Camelot Unchained promises that ‘a game is starting to emerge’

    
120
Camelot Unchained promises that ‘a game is starting to emerge’

Progress and change are the watchwords of Camelot Unchained this late summer, as Chris Junior – formerly of the RIFT and EverQuest II teams – has taken over the role of Game Designer for the project. “I really am excited about getting to the point where I can interact with the community, but for right now there is so much content that needs to be binged,” he said in the August newsletter.

City State Entertainment reported that it had “two successful all-weekend playtests” in August with 100% server uptime during one of them. “We keep working on CU, keep adding to the team, and slowly (and not so slowly at times), a game is starting to emerge,” the studio said, going on to mention that it wants to get character progression persistence between tests into the build soon.

Other projects that CSE showed off included the Tuatha Dé Danann Fir Bog, Arthurian Golems, a Shipwreck Cove locale, and plenty of weapon animations. And for a final treat, the studio showed off an RvR keep that a player, Treville, built for the Vikings:

Camelot Unchained has been under scrutiny this year in particular following the reveal that CSE is working on a second game in tandem with the Kickstarted MMORPG, particularly in regard to refunds, staffing, test focus, and its 90-day plans.

Source: Newsletter, Camelot Unchained. This article was amended after publication to properly attribute the epic keep to Treville and to clarify both the playtest uptime and the nature of character progression persistence being worked on.

No posts to display

120
LEAVE A COMMENT

Please Login to comment
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most liked
Subscribe to:
Reader
Jonny5tud

So… Lots of drama surrounding this game. I am a backer, but not really upset, as I never invest in anything I can’t afford to lose..

I think the main issue for me, is that by the time this game actually does release, it will be outclassed by other big releases. The Devs are going to,(or already have) miss the window of being a fresh/innovative new MMO. Especially with all the other MMO’s slated to release before or around the same time. If I do side by side comparisons with features, graphics, innovation, etc. CU will fall short in a lot of ways, that wouldn’t have killed it 3-4 years ago..

It really is unfortunate, as I would have enjoyed playing this one. DAoC was my first MMO, and at the time it was amazing. However, I might not even play CU because I only have a limited amount of free time, and will only be able to play 1 MMO. It may as well be the one that is the most fresh for today, and not 5-10 years old at launch.

Aldristavan
Reader
Loyal Patron
Patreon Donor
Kickstarter Donor
Aldristavan

I have no dog in this hunt, so to speak, because I’m not really Camelot Unchained’s target audience and I don’t have any interest in the project. I also have no specific experience with or frame of reference for Mark Jacobs so I’m not coming to this with any baggage.

That being said, wow. There sure is a lot vitriol in this comment section, especially from disgruntled backers who really ought to take their arguments elsewhere. The MOP comments section, if I’m not mistaken, is not your customer service channel.

Add to that the recurring list of characters (read: commenters) whose apparent full-time job is to comment negatively on practically every article and complain about something and, well, I guess that explains why I come to the comments section less and less these days.

It’s really a shame because I used to enjoy the thoughtful commentary that I’ve read in the past. Unfortunately, the comments section is more and more being hijacked by people who really ought to spend more time in the sun.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Tandor

Let me say at the outset that I am posting this comment as someone who respected Mark Jacobs a lot in his handling of the European debacle at the start of Warhammer Online, but also as someone who has no interest in CU other than as an outside observer, not being a PvPer these days. It simply isn’t my kind of game, although there was a time when I thought the crafting might make it so.

While I fully understand Mark’s decision to take a break from posting here, I think it would also be sensible for MOP to take a break from reporting on this game. It clearly still has a long way to go in terms of development, and even the developer is only able to say that after so many years “a game is starting to emerge” which speaks volumes. Vaporware it may not be, but it really doesn’t seem yet to be in a state where anything is gained by airing its latest progress reports, not least while the whole issue of backer refunds is such a toxic issue and no-one is willing to give even a vague indication of when the game might be finished.

If, as I believe, the relationship between MOP and Mark is a good one, and I fully understand why that should be so, then I think both parties’ interests would be best served by MOP putting CU on the back burner until there is real progress to report and a finishing line is stated to be in sight. Otherwise we’re just going to continue to watch what comes across increasingly as a train wreck in slow motion and that will do nobody any good. I’m hopeful that CU will emerge eventually as a game nearing completion, and that’s the time in my view to be reporting further on it. Meanwhile let the team work on the game in private and let the disappointed backers pursue their refunds in private too.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

Hi Tandor. Covering games during development, even early development and especially those indebted to community funding, has always been and will keep being a key part of our work here – trainwrecks and toxic trolls notwithstanding.

Reader
Rndomuser

I actually agree with Bree. The more people will know about the behavior of CEO of Camelot Unchained – the more of them will think twice before foolishly backing this game. Same goes for potential investor companies or corporations who may be willing to buy companies like CSE – these articles on Massively and especially the comments would be a good source for their research before considering making large investment or buying the company. I am glad these articles are being made and the comments are being allowed to be made here.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

All,

I’m going to take a break from posting on MOP for a little while. The last couple of days here have frankly, made it less fun to come here and post. This is not the fault, in any way, of MOP or its team and this place is important to gamers like us so my support for it is unchanged. That said, the constant spamming of personal attacks and lies are simply unacceptable. I support, 100%, the right of people to be angry at us or anybody for just about anything. OTOH, when criticism turn personal, nasty and libelous, there is no point for me to be here any longer. When people feel it’s okay to say the things that have been said in this thread, and others, about me without consequence, that just encourages more of that behavior and people such as myself to leave these things to Community Managers. I just don’t have the time to defend myself from the stuff that certain people have been saying. And as we all know, if I don’t respond (since I do try to respond to everybody) that just feeds into a feedback loop where certain folks can then say “Mark doesn’t dare respond to me. I HAVE THE POWER!” Thus, it’s better to take a break for now and focus on the games we are making and running the company.

Stay safe and uninfected everybody! I’ll catch you on the flip side.

Mark

Relmharver
Reader
Relmharver

Welp, he has now abandoned Reddit, MMORPG.com, Facebook and MOP. He has put strict, zero tolerance measures in place as to what can be discussed on the official forums. I want to believe things are going to go well for CU, but this just reminds me heavily of the communication crackdown by the Shroud of the Avatar developers over the years. If development is going well, and backers are happy, then none of this behavior is necessary. I wish that CSE had the funds to hire a professional community relations manager who could treat communication as a part of business and separate the personal and emotional aspects from it.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Actually, just taking a break (as I said), not abandoning at all. That’s why I didn’t say goodbye/farewell/etc. to anybody, even some of the folks I don’t like, let alone the folks I really like Schlag as well as people who criticize me at times (some of whom I also like) such as BB. But I definitely need a break from the personal attacks/libel. I’m fine with criticism, but the stuff that has been said here crossed the line into nothing more than nasty, personal attacks. When people were doing the same thing to Sanya back on IGN, I removed us from there for the same reason. Here, I’m just taking a break, as I said. Nobody, CM or not, should be subject to the kind of nasty, mean-spirited, lies (or threats) here or places like here. That’s one of the things that drives away devs as well as other people. We all need to be nicer to each other, especially now.

And you know that the change to the Forums was mostly just an enforcement of the “No expired equines” and thread derailing stuff that was always there, we just started enforcing it more strictly because I wanted people to be able to talk/vent a bit after the announcement of FS:R. But when it kept going, got personal, and was used to derail other threads, we just enforced things more strictly. And, as you know, the thread about refunds is still there and I’ve even posted there every so often. In my post, I actually encouraged people to offer critical feedback on what we’re doing in CU but as usual, some people on Reddit and elsewhere said we were doing the opposite. You know this RH, you can see examples of people saying certain stuff isn’t working well in CU (like travel stance) and they are being critical and no action is, nor will be, taken for that sort of thing. That’s what I want our Forums for, not just praise us when we do something right but also to offer criticism/suggestions, when we are not. But, expired equines or constant hammering on “Why has this game taken so long” on and on and on, doesn’t help. This is especially true when it was/is coming from people who’ve said that they already asked for a refund. You can infer any intentions you want from their behavior, but all I care about is having the Forums be a place where people can offer criticism/suggestions, without getting attacked by other Backers (you know I hate Backer on Backer Forum PvP) or having to hear the same dang complaint again and again, especially when it doesn’t have anything to do with the thread.

I was actually on my way back to post a helpful link that partially explains why I’m so focused on safety. This site is great for tracking info about Covid-19 US state by state. The daily numbers for Virginia aren’t great compared to a lot of other states and our area (NoVA) is right next to D.C. and MD and they have had issues to –

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Not using this as an excuse, just a reason for why CSE isn’t back in the studio right now. It’s not a great look for Va., but I do hope it gets better. I hate being out of the office.

Reader
dinarian_

“This is especially true when it was/is coming from people who’ve said that they already asked for a refund.”

If you refunded those people, they wouldn’t be on the forums any longer.

Reader
Armsman

Until they GET their refund, how are they ‘expired’? You’re the one creating and maintaining the situation by promising refunds and NOT giving them. (As to the COVID-19 situation -yes it’s understandable to a point, but please – if you can go into the office for occasional mail runs, you can spend 20 minutes setting up access to your office PC over a secure VPN so you can access the records you need to process the refunds; and if you can’t then how the hell are you continuing development on an Internet MMO remotely?)

And BTW I’m an ‘Essential’ worker who’s IT job CAN’T be done remotely, and I HAVE to go in every day – and I’m 57, so no, I’m in a ‘higher risk’ group – (don’t like it, but hey, it’s my livelihood and career and in the state we’re all in, I’m glad I still have a job to do. Unless you have strangers traipsing through that office of yours, with proper precautions you can safely go in to get the data you need to process refunds – but let’s face it, the truth is – you don’t want to be cause every bit of interest you accrue on deposited funds helps.)

So yeah – spare me – “It’s too deadly for me to go in…*”
* – Essential mail pickup runs excluded

That’s a load at this point.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

RH, I replied to you but for some reason it’s not showing. I’ll rewrite it.

Relmharver
Reader
Relmharver

It’s OK man, take a break. I realize you’re under a tremendous amount of stress with CU. I’m just frustrated to see communications reduced when I think they should be more open than ever.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

RH, I agree with you on both counts. Come back to Forums and talk about stuff like travel stance and other things. I’m frustrated too (obviously) because I do want to talk about the game but when folks try to derail the conversations, that’s not helpful. And again, it’s not even about people talking about the refund issue, it’s the other stuff that makes it not worthwhile for me to be here. It’s also why I don’t want a CM here either because they too would be hit with the same kind of stuff. You know how much stuff is going into CU, including the Dragons’ Web (shields just got put in), so there is going to be a lot to talk about contrary to the stuff you might read elsewhere.

And please keep in mind that it’s not just CU I’m stressed about. I have a company and its people too. It’s a tough time for all of us and the investors and I are trying to bring in more people to help, such as a senior producer. I was also looking for a great COO but haven’t found the right candidate yet. That means more time I have to spend not doing work on CU, but in hiring. Almost had a amazing candidate but he got a more amazing offer from somebody else. So, my job description gets expanded which means less time doing the things I love, and more time doing things that I’d rather not have to do and sometimes, doing things I hate. So as you say, stressed a wee bit. :)

Thanks for understanding, I’ll definitely be back as my message above states.

Have a great rest of your week RH!

Edit: And once again, my other post has disappeared after being posted. What’s going on here?

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Okay, once again into the breach but this time with a shortened version. I cut it down to the essentials:
—-
RH,

Weird. I posted a full version of this and it disappeared (twice). First, I wasn’t abandoning MOP. As I said, I wanted to take a little break from posting here because of the personal attacks. If I was truly abandoning MOP, I would have said goodbye to people, to some of the folks I don’t like, to those that criticize me/us who I also like, such as BB/Schlag/etc. as well as to MOP and the folks who have been supportive here. I was just letting people know that if they wondered why I wasn’t responding, that I wasn’t going to because I wasn’t going to be here as opposed to some other reason (new line).

I’m fine with criticism, but when things turn highly charged, personal, and in some cases, libelous there is no point for me to stay and deal with that. On IGN, way back when, when certain people went after Sanya (best CM ever), I removed us from there because IGN wouldn’t do anything about posts that even threatened her personally or, in my case, that wished that my son and I would die in a car accident because we made a change to a class. Nobody should have to put up with that nonsense, ever.

So, a short break is a good idea methinks. (this is a new line).
————

Oh, forgot to say, in terms of FB, I’d didn’t use it for long/engaging conversations, as opposed to here or MMORPG.

Will this post stay online? Will this post vanish? Stay tuned, same MOP time, same MOP place. :)

Mark

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

It looks like the first two posts were caught by the spam bot, probably because of the link. I’ve unspammed them.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Got it, thanks! Please feel free to delete the shortened version and the duplicate but not the other reply to RH. :)

Thanks again Bree.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

RH,

Weird. I posted a version of this and it disappeared. First, I wasn’t abandoning MOP. As I said, I wanted to take a little break from posting here because of the personal attacks. If I was truly abandoning MOP, I would have said goodbye to people, to some of the folks I don’t like, to those that criticize me/us who I also like, such as BB/Schlag/etc. as well as to MOP and the folks who have been supportive here.

I’m fine with criticism, but when things turn highly charged, personal, and in some cases, libelous there is no point for me to deal with that. On IGN, way back when, when certain people went after Sanya (best CM ever), I removed us from there because IGN wouldn’t do anything about posts that even threatened her personally or, in my case, wished that my son and I would die in a car accident because we made a change to a class. Nobody should have to put up with that nonsense, ever.

In terms of our Forums, you know that the zero policy tolerance you are talking about is mostly just a reinforcement of what policies we had in place already dealing with “expired equines” and thread derailing. While that certainly wasn’t all of the changes but again, they were mostly focused on enforcement of the current rules, not a zero tolerance of a ton of new things. And as you also know, in my post I encouraged people to continue to debate about current game design decisions so we could get feedback on them. You also know that there were more than a few instances on Backer on Backer Forum PvP which is a no-no under the ToS. I want people to talk about our game design choices, pro/con/meh and there are threads there where they are doing that and I’m participating in one of them so far. OTOH, people shouldn’t feel they have the right to shout down other Backers, insult them, or derail threads by saying things about the delays or create individual threads about refunds/delays/etc. which make it harder for people to actually talk about our game and give us their thoughts. I’ve never banned a single person for saying that they disagree with a game design decision unless it’s an EE. For things something like “This game needs PvE!” at most they get a warning. I encourage debate about game design, but at some point, it just becomes a distraction. More so when the person has already said they are refunding and are using that or other things to post in threads not connected to that. And again, as you know, there’s a lightly moderated refund thread which I also participate in every so often.

That said, the reason I came back here was just to post a link to a site that I use to track Covid-19 across the US – https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
It’s pretty good and I track it every day. As soon as Va. starts dropping down, CSE will start a limited return to the office. I’m hoping that if we can get through September without a spike, that will happen in October. I’m also hoping to go into the office once a weekend to spend some hours there processing refunds if we don’t reopen in October.

Mark

Reader
Solaris

Mark take care of yourself and your team. You have been more than gracious with your interaction here. I’m surprised you hung around this long.

Reader
Patreon Donor
Kickstarter Donor
Loyal Patron
agemyth 😩

You endure more comment reading and responding to stuff directed at you than any one person should really have to. Frankly, you should have taken a break long ago and more often going forward. I can’t pretend to know how much impact chatting with trolls on message boards and comments section can have on public perception for the company/game, but it isn’t worth compromising your mental health and the effect that can have on those around you.

Take care of yourself, your loved ones, and the CSE team and I hope we see you around here and people are less shitty about things in the future.

Reader
Agentoranges

I loved DAoC and have followed CU in the shadows for years. I loved your updates and info on DAoC and how you’ve tried to be fully transparent as possible with CU.

I am not a backer because I’ve seen nothing but drama unfold with so many kickstarter games and companies… So you owe nothing to me to respond or to deliver.

I will likely try your team’s game whenever it actually launches just because of my ties to DAoC Beta and throughout the many years I’ve played. However, I truly believe you need to get a CM and PR person in front of you. I understand you wanting to be the person to take the flak, interface directly, yadda yadda. However, I’ll be honest it usually doesn’t come off all too professional. When you open yourself to this as being the face while also directly interfacing with unhappy customers/backers you have no one to blame but yourself.

You could have placed someone who has the skill sets to deal with this, an actually CM. You clearly lack those skills.

PS: I don’t think anyone should be threatened… I dont think anyone should be hurtful… I don’t think anyone should be treated unfairly. But there are reasons to put professionals on the front line who can handle that.

Just my thoughts… Best of luck on delivering your product(s)

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
flying_dutchman

Wow … lots of hate floating around here.

Honestly I’m a little upset about how long this game is taking as well, but I just stopped following it. I went from checking the forums multiple times a day, to once a day, to once a week, and now it’s once every couple of months. Obviously things went a bit off the rails project wise but is that any reason for personal attacks?

Hell by my count I spent something like 700-800 dollars on soda last year. Dumping 100 bucks down the drain 7 years ago doesn’t really upset me that much……….

Keep plugging away MJ… #keepingthefaith

I appreciate all the time, effort, and extra work you do to keep in touch with the community, even while they are screaming for your head.

Reader
dinarian_

For many people the issue isn’t that they can’t afford to lose the money. I would never spend money on a game (made or not) that I couldn’t afford. Nor is this a situation where CSE in good faith worked really hard and things just went off the rails. Now I am not saying they didn’t work really hard, but they definitely didn’t do so in good faith. When CSE choose to spend 1/2 a year working on a side game behind our backs they didn’t go off the rails, they straight up misled backers. Splitting focus for half a year of a team that is already so incredibly behind and not telling the people who already paid for the extremely late CU was unconscionable and definitely in bad faith. And to add insult to injury planning to release said game before the long delayed CU is simply a slap in the face to people like me had been waiting patiently for CU the game I paid for. So to be clear my request for my money back is not budget related, it isn’t even about how incredibly late the game is or how off the rails development has gotten. I asked for my money back because having the team spend half a year making another game behind our backs can only be described as dishonesty and I don’t fund liars.

I requested my refund 6 months ago and followed all the steps necessary according to CSE’s written refund policy. I even provided them with extra information that their refund policy doesn’t say is required. According to that policy refunds can take up to 90 days, so it is now well past time that they either pay people the refunds that are due or admit that like the last half of 2019, the refund policy is also a lie.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Dinarian, you repeat the same things again and again but that doesn’t make them true. For example, from July 2019 to today:

1) We continued work on CU and the Unchained Engine while also working on FS:R. Things like Linuxification were necessary for CU and FS:R and C.U.B.E. This is a fact. We talked about it years before I even had the idea for FS:R. Going to Linux is going to save us up to 30% on our hosting costs because we won’t have to pay for a Windows license. Saving money allows us to offer a lower subscription price and makes it easier for the investors to see a bottom-line that justifies their continued investment, this allowing CSE to continue developing CU.

2) We continued work on improving the engine’s rendering pipeline. This applies to both games.

3) We continued work on our art pipeline to improve our ability to take art from concept to integration in the game.

4) We worked on getting the ability to spin servers/up and down on demand (scaling) as well as systems to deal with servers that won’t shut down. That is hugely important to FS:R but still important to CU to manage costs during the quiet hours on the servers, just like any other MMO.

5) From July 2019 to the announcement, not a single penny was taken from CU donations to fund FS:R. The investors and I covered the run rate of the company 100%.

5) And so on, and so on. The fact is that the vast majority of the tech that we worked on were for all of our games. As I’ve said in the past, our goal was that 80% of the tech work was for all of our games. Some months we exceeded that. And while art/engineering did some work that was for FS:R only (as I’ve said), the extra engineers/artists we got due to the extra funding more than made up for the difference. And we’re hiring more engineers this month to speed up UI work on CU, not FS:R.

Did we tell the Backers we were working on it? Nope, just like most companies don’t. But unlike most companies, when we announced the game we also gave our Backers perks, including the potential of cash payments if FS:R was successful.

Those are the facts. And in return, you go around calling FS:R a betrayal game, stir up dissent whether on Discord, Reddit, or other places even though over the last six months our team has focused on CU as promised, made great strides, hired more people and still you attack me personally, CSE, FS:R. And anyone who has played FS:R since February can attest that the improvements there have been minimal, especially compared to CU, as I promised they would be.

Those are the facts. Now, I expect you’ll do what you did on the Forums and any time I interact with you and twist my words and go on the offensive. That’s your pattern. And you made it clear to me, a long time ago, that you would continue to do so until *you* got what you wanted. My pattern is to continue work on CU, continue to hire more people, to make the game that I’ve wanted to make since 2013. And thanks to the investors, we are able to do that since, as I’ve said before, the money from the KS was spent years ago and without us, there would be no CSE. Seven years is a long time to make the game and we spent that (even a team of 20ish people burns through $5M quickly, do the math) years ago which is why we got $7.5M to make CU, not FS:R, years ago.

And yet, you call me a liar, others call me a fraud, scammer when my personal financial contribution to this project is more than all the donations we took in. That’s how much I believe in CU even in the face of people like you trashing me whenever possible here, Forums, Reddit and I’m sure other places as well.

Enjoy yourself in my absence, I’m going back to work.

Reader
dinarian_

I said you split the teams focus from CU to working on CU and the betrayal game. JB said him and AJ had been working on FSR’s UI rather than CU’s so there is an example right there of the original CU team splitting focus to work on the other game. And there is also that time after the betrayal game outrage where Lee said that having to work on something to show for a CU stream was splitting the teams focus. He literally said splitting focus. So, I am not twisting things or making things up.

As to me continuing to speak up about refunds until I get my refund and not shutting up until I get my refund, yes that is 100% completely true. The refund you promised to honor is LONG over due (just like CU), and I absolutely will not just shut my mouth and let you sweep this debacle of your own making under the rug.

As to you being a liar. You said in January that you would honor the refunds and here we are in September with refunds still not being honored, so what you said in January was obviously not true. If you don’t think that counts as a lie because we still have your word (which is worthless) that you will pay the refunds one day… eventually, when you don’t have anything more important to handle like…mail, then prove me wrong and pay them.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Dinarian, and there are you. Just the response I expected, thank you for that!

1) As to AJ/JB/Lee, did I ever, even one time, say that no engineers worked on FS:R? Nope, I said that from July-Jan, we were at about 80% of the time dedicated for CU and/or all of the games, meaning that work did occur for FS:R only. And I even said, right upfront, that some engineering/art/design time was spent on FS:R. And now, you are once again restating the obvious, a fact I acknowledged, to try to make it seem like I/we betrayed CU. You also refuse to acknowledge (inconvenient facts and all that) that thanks to FS:R we brought in additional artists/engineers who are contributing far more to CU than FS:R now and for the last five months. And, since they also found some time to work on CU/engine things as well during that time period, that contributed to the percentage.

2) As to refunds, please show me where I said, post Covid-19, that I would pay the refunds on time. Quite to the contrary, I said the opposite and that support was supposed to tell people that we would pay them when I went back into the office. And since I’m still saying that refunds will be paid, then I haven’t lied. And also, back in January I didn’t anticipate being out of the office this long, just like most companies/governments. I could solve this whole thing by going into the office for a few hours, pay as many refunds as I could in that time, and then say “See, we are paying refunds” but that would be a disingenuous act. I could also go in, pay out the most vocal people in the hopes they would quiet down, but that too would be disingenuous and be unfair to the vast majority of people who understand what we’re going through, unlike yourself, and are being patient while we try to sort things out.

3) And as far as you not speaking out, you have every right to complain about not getting a refund, I’ve said that multiple times here, there and everywhere I am. We even have a thread on our Forums where people can do just that. All I ask is people keep it polite and stay within our ToS on our Forums. You have taken that to another level with your heavily emotion-filled terms (betrayal game, say that I’m lying, etc.) and made it highly personal once you started that stuff. And again, you refuse to acknowledge facts unless they fit your narrative whereas I am happy to say that we make/made mistakes, apologized, etc.

Thanks again for responding like I thought you would, much appreciated.

Reader
dinarian_

1. So then we agree that what I said is true. AJ, JB, etc spent that time working on not 1 but 2 games aka splitting their focus. So like I said, you choose to have the team split focus for the last half of 2019 without telling backers who had been patiently waiting for CU just like I said. I am just confused because you keep saying that I am twisting things, but then you acknowledge that they did in fact work on the betrayal game and you did not tell backers just like I said.

2. You have had a ton of time to remedy the refund system since the new covid reality. You have chosen instead to do nothing to fix/adapt the refund process to the new reality, because apparently honoring the promise you made in January isn’t as important as getting the mail. When you say that post covid you never said xyz, are you saying that the promises you made pre covid don’t count? During what date range should people believe your promises and during which dates do your promises mean nothing?

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Dinarian,

1) You continue to say the same thing and twist my words to suit your purposes. You make it seem like our teams were *only* working on FS:R and that’s not true at all. I’ve said, again and again and again, that sometimes over that time period people were doing some work on FS:R only. OTOH, the goal for CSE was that 80% of the team’s output would go to either CU or engine stuff. By default, that means that sometimes during that time people were working on things like UI. OTOH, why is it so hard for you to say, “Okay, I understand that you added additional engineers/artists/designers that contributed during that time period and beyond to CU and the engine, which has helped CU move along in development.” That’s the other side of the coin which you have chosen to ignore, every time you criticize what we did. The simplest example is our move to Linux. If we hadn’t done it then, we would have had to do it some other time since we needed to launch on Linux as we had said for years. And the longer we waited, the harder it would get as the codebase expanded. So, we chose to do it then, before we had a full CU game loop running so we wouldn’t slow down the schedule due to it once we have gotten to Beta 2. And if we had fewer engineers (because we wouldn’t have
gotten gotten the additional money), it would have taken even longer (less engineers == longer time) than it did. Why do you continue to refuse to acknowledge that?

FYI, even during that time period, engineers were working on things we are using today for CU.

2) Once again twisting my words. Refunds will be paid, once I go back into the office to work. That’s it.

Mark

Reader
dinarian_

1. Splitting focus doesn’t mean only. You are the one who is twisting things.

2. So you are committed to continuing to do nothing about refunds, and you refuse to do anything to fix the process. Mail is more important than fulfilling your promises. But please don’t call you a liar because publicly promising one thing and then blatantly refusing to do anything to fulfill that promise doesn’t count as lying?

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Dinarian, LOL. Thanks!

Reader
Bruno Brito

Hell by my count I spent something like 700-800 dollars on soda last year. Dumping 100 bucks down the drain 7 years ago doesn’t really upset me that much……….

Not the point.

Reader
Rndomuser

Hell by my count I spent something like 700-800 dollars on soda last year.

I spent more than you ever did on donating money to organizations like St. Jude’s Children’s hospital as well as to various streamers on Twitch (because I felt like the streamers deserved it by being good entertainers). Money that I donated to CSE are not necessary to me. I just dislike the idea of money being wasted on something I do not believe in anymore, this is why I want them back, regardless of the amount.

Reader
Ting

This is exactly why I don’t fund Kick-starter projects and never will. Finished products get my money. I know that sounds cold and heartless, but cash grabs can come from indie and AAA studios just alike.

That being said, I know Mark and his team isn’t one of them. They have been working diligently on the project to make our lives better through entertainment. I am one of Mark’s biggest fans turned critic, simply because I cared about the projects he worked on. If you don’t like a studio’s business model, design choices or timeline simply walk away. There is no need to berate someone getting up every day trying to make our lives and the lives around him better.

Getting the right talent together to make really great games is nothing short of a miracle in today’s market. Lets put the personal attacks and vitriol aside and give mutual respect in the difference of opinions. If you care about a project enough, offer constructive feedback with the understanding that you are entitled to your opinion and that’s all.

Reader
dinarian_

I have been trying to walk away for 6 months that is how long it has been since I requested my refund. If only MJ would honor the refunds he promised to pay.

Reader
Ting

I invested in “Dark and Light” before crowdfunding became a thing. The company actually went bankrupt before I got my money back. Chalk it up as a life lesson to not get so emotional attached to a project, especially when it doesn’t become what you expect. Save your money for finished projects then make a decision to buy.

Reader
dinarian_

There are 2 lessons I have learned from this ordeal. 1. Never EVER give a game company money until after they have made the game. 2. Never EVER, and I mean EVER get involved in a game associated with MJ.

Reader
Bruno Brito

Yeah, but this isn’t the case here: MJ is alive, kicking, his game is trudging along, and he promised refunds.

Now, i get the entire covid situation, but is it so hard to offer the refunds at a distance? I find hard to believe that everything is in his office and he never ever went there to get the paperwork.

Reader
dinarian_

He has been to the office. He said so in his end of July stream. Getting the mail was very important so he went in. Keeping his word and figuring out a way to pay the refunds he promised is apparently less important than mail.

Reader
Bruno Brito

Again, i find it really hard to believe he can’t work those from his own personal computer. We got a thing called internet.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

As I’ve said before:

1) I’ve only gone into the office to pick up files/mail a couple of times since I left in March. I do not/have not gone in for anything else. As such, I can go into the office and be out of there in less than 30 minutes limiting my risk of exposure. I’ve done the same thing in my personal life as well. I’ve eaten inside a restaurant once since April. Other than food shopping, I also stay away from stores, haven’t had a haircut, etc.

2) The only way for me to access some of the data I need is to either bring the PC home or stay in the office to process refunds. That PC is off the network for security reasons as I said when we made the changes to our data storage/access due to GDPR. Logging into work is easy, logging into a PC that is off the network/Internet is impossible.

Same thing I’ve been saying for months, nothing has changed.

And Dinarian, yes paying refunds is less important than increasing the chances of me or my wife contracting Covid-19 especially since we are both high risk cases due to my wife’s breast cancer (which we’ve talked about in the past) and my multiple bouts with skin cancer as well as other factors.

Reader
dinarian_

You could have fixed the system for refunds by now so that there is no risk to anyone, but you have chosen not to. That is 100% on you.

And I never said refunds were more important than your wife. I said that fulfilling your promise to honor the refunds is apparently less important than mail. I mean heck you could have gotten your mail forwarded.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Dinarian, in order to “fix the system” we would either have to undo some of the things we did for GDPR or risk that data being accessible. Each would take time, slow down CU’s development, and add risk. I’m not willing to do that.

Sawthelightsota, I’ve been in the office once or twice since I left a few weeks after I told the team to go home, grabbed the mail, grabbed some files and left. That’s it. If I was spending significant time in the office, you’d be right in criticizing that aspect. But I’m willing to take the risk for a grand total of less than an hour but I’m not willing to take the risk for days. And while that machine is not like in MI, it’s simply off any network, internal or external. And I don’t want to pack it up and take it home and run other risks with it.

Reader
dinarian_

It is September you have had plenty of time. What you are clearly not willing to do is lift a finger to process the refunds.

sawthelightsota
Reader
sawthelightsota

Mark, I appreciate the candor here and of course, prefer everyone stay as safe as possible during Covid, especially if you are in at risk group.

But unless the refund computer is locked into your office like the one in the Langley scene of Mission Impossible, couldn’t you, you know, unplug it and take it home? Even if it’s a tower box, that would take a minute or two.

It is a not flattering look to give that as the reason, particularly if you do go into the office to get mail once in a while. It just gives off a “I cannot or do not want to deal with refunds despite saying we would honor them, and will throw out the Covid card to give air cover” vibe.

Reader
Drunk3nShaman

Halo infinite has been worked on with a team of over 200 for 5+ years, why is it taking so long? they are developing an engine and game, just like CU is doing.

Mark does not have a team anywhere near 200 let alone the backing of a multibillion dollar corporation. I admire his guts and willingness to take shit from knuckle draggers online who whine about some cheese they threw away.

CU and SC haters make me sick, very few have valid points if any at all and no one forced you to throw anyone money.

If you Neanderthals took as much time bitching about how misused your tax’s are and spent time rallying around the right people and causes in the world it would be a damn fine place.

F-ing pipe dream.

Building a game that can do things that have never been done with an engine that does not exist takes time, honestly knowing as much about this industry (being an outsider) I figured 10 years with the size of the staff and what they were trying to accomplish.

It is a little insane, only Star Citizen is pushing the envelope further than CU IMO and only because they have the resources to, the scope of that game increased with the funding.

And to Mark, I’m with you.

here for the long haul with a few others that are plenty busy with other great games to play, take your time mark… no rush here. I’ll play it like blizzard used to say when they were a great game company “when it’s ready”

Godspeed

P.S. New World is amazing, can’t wait for next year!

Reader
dinarian_

“some cheese they threw away.’ This part is so true. Giving CSE my money all those years ago has been as worthwhile as if I had just thrown that money in the trash, and I think I am as likely to get a refund as I am to find that thrown away money in a landfill.

Reader
Drunk3nShaman

I lost 150 with landmark so I know how you feel but if you can’t afford it don’t do it.
When I back a project I do it because I’m willing to lose my money on a project.
LET ME REPEAT THAT, WHEN I BACK A PROJECT I AM PREPARED TO LOSE MY MONEY.
Just like stocks or any other investment, you can never truly tell the future.

Only back a project if it wont upset or hurt you to if you get nothing out of it.

Reader
Rndomuser

After 7 years, Mark finally included another video inside his own with few seconds of buildings made by a fan of the game, buildings that look like something from the “free” section of Unity asset store or UE Marketplace. Yeap, the game is definitely “emerging”. /s

Seriously, though – yet another video with over 2 hours of empty words and I still do not have refund issued. I don’t need made-up excuses with ridiculous explanations, Mark. I really don’t. All I need is my own money back, money which I gave because of my own stupidity and which nobody forced me to do that and I am not legally eligible to receive them but which is something that is still promised on official website. I would like to see this promise to be fulfilled, I do not care about any other promises anymore.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Insult me all you want but don’t insult Treville. Working with C.U.B.E., people like him, Scott Florence, and in the past, Necromaniak, have created great structures and have helped us evolve C.U.B.E. He and they deserve far better than than the scorn of someone who, like some of the other folks in this thread, writes posts like yours.

Tl;dr – Stop insulting other Backers who took time out of their lives to build and play with an tool still in development and created some great stuff.

Reader
Bruno Brito

Don’t martirize yourself when you’re in the wrong. Swallow your pride and deliver your product.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

BB, I’m not. I just don’t like it when people who are helping us become targets of opportunity for other people. Same thing happened in Discord and it’s not right. Criticizing me is one thing, criticizing other Backers, as a way of criticizing us, is another.

Reader
Rndomuser

don’t insult Treville

I am not insulting Treville, I am making a fun about contents of YOUR video. In fact, I had a friendly conversation with him about making assets in Unity and Unreal engine on official CSE Discord, where I expalined my comment about what I have seen in his YouTube video and gave him a suggestion. Anyone can see this, it happened in a public channel on CSE Discord server, this server is accessible to any person regardless if they backed the game or not.

And, being a dishonest and delusional person as you are (I apologize to Bree if she is reading this but I do not have any other words to describe Mark), you again trying to deflect my refund comment with irrelevant reply about irrelevant topic. This is unfortunate but not surprising at all since this is all you did in every reply to my comments on this site.

Reader
Doulos

Good job as always. <3

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Thanks! As Schlag represents so well below, slowly but surely. :)

Reader
silverlock

I liked the keep very nice. It’s inspired me to play a Nordic country when CK3 comes out in a few hours.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Yeah, Treville kicked butt on that one. Amazing work. It’s on Hatchery now, going to check it out later.