Camelot Unchained has briefly delayed its 4th of July beta launch because ‘the client crash rate is too damn high’

    
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Camelot Unchained has postponed its planned 4th of July beta launch in what Mark Jacobs is characterizing as a “short” delay.

“It’s not going to be a year delay or a three-month delay,” he told viewers on stream, reassuring them that he’s expecting it to be a matter of merely days or weeks. [Update: After the stream, Jacobs told Massively OP that he expects a clearer picture of how long the delay will be by Thursday.]

Over the weekend, studio reps said it was down to a list of 40 bugs it’s still crunching on; the company is asking existing backers to come help test this week. “The client crash rate is TOO DAMN HIGH!” is the mantra on today’s stream.

Longtime MMORPG fans will know that this delay follows several years of pre-beta testing. Last winter, City State Entertainment announced it had received a big cash investment and put the July 4th date on Camelot Unchained’s beta one. At the time, the beta was already three years late, as the studio struggled to find programmers, completely refactored large chunks of its ability system, and ultimately opened up a second studio in Seattle in order to make its RvR MMO vision a reality.

“The good news is, no matter what happens, whether we make beta one on Wednesday or we miss beta one on Wednesday, the version you get is going to be so much better than many other games have launched with in terms of stability, in terms of bugs,” Jacobs said Friday, stressing the importance of presenting a clean beta rather than “one that sucks.”

“We have no intention of launching beta one with the number of bugs that we had, […] and if we end of delaying, that will continue to be the focus. We have zero plans to add any scope.”

The stream is ongoing as of press time. [Update: Over now!]

With thanks to Hawkd!

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Schlag Sweetleaf

:)

cu too damn high.gif
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Mark Jacobs

Love it, thanks Schlag!

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George

Any news about the CU tech-licensing that I think has been mentioned in the last podcast? Who asked for it?

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Oleg Chebeneev

Star Citizen delayed. MoP users be like: “SCAM! Outrageous! Wont be ever released! RIP backers money. Chris WAS LYING!!”
CU delayed. MoP users: “Very good, delay = more polish. Delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad. Thank you Mark Jacobs for all you are doing!”

/chuckle

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yoh_sl

I think it’s a little apples and oranges.
While I am not as clear on Star Citizen, I have heard no end of shadiness surrounding how they do business, and treat their customers.
The overall sense I get from them, and apparently others are picking up on as well, is that they are not being entirely honest and open with us. I could be wrong, but that’s my general sense of the situation.

Where as that is very much not the case with Camelot Unchained.
MJ and co are very very transparent with their game, their goals, what they are working on at any particular moment, in excruciating detail. Warts and all.
When they screw up, they are going to let you know exactly how. And when things go south for whatever reason, you can trust that they are being honest. The key word there is ‘trust’.

So when things get delayed, we can trust that CU was delayed for an honest to goodness reason that was probably out of their control, where as evidently that is not the case with SC. It’s all to do with the atmosphere of trust and honestly that they have developed.

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Roger Melly

There is a bit of a difference between a slight delay for a beta and years of delays in alpha (especially when you consider in its original development timeline Star Citizen should have been released a couple of years ago ) .

I also don’t see Camelot Unchained selling ships or virtual goods for a game that is not yet released .

Camelot Unchained seem to very open about their business practices where as Star Citizen are not .

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Oleg Chebeneev

Camelot Unchained was in development AT LEAST as long as Star Citizen. They had teaser of the game 2012, so like 6 years ago. Except Star Citizen had playable alpha for years now while CU didnt even show any gameplay videos as of yet (I cant call gameplay video that battle crashtest where everything was placeholders).

tinnis_
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tinnis_

the CU kickstarted ender in May 2013 and development did not fully start until Autumn 2013.

camelot unchained entered pre alpha testing in autumn of 2014 https://www.pcgamer.com/camelot-unchained-pre-alpha-testing-goes-smoothly/

and alpha testing in march 2015 http://camelotunchained.com/v3/the-alpha-phase-of-camelot-unchained-has-begun

they have and will continue to have a non disclosure agreement until later on in beta 1 phase

furthermore CU only has a ~30 man development team and a fraction of the budget. the crowd funded portion of camelot unchained is still under 5 million. star citizen is 189 million.

in comparsion star citizen has multiple hundreds of developers working on it. [one year ago stated as 325+ people at 4 studios and unsure if that also includes further external contractors]

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Oleg Chebeneev

“On December 23, 2012, Mark Jacobs with City State Entertainment released the first teaser for the game which hinted at the premise a three faction PvP game”.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelot_Unchained

If they had teaser in 2012, they already started working on it back then even if it were design docs.

tinnis_
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tinnis_

woopdeedoo

i never said they designed it all from scratch in kickstarted but that does not equal “team developers working on it”

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Michael

Guess that is /thread

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Bior Boron

The teaser was almost entirely still images. They only had like, 2 employees back then. Get real man.

tinnis_
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tinnis_

and they literally showed a minute of raw unedited alpha gameplay yesterday on stream https://clips.twitch.tv/CovertRelentlessBibimbapThunBeast

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Bior Boron

If you are comparing CU to Star Citizen you must be extremely out of the loop.

They didn’t even have an engine, or an office with staff in 2012. The backers have been getting updates 2-3 times a week this entire time, with footage and access to information, because that’s how development under an NDA works.

All the same, CU hasn’t been selling people 1k space ships, and they allow people refunds for delays. Oh no, they missed their window by a week, now they’re apparently equivalent to Star Citizen? Good lord.

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Oleg Chebeneev

I didnt compare games in my original post. I compared MoP users reaction to delays in both games.

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Bior Boron

Why would the reactions be the same, at all? The two situations are basically nothing alike, so there’s nothing to gain by comparing the reactions and laughing about it.

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hamblepants

Oleg, for what it’s worth:

I think some of the hate for SC is because of the scope creep, and the slow(er than CU even) development, and for the business model that seems to be more well-developed and refined than anything else.

But Star Citizen gameplay vids look *awesome* – and there’s cool stuff you can do in game already, and it looks like it will get better and better (given enough time).

And Star Citizen is the biggest kid on the block, and sometimes people will just hate on something cause it’s big and successful. So that’s a big chunk of why they get hate too.

It’s a mix of both.

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Reht

The day Jacobs milks 100 million plus of dollars out of backers is the day that he deserves the Chris Robert’s treatment.

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Rhime

I know right? People are idiots…

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Michael

CU is not asking people to spend money on 28,000$ worth of space ships. It also does not have the budget of a Tripple A game like Star Citizen does at this point. It is also grounded in, you know, reality. Star Citizen is basically a giant scam at this point.

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Oleg Chebeneev

CU is also asking people for money, there is 425$ package on their site. So according to your brilliant logic, CU is giant scam also.

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Rodney Perry

Been a backer since kickstarter. I’m not going anywhere, I’m looking forward to this game but come on man can I get the game before my liver goes so I can give it a proper send off drinking and playing CU?

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Mark Jacobs

Hehe, well, if you’re a Beta 1 Backer, you can join us all week for gaming/testing. We ran the servers for 10 hours straight today.

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Rodney Perry

I’ll be there! I was just drunk texting didn’t expect a reply ???

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Dean Greenhoe

I can confirm that death mechanics work properly. Shooting for top rank! :)

A short delay is no problem for me. In fact I am glad you guys made this choice. You always say, choices matter, and this one really matters. For starters, to many people have no clue as to what “old school” beta entails. They are used to full game near completion beta tests. Second, early impressions make a huge difference. So…

CHOICES MATTER. This delay is a good choice.

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Mark Jacobs

Thanks Dean. Yeah, it was the right choice. I was hoping we wouldn’t have to make that choice but I can’t talk about honesty/transparency and then launch a half-assed Beta 1 and say that we are pleased with it.

Either way I knew we would take some heat, I would get some personal attacks, but I’d rather that happen then go into Beta just because I was afraid of the heat and having to lie. People will be happy if over the next couple of weeks they are having fun and then we announce Beta. If we had gone into Beta now, people would be angry and saying we should have delayed.

Xijit
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Xijit

I honestly think you are over stressing: you are not Chris Roberts, selling $20k concept art space ships & promising the world 3 days before canceling 2/3rds of your beta features and pushing your test date back 6 months … And then announcing a $30k concept art space ship in the same podcast.

… Shit happens & you are not hiding what the hang ups are / clearly want this beta shipped even more than the players do.

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Paragon Lost

Exactly. Well posted Xijit. :)

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yoh_sl

A delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad.
I think I can wait.

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Mark Jacobs

Thanks for the support. As I’ve been telling people, Beta 1 backers will get to play the game more in the next week/two weeks than they would have if there wasn’t a delay so nothing is lost. People were having a lot of fun today, and we’re just getting started.

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yoh_sl

Well, as long as people are having fun, that’s all that really matters.
Curiously, are players citing anything specific mechanic that they are having fun with?
(I haven’t been able to test CU in a long time, don’t know what’s changed)

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Mark Jacobs

A ton has changed, from the islands to combat. We’re still using an old castle model for our test scenario but that will soon be replaced by a destructable castle.

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Reht

Been a while since i checked in, looked good yesterday. Was very pleased with what i saw.

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Oleg Chebeneev

.

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yoh_sl

Maybe it’s because MJ is just so damn likable.

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Mark Jacobs

FYI, today we logged 66,371 player minutes during today’s testing and our largest battle was 210 people, no crashes, major lag, etc.

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BP Wolfe

I’ll take the delay. I have faith in this team unlike some other companies with 3 year “Early Access” to a broken game. Keep on truckin’, I’ll still be here.

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Mark Jacobs

Thanks BP. We’ll be here too. :)

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J

-yawn- Are we thereeee yet?

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Mark Jacobs

Soonish. :)

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hawks

Thanks for the Thanks Bree!! :) It’s a shame about the delay, but it’ll be a small delay i’m sure.

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Mark Jacobs

As of now we think we’ve found/fixed 80% of the main memory errors. So keep your fingers crossed for us.

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Mark Jacobs

This is the note from our Forums:

Folks,

   I’ll be writing up a full update on today’s delay, but the stream that Andrew and I did really said it all. We had two choices, announce a less-than-stable Beta 1 for Weds or be willing to wait a little longer for a better quality Beta 1. Even though we expect some refunds/anger over this, we did what we needed to do for all of our Backers and not put a label on a product just to say we accomplished a milestone, when in fact we did not. Other companies might be willing to do that, but we’re not. You deserve the best from us and this is the way to ensure that.

   To speed up the delivery from “Not a Beta” to Beta, we’ll be running daily tests of the game that will last all day during the week and one test on the weekend. By doing this we will be able to get the testing we needed and that we originally planned on in our January schedule. Unfortunately, we lost about the same amount of time due to GDPR and despite our best efforts, we could not make up the difference. We came close, but we are not where we wanted to be.

   That’s it, nothing more. I hope you enjoy the next couple of weeks or so (might be less) of all-day scenarios, open field fighting, sightseeing, and building in the Beta 1 build candidates. Expect lots of new versions but no new features, just bugs fixes.

  As always, we thank you for your patience and support.

Mark

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Sally Bowls

Why not just announce that the Beta is still on for July 4th, but you have decided to reschedule July 4th? :-)

A couple of weeks delay near launch could be distressing. A delay in beta is not preferable but I just don’t see many knowing or caring about Beta 1’s scheduled performance in a year or two. And the “OMG you were late” social media experts were going to flog that dead horse long before July 4th.

As a practical matter, you shall survive beta being late, I am less sanguine about your chances if you keep impacting your wife’s vacation. :-)

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Mark Jacobs

LOL, Lady J and I will take a vacation only after we’re in Beta 1 and we’ve gotten through the first 30 days. I have no idea where yet, but as I haven’t been on a real vacation in more than 2 years now, I could use it. :)