Elite Dangerous: A ground-pounding newbie’s perspective

    
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Earlier this summer I wrote that Elite Dangerous community events were something the MMO community should watch. Watch. I never said play, and I never ended up pushing the “purchase” button when I saw it on sale. I’m not really a flight sim person. Heck, I’ve even mentioned several times that I prefer kart-racers to realistic racing games.

However, I recently snagged a review key for Elite Dangerous to try it out on the PlayStation 4. I even streamed my first experiences with the game. It was a rocky session to say the least, but I decided to stick with it for a few more hours after getting some support from viewers. I really wanted to be able to recommend the game as something to pick up, but honestly, I’m still in the “watch” category.

The simulator-game spectrum

I’ve covered this before, but one of the values of games is that they’re a simulation. Not all games need to be educational or aim towards higher meaning, but the good ones give you the opportunity to do so. To compare games with movies, think about Star Wars. If you come out of Return of the Jedi thinking, “That fight between Vader and Luke was cool,” that’s OK. However, if you recognize that the family battle represented Luke’s becoming his own man, that he rejected the advice from his older and more esteemed teachers to find a peaceful solution no one said would work, then you got a good second-hand experience from the movie. With any luck, that experience would connect with other experiences and guide you through life. Laugh if you want, but that’s basically the principle of education and how humans can learn better than many other species: We don’t need direct experience; we can simply bear witness.

Games can do the same, especially MMOs. I was a shy kid, but MMOs gave me opportunities to practice speaking to large groups of people, through both text and voice chat. Explaining gameplay mechanics, lore, and even some social strategies for alliance-building to people twice my age (or older) gave me confidence. My more outgoing friends and family who have seen me do interviews and streams always ask me if I’m nervous, or say, “Oh, yeah, you’re a teacher, so I guess you’re used to that.” Teaching certainly helped, but speaking up in MMOs is where I really started developing my public speaking persona. It wasn’t the games themselves but the experiences I was able to get through them. Moreso than any other genre, MMOs simulate societies, not just based on combat but on story telling, economics, and even research. You can get some of that from online shooters, but not all of it.

The thing is, the simulation isn’t just about how the game is made; it’s also about how the player approaches it. I’d probably place most MMOs somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, as they can be pure entertainment if you’re just logging in for quests, but they can be almost pure social simulation if you’re mostly using the game as a graphical chat room. Your choice of playstyle dictates how simulator-like the game can be.

This is where Elite Dangerous comes in. ED is an unrepentant space simulator. It is very possible to spend days/weeks/months flying around before getting to your location if you don’t use your hyperdrives or subcruising options. Gravity and heat from entering the atmosphere are real (dangerous) things. Star Wars this is not, but especially in a modern-day space sim, this isn’t uncommon either. They’re genre staples that I already knew I’d have to deal with in order to try to get at certain features that attracted me to the game. ED does take some liberties (we could go on for days about how realistic laser combat is), but moving my ship felt more like moving a vehicle than a game character. I do like vehicle-based games, but mostly if they’re simple or a side aspect of something more bipedally based. If realistic vehicular avatars are your style, ED may be for you. Maybe.

Accessibility issues

Let’s assume you like space simulators. Heck, I’ve played a few in the past. Demos with flight sim controllers make these games feel significantly easier to play since they better simulate the actions you’re taking in game. At home, I usually use a keyboard and mouse, and this is where my PC background may be at fault: I just can’t get over the PS4’s UI layout.

Using a mouse to point and click feels natural to me. Keyboard shortcuts are awesome since you have so many mapping options. A controller limits your options a bit but should allow for the same issue.

The problem is that there is a lot to control in ED. I’m not just talking about landing gear and balancing between systems, engines, and weapons’ power, but about basic things like navigating menus to check quests, interacting with NPCs, system messages, and messages to other players. Maybe I’m getting old, but I could barely read most of the game text on a 32 inch TV screen, even when standing right in front of it. I’d look up directions online and promptly forget them. Maybe the tutorial I experienced on the stream had been fixed, but revisiting it was neither fun or particularly enlightening.

Because of my frustrating stream, I went back to the game’s tutorial for help a week later. It was possibly patched as I’d seen warnings and messages that a rewatch showed weren’t in my stream, but it was still incredibly basic. I didn’t feel it tied gameplay together in a way that “stuck”; instead, it painted feature islands that didn’t connect to a broader image. I was struggling with basic gameplay in important ways. Why did my ship sometimes feel like it was being pulled in the wrong direction? How could I tell which way was “right” when trying to park a ship that wouldn’t dock? Did I have to go through the menus to scan objects, and why wasn’t there an onscreen hint about how to do it?

My space travel and docking skills improved over my original steam, but struggling with basic movement isn’t fun, especially when it took me 30 to 45 minutes to do a delivery quest with no combat involved. I stumbled on other ships to hail or signals to check during my flight but often overshot these targets. Exploration in space, as you’d expect in real life, can mean looking at a lot of nothing. I could float aimlessly for a while before giving up and going back on my simple delivery quest, unless I got bored and turned the game off. I hadn’t realized my quests had real-world timers, and so I’d log on to find I’d failed them because of this.

This is what many of our readers have complained about: feeling like they’re just floating aimlessly in space. I don’t wholly agree with this because I did have a lot of quest options. I found things I could have done if I could figure out how to do them. Because I felt like the learning curve was so steep, I didn’t want to do them. That’s the key issue I have with the game. For all the promise of the cool stuff I could do, the aliens pulling me out of hyperspace, decoding Morse Code space signals, and intergalactic piracy enhanced by deep spaceship controls, I just didn’t want to invest more in the game. I mean, on a surface level, my pride forced me to chug along, but after several hours of gameplay, I lost the will to go on, several times.

To be clear, this is about my own game preference. I like something accessible. If I can sit a small child or grandparent in front a game and they can “get it” enough to have fun, awesome. If it’s a bit hard for them, but casual gamers who grew up on Mario and Final Fantasy can figure out, that’s good too. But as a lot of readers have complained, the game can feel like a bunch of “nothing” if you don’t invest the time to get to know the game. I’ve played some games like this, such as the Monster Hunter series, but even that felt like it had a more measurable progression system for someone steeped in MMOs. If ED’s space game were connected with avatars that could board space stations, smuggle diplomats through the space port and onto the ship, and maybe engage in some hand-to-hand combat when someone betrays the group and tries to kill our pilot as he navigates an asteroid field, it’d grip me more.

That’s not Elite, though.

Good simulation, rough game

If I were into piloting or wanted to be an astronaut, I’d probably like Elite Dangerous more. If a student or friend had that interest, I’d recommend the game to him or her without hesitation. Heck, if I had friends I could jump into the game with, I’d probably try the game again.

But the stars didn’t align here. Elite doesn’t have a lot of control input that’s similar to most MMOs, especially on the PS4. That increases the barrier to entry for me and possibly many MOP readers, and I say that as someone who’s recently been juggling a motion-control fighter, third-person shooter, tap/swipe AR game, and turn-based RPG, at the same time and on various platforms. I assume that Massively OP readers probably play quite a few MMOs/MMO-ish games at the least, probably a few genres as well. We do have Elite fans here, but commenter complaints and my own experience make me feel like this is still a title I shouldn’t easily recommend that readers pick up without a lot of investigation and weighing against their personal playstyles.

I still say Elite Dangerous’ community events are one to watch, much like EVE’s. Even for a newbie like me, Frontier advertised its community event loud and clear from the start, even making it possible for me to jump in if I had been better prepared for the game. I wasn’t, but as I said before, I’m happy to stand on the sidelines and watch, hoping an MMO(ish) game in a genre I’m more comfortable with will be made by developers who’ve seen what Frontier and other companies have done in terms of community. We have more than enough kill quests and gear grinds. We need them to feel like they matter, not just in terms of lore, but actual social gameplay.

Massively Overpowered skips scored reviews; they’re outdated in a genre whose games evolve daily. Instead, our veteran reporters immerse themselves in MMOs to present their experiences as hands-on articles, impressions pieces, and previews of games yet to come. First impressions matter, but MMOs change, so why shouldn’t our opinions?
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PhoenixDfire

I don’t think that Elite was ever going to appeal because of the statement

I’m not really a flight sim person. Heck, I’ve even mentioned several times that I prefer kart-racers to realistic racing games.

. This is the main problem because if you don’t want to fly a space ship, then this isn’t the game for you.

The learning curve is high, that is very true but if you look at the same genre of games this come from (X-wing, Tie-fighter, Freespace, Wing Commander etc) that’s what the kickstarters wanted all about and when we get hold of Star Citizen, that will have the same level of learning curve. If your previous experience has only been ‘Click’ MMOs , learning to play ‘twitch” based control scheme is always going to cause problems.

Although I am a little jealous of PS4 owners getting in one go what we PC and XBox owners have slowly gained over the last two/three years, the amount of shear configuration and options can be overwhelming, but after running the new tutorials and watching some of the web tutorials, should be enough to get people started.

The main problem with Elite Dangerous is the perception that it’s ‘Galaxy Wide but an inch deep’ which is true if you all you do is run between the same planets trying to grind a trade route to death. The key to enjoying Elite is varying your own game play, the game gives you the choice to do different things but it’s still up to the player to choose those different paths. The game doesn’t hold your hand as far as that’s concerned. The exception are the Engineers, which in order to get access to these guys, you have to try different styles of gameplay, but that is a little advanced for players just starting out.

I don’t want to sound ‘Elitist’ (I’m sorry, so sorry) but there is an element of ‘Get Gud’ as far as this game is concerned, you have to learn how to fly your ship and what advantages and disadvantages it has, getting a feel to how the markets and mission boards work. As Yatzee said in his review ‘… before you can start out being a great space adventurer, you have to spend a little time as a space crap out.’

Most of the Community events (I take it you mean the Thargoid encounters and not the Community events that happen every week) could be considered high level content in the equivalent MMO, normally players who’ve been playing a while have a chance of these things happening to them. But even heading into a navigation beacon, looking for wanted ships and if the pilot is your rank or lower, shoot them and it will give you a real taste of why the space combat is awesome.

It has a its problems, as does any mmo when people have played through all the content they can. But until SC comes along (and I’m a backer of that too) its still the only decent Space MMO out there (Because No Man Sky didn’t cut it).

I know I sound a little disgruntled (maybe even bordering of white knighting) but fair play to Andrew for giving it a chance. I prefer to hear that people have tried it and found it was not their thing than just slamming it because they feel its a threat to their game. But, it’s really a game for people who want to fly space ships

Cheers

Colin Elite Podcast -Lave Radio Presenter , MassivelyOP Patron and Backer.

kah_9
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kah_9

Andrew said:
>> I’m not really a flight sim person.

Frontier apologist replied:
> This is the main problem because if you don’t want to fly a space ship, then this isn’t the game for you.

Dumb comment is dumb.

The problem isn’t that ED has you flying a spaceship. The problem is that it has you doing it in a nonsensical half-assed space flight simulator.

> that’s what the kickstarters wanted all about

The ED game that KS backers funded was not a space flight sim. It was supposed to be a sequel to Elite and Elite was in no way a simulator . It was a first and foremost an enjoyable game, with a fun but completely non-realistic flight experience. If Braben had told KS backers that ED was going to be a flight simulator they way it turned out, he probably would never have got the money to make it.

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PhoenixDfire

Ok I’ll bite. It’s pretty obvious from the Andrew’s article, he wasn’t a space sim kind of guy but fair play, he gave it a try. Both Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen comes from the stable of games like x-wing,wing commander and Freespace, which is what the industry refers to the space sim, and if you don’t get excited by the thought of those kind of games, then you’re not going to enjoy this one. To me he’d probably feel more comfortable with Freelancer, which is a lot more arcady and wasn’t there Black Prophecy? I can’t remember if that’s still running.

As far as the KS not getting funded, I guess you don’t know how hard core space sim the previous two elite games were. Personally I had a bit of a problem with them, the combat and the flight model was full Newtonian and not much fun just jousting away at your opponent (Much preferred Privateer and Privateer II flight model at the time). However, both Frontier and First encounters were still loved by the Elite community and because if that, it still would have been funded, there was enough demand there.

Heck, there was vast demand by the backers to make it Newtonian only but frontier stuck to their guns. That’s why there’s the flight assist off option, which makes the ship behave in a Newtonian way. It’s speed restricted because people who know how to run away, which would change everything into a tail chase and that’s no fun either.

Time has proven Frontier right because the game would wouldn’t be in the same place it is now. It would be a lot more like JumpGate. And if you thought it was difficult to get into before go play I-War and see how far you get.

I’m not an apologist, I’ve ripped into Frontier for them not getting multi-crew right, their lack of support for CQC and don’t get me started on the powerplay parts of the game but FDev have got a lot more right than wrong and as long as you go looking for the content instead of it waiting for it to come to you, there’s still tonnes to do in there.

kah_9
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kah_9

> However, both Frontier and First encounters were still loved by the Elite community and because if that, it still would have been funded

Frontier First Encounters was hated by Elite players as much as by gamers as a whole, being a legend as the most bugged PC game of all time. And David Braben was clearly aware of this when planning his Kickstarter funding pitch. He made no mention of this game in his pitch, even leaving it off the list of previous Elite games, even though it is the only space sim that ever came out of Frontier.

> Time has proven Frontier right because the game would wouldn’t be in the same place it is now.

The place this game is now is down the toilet.

Look at the Steam figures. PC/Mac sales non-existent. The user score rank is a pitiful 25%.

Or Look at last month’s release of the PS4 port. A load of bugs unfixed from the PC version plus persistent CONNECTION TO SERVER FAILED making it unplayable for many. It dropped out of the UK sales chart like a stone, lasting only two weeks.

It is no surprise that the very next thing Braben announced was that he was selling a load of company shares to raise money. And no surprise that he DIDN’T say any of that money was going in to Elite Dangerous.

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PhoenixDfire

There was enough nostalgia there for both the original Elite and Frontier (Elite II) to make it over the kickstarter finish line. And as you’re probably aware, First Encounters was released too early, Gametek (the publisher) were struggling for cash and pushed FFE out too early. There was a court case over it and it was acknowledged that the out of court settlement was in Frontiers favor. The community blamed Gametek for that debacle not Braben.

As far as the PS4 is concerned, Where are you getting the figures from? According to Game, last week it was still at number 7. They found that disconnection issue and it’s been mostly resolved (The BT hub router being the main culprit and outside of Frontier’s control).

With regards to the PC, you know its reached its saturation point. That’s why you get the DLC like Horizons and 3304 which is being announced at the Expo on October the 7th. It’s effectively a yearly sub which allows the game to continue, just like any of the other expansion packs you find in other MMOs.

I’m just trying to understand why you hate the game so much. There are still over 4,000 people playing a night on steam alone and then you have the non steam PC players, the Xbox players and now the PS4 owners and they wouldn’t be playing it if it was a 25% turkey as you claim.

kah_9
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kah_9

> First Encounters was released too early, Gametek (the publisher) were struggling for cash and pushed FFE out too early.

The person who released FFE too early was David Braben, when he delivered a bug-riddled mess marked V1.0 for publication. Already six months late. Gametek gave him three more months to fix it and when still could not get it to saleable state Gametek cancelled the game and sued him for the best part of a million pounds.

> it was acknowledged that the out of court settlement was in Frontiers favor.

Complete fiction.

> As far as the PS4 is concerned, Where are you getting the figures from?

The UK games software chart.

> According to Game, last week it was still at number 7.

Proof needed. Because right now it is nowhere in GAMEs Top 75.

> With regards to the PC, you know its reached its saturation point.

Yes. The ED game Frontier projected would sell 2m to 30m copies has (according to available figures) ground to a halt at 1m copies.

> There are still over 4,000 people playing a night on steam alone

Even forgetting the fact ED cheats the Steam play measure, bigging up the numbers by a factor of ten or more, Steam Charts monthly average shows the game has gained 22 players in the last two years. Yes, just 22 players, out of half a million people who bought the game in that period.

Please don’t try to pretend that is success.

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PhoenixDfire

I don’t have to pretend that Elite: Dangerous is a succsess. It’s pretty obvious it is. You just wish it wasn’t.

I was wrong about the 4000 a day playing alone on steam, at this moment, there are closer to 6000, with the number of unique players playing the game at some point during the day is almost 9,000 and that’s just steam, there are lot of original kickstarters who never converted their accounts. + Xbox and PS4 players as well (That’s a healthy player base).

The projection you supplied (from two years ago) shows the progress of the game to be between Base and Mid level (No-one should ever believe the bull value). That’s quite acceptable an income stream and enough to warrant it’s continuation.

We’ve seen our podcast numbers, which is just about elite dangerous, in the tens of thousands per week and that has still steadily climbing for the last few months. That does not sound like a game that is dying (as much as you want it to).

But back to the original points;-

The reviewer felt that the game didn’t align for him because it wasn’t his kind of mmo. Ie a twitch simulator like experience.Fair play to him for trying something outside his comfort zone but if you’re not into that space sim genre, chances are you going to feel a little lost.
The kickstarter would have been funded, even if it had been the full newtonian space sim model. If you’d followed the kickstarter, you would have seen that.
From what I’ve seen, the PS4 owners who have got the game are enjoying it, especially after the last set of patches and the BT router fix went in, and there are a lot of them.
There is going to new DLC next year, which will be detailed in the expo on October 7th which means the game will not be going into a ‘Maintenance Mode’.

Seriously though, why the hate. Did someone at Frontier run over your favorite puppy or something?

kah_9
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kah_9

> I was wrong about the 4000 a day playing alone on steam, at this moment, there are closer to 6000

Yes, this week’s peak is just 6000 players. Down from 18,000 before Frontier further broke this already broken game by adding its Horizons “season” of expansions. Which it still hasn’t finished, two years later.

> PS4 players as well (That’s a healthy player base).

PS4 players are almost non-existent, because the PS4 version died the death on launch. The disc edition sold less than 7000 copies in the UK before falling out of the chart, and it hasn’t returned.

> The projection you supplied (from two years ago) shows the progress of the game to be between Base and Mid level

Wrong. ED’s base (minimum) projected sales quantity according to that Frontier pitch to investors was 2m copies. The actual sales to that date are between 1.0 and 1.4m copies, according to the only available figures. That’s substantially below the minimum and way way below the projected midline of 8m.

That’s what makes ED a failure. ED and Planet Coaster together failed to bring in enough money to fund Frontier’s continued game development, which is why Braben had no choice last month but to raise money by selling shares to a notorious Chinese microtransactions factory, losing his controlling majority in the company.

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primal

this is why ive always said ED is a very good exploration game but that is all it is. it has no other substance and if you dont like exploring its incredibly boring.

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Hurbster

Sometimes I feel like going back to basics and playing the original. Those epic dog fights with Fer de Lances and the whole 8 quests in the game (might be a few more in the Spectrum version), runs between Zaonce and Tionisia, good stuff.

kah_9
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kah_9

Frontier advertised its community event I’m happy to stand on the sidelines and watch

Andrew, did you ever succeed in watching an ED community event?

If so, I don’t know how. The game world is split into tiny islands running a handful of players. If you watch them doing a community goal you’re not seeing much community at all. When say 400 players do a community goal to say kill X pirates , the ‘community’ only exists as a few numbers on Frontier’s servers, where the kills of each little group are totalled up. You get to watch the result as a number on a text screen in your cockpit. That’s all.

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Cervator

While that is technically accurate when solely referring to the action IMHO it misses the bigger meta-game, which is also the big deal with EVE.

Community events usually have a limited amount of interaction in-game, although if you’re in Open you might end up in combat or try to help others avoid it. But following the community on Reddit or in the official forum, puzzling out the numbers and best trade routes, speculating over the outcomes especially on the more notable CEs (anything involving aliens or distant travel), after action reports … all that stuff counts as a spectator sport too.

Which really is the same with EVE. Most combat is super short. All the crazy neat propaganda, condensed battle reports, and meta-game plotting make up the cool bits and all happen out-of-game :-)

kah_9
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kah_9

In EVE, the coolness of all that community stuff that happens OUTSIDE the game comes from the coolness that happens INSIDE the game, like real-time battles of thousands of ships and destruction of massive space habitats that you can actually take part in or just watch if you want.

There’s none of this in Elite Dangerous. The ED game engine just can’t do anything more than tin-pot shallow p2p instances carrying a handful of players, varied by a few nightly updated numbers.

So yes you can read the ED forum/reddit and chat with a load of other players “using their imagination”(TM) to make up the the lack of community action in the game. But that’s all it is. There’s virtually no foundation for this with what happens and what you can actually do IN the game.

The current Thargoid features aren’t even discoverable by players. Until some Frontier server RNG ticks your account, the Thargoid bases are invisible in your game instances. And every time Frontier try to shoehorn in a story event, the game engine falls flat on its face, to the point that the devs don’t now even bother fixing event-breaking bugs until months after the event is old news.

People can pretend this is MMO community content all they like, but in truth the ED meta-game/MMO/community stuff is 95% advertising bullshit from Frontier and a few die-hard Kickstarter backers unable to admit that Braben conned them out of their money.

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CapnLan

I can definitely understand the accessibility issues. Despite being an avid Elite player, I actually returned the game the first time I bought it after about 40 minutes. I went back and picked it up again later on when the need to be in space was too much for me to handle anymore. I was able to get past the controls issue by dumping keyboard and mouse for an Xbox One controller with a chatpad attachment on it. Flying with dual sticks and then using keybinds on the chatpad lets me do everything. I highly recommend it for anyone playing on PC.

I can also understand the “floating aimlessly in space” feel that many players have. That feeling though is what draws me to the game so much. I LIKE the feeling of just floating out there in space with no directions. No story missions or episodes to chug through. I’m not the savior of the galaxy or the hero of the Federation/Empire. I’m just some random dude floating around out there doing whatever I feel like whenever I feel like it. I answer to no one. Except maybe the space cops when I accidentally murder people. But I digress. Over 600 hours later I’m still flying around aimlessly and trying not to accidentally murder people. And I love it.

Despite my love for the game, it absolutely is NOT for everyone. No way around that. If you don’t like flying through space with little to no directions from the game, then you won’t last long. And that’s okay. The best way I heard Elite described is that “It’s a sim for space nerds, by space nerds.” If you aren’t a space nerd looking for a space sim then it’s going to be tough going to get into it. Personally the space nerd in me loves flying to a random system 12,000 light years away from Sol and finding a Class 3 ringed gas giant with ammonia based lifeforms in the lower atmosphere. That’s kind of my thing right now in game. That’s clearly not going to work for many or even most out there. If you don’t like scanning planets or space trucking then I can honestly say to avoid Elite. If you like that stuff though, jump on in.

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BalsBigBrother

One of those times I wish I had a PS4 so that I would take you on a training run and give you some pointers in game.

That said if the game isn’t fun for you then it isn’t fun for you. Not everything will work for everyone as we all like different things. Will give you credit for at least giving it a shot so you can form your opinion from your own actual experience.

While I do disagree with the general gist of your article and would say that there is fun to be found in the game and a lot of things to sink your teeth into. You do have to be prepared to bash your head against the bulkhead for a little while before it all clicks together :-)

cmdr_cotic
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cmdr_cotic

Nice write up. One thing I like about Elite is how unapologetic it is, you’re practically thrown into the deep end and told to figure it out as you go which is something I really appreciate, I’ve felt like too many games try to cater for too wide an audience by making them overly accessible.

It really isn’t a game for everyone and that’s ok. I like its lack of classes and defined roles, I like the freedom it offers, not just where I can go but how I play, I like all the sciency-shit it does but lots of people don’t care for any of that, and that’s ok, choice is good.

If you’re into slow-burner, make your own goals, learn by failure gameplay and have an pretty decent amount of patience then it’s quite possible you’ll enjoy Elite.

kah_9
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kah_9

heat from entering the atmosphere are real (dangerous) things

Er what?? Not in Elite Dangerous. You can’t enter the atmosphere of any planet. If you try, the game pops up a cockpit message saying you’re ‘excluded’ – and stops your ship dead in space. On both gameplay and realism, that’s a resounding FAIL.

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Hurbster

Didn’t get Horizons then?

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A Dad Supreme

” Why did my ship sometimes feel like it was being pulled in the wrong direction? How could I tell which way was “right” when trying to park a ship that wouldn’t dock? “
====================
Ender: “Zero gravity. There’s no up or down. We need a way to orient ourselves. What if an enemy breaches a door?”

E.D. always seemed like “Privateer” without all the fun bits… just the boring parts to me, which is why I had little interest in it. SC “looks” far more interesting as a total game, but who knows how that’s going to turn out.

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styopa

I’m confused by the need I keep seeing articulated for “I want to get out of the ship and walk around” or EVE’s station-avatar silliness.

Flight sims NEVER gave you that. Nobody wanted an F14 flight sim where you could “get out of the cockpit” or “have a homoerotic locker room scene after a volleyball game”. They (we) wanted a game where you’re the pilot…all that other stuff, fuelling up, maintenance, taxiing to the flight line, etc was all in the rationalized background.

Is this not a thing anymore, or is this more about a person who really didn’t WANT to ever play E:D being assigned to play E:D and really not ever wanting to be there?

Godnaz
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Godnaz

have a homoerotic locker room scene

Whoaw, triggered.

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zeko_rena

Speak for yourself, I always wish I could get up and walk around at least inside the vehicles I am flying or driving when in simulation games