Saga of Lucimia’s epic quests will take ‘time, effort, and teamwork’ to finish

    
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What defines an epic adventure? This is the burning question that Saga of Lucimia is tackling this week, starting with the derisive analysis of current MMO questing as “grocery runs.”

Instead, the dev team has looked to larger adventures for inspiration, including the ring and shawls quests from EverQuest and the quest to destroy the One Ring in Lord of the Rings. This is the kind of scope and involvement that Saga of Lucimia is striving to attain.

“You’ll have your major quests that require you to form a group or be in a guild to complete. The ‘destroy the One Ring’ type of adventures and campaigns,” the team wrote. “And along the way you’ll branch off from time to time and work on side quests and adventures with other people who aren’t part of your main group […] But at the end of the day, the campaigns and adventures that we want players to explore in our world are those which require time, effort, and teamwork to complete.”

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camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

I’ve always felt ‘quests’, actual quests as per the Oxford dictionary definition (a long and arduous search for something), should be tied to character creation.

When you make your character, you choose the quest you want your character to embark on.
Whether it is a fighter who seeks to own her own mercenary company, a mage who wants to be immortal, a cleric who wishes to touch the face of his goddess and survive, or so on. GW2 paid lip service to this concept but it was very flat.

That MAIN quest should follow the character throughout the storyline and I’d say it would have failure conditions. Not every holy man who dons a mantle and swings an aspergillium gets to see his diety. Perhaps the paladin fails to uphold his faiths tenants and is kicked from the paladins club.

Combined with this is the ability to seek a new quest upon failure of ones main quest. Disgraced as a paladin, the now fighter seeks to find redemption, the mage who sought immortality is now a sentient undead, immortal but so not what they wanted.

I suspect its harder to do but not impossible.

Eastern mmo companies have proven that making mmos isn’t difficult as long as you just want a rat killing simulator. It’s time for mmos as a genre to move past ‘Can we make an mmo?’ to ‘Can we make one that is a living world?’

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Tim Anderson

Living world is the only way to develop in our opinion. That’s one of the reasons we’re so heavily focused on GM events and live quests + an evolving world, as opposed to static quests (we don’t have quest hubs).

Polyanna
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Polyanna

This all sounds great on paper.

Then a couple months in the population craters and “epic questing” means logging in and sitting around town for three hours spamming zone chat trying to find people to teamwork with.

That’s not to say that group content is bad. It’s the bread and butter of WoW’s entire endgame, which certainly works. But it takes a special kind of game to maintain the large and thriving population that you need to pull that off.

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bill bunny

Finding a group will be the tough part for this game it seems, since it will be niche…. I will probably bring my own group in that I’ve been gaming for years with and play with them…

I wonder if having an official discord for the game where people can meet and find groups and then join chat rooms with them, would be a good way to go….? You could build looking for group into the game but with discord you have everyone laid out in a format that’s easy to understand and you have several chat rooms for voice chat…..unless y’all planning on adding voice chat to the game which would be awesome….

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Tim Anderson

There’s no reason to waste engineering hours on voice chat when solutions like Discord already exist. We already fully support Discord, and have official grouping channels set up for folks to use, along with all of our normal chatter channels and the like.

On top of that, people can obviously form up on their own for guilds and the like and their own static groups, just as they have always done in every MMORPG back to the creation of the genre :)

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bill bunny

Right on…..discord works great for me!

I Did think it would be cool to eventually have nearby voice chat in an rpgmmo…. people could do alot of groovy things with role playing their characters if they could speak as them in the environment where others around could also participate.

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Tim Anderson

It’s great in theory; the man-hours required = there’s a reason you haven’t seen it even in AAA MMORPGs to-date.

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bill bunny

Fair enough…can’t wait for the game…

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Tim Anderson

Us too =P

And we’ve had probably 10-12 conversations around proximity-based voice-chat internally, just as an FYI, and we keep coming back to “it’s just too much of a pain in the ass to do properly”.

Because we love it from a roleplay perspective as well.

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John Kiser

It is far to complicated to do right largely because if you don’t have someone or some method to police it it easily becomes a massive thing used by trolls/griefers to cause issues more than anything. Ultimately there is no “good way” to develop a way to fix that sort of scenario that doesn’t involve constantly recording all voice chat and listening to dialogue when a report comes in. Ultimately it’s just a logistical nightmare to sort of police in any meaningful way. Why a good RP guild will setup voice channels specifically for that and invite would be rp’ers in the wild to it OOC.,

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Oleg Chebeneev

If they are taking epic quest in LoTRO as an example those “epic quests” most likely will be a bunch of “kill x”, “gather x” quests chained together. Witcher 3 main quest is what Id rather see MMO devs take as an example.

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Brown Jenkin

I mean, I hear ya on one hand… but on the other, is there anything to write home about there either? Like if there were some big Witcher 3 style storyline in an MMO, it’d make just as little sense as any other single player RPG story (running through the same exact story as hundreds of thousands of other players all while remaining the magic chosen one). At the same time, its hard to make things like that challenging or deep in the golden age of walkthroughs. If nothing else at least LotRO’s epic quests had a really neat story.

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Tim Anderson

A handful of our team plays LOTRO regularly. We criticize the hell out of the quest hubs and try to only ever stick to the Book quests. While there is still some element of fetch/kill/repeat, the storyline more than makes up for it.

The main storyline that follows the Volume I novel will mirror the LOTRO book quests (and to a lesser degree, the storyline quests in FFXIV) in that they are heavy on the lore and light on the rinse/repeat elements, while the rest of our quests will be akin to the Heritage/Epic quests in EQ2.

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Schlag Sweetleaf

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time effort teamwork.gif
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peor togs

Looking forward to this

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Tim Anderson

So are we =P

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Randy Savage

Time, effort, and teamwork? It’s 2018, not 1998

rafterman74
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rafterman74

WoW has 15,000 quests and you can count on on both hands how many of them are memorable. I’m not saying all quests should require guilds or large groups of people but the Epic quests in EQ were better than anything I’ve done in the majority of MMOs I’ve played. The only other quests that come close or have the same feel were the Epic and Heritage quests of EQ2 or Vanguard.

It’s about time that MMOs stopped with this treadmill of thousands of quests to level. They’re tedious and I wouldn’t trust [insert favorite writer here] to be able to make even 1/100th of them worth reading or paying attention to. We need less, more substantial quests.

Basically, the genre needs a little more 1998 and a lot less 2018.

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Brown Jenkin

The trouble is that you can’t roll back time. Nothing is going to make today’s MMOs into the games of 1998 since the world is different now. Mystery only exists when players force it (which can be a great thing, see TSW) unless/until developers find some path other than the scripted narrative quest this isn’t going to get better.

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bill bunny

Not everyone uses spoiler sites….you don’t need to turn back time to realize that modern MMOs are trash cans that hand you everything on a platter and now basically cater to solo play because people gave cried enough about missing out….it’s refreshing to see an mmo give players a challenge…not all of us want mindless carebear content we can grind through solo with no issues, or having to communicate with other players…some of us actually like MMOs not some warped idea of what we think they should be…..

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Tim Anderson

^^ This :) @rafterman74

We’re looking heavily at the Epic + Heritage quests of EQ2, as well as the LOTRO Book quests as our primary two focus points (along with EQ1 Ring/Shawl/Epic weapon quests).

rafterman74
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rafterman74

I’m excited to see where you guys take this. It’s refreshing to see someone, anyone, not copy the tired post WoW trends.

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Tim Anderson

There’s already a million carbon-copy games out there. No need to repeat!

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squid

the Epic quests in EQ were better than anything

They weren’t, though. For most classes they were just days/weeks/months of farming super rare drops or fighting a bunch of other players to get a kill or turn-in on a mob that only spawned once a week. Do you think anyone these days really wants to camp Ragefire?

rafterman74
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rafterman74

I think hunting down a rare or killing a dragon is infinitely more enjoyable, and memorable, than collecting 50 boar asses. People sit in WoW and farm faction for months on end to get new mounts or transmog armor, you don’t think they’d do an extensive questline that takes them all over Azeroth to end up with an Epic weapon?

I still remember my Spear of Fate quest. There were solo parts, group parts, and even a raid. It was much more than camping rare mobs. There was story and adventure as well. When it was all said and done I had actually completed a quest and it was awesome. And then helping other people in my guild get their epic was just as much fun. It was the very definition of the word quest, and camren_rooke is right, todays “quests” aren’t really quests at all.

Quests aren’t supposed to be easy, or short.

“a long or arduous search for something.”

‘a long search for something that is difficult to find’

“a long search for something that is difficult to find, or an attempt to achieve something difficult”

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Tim Anderson

This x100% :) ^ @rafterman74

camren_rooke
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camren_rooke

Well they aren’t really ‘quests’ are they? More like busy work.

I mean walking across town to deliver a loaf of bread isn’t a quest. It’s a chore.

Delivering a message to one npc who sits ten feet from the npc who gave you the message is a domestic squabble.

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Tim Anderson

We have an entire episode dedicated to “milk runs” lol: https://sagaoflucimia.com/mondays-in-mmorpgs-the-milk-run/

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Tim Anderson

Cheers, Thomas!

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John Kiser

Ohh god don’t get me started on that crap lol. If the npcs are within yelling distance of one another it is ridiculous.

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Tim Anderson

Beyond ridiculous. “I’m too lazy to walk more than 5 meters so go do this for me”.

Ugh.