Ashes of Creation’s subreddit has been taken over by Intrepid Studios

    
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But we should really not let these guys off the hook for talking big.

Concern and alarm has been raised among the Ashes of Creation community this past week as four members of Intrepid Studios, including CEO Steven Sharif, were granted moderation privileges for the AoC subreddit.

While not unheard of for a studio to be in control of a community subreddit, the potential conflict of interest usually prevents devs from moderating their own game’s community sites. What is far more usual, and what the Ashes of Creation community is now calling for, is that the developers be given special “flair” or tags on the subreddit but stripped of their moderation privileges. With the devs in charge, there is worry that censorship and shameless self-promotion will run rampant.

Steven Sharif addressed the situation with this post: “Yesterday, the owner of this sub Julius messaged me on Discord and offered to return the sub to our control in the hopes of giving the sub to a mod team that had the time to dedicate the tender love and care the sub deserved. I accepted, and will be including the volunteer mod team from the Ashes Discord in the moderation of this sub. With that, I will also become more active on the sub from a discussion standpoint and perhaps schedule an AMA as well.”

Source: Reddit. Thanks Bob!

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hamblepants
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hamblepants

Someone’s already posted this here but I’ll say it again:

The mods for that subreddit gave mod powers to the devs – anyone who doesn’t like it is absolutely free and encouraged to make unofficial subreddits for the game.

If the devs start censoring the crap out of anything critical of the game or studio, that’s probably bad and I’d leave that sub. But (mostly) anyone who stays posting in it is probably ok with that going on.

MistyEyes
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MistyEyes

The Ashes subreddit mods have preemptively been accused of censorship just by assuming the position as mods. They left the thread of equally questionable validity made by Tinnis_ against them alone as well. They’re abstaining and letting both sides engage in a healthy discussion to vent out their feelings right now. Nothing overtly toxic has been left up on their sub.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

This post has been moved from the TDG thread to the relevant thread here.

“The Ashes subreddit mods have preemptively been accused of censorship just by assuming the position as mods” is not accurate in regard to our article. We didn’t accuse them of that.

The thread titles and fake brigading accounts themselves are toxic and make good on the threat that the original troll was banned for – it was intentionally and literally toxic.

Edit: This subthread is being closed because some folks just can’t stop trolling and sniping. Please refer to the commenting code – complaining about moderation is not welcome. If you have something of value to say about the actual article topic, feel free to start a new thread.

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Leiloni

The point of Reddit in these communities is for them to be fan run and without developer moderation or interference. They have their own forums for official communications and controlling the message, but fans need a place that’s all their own. The sub needs to go back to that. Tinnis’s suggestions in various Redddit posts and comments are all that the sub needs – find new, active mods, get rid of the AoC developer mods, and it’ll be back in a good place.

On a side note, the one time I tried to post a legitimate concern for discussion on their forums I had to post in a “Help” forum just to get my thread to show up due to an over-zealous spam bot, and my reply to comments in my thread also required me to go to the Help forum and ask a mod to fix it again. Not exactly an experience that makes a person want to go back.

Celestia
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Celestia

If they want a company run forum, then pay to host and moderate it.

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agemyth ?

If players are allowed to moderate their own unofficial subreddits, I don’t really see the problem with companies controlling the r/gamename of their own games. There is probably more activity there than on most official game forums.

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Leiloni

Well this sub used to be fan run, that’s the point…

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Sorenthaz

It was run by someone who basically didn’t give a care about the community or building up a proper mod team. So he took the lazy route in handing it over to Intrepid.

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Leiloni

Which is why new, fan mods would be better. There are tons of fans out there and I’m sure many who would love to run the subreddit. There’s no reason for Intrepid to step in.

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agemyth ?

Yeah, I’ve never been big on Reddit, and I think I may feel differently if I had cared about the site before it got as popular as it is.

It makes sense to me that companies want to have some control over one of the biggest discussion boards for their games even if that is just trying to keep things on-topic and dissuade shitposting. It reflects poorly on the game if things are out of control there.

r/AshesofCreationUnofficial or whatever should be a thing, but it should be clear that it is run by a few community members because I don’t think that is clear with many unofficial subreddits.

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Leiloni

Well Reddit as a site in general is made up of fan run communities and it’s seen as in poor taste to have official company run subreddits. Much of the point of Reddit is for people to have a place to speak freely on various topics.

Official forums are the place for game companies to have their official community space that they can control. Reddit is and always will be a fansite type community.

Ashes and any other gaming company should not be running their own subreddit. It completely defeats the purpose of it. If they think their reddit reflects poorly on the game, then perhaps they need to address their fan’s concerns. In my experience none of the gaming subreddits I’ve participated in have been anything but a reflection of the community a company fosters themselves and the games they create. If it looks bad, it’s Intrepid’s fault, not the fans, because people are only discussing and reflecting on what they get from the gaming company.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

FYI, the guy who was screaming “fake news,” attacking our staff, and threatening to “blast me” by posting his diatribe on Reddit if we deleted it has been banned for violating multiple clearly posted commenting rules he apparently thought he didn’t have to follow, which is ironic since he’s down deeper in the comments ruleslawyering for Reddit.

Sharif himself addressed the Reddit mod issue, as we quoted in our article, which is confirmation enough that this is a real issue and not “fake news,” regardless of whether fans on some Discord happen to think it’s newsworthy. If you guys want to fight each other over who has the biggest indie MMO you-know-what, fine, but be honest about who you are and which faction you represent – all of you – and don’t you dare presume to come in here and threaten me.

tinnis_
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tinnis_

thanks. its never been about the games or the developers themselves on any personal or professional level.

but many of the “fans” really dont see that and love to divert the discussion…

purely a matter about reddit and the spirit of the platform.

MistyEyes
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MistyEyes

Hey Bree, there seems to be a growing concern in the Ashes community about ongoing censorship occurring in this comment section and on the subreddit /MMORPG/. You’re actively giving the reddit moderator tinnis_ from a competing game a platform with this article and comment section, yet you’ve robbed people from our community of their voice and platform. Isn’t this a narrative manipulation? Especially since tinnis_ theoretically has power to exert censorship with being a moderator on Reddit? As a side note, the community members post seems to show there wasn’t any attacks on your staff, that’s a really serious allegation in the current gaming news climate.

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Leiloni

Tinnis is following AoC like many of us are and has just as much of a right as you do to opinions on how the sub should be run. Just because you don’t agree with it, that doesn’t mean you should be running around Reddit and Massively whining about it.

Some of us – as in more than just Tinnis – think the AoC sub needs to be fan run. If you have issues with that, take it up with us, because whatever Bree and r/MMORPG are or aren’t doing with their moderation powers doesn’t change the fact that Tinnis’s posts do represent a number of fans viewpoints.

MistyEyes
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MistyEyes

Pardon? I’m not calling for censorship on any level, in fact I’m concerned and inquiring about it. You’re right. Tinnis_ has the right to an opinion, yet facts are actively being censored that counter his opinion. Don’t those fans deserve a voice as well?

Especially when they are active members of our community and speak on our behalf a lot more accurately then a guy whose been caught saying his interest in Ashes and this issue is fleeting at best? His post history only reinforces this statement when you see it’s 90% excited posts about crowfall and camelot unchained with only a handful of posts about ashes, all of which are negative. You’re free to want a fan sub, but I’m telling you right now out of the 4k+ active people on our Discord, almost all are completely indifferent or supportive of Intrepid like is being stated here.

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Sorenthaz

Not to mention Tinnis_ is the creator of the fire alarm thread that this MOP article is referencing. If he really didn’t care to start drama or whatnot then he wouldn’t have gone to great lengths to go “OMG CENSORSHIP HAS STARTED” and trying to create a big scare over it.

He can claim what he wants people to think his intentions are (“spirit of the platform” or whatever), but he managed to give the game a burst of negative press/drama out of his thread and it’s clear where his biases are.

The other conspiratorial guy who got banned off of here and is making a fuss on Reddit was basically just doing the same exact thing tinnis_ did, except the targets were different.

tinnis_
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tinnis_

oh and /r/mmorpg has automod rules you are being triggered against based on post title, content or format.

or they have a minimum account age or karma threshold to post a thread as the person is using an account they only just made.

this is a common subreddit moderation practise in order to keep spam or low effort content in check without manual intervention or constant babysitting.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

The guy was banned very specifically for breaking our rules. When he tries to post, his posts are getting auto-suppressed. He threatened to harass us using Reddit, and that’s exactly what he’s doing – and that’s a really serious thing in the current gaming news climate. I’ve been harassed for the last TWO WEEKS by turds from Reddit, and I’ll be damned if I continue it this week.

You all are more than welcome to discuss the claims Tinnis and anybody else made and whether it’s appropriate and normal for devs to mod their own subs. You’re not welcome to break our rules, whine about moderation, flamebait, or hassle the staff.

We have nothing to do with the MMORPG sub so take that up with them, but I assume they have rules about inflammatory posts too.

MistyEyes
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MistyEyes

This is false though Bree. Greypelt was actively upvoting and discussing with NerfHerder immediately after he made his original posts on here. Tinnis_’s comments towards nerfherder happened mere minutes after his original posts. Please don’t try and cover this up with false reports of “caught in auto-spam”.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

You seem to be misunderstanding what I’m saying (and being super rude about it to boot). I banned him for his initial posts. His subsequent escalating post wasn’t a victim of “auto-spam” and nobody said it was. It was directly blocked/suppressed by the system because that’s what banned means.

tinnis_
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tinnis_

i have nothing to hide nerfherder, but please keep trying to divert the issue.

also those are redditors, talking about reddit and mmorpgs.

where was the official post of the mod change? oh right: there wasn’t one.

all i asked for was clarity, which we are still waiting on as the single small comment reply did not go into detail about if this is a stop gap or not.

also you are only pointing out that i mod two mmorpgs that compete with each other far more directly with each other than they do with AoC in both release date and focus. and i know about reddit moderation and its capacity for censorship.

this is not a holy war between games.

i would be asking the same questions if mark jacobs or j todd coleman were suddenly head moderators of their subreddits with zero dialogue.

Godnaz
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Godnaz

So many people with Reddit moderator and scripting experience offered to assist the owner of that sub in creating a well designed, moderated, creative and friendly environment.

He declined them all… Now this.

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Sorenthaz

Eh, if Steve keeps to his word then no one will give a care about this in another month. This is kind of needlessly creating mountains out of molehills, but I get that AoC is a divisive game and stuff like this grabs attention.

hamblepants
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hamblepants

Too soon to say whether this is a bad thing. If they go the way of “shut down anything that might make them look bad, no matter how true it is,” then that’s probably bad news.

If they just keep out the absolute crap that people will come there to post, then that’s a good thing.

Simple as that.

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Sana Tan

Heh, reminds me of SWTOR’s reddit, which is controlled by these “influencers” a.k.a EA’s paid lackeys.