Ashes of Creation handles world persistence and local economies in its own fashion

With a rapidly expanding studio and Alpha One coming later this year, Ashes of Creation is shaping up to be one of the great hopes of the MMORPG industry these days. PCGamesN has a piece on the technical development of Ashes of Creation, in which the team talks about using Unreal Engine 4 to create the persistent massively multiplayer environment. Currently in Alpha Zero, 2,500 players are romping around in a 16×16 kilometer zone that offers limited progression. This is due to expand, however.

The team also discussed how Ashes will be similar to EVE Online in terms of its economy: “A similar aspect with regards to our economy is that we don’t have a global auction house. We don’t have a global warehouse for resources, so while you may be able to put your staff or your sword in your warehouse and grab it somewhere else, you can’t put iron ore [in there] and grab it somewhere else.”

The dev team recently posted a new video showing off some of the environments that future lucky Alpha One testers will enjoy. Might as well tantalize yourself by viewing it after the jump!

Source: PCGamesN
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23 Comments on "Ashes of Creation handles world persistence and local economies in its own fashion"

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MrNastyButler

Looking forward to the end result and hoping it’s fun to play.

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Korbenik

They just hired all the people that got fired from the sony failure that got sold to some company that doesn’t know how to make games. I’m sure they will be pushing a ton of great innovation. lul sarcasm good look game already been said to be way too bland, its just a kickstarter game at the end of the day maybe if they were selling alpha keys for 30 buck 250 is just rediculous for a cheap game

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Scott Johnson

It has now been announced that buying access to alpha 1 will be ending this month. So if you have interest in testing the game in Q4 you should sign up now before July ends. I have posted a link for the website.
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Sintu/

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Solo

I would like to know how the development team if using ue4 plans to fix the underlying problem with the engine. I have not seen a single game developed on unreal engine 1-2-3 or 4 that has more then 60 concurrent players not have massive performance issues.

Sure the game world looks great but what’s the point if you have 60 people in and area and all the sudden you can’t do anything with out lagging out, glitching , rubber banding all over hell.

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Solo

A custom netcode would probably be the only way it would work. I dont know what all that involves because im not a network engineer or a game developer but im sure its not easy and not cheap. Which is why I brought this up in the first place. Lag has been the grim reaper of mmorpgs since the dawn of 3d rendered games that have massive amount of people in localized areas . Which is why channels or instances were implemented to reduce the issue but not solve it. There are a few current games in development who promise to be resolving this issue either with custom netcode coupled with dynamic server management and written from the ground up game engines. Not saying they have solved it or will but have promised such.. ” Star Citizen, Dual Universe and Camelot Unchained ” all these games are still in devolupment so we shall see who succeeds and who fails.

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Ket Viliano

The approach is simple enough: do not use UE4 netcode, which is rather basic. Instead use custom netcode, and for that matter, stay off the public internet and use a private backbone built for low latency.

League of Legends had to build a custom private backbone WAN, that is how they fixed lag problems. The public internet routes on lowest cost, not lowest latency.

Also, design your gameplay to withstand WAN latencies. This will mean some changes to the typical twitch experience, but it can be done.

Further, do not go nuts with UE4 graphics, it is easy to bog down even high end computers with sloppy compute heavy code.

All of this is easy to say, and not so easy, and certainly not cheap, to do.

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Leiloni

4 is the new one that AFAIK doesn’t have any released MMO’s using it yet. There are smaller games but you can’t say that an MMORPG using it has performance issues because none of us knows that yet.

What I do know is 4 is supposed to be really different. One of the things I know has been touted by people is that they have access to the source code for UE4 and can totally customize it to their needs. So from what I understand, performance issues would be something a competent dev team could fix on their own during development, whereas past versions of Unreal Engine had limitations that they couldn’t fix.

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Ket Viliano

The source for UE 3 used to cost 800k, with a 200k per seat ( yes, per chair ) license. Oh, and 20% of the take… this is why Frostbite exists.

Now, it will set you back one whole email addy, 15-20 gig of drive space, and a monster graph card to run it on.

Fixing net code is not so easy to do, the latency issue is not going to go away as it is an artifact of physics, and the mass concurrency issue adds further complication.
It can be done, but is neither cheap, nor easy, and will come with some limitations.

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Leiloni

I’m not talking about UE3. I’m talking about UE4. Different engines. From all accounts it’s much different in a lot of ways, along with being easier to use. And from what I’ve seen Ashes say this is one of the reasons they’re using it – ease of use, along with it’s customization, speed of development it offers, performance, etc.

They talk about how the source code is provided so either it’s an affordable cost or part of the UE4 base package, I don’t know. I do know they’re using it and modifying it and are confident in their ability to do so. There are some nice quotes here on that part:

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Ashes_of_Creation#Unreal_Engine_4

Edit: Ok I bothered to spend 10 seconds researching and yes, they do provide the entire UE4 source code for free to everyone:
https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/faq

Does Epic really give everyone the entire C++ source code for UE4?
Yes. Access to full C++ source code for UE4 is included from the moment you create an account and install the engine. You can download source code from GitHub, and you will continue to receive regular updates, including access to live source code changes. Even if you don’t plan to modify the source, it’s super-useful to have it available to understand and debug interactions between your C++ code and the engine’s C++ code!

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Ket Viliano

I brought up UE3 as a cost comparison to UE4, not to criticize you. Please do not take it that way.

If I recall, there are a few sub components of UE4 that are proprietary, for which source code is not available, but can be substituted if needed. By recollection, these include the sound system, and the NVIDIA GPU PhysX, code, with the PhysX CPU code being available.

These nits only matter if you pick at them.

Doh, forgot the Maya art asset pipeline. Anyway, the Epic code for UE4 is available, but not the proprietary code around it.

Peace

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Dread Quixadhal

Part of the reason EVE-Online’s model works is that there’s no magic teleportation of goods. You mine some veldspar, you dock at a station and put it up for sale, it’s for sale there, physically AT that station. If anyone buys it, they have to fly to the station and pick it up.

Because the markets are regional, not global, this creates an actual need for cargo ships, and a way for players to make money by taking the risk of buying goods in one region and then flying them to another region where the prices are higher. While it’s in your cargo, it’s your product… you can be attacked and it can be stolen. The price in your destination could tank before you get there. You might even decide to just keep it for yourself.

But in later years, they added a very flexible contract system to their game’s market, so you can literally design an agreement saying “Transport 10,000 veldspar from here to there, within 2 days, in exchange for 200,000 ISK above cost and some T2 mining crystals.” — and you’d set the deposit at just over the value of your goods, so if they get blown up or steal it, you get paid… but if they do the job, they get back that agreed to amount and the other goods.

If Ashes of Creation does half as good in that particular aspect, it’ll be an amazing game, at least for crafters and traders. :)

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Brother Maynard

Intrepid mentioned this a couple of times – there will be no magical server-wide auction houses or anything like that.

Your economy will start as strictly local and players will have to work on making resources and produced goods available beyond their communities (via caravans and such stuff).

There is actually supposed to be an economy-oriented specialisation of a metropolis available to the players once they progress through all the node stages, which will allow you to build larger and more efficient trade networks and economy system (but still respecting the ‘no magical trading’ limitation).

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Sorenthaz

Yeah that’s what makes the node system sound very interesting, and it’ll be neat to see what variety there is to it.

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Thomas Zervogiannis

Another important differentiation is the existence of multiple servers in Ashes of Creation vs single shard (well, two shards if we want to be pedantic) in EVE online. This will also affect the economy/PvP dynamics a lot.

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Leiloni

Because the markets are regional, not global, this creates an actual need for cargo ships, and a way for players to make money by taking the risk of buying goods in one region and then flying them to another region where the prices are higher

From what I understand, the caravan system is going to work like this and since it’s a PvP thing you also run the risk of getting attacked. But it’s a core point of the system. I don’t think they have a contract system, though.

Alyn
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Alyn

Videos look good. There’s a long journey yet for this mmo. I shall watch this one, however I am not quite sold completely on the concept set forth by Mr. Sharif. We shall see and possibly in a year or so I may come around.

Blinkenn
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Kickstarter Donor
Blinkenn

I didn’t back the kickstarter but that environment video looked pretty dam good. I got a Morrowind/Oblivion vibe from some parts and even an Innothule Swamp and SolB vibe from the short teases of swamp and lava area

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Oleg Chebeneev

The persistance with which they release those environment showcase videos makes me suspicious they think their graphics and world is amazing.

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Leiloni

I think they’re amazing…

Solaris
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Solaris

I agree vehemently!

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Oleg Chebeneev

Compared to 15 years old games maybe. Compared to modern games – ofc not.

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Matthäus Wey

So far it really looks meh IMO. The shaders are nice so far but overall its a real lacklustre.

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Robert Mann

AKA, there’s reason for people to go off and trade things in different areas. Which certainly some won’t like… but then again that’s why not everyone needs to be doing everything. Some people may not like that idea either. Great news, if that is you. You have dozens of MMOs already running for you!