World of Warcraft Classic is still under development, will begin with patch 1.12

If it seems like World of Warcraft Classic would be an easy project, you may not have spent as much time thinking about it as the developers. Heck, according to the latest development watercooler, it took some time for the team to decide what classic World of Warcraft should even be. The decision ultimately settled on patch 1.12, the last patch before the launch of The Burning Crusade, but that didn’t mean just loading it up and going.

It turns out that the classic code not only doesn’t like to play nice with modern video cards and anti-cheating software (because it’s more than a decade old) but has a lot of really inefficient ways of storing spell and ability data. So the developers have to also go through, piece by piece, to store everything in better formats and improve the experience across the board. Check out the full article to see the work going into making the classic experience work.

Source: Official Site; thanks to Cotic for the tip!
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zoward

My usual request applies: take the time to get it right. Late is late, but it’s very hard to overcome a crappy a lunch. Blizzard has the money to take their time and a history of doing so.

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Ittybumpkin

A lot of people in here do not understand the difference between professional quality software development and a group of people hacking together an emulated client in whatever way they can make it stand up. Blizzard is not attempting to just throw a lump of crap together and get it out the door as quick as possible. They want to make sure that they have quality code running on a stable environment.

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BDJ

Im glad they released some info. It gives me hope that they can fix some things while they are moving code over to the newer systems.

Face it. We aren’t getting a 1:1 experience, but they might as well fix some of the game breaking issues like certain gear not affecting DoTS (looking at you warlock and shadow gear) and implement some QoL changes (warlock soul shards not stacking) that don’t alter gameplay mechanics.

Targeter
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Targeter

The code breakdown they have was pretty neat. Also, cue the armchair developers: “Classic WoW isn’t hard, private servers do it all the time!”

Glad they’re making progress! This’ll be fun to play.

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neil shelton

normal emulator stuff that private people crank through in a few days or weeks but will take Blizzard 2 years.

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Denice J. Cook

Emus certainly don’t have the same kinds of anti-cheats/anti-hacks in place as Blizzard, nor do they secure accounts and personal info nearly as well. Not to mention that they’re frequently crashing balls of flame server-wise in comparison, too. To do things right is going to take more time, and I for one greatly prefer official servers to emus. Moreover, Blizzard never said it was going to take them two years.

๐™ณ๐š˜๐š๐šœ ๐š๐š˜๐š—'๐š ๐š”๐š—๐š˜๐š  ๐š’๐š'๐šœ ๐š—๐š˜๐š ๐š‹๐šŠ๐šŒ๐š˜๐š—.ยฎ
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๐™ณ๐š˜๐š๐šœ ๐š๐š˜๐š—'๐š ๐š”๐š—๐š˜๐š  ๐š’๐š'๐šœ ๐š—๐š˜๐š ๐š‹๐šŠ๐šŒ๐š˜๐š—.ยฎ

Plus its kind of a half-assed system on private servers. Devs on private servers have a lot of drama. Devs will play favorites and give their BFF’s the best gear “because they can” and a whole lot of other nonsense. ๐Ÿ‘ฟ Remember they’re sometimes just kids who start out doing it for fun and when it gets popular they become overwhelmed and the pressure cooker starts.

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BDJ

Yep. To the people who say it doesn’t happen ….

“โ€œSeveral senior GM staff noticed early on that logs containing proof of gold selling, gold buying, etc were being removed from the database after they had queried them previously. Also, there were several incidents where a gamemaster would ban a player and then a few days later the player would be unbanned and roaming Azeroth. These too did not go unnoticed and this contributed greatly to providing a solid path for our investigation to take. Finally, we were made aware by an abundance of players regarding a player getting his final Binding of the Windseeker without any record of him receiving it from a raid which led us to discovering that the item was spawned by this rogue staff member.”

๐™ณ๐š˜๐š๐šœ ๐š๐š˜๐š—'๐š ๐š”๐š—๐š˜๐š  ๐š’๐š'๐šœ ๐š—๐š˜๐š ๐š‹๐šŠ๐šŒ๐š˜๐š—.ยฎ
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๐™ณ๐š˜๐š๐šœ ๐š๐š˜๐š—'๐š ๐š”๐š—๐š˜๐š  ๐š’๐š'๐šœ ๐š—๐š˜๐š ๐š‹๐šŠ๐šŒ๐š˜๐š—.ยฎ

Just email those people who won those auctions and say “Hey remember that old server hardware? We uhhh kinda need it back.”:P
Then install the old server software and throw up the old client download. There.
Hahaha yeah wish it were.

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Michael18

From the dev blog post linked in the article:

… Major work needs to be done in this area to make the modern client compatible with the classic data. …

So they want to use today’s client… I have a hard time believing this approach will allow for a true patch 1.12 look and feel. At the very least it will break classic addons.

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Carebear

this is my fear too…. they also mention lua scripts too.. that mean that old macros wont work and possible many old addons will not work too! Will there be addons with auto-downrank? what the new client will allow and what not?

I am afraid that they will mess it up… new blizzard devs are not even capable of copy-paste… they could just let nostalrious do it instead…

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BDJ

You mean Nostalrius, the same servers that go down every 12 hours. The rubberbanding? The horribly re-scripted boss fights ? Or the gear handouts by the devs to their friends? No thank you. I’ll pass on that.

Targeter
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Targeter

They may just mean the ‘modern client’ is the Blizzard launcher. They’ll want to have a tab for it and allow you to launch just like normal WoW.

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BDJ

No. They mean the modern client. Their engine has probably changed a lot over the course of almost 15 years. They have changed the way they code almost everything.

Targeter
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Targeter

Yarp, you’re right. I think it’s the right move. Can’t wait to get my grubby shaman paws on it.

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BDJ

They never said they were going to make classic a 1:1 creation. Any sane person knew that they were not going to do patch cycles. Likewise the same people knew 1.12 would be the patch they used.

They will need to change a lot of things to make 1.12 have that classic experience. They will need to adjust / retune almost every dungeon and raid in the game. 1.12 trivialized everything pre-AQ40/Nax. They have to make FR gear mandatory on Rag. They have to have the runes you douse. They have to do a lot.

I wish people would get it. The classic “experience” doesn’t = 1:1 , bugs and all. It means the “feel” of the game. The dangers you feel riding into the burning steppes, or when you pull too many mobs during questing. Its about the difficulty of the game.

Its not about falling through the world in SM and having to Alt-F4, relog in, and find your body in the badlands.

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Carebear

I hope their modern graphics will not mess with vanilla dark nights or the heavy rain and fogs… or else i prefer the “old” graphics..

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Doubleplusgood

And I prefer the “old faces” can’t wait to get my original gnome female face back, poor thing has looked ugly for years now. And my dwarf female.

styopa
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styopa

Hmm.
It took them a year to determine the patch people wanted…is the patch all the “vanilla” private servers have been working around for literally years? Wtf?
Then they assert it doesn’t play well with modern video cards and stores data inefficiently. I call direct bs on the former (of the issues prevalent in the vanilla private servers, “it’s not working with my video card” doesn’t even tick the meters), and the latter is a canard: computers have gotten faster and storage cheaper by orders of magnitude. WoW vanilla runs on the proverbial toaster, and runs brilliantly.

One might almost suspect they were slow-boating this to keep people thinking it’s a serious project for, well, as long as they can.

kjempff
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kjempff

Hehe, it sure looks like they are doing all they can to make it more complicated than it has to be. Of course it is slightly more complicated than an emulator, but all those changes to the client sound unnessesary.

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Eamil

Changing how spell data is stored is a server-side change, so there’s probably something going on under the hood that emulators never had to worry about because they run on reverse-engineered server software to begin with, not the original server code out of the box. Also, computers are fucking weird, and don’t always just work nice and smooth when you expect them to.

From the sound of it they’re trying to get the old game running on the current server software which has a lot of work put into stability that players never notice because if they notice stability it’s because something broke. So it makes sense that not all of the old data would be compatible, and that it would have to be retooled.

I feel like people romanticize the hell out of private servers and forget that they provide an inferior experience in terms of scripted encounters, stability, and support, and people are only okay with that because they’re not paying for it.

styopa
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styopa

“…the current server software which has a lot of work put into stability that players never notice…”
Funny, I played WoW for 7 years. I don’t recall it being prone to being down, having rollbacks, or anything like that.

“I feel like people romanticize the hell out of private servers and forget that they provide an inferior experience in terms of scripted encounters, stability, and support, and people are only okay with that because theyโ€™re not paying for it.”
I feel that’s a gigantic strawman.
First, Blizz said “the dog ate our homework” that they didn’t have the code to run the older versions of the game. The idea that they didn’t keep the source code to each patch is logically and pragmatically so ridiculous it doesn’t even merit comment.
Now, the BLIZZARD coders – you know, the ones that wrote the game? – take a year to figure out how to get 1.12 limping along? There are at least 50 private servers running it at this moment, some who’ve upped the clients per shard limit to what, 10k+? What was that you were saying again about STABILITY? Of course they have less support, they can’t compare to that offered by a company taking in (conservatively) $6 BILLION PER YEAR; they daren’t even become too slightly successful, lest they merit the baleful legal cease’n’desist.
And yes, you’re not wrong that some scripted encounters are wonky…but then there are other people who have left WoW commercial because the whole bloody game has gotten so wonky generally.
Maybe if Blizzard wasn’t working so very hard not to produce a Classic server, they could see how many people would be willing to pay for it.

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Eamil

Thanks for proving my point. You assume that because private servers can provide a subpar experience with relatively little effort (never mind the time spent reverse-engineering the server code) it should be just as easy for Blizzard to do the same thing in a NOT subpar way.

Also, if you think vanilla had 100% lag-free uptime, you didn’t play vanilla.

styopa
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styopa

98% of server runs great, at 10x the pop limit.
2 % of game is wonky
(run by 6 guys from their garage)
= “subpar experience” …that Blizzard can’t even manage to match, much less exceed, even after a year of work.

Yes, your argument is BRILLIANT. Very persuasive.

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Eamil

And you clearly have a level head about all this and aren’t raging impotently at someone who really doesn’t have an emotional stake in this one way or the other. You’ve also clearly demonstrated that you are a master of computer engineering who knows exactly why a professional effort is different from a fan-run effort and how much extra work goes into guaranteeing a working product for paying customers.

styopa
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styopa

For someone with “no emotional stake”, you spend a great deal of effort to white-knight Blizzard?
The simple truth is that hundreds of private servers have run 1.12 for years – more than a decade – without any of the issues you postulate have Blizzard struggling.
Personally, that suggests disingenuity on their part. You cheerfully believe what they tell you, I find that charming, like someone who truly believes in Santa.

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Eamil

I’m just bored and like getting into dumb internet arguments.
They don’t get much dumber than someone shouting like a child over a post that mildly disagrees with their opinion. If you actually provide a compelling argument, I’m more than willing to change my mind.

The points I made in my original post that you don’t seem to be able to wrap your head around are:

-Vanilla private servers are running on reverse-engineered software, coded from scratch. Reverse-engineered software that was custom-built, and actively updated over the years, is a completely different beast from taking ten-year-old server software and running it with no changes.

-Making a vanilla server that carries forward the work they’ve put into security and stability since vanilla necessitates updating the old server code, or retrofitting the vanilla client to be compatible with the new server code. Either one of these would take time. The latter is what they say they’re doing, because it would be far less effort for reasons that should be obvious.

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Bruno Brito

The simple truth is that hundreds of private servers have run 1.12 for years โ€“ more than a decade โ€“ without any of the issues you postulate have Blizzard struggling.

It’s not the same thing, princess. They have to allow Bnet to work with it. They have to use the original game, and their original software.

And you need to go to a rehab if you think Pservers don’t have HUGE issues.

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BDJ

1. They aren’t using a half assed reverse engineered TBC client.
2. They are using bnet
3. They arent releasing a broken product, like every pserver since, well, forever.
4. I can kinda agree with the dis-ingenuity. Did anyone honestly feel like this would come out at the same time as BFA? They are fiscally responsible after all. They aren’t going to release and cannibalize their own playerbase. They are a business afterall. Im sure they could throw 100 people at it and have it done in a couple months. It would be totally idiotic from a business standpoint to do so.
5. Bro, you have to stop with this delusional “pservers dont have any issues” crap. Please. Its not a good look.

This is from Light Hope’s own Help and Support forum.

“We are aware of an issue causing some quest givers to stop interacting or reacting properly. This is being worked on and a fix should be deployed in the near future.”

“Donova Snowden, Winterspring, is one of the quest givers unable to have quest turned in, specifically [52] The Videra Elixer, [56] Threat of the Winterfall, [56] Mystery Goo, [56] Strange Sources. these are the only ones ive encountered in Winterspring that I cant turn in so far, quest givers in Everlook seem to be functioning atm.”

“update, [46] Ledger from Tanaris, Krinkle Goodsteel unable to be completed as well.

This one has been bugged for a long time and it may not be related to the current issue. Try dropping and retaking the quest – you won’t lose any items.”

“These two bad boys are bugged aswell.

Seereth Stonebreak – Barrens
Apothecary Lydon – Tarren Mill”

“Greetings,

Any update on the issues regarding AV turn in? I contacted a GM and was informed the issue was being worked on.

Teuff”

“No one sees my messages in pm and General chat, but their see in guilds and groups chat. It’s been 2 day

You were muted by a GM, you’ll need to open a GM ticket in-game to have it removed.”

“I usually maintain 140-200 fps at all times, although sometimes I only get like 50-60. When this happens, I’m usually able to return to normal fps after exiting and restarting the game. Although this is annoying and would be a nuisance on fresh.I’m not using vsync or any software to cap fps. I always have the same applications open, although I have tried launching with no other applications open and this issue still occurs at times. Even if I’m in an unpopulated zone, It doesn’t seem to make a difference.

Highly unlikely it’s a hardware issue as I have an i8700 / rx580 and do not experience fps issues in other games.

Make sure you are running the game in Windowed Mode (can use full screen windowed).

Also take note of any add-ons you may be using, some of them can really bog down the game at times, and others require you to reset the add-on often ingame to purge the data. These can cause issue with large FPS drops as well.”

“Several senior GM staff noticed early on that logs containing proof of gold selling, gold buying, etc were being removed from the database after they had queried them previously. Also, there were several incidents where a gamemaster would ban a player and then a few days later the player would be unbanned and roaming Azeroth. These too did not go unnoticed and this contributed greatly to providing a solid path for our investigation to take. Finally, we were made aware by an abundance of players regarding a player getting his final Binding of the Windseeker without any record of him receiving it from a raid which led us to discovering that the item was spawned by this rogue staff member.

Overall it was the combined effort of each and every staff member that let us get to the bottom of this situation. Going forward the GM staff will continue to track down all gold selling, gold buying, account sales, etc and look for any inconsistencies like we saw here.”

“The only case where a nerf is implemented is in Dire Maul: North, and it is only relevant to one encounter: King Gordok. Gordok currently has a custom teleport ability, which is designed to make it very difficult for hunters to simply kite and kill him. It is still possible, and I have seen a few hunters come up with some ways around it, but it is not straight forward. This mechanic is a remnant from Nostalrius, where it was originally implemented. While we try to achieve as Blizzlike an implementation as possible, and various other changes introduced during Elysium were removed, this still lingers.

Why? Because there are people on both sides with good arguments for and against removing it. On one hand, hunters were able to do it in retail. On the other, it was not as widespread and as known as it is now, and the huge amount of gold generated from it outdoes almost every other farming method in the game. Would Blizzard have changed it to prevent such a thing? We won’t know until Classic. In the meantime, this change will remain until further notice.”

https://forum.lightshope.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14224 : go through here and just read stuff they have had to fix. They are fixing these things still, even with this client you think is perfect.

Bro, I could go on and on and on. This shit about the 1.12 pservers being perfect without any issues holds no merit. The false spreading of this blatant lie needs to stop.

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Bruno Brito

98% of server runs great, at 10x the pop limit.
2 % of game is wonky
(run by 6 guys from their garage)
= โ€œsubpar experienceโ€ โ€ฆthat Blizzard canโ€™t even manage to match, much less exceed, even after a year of work.

This is a blatant lie. Nostalrius had EXTREME performance issues above 5k people, at 10k, you were being hit by mobs without seeing them. At 12k, you couldn’t see jack. Drawing distance was a huge problem in Nost, and the server died having this issue. It was the same for Elysium and now Light’s Hope.

And 2% is wonky? Are you high? You don’t know that it was this year that one of the pservers ( Kronos ) finally fixed the xp acquired through quests from levels 20+? Because they had TBC values in ALL VANILLA PSERVERS. The emulator for Vanilla is a backported TBC emulator.

Charging through the world. Blinking through the world. Wrong gathering nodes, or them spawning mostly Gold/Silver/Truesilver nodes than normal nodes. Terrible anticheat systems. Wonky LoS that makes pulling mobs awful.

Like a known PvPer in Nostalrius forums once said:

“Manatide doesn’t break at 5k people and magically fix itself at 3k.”

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BDJ

Are you high? You gotta be to right this post hahahahahaha. Just like Bruno Brito said below. I actually ended up quitting Nostalrius due to the extreme lag, disconnects, and wonky values they had on almost everything. I looted a level 12 sword (forgot the name) that had something like +25 strength. I also looted a wand that had +0 shadow damage lol. Yep , +0.

I wish people would stop with the hyberbole.

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Paragon Lost

Keep on fighting the good fight Eamil. Just remember that you’re basically tilting at windmills most of the time with some posters. :/

kjempff
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kjempff

They (Blizzard) are complicating things for themselves by wanting to fit this into the current live server infrastructure and code. It makes sense in some way I guess, but if you look at it without any prejudice or company policy glasses.. just from the point of, what is the shortest path to a classic server, then it seem that an emulator is the least complicated, faster and cheaper solution.
They could even hire “experts” (people who run emulators) today and launch in relatively short time.. I don’t buy that it is a monumental task to make a few workarounds so login servers/battle.net/whatever works, weed out the very few bugs those emulators have, and launch this thing.

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BDJ

Yea, lets have them take shortcuts. That always turns out well. lol.

You really don’t get it do you? People who run emulators aren’t shit. Almost every single one of them run the same damned reverse engineered client from like a decade ago. Their scripting of boss fights is HORRIBLE. The servers don’t stay up. There is constant rubber banding. Once you get REAL servers from blizz, you will see how awful pservers are in almost every aspect, because the guys doing it DONT KNOW SHIT.

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Bruno Brito

WoW vanilla runs on the proverbial toaster, and runs brilliantly.

I would say it’s more of a optimization thing. They want to make sure the old engine can be optimized to new computers. It makes no sense that i get Vanilla running better on a old notebook than on my gaming rig, and that happens.

styopa
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styopa

“It makes no sense that i get Vanilla running better on a old notebook than on my gaming rig, and that happens.”
Strawman.
Give me one single example where WoW vanilla 1.12 ran better on an old system than a new one.

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Bruno Brito

Some reddit comments for you:

This is actually very good news. Maybe the game will actually run well on high end pcs. I literally get the same fps on an 8700k that I did with a q6600 back in the day.

Not sure how it will be reverse engineered, they’re going to have to do a shit ton of balancing / rating / changes to itemization it they want an authentic experience. What I’m very happy with is they kept reinforcing the word authentic which means they don’t want to add any of the new bullshit from retail or even from wrath onwards.

Some people luck out with compatible hardware, some people don’t. I get a solid 60fps on private servers.

12-14 year old software IS going to have performance issues on newer machines. There’s no rebutting that.

And my favourite:

โ€œIt doesnโ€™t happen to me so itโ€™s not real!โ€

Can YOU prove me that a old software doesn’t have perfomance issues on newer machines?

If not, strawman.

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Michael18

I have the client in version 1.12.1 installed on my current system and never had a single issue. Also, all pserver are using the same, unchanged client, so I never have to install anything if I wanna check out a new pserver. Very convenient.

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BDJ

Lets get this out of the way up front. You really don’t know shit. Neither do I. No one here does. Are you trying to tell me you know more than blizzard? Do you HONESTLY think they are sitting on their hands doing nothing for the keks?

I guess Microsoft should have stuck with win98 and office 97 amirite?

Technology changes. Its not as simple as saying “dur here is 1.12 clientzz! just install and run blizzaards wtf!!???!!!??”.

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LusitanGaming .

So 1.12 makes all raid content trivial cause of all class changes. So exactly is the point of this server when the raid content is not a challenge.

Blizz is just taking the easiest way out of the hole they put themselves by announcing classic in a blizzcon that had nothing great announced.

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Bruno Brito

Whoever thought that Blizzard would go through the everliving hell of redoing everything from patch 1.1 is insane.

styopa
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styopa

No, those were people who liked to pretend they were clever by ‘insisting’ that “if you want Vanilla, you have to accept WoW 1.0 or you’re a hypocrite”.
In other words – you don’t want what you think you want.

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Bruno Brito

In other words โ€“ you donโ€™t want what you think you want.

Speak for yourself, i know what i want.