Destiny 2 admits poor communication on weapons and the latest faction rally

    
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Try it out.
The first time Destiny 2 ran a faction rally, its mechanics had a problem where players could basically just earn tons of tokens without firing any weapons or anything. This iteration of faction rallies tried to fix that, but the result has been another issue with token throttling. The latest dispatch from the development team accepts culpability for this, noting that this is part of an ongoing process to keep lost sectors rewarding while also avoiding the aforementioned “lots of tokens for no actual gameplay” problem.

It is, at least, an admission of fault, alongside the admission that poor communication about the Season 2 weapons was entirely down to developers failing to explain what was intended when said weapons didn’t launch right away.

This was on us. No excuses. […] We will be remedying this lapse in communication next week with details on what you should expect when the next Iron Banner rolls out in Season 2.

It’s up to the individual player if admitting the mistake and promising to do better actually ameliorates things at all. In unrelated news, Activision CEO Eric Hirshberg is stepping down in March with no reasons cited for his departure. No word yet on who will take his place.

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hurbster
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hurbster

Bungie just needs to stop lying now.

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Sorenthaz

I think the moral of the story is to not buy overhyped AAA games these days.

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Nick // Genghis

First I got shafted when 3 of Coins was super expensive with Xur then the price drop, then the Dawning event turned into a madhouse and beyond, and NOW we get token throttling and improperly implemented mechanics to a timed event? Sounds. About. Right. For the new Bungie.

I was overly excited when Destiny 2 was going to release on PC and played a lot of it, as I never played D1 because I’m a PCMR purist, (jk, but not really, PEASANTS!) and now I know why all those years of D1 people were all butthurt about stuff CONSTANTLY it seemed.

Welp, I’m getting closer and closer everyday to joining the butthurt ranks.

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Danny Smith

“Vague comments about listening or trying to improve in future”

DING DING DING! BINGO! I GOT BINGO!

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Mark

So let me check the list:
So far we’ve got death, taxes, and Bungie screwups.

CapnLan
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CapnLan

Wait. So the throttling wasn’t actually a bug and was an intended design? Oh my god. Bungie, you just proved that you learned literally nothing from the holiday fallout. So now we start the whole cycle all over again and are back to the “We’re listening” phase. Ugh.

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Nathan Aldana

They figure they can probably try it 5 or 6 times before people notice a patterm

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Dug From The Earth

They should start releasing their apologies with version numbers so we can keep track of them better like most devs do with patches.

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rafael12104

Hmm. Well, I suggest they just start patching apologies as well.

No need to start a whole new apology. Just add to the old one, patch it, and release notes on the additions or changes.

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Josh “358 Words of Nothing” Hamrick may just be my new favorite person at Bungo. I’ve never seen someone type so many words to say absolutely nothing, while also not sounding remotely like a human being.

This letter was not good. I get it’s a weekly update and it’s only been a week since the dev update, but this was not what they needed. They needed an apology, not more “we messed up, that’s on” (YEAH WE KNOW BUNGO) and “we’re still listening!” (WE’VE HEARD THAT A MILLION TIMES AND IT’S NEVER ONCE BEEN TRUE).

They’re still failing spectacularly at increasing communication in any remotely meaningful way and engaging with the community at all. They’re still failing to provide any transparency for what they’re actually doing to address issues.

The only thing they’re consistently delivering on is an ability to underwhelm and anger the community. I’m likely done with the game until the next DLC, since I purchased the season pass. Which is a bloody shame, because I WANT to play it, the gunplay is fantastic…it’s just that between the myriad in-game issues and the persistent frustration of watching Bungo screw up again and again it just kills any enjoyment.

At this point, the only joy I’m managing to get out of Destiny 2 is hanging around the subreddit and eating popcorn/shitposting/enjoying others shitposts while watching Bungo burn their house to the foundation.

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Dug From The Earth

Here is my flat earth theory for the day.

Bungie is over Destiny. They have another IP they want to dive into, however, due to the contract with Sony, they are stuck with all their funding/time/resources being commited to Destiny 2, Destiny 3 and maybe even Destiny 4.

So, make players hate the game enough that Sony no longer feels its something worth standing behind.

Destiny 3 gets canceled. Bungie goes off to make their next IP

:P

/endflatearth

(and for the record, the world is round. im just being silly)

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Contract with Activision*

Activision has a co-marketing partnership with Sony, it looks like.

And yeah, I’ve seen that theory (the “Major League” theory based off hilarious movie) pop up a LOT over the last week for some reason. It’s kinda odd, because it’s so completely insane and ludicrous, but some folks genuinely believe it to be a serious, credible theory. It’s amusing nonetheless, though : P

dixa
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dixa

Nobody cares about the apologies anymore. Stop DOING these stupid things thinking the players are too dumb to notice or figure it out.

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Sray

I’ve been saying this for a while now, but I’m going to reiterate this: Bungie isn’t behaving in evil manner, so much as it’s an incompetent manner. That’s not much of a defense, but it’s the truth, and so I think that admitting it is a good move for them.

Given the way that Bungie is set up with a development team and a live team, it would make more sense for the live team to take control two months before the game launches, not two months after, which is where their issues are coming from. The development team is putting everything in place for the launch version and the first DLC, but is not concerned with the connective tissue; which means they don’t have to worry about the game in the long term, and that is where all of these problems are happening: the average MMO is run mostly by the same guys who built it, whereas this one is not. This dynamic has to change for Destiny 3, because this is all the same things that happened last time, and that’s why players are less accepting of this now; and players are definitely going to need to see a lot more changes up front for the next one.

Personal aside: anyone who thinks Bungie and Destiny are on the verge of collapse needs to give their head a shake. Over 12 million units sold, and roughly 3 million still playing 4 month after launch: another sequel is guaranteed, and the game is nowhere near in as rough of shape as some claim.

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Hanlon’s razor – never ascribe malice to that which can be explained by stupidity. (paraphrased)

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Dug From The Earth

People often associate “Evil” with:

Irresponsible
Greedy
Arrogant
Deceitful
Condescending

All things which Bungie has, as a company, come across as to many people over the last many months.

Is it legit to say Bungie is “Evil” because of those things? Maybe… and then maybe not. Even if its not, none of those things are good to be associated with any game studio.

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Sray

I think Greaterdivinity phrased it better than me: there’s no malice there. The behavior among the “I don’t like Destiny 2” crowd is a reaction to malicious intent, and malice just isn’t there.

Being dissatisfied with the amount of content in the latest DLC, or attaching seasonal loot solely to RMT loot boxes are legitimate complaints, but the reaction have been grossly over the top.

Furthermore, all of this dog-piling on Bungie and Destiny 2 has just been a distraction from the far more disgusting, and obviously malicious, behavior of Activision-Blizzard, and Warner Bros Interactive. We want to talk about the real villains of 2017? It’s not Destiny 2 or Battlefront 2: they’re Call of Duty WW2 and Shadow of War; and neither neither one of which has generated one tenth as much crap as they should have for their far more egregious monetization schemes. The real bad guys are getting away with it while everyone is too busy complaining about a genial, bumbling screw up.

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Dug From The Earth

I think players are getting better at where they are aiming their anger

For example… no one really jumped all over Dice (the devs) for the battlefont 2 event. They blamed EA. Most people blame Activision for any greed and screwed up things with Call of Duty as well.

The thing with Destiny 2 however, as confirmed from bungie themself, is that a LOT of these bad choices and design decisions, are coming directly FROM bungie, not activision.

We cant just ignore the “smaller” issues just because there are bigger ones out there. Its all tied together ultimately. Its like getting mad at a cop for giving you a speeding ticket, when there is some homicide crime to solve in the neighborhood 5 blocks over.

(edit: For the record, maybe not on massivelyop, but Shadow of War got all KINDS of hate and bad press for the crap that game pulled. )

I also dont think all the anger is aimed at purposeful malicious intent. I think its there because people arent happy.

They wanted to like the game
They ended up not liking the game
That made them angry

People like to have a source for their anger, so they went looking for WHY they dont like the game, and the common cause of WHY, seems to point towards Bungie

Regardless of if Bungie Accidentally screwed up, or intentionally did, people are still angry that it happened.

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Sray

I don’t think that people are better at focusing their anger. I think they’re overreacting, and lingering on the smaller stuff (Bungie’s incompetence); while letting the bigger stuff slide (CoD, Shadow of War). And for what Shadow of War did, they didn’t receive enough bad press because the game still sold a huge number of copies; and Call of Duty has basically been a non-story despite being the biggest selling title of the year. One put a loot box RNG grind into a single player game, normalizing the practice by selling millions of copies regardless of outrage; and the other literally put a peer pressure system into lootboxes. Those things are far worse than Bungie’s continuously tripping over their own feet, and EA’s honest greed.

I’m not saying that criticism is unfounded: I’m saying that it’s disproportionate to what has actually happened, and that’s because there’s guys who are riding the wave due to the page hits and views that it’s been getting. I love Yongyea and Jim Sterling, but it is pissing me off that they’re riding this wave, and just letting CoD have a free pass. I know they’re supported through crowdfunding (I support Sterling’s Patreon myself, and will probably be adding Yongyea in the near future too), but they still need views and subscribers in order to get that funding, so they’re going to run stories that get the hits, and because EA went into radio silence mode over the holidays, Destiny 2 became the easy target.

I agree that is this from anger that people are disappointed that they wanted more from the game. But because of that, it’s easy page views, and thus the issues are blown out of proportion (in Bungie’s case, not EA’s). No one wants to read about yet another critic slamming Call of Duty because it’s bulletproof; or a single player game that came out three months ago; and there’s no news from EA: so there’s a disproportionate amount of anger being directed at one game and one studio because it’s the easiest target right now.

Is the criticism well founded? Absolutely. When a good game is poorly managed, does it make people justifiably angry? Absolutely. Is the degree of anger that we’re seeing over this justified? No, we’re seeing it because it’s the post holiday slow news period for video games.

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Dug From The Earth

I still disagree with you about the Shadow of War thing.

Im going with “You just werent exposed to enough of the bad press” for the game. Its there, in large quanities. Both from professional journalist coverage, and big popular youtube/twitch reviewers. Both sides. There were the reddit threads of big groups of players boycotting buying the game, etc etc. The game got all sorts of hate.

The difference? It just happened months and months before Destiny 2 was released.

We read things like “This game sold 800k copies!” and we think “Holy crap that must be a popular game”. However… in 2017/18, thats really not a “holy cow” number. There are tons of gamers today, and a AAA title based on a hugely popular IP, even with bad press, isnt going to struggle to hit that.

Just for further evidence

Report: Shadow Of War Sales Fell Well Short Of Warner Bros’ Expectations

The bad press and player anger DID affect how well they planned the game selling

The same happened for Battlefront http://fortune.com/2017/12/08/star-wars-battlefront-ii-sales/

but we are STILL talking hundreds of thousands of copies.

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Sray

I read all sorts of game news, and Shadow of War was all over the place for about two weeks, and then the focus changed to the newest shinny thing: Wolfenstien 2’s “controversial” killing Nazis (which I “controversially” stand behind as a good thing); and then Mario came out; and then we just didn’t have time for Shadow of War anymore because Star Wars. The crap being flung at Bungie has been sustained for nearly two months simply because there hasn’t another story, not because it’s justified.

Shadow of War might have fallen short, but they didn’t flat out bomb. Shadow of War was still the highest selling game of October; and Battlefront 2’s expected performance has only been slightly downgraded: it still sold over 1 million retail units in its first week, and was one of the best selling games on the Playstation network in December (sources: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/11/17/npd-october-2017-middle-earth-shadow-of-war-nintendo-switch-top-sales-charts/#90f200e25d5b ; http://www.vgchartz.com/article/271116/star-wars-battlefront-ii-sells-an-estimated-133-million-units-first-week-at-retail/ ; https://www.gamespot.com/articles/best-selling-ps4-games-for-december-2017-on-psn-in/1100-6456004/ ). Temporary outrage lead to slightly lower than expected sales, but didn’t make these games bomb.

But I’m not talking about sales: any time that a lootbox article comes up, Shadow of War should still be a huge talking point to this day; and Call of Duty WW2 should be at the top of the list for worst offenders. Neither one is getting the type of crap they still deserve to this day because that’s “old outrage” and someone did something wrong more recently. Despite the wrongs being dimwitted stumbling by someone who should know better, we focus our anger on that instead of the real bad guys, because they were bad a couple months ago and the dimwit screwed up last week.

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Dug From The Earth

And battlefront 2 was STILL one of EAs best selling games last year, despite not meeting expectations at all and getting more hate and bad press than any other game last year

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-battlefront-2-sales-november-2017-12

Did people let that game “slide” too as you accused players with Shadows of War?

It seems like you might be seeing the events happen, but you arent putting them into the right proportion with things.

Shadow of War should still be a huge talking point to this day

See, this is what im referring to…

Shadow of war isnt a talking point today because the game is no longer relevant in main stream games because its come and gone. A lot of this is due to it being a single player game, one that isnt meant to last 2+ years of constant player time like an mmo such as Destiny 2. (even still, Shadow of war has shown up on many youtube journalists “top 10 bad/disappointing/worst game list of 2017” in the last few weeks.)

Even Battelfront 2s media presence is dwindling. Why? Because a large number of gamers play it, then move on.

A game like Destiny 2 is meant to keep bring you back, creating a “world” for you to “live” in. Thats the point on an mmorpg style game.

Every time Destiny 2 fubars something in this “ongoing persistent world” There are current, active people around to be hit in the face by it. Every time Bungie/activision throws a pie, there are active people who are gonna get hit in the face with it, even months after the games release.

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Sray

Actually, BF2 is also supposed to keep bringing players back; as is CoD: thats the point of multiplayer, and seasons and special events. And the point stands for CoD: worst of the worst, but zero negative publicity. This is still selectively targeting one game.

And Shadow of War shouldn’t be “old news” is my point: the egregiousness of what it did shouldn’t have gone away. The same BS monetization of multiplayer games has found its way to the single player sphere now, and that needs to be a hige talking point for the industry.

Ultimately, we’re going to have to agree to disagree. As far as I’m concerned, this is a gross overreaction to incompetence due to slow news cycles, while the actual malicious behavior is ignored.

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Dug From The Earth

BF2 isnt selling DLC or Expansions.

It was 100% reliant on box sales and microtransactions, which were removed. That means the only way they are going to make money from the game, is new customers.

COD is a mess, has been for years. I think most people who know its a money making scheme avoid it like the plague, with every years new “Version”.

COD is however why Activision is being drilled into by many in the gaming community. Again, most of the big names in gaming news and journalism have started to tear apart how companies like Activision are choosing to do business. A good example would be Activisions attempt to get a patent for a really devious method of selling microtransactions based on an automatic grouping/pairing system for only gaming. Gamers jumped all over this.

Ignorance and tolerance for the things big names like EA are doing in the industry is in a positively growing state, more so than its ever been. You says that the focus in on the wrong things… To me, it sounds like you just arent opening your eyes wide enough. Its more obvious now, than ever. And its not just companies like Bungie that are getting pressured and criticized, its pretty much everyone at this point. Its not just gamers either… investors and such are also seeing these “missteps” by companies like EA, and are applying pressure to get them to get their act together as well.

CapnLan
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CapnLan

It looks like the player number is now down to 1 million as of 6 days ago. It’s still a very large active player number but it’s not at 3 mil anymore.

I finished scraping the Bungie.Net API, and have determined total, and (likely) active player counts. from DestinyTheGame

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Sray

Thanks, my 3 million number was based on the last datamined post.