New World’s faction PvP is rife with guild drama over ‘throwing’

    
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And again.

The problem with a three-faction territory control PvP game like New World is that, without some manner of balance adjustment, one of the three factions will seemingly always be on the back heel. That has been the case for the Covenant faction on the Minda server, and now, according to several players’ recounting of events, that faction now holds no territory on the map whatsoever thanks to a guild leader reportedly throwing the war that contested its last held zone.

The leader of a Covenant guild by the name of Jade reportedly took several steps to make the faction lose the territory of Mourningdale, including replacing the territory’s previous tier three siege equipment with nothing but horns, encouraging participants and members of his guild to go into the war without armor, and ignoring a full standby list of level 60 players who came to defend the territory, letting low level characters into the war instead. Several replies to the OP corroborate the events, with one Redditor sharing personal accounts of conversations with Jade and another poster providing a video of the war.

Why do all of this? Because evidently Jade was going to transfer servers and so he wanted to burn the Covenant down with him.

“Throwing the last region, of a marginalized faction, simply because a company leader is planning on switching servers is abhorrent and impacts all Covenant on the server. I implore AGS to investigate this issue and the behavior of this company. Mourningdale should be returned to a neutral status or given back to one of the other Covenant companies that are still playing on the server. Many, in this server, do not want to see this turn into a two-way faction fight; however, Jade decided he would throw it in a last ditch attempt to troll his entire faction before he quits the game/switches to another server.”

The Redditor who posted the thread goes so far as to state that Jade’s throwing of the match was a violation of New World’s code of conduct, which does indeed touch on the matter of match throwing:

“Do not: engage in behaviors that reduce or disrupt the enjoyment of the game for others. This includes spamming chat, griefing, throwing matches, boosting, win-trading, trolling, or spoiling the game by sharing unreleased or confidential materials.”

Furthermore, whether this was an actual thrown match could be up for debate, as it could be argued that Jade simply entered a sort of agreed upon truce. Furthermore, the definition of throwing a match isn’t expressly defined in the code of conduct – it could just as easily mean players don’t participate in a war whatsoever. Still, the matter has been raised on the official forums and the video of the war is available for viewing below. Be forewarned, the video quality is rather choppy.

We’ve previously covered how the three-way faction has become a two-party system on some servers and how guilds have been scamming their own members funding territorial takeovers. Suffice it to say, the drama is surely only just getting started.

sources: Reddit, official site (1, 2), thanks to Zelibeli for the tip!
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Ayreaux Gaming

Chris, thank you for picking up my Reddit post. One thing, however; would you please correct the paragraph that stated I said it was against the terms of service? I never did. In fact, in the first paragraph, I clearly cite the New World’s Code of Conduct. I’d appreciate the correction. Thanks.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

Thank you for the clarification – I’ve fixed that section!

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Ayreaux Gaming

Thanks bud!

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Anon Nomas

Sounds like this kind of behavior needs a lifetime IP ban.

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Ayreaux Gaming

Minda has been damaged beyond repair— without admin intervention. The gentleman was in chat, just tonight, bragging about how he is untouchable. Several large covenant factions are in the process of, or already have, swapped servers. The whole server has been impacted by his wonton desire to screw over his faction, and, now, the rest of us are faced with the predicament of staying on a two faction server.

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Kickstarter Donor
squid

Happened on mine as well. Company controlling two popular territories maxed the tax rates for a few days before transfers, threw the wars, then the company leader took all the gold and transferred.

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Adam Russell

TOS specifically states that it includes Code of Conduct, and COD says dont throw matches. And that this was a thrown match is not up for debate. Truces mean you dont declare war. Thrown matches mean you lose on purpose.

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SmiteDoctor

You guys decided on a MOP server?

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Bruno Brito

Considering the server mess, i don’t know. Will this game even have a MOP presence. It seems like ESO all over again where the game will be decent one year from now.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

Originally, several folks on the staff went to Minda, but once the queues made logging into it impossible, a bunch of us scattered. I’d like to go back to Minda eventually, but I don’t think anyone should pin their gaming plans on it. It’s a mess.

Fisty
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Fisty

Similar happened on mine. I’m pretty sure the Syndicate leader of Everfall tanked their defense, taking the guild monies with intentions of transferring off world. As of two days ago, the Syndicates have been taking a pounding. Now, the transfers are coming and most are going purple (of course), so once again the dynamic shifts. Oh, the drama. It’s really been a fun cluster to observe and take a tiny part in.

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angrakhan

I’ve seen rumors of this sort of thing being planned on my server where companies who had signed a treaty to help defend during a war plan on showing up and basically AFKing to throw the match in spite of their agreement to help. Pretty slimy but that’s how it goes in these open PvP games with politics. Your friend today is stabbing you in the back tomorrow.

Oh and this is fun. We had a purple company attack and take our territory. We then made a treaty with green to help get our territory back which was successful. So then the purple company all changed factions to green so that our green allies could no longer help. Fun times! Seems a bit exploitish but whatever.

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Ooph. In happier news it seems that peaceful diplomacy is working on some servers. Folks are negotiating with owners of some of the territories of the strongest faction in order to allow other factions to take it in order to spur PvP and make the game more fun for everyone. Which is the kind of rad, emergent gameplay that I think was hoped for in a way.

But man…transfers seem like a bit of a mess. Apparently there’s a gold duping bug going around, bugs around the AH after transferring, this mess…I’m glad I’m taking it very slow. But I wonder how much more dead my poor covenant are on my server now, we were at 0 territory last I played before transfers so I doubt our fortunes have improved :(

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Bruno Brito

Covenant is the weakest faction across the board and i don’t see that changing. I don’t know what happened but Syndicate is extremely strong and makes me believe there was some sort of player agreement prior to the launch.

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angrakhan

Seems like they need to implement some sort of bonus for the underdog faction. “Underdog” could be defined by active population, territory controlled, or both. The bonus could be xp bonus, crafting bonus, reduced upkeep, or all of the above. Right now there’s just no compelling reason to join the weakest faction, so why would anyone? Logical result is your 3-faction game functionally becomes a 2-faction game or even down to 1 if a server becomes too unbalanced.

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Yeah, there really needs to be big boosts to the less populated factions controlling fewer territories to either/both give them a chance at taking some territory every once in a while or encourage folks to move around a bit and balance out factions a bit more.

I don’t even much mind since I’m a pure PvE player (and am not sure if I’d be missing out on anything if I was in the faction that controlled the world, which I’m not -_-).

Despite the strong initial launch, the cracks in the design are starting to show and they’re starting to make some missteps (transfers being a bit of a mess atm). I hope they can get re-settled for the sake of the game, but either way I’m still happy logging in to go pick berries and chop down trees every now and then.

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treehuggerhannah

I don’t know, I suspect a lot of it is how the factions are themed versus some coordinated action.

If the options are:

1.) Crazed Religious Zealots
2.) Crazed Bloodthirsty Mercenaries
Or
3.) Miscellaneous

A lot of people are going to choose Option 3.

Unless you have a really strong character concept that fits into one of the other two, just the way Syndicate is presented seems to have broader appeal.

This applies extra given this particular historical setting and the iffy real life associations as baggage for 1 and 2.

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angrakhan

The syndicate is basically your illuminati reference, not “miscellaneous”. However, I agree that being a part of the Illuminati is more appealing to most than the inquisition or the raving barbarian horde.

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Bruno Brito

Only if you’re an heretic.

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

Doubtful. Probably some of it is streamers picking other factions and folks flocking to them, but on the basic themes alone it’s not terribly surprising. You have the cool warlike faction, you have the cool witch doctor-y faction that seems more sneaky and then you have…the religious zealots. Not super surprising that the religious zealot faction found less traction with folks.

I don’t much care about the themes, I just liked their cool witch hunter-y medium armor. Shame that ended up being a poor choice in the longrun : (

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Vanquesse V

I got saved by my love of plague doctor outfits.
I now realize that the faction armor is a waste of money and tokens but that’s beside the point

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Bruno Brito

Two words, my friend:

WITCH.

HUNTERS.

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Bruno Brito

Ok, but here’s what i don’t get: I’m certain that Covenant was the most populated faction in the betas. The switchup was really fast and it was on ALL servers, so it’s really weird.

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Vanquesse V

covenant seemed to be the biggest faction in both of the pre-launch tests I attended. (the one last year, and the closed beta), so I assume that this knowledge made even more people join team purple for launch.
When I was playing yesterday (on Minda, no less) it was purple 7, green 4, yellow 0 in terms of territory control.
As Angrakhan also points out, it’s crazy that no incentives are in place to attempt some kind of faction balance.

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Jeremy Barnes

It’s not hard to figure out.. ‘scientists’ vs. ‘churchies’

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Bruno Brito

See. This is the heretical mentality. Moral compass will always triumph over reckless pursuit of dangerous and honestly useless knowledge.

Also, my armorset is better than yours >:c SO IS MY COLOR.

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Arktouros

The entire 3 way PvP concept has always been flawed since it’s inception. The romanticized theory is if one faction gets too strong then the other two factions will team up against it. However it has never worked that way in practical game play purposes (outside of just random circumstance) and virtually all cases you end up with one strong faction, one secondary faction, then a third weak faction that the other two just kick around for easy points/score.

Giving everyone a free server transfer was invariably bound to completely destroy any semblance of faction balance on servers. You’ve given people about 3-4 weeks of a taste of how things are going to shake out on their server and like rats people will abandon sinking ships and hop servers where they’re more likely to be successful (IE: switch to a server where their faction is already winning). This isn’t a new concept or was unpredictable as people have been doing this now for over a decade when it’s come to server swaps. Some genius game dev decided that those who own territory get more bonuses so it just incentivizes people piling up and painting the map a single color.

At least people are starting to see and understand what I mean when I say the devs are completely and totally incompetent when it comes to any kind of PvP balance or game design. Like they just have no forethought into what any of their decisions they make will predictably have on the impact for the rest of the game. All they know how to do is pump out PvE theme park content like generic kill 10 [thing] quests and stale scripted dungeon content that’s tired after the second run. If you’re playing this game for anything other than that then you’ve chosen the road to disappointment.

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

“The entire 3 way PvP concept has always been flawed since its inception. The romanticized theory is if one faction gets too strong then the other two factions will team up against it.”

I think if you just throw three sides into a map and call it done, this is what happens. But that’s not the only way to do RvRvR. Doing it well requires a whole lot of pushing and pulling and intervention from the developers to keep it moving – huge incentives, buffs, randomization, resets, win states, NPC allies, rewards, and so forth. As you note, this is not something Amazon appears to have done effectively, for many reasons.

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Kickstarter Donor
Greaterdivinity

I’m a WvW noob in GW2 but…doesn’t it mostly work? I know it’s got tons of issues and there are WvW zergs and whatnot, but my recollection is that the system at least like…mostly worked when linked servers weren’t massively imbalanced in terms of WvW populations.

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Arktouros

Yes and no.

For the bulk of the years WvW existed most of the PvP is fairly static in where servers are, so most of the match ups each week are just repeats of the same outcomes. So like server 1-2-3 usually fights then server 4-5-6 does their own match etc. However 3 is usually too strong for 5-6 and if they go down they completely obliterate 5-6 and 4 is usually too weak for 1-2 and gets obliterated themselves until they fall back down. Honestly most people on those weeks just didn’t even bother playing cause they knew it was a guarnateed loss cause 1-2 would just chain take their stuff. However servers didn’t always go up/down so sometimes it was okay, sometimes not. Different brackets also had people with different focuses, like Bracket 3 usually had a lot of GvG guilds in it at one point who didn’t care at all about points or score and just did big GvG fights of like 20v20.

I think at some point they did as Bree talked about an intervened and now each week someone is always going up-down which created a lot more movement and the server pairings also infused a lot of dead servers into populated ones which made everything a lot more active as well. So manual intervention can help for sure. However we also have to recognize the rather unique scenario that GW2 has in terms to it’s WvW system as players are tied to servers that are matchmade which puts them on factions rather than factions on a static server that impacts the day-to-day game play due to territory ownership etc because GW2’s entirely all separate.

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Schmidt.Capela

My experience with GW2’s WvW is that whoever is winning by the end of the first 12 hours of the match-up almost always wins in the end, because players of the other two servers often just don’t queue when their servers are already losing.

I mean, when my server was ahead I saw few, if any, players from the other servers; I got 100% map completion in the WvW maps by just going there while my server was ahead, and I never actually faced opposition. And when my server was behind it was always a hopeless struggle against overwhelming odds.

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Arktouros

I moved to BlackGate when it was a T2 server after Eredon then Henge blew up intially and basically came back to it being in a T1 server. In the T1 bracket things are usually decided by Monday evening, not the first 12 hours, and if anything the first 12 hours don’t mean jack on a T1 server match. Then the rest of the week things regularly died off as guilds gave their members a break to do PvE content or farm or whatever for the upcoming matches. The only way I got world completion done was when they started randomly rotating colors and we stopped being green every week.

So again you can see the experiences are going to vary based on brackets even, with naturally the “top” bracket being most competitive for longer.

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Bruno Brito

T1 matchup servers are awful for roaming, or at least those were the issues that most roamers had. A lot of WvW players on the forums went to mid-tier servers because the fights seemed more competitive and fun than the 100v100 zerg fights in T1 ( been a part of those back at my JQ days ) on the pirate ship meta.

Then, server linking came, and while it did improve competition, it actually changed a lot of the scene for small scale fighting.

Also, correct if i’m wrong, but small scale fighting is not something usual in GW2 because the rewards are awful.

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Bruno Brito

GW2 has a huge problem with off-hours flipping, it had some server collusion stories and it’s “functional” but it’s not really a good system.

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Arktouros

I mean theoretically speaking you’re not wrong, but it’s still entirely theoretical because game companies who design 3 way faction PvP systems don’t put enough effort to design any of the things you suggest could fix it.

The closest example of what you’re talking about is probably GW2 with it’s weekly resets and match making system which ensures servers aren’t always matched up the same each week as it resets. In the past this has created some temporary alliances where two servers will gang up on the top server, but it never lasts and usually the top server is back on top a week or two later.

However the vast majority of games from DAoC, Planetside 1/2, The Secret World, Elder Scrolls, Guilds War 2 for the most part all really are very “hands off” approach when it comes to their PvP and just letting players blob up on certain factions and any semblance of balance in PvP be damned. Which then because the devs have basically abandoned the content the players also abandon the content which then justifies the devs not spending time on the content and then you get snide commenters who say see PvP was never worth it and it’s just like…

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Rndomuser

The entire 3 way PvP concept has always been flawed since it’s inception.

It is. And no amount of “incentives” or “buffs” will fix that, not to mention there will ALWAYS be people complaining that those “incentives” and “buffs” are either too strong or too weak, ALWAYS. The “forced 3 factions” or even “forced 2 factions” should not exist in any modern MMORPG when it comes to PvP and instead a game should allow players to create their own factions, as many as they want to. It is still theoretically possible for players to form a “mega faction” and take over the whole territory but so far I haven’t seen that happen in EVE Online’s Tranquility server.

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Arktouros

It happens in most PvP games that allow for player alliances. A great example would be like on Atlas PvP servers and Albion but they are notoriously difficult to keep together. Egos and all that. But they survive long enough to do their damage and run most smaller groups off who bristle at the idea they will have to “nut cup” and ally with larger groups and such and quit instead.

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Schmidt.Capela

Peace is more profitable than war.

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Keith Rogers

Unless you’re a Congress person or anyone at Lockheed

Bree Royce
Staff
Bree Royce

Yeah I can’t really see how if the objection to forced 3-way is supposedly an insurmountable imbalance that moving to organic factions is any better at solving that. It’s worse, tbh, since developers lose their only lever on the situation, and they’ll lose players in the interim. And it happens in open PvP games without formal territory too. I’m honestly baffled at the supposition that EVE isn’t controlled by a handful of mega factions – it most definitely is. You’re not gonna save PvP by letting the worst warlord-types run away with it.