Worlds Adrift is launching PvE servers today – if the griefing put you off, give it another look

    
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Worlds Adrift is laying New Foundations today – literally, as that’s the name of its 27th update. The downside with this update is that it includes a wipe and character reset (yes, it’s still an early access). The upside, however, is that bard-inclined toons are going to be able to rock out with new playable guitars, and there’s a brand-new starting zone and tutorial for newbies – plus new drifting tools, better cooking, wall-walking, new gear, ship deco, more booze, and island turrets.

The PvE server, however, is probably the biggest addition for more traditional MMORPG fans. Gamers will recall that the game launched with a PvP ruleset that engendered rampant griefing, so much that even one of our resident PvP sandbox fans was concerned about the game’s longevity. At the launch of the early access, Bossa suggested that a PvE server was both technically infeasible as well as unwelcome and that players simply needed to “git gud.”

“A PvE-version of Worlds Adrift would be a betrayal of its core pillars as a lot of artificialities would have to be implemented for this to work, and these would undermine its very nature,” the studio told us back then. Obviously, Bossa has changed its mind.

Check out the new trailer – seriously, it’s amusing – and then get ready!

Source: YouTube
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aeden

For the curious, the Marauders are not an enemy faction as the article implies, it is a new class of treasure cache. You need a Marauder compass to point the way and find them.

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Ken Mitchell

THANK YOU for headline – that got my attention. The grief was exactly why I stopped playing the game.

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neil shelton

Money will make you betray your core ideals heh.

MrEllis
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MrEllis

Sandbox games always seem to implode because of the PvP reliance then they bait PvE so the PvPers have someone to fight. The PvE folks don’t tolerate greifing and begin to leave so they tilt towards PvE and any mention of that enrages the PvP crowd. The PvP crowd becomes vocal, regardless of their actual size/worth and it becomes a shitshow ending before release with “We really put our hearts into this…”

I guess it’s less coding if there is little or no AI. Games like this are light on lore, it’s just a setting so at least they’re not pumping massive amounts into lore and assets that support it. There is obviously money to be had in PvP but most folks prefer a twitch based game for that. I don’t know, people seem fixated on making the ULTIMATE SANDBOX which means it must include PvP. So far I’ve enjoyed the co-op survival elements much more than the awkward PvP in just about any of the dozens sandbox games I’ve played.

Games like this make me fear for New World. They seem to be dumping a lot into the lore and world building…

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Jeff Lewis

Oh nice! Was waiting for the pve servers! Will probably pick this up now. Been watching it for the last few months and it’s been hovering around 150 people online and peaking at 300ish. Looks like right now it’s at almost 800. People don’t always like to deal with some random peoples crap. Hell, I jumped into a game today called CardLife and was jumped by someone while I was literally on the second step of the tutorial…like wtf?

April-Rain
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April-Rain

I was in early access but never committed to buying the game as I knew PvE was not there and it would turn into a gankfest.

The dev’s with there hardline PvP stance, sort of damaged any goodwill I had for Bossa or the game.

While good news for anyone interested I no longer have any interest but I hope it improves the player base for them.

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Daniel Miller

I remember when this game eas early access and pve players disliked pvpers. Dev said pvp, get ganked, or walk away.

Oh my how they have done a 180 like battlefield v.

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Arktouros

How to mismanage your game in one easy step.

The PvP focused players will just go play one of any number of other games catering to them currently. Splitting what is easily already a minor population in a game is already a poor move and just going to leave people looking for alternatives. It’s been an interesting round of “Shoe is on the other foot” reading all the PvE player complaints about these games and them having an impact on the game. Reminds me of the opposite scenario back when all the PvE games were getting made and us PvP players were trying to get our own PvP changes made as well.

The PvE focused players are a fickle lot that will consume your content like locusts and then go back to their regular games. As the game really only has exploration elements, people will build a basic ship, fail at crossing walls, and then realize running around empty islands isn’t very compelling as a game and quit too. The PvE players who already cried and left or refused to take part in the first place are equally unforgiving as the comments here will tell you.

What a waste of time and development effort.

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Nathan Aldana

except, that leads to a problem even if pve players werent around.

What, exactly, do new pvp games offer to keep people around that other pvp games dont already have?

shit, exactly how do you convince new players to keep at a game when older players both have a gear and knowledge advantage that allows them to utterly ruin the experience for the other player?

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Arktouros

As a PvP player the big problems you run into with most existing and past PvP games is they are terrible games. I mean you look back at games like Shadowbane or Darkfall and see a FFA PvP game that collapsed but as someone with experience the why those games collapsed is pretty big. For example Shadowbane had a rampant hacking problem where players could get access to Admin controls in game. In case of Darkfall you end up with a lot of similar issues with exploiting broken game content and developers unable to keep ahead of it (mostly because they held back a lot of game content to prevent beta testers from getting a head start advantage).

However bad game design also plays into as well. Albion is a recent example of a game that had a lot of promise but mismanaged a lot of factors and ignored key feedback when it came to their game. A lack of interesting combat (it was some sort of shitty MOBA style combat to appeal to mobile gaming crowd) as well as a poor progression system (too much power difference in levels of gear) discourages players recovering/starting over creating a bad haves/haves nots scenario. These systems are critical to get right in a game where you can lose things and it’s a big source of where developers mess up. This specifically addresses your question where if the system is wrong and players can’t get into it and can’t recover then they end up leaving because they can’t recover or get started.

In PvP games this has a sort of snowball effect. As players are the game content as more players leave due to exploit issues or bad game design issues this reduces the amount of people around and in turn reduces the amount of dynamic content that occur. Less people leads to more stagnation and then less people.

Serrenity
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Serrenity

You say “PvE players are a fickle lot…” As if PvP players are any different or better. They are just as fickle with the added benefit of a not insubstantial portion of them being sociopaths in games who kill players over and over who can’t possibly complete, then get upset when those gankable players go somewhere else.

It’s also fuzzy logic to assume that you are somehow stealing people from PvP serverset because the people who go to the PVE server set are doing so for. A. Reason. They were never going to sit there and let some psychopath repeatedly kill them and ruin the game experience just because.

As for the locust comment, there are a significant portion of PvE player who are content locusts, but there’s also a growing movement for virtual world games where content is more in the systems of the game world interacting in fun and interesting ways at all levels than curated theme parks.

This is not to say that our ‘group’ of players is better than the other – rather the opposite. They both have worts, and painting the PvP crowd as this saintly group and the PvE crowd as locusts who consume without enjoyment is disingenuous.

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Arktouros

See, here’s the thing. We have historical proof at this point of how PvE players go with games because basically from 2004 till around 2016 almost every single game was exclusively catered towards PvE players and the PvE experience. Without fail they play these games for a while and then go back to their main game once they’re done. It’s happened time after time again and it’s why new PvE MMOs aren’t really being designed anymore. By contrast the number of PvP MMOs has been non existent up until the kickstarter age so to say there’s a pattern there is pretty faulty as we don’t have much historical player data to show how those players act. They could end up being just as fickle or entirely prefer short term style games now (IE: PUBG, Fornite, MOBAs, etc).

It’s not fuzzy logic, you simply misunderstood what I was saying. If your PvE server has PvP elements a certain number of PvP focused players will end up going to the PvE servers. So your PvP player base ends up split between both servers. It’s the same case if they introduce multiple PvP servers, your PvP base ends up split up (which is why most people in World Adrift were upset they added a second server before the whole PvP/PvE split thing).

I’m not painting one side as particular better or worse than the other, only rather in this circumstance in this game having actually played the game their decision doesn’t make much sense. The hardliner PvE people will avoid it and people who randomly try it will find there really isn’t much of a PvE game there as there’s little to no PvE threat. Bulk of the game was that style of suspenseful game play where you’re exploring a dangerous world where the bulk of that danger came entirely from other players.

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Line

PvP MMOs haven’t been so popular in the last few years because they literally never have been popular, since the first day Ultima Online opened a PvE “server”.

Anything with permanent progression is anathema to PvP, and will never, ever work.

Short term PvP games have always been the most popular type of gaming, even back then Counter Strike or Starcraft dwarfed the entire PvP MMO industry for a reason.
But nobody wants to play PvP in an MMO outside of gankers.

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Nathan Aldana

This. Shit, look at warmode in wow, where there are servers where pvp is a wasteland because the second any faction feels like its winning, the losing side doesnt “git gud” they stop showing up because world pvp isnt fun when theyre just trying to finish their dailies.

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Arktouros

Unbalanced factions are a fantastic example of why PvPers prefer FFA style PvP rather than factions. If someone tries to create their own massive faction of players then they have to have some corporate level management skills to manage the hundreds or thousands of people under their organization. Some do, and it’s frankly amazing to see them in action in games as much as they get derided as mindless zergs etc.

By comparison faction style PvP tends to be a low effort form of PvP trying to offer some consolation to PvPers to give them an option to PvP while still not being an everyone for themselves environment. Half measures end up pleasing no one as usual but make up the bulk of the games’ PvP offerings from 2004-2016.

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Arktouros

This isn’t really accurate assessment.

For example by the time UO had created PvE servers with Trammel and Felucca they had a massive number of reworks regarding PvP alienating much of the PvP playerbase. For one, the game balance literally changed week to week and one moment your 7x GM spec was rock solid and the next lumberjacking added 3000% damage and you had to regrind everything or dudes with axes would one shot you. For two they had implemented a murder system where you had stat loss for PKing creating massive grinds to refix your character each time you died. Most of my PK guildies were 100% done with the game by the time the first Siege Perilous server came about for example.

Most games really haven’t done the PvP market justice since. Most survival games come close but lack the scale of open world and player count that PvP folks want. They don’t want some hunger games dome, they want a mad max world.

It always cracks me up when people say no one wants these games because it’s clear they’re someone who doesn’t PvP much or has had much experience with PvP communities. There’s numerous multi-thousand person PvP guilds out there (Ruin Gaming, Veritas/Team Legacy, etc) and many more that number in the hundreds and innumerable old school PK guilds who’ve been around since UO (most seem to have kinda merged together). However at the end of the day these guys (and gals) are gamers as much as the next gamer. They’ll put up with some shit from a game but aren’t going to put up with rampant hacking or bad game design decisions which unfortunately both tend to be very common traits with PvP focused games.

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Utakata

It’s tough when preconceived narratives go again grain of the reality biting, “Yep, we told you so!” Perhaps there’s something wrong with the approach of the game design, as opposed to “fickle” players who wouldn’t drop their wallets on this game if you paid them to. Non?

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Arktouros

Speaking of preconceived narratives you seem to have an extreme misunderstanding of what went down in this particular game.

First misstep by the developers was they 100% marketed the game as an exploration game instead of a survival style game. This lured people into the game looking for exploration rather than it being super clearly explained what their intent for the game was. Second misstep is when the people that were lured in by the false idea of what the game really was they responded with what the game really was. This was their “git gud” style commentary and adamantly refusing that PvE would even be possible.

This, in turn, upset people who were lured in expecting an exploration game and in turn getting a survival game. They review bombed the shit out of the game and instead of accepting it was the wrong kind of game decided to complain loudly that the game should be changed to match their desires. This is very important because you’re going to see this nonsense in every major PvP game coming up. Rather than just shrug their shoulders and go back to the literal dozens of other PvE games out there people are going to bitch, moan, complain and review bomb PvP focused games.

The final mistep is the company caves in to the review bombing and decides to go with a more PvE focused direction. This in turn pisses off the remaining, loyal PvP players they had with the game who now also in turn bitch, moan, complain and review bomb the game for a bait and switch. Now you have a game no one is willing to drop their wallets on. It’s not PvP enough for the PvP players and it’s not PvE enough for the PvE players.

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Nathan Aldana

lets be fair. it was never going to be pvp enough for the pvp players.

The sort of people who consider hardcore pvp to be their thing tend towards more focused pvp experiences, not sandboxes. Sandbox pvp absolutely requires there to be hapless victims around for the gankers to murder.

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Arktouros

Most PvPers were pretty happy with the game right up until they announced a PvE server that I saw in their forums/community areas. Other groups I knew from PvP communities had played it but wanted to wait till they were done wiping. Between games like Albion (which had a 2-3 year alpha/betas) and otherwise there’s a bit of a “beta fatigue” at this stage when it comes to new PvP games.

That’s a fairly biased opinion on what sandbox PvP requires as most PvPers are absolutely content to kill each other as much as anyone else. However if the population dwindles due to other lingering issues and concerns that snowballs quickly as if players are the content and players start to leave that presents sustainability issues. No one realistically expects there to be some sort of “crop” of hapless players or PvE players and saying they do is wholly ignorant of what it’s like to play in a PvP environment. There was one brief moment in MMO history where that was the case (UO) and it ended the second game launched.

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Utakata

Err…I don’t. Because you assert such without evidence, does not mean I have an extreme misunderstanding on anything. It’s pretty obvious to many of us the PvP side of things is not working out so well for this game. Hence, what was reported, seems to be fairly clear on that. Leaving you only with your word and the occasional /upvote. You are free to spin it however you want though, lol.

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imayb1

Regarding review bombing…

If I pick up a book and the blurb says it’s about a private detective who once was a soldier, but it’s really a gritty first person narrative of a soldier in the midst of WWII (who later became a detective after the war), then I’m going to submit a review calling out the author and/or publisher for being horribly misleading– at the very least. The book is still about the same guy, right? However, a character driven detective mystery sounds fun to me, but a dark war story, not so much. I think that I would leave a fair review, but it’s unlikely I’d be happy with my purchase.

In that same vein, if a game touts itself as one thing (exploration is fun!) but is actually not what I was looking for (too bad you can’t explore without being killed over and over! Git gud!), then I’m going to state my reasons in a review and I will score it by my opinion.

When many people give something a low score, for whatever reason (but especially if many of those poor reviews feature the same reason), then the publisher should maybe reconsider their product or their marketing.

You’re implying that PvErs everywhere are going to deliberately grab up pure PvP games, and spend their time and money just to hate on them for what they are. Personally, I avoid pure PvP games but as explained above, I can be tricked. Since companies are trying to appeal to the broadest audiences possible, they’re trying to trick some folks and IMO, they’ll mostly deserve their reviews.

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Adam Russell

IIUC, the pvp game is already a failure.
So you think they should have sunset rather than cave?

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BalsBigBrother

Funny how impossible becomes possible all of a sudden when the player base isn’t at a level you thought it would be. Regardless I wish them luck but I think this will be too little to late for a lot of folks even at this early access stage and I think the airship has already sailed into the sunset.

Mewmew
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Mewmew

It always amuses me when a game company goes on about how PvE would be against the games founding core principles and wouldn’t work for this and that reason. They sternly tell the players that they refuse to consider it etc, and then when the game isn’t doing so well in popularity those supposed high standards fall away fast.

And yet it’s hard to pick up steam when the change happens partway through development and it isn’t a part of the game from the beginning. A lot of people will still just imagine it as a PvP game.

They’ve got so many quotes and things they’ve said that are going to come bite them in the rear now.

Since the game wasn’t made with PvE in mind to begin with, I can’t imagine the PvE experience is that great (especially since the company told us it wouldn’t be that great if they were to do it!).

And yet with a PvE server, I may be willing to try it. Just not at a time where server wipes are still happening. I’d also need to look into the game a bit more to see how that PvE would go, since the game was made in a way where it wasn’t supposed to be an option.

I haven’t looked into it because there was no PvE option in the past, the Devs were very hardcore about not having one, and the players were going on about all the griefing. It wasn’t something I wanted to look into at all. Now I’ll have to see if it’s something I’d be interested in or not.

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Schmidt.Capela

I’m still not going to try it because the “PvE” server isn’t really a PvE server, but instead a hybrid one; tier 1 to 3 zones are PvE, tier 4 zones are PvP. I don’t find any game that requires me to open myself to PvP in order to get the best crafting materials or gear as worthy of my time.

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Utakata

It’s not just that…it was the waxing and gas lighting of apologetics of players, (even by a MOP *writer), who where utterly convinced this game could not be other than FFA PvP. I mean, I have to hand it that this studio did an excellent job of brainwashing its patrons on this at the time. But in the end, all they did was solidify why I would never touch this game with a 100 meter pole and a pigtail.

That said, I am glad they are doing this for this game. I hope it works out for them, and gets them players who are turned off by PvP shenanigans to try it out. I look forward to what they have to report about it. :)

*Note: At the risk of getting my pigtails scaled back Ms. Bree, this particularly did irk me. Especially when the writer in question /upvoted a veiled ad hominem by another regular reader against one of my rebuttals…as the reader was obviously losing patience at trying to convince me to the contrary. Not going to name names though…as I don’t think that’s appropriate here. But the whole thing left me perplexed, to put it mildly. Sorry. :(

Andrew Ross
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Andrew Ross

Don’t remember upvoting a veiled attack against anyone, but I’ll apologize just in case. Wouldn’t be the first mistake I’ve made!

To the pve mode…. Man, this looks like a different game to me. Yes, there’s a pve mode, and it could be a lot of fun. But it IS going against the original spirit of the game, and I don’t mean ganking. The game felt more steam punk before. More grounded in reality.

This trailer looks more sci-fi at best, magic at worse. I’m guessing these additions are easier to implement into the gameworld because the necessary changes to make pve viable already shatter the illusion of real world inspired physics. It’s good to expand the audience, but it will cost them some players.

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Utakata

While I don’t agree with your position, I do accept your apology then. As “veiled” indicates it was less than obvious…so I’ll give you that. So thank you. /bows

Andrew Ross
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Andrew Ross

Yeah, any time I cross the line, you guys can contact me on Twitter or Andrew at MassivelyOP dot com. My full time job is slowly killing me, but I’ll try to make time for you guys. This site can’t exist without you, and I’m always willing to listen to feedback, even when I can’t reply to everyone

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Arktouros

Well they made a pretty convincing case as to why it wouldn’t work with their physics engine as Andrew presented in his original article on the topic. Like they were super adamant that once an object is in motion there was no way to determine what generated that motion to protect you from the lethal physics that goes along with the force generated by the object.

Goes to show why most developers talk in vague terms and avoid confirmations generally because something can always come along and change things.