The Daily Grind: If you like PvP, why do you play MMOs?

    
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During the discussion in the World of Warcraft PvP gear flattening article last week, longtime Massively OP commenter SallyBowls wondered why serious PvPers bother playing MMOs. “Especially in 2015, if you really are about competing, then why are you not playing one of those games, typically an e-sport, where the balance is taken more seriously?” PvP causes balance issues for PvE, the argument goes, and no doubt MMOs attract a certain segment of gamers who just want a gear advantage for griefing purposes.

I think it’s a fair question. For my part, MMO world persistence and character personalization is more than enough to make me heavily favor MMO PvP over MOBAs and OFPS, but I wonder whether you have other reasons. If you like PvP, why do you PvP in MMOs and MMORPGs instead of other genres?

Every morning, the Massively Overpowered writers team up with mascot Mo to ask MMORPG players pointed questions about the massively multiplayer online roleplaying genre. Grab a mug of your preferred beverage and take a stab at answering the question posed in today’s Daily Grind!
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Dixa
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Dixa

I love the moronic troll responses.
1) the parrot – why do you play mmorpg’s to pve?
MMORPG’s are evolved from MUD’s, which evolved from pen and paper role playing games. You didn’t attach each other while sitting around a table with a dungeonmaster unless you failed a roll and were mind controlled or confused. This moronic, parrot-argument is invalid the minute it forms in your pre-pubescent, console-kiddie brain.
2) both systems can co-exist
no, they can not. One system is always valued higher than the other by investors, therefore ceo’s which means developers must align their priorities with that which makes them money. PVE was always the driving factor in WoW and there was always a large outcry when something was nerfed due to pvp performance before pvp specific gear systems were introduced.
WoW is the closest you will ever get to both systems working together, and only because they are kept as seperate as possible gearing wise, and you don’t have to pve to advance in pvp or pvp to advance in pve. Needing to pvp to advance a pve objective was a point of contention with the recently released SWTOR expansion pertaining to a specific companion acquisition.
Unfortunately, most twitch viewers watch people who just pvp all day in these games. The top viewed games are all pvp. There are a handful of exceptions – notably cutting edge raiders or those who became popular early on the service like towelliee – yet most viewers are watching arenas.
arena pvp is not different inherently than playing halo 2 on your console, except your opponent is not in the same room and there is a chat box. nothing has changed. the only pvp that is really matters in my opinion is objective, squad-based. 64 man conquest on bf4 is heaven and where real pvp shines. everything else is all about me me me. it’s sad, and a reflection of the current poor state of our society as a whole.

Vikingr
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Vikingr

Caec 
“It’s just a strange question to ask why anyone want to beat someone else.”

I don’t agree about that. The type of games where you have a goal and must “win” to escalate or unlock another level, is simply uninteresting to me. I prefer sandbox games where I can do what I want and define what’s fun myself. Beating someone else is not one of my goals or even fun.

Vikingr
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Vikingr

Smiggins 
I didn’t say I wasn’t PVE-in in  single player games.

SanguinaryBlade
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SanguinaryBlade

Trust me, I know what you mean, you’ll find the older generation usually accepting, but I don’t know is it because the pvp community is full of immature adults or a pitch work raging cult of tweens or what’s going on I lost count. I really enjoy guild politics and economical warfare, fighting for resources trading or other aspects, enmity of different faction and so on, something more grand than a death match or aimless arena pvp. (Which is fun from time to time, but yeah).

syberghost
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syberghost

SanguinaryBlade the best summary of the PvP community in most MMORPGs with PvP servers is the fact that whenever anyone attempts to address the state of affairs that causes your PvP servers to be practically devoid of players, a bunch of folks (usually the same bunch of folks) come out of the woodwork and attempt to drive everybody out of the conversation.

We leave the conversation for the same reason we leave your servers. When you figure out how to stop driving us out of the one, you’ll know how to not drive us out of the other.

Remianen
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Remianen

ntellect BrennanK What was the buzzword Smed was beating the drum for with H1Z1? “Emergent gameplay”? EVE typically stands on the ‘other players as content’ side of the fence too. The problem is human nature. Most humans hate to lose and if the loss was unavoidable (i.e. a much more developed character preying on them), it makes it even worse. If Floyd Mayweather offered $25 million to fight him, most people would agree to it and they’d feel okay about taking the L because they’re getting something valuable to them out of the deal. That isn’t the case with PvP in games (MMO or otherwise). No one has yet been able to come up with a system that punishes the people who willfully behave in a manner sure to scare off a large audience. PvE doesn’t have that problem.

SanguinaryBlade
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SanguinaryBlade

it seems the biggest complaint is in regards to low player killing or griefing while someone quests, I believe there is many fun solutions aside from the lazy choice of safe zones and all that, regardless people seem to have less tolerance now, God forbid you allow someone the power to disturb your gameplay with pvp

Remianen
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Remianen

ntellect SanguinaryBlade God yes!

SanguinaryBlade
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SanguinaryBlade

Exactly that. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Also It felt like we had a sense of belonging in MMO communities, I’ve made many many friends back when in the early MMOs, I bet the number of players wasn’t that much compared to today’s top MMos yet they always felt alive somehow? Now even if there is millions, it just feels empty and shallow, and the community all but shy or toxic, rare is the good moments with people, seems no one is inclined to chit chat anymore, the only chat in a content Party or something seems to be insults if someone messes up the supposedly perfect calculated run. I’d reckon you’d get more life out of npcs than players nowadays, except save for the few blessed.

Remianen
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Remianen

syberghost Remianen SanguinaryBlade The Model T wasn’t the first car manufactured either but it’s the first one people mention when the subject comes up. Most people don’t even know what the Colt Runabout WAS. Same in this instance. The themepark style of MMO game was defined by World of Warcraft. EverQuest wasn’t a themepark by the most widely held definition of the term. EQ didn’t hold you by the hand from newbie zone to max level (quite the opposite, in fact). I’m guessing you weren’t playing EQ before 2004 or so if you believe otherwise. EQ dropped you into the world and left you to your own devices. There was no tutorial (which is why so many people had to learn the hard way, through hard experience and tribal wisdom, to remap their A key). UO and M59 didn’t hold your hand either and neither did The Realm. So if you’re going to say that WoW didn’t define the term, give examples of games that defined it better (and NOT strictly Asian ones since we know that’s invalid).

Your mention of where WoW’s dev team came from is invalid. That’s like saying a person’s past defines their future. It does not. Just because they liked the so-called “hardcore” playstyle in EQ does not mean they’d be precluded from doing something on the opposite end of the playstyle spectrum. In fact, much of vanilla WoW’s features are almost the polar opposite of EQ up to that point. EQ was closer to sandbox style than themepark back then.