Camelot Unchained details caravan mechanics and biomes, ‘expects’ a full game experience by summer’s end

    
117

Camelot Unchained has once more delivered its monthly newsletter, this one taking a deep dive into the game’s caravan system, or vox rota, as it’s referred to in-game.

Rota are floating disc platforms that can follow a route placed by players on the ground to help ferry crates of goods from point A to point B. Naturally, these rota can be attacked by others, but there is an insurance system for crafter-made caravans by way of a maker’s mark that crafters apply on caravan cargo, meaning marked cargo and crafted rota will still give progression regardless of whether it breaks down, is robbed, or successfully makes its trip. Players who would rather not work with a crafter will get some magical allotments for lost or stolen goods, but they won’t be as lucrative as they would be when working with other players.

The newsletter further talks about biomes, outlining another look at the Golden Plains location, a preview of the Coastal Lowlands biome, and also promises two new biomes will be in development in the form of the Black Fjords and Tropical Desert Coastline.

Meanwhile, CU’s weekly update provides the usual Top Ten-ish list of progress reports including more artwork, NPC and AI behavior improvements, and a few new class ability traits among other things. The weekly post opens up with some big plans for the coming months as City State Entertainment prepares to return to the office next month and push on with other “big updates.”

“By the end of the summer, Camelot Unchained will look and feel more like the game that you expected to see when you backed us than ever before. Whether it is weather systems, voice chat, new biomes, or caravans, all of these things are being worked on and we expect them all to be in the game before the end of the summer. Add in new races, updates to classes, crafting, etc. and you’ll have quite a game loop. And I’m sure that we will also manage to have some good surprises as well during the summer!”

We note once again that back in March, Camelot Unchained’s CSE agreed to a state-of-the-game-and-refunds interview that has yet to be returned to us. It is our understanding that real-life events behind-the-scenes at the studio have impeded its delivery, and we still mean to publish it once we have it. In the meantime, CSE’s Mark Jacobs reiterated to fans during his recent stream that the team is expected to return to the office early this summer and that it will speed up refunds.

sources: official newsletter, official site. This post’s headline was edited after publication to swap the word promises for expects. CSE’s Mark Jacobs now says that CSE’s quote about what it is planning this summer (still included above) is not actually a literal promise.
MMORPG veterans will know that Camelot Unchained, which was originally Kickstarted in 2013, has taken flak over the years thanks to delays, the founding of a second studio, the announcement of a second game using CU’s custom-built engine, and delayed refunds. The game entered its “beta one” phase back in 2018, with tests capable of putting 3000 humans and bots on the battlefield simultaneously; most recently, it’s been pegging forward development to 90-day plans.
Advertisement

No posts to display

117
LEAVE A COMMENT

Please Login to comment
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most liked
Subscribe to:
Reader
dinarian_

Just a recap for those keeping track, the alleged ‘speed up’ month has come to an end and there has been 1 single refund reported publicly for the month which to be honest is a speed up from the zero refunds reported that we usually get. The reported refund was from February 13 of 2020, so MJ/CSE is still at the very very beginning of the betrayal game refund fiasco que.

In my case I have been waiting 482 days for a refund and I am still waiting for that refund.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Tandor

Every time this game is reported on, it turns into a trainwreck in terms of the resulting comments. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – in everyone’s interests, MOP should stop reporting on this game until it has reached public beta in a meaningful way. Nobody’s reputation is benefiting from the present situation.

I know there’s the argument that MOP has a duty to report news, but has there really been any news worth reporting in recent months? Such as there is, covering it has tended to be counter-productive both for CU and MOP in my view. Tossing arguments around about the wording of the title to the latest news – really? It’s come to that? As for the refunds, I thought this was MOP, not dinarian’s blog.

Pepperzine
Reader
Pepperzine

The scope of refunds doesn’t just rest with Dinarian, it rests in the policy of CSE and their follow-up. Sure, Dinarian takes it to an extreme, but at the end of the day Dinarian has a legitimate gripe with how a company policy is (or in this case, isn’t) living up to expectations/promises.

That’s on CSE, not MOP. They put themselves in this predicament. Requesting MOP not reporting on this MMO because of the situation CSE has put itself in, and is prolonging, is both unreasonable and irresponsible. Not reporting on it would hurt MOP’s reputation as a MMO news outlet more than reporting on it, especially for the reasoning you provide.

Reader
David Ko

People waiting 1 year + for refund. This is the biggest news about CU, CSE and MJ. He lied about release date and he is lying about refunds. At this point we don’t know if he planned to kick start engine and lied about creating a game.
So thanks for Your input now go back to reddit or discord echo chamber

Reader
dinarian_

So, MJ said he was going to open the office in June and that refunds are now going to speed up….so that begs the question.

Hey MJ, how many refunds have you processed so far this June? Now that the office is back open when do you expect to finish with the refunds from FEBRUARY of 2020?

In case you have forgotten and again I can’t stress this enough, IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE YO HAVE FORGOTTEN, I am on day 454 of waiting for my refund (the one you promised me would take ‘up to 90 days) and I am still waiting.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

For god’s sake Dinarian stop spamming. We all know the refunds are delinquent.

Reader
dinarian_

I am just trying to get an actual update with actual info rather than more empty MJ promises that go nowhere.

MJ said they were going back to the office in June and now finally refunds should be sped up, but so far there has been no reports or evidence at all that any refunds have been paid during this reopened/speed up phase. MJ is really good at saying things that make it sound like for real this time he is going to fix the refunds but again and again the refunds make nearly no progress, we just get told to wait and let him have time, wait until x y or z day, wait wait wait, and after we wait the appointed amount of time CSE stonewalls us, and MJ shows up a few months late with another excuse and moves the goal post again.

For example, he said that he would be in there to speed up refunds after his second shot but that didn’t happen, and before that he said at the beginning of the year he would if they weren’t reopen by then, but that never happened, and before that he said if they can’t open by fall he would have to make other arrangements but that never happened, and before that he said if they can’t open in the summer he would fix the system, but that never happened…..well finally it is allegedly the actually doing refunds time (seriously for real this time), but so far there is no evidence that any doing is going on. Nobody has publicly reported any refunds recently at all, and MJ hasn’t updated the refunders at all on the state of refunds/where they are at, etc. This is literally the only place to ask with any chance at all of getting an answer, every other way to contact CSE is met with complete silence from them.

Of course I am worried that this June speed up is once again going to be hype but no actions and that it will result in like 3 refunds being processed and then months of silence from CSE.

If you are given a chance to ask any follow up interview questions ask MJ when the last time he updated the refund mega thread was.

Reader
psytic

He cant afford it and he cant say that he cant afford it. All he can do is string everyone along until the game comes out at this point so he doesn’t bleed refunds. Hes someone that had big hopes and dreams and the best intentions but lost sight of the core functionalities of the project. He really needed a publisher or Project consultant to reign them in and keep them focused I think.

At this point I think its best if he goes radio silent and focuses on the core functionalities of the game. Ranting on forums isnt helping the game. Dont go all Star Citizen and keep getting bigger in scope until your making income. He should never have taken on another game. I Really cant wrap my head around how this fellow thought it was a good idea to build a game engine and another game off peoples money. You build the damn game THEN you take some of the profits to fund other games. That’s what SquareEnix and everyone else does.. not the other way around.

Work on a b2p or F2p premium model like Albion or even hybrid model like WoW not sub only model. Anyone that was actually going to pay a sub has lost faith long ago and will not be paying a sub I can guarantee that. The game will have no population and be forced to go free to play anyway I can guarantee it. Get the game out and running well on toasters (look at Albion Online cross plat I can play that game any where on any device).

I feel like at this point dropping a couple mill on refunds probably will affect the game ever coming out. Not defending him just thinking like in my other post that hes probably past the point of being able to give back that kind of money until the game is turning a profit if we ever hope this game to come out. Refunds could be like a year or more of salary not sure how big the team is. So he strings us along with all sorts of fantastical stories of why people cant be refunded.

TLDR: Good Devs and Designers don’t necessarily have the skill set to be good Project Managers… Get some help to get your team on track. There’s no shame in it.

Reader
Rndomuser

Come on, Dinarian, that’s a little bit too much. He did say that he is reopening the office but he did not say he will be in the office right at the beginning of the month and he will be there every day. I am also disappointed by refund process and other things but there’s no need to comment on it so often, let’s just wait some time and see if there will be any changes this month.

Reader
dinarian_

I have waited some time already, 454 days (and still counting) to be exact.

Reader
Harbinger_Kyleran

We know already and you know he isn’t going to answer your questions.

So give it rest for now.

Reader
dinarian_

Why won’t he answer reasonable refund questions like when will they be caught up and has CSE finished the first month (2/2020) of them yet? Surely it isn’t because MJ is too busy to answer reasonable simple questions like that, he (the head of the company) has had plenty of time to call me a liar.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

What part of “stop spamming” did you not get

Reader
dinarian_

I did not realize that responding directly to people speaking directly to me constituted spam. I will assume that what you meant when you said “stop spamming” was ‘stop speaking’ if even responding to direct replies to me is now an issue.

Reader
Bannex

I used to be intrigued by the reports on this game and to see MJ come on here are interact with fans was cool. Now I wince when I see an article because I know the comment section is gonna be ROUGH…

Reader
Bruno Brito

Well, he kinda made that bed.

Reader
Solaris

For what it’s worth, I got a refund on a rather large backing tier. Mark was very gracious about it. To imply he’s not doing refunds is B.S. Maybe not as quick as some would like, but he’s processing refunds.

Reader
dinarian_

When did you request your refund and how long did you wait before receiving it?

Reader
psytic

The simplest explanation is probably the correct one. They probably need to ration funds at this point the companies been running on donations err I mean investments for 8 years with no product to generate income.

I suspect refunds get processed slow enough to keep employees paid and not
whittle down the corporate backer funds they recieved. He can’t just come out and say he doesn’t have funds to refund everything and get the game out or that would cause mass hysteria and more refunds.

Otherwise why wouldn’t you plow through refunds like Amazon and build good will? There’s no reason unless you don’t have the money. I don’t believe anyone would want to generate 70 post long hate rants against their company if they could just simply pay the money.

Not letting them off the hook its their own doing just saying.

Reader
rk70534

I’m a bit torn here; I think that the refunding question is an issue which CSE could and should have avoided, it’s unnecessary bad publicity.

But they are progressing towards a playable game, have refunded many backers, they have committed to refunding the remaining requests when most money given to crowdfunding projects in the industry vanishes without refunding or a playable game in sight.

We are not dealing with a vaporware scam, or people who have taken a too big a challenge and are honestly failing, but a studio which is doing things otherwise professionally.

So I hope the refunding will be dealt as soon as possible, the people who want their contribution refunded will get it, and that all interested about the game can move past this episode, with everybody hopefully having learned some lessons.

Reader
Bruno Brito

I have a lot of problems with the way CU was treading over these last years, but Mark is a passionate developer and he clearly wants to deliver a product.

None of these deny the other. Mark being a overall great person and a good dev doesn’t take out the fact that his project was mismanaged and delayed.

Everyone who feels betrayed by him have the reasons to feel so, and so do the people who still believe him.

Vote with your wallet.

Reader
Oleg Chebeneev

>Mark being a overall great person

You truely believe this?

Reader
Bruno Brito

Yes? I think he’s a good person. I also think he has the issue of taking too much of the moral high ground and not being level headed when it suits him, specifically on these moments. He should be getting a CM and a PR manager.

I do believe he wants to deliver a game. For what’s worth, i also think CR also wants to deliver SC and he falls into the trap of being too excited about every single new feature he thinks of.

Neither developer are on Dreamworld/Elyria levels.

Why do you think otherwise? I’m highly interested in your rationale for why CR gets a pass, but MJ doesn’t. Why are you so invested against CU actually? I don’t think you ever told us.

Reader
Oleg Chebeneev

Sincerity is one of the most important human traits for me. I think Chris in being sincere in what he tells and does. And Mark Jacobs is not.

Also I wouldnt say Im that invested in CU unless you call “invested” posting a few comments every couple of months. I originally started talking about it because for me it was painful to watch how everyone trashtalked SC but whiteknighted MJ/CU despite between these two it was CU that obviously looked like vaporware (zero gameplay shown after 6 years in development while SC had playable alpha for years).

Reader
Bruno Brito

Sincerity is one of the most important human traits for me. I think Chris in being sincere in what he tells and does. And Mark Jacobs is not.

Well, that’s certainly a interesting point of view, and one i could agree if we’re going only by this specific thread. The fact that Jacobs is still avoiding the interview with MOP as noted below while asking for redactions do make your point more likely.

That being said, sincerity is not a free pass for incompetence, and on that note, both of them are largely incompetent. SC having log issues this far into development is unacceptable, so is Chris not being reigned in with a 500 employee count under his belt. Temperance must be learned.

So is CU being also delayed by quite a long time.

Also I wouldnt say Im that invested in CU unless you call “invested” posting a few comments every couple of months. I originally started talking about it because for me it was painful to watch how everyone trashtalked SC but whiteknighted MJ/CU despite between these two it was CU that obviously looked like vaporware (zero gameplay shown after 6 years in development while SC had playable alpha for years).

I mean, i don’t think SC is vaporware, nor do i think it’s a scam. It’s delayed, bloated and i have deep issues with how is run, but i can’t deny Chris do wanted to make a game.

As for CU, i think the same.

And honestly, i don’t think being sincere or insincere to gamers is really a denotation of Mark’s morals. Do i like what he did with Ragnarok? Absolutely not, it was pretty underhanded and amateurish of them. But it doesn’t mean he can’t be a good person. It means he’s a bad manager.

Reader
Gevatter

The fact that Jacobs is still avoiding the interview with MOP as noted below while asking for redactions do make your point more likely.

MJ made it clear (stream and comments) that he has had more pressing problems than taking care of the MOP interview. In this context, MOP should also be criticised for the very unprofessional ‘side-swipes’ at the end of the last few articles.

Furthermore, I think MJ has made it clear that he was not asking for a retraction, but simply for people to quote him correctly.

And anyway: Why do we have to discuss here at all the correct interpretation and motivation of a person who can answer our questions at any time? Why assume something when you can simply ask?

Pepperzine
Reader
Pepperzine

Why do we have to discuss here at all the correct interpretation and motivation of a person who can answer our questions at any time? Why assume something when you can simply ask?

Kind of like an interview?

Reader
Gevatter

Unironically it’s maybe time for an interview.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

Telling our readers the interview we promised them in March had been inexplicably delayed for going on three months is not unprofessional. I do not work for Mark Jacobs’ PR department. Nice try though.

Reader
Gevatter

Telling your readers that the interview is late in several smug appendages like you’re Cato the Censor is indeed unprofessional.

I do not work for Mark Jacobs’ PR department. Nice try though.

And neither do I. Are you trying to imply something or why this snarky remark?

Pepperzine
Reader
Pepperzine

Promising an interview and then not providing it while answering cherry-picked comments or portions of comments is unprofessional.

Reminding the readers (many of which are supporters on patreon) that the promised interview is not being reported because it has not been returned is not unprofessional, in fact it’s the opposite as it is keeping readers/supporters in the loop of the status of the promised content.

Reader
Gevatter

Promising an interview and then not providing it while answering cherry-picked comments is unprofessional.

I never denied that. What I have said is that MJ has in my opinion (it seems that one always have to add that here!) adequately explained the reason why he did not meet the deadline.

Reminding the readers (many of which are supporters on patreon) that the promised interview is not being reported because it has not been returned is not unprofessional

I’ve criticised the style of the reminder, not the fact that they have done that. Accusing someone of unprofessionalism in a very unprofessional way does not help the cause.

Pepperzine
Reader
Pepperzine

If he does not have the time in several months to answer a specific set of questions then what is he doing in the comment section answering impromptu questions throughout the day? The logic doesn’t make sense, he either doesn’t have time to be answering questions or he does. Which is it? Cause it certainly appears he has time to answer questions, but only the ones he selects.

Reader
Gevatter

Do you know the scope of the questions and the amount of work involved? If not, you should not make any assumptions.

Pepperzine
Reader
Pepperzine

Pot meet kettle.

Reader
Gevatter

I would have been surprised if you had a more in-depth answer to that ;)

Pepperzine
Reader
Pepperzine

You tell me not to make assumptions on information I’m not privy to while making assumptions on information you’re not privy to. What more is there to say?

Reader
Gevatter

What assumption do I make when saying, that I’m satisfied with the reasons why MJ did not meet the deadline?

Reader
dinarian_

My dude MJ could throw hot tea in your grandmas face and then throw her favorite tea cup on the ground right in front of you and her and stomp it to bits right in front of you and you would find a reason to be satisified with MJ’s reasoning for having done it.

Reader
David Ko

What did MJ promised You? Pls tell us

Reader
dinarian_

If anything pushing for the interview that was promised to be finished is exactly what press should do, especially since in 2/2020 they did with MJ where he promised refunds in up to 90 days and those are still not paid over a year later. News outlets (well respectable ones) don’t like to be lied to in past interviews and then stood up regarding the follow up.

Reader
David Ko

You wish You would

Reader
Rndomuser

I don’t think your coverage of Camelot Unchained is unprofessional, Bree. You point out both the issues with this game such as delays with refunds as well as the positives about this game such as game being capable of putting 3000 humans and bots on battlefield. And there is nothing unprofessional with reminding people that you are awaiting the promised interview with game developer.

You are arguing with one of the well-known irrational fans of the game, though. A person who springs to action all over internet when anyone dares to criticize the game and developers in any form. A person who was already temporarily suspended from /r/MMORPG subreddit because of him trying to spread misleading information about people who criticize Camelot Unchained and trying to brigade by trying to rile up people on official Discord so they would go to Reddit to defend the game:

gevatter-reddit

A person who has recently tried to doxx another game developer by gathering a lot of personally identifiable and private information from various sources because that game developer is currently developing a game which will compete with Camelot Unchained:

gevatter

So yea, just keep on what you’re doing by providing a balanced coverage about games and I would suggest to just ignore irrational fans of those games, regardless of what kind of game it is (unfortunately every game has them, from Star Citizen to Camelot Unchained).

Reader
Gevatter

How low does one have to sink to believe that an argumentum ad hominem is a good counter-argument? A quick word about your accusation that I’m doxxing the CEO of a competing product — which, by the way, sounds pretty ridiculous coming from a guy who participates in a subreddit that’s used exclusively to defame specific people and aggregate public sources that include home addresses, among other things: Firstly, I don’t see AoC as competition (I simply don’t care about this game) and secondly, my “research” consisted of a 10-15 minute Google search about a guy who made his money by marketing his personal success story (and still does).

Reader
dinarian_

Well, when we ask CSE about our refunds they don’t email us back and the only thing MJ says is continue to wait indefinitely, so just asking MJ things ourselves doesn’t really get us anywhere does it.

I mean it has gotten me and the refunders like me 453 days of waiting for a refund that MJ the self proclaimed very honest man still won’t pay or honor, but even with all that time there seems to be no time for MJ to update us about when he will stop holding our money hostage.

Reader
Gevatter

Sincerity is one of the most important human traits for me.

Sincerity all well and good, but I hope you realise that there are no absolute truths — everyone is convinced that their view is the right one.

Reader
Rndomuser

Yes? I think he’s a good person.

I do believe he wants to deliver a game.

I am not Oleg but I would also like to answer since I also used to believe Mark Jacobs was a good person and wanted to deliver a game. However over the years I lost that belief, based on everything this company has done and everything Mark has done.

Let me give you the most recent example. In an official forums, some other fan of the game recently posted reply to me, attacking me with names, complaining that I reported a bug (which I submitted in a proper forum section with a video example and proper description), complaining that I “ignore all positive progress about the game”, then telling everyone that I backed the game “just to feel entitled to complain”. All because I gave a suggestion to Mark how to improve the public image of the game and opinion of other people. A genuine suggestion, done without insulting or mocking anyone, with plenty of examples which I genuinely thought would be helpful to Mark.

I reported this toxic reply to moderators. You know what they did? They ignored my report completely. I know they read it, I can see moderators in list of active forum users when they are actively reading forums and this forum has VERY LITTLE activity with perhaps a dozen of posts daily, sometimes slightly more. Then I wrote a direct message to Mark asking whether such toxic behavior is ok and whether I should just stop giving any suggestions to anyone and stop submitting any bugs to bug reports section. Mark has read my message, I can see it because forums have this function where you can see if anyone read your direct messages. You know what Mark did? Absolutely nothing. No replies like “yes, this reply to you is ok and you should just go away”, no replies like “no, this reply to you was not ok and I will deal with it”, no replies such as “I am currently busy and I will respond to you later”. Just ignorance of forum members being toxic to other forum members, both from forum moderators and from Mark himself, despite the fact that the forum is not very active. And that’s just one example. I can give another, where another member was mocking a person who requested refunds with a reply such as “I am sorry that your $300 donation is going to ruin your life forever, are they raising your rent in your cave?”, which was also ignored by everyone in forums, both moderators and Mark, and some others.

I don’t know about you but completely ignoring the toxicity of community members is not what I would consider a sign of a “good person” and not what I would expect from a person who wants to release a successful game.

I could provide many more examples, not related to refunds.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

RU,

Well, you should mention that you sent that message to me at around 3PM today, it is now almost 11PM today. I read it 2 hours ago and was going to talk to our CM in the morning. You might also mention that in the post that triggered a response from other people, I actually agreed with what you said and I did say that publicly.

And it is not my job to respond to every email that is sent to me, but you already knew that. And since I generally don’t immediately ban people, and rarely do so publicly, my first action is almost always to send a private message to the offender and not do it publicly. So you are leaping to a lot of conclusions to take a shot at me for simply not responding to you directly and in the way you wanted within about a 7 hour period. Somehow, I can’t imagine that there’s any developer in the industry where you could expect that to happen.

Just saying.

Mark

Reader
Rndomuser

you sent that message to me at around 3PM today, it is now almost 11PM today. I read it 2 hours ago

That is true, I don’t deny this.

was going to talk to our CM in the morning

I did not know your plans and you didn’t make it clear, so only rational assumption I could make from all of this is the one where I thought that such toxicity is acceptable in forums.

I actually agreed with what you said and I did say that publicly.

Yes, you did and I don’t deny this fact. This still doesn’t change what other fan of the game replied to me with and the lack of reaction to it before I made this post here on Massively.

And it is not my job to respond to every email that is sent to me

No, it is not, and I never claimed that it’s your job. It is still strange to see this lack of any response, even from people whose job it is, such as forum moderators. Including the previous posts I’ve reported, such as the one where other fan of the game was mocking the person complaining about refund. Or the post by another fan of the game in my old bug report thread, who replied with “How many other places did you post this video that would very clearly be under NDA?”, which I also reported back in April and which still exists. Go ahead, read that thread if you do not believe me.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

RU, that’s why I was going to talk to the CM in the morning. So using that as an example for why I’m a bad guy when:

1) I did read your message and did so after office hours
2) I acknowledged that your message in your post was a good one and that you and are were in agreement

But, again, I don’t think you can jump to the conclusion that because the head of the company didn’t respond to you with a “3 office hour” window = ignoring you. Well, you can jump to whatever you want, it’s your life. :)

And you also know that our Forum rules don’t allow for Forum PvP and you’ve been there long enough to know that what usually happens is that I let a snarky remark slide the first time. And as far as I know (this is why I was going to talk to the CM), this is the first time I’ve seen that Backer say anything negative to you. And as you know, you’ve directed a number of snarky remarks at CSE/me and you still have access to the Forums so…

And in terms of the mocking of the refund, I didn’t see that. I’ll ask about that in the morning as well. That remark is an uncool one and I wouldn’t tolerate it. But like I said, it is not my job to be a Forum mod and this is the first term I’ve heard of that one.

Edit – And when you say that you acknowledge that it is not my job to respond to every email but then say “Mark has read my message, I can see it because forums have this function where you can see if anyone read your direct messages. You know what Mark did? Absolutely nothing. ” and criticize me for it, those two things are at odds, especially given the time of the day.

Edit2 – And our Community is far less toxic than it used to be which is due to the fact that we have folks helping out in CM and the new rules. I hate Forum PvP with a passion especially when it occurs between players. But again, you know that as you’ve been there when I’ve had to step in and ask people to “Play Nice” and then some people, including those that are defending CSE/me against other people, vanish for a bit. But again, you know that.

Reader
Rndomuser

But, again, I don’t think you can jump to the conclusion that because the head of the company didn’t respond to you with a “3 office hour” window = ignoring you. Well, you can jump to whatever you want, it’s your life. :)

Well, you did ignore me, until I made post here on Massively.

And as you know, you’ve directed a number of snarky remarks at CSE/me and you still have access to the Forums so

I am not trying to remove anyone’s access from forums and we are not discussing my behavior here and I am well aware of my posts you and moderators removed which were criticizing you and the game. I was discussing the lack of any response, positive or negative, to reports of obviously toxic posts by fans of this game. Posts including the ones which were made long time ago.

and criticize me for it, those two things are at odds, especially given the time of the day

It is not at any odds. You are absolutely free to ignore any messages people send you on forums, that still doesn’t change the fact that you could’ve made a simple reply to the message with simple sentence like “I will reply to you tomorrow” or asked forum moderators to do this instead, you just chose not to do it. Which is again, something you’re always free to do but something I personally wouldn’t consider as “positive”. Whether you consider such behavior as acceptable for yourself – that is up to you and up to anyone else. I was pointing out my personal opinion based on my personal experience.

Reader
dinarian_

It may not be your job to email everyone a reply, so lets instead talk about something that is for sure your job…..PAYING THE REFUNDS!!!! It is without a doubt your job to actually pay the refunds you promised us in the terms and conditions and again and again publicly since the betrayal game announcement.

So I agree we should be talking about the things that are you job that you still won’t do.

I am on day 454 of waiting for my refund…have you even finished with 2/2020 yet? Now that the office is open and refunds are being sped up, how many refunds have been processed so far in June?

And just to be clear I am NOT talking about a 3 hour window, I am talking about a 454 day window.

Reader
Loyal Patron
Patreon Donor
Kickstarter Donor
Dean Greenhoe

It would sure be nice to see some “full game experience” this year.

Reader
Godnaz

Just my opinion from the outside looking in. I consider myself a regular reader here and have zero vested interest in Camelot Unchained aside from it providing more variety and choices to the genre. Without a doubt, this is the reason why developers don’t and sometimes shouldn’t respond publicly to monetary funding issues with their projects. This is exactly what a public relations department is for.

Dinarian just shined a huge light on what the developer thinks of its backers regardless of funding status. When this happens it literally just blows my mind to read this stuff. What a shitshow.

Reader
Gevatter

Are developers not allowed to defend themselves against false accusations?

Reader
Godnaz

I hardly call not refunding a backer in a timely manner a false accusation. Especially when the developer fully admits long delays and refunding pledge money.

Reader
Gevatter

The statement “not refunding a backer in a timely manner” is not the one MJ took issue with. He said:

You have every right to say that we have been slow but I have been doing refunds and just did a livestream when I was last in the office in May. So, please keep that in mind the next time you say that we are not paying any refunds.

Reader
Godnaz

I did not say that you were not issuing refunds, nor did I edit my post to reflect otherwise. You can keep defending your position on this, it makes no difference to me because I have not pledged. I am merely going off the statements made in this thread.

Reader
Harbinger_Kyleran

Spitting hairs to deflect from the real issue….

Reader
dinarian_

MJ does like to call me a liar, but people can check out the official reddit where there is an official thread dealing with refunds where publicly reported refunds are available to be seen. Also what can be seen in that thread is post after post after post of people still waiting for their refunds just like I am. Of course you won’t see me there or any of the vocal refunders because the new mod there banned everyone in a failed PR window dressing attempt to silence the pesky refund issue last year. From what I have been told it is the same thing on the official forums as well, page after page after page of people asking for their refunds that they have been owed since early last year, with no answers from CSE, no updates, and no new ETA or information at all. It is always the same. MJ is too precious to sit in an empty office alone to process refunds, computers don’t move, and continue to wait indefinitely. Meanwhile today is day 451 that I have been waiting for my promised in writing (in the terms and conditions) refund that MJ the self proclaimed very honest man owes to me, and so many others just like me.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

The worst mistake he ever made was being good enough to offer refunds.

Reader
dinarian_

Being “good” enough to offer the refunds is not in my opinion the issue. I think the trouble started when it turned out that MJ wasn’t good/honest enough to actually pay the refunds he promised/offered.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Estranged

This has gone on too long. Please stop.

Reader
Bruno Brito

For each Darkest Dungeon, we have 100 of the darkest projects, eh?

Reader
Harbinger_Kyleran

Not paying refunds?

Yep I agree.

Reader
David Ko

It was one of his selling points. I myself for example would never backed this if not for refund policy. It’s really interesting how can someone avoid legal actions for this.

Leo
Reader
Leo

Yeah I personally have thought it weird for devs to post in any way in the comment sections, but here, in the CU stories, it is really something else.

Reader
OneLeggedAdventurer_

You’re saying it’s not normal for the CEO of a company to show up in the comment section of a website, ask the publication to change their headline, and then berate their own customers and call them liars?

Reader
Mark Jacobs

OLA,

Actually, it’s quite typical for a company/person to ask/demand that a magazine, newspaper, writer, etc. make a correction to a story if they were misquoted or if the article contained inaccurate information. That’s where retractions, errata, etc. come in. Now, I could have done it the way it is usually done in the outside world by sending a lawyer’s letter and demand a retraction but that wastes money and is a threatening act. I simply and politely asked them to correct the inaccurate information. If MOP hadn’t done that, I would have left it at that since I had registered my disagreement with their headline. That way if somebody later on, as they will, quotes Chris that “MJ Promised XXX!” I could point them to my response. I can’t imagine that if you ran a company you’d be fine with one of the leading places in your industry misquoting you would you? And in my case, the word promise means something to me which is why I use it so rarely and why, in June, I will keep the promise I made about returning to the office and speeding up the refund policy.

The same is true for what I said in my first reply to Dinarian. She was stating highly inflammatory and incorrect information (that CSE has stopped paying refunds) and that I pointed out that what she was saying was a lie. Now, I could have done the same thing as per above, but I took the time to state the truth and then was willing to let it go at that. Again, the same rationale applies especially, as in the case cited, that other people have repeated the same thing. And given the anonymity afforded people by the Internet, responding to the person directly where they posted is pretty much the only way to do it or to ignore it.

Mark

Reader
dinarian_

Since you are so uncomfortable with us using publicly available information to figure out when/if the EXTREMELY OVERDUE refunds are being paid, then maybe you would like to provide us with the information that me and so many other people have asked.

Have you finished yet with refunds from 2/2020?
Have you finished with refunds from 3/2020?
How many refunds have you processed so far in 2021?
How many did you process in 2020?
How many are still left to process?
At what rate per week do you process refunds?
When do you predict that all refunds will be processed and fully caught up?

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

Just to be very clear here – it is very much not typical for the head of an MMO studio to post in the comments and request changes to articles. Typically, a PR person will email me.

As I noted, I still have no idea how someone could read that quote where CSE is recapping all the things that “will” happen this summer and not take that as the colloquial meaning of promise, regardless of whether the word is literally used and the swearing is carried out with blood and stone. I do not always alter our pieces when contacted, but since we had the head of the studio in here clarifying what he actually meant, I couldn’t see why we’d stick to our original interpretation.

Your comment was auto-modded for tripping the “maga” flag with magazine. It is approved now.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Bree,

Okay, let’s be clear about two things in your post:

1) You said “Just to be very clear here – it is very much not typical for the head of an MMO studio to post in the comments and request changes to articles.” Stephen from AoC just posted on MOP (and I expect you’d like him to continue), other heads of studios have also done the same in the past right? So someone senior posting on MOP isn’t what you are against right? If you want me gone, just say so as this is your site and if you ask, I will comply.

2) And in terms of “clarifying what he actually meant” or asking for a change, I asked you to use the exact word that I used and was quoted in the article (“…and we expect them all to be in the game before the end of the summer”). I didn’t ask you to clarify what I meant, just not to use a word that I didn’t use. I wrote exactly what I meant to write. This wasn’t a case of a person screwing up wording/statement and then asking for a favor. I simply asked that MOP use the same word that I used since the world “promise” was the lead for the article.

Mark

Reader
Bruno Brito

1) “Just to be very clear here – it is very much not typical for the head of an MMO studio to post in the comments and request changes to articles.” Stephen from AoC just posted on MOP (and I expect you’d like him to continue), other heads of studios have also done the same in the past right?

Stephen also shittalked Amazon because of leveling boosters of all things. Do you think that’s a normal thing for a CEO to do?

Don’t get me wrong, i rather have ten Sharifs than a single Kotick. At least Sharif’s heart is in the right place, and well…he has one.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

BB,

I won’t change my policy of not shit-talking other developers (or people), unless they do the same to me first, not even for you my friend. :)

That is a decades old policy of mine and I’ll stick to it almost always (I once criticized SOE for gold selling), thus never allowing people to know what I think about them or what they do. My job is to try to do what we are doing, not weigh in on other companies or their actions in almost all cases.

Mark

Reader
dinarian_

Is all of this more important today than putting time into refunds?

I am on day 451 of waiting in case you have forgotten because to me and so many like me it really seems like you have forgotten. How many refunds could you get in on a holiday when the office is otherwise empty?

Pepperzine
Reader
Pepperzine

For real rofl

Instead of wasting time doing the job of a CM or PR person, more refunds could have been processed.

Reader
Bruno Brito

Hey, don’t get me wrong man, i’m not saying you should shittalk devs. I’m saying that Sharif is not behaving on a normal stance either. If that’s good or bad, i leave up for personal choice.

What i think is that you being reachable is great. I have a lot of things to ask about MMOs in general and having an approachable dev with a good curriculum under his belt is a boon to gamers and researchers everywhere.

What i DON’T think is good, is that you speak for your company and your game, even if you think you don’t, and when you engage in the less-stellar parts of the debate, it brings your entire thing with you.

I rather have a 100 Marks than 10 Sharifs, and i rather have 10 Sharifs than a Kotick, but it doesn’t mean that it’s all flowers either. You can’t deny that CU is behind schedule, and you know it. I really think you would do good in getting a CM to help you sort better what and how to answer some things.

Despite Dinarian being a bit overzealous for my taste, her concerns are totally valid.

Reader
David Ko

We all know You only honor policy when it suits You.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

Sharif didn’t ask for a retraction. Nobody was talking about merely chatting in the comments, which is not atypical for some studios. We were talking about asking for retractions in the comments, which is typically done by PR in email.

I’m not telling you the reason you thought you were justified in asking for a correction. I’m telling you the reason I edited it. And that was because as I saw it, you were clarifying that when you say things like “By the end of the summer, Camelot Unchained will look and feel more like the game that you expected to see when you backed us than ever before,” nobody should take that as a promise.

Reader
Bruno Brito

tripping the “maga” flag with magazine.

You can’t fathom how much i hate the fact we actually need this auto-modding.

Reader
OneLeggedAdventurer_

Maybe it’s different in the gaming world but where I come from (film & television), that is very much not normal in any way. If I need an edit or a retraction to a story I have someone in the PR department privately contact the publication in question to resolve the issue. There is certainly no instance where it would be acceptable for any representative, let alone the CEO of the company, show up in the comment section of The Hollywood Reporter or wherever and start slinging demands and insults. That would pretty much be an instant-termination scenario.

Reader
David Ko

There is nothing normal about this company.

Reader
David Ko

Hahahaha You can’t make this up.

Reader
dinarian_

Speeding up the refunds sounds great but just to clarify when MJ says speed up does he mean there will be more or less than 1 refund a month happening going forwards? (5 a month?….dare I hope for 10 entire refunds a month?!?!?!? Okay I know I got carried away rofl that sort of race track speeds will never happen) I know that sounds like a low bar but doing any at this point would technically be speeding up and so the details really matter. Should we expect this ongoing refund catastrophe to be resolved by summer like the other things MJ is touting, before summer….sometime during 2021? By speed up does MJ think he will be done with refunds from 2/2020 before 2/2030?

As for me, I am on day 450 of waiting for a refund and I am still waiting.

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Thank you for lying again Dinarian when you say “I know that sounds like a low bar but doing any at this point would technically be speeding up and so the details really matter.”

You are consistent, I’ll give you that.

You have every right to say that we have been slow but I have been doing refunds and just did a livestream when I was last in the office in May. So, please keep that in mind the next time you say that we are not paying any refunds.

Again, be mad at me/us all you want but spreading absolute falsities such as above isn’t cool either.

Reader
dinarian_

Well of course the public reports of refunds do not tell the entire story, but they do tell a story and it is not one that makes it look very promising for anyone who like me is still waiting for their refunds. In my case just in case you have forgotten, I am on day 450 of waiting and I am still waiting. Of course we wouldn’t need to rely on public reports if you gave out updates. For example have you finished with the refunds from 2/2020 yet? How many refunds did you process in 2021 so far?

Reader
Mark Jacobs

Nope, haven’t forgotten, you’re on the list as well, I checked.

And in terms of how many I’ve processed in 2021, a lot more than you imply but implying something, especially with some snark, is not the same thing as stating something as a fact that isn’t true, so I didn’t have a problem with that part of what you said.

And in terms of numbers, I couldn’t tell you now even if I wanted to for the same reason I can’t process them from home, I have no access to all the data that I left on my work PC for privacy reasons. But, TBH, I wouldn’t respond to the question either way as I haven’t responded before as you know.

All that matters right now is whether I do what I promised to do when I said that I would reopen the offices and I would return there (it’s optional for the team and any who come in have to be vaxxed) as soon as it was safe-ish to do so after my family and I were double-vaxxed. I would have done it in May but as I’ve said here, on our livestream, Forums, etc., with the injuries/death of J’s mother and all the other crap that happened at the same time, that wasn’t possible.

Reader
dinarian_

So with still no answers or updates from you we are left with only the public reports which trickle in rarely, and a seemingly endless stream of people waiting for refunds who have day counts at 200, 300, 400++. And you still wont even tell us if you have or have not finished with the initial refunds, the ones from 2/2020.

If you don’t want people to rely on the public information, maybe you would like to tell us what date you have gotten to on that list of yours, and/or when you expect this little fiasco where you hold our money hostage for over a year to end?

Reader
Mark Jacobs

And now there’s the Dinarian I expected. First reasonable and then “hold our money hostage for over a year to end.”

Your money was spent on the game years ago Dinarian, just like anybody who backed when you did. You could say that we aren’t refunding, but your money, it’s in the game. I’ve said this over the same year and you know it to be true since we took in outside investors year ago and I explained this then.

Oh, and as far as the whole “It’s in the game thing” that’s a reason most of the KS don’t refund and I know of at least 1 or 2 who bake that rationale into their refund policy. I didn’t do that because I wanted people to be able to leave if they lost faith. I know you don’t care about that because it would detract from your personal attacks on me but that’s how it works for almost everybody else.

But hey, you are consistent. And now I’ll do my consistent thing and not respond to you anymore.

Reader
dinarian_

I would indeed call refusing to refund people for 450 days holding their money hostage. You see according to CSE’s terms and conditions I was to receive my refund in up to 90 days. All of the days since then you have been holding my money against my will, aka holding it hostage.

And again, since you really seem to want to deflect.

Have you finished the refunds from 2/2020 yet?

Reader
dinarian_

Also, to respond to your end bit.

“because I wanted people to be able to leave if they lost faith.”

The issue is, I and many like me DID lose faith after you kept the betrayal game a secret from backers for 1/2 a year. We were supposed to be able to leave if/when we lost faith, but you still haven’t refunded us. We are trying to leave, we have lost faith, the only issue is that for the last 450 you have failed to uphold your part of the deal and you know process the refunds so that the people who wanted to leave could do that there leaving that you say you want for us.

You say you want us to be able to leave, well your actions suggest that holding our money hostage is more your thing than wanting us to be able to leave.

I am on day 450 of waiting, I am not the only person waiting over a year or hundreds of days. You won’t even tell us if you are finished with 2/2020.

Reader
Bruno Brito

For the love of god man, get a CM.

Reader
Key_Avocado_2520

I find it a bit odd that you’d rather argue with her on a news website than just give her a refund. At a minimum your you vs dinarian_ spats has caused more PR issues for your product than it should. Each time you respond, you further dig yourself into a hole.

You’ve created a brigade of scorned fans that will follow you around until this project releases or dies.

Reader
Bruno Brito

As for me, I am on day 450 of waiting for a refund and I am still waiting.

I have cats younger than that.

Reader
psytic

I mean I paid like 50 bucks 8 yrs ago so no big deal really?? This could still turn out good if they make it more like a third person rather than isometric Albion Online. Still a path to a good pvp game here. I think they are better off charging for premium and (Xp and skill point earning boost) and cosmetics by allowing people to convert it from gold from cash or in game cash to gold. Nobodies paying a sub in 2021 and you just limit your player base.