The Daily Grind: How do you feel about the increased focus on PvP in upcoming MMOs?

Don’t look now, but PvP is coming — and it’s coming to almost every new MMO in development. It only recently hit me just how many upcoming games are being centered around PvP as a core mechanic. Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, Ashes of Creation, Wild West Online, Worlds Adrift, Dual Universe, Chronicles of Elyria, every survival sandbox you could name… all PvP, pretty much all of the time.

I don’t outright resent PvP from being in MMOs, but as a primarily PvE player, it concerns me to see a flood of this washing over titles that I would otherwise have no reservations about playing. Many of the worlds and mechanics of these games have appeal, but not at the expense of having some jerk ambush me and kill me in 1.5 seconds flat at any moment.

Heck, even Sea of Thieves’ piracy gameplay loop has triggered alarms in my head that captains will be looking to swarm the title with griefing tactics once they’re done playing the “proper” way.

Maybe I’m overreacting. How do you feel about the increased focus on PvP in upcoming MMOs? Why do you think we are seeing a rise of such games?

Every morning, the Massively Overpowered writers team up with mascot Mo to ask MMORPG players pointed questions about the massively multiplayer online roleplaying genre. Grab a mug of your preferred beverage and take a stab at answering the question posed in today’s Daily Grind!
SHARE THIS ARTICLE
Code of Conduct | Edit Your Profile | Commenting FAQ | Badge Reclamation | Badge Key

282
LEAVE A COMMENT

Please Login to comment
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most liked
Subscribe to:
Reader
Coma

“other” players are the natural mmo bad guys. pve opponents will never be as strong, smart or scary, which is exponentially exposed in large-scale raid vs raid encounters.

Gel
Reader
Gel

PVP is easier to implement than PVE, which takes AI, story writers, cut scenes and animation and a lot more work. PVP depends on other players providing the opposition and a good combat system. It’s easier to implement and maintain in the long run.

Reader
Roger Christie

Any game that doesn’t let me avoid PvP is a game I won’t be playing.

kjempff
Reader
kjempff

I never pvp but for those who likes that it is great to have some pvp mmos.
However, apart from my obvious bias, I think most of them will die fast simply because the pvp crowd is small percentage of mmo players, and there are just too many titles competing for them. I would put my money on Camelot Unchained and Crowfall as the last standing in 5 years from now.
For over a decade I have been hoping for a pve mmo that isn’t a boring story driven single player deal, so I think it is about time we see a real attempt at a sandbox pve mmo (EqNext could have been that, Pantheon might be that but at this point it is impossible to say, Saga of Lucimia is distant joker that may surprice).
Ashes will be another story driven (“wow clone”) as it looks for now, do we have anything else on the horizon ?

Woetoo
Reader
Woetoo

Overall, it’s probably a good thing.

I’m 99.9% exclusively a PvE player. I’ll PvP if I ABSOLUTELY HAVE to, in order to progress in my PvE goals. My approach to PvP is to either run away or simply stand still until dead. I’m bad at PvP and so really can’t be bothered. As such, I won’t be playing any of these MMOs. But I can see some potential benefits.

I’ve long thought that PvP should be entirely separate from PvE. No more homogenisation of classes so that healer cloth wearers can go toe to toe with plate wearing berserkers. No more dodgy talent trees that only work for PvE OR PvP. No more world events taking place in PvP zones, “because we’d like to introduce players to the joys of PvP”. No more farming PvP trinkets to do PvE raid bosses, because “you’d like PvP if you try it”. So this seems to be the answer to my prayers; a line in the sand to separate PvE and PvP without needing one to balance the other.

The worlds could end up being more immersive. With a need to make friends and form guilds to engage in the world, if only temporarily. I can see the joy in “/G I just got ganked. Anyone available to deliver payback?” For those that enjoy PvP on any level, things just got better. I won’t begrudge them that.

The PvP players will be all flocking to these other MMOs, even if only briefly. So I can continue to play my preferred MMOs without them. Win, win. Not that I really crossed paths with many PvP players anyway.

So many PvP focused MMOs in such a short time should get it out of developer’s systems. Part of me would like to think that when all these game inevitably fail, someone will draw a line under the PvP sandboxes and they’ll fall out of fashion. But inevitably, people will blame the graphics, or the mechanics, or the poor design, or the business model, or practically everything except the PvP nature of the concept. Still, I await The Witcher 4 MMO with anticipation (I made it up, stop drooling).

Reader
Alex Malone

Well, you can’t blame the nature of PvP for the failure of PvP in MMORPGs.

PvP has been highly successful in shooters, strategy games, fighting games, card games, racing games, sports games and mobas. In fact, it’s been successful in just about every genre except RPGs.

That should tell you that it is definitely down to the design.

That said, looking at the design of most of these upcoming PvP focused MMORPGs, I think you’re right and most of them will fail. The only one that stands a chance is CU, that game is tackling the core issues that have resulted in broken PvP for years. However, even with CU, the scope of the game is very narrow with long playsessions in mind, so it won’t make it big.

Woetoo
Reader
Woetoo

Well, you can’t blame the nature of PvP for the failure of PvP in MMORPGs.

So true.

Invariably, whether MMOs succeed or fail ends up being such a complex mix of parts, it ends up being practically impossible to put a finger on the top three reasons why any given MMOs works or fails. Everyone will have their opinion; most will be wrong.

I hope I was open about my biases, I’m not speaking from a position of high quality knowledge about any of these upcoming MMOs… just a wish for more PvE focused MMOs. Since that isn’t flavour of the month right now, I’m just hoping things swing back that way sooner rather than later.

As I said above, I think there are positive aspects to PvP focused MMOs in the near future. Most of which won’t benefit me personally in any way. But if they can find a niche to fill and fill it well, I wish all the good will in the world to the players who enjoy that play style.

It won’t be me. But then there’s no reason in the world it needs to be.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Yamael Angmar

For me I fear it’s pretty simple: I’ll be sticking with WoW / FF-XIV and staying away from anything that resembles PvP. A bit sad there are no new MMOs to look forward to but at least my old haunts are well supported.

Reader
Crowe

To answer the title question… I either feel like:
1. there’s a lot of upcoming MMOs that are going to fail
or
2. I’m too old to play the new MMOs. I remember when content was a thing and am tired of the sandbox PvP and anything that resembles MOBAs.

gelfred
Reader
gelfred

The most popular MMOs are all PvE ‘narrative’ games. GW2, ESO and WoW have quests or events with stories which when compared to singleplayer games or literature are threadbare, but the main chunk of the MMO market has much success combining this with loot or cosmetic rewards. This also allows more aggressive microtransactions, such as in GW2 and ESO.

A large part of MMO players dont seem to want much more than this, any game with more time investment required does not prosper.

PvP games will have problems with monetisation compared to the above. And their appeal is lessened to the masses due to time investment and lack of narrative content they can experience on their own schedule. I think Crowfalls more ‘log-in and go!’ game modes could have mainstream success if done right. And CU will be niche and happily so.

Planetside 2 is a good example of the problems PvP MMOs face. Performance and server issues, imbalance problems, and obvious struggle to find a profitable and palatable monetary system. Yet it always has die-hard players and constant churn of new players who quickly quit due to skill differences, population imbalances, confusion at overwhelming amount of game mechanics or perceived ‘pay to win’.

Very glad RvR is coming back, its my type of stuff, but it wont be an easy thing to do!

hamblepants
Reader
hamblepants

Anyone else notice that a third of the content of the comments is each side sideways saying that what the other side likes isn’t worth doing?

Reader
Roger Christie

Nobody is saying it isn’t worth doing, rather I won’t be forced into doing it.

hamblepants
Reader
hamblepants

From what I’ve seen, most MMORPGs (on average) are focused on Player vs. Environment/Monsters more than Player vs. Player.

I prefer faction-based Player vs. Player, so it makes me happy that I’ll (hopefully) have more decent options available to me and players like me.

I’m pretty picky with how I like my Player vs. Player content, so I doubt most of the new ones of these kind will be up my alley.

I’ve noticed that most people in this thread hate or dislike Player vs. Player, and I’m glad MMORPG devs are realizing that if every dev creates games (mostly) for people who hate Player vs. Player, there will still be a significant number of folks like me who won’t have a game to enjoy.

So now they’re making games for us. Yippee! As long as the pendulum doesn’t swing too far to our side, cause players like me are still minority, and it will take far fewer games to “fill up” this market.