known or expected this outcome” that’s why he gets manslaughter.

By the way, I am not saying this is a satisfying result, far from it, I would have much-preferred murder but he wasn’t going to get that.

Reader
Armsman

If you listen to the 911 call he made, he mentions that he killed, has a gun, and is considering killing again.
^^^
If you think he didn’t have any clue as to what the Police would be thinking as they got on scene, you must be delusional. It isn’t first degree murder level – but second degree or full manslaughter (not just ‘involuntary manslaughter’ could have (and IMO should have) been what this piece of shit was charged with.

Reader
Utakata

To my understanding, if they prove the individual who swatted knowingly that the person was going to get killed and that was his expressed wishes then the charges should be higher. Because that would be outright murder after all. However, I have doubts that this was the case. And apparently so does the prosecution. Hence, manslaughter. One of the highest charges you can lay on a person for gross incompetence if it results in deaths.

Reader
John Kiser

It could very well be murder, but it is harder to prove that. In this case manslaughter makes sure that he will likely serve time for sure. They could go higher realistically, but as you said there is doubt there and you can’t really prove ones motive in the situation here directly. The slightly lesser charge makes sense, though I hope they throw the book at him for his other offenses. Let’s keep in mind this guy is a repeat offender and has done time before and is on the hook for some other shit he’s done too, he’ll likely get locked up for a much longer time than just the manslaughter charge.

Reader
Utakata

Yep. Reasonable doubt will likely keep the charges at manslaughter, unless they can prove otherwise. However, being a repeat offender will likely cause him to serve a longer time to think about his actions in this matter.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

It should, at the very LEAST have been manslaughter. I wonder what the charge would read if he had got to the intended victim and not a stranger – but the intent was still there, so murder by proxy of some sort would be my thinking.

Reader
Sally Bowls

FYI: also Calgary swat in addition to the 20 bomb threats
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article194272244.html

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Patreon Donor
zoward

Is there something weird in human nature that makes people think that just becuase they’re not at the scenen of the crime, they can’t have had anything to do with it? This reminds me of that guy who did time because he was using a laser to blind pilots of aircraft flying overhead. He looked shocked when sentenced him to years in prison. Seriously, how disconnected can you be? The swatter says he didn’t do anything seriously wrong. And I think he actually believes it. He was confident enough about it to trumpet it to the world on Twitter. He is going to be held up as an example of what can happen to you for the next generation of would-be swatters. And I’m totally at peace with that.

Reader
A Dad Supreme

Is there something weird in human nature that makes people think that just becuase they’re not at the scenen of the crime, they can’t have had anything to do with it?

Might be.

A lot of people aren’t aware that if they goad, encourage, berate or cheer someone to do harm or mischief to someone else and injury or something more serious happens, they can be charged too.

It’s like they never saw the movie “The Accused” with Jodie Foster.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
mistressbrazen

Actually the view that “I wasn’t there so I can’t have done anything wrong” is not uncommon among defendants who participate in planning crimes with other people. They seem perfectly capable of distancing themselves if they weren’t there or didn’t actually hold the gun OR another common statement I hear is: “I was just trying to have some fun.” This is the nature of a certain kind of risk taker. Unfortunately, ignoring grave risks can often result in the death of someone.

Reader
Bruno Brito

It’s pretty much sociopathy and disconnection. While i love our internet age, interacting with anonymous people and/or not having real enough interactions pretty much disconnects you towards real life struggles, empathy and consequences.

Reader
Rolan Storm

It is not our internet age to blame (though it certainly does not help either). Sociopaths by definition trying distance themselves from any consequences. Like zoward I find them weird and much more stronger words too. They honestly genuinely do not give a crap about harming someone and they always do, although indirectly like that swatter f**k.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

The internet is a perfect killing ground for them though – it really puts people at risk of the psychopath. At least in RL you have all your other senses (especially empathy sensation) to help you select who you spend time with.

Reader
Bruno Brito

Not blaming the age itself. but it’s an age where we don’t feel much empathy, or it’s mostly used as a disguise to an agenda.

It doesn’t help, really.

Reader
Rolan Storm

Concur. Especially about desguise part.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

It might interest you to know that the statistics of psychopaths per population (well Antisocial Behavioural Personality Disorder) vary quite markedly from country to country. The USA has a rate of around 3-4%, wheres for most European countries it is around the 1% mark (I think I remember from when I was researching it that emerging countries had either levels too). Now I say this not as some kind of judgement, but there must be some way that the USA has socially or practically progressed that European nations have differed in. Or is it in the DNA? Who knows? Or is it something as simple as guns, that changes so so much in a society, such as lack of fathers due to them being shot etc. But there isn’t enough research into this, and there needs to be. My suspicion is that empathy varies for a number of reasons but nurture does play a big role too. I am personally convinced (from seeing the country research) that DNA has at least an equal part to play. Without meaning to be disrespectful to the victims or their families, I find the whole subject fascinating and I wish we would embark in firstly national research into it and then turn that into an international research project to explain the differences.

Oh and drugs… the million dollar question. The US definitely has a bigger epidemic in the drugs that cause the most damage: Coke, Heroine, Meth and Crack. My answer on this is to legalise all drugs, take the criminal involvement out of it. Monitor it and treat it as a health problem. A junkie that needs a hit but can buy it at the local store like he buys tobacco and doesn’t have a gun is less likely to spend his life compulsively stealing, robbing and killing people – he can continue his job or even buy out of his benefits. When people discover the misery of addiction and there is enough awareness then the rates of drug use will start to fall, as they have in Portugal where they went ahead and did this. The criminalisation of drugs has caused psychopathy and gun crime galore. If only people would read more and do more first-hand research (like go to Pubmed and looks stuff up and at least read the abstract) the quicker we could change these problems.

Reader
John Kiser

I think it is largely in European countries it is a lot easier to get help without hitting your pocketbook a lot. That and you have people paying attention to nip some stuff earlier.

Reader
Bruno Brito

> My answer on this is to legalise all drugs, take the criminal involvement out of it.

I completely agree with this. Specially since the US is one of the biggest users of legal drugs there are.

Reader
Sally Bowls

During a press conference today, Wichita deputy police chief Troy Livingston said the caller had reported a hostage situation. In the call, which was partially played at the conference, the caller said his father had been shot in the head and was not breathing, and that he had his family at gunpoint. He also claimed to have doused the house with gasoline.

“I might just light the house on fire, burn the whole thing down,” the caller told the dispatcher.

When police arrived on the scene, a man answered the door and was shot and killed by an officer.

The male was given verbal instructions and complied, said Livingston during the press conference. But according to the department’s statement, he reached towards his waistband, leading an officer to fire.

Reader
Bruno Brito

My god.

Reader
Hirku

Well according to the CBS story that crime in Kansas carries a max sentence of 136 months and I hope that’s exactly what he gets. A very strong example needs to be made of him.

Reader
Slaasher

136 months. He would only serve 15 in that case. That’s absurd!!! He got a man killed!

Reader
Bruno Brito

15 years is quite a long time. In a prison, where you’re a nerd who can’t keep your rage in check.

Reader
Slaasher

Oh he’s a nerd who cant keep his rage in check. In that case lets just give him a slap on the wrist. Whose gonna tell the widow?

Reader
Utakata

Like that comment would even fly less our country…unless you’re from the Jason Kenny part of it. o.O

Reader
Bruno Brito

15 Years is NOT a slap in the wrist.

Reader
Hirku

Bruno, Slaasher means 15 months, not years. And I agree that would be a slap on the wrist.

Reader
Utakata

Slaasher is likely pulling that number from his ass. No where does it state 15 months. Mr. Bruno stands correct.

Reader
Bruno Brito

Oh, ok. 15 months is a slap in the wrist.

But:

By law in Kansas, 80% of a sentence must be served. Your math is a little wrong there. He would do something more in the lines of 8 years or 96 months.

Under my comment, mistressbrazen said that. So: While it’s not 15 years, and it is a bit lower than what i think it should be, 8 years isn’t a slap in the wrist either.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
mistressbrazen

By law in Kansas, 80% of a sentence must be served. Your math is a little wrong there. He would do something more in the lines of 8 years or 96 months.

Reader
Hirku

That’s good news!

Reader
rafael12104

Ah, just desserts, for Tyler at least. Many of us mentioned that the charge would be manslaughter of some flavor, and so it is.

Now, I hope Tyler gets the full treatment: No negotiated plea bargain, no mitigating circumstances bullshit.

Hello Tyler, the real world with real consequences here. You just go “pwned!” Blame the cops if you want, but you are the proximate cause. Without you, that innocent man would still be alive.

As for the cop? Well, it will depend largely on the circumstances. An innocent man got shot as he reached for his wallet? Adjusted his pants? I mean, from what we know, it is hard to see how or why the cop would suddenly fear for his life. Why didn’t anybody else shoot, then? Maybe this cop, in particular, is more suited to desk duty.

And why was there no verification that this was truly a hostage situation? Did anybody fucking call the residence at the very least? How about a neighbor or another family member? Where was the hostage negotiator who is presumably the first contact? WTF?!

Either way it was a costly mistake and there has to be a consequence.

Oh, and before it starts. This isn’t a pro-cop, anti-cop issue. The circumstances being what they appear to be, a jackass created this situation and the SWAT team really thought lives were at stake as a lunatic held them against their will.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

Maybe it’s as simple as he wanted to scratch his balls, but with so many trigger-happy police any excuse will do. I swear that some potential psychopaths who love to kill go into the police just waiting for the day when some guy goes to touch pants after being told to keep his hands up. Only in a country with armed police though. In our country, he would be tasered and wrapped in handcuffs until we could work thing out amicably. In the USA some cop sees him reach for his ID in his pants, cries “Yehaaaaaa Horsey!” and blows him away with a magnum 357 or similar.

Reader
Sally Bowls

“no verification that this was truly a hostage situation? ”
I do not understand this. You are going to delay the response and give the baddies a warning SWAT is coming? And if the person answering the phone says there are no hostages, why would the SWAT officer believe them? Couldn’t the baddie answer the phone and do the old “everything is under control. Situation normal. … But, uh, everything’s perfectly all right now. We’re fine. We’re all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?”

Reader
TotalCowage .

Couldn’t the baddie answer the phone and do the old “everything is under control. Situation normal. … But, uh, everything’s perfectly all right now. We’re fine. We’re all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?”

This would be the “baddie” that’s already on the phone with the police himself, a call he initiated, and saying he’s killing people…? Who was still on the phone long after the innocent victim was shot and killed?

You’re right, you don’t understand this. Assuming the situation is being truthfully described, who was likely to come to the front door? The “baddie”, or one of his hostages? Because one police officer fired from across the street without even knowing who it was.

Reader
John Kiser

There is protocol to you know handle a hostage situation. Shooting the person at the door that is largely complying with orders and might of went to open the screen door (reason for waist band if i recall correctly). You don’t shoot someone that looks unarmed and is generally complying when you yourself are under cover with a rifle trained on him.

First and foremost you don’t call in swat immediately for a situation like that as first responders are supposed to scope out the scene first and say if something is definitely going on. Second of all if someone is calling the police station directly that is “fishy” in the first place. No one is going to take time to directly dial the police stations number in these situations and the large reason this was handled so poorly was because a police dispatcher knows wtf to do in this situation whereas the person sitting at the desk at a police station likely doesn’t know proper protocol for dispatching at all.

Third there was no corroborating evidence that the person was in fact the person calling. While the address was right the house was described wrong and if it was a family home for years a person wouldn’t magically get that wrong.

Fourth and most importantly never ever shoot unless you are sure the person is armed (particularly when in cover) and identifying the person properly as the hostile that is on the phone. The fact that the person was still on the phone with the police at the time this person was shot and you had people with rifles trained on him in cover at an almost Olympic shooting distance for a handgun would actually suggest that the person coming to the door was a victim or a hostage particularly given they were told a hostage situation and it isn’t really common for a hostage taker to poke his head out alone with no hostage for a shield or similar. This could of easily been a shot hostage if this were a real situation because Coppy McItchyTriggerFinger had an itchy trigger finger. No ohter cop fired just the one dumbass that clearly shouldn’t be on swat.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

Yes – it’s a total disgrace all round.

Reader
rafael12104

It isn’t hard to understand, Sally. And it only takes a few moments.

Do you think I am suggesting you call ahead before SWAT is ready and in place? No. Not at all. Before you go in, guns blazing? You make sure. Yes. And they have professionals who in fact do communicate with perps in hostage or life and death situations. Hostage negotiators aren’t new or uncommon.

In addition to that, you have other avenues to gather information. Neighbors, family, etc. etc. Or how about simple observation?

It isn’t complicated in my view and absolutely necessary to the best of their ability. Yes, you are right, the info you get may be flawed or have unintended consequences but you have to try. Why? Because of what actually happened.

Reader
Denice J. Cook

Unfortunately, this is probably one of those situations that will go down as a training example for future generations of law enforcement– which is better than no good coming out of it at all, but tell that to the deceased’s family.

Reader
rafael12104

Tragic. Tragic and sad… everyone loses.

Reader
Bruno Brito

“SIR, we’ve been warned this is a hostage situation!”
“It’s just me and my family here!”
“Officer Wilson, check that”

*Wilson checks around the house*

“Commander, it seems there’s no situation going on over here.”
“Sir, comply with our orders, do NOT move your hands, please, we don’t want anything to happen. Please, is there a hostage situation happening right now at your house? We’ve been called.”
“NO! It’s me and my family.”

I can think of other ways that could be done better. But just TALKING to the guy would be a good one.

Sorry. I’m not buying this. The police was awfully unprofessional on this.

Reader
Slaasher

The person who instigat6d this situation needs to get 15- 20. I have zero mercy in my heart for this sort of thing. To whatever judge that does this sentence for this piece of shit: throw the book at him and send a message that will be heard everywhere.

Mewmew
Reader
Mewmew

They’re saying the victim that was shot was moving his hand towards his waist, where he could have possibly had a weapon so that’s why they shot him.

The very ugly piece of garbage that initiated the phone call isn’t really that phased by it. They interviewed him and he pretended he was a bit, but just look at his words:

“”Of course, you know, I feel a little of remorse for what happened. I never intended for anyone to get shot and killed. I don’t think during any attempted swatting anyone’s intentions are for someone to get shot and killed,” said Barriss from the Sedgwick County jail. “I guess they’re just going for that shock factor whatever it is, for whatever reason someone’s attempting swat, or whatever you want to call it.””

“a little remorse” “a little” – he got someone killed and his response that he probably feels he needs to give to pretend he feels awful about what happened is to say he has “a little remorse”.

He also had tweeted before he was arrested “I DIDNT GET ANYONE KILLED BECAUSE I DIDNT DISCHARGE A WEAPON AND BEING A SWAT MEMBER ISNT MY PROFESSION.” So he thinks he is innocent of wrong doing.

I’d be devastated and a pile of tears and anxiety, I would barely be able to function or live with it if I had made the phone call that initiated this all. Of course, I wouldn’t have done anything like that to begin with ever, but if I did I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. He can barely pretend he’s even a little phased.

You get people with live guns to go into a situation and there is always the possibility of deaths. This was just some poor guy who they had the wrong address.

An innocent Father of two young kids that will never have him there again in their lives. Kids that also relied on him to bring them up. Their home, their lives, their Father, all gone.

And the ugly piece of human trash that made the call that initiated the entire situation doesn’t feel he really has blame in this. He may pretend he does to get a lighter sentence, but we’ve seen his words before he was caught and he thinks he isn’t to blame. His words after he was caught aren’t sincere at all.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

The Police deserve at least 49% of the blame in this though. They have shit all over them because of this – blowing someone away who just reached for something when you already have rifles trained on him from short range with no chance of missing. They didn’t even wait until a gun like object was seen. To my mind the cop who shot him should be charged with involuntary manslaughter (and lose his job etc) and the guy who called it in charged with, at least, manslaughter. I also think they need to look at the law in this situation – I don’t think the law has this covered properly and there needs to be a new charge but I can’t think logicallly what it is at the moment. I mean, we can all see it and feel it, but it is hard to call it what it is as it is not quite First Degree Murder but not a kick in the ass off it, yet not really second-degree murder, and the intent, to me, makes it more than manslaughter.

Reader
Bryan Correll

I’d be devastated and a pile of tears and anxiety, I would barely be able to function or live with it if I had made the phone call that initiated this all. Of course, I wouldn’t have done anything like that to begin with

I’m pretty sure anyone who isn’t a sociopath would feel the same.

edangerous
Reader
edangerous

It’s sad that the fear of everyone having access to guns seems to prompt a shoot first, ask later response.

So many things wrong with this case, from the 3 idiots that instigated it, to the cop shooting an unarmed man and some innocent bastard dying because of them.

Reader
Bruno Brito

The level of wrong with this news is off the charts, but honestly, what could have happened for the police to shoot the innocent fellow?

” who was subsequently shot and killed by police after opening his door.” Like, REALLY. WHY did he get shot if it was a bogus case?

Reader
silverlock

Reader
Knox Harrington

When SWAT gets called, they automatically assume they have a situation. They are beyond the point of investigating as to whether or not there is a situation. And in actual situations, there usually isn’t time to investigate whether it’s a situation or not. They obviously don’t go in guns blazing as their intention but when they break the door down assuming it’s already a situation and the innocent guy is holding a TV remote or something, in that split second they can perceive that as being a weapon and they immediately take the person down.

I am of the opinion that police nationwide should be trained by the military because they’re the only ones experienced enough to teach police how to assess threats and properly clear the room. When you look at all the urban warfare in Iraq, American forces would go into houses not knowing who’s in there. It could be civilians. It could be insurgents. And they were trying to build relations with the civilians so they couldn’t just let fear overcome them and shoot anything that moves. It’s that level of mental preparedness and stoic detachment that needs to be passed on to police forces because majority of the wrongful police shootings in this country have been due to them panicking and misreading the situation.

ihatevnecks
Reader
ihatevnecks

SWAT wasn’t called here. Normal patrol officers were sent to assess, as it was considered too early for an actual SWAT response. In fact, according to the police department there, it IS standard for regular officers to investigate whether or not it’s a situation before sending in SWAT.

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article193294019.html

Reader
Knox Harrington

Yeah that’s the standard everywhere. The way this story has been “reported”, they’ve been making it out to be like SWAT just went in there and shot the guy. If they did indeed follow every protocol, then the onus is actually on the victim to act and react appropriately in that situation. And that’s another thing: civilians need training too when it comes to dealing with police. When I was a kid, police would come by to our elementary school class and they’d spend an hour talking to us about how to comply with the law and respect police officers and listen to them and do what they tell us to do etc etc etc. So many people have been shot simply because they did not do what they were told. Basic common sense.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

No. this is letting the gung-ho, trigger-happy asshole police shooter off the hook. And there are too many of them. People scared out of their wits might reach for their wallet for ID or drop an arm by mistake. Why not just Taser the guy instead of blowing him away when he wobbles a bit because he is scared. There is shit all over the police for this and they really need to start getting their act together and start using non-lethal stops. In my country cops are made up mostly of people who could find nothing else to do or are just looking for a power trip, so you aren’t exactly dealing with the brightest, most competent people in the first place, so you better have EXCELLENT training in place. It is happening far too much in the US and especially to innocent black people – who might as well all be running around with targets on their backs.

ihatevnecks
Reader
ihatevnecks

Basic common sense might go out the window when you open your door to bright flashing lights and guys who appear to be pointing guns at you from across the street, with zero knowledge why, when you know for a fact you haven’t done anything warranting such a scene.

For most people, that’s not a situation you *ever* encounter – so expecting them to be able to react “appropriately” is asking way too much, regardless of what Officer Dan told you in 5th grade.

On the other hand, those guys with the guns? They do this shit weekly, if not daily, depending on where they work. They actually get trained on this regularly. I think it’s far more appropriate for them to *not* shoot at the guy whose hand is near his waist, with no actual physical evidence of being armed, when they’re all behind the cover of their car doors.

People can easily get nervous in just a routine traffic stop, and that’s nothing compared to what happened to the victim here. Sorry, but it’s ridiculous to say any kind of common sense applies to the guy with the guns pointed at him.

Reader
Knox Harrington

Nobody here knows exactly what happened with this particular incident. But generally speaking, if a cop has a gun in your face yelling at you to get down on the ground, you better get down on the ground. You don’t ask them questions. You don’t reach for your wallet. You don’t do anything else but get down on the ground. There is a time and place to prove your innocence and it’s not when cops are demanding your compliance in a high-stress situation.

So many of these wrongful shootings could have been avoided if the person simply complied immediately. Cops absolutely need better training. No doubt about that. But civilians need some training too because it seems they’ve forgotten how to deal with cops. Again though, I am just making a general statement and I’m not saying one way or the other who was at fault in this particular situation because there simply isn’t enough information to make that assessment.

Reader
Bruno Brito

>So many of these wrongful shootings could have been avoided if the person simply complied immediately. Cops absolutely need better training. No doubt about that. But civilians need some training too because it seems they’ve forgotten how to deal with cops. Again though, I am just making a general statement and I’m not saying one way or the other who was at fault in this particular situation because there simply isn’t enough information to make that assessment.

I disagree. If you, as a civilian get a gun pointed at you by a cop, that cop is completely wrong.

There is NO right for a cop to leisurely point a gun to civilians, and no civilians should comply for SHIT towards a fucking idiot with a badge.

It’s not the civilian’s fault that the force is pathetic nowadays.

Being honest with you? I fucking hate cops. I’m more scared of them than bandits in my country because when a cop kills someone, he doesn’t even answer for it.

And if you’re a penitentiary agent? Fuck, don’t meet those guys in a dark alley.

I have a shitload of stories about police brutality in my country, and it’s nothing you guys ever heard.

Reader
Loyal Patron
Armsbend

Take guns away from people. Once they are gone take them away from the police. Then get rid of most of the police. Problem solved.

Reader
Knox Harrington

What world are you living in?

Cyclone Jack
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Cyclone Jack

People have been killing people for longer than guns have been around. And if you take the guns away from the police, who will you send after the criminals with guns? Are you going to call the military every time you need to do a drug bust?

Reader
Bruno Brito

Being honest with you, while people have been murdering each other for centuries before guns, guns are made with a single purpose: destruction.

I would prefer if we would go back to attempt mass genocide with adapted tools ( axes, bows, spears and maces ).

It would be easier to contain.

Reader
Knox Harrington

Prohibition doesn’t solve anything. It creates a black market, organized crime, and only makes the issue of public safety worse.

Cyclone Jack
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Cyclone Jack

No argument, but that line has been crossed and there is no going back. We can’t get rid of all of the guns, but we can try to become a better people to where the guns are no longer needed. Unfortunately, we are far from being there. :(

Reader
Bruno Brito

As long as human beings strive to be better human beings and worse people, we’ll never get there.

Human instinct is just too powerful, and we still didn’t get to the point where our social prowess can nullify that instinct.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
mistressbrazen

There are many entities besides the military that can provide the police with appropriate training. There are a couple of projects going on now in the US, where the police are receiving heightened training or how to respond in a crisis situation. Proper training can reduce the instances of police killings of innocents. They just have to be taught how to recognize and employ options.

Also it isn’t accurate to say SWAT comes in and they are past investigation Even when SWAT is involved a well trained police force will attempt contact first, then negotiation, if the situation permits.

Reader
Bruno Brito

“It’s that level of mental preparedness and stoic detachment that needs to be passed on to police forces because majority of the wrongful police shootings in this country have been due to them panicking and misreading the situation.”

Yeah. If anything, this would not happen either.

It’s really bizarre how there’s a sect of the police that works with a itchy trigger-finger. I remember the Baltimore issue, and the Military said that the police was awfully misconducting there, because you NEVER put a weapon at eye-level and a finger on the trigger if you’re not shooting.

I get that the Swat can’t fully investigate, but honestly, they should be at least aware of the difference between people chilling or meth being cooked in a mass murderer’s basement..

Reader
Tanek

I am sorry it had to come to a death to get some actual attention on swatting, but I hope we can now move to making the action a more serious crime with consequences even if no one is killed.

My understanding is that Barriss was not even one of the CoD players. One of them contacted him to have the swatting done. That person should, I think, be on the hook for this, too.

Reader
rafael12104

Yes. If that is the case, bring that punk in too.

Reader
Bruno Brito

I wanna know why did the innocent man get shot, honestly.

Reader
Tanek

While that is certainly something that needs to be investigated, I don’t want it to be seen as an excuse here. Swatting was the cause of this man’s death. Period. The defense can’t be given room to say “it would have only been an innocent prank if…”

We have all known for years that some swatting incident would end like this. It was foreseeable, it was inevitable. It needs to be dealt with as a serious crime, independent of any investigation into the officer’s actions.

Reader
Bruno Brito

What excuse? I want everyone who did this shit arrested. The idiot who swatted him, and the cop who thought it was a good call to bust a cap on a father of two.

Period. There’s not excuse here.

Reader
Tanek

It is just that all your comments have the focus on the cop. I want that investigated, but the answer to why the person was shot in THIS case? Swatting.

Reader
Bruno Brito

Yeah, of course it was. Because the guy in question who commited the crime was charged and will serve his time.

So, i’m asking now about the cop who actually pointed a loaded gun at a innocent man and shot him in the head. What’s going to happen with him?

And no. Swatting was the major reason why the SWAT was there, but it was NOT the reason why he got shot. He got shot because a cop shot him. Don’t tell me the Swat is trained for almost all shitty situations, but can’t deal with a bogus call.

Cyclone Jack
Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Cyclone Jack

SWAT was not there, it was the local police department who possibly were not properly trained for a situation like this.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Darthbawl

I’m pretty sure things in here won’t stay very civil, but one can keep some hope up.

Reader
Kevin McCaughey

Turns out it did stay civil. Good discussion and a lot of agreement. Most people seem to be assessing this situation pretty accurately. There is a lot of shit to go round and plenty of people for it to hit – not least the POS that called this in and the gung-ho police officer (and police training and procedure).

Reader
Bruno Brito

People can be more than just animals if you give them a chance and good educations.

Too bad, it only work in small-scale situations.

wpDiscuz