Whatever happened to Saga of Lucimia?

    
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Whatever happened to Saga of Lucimia?

Sometimes the development of a title goes so dark that months go by before anyone really notices. Such is the case with the group-centric Saga of Lucimia, which has been mostly running silent since this past spring.

Back in April, the team posted a video to highlight some of the world-building for Release 13. Since then, Stormhaven Studios hasn’t done much more in the public eye than post a once-a-month piece of concept art to its Twitter account. This pattern was only disrupted by a notice in May that Stormhaven secured the assistance of former Blizzard VP of Global Sales Bob Brown to advise the project on its path to launch.

However, according to the game’s Discord, Saga of Lucimia isn’t dead or abandoned. “Since April we have been very discrete and silent on social media,” the studio said. “The game is still being fully developed and updated weekly.” It also noted that Lucimia’s alpha community is involved with the ongoing tests.

So that’s some hope, at least, that we might be seeing and hearing more about Saga of Lucimia… at some point.

Source: Twitter

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Japheth

MMORPGs are in a good spot right now IMO. Soloable surface world content with a few group activities and then group dungeons and such.

The days of forced grouping MMORPGs are over and why a few continue to try to make them is beyond me. Just like the open world and/or full loot PvP types.

Also the lead guy on this one is a dick.

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Bruno Brito

MMORPGs are in a good spot right now IMO. Soloable surface world content with a few group activities and then group dungeons and such.

That’s a really low bar to clear. MMORPGs are not in a good spot, and most of the biggest ones are cesspits of mediocrity.

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PanagiotisLial1

I think this game faces similar challenges, looks for same type of playerbase, and are on similar levels of development with Pantheon. I like old school groupcentric games but I am not sure if any of the two will manage to release at this rate

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treehuggerhannah

How is this title supposed to be pronounced?

It reads as Leukemia to me, but I’m positive that is not correct.

kite91
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kite91

I think it sounds like Loo-see-mia

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Elloa

You are correct ;)

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treehuggerhannah

Thanks! That indeed sounds a lot better.

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Elloa

Hey guys! Instead of answering each comments separately, I will give you some updates :)

Saga of Lucimia is still being fully developed, and tested weekly. Hopefully we will soon be able to reveal our progress to the public. The team can not wait to show you what we have been working on. (yeah I know every dev team is saying that, but every dev team amateur or not, are generally super passionated with their stuff… )

As for some of the comments below….

– The game is centred arround group content. Meaning, that beside few activities, it may be difficult, or impossible to progress alone. Everything is created to encourage players to interact with each others and to have to rely on each others to progress. It is more than the usual “play along side each others” or “join a match making system to find random budies” that you find in many modern MMORPGS.
This is nothing revolutionary, but it is a type of gameplay that almost desepeared from the current MMORPGs outside of “endgame”. This is the main purpose of this game: to offer a real group experience for those that miss the old shool style of adventures and can not really find it in the current market.
Is it niche? Yeah.. but that’s okay. Niche is good too as long as it’s welcoming enough to allow some new players to discover a new playstyle they may enjoy.

– Regarding the Unity asset. Yes of course we only use assets. The original artwork, creatures and assets our team has created have never been shared so far.
Up to now, what has been tested is mostly: performances, game mechanics, concepts, etc…

– We may progress slowly guys, but you need to remember that this game had been developed by a small team of non proffesional working part time, for free, up to very recently. We have several contractors that have been working on concept arts and assets. Most of which has never been shared to the public. Yet.

– At the moment, our development is “more discrete”, but we are definitively progressing and our community has access to the test every week. We do not do any promotions, interview and the like for now. We continue the devlopment, and take care of our pre-order community.

I can understand why many of you would be very skeptical about our project, though. Especially in the current world situation. Afterall, we are nobodies ;)
I wil stand avalaible for any questions you may have!

May you all have a wonderful day! Peace!

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Munchmeat2

This has been the same line for years now. Honestly, if you guys had more of a game to show off instead of a glorified tech demo, you would probably wouldn’t have as many critics. The fact that you are selling pre-orders for a game that is probably at stage 2 out of 1000 stages is just insane to me.

You have a 2021 release schedule and you still haven’t shown us anything new here.

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Elloa

I understand your perspective. All we can do, in our case, is to do our very best, and to get out a product that people will enjoy.

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Bruno Brito

I didn’t knew you were involved on it.

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Elloa

I joined the team in 2016 :)

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Rndomuser

it is a type of gameplay that almost desepeared from the current MMORPGs outside of “endgame”.

This is false. Group gameplay did not disappear from the current MMORPGs, plenty of them give option to group up with friends to do stuff together. In some MMORPG games this type of gameplay is not mandatory because smart developers realize the fact that many people cannot or do not want to group up with others but can still be valuable because they are willing to pay money just like people who do not mind to group up.

Anyway, it’s fine if the game is being targeted only towards people who want to play in groups, after all it’s your money and you can waste them any way you want to. What’s not fine is making ridiculous statements implying stuff like “if a game is not all about group, it should be called RPG” like I see on Twitter.

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Elloa

In current MMORPGS, you can do most of the stuff by yourself. Let’s be frank: ESO, WOW, FFXIV and GW2, to take as example the games I’m currently playing, can be played with very little social interaction. Those games make it easy, and comfortable to play on your own with very little interaction with other players.

By contrast, what we want to create in this game, systems and gameplay mechanics that will strongly encourage players to team up, cooperate and communicate to be succesful. We want to re-create this awesome feeling of having an adventure with your group in a tabletop game. Its not just a Dungeons, or a boss.. its a whole long journey together…
So that’s the idea…

We are aware that this will appeal to a certain type of mood or players, but that’s okay. Its not a niche that is overly populated. There is Patheon, which I could say is probably the project the closest to ours … But outside of Pantheon, there is no pure PVE old-school inspired, heavily group oriented MMORPG in the making. So, if we do this well, we will have a nice game to offer for a certain type of players.

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Rndomuser

Let’s be frank: ESO, WOW, FFXIV and GW2, to take as example the games I’m currently playing, can be played with very little social interaction.

This is false. FFXIV makes it mandatory to group with people to even go through the story, unless the person is willing to pay extra money to skip most (but not all) of the main story, but people who do this are mostly the people who want to get to end-game raiding faster, and that type of content is also designed to not be done solo but in mandatory groups. FFXIV is absolutely not designed for any person who wants to have “very little social interaction”.

Anyway, like I said above, if you want to waste money on a game made for few players who enjoy being forced into groups – you are free to do this, just please do this without exaggerations and false generalizations like “”MMO” in MMOPRG stands for “forced grouping””.

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Munchmeat2

You are wasting your time with these guys. Their founder is nothing than a nostalgia filled gamer that is living in the past. It has never been a better time to be a gamer in my opinion and this idea that games aren’t social anymore is just silly.

This game if it ever does release is going to be one giant flop.

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Bruno Brito

It has never been a better time to be a gamer in my opinion

Eh…that’s a stretch. MMO gaming was always filled with mediocrity but at least the sense of wonder for new games was there. The issue here is that MMOs shouldn’t force grouping.

MilitiaMasterV
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MilitiaMasterV

Going to have to disagree with you. I’ve played every one of those games, and could play through all of them without ‘interacting’ with people. (And for the most part, did.)

(Not that you CAN’T, that you DON’T HAVE TO socialize. I have a social phobia IRL, so I tend to avoid people in general, but every once in awhile I get a hankering for some social interactions so I play MMO’s to have the ability to interact with others IF I CHOOSE TO.)

You can join ‘story mode’ stuff in FFXIV and literally never speak a word to your party, and be dragged through the content by people on ‘auto-pilot’ just doing the motions because they had to for some reward. I did all the way through the huge pile (100?) of quests/ARR story plot even past the ‘group’ raid stuff…

(Which when you join and actually watch the story stuff, you literally come out of your story to find the dungeon/instance completed by the rest of the group..and nobody around if you weren’t skipping it all…except the other people watching the story…and there’s so much of it on that specific one that you don’t get to watch it all before they are done so you have no idea what’s going on and you have to go back and watch it via a ‘feature’ that lets you watch movies from the story again…in the inn I think.)

…out to that Heavensward area’s quests…and finished most of those too, and even got to where I was trying out ‘Veteran’ content, and I had no friends and nobody to group with except randoms I queued up with through the finder or met along the way. I met 2 people on there who weren’t just obliviously ignoring every interaction who chatted enough with me to back and forth a bit and ‘add to friends list’

(One actually got a server transfer without even bothering to say anything about it to me/say goodbye/disappeared and never came back, showing how little they cared about our interactions. I found that rude as hell.)

…and get to know enough about the game, and one of them was generous with information enough and partied with me a bunch to get some stuff done…he recognized someone who could actually play well and was trying to get me sorted/to join his guild (Free company?).

(Ran across plenty of people at the social hub areas, but only really goofed around with strangers there and never really bothered to sit and chat with most because there was a lot of conversations I wanted no part of. And the occasional person out in the world, but most acted like bots/ignored you even when you tried chatting/interacting with them. As for grouping in dungeons, often people didn’t WANT to chat in those, they’d gripe at you if you even spoke, because you were slowing down their little speed run they were trying to do by typing/interacting/grouping/socializing.)

So, I’d argue, you’re missing the mark with your statements, as there is definitely a lack of social interaction being REQUIRED…the systems in many games were INTENDED to create that interaction, but people often just get around those systems by ‘grouping’ but not socializing in them.

It’s a problem I’ve noticed in many games.

Personally, I was slightly intrigued by this game ‘Saga of Lucimia’ when I read about it way back…because I don’t mind grouping mechanics at times, and sometimes enjoy being a part of a group of chatty people…but my problem came with their expectation of a group…because I would have nobody to play it with, and would have to MEET people to play it…which is probably more what ended up turning me off the game’s concept….how do you play a group game, when you know nobody to group with? Also, how do you all get together at the same time to play it…when various people play at different times all over the planet, so you can’t always be on at the same times, and life issues sometimes make you get up and walk away for various reasons, so would that then hold back the whole party?

It ends up sounding good ‘in theory’ but in practice, it’s unlikely to function well…

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Elloa

That’s where our team need to design good systems that will encourage players to group up and socialise, while still keeping enough solo activities for down time.

We are building the world itself in such a way, so players will have to cross each others, and rest between battles at the fire camp for example, which will lead them to meet others and get group going.
Many of our systems and concept: such as travel by foot, need to observe the land to know where you are going, the darkness at night and the need for torches, our masteries and crafting that requiere differents people with differents skills to collaborate, the size of our base group (8) etc… All of those systems are created to push players towards each others. Because alone, you will struggle, but in group, you will strive and have fun.
Our game is relatively slow and has a lot of down time. This will annoy the hell out of certain players, but will allow others the time to chat with each other, to chill and relax, to immerses themselves and evade in a immersive, virtual world.

During the test, I had the chance to observe how players were reacting to each others, how they were behaving to become succesful. I witnessed some really nice paterns. Like the campfire.. That was just working beyond my expectations. Players have to rest by a campfire to regenerate wounds and battle fatigue (called by our community “staminate”), so you would always have players gathering arround those. It became a well known place of gathering and grouping up. As the world was hostile and dangerous, players were collaborating with each others as they randomly passed each other. During the april test, I saw those theorical ideas actually taking shape and working, even better than I anticipated! That was awesome!

So I am confident that if we continue to work closely with our community of alpha testers, experimenting with systems the way we do, we will get the social gaming experience we want this game to be.

Thank you so much for your kind words and constructive feedback, btw! :)

MilitiaMasterV
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MilitiaMasterV

Just so you know, the usual sources of interactions between people I’ve personally noticed, are systems revolving around trading goods…

(Bartering is better…not for a currency and a badly manipulate-able economy but a system where person A needs something person B has, and person B has something person A needs, and vice versa and they negotiate amounts in exchange of goods. When rarity is introduced, it often just turns into a sticking point where people won’t pay the price and will do without and therefore not interact for it. An example from my last sandbox grinder game, I was a shipbuilder…and I’d work on a ship for hours/days, and due to the difficulty of that, I expected ‘well paid’, and many people wouldn’t pay the previously established market price…so I eventually let about 3 ships just get destroyed by their decay mechanic rather than sell them because people were undervaluing my work, but if there were something I needed done…I could offer my services for that.)

…creating locales where people will want to ‘plunk down’.

(What you’re talking about, with a campfire is a common theme…for example I’ve watched DayZ streams and when people aren’t beating each-other senseless and taking their stuff, if they’ve managed to find people they are fine with having around…they often sit around a campfire/or work in a small group and achieve a small fort in base-building servers and eventually find enough supplies to put together functional vehicles…in a world about surviving and eventually drive around chatting/keeping themselves stocked…until they run into other groups that can take them on….but I personally get iffy when it references ‘to heal from battle wounds’ which often refers to having to FIGHT other players…and PvP tends to often turn people OFF of interacting with others, because of distrust or fear of being back-stabbed/betrayed and losing all your stuff, especially in reference to losing all of their work/effort by full loot PvP. Many people just won’t even take the chance/play PvP because of this, and/or do something like hide in a cave playing by themselves, and therefore never experiencing what a game has to offer.)

Like a place they can build as their own, or a unique locale they enjoy being around. (This often turns into a fight over ownership, which is also something that turns people off of dealing with people…because of how games often do it very poorly/make you fight over the land. This is NOT generally conducive to group content.

So if your ideas revolve around making people fight (Each-other), and not TOGETHER against a common goal, you’re unlikely to achieve the group content you wish for. I keep seeing games make this same ‘We want to keep the PvPers around!’ mistake over and over again, and trying to force people who DON’T enjoy that content to mix with those who DO. It just leads to people feeling ‘unsafe’ and not wanting to play because ‘I could log on and all my stuff is gone’.

Where I HAVE seen people working together, is stuff like enjoying farming together, raising animals, even banding together to take down a big nasty mob of some type. (Though, as that person mentioned GW2, I have to point out, I would spend nearly an hour fighting a huge health bar ‘champion’ SOLO and I’d see about 2-3 people RUN BY AND NOT HELP and go grab the reward chest WHILE I WAS FIGHTING IT and run off, so if there’s a way for people to SKIP content, they will.)

Things that can be done together for fun, that build up the community…another example from my grinder game, it had pottery…so you’d have to go gather clay from specific clay tiles, and sometimes those weren’t in very safe areas, so I’d help other people who were maybe less skilled at handling various enemy units go and gather a mass load here or there…we’d load up on my ship, and I’d park it nearby with loads of storage in it…and a horse and a cart to go over and gather as much as we could…and I’d unhitch the horse and be on ‘guard duty’ so I could lure anything that did come away so they didn’t have to keep fleeing and could freely acquire a sizeable portion to take home and work on. This is the type of thing people working together can achieve…

On that game, there was also huge community events where people would get together and ‘imp’ (Improve) items for people free of charge…because they gained skill from it, and the other person would gain a use-able item from it. (Theoretically a ‘win’/’win’ situation…though they sometimes created drama…because that game had a RNG thing that would proc rare items…and if they were working on your item, and it rared…some people wouldn’t return it because they would consider that to be ‘their’ created rare…which they could turn around and sell for money…)

There is all sorts of ways to create interactions between people. I’ve seen all types of gatherers on my games chatting away while gathering (If it didn’t require intense concentration). People chatting while crafting. (Once again, when it’s not a system that disrupts chatting….crafting on FFXIV for example made talking during it nearly impossible unless you were on a VOIP program.)

One of my longest term ‘friends’ from any game (Over 10 years.) was someone I met while fishing on Runescape…which was semi brainless back when…just park at a node and fish, and occasionally have to move to a new node because of anti AFK ‘features’.

The problem is, AFK features are becoming more and more common, and some people prefer a little more interaction during their gaming (others want less)…between the systems and themselves. (I personally hate AFK crafting features…especially those ‘come back in 18 hours and get a reward’ type things.)

Some mobile games are moving towards the whole idea of ‘automating’ the game itself, so it plays itself, and you can login and ‘play’ and get your rewards…at that point, I have to ask…what’s even the point in playing, much less paying for that…

If you want people to play your game, it needs systems that people will enjoy, and grouping…while nice sometimes, isn’t so nice when you get nasty people who like to harass you. And while the common refrain is ‘Well, just ignore them.’ or ‘report them’…neither of these deals with the underlying issue of having problematic people who enjoy harming another person’s play still residing in your games.

I have a feeling most of what I’m saying will fall on deaf ears, because I’ve repeated this kind of stuff, in numerous suggestion forums over the years and been blatantly ignored…and watched the same failures year after year come out and get a huge following, then quickly fall apart because they can’t (won’t?) engage people properly.

Instead, they just like to tell us ‘they know better what we like’ (The last company that said that, has been on my boycott list for years now, and I have refused to buy any of their products since.).

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Munchmeat2

You guys should have just made a co-op game first, instead of trying to make an MMO. I’m not trying to be mean here, but the deck is stack heavily against you guys here. Shroud of the Avatar had industry veterans on their team and they struggled to actually build a game that would have any kind of market appeal.

You guys have extremely limited funding and a group of people that have never shipped any kind of game at all.

Why do I care here? I’m just tired of indie developers promising these grand experiences and not even being able to deliver a playable game.

Gamers are fed up with this nonsense.

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Munchmeat2

No one is stopping you from being social and a forced grouping game isn’t going to make anti-social people social lol.

There are plenty of MMOs and games out there today that allow socialization. This idea that you need to design forced grouping in your game is an outdated idea.

The market has changed guys and this game won’t survive a year even if it does release.

MilitiaMasterV
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MilitiaMasterV

Actually, many of the mechanics in a lot of games, DO ‘stop you from being social’. Faction based PvP for example, you’re expected to just DIE, no talking allowed. No working out your differences. No diplomacy. No deciding these factions are going to just get along now and work towards a common goal. They are permanently ‘against’ each-other for some inane lore reason.

Why? Because a developer of the game said so.

Why is this any different?

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Elloa

I think you understand my point. The current grouping system in FFXIV for example, is done through the Roulette mostly and while the FFXIV community is particularly helpful and welcoming, it still does not give you that feel of hostile world that push players to build friendships and organisation with other players, as you are leveling up.

I’m in NO WAY criticizing moderns MMORPG, I love them. I adore the games I’m currently playing and I’m very happy with them.

But there is room for another MMORPG that offer this type of experience to players. The old shool experience, but re-imagined to fit the current era. I feels like there is a nice community that are actually striving for that.

Now, we need to pull it off. We have everything to prove, and we are working on that. :)

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Bruno Brito

But there is room for another MMORPG that offer this type of experience to players. The old shool experience, but re-imagined to fit the current era. I feels like there is a nice community that are actually striving for that.

I’m going to be honest with you because i do want you to succeed:

There are. FF11 pservers and some fringe hardcore servers or Ragnarok if you wanna be charitable.

The issue that arises from those games is that they gate content TERRIBLY. Needing a group involves either having prior friends to convince to play ( which is not easy, specially to play new, unproven games ), or dealing with whatever sociopathic idiot appears because they become a necessity to complete content.

It’s also a problem because it forces a culture of “goldrushing” where most efficient groups with conquer the game’s economy quickly and level faster.

The problem with MMOs that force group is that they tend to be spreadsheet simulators, take a look at EQ P99 and see the best ways of leveling up and farming. It’s by grouping. The game soloing takes a huge nosedive after a specific threshhold and then devolves into a rolefest.

It’s extremely niche.

MilitiaMasterV
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MilitiaMasterV

It’s more that group ‘inter-dependency’ features being ‘required’ tends to make people want to rebel against that form of ‘control’.

For example, that game I referenced up there re:shipbuilidng, tried to ‘force’ inter-dependency between groups of people by making their mages (Priests in that game) in game have to depend on others by denying them the ability to do a lot of basic game features…so they would have to depend on others to do them for them, in return for getting fancy magic spells that could do things the normal players couldn’t do.

That lead to not a lot of people using the mechanic(In an already niche game), and a lot of people swearing off it altogether, and only diehards playing multi-box/multi-character idea who’d actually do it. (Because they got benefits to doing so/could fully experience the game.)

They aren’t exactly saying it’s not a ‘niche’. They already pointed out it’s something ‘unique’ about their specific game, and how they want people to enjoy it.

Why do people think everything has to fit them specifically? You don’t have to like it for it to exist.

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Bruno Brito

You’re not wrong, but the idea of “rebelling” is actually valid because it’s basically how you play the game. Forcing grouping means that you take off several concepts out of your game.

I normally play as a self-sufficient player. I don’t have friends that like to play MMOs, most of them like mobas, gacha, party games and such. I’m the only one who enjoys MMO, and the only MMO they like ( FF14 ), i don’t.

So, i always play as the rugged hunter that sells his goods in town, but is a lonewolf. Or the travelling crusader. Etc etc. A MMORPG should not prevent me from making my own fantasy within it’s world, and most of them do.

In this specific case, they’re argumenting that being a soloplayer means you don’t interact with the game, which is completely false. Soloplayers are sellers, buyers, producers. You can be a soloplayer and have an impact in the game.

And if your game is small, niche, unproven, and requires grouping towards experimenting even the smallest parts of content, then chances are people won’t bother with going after players and will instead complain about the difficulty curve and just leave.

MilitiaMasterV
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MilitiaMasterV

Just to throw a counter argument out…take for example some of the newly popular streamer games…”Among Us” and “Phasmaphobia”…both technically ‘require’ grouping for it to be any fun/function. (Someone could argue they even fit in our genre…)

(Theoretically you can play Phasm solo, but the fear factor is increased/higher when you’ve got other players playing pranks on you like shutting doors on you/coming up behind you causing their light to come over you causing strange shadows with the lighting effects/their model to clip yours and you suddenly see something in your field of vision that makes you jump…etc.)

They were/are semi ‘niche’ (2 people get to be the murderers and you all have to figure out who before times up/everyone’s dead in a murder mystery style…on voice comms, or figure out what the ghost is before it mercs you all/someone leaves in fear), and yet they’ve found huge followings all of a sudden.

Pushing against group mechanics seems kinda…I don’t even know, childish?

Let the game do what it will, give it a chance if you want, or don’t, but just using grouping mechanics as a ‘NO!’ seems just…odd.

MilitiaMasterV
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MilitiaMasterV

Thanks for the info.

Sorry people are being so nasty in here. People often get kinda grumpy when things don’t meet their time-tables/expectations. I made a comment farther down in regards to some of it. While I likely won’t end up playing myself, it’s always nice to hear about new games and passion projects people are working on.

Good luck in your endeavor.

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Munchmeat2

So people can’t criticize a game that was supposed to launch 3 years ago and all they have shown of their game that is to be released in 2021 is a glorified Unity store assets tech demo?

I feel bad for MMO gamers these day being fleeced by so called indie developers.

MilitiaMasterV
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MilitiaMasterV

Ever stopped to think that maybe it’s because of critical people who don’t support new ideas/change that think it’s OK to bash away on someone trying something new and fresh that maybe thwarts the creation of that new wonderful thing you want to play?

You’re welcome to your ideas, but you don’t need to be so nasty/mean about it.

I mean, the bigger question is, what are YOU personally contributing other than just hatred of their idea/means of conveying it to people?

You’re not ‘white knighting’ for gamers who choose what they enjoy/want to support of their own free will.

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Munchmeat2

Their ideas are old ideas. The game they are trying to create already exists in private servers of shuttered older MMOs as well as a little game called EQ1.

The market for this game is extremely small mate. Look at their crowdfunding efforts.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-saga-of-lucimia-indiegogo-campaign#/

They got 61 backers.

You can also see in the comments section Tim Anderson talking about their 2017 release date lol.

kajidourden
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kajidourden

Nothing, that’s kind of the problem. It will never launch, and it never even looked interesting to begin with.

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Rndomuser

I dunno what happened but their Twitter is ridiculous. “It’s all about the group. Otherwise, it would just be called an RPG” – really?? A person cannot or should not be allowed to enjoy MMORPG unless that person is forced into group? Jesus Christ. No wonder almost no one knows about this game and most likely never will.

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Munchmeat2

This game was supposed to release in 2017. I don’t care what their fearless leader has said over the last year about this being hearsay, they had a target release date of 2017 right from his own mouth.

I personally think these guys have no idea what they are doing. All of their early builds are made up entirely of Unity store assets. This game basically looks like something a bunch of high school kids would throw together.

I pressed him in a few Twitch interviews to reveal where their funding was coming from in April. Of course they wouldn’t give an answer on that, which probably means it is some family member backing them, probably Grandma’s investment club.

I personally could care less about this project and the only reason I’ve been an advocate against them is that I’m tired of seeing MMO fans desperate for anything new MMO wise being fleeced.

This team has been pitching this game now for almost 6 years and all they have to show for their time is barely functioning demo that was built entirely with Unity store assets.