If you’re a fan of extraction shooters but want more high-fantasy RPG elements then I’ve got something in store for you: Legacy: Steel and Sorcery, an upcoming multiplayer third-person extraction game that we first reported on during Steam Next Fest last fall. Even better, we’ve had the opportunity to interrogate Chris Kaleiki on the game – he’s founder of Notorious Studios and a Blizzard alum before that. Legacy has so many of the elements of a strong PvP-oriented game that I was extremely excited to dig in for this week’s Fight or Kite PvP column!
MassivelyOP: Let’s begin by focusing on the gameplay of Legacy: Steel & Sorcery. How would you describe the game to new players just hearing about Legacy: Steel & Sorcery?
Notorious Studios’ Chris Kaleiki: I think the short answer is a PvPvE Fantasy RPG Extraction game. However, the vision of the game is to really encapsulate World PvP gameplay found in most fantasy MMOs like Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, Dark Age of Camelot, etc. There are a lot of games I would describe as “world PvP” in the market today (such as Escape from Tarkov or extraction shooters or even battle royale games), but not a lot of fantasy RPG ones, which is odd since that was the progenitor of the gameplay experience.
Looking through your Steam page, I get the general idea that players leave a lodge to explore the open world in parties up to three players and the world can host up to 24 players. Is that still the case? Are players queuing up to join a shared instance where they all search and compete over loot or is the world more persistent than that?
That’s right, players manage their inventory, craft new items at vendors and interface with other progression systems like the Lodge in a UI experience. They then can queue up for adventures solo or with 2 others (in a group of 3) in instanced/session maps that can have up to 24 players. We do plan on experimenting with more persistent maps (rather than instanced session ones) in the future, but shorter 30-minute sessions make the most sense with the PvPvE gameplay as it is right now.
Is there a shared, non-combat lobby where all sorts of players exist and interact with one another or is it something else entirely?
For early access, we won’t have a shared social space in the world just yet, but it is something we have planned.
Could you give me a bit more info about the lodge and how players interact with it? Is it almost like a housing system? I read that you’ve recently added some cooking recipes and other buff mechanics.
The Lodge is not a 3D space but a UI experience. Players can unlock different “furnishings” such as the Bed where you earn rested experience, the Fireplace which fuels the Lodge, the Storage Chest which increases how many Stash tabs you have, and so on. Recently we added a new experimental one called the Ossuary where players can place bones, monster parts and even player ears (tokens you loot for kills) into it for a vendor reputation buff.
When I’m thinking about games I want to play for the evening, I typically split it up mentally depending on what I’m in the mood for. Maybe I want to do a full world dive with friends in Guild Wars 2 or amp myself up with some intense PvP, or maybe I’ve only got 15 minutes free, so I’ll play a couple of quick Rocket League matches. Where do you see Legacy falling in terms of players’ mind share?
It’s an interesting question because I think the charm of a game like ours is that players can really adjust the type of experience based on what they’re feeling. For example, they can equip some lower-level armor and play a Rogue or Priest and try to loot herbs or crafting materials for a more chill session, or they may put on their best gear and hunt other players down. Similar to how in battle royale games where you can win the game without ever shooting your gun, you can accomplish a lot in Legacy simply by going around and looting gear, extracting and progressing your Lodge without ever swinging your sword.
What sort of gameplay loop is the primary driver for players? Is it collecting more and more powerful gear and loot? Or maybe it’s the rush of a near death PvP battle?
PvP creates a tense, exciting environment as a backdrop (what some players call “gear fear”) but in reality looting and progression is the sticky, main loop of the game. Our game is not an “arena” or “elimination” style PvP game, or even a tactical objective-based PvP game like CTF or an MMO battleground. It really is similar to an open-world PvP zone in an MMO with a series of rich crafting and progression systems. PvP creates some interesting stories and moments, but the driver is the progression loot systems.
What sort of progression exists for players? Do players gain new levels and skills or just better gear? Keying off that, do players have skill trees for customizing their builds or will every Hunter have the same skills and abilities as every other Hunter?
We consider Legacy an RPG so it does include standard RPG mechanics like leveling and questing. Leveling in our game, however, is more a device to gradually introduce mechanics to the player and less-so a primary progression driver. Players level up vendors who can craft more powerful (horizontal and vertical) items and gear. To do so, players complete “quests” on the quest board to gain reputation with the vendors, as well as simply crafting and selling items to them.
Items are really important in Legacy because each item has a unique “Perk”. This is how players create their own builds for their class.
During early access we will also have specific quest lines for vendors, and a seasonal “chronicle” which is essentially a seasonal story quest line that culminates in an epic boss encounter.
Are there levels and level caps in the game? Has there been any consideration to the different stages of a player’s development in game from early gameplay to endgame content? For instance, when you’re first starting out, everything is shiny, new, and exciting. What sort of content do you have planned for endgame players? Or is there no difference between them?
The level cap for a player character is 20. As players level up, new functionality and features will unlock such as new furnishings in the Lodge or new vendors. As we add more maps during early access, those, too, will unlock as players level up and progress. The intent is that at endgame players will engage in more difficult maps with new challenging creature encounters, including bosses.
I know that one of the biggest turn offs for me as a new player is joining a game and getting immediately stomped by more experienced players. What can players expect their first experiences in the game to be like?
That is something very top of mind with the studio right now. I worked on WoW for 14 years, and interestingly it never had a specific tutorial until over a decade into its life.
And so the initial experience for a player in Legacy will be to be put into a tutorial “farm” map called Goldbrook. It is a different type of map that is non-linear and sandboxy, so players can go around and learn how they please. They can even skip it all and run right to the extract if you think you’re that type of gamer. But it is single player and PvE only, so players can stick around and fight creatures and learn their class kit at your own pace until you’re ready to hop into the PvPvE experience.
As a new player, I definitely do not want to regularly run across higher leveled characters. At the same time, as much fun as rolling over new players is, eventually that gets dull too. If there’s little to no difference in the gameplay from a new to endgame player, what sort of distinction is there?
Our goal is to essentially have “level bands” within the Adventure sessions, so you should see players who are around your same level of progression and game experience. However, this will vary depending upon the availability of such players in the queue. We have intentionally designed the combat and progression to have a lot of “horizontal” progression rather than steep vertical power, so the differential between a max-level payer and a new player is a lot more reasonable.
Is Legacy meant to be played primarily solo or with a party?
I think the best experience in most games that do have multiplayer is playing with friends, and we’ve designed the classes and combat to make it enjoyable for playing in a squad. We have this core pillar of “Better Together” which will become more pronounced as we go through Early Access with additional social features (like guilds etc.). However, the game can also be played solo and we find that the most popular mode (for now).
Would you say that players who are not regularly playing in a party would generally be disadvantaged?
There is a dedicated solo-only queue where you’re matched with only other solo players. So if you play that mode, it’s pretty balanced (other than some rock/paper/scissors of classes). The second mode we have is what we call “Mixed” where it supports solo, duo or trios. If you queue solo here, you will be at a disadvantage vs, say, a group of trios. However, we’ve noticed that some solo players can overcome groups, and that creates fun, exciting moments.
What about guilds? Are there ways for players to interact or communicate beyond the three player party?
For Early Access we don’t have the guild feature in; however, it is something we’ve designed and planned out for Early Access. The vision of the guild feature is that it will feature a social version of the Lodge (the “Guild Hall”) that would let players collectively contribute resources and level up its own furnishings.
Switching gears a little bit, for those less familiar with yourself and Legacy: Steel & Sorcery, could you tell me a bit about your background in the industry and how that led you to founding Notorious Studios and development of Legacy?
I was previously at Blizzard Entertainment and worked as a Game Designer on World of Warcraft for 14 years. I did primarily class design (making spells, talents, etc.) but also worked on PvP features like battlegrounds, arenas and other content for the game. The studio has a number of devs who also worked with me at Blizzard on WoW. I founded Notorious as a way to keep some of the talented devs I worked with together after we all had the desire to work on something new. We have a lot of interest in worldbuilding and fantasy as well, which you can find a lot in Legacy.
With all that MMO cred, having previously worked for Blizzard on World of Warcraft for many years, throughout many of their best expansions; you decided not to build an MMO. Instead, you and the team chose to build Legacy: Steel & Sorcery’s as an extraction shooter. Did you always know that your next project would be an extraction shooter or did it begin to develop that way after you’d built up much of the underlying systems? Could you describe some of the choices and reasoning behind this decision?
The question I think about is: what is the best way to describe this type of game? Lately, I’ve been thinking about calling it an “mMMORPG” or “Mini MMORPG.” The biggest difference between a mini and traditional MMO being the smaller scale, more streamlined experience but no evergreen progression or economy. Other games in this bucket would be something like Destiny 2, POE2, Tarkov, Warframe or even V Rising.
Personally, balanced PvP is typically at the top of my list, but I know a lot of other MMO gamers love housing, crafting, and exploration. What sort of features within Legacy do you think will really click with these players?
I think the combat feels unique and innovative, which was actually the origin of the idea of the game. I tried at Blizzard to make WoW work better on a controller and then instead started to redesign the combat system. It started as very Soulslike, but then I started adding in spells and abilities and other mechanics and it turned into its own thing. Legacy is very similar to the exploration I did at Blizzard.
Not only can the combat be conducive to a controller, but I do think it is the next step in the realization of “fantasy RPG combat.” If you think about it, fantasy RPG combat started with pen and paper with D&D, then turn-based, then realtime with point and click and WASD. But the ultimate realization of fantasy RPG combat, to me, is that when you Block it actually blocks, it isn’t a dice roll or damage calculator. Same with Evade (or Dodge), etc. And so that’s what we did with Legacy. IMO, it is the next step after WASD tab-targeting combat that we’ve mostly been stuck with in multiplayer RPGs for the past decade.
Are there any other game modes or ways of playing that you have in mind? Could players queue up into direct arena brawls or similar game types?
We have an arena mode that we’ve had players test that has a lot of promise. We intend to introduce that as a mainline feature during early access. We also have some other interesting game modes that we’re going to introduce that I think really are only possible with the type of combat system and core experience that Legacy has. But it’s too soon to talk about those just yet!
Currently, the game offers some core fantasy classes – the warrior, hunter, priest, and rogue. So one last question – can you tell us if there are any other classes planned or even in development already?
We have announced that we plan on introducing a Wizard and then Paladin class. It really irks me that we couldn’t get the Wizard in for Early Access (it is called Legacy: Steel & Sorcery, after all), but we hope to get it in shortly after release. After those two classes, we have a number planned, some traditional that players would expect but some that are twists or somewhat original. As always, we’re really interested in what players would like to see next!
I’d like to give a huge thanks to Chris Kaleiki for answering all our questions and everyone at Notorious Studios for their help! I can’t wait to see what more’s to come for Legacy: Steel and Sorcery when it lands in early access, but for now, you can wishlist it on Steam.
Every other week, Massively OP’s Sam Kash delivers Fight or Kite, our trip through the state of PvP across the MMORPG industry. Whether he’s sitting in a queue or rolling with the zerg, Sam’s all about the adrenaline rush of a good battle. Because when you boil it down, the whole reason we PvP (other than to pwn noobs) is to have fun fighting a new and unpredictable enemy!
