Red Dead Online has a creative approach to handling griefing

    
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So right now, I’m feeling the pain of being a PC-specific gamer: Not only can I not play Red Dead Redemption 2, but I can’t play Red Dead Online either, and that interests me as an MMO player much more, even with the relatively small instance size. What I can do is watch all the console players stumble through Rockstar’s beta, and that’s been amusing too. To wit:

Polygon’s got a piece up on how the parley and feud system works in a multiplayer setting. After being ganked in retaliation four (!) times, a victim is apparently offered a choice to feud or parley. The writer chose parley and found that the only option for the players for the next ten (!) minutes was to chat – no guns allowed. In this incident, it gave the parties enough time to be embarrassed and apologize and go on about their business. Clever.

The feud option sets off a three-minute duel that’s a bit more fair. After the feud is up, each player is on a one-kill timer before the parley/feud options pop up (instead of a four-kill timer).

Eventually, you’ll be able to play in passive mode, immune to ganking, but for now, you’re stuck with talking or shooting it out. But don’t worry too much since the chance is high that you won’t get to keep your progress anyway; as Rockstar noted yesterday, resets are possible.

“We hope that all player progress during this early period of the Beta will be able to remain intact long term, however as with many betas for large scale online experiences such as this, there is always the chance that we may need to implement rank or other stat resets in case of issues.”

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Mr Poolaty

I feel like 76 at least in theory did the right approach to PvP gankery. Shooting someone inflicts weaker damage than normal unless they return fire then fair game. And if you do enough damage to kill them as the aggressor you become wanted and shows up on the map.

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G0dl355

I’m kinda shocked there hasn’t been an initiative to remove gunplay from video games and movies. The people who control both industries lean liberal so it’s totally doable. Games like Red Dead might go the way of the dinosaur before long.

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Match Austin

Sure, they lean liberal. But they also know that a majority of the customer base DOESN’T lean liberal. So I think you might be underestimating the greed of those people. And profit will ALWAYS win out over political ideas. And besides, liberal thinkers often times aren’t as deeply rooted in those beliefs as they’d have you think anyway. That’s why, regardless of political beliefs, movies and entertainment depicting violence and death still rake in hundreds of millions of dollars every single year.

Mewmew
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Mewmew

Nah the US is only uptight about sex. They’ve always loved violence in media. I do actually get it. The images of the two provoke completely different feelings in the normal minded person.

Sure, every once and a while some politician comes along who wants to remove guns and violence from games, but repeated studies have shown no relation to game violence and real violence. If anything game violence helps release feelings you may build up otherwise.

Various actors who very much are behind wanting to ban guns keep making movies based entirely on gunplay without the smallest bit of guilt or feelings of irony. It’s just not the same thing in media and won’t be going anywhere anytime soon.

Personally I feel there are other reasons behind gun violence in the US other than that it’s easy to get guns. I live in a state that is actually one of the easiest to get them and nearly everybody has them and it’s the 2nd lowest violent crime state in the US. The other states around it comprise the very lowest and they’re very easy to get firearms as well. So it’s not just an issue of firearms, it’s something else.

Not only that but explosives are so easy to find out how to make, and anybody who really wants to cause harm and violence can and will use other means such as explosives (many of the people who have done shootings just never got to their explosive stockpiles they also had because they were killed first, without the option of guns they’d go there first).

3D printers are just going to get more elaborate and able to do more tasks and use more materials in the future. We’re already to the point where you can make simple guns with them with their current technology, so good luck ever really getting rid of guns completely from this point out.

I semi get wanting to and wouldn’t really care if they did ban them, but am trying to look at it realistically. It’s easy to find a scapegoat without looking for the deeper problems and issues that cause some people to do certain things. Why are some kids so bullied and picked on so severely without teachers or Parents being able to stop it that they want to shoot up the schools? Just having guns available doesn’t cause this stuff, or as mentioned the states where you can get them the easiest and that have the most gun-owning households would have the most violence instead of the least as how it turns out in reality.

Anyway I’m getting way off here. They won’t be going anywhere in games anytime soon. People only worry about the next generation’s technology and not what they grew up with. Most people grew up with violence in games now and they know it doesn’t have an effect on real violence. Instead they’ll be worrying about violence in VR or violence in whatever the next step of technology evolution is for entertainment.

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TomTurtle

I can only hope that now that we’re getting a number of big name studios attempting to address open world PvP in different ways, we’ll get something good to come out of these experiments.

Potentially we could see some hybrid PvP system that players find fair and enjoyable that other studios could use in their games. That way we don’t see games thrown out with poorly thought out PvP that alienate many potential players like we’ve been dealing with for a long time in online worlds.

(Even if an answer to the problems of PvP may technically already be out there, it hasn’t been popularized enough to gain enough traction.)

PurpleCopper
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PurpleCopper

I don’t see how getting ganked every 10 minutes is a solution to griefing.

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thirtymil

.

a-fistful-of-dollars.jpg
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Ironwu

I don’t see how this solves the ganking problem at all.

* I gank (4 times !) a player, he selects parlay, I go make a sandwich.

* I gank (4 times !) a player, he selects feud, I gank him again.

Why not just put in PvP flag modes like every other half brained MMO has done rather than try to patch over a problem that has no solution?

Or have PvP only servers and PvE only servers?

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Schmidt.Capela

Actually, 4 times is just at the beginning. After that it’s each and every kill. So if you keep killing the same character, and the player keeps choosing parlay, you get a 10 minutes talk-only timeout every single time you kill him after the 4th.

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Ironwu

Still does not work, I think. Griefer will just move on to a new target after the sandwich & coffee. There is really no game cure for sociopath behavior. The only goal they have is to make others suffer.

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Match Austin

Unless, as -I- read it anyway, it shuts both parties out of utilizing firearms entirely, even against NPCs or other parties.

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Loopy

MMO players are not the intended audience for this game. RDO is gonna be handled more or less like GTAO – open world fun with no restrictions. The idea of turning off PVP flag or playing PVE only is not appealing to a general GTA/RDR player, and that’s just the reality.

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Rottenrotny

I’m no carebear, but I wish games like RDR2 and FO76 would just release PVE and PVP servers.

No matter what, if you’re a PVEr playing on a PVP server you’re going to eventually end up getting ganked, regardless of mechanics to curb griefing.

That being said, I’m glad mechanics like this parly/feud thing exist.

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thirtymil

What Fallout 76 is missing at the moment is the PvP servers, because their implementation is so PvE-centric it can’t be any fun at all for PvP players :)

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Rottenrotny

Touche! I’m ok with their current implementation, but having options is always a good thing.

xpsync
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xpsync

I can see now the ganking which is going to take place, it’s what gives pvp a bad rap, and deservedly so in potential cases such as this. Then you have Fallout 76, always on a full player map, majority of players 2 and 3 times higher than my current level (i enjoy the journey player here) and, it’s so rare anyone attacks me.

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Rottenrotny

I’m level 20 something and still have not been attacked even once. Almost all the players I run into wave/thumbs up emote to me and we kill some pixel monsters together.

xpsync
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xpsync

Yep, should be a glowing example of how pvp should be in games like this. Most i’ve had was a player (lvl 33) taking pot shots at me crossing a field.

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Rottenrotny

I was pleasantly surprised by it.
I think in part it’s the general mentality of players who are fans of the previous Fallout games. ie: solo PVErs

So when they get into FO76 they’re just happy to team up with a friend or 3 and go stomp some super mutants!

It’s great fun in that, except my friends list is bugged and I can’t add not team up with any of my RL friends, haha. T_T

xpsync
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xpsync

Agreed! It’s a great game, loads of fun, awesome community, peeps trashing it are completely missing out.

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thirtymil

I’ve only been attacked once in 20+ hours, and the guy blew himself up with his own grenade by accident. Best PvP Ever.

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Rottenrotny

Haha, that’s great.

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Match Austin

They don’t attack you because there’s no point. They shoot you, and you have to return fire to actually PVP, they can’t just one shot kill you out of the blue.

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A Dad Supreme

I haven’t even gotten halfway through the main story or even explored the whole map yet, and I’ve had it since launch. Didn’t finish near all the side missions or little things that pop up, nor anywhere close to finishing the collectibles, animal info and such.

I think most people who know me understand I am a PvE animal and really only want that in my games but honestly, I am extremely intrigued to see how PvP works in a game where I don’t have to worry about pitting my “slasher melee” guy vs a “ranged aoe guy” and all that BS.

It’s just guns vs guns on a platform (PS4) where everything should be pretty even. This is the kind of PvP I think I may be able to withstand as a PvE player, especially with other options given.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I’m eager to finish the story so that I can..gawk!… PvP.

xpsync
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xpsync

This might not be a good game for you to be introduced to pvp with, may i suggest you try a game much more player friendly in that department called Fallout 76 /jk haha :) Seriously though it might not be, wait and see really. Dunno maybe fallout 76 has a much more mature audience overall, can’t see that being the case with RDR2.

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Zora

The creative approach I had in mind would be to give the ganker a two seconds 250volt jolt through the controller after the fourth kill, but with cabled gamepads being a thing of the past I suppose this is what they came up with :P

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Mr.McSleaz

They make Stun Guns that run off of 9v batteries, I’m sure something could be incorporated into a wireless controller.
China’s probably already got it in the works to shock gamers who say the wrong thing into their mic.