Chronicles of Elyria hunts for a publisher, enables store gifting, and battles ‘harbingers’

A year ago, Chronicles of Elyria had crossed $2 million in fundraising. Today, that amount sits at over $3.4 million. Still, some players worry that the game might not have enough in its coffers to get the big release that it should, especially without the backing of a publisher.

While Soulbound Studios was touting its independence from publishers back in September, the studio’s CEO allegedly is trying to shop the game around and is finding difficulty in selling the sandbox’s concept. “During last nights multi-hour impromptu Q&A, [Jeromy Walsh] expressed some frustration in his attempts to market Chronicles of Elyria to potential publishers,” one forum poster reported (the Q&A chat room is a locked voice chat). “He described publishers that refused to read his eight-page comparison of COE to other MMOs, publishers that wanted loot crates and micro-transactions, and publishers simply not understanding the appeal COE has for so many.”

Incidentally, Chronicles of Elyria has enabled gifting through the website’s store through the end of the month. Fans can purchase select items to gift to friends out of the goodness of their hearts.

On Discord this week, Walsh also explained how his studio and followers should deal with negativity about the game online. In fact, he even has a name for people who “try and spread the skepticism.”

“We recognize that people have skepticism, and we’d never encourage people to back the game, purchase a pledge package, or accept that we’re making a perfect game. That said… in no other business/industry is it acceptable to walk into peoples’ place of business/establishment and encourage customers NOT to purchase or get excited about the product. You’d simply be escorted out.

“We’re a crowdfunded game – at least for the moment. That means that our revenue stream is based on community sentiment. When people go around the internet discouraging others from being interested in our game, or intentionally creating skeptics, they’re attacking us directly, and making it more difficult for us to complete the game. That’s not beneficial to anyone. That – is what I refer to as a Harbinger. Someone who, for whatever reason, intentionally or unintentionally is sewing seeds of doubt, mistrust, and skepticism in others. Doing so doesn’t benefit anyone, least of all those of us who are here working hard to make this game – both developers and the community.

“So what I was discussing on Discord the other day was for you guys, the community, to shut down such behavior. We can’t be everywhere at once, nor does it look good for us to try and discourage such behavior. But we can encourage you guys to shut down such behavior. Remind people that it’s perfectly fine to be skeptical.. but to try and spread the skepticism is bad.”

Update: Soulbound’s Kaizen has posted a comment clarifying these remarks and where the studio stands on skeptics down below our article.

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74 Comments on "Chronicles of Elyria hunts for a publisher, enables store gifting, and battles ‘harbingers’"

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Solaris
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Solaris

I can’t disagree with what Walsh is saying here. He’s right. It’s like the whole controversy around Star Wars and people tanking Rotten Tomatoes because the film’s story didn’t go the way they wanted it to. Yeah you have an opinion. You have a right to that opinion. You hated Star Wars. So?! Why are you on a crusade to keep others from watching it? Like you are some sort of public service champion? Please.

You can be skeptical and not support a project. But to go and constantly try and tank a project that you really have no interest in say alot about you as a person. And it’s not good.

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Daniel Miller

I really have no idea what the gossip is about. Sure I backed this, $35 package. But I back many things. I avoid forums, websites and drama til game is released though. I don’t desire to hype myself on a vision vs a product.

But seems the dev is having problems with his game and also communicating to pubs i guess.

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Crowe

I don’t think that guy actually understood “harbinger” doesn’t mean that.

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Sally Bowls

Fast-forward 24 days and it turns out the “doubt, mistrust, and skepticism” were, in fact, harbingers.

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Dro Gul

Simply awesome

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Robert Mann

I can… see having difficulties avoiding plague-boxes, and getting big money interested in anything that isn’t a trend-chaser. That said, I’m not sure how much avoiding lootboxes is worth after going off the deep end with crowdfunding tiers.

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Paragon Lost

“Still not making a personal attack. ” -CMDR ShrunkenQuasar

And yet Bree felt that she had to delete two of your posts. You are doing something wrong here if she did so. Whether it’s making a personal attack (which is one of the things that would cause her to delete your post) or violating the posting rules in some other way.

You obviously aren’t getting it and since Dro Gul made mention of personal attack in the post above, I’m putting my money on the personal attack violation.

Feel free to be critical of what the person says and say why you feel so, but don’t dip into personal attacks against the poster. It lessons any valid point you actually might have.

Also, I’ve seen comments directed at Bree and the site that the article was a “hit piece” from one of the posters, Tyler Eastway. Is he one of your community that’s bringing a smile to your face? If so, then I’d not be smiling, Bree and this sites writers don’t do hit pieces.

Anyhow I don’t have oar in the water with this mmorpg, I only keep up on it because it’s always interesting to read about mmorpg development. That said, you and yours aren’t doing your mmorpg a favor with how you all are behaving. It reminds me of the Star Citizen folks who come here and go off the deep end. YMMV.

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Dro Gul

That’s just it. When a dev tells his fans to go shut down criticism this is the result. It’s a lose/lose proposition because it paints the games community in a bad light by associating with these attacks. Common sense says that if you come to a site and attack other people and complain about the site you are going to be received poorly.

Their behavior is exactly what Caspian complained about in his first quote yet that is exactly what he has unleashed. If it’s not acceptable for him to do it himself it’s just simply not acceptable to do it. Case closed!

Anyone who thinks Bree and MassivelyOP are out to make their game look bad are so off base it’s not even funny.

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Paragon Lost

Ugh, my reply to Commander ShrunkenQuasar just ended up at the top of the thread. I really dislike that, I tend to avoid the crazy threads anymore which usually you see only in SC. I guess I can add CoE to that type as well. I guess the thread further down got deleted in whole.

Anyhow, agree on your points Dro Gul.

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Dro Gul

The arrogance of these guys is staggering: Go forth and fight against those who would spread doubt against the Word!!

Did anyone else catch his statement in the video below that he expects hundreds of thousands of players on each of his 5 servers? Yes some people suck it right up and ask for more.

Simply amazing.

Chronicles of Elyria
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Chronicles of Elyria

Hey, all! Kaizen from Soulbound Studios here. We encourage everyone to voice their opinions and we appreciate that people are doing so.

We’d like to clarify a few things: it’s not unreasonable to be skeptical about our game, no one is saying otherwise, and you should definitely form your own opinion about Chronicles of Elyria. Everyone has their own perspective, and sharing those opinions in a healthy, constructive way is good for the industry!

As a consumer, you should form your own thoughts and opinions about our product, outside of the influence of others. Take Star Wars: The Last Jedi, for example – everyone has an opinion about the movie. Should you let their viewpoint inform yours without seeing the film? Perhaps, but people who’ve seen the movie can have a much more constructive conversation about the franchise than those who haven’t.

We’re in a different situation in that we’re currently in pre-Alpha. We’ve always promised transparency, and we always welcome a two-way conversation, even if that conversation includes skepticism. We’re comfortable with questioning the status quo because we’re trying to solve problems currently inherent in the MMORPG space.

Chronicles of Elyria is committed to its community and delivering something of value to the industry as a whole, so we encourage folks to help us build a new breed of MMO and tell a new success story about how a little indie studio with big dreams and big heart beat all the odds and ushered in a new age for RPGs. So if you want to connect with us, please join our Discord or forums and keep us on the right track!

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drelkag

From my involvement in the MMO community it seems there’s a large group that is always looking for the next MMORPG but at the same time nitpicking even the most minor issues (whether the complaint comes from personal experience or just hearsay) for a reason to pass on the game. To be honest I think they’re more happy repeating this cycle than actually playing an MMO.

I can understand the frustration putting so much work into a product just to have that audible group come down on the game and see no harm from encouraging those who enjoy your product to share their experience.

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CMDR ShrunkenQuasar

I think that has to do with the fact that many MMO players seem to be rabidly territorial. If you aren’t playing their game, then you’re playing the wrong game. It’s gotten to the point that I usually don’t even discuss MMOs with gamers, because the whole topic is as poisonous as politics.

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Dro Gul

Huge difference between sharing your experience like you say and sending fans out to “shut down” skeptics.

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drelkag

What’s the huge difference?

From my understanding he wasn’t talking about usual skepticism but the people I pointed out in my above comment.

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Dro Gul

One has you talking about your experience. The other has you shut down someone else’s. If you don’t see the huge difference there I can’t help you.

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Drake Ordanska

I see your still touting the same line without trying to debate drelkag’s point.

He clearly states as I do if you compare Caspian’s comment in the video to the discord one you can draw a conclusion that he means shut down the haters not shut down anyone with a negative point to make.

But that conclusion doesn’t fit your narrative about Caspian or SBS so you will obviously come up with a conclusion to suit yourself.

To anyone not stuck in an opposing view on the game I would advise you to watch the video and do your own research don’t trust me or Dro Gul.
Find out about the game and I hope you will grow to love the concept as I do faults and all.

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Dro Gul

We saw an example of it live on this very blog when fans had to be moderated and deleted for vile posting and even attacking MassivelyOP. That is exactly what he has unleashed, and if it was a mistake he should call back his fans and explain to them that their behavior reflects poorly on the community. Again, if it would look bad for him to do it himself, it shouldn’t be done.

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Drake Ordanska

and if I remember correctly on the last article a whole line of thread got deleted due to either you or another in the CoE hating camp stooping to personal attacks.

Your camp is no better, the only difference is in the Coe forums people are shown friendship especially those that are new to the game.

I mean what other communities do you know that buy pledge packs for strangers?

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drelkag

Again, he was referring to the types of commenters I mentioned in my above post. Am I missing where he lumped the usual skepticism in with them?

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Dro Gul

And who decides that? Is it a committee in Discord that sends out the Anti-Harbringers to shut down the hate?

It’s a joke. If the developer admits it wouldn’t look right for him to do it why would he encourage others to do it?

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Sray

You called on your backers to literally go out to other sites and shut down criticism, because it wouldn’t look good for you to do it yourselves.

So what I was discussing on Discord the other day was for you guys, the community, to shut down such behavior. We can’t be everywhere at once, nor does it look good for us to try and discourage such behavior. But we can encourage you guys to shut down such behavior.

That quote is literally something you said. You gave a blanket label to crtics, whether they had valid points or not, and then you pointed your loyal subjects at them and said “attack”. Where is your retraction of that statement? Where are you telling your backers to not do that?

Furthermore, part of your statement here amounts to “if you haven’t played the game, your opinion is largely worthless”. A person doesn’t need to have played a game to have a valid criticism of a publicly stated business plan, the ability to find additional funding, or very valid doubts of the ability of a studio to build a low budget game with full features in an expensive to develop game genre.

Your statement here is meant to mollify, but is just a more pleasant sound reiteration of what you said, and at no point do you admit that you’ve crossed a line by telling your backers to shut down any criticism.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

Hey Sray, to clarify, the original dev who said it is the CEO (Caspian). If my GoogleFu is on target, Kaizen is a Senior Community Producer. So the original statement wasn’t technically his.

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Sray

Ok, technically not him, so I am wrong in that particular sense. His boss said it, which doesn’t make any of this any better. Kaizen might not have made the statement himself, but as the face of the company in this interection, I have no issue with still saying “you did this” to him. Kaizen might not have directly said these things, but his statement was mainly a reiteration of what was said in an “acceptable” tone, that had still no mea culpa for grossly unprofessional behaviour.

There wasn’t a “we realize this was a very bad thing, and it happened because [lack of sleep, stress induced emotional breakdown, reaction to vertigo medication, insert literally any excuse here]; and wow… do we ever not encourage our backers to do this sort of thing”. The CEO gave a label to critics -which was defined as anyone who intentionally or unintentionally might “damage” them by questioning what they’re doing- and then “encouraged” a group of the most dedicated followers to “shut down such behaviour”. He essentially instructed fans to go out and behave like the fanatically crazed Star Citizen backers do every time a slightly critical post arises. That’s the behaviour of a demagogue, and that needs to be called out.

I do have sympathy for the unfortunate community manager that has to come along after and try to clean up the mess. However as I said, his statement is largely just a more polite version of what was said with no real remorse, or corrective action taken.

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Dro Gul

Well said. What this guy did was reprehensible. And the sad part is that when his supporters come and behave like they did in the now deleted attacks it just reflects poorly on the whole community.

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Dro Gul

Excellent points. If it doesn’t look good to do it yourself why would it look good to send someone else to do it?

Utterly arrogant.

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Armsbend

You shouldn’t worry so much about spreading skepticism in this enlightened age. Everyone is free to see it for themselves and everyone is so intelligent that they couldn’t possibly be influenced beyond what they try for themselves. Surely one or two naysayers couldn’t possibly influence or spoil the whole bunch!

Having decades upon decades of gaming experience across all genres couldn’t possibly understand a game without playing it and people will know this.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

Thank you for your clarifications, Kaizen, and happy holidays to your studio.

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Fady Galaband

I was present in this Q&A with the developer and I personally approve whole-heartedly in what he was trying to convey. Despite what this article wrote, he was not asking for people not to be honest with their critical feedback On this game. It’s 100% acceptable to point out possible design flaws or things that you think may not make it to the final floor.

What he was talking about is what I see everywhere there are MMOs. There are people who are not happy to just voice their opinion on a game, but feel they need to recruit as many other people as possible to attack the game as well. I see this everywhere on the internet where people are not happy unless they feel they gained some sort of attention.

If there is constructive criticism, then please provide it. But if it turns into just complaining about a product that you may not even be interested in, then state your peace and go find something that fits your needs better. There’s no need to pull everyone else down with you.

I personally think Chronicles of Elyria is really pushing the envelope on what we see in MMOs. It is the dream game that I’ve waited my whole life to play. I’m patiently optimistic that this game will be as great as I’m hoping it will be, and if not…then I will go back to the drawing board and find something that is. But I WILL NOT sit here and complain that it wasn’t what I hoped for.

(Rant over) 😜

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Tyler Eastway

I am the forum posted reported here and I must say this is a pathetic piece of writing. What COE is doing in regards to publisher is completely normal. What is different is that, as a crowd funded product with a very open team Caspian has been kind enough to comment on what otherwise would be hidden behind the scenes. I saw an opportunity to contribute to the effort and made a post suggesting a different tactic. To take this post and pair it with store gifting and his harbingers comments, 3 of the dozens of comments he made in a multi-hour discussion, is clearly meant to make SBS look bad.

COE is not desperate for funds, having raised tons of money in the past year. The development is going smoothly as we have seen great strides in completed work. Seeking out a publisher that is consistent with the vision of the game only makes sense. It is an ongoing process that may in the end be unnecessary. Enabling gifting is not some desperate act for funds as you portray, but something community members requested. Twitch.tv has holiday gifting too and I don’t articles portraying them as desperate.

His comments on harbingers is targeted as a tiny tiny minority of critics. An unfortunate statement because hit pieces like this can misconstrue his words, but ultimately it is directed at a handful of people who try to tear down crowd funded games for the sake of doing so. To imply he directed this at all skeptics is, frankly, lying. I am a skeptic, that is what my post was, constructive criticism to try and help positively influence one of the steps in the process.

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MeltWithYou

What is a ‘forum posted reported’?

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cursedseishi

That is fine and dandy, however this part of the linked conversation here;
“Someone who, for whatever reason, intentionally or unintentionally is sewing seeds of doubt, mistrust, and skepticism in others. ”
makes it sound otherwise.

To me, that doesn’t sound like it’s targeted towards a ‘minority’ of skeptics. IF what was meant was those doing it solely to tear down kickstarted games and the like, then there is no need to include ‘unintentionally’ in the statement. There is no misconstruing that.

I’ve not seen anyone misconstrue them searching for publishers as being ‘financially desperate’ either. You and Yumyum are the only two who brought anything up regarding such a potential.

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Tyler Eastway

I was there for the entirety of Caspian comments, what must have been 4 hours long. It in that context that tells me these things were cherry picked. As Mickdude stated, mixed in that convo Caspian made it clear they are perfectly fine on funding. There were many such details suspiciously left out of this little write up. It is also clear through that context that Caspian isn’t arguing against all critics. He has made many changes based on criticism. Changes to the order of development, adding new features, new ways of buying thing from the store, changes to mechanics, etc. I have seen what they do with real criticism. It is something different when someone make posts with the goal of making COE a failure. It is the dream of Caspian, my dream too, the dream of many thousands to have this sort of game. A person trying to stop that isn’t helping. A person trying to make COE better is helping. This article seemingly intentionally avoids a great deal of context to sell a perspective, a damaging one, and that seems the definition of a hit piece to me.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

This article was not intended to be and is nowhere represented as a complete summary of a Q&A to which we do not have access. It began as an article about a public discussion of the Q&A: your thread, which a reader linked to us, which covers the newsworthy information that the studio has been seeking a publisher unsuccessfully. We also combined two other stories into that one rather than write three: the gifting announcement, which was published by Soulbound last night, and Caspian’s commentary on how to counter skeptics in the wild, which we discovered when researching in Discord. This is just how blogs work. There’s no ulterior motive except to report on things that happen on games we cover, and we continue to welcome positive, negative, and neutral tips regarding Elyria.

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Drake Ordanska

i agree the thread is not attacking the game or developer, I ask that you watch the video of the interview I posted for Caspian’s comments on negativity.

In fact 42:30 (I included the question because it need a the concept at what he is talking about.)

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Dro Gul

Careful Bree. You might end up having the site branded as a Harbringer.

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Drake Ordanska

No he won’t, he isn’t trolling…

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Dro Gul

He?

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Drake Ordanska

An assumption that I might be wrong with, if I am I apologise. but isnt that a little Petty?

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mickdude2

What this article fails to mention is that literally minutes after his comments about looking for a publisher, Caspian also talks about how the game currently has enough funding to get them through all of 2018. Doesn’t sound desperate to me.

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Armsbend

Wait wait wait…I want to make sure I’m all ready for the upcoming defense against the harbingers. Have you already started? Goddamit I wasn’t ready. Give me a few okay?

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Melissa McDonald

Sounds a lot like the music business. Publishing is really the same game across all entertainment and media. Most bands take the first Yes they get no matter how crappy the deal is, because they’ve already been told No by a dozen music labels already.

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theblackmage75

It’s 2017. Healthy skepticism has seldom been more necessary, especially in the intersection where gaming and money meet.

I should add that if not for the recent spreading around of skepticism by gamers, devs and publishers would never have been forced to react to and (hopefully) rethink their greedy abuse of gambling and microtransactions.

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Robert Mann

Sadly, this is skepticism against a loot-box free environment, even if there are other issues… which is not what I would be wanting out of that.

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Armsbend

If 2017 was the year for healthy skepticism then the next will be the year for it’s uglier cousin, Unhealthy Skepticism. Who it is unhealthy for is the only thing to debate.

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Drake Ordanska

Not a bad article but not 100% perfect on the facts.
now I don’t know what happened on discord but if you watch the interview with Jeremy Walsh here:

you will see that he has a new view of those critics in which unless they are an obvious troll/hater he tries to see their point of view to tackle what is being said.
Also the thing about a publisher, in that interview he mentions that they have had different types of response from publishers, some have said “A good concept and idea but we need to see more” through to ” needs to have micro transactions for us”

The reason he explains for no publisher is due to the fact the studio is not willing to add things like micro transactions at this point (and probably never).

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Sray

Can someone please tell me that I’m misunderstanding this, because from what I’ve just read… twice, because I didn’t believe it the first time… is that the CEO of this company has just encouraged his most fanatical backers to go out and obnoxiously white knight against anyone who states any kind of doubt at their ability to make this game?

I already had a go-round with another one of these crowdfunded jackass studio heads earlier this week who thinks that they need to exist in a criticism free echo chamber. My very soul hurts from having read this crap. I really wish I hadn’t read this.

i-immediately-regret-this-decision.jpg
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Drake Ordanska

Caspian isn’t saying shut down critics, if you watch the video he mentions that negative criticism is good.

It’s those that constantly attack the game for no other than they want it to fail so they can say “I told you so.” they are the ones that Caspian calls harbingers, and I think we can all agree those types of trolls are bad for the entire internet not just mmorpgs or gaming sites.

((Edited by mod. Please review the commenting code.))

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Sray

Anyone who constantly attacks the game is if best ignored: running around trying to “shut down such behaviour” only gives those trolls a megaphone and an audience. Trust me, anyone trying to “shut down such behaviour” when it comes to Chronicles of Elyria will only amplify the noise and give it real weight: if the lunatics running around shouting down any Star Citizen criticism would just ignore the “lol, this is a scam” comments, there wouldn’t be half the negative publicity around that game that currently exists.

Furthermore, he literally defined a harbinger as “Someone who, for whatever reason, intentionally or unintentionally is sewing seeds of doubt, mistrust, and skepticism in others.” I bolded “unintentionally” because trolls don’t behave unintentionally. Anyone who is “unintentionally” raising skepticism in another person about this game can only be doing so by making valid, well reasoned points about what is going on: no one over the age of three has ever changed their mind about something because of “lol, total scam, gonna failzors”.

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Drake Ordanska

I agree with your comment 100%, trolls should just be ignored, it’s why I’m no longer going to mmorpg.com as their mods protect the trolls.
The mods here are alot fairer and it’s why I originally posted the video to show that Caspian only meant the trolls.
I don’t doubt he made the comment in discord (I wasn’t there so can’t confirm it) but when taken in context with the video I believe it’s just he was not careful with his wording in discord.

Your quote though is slightly misread, I only say slightly because I believe it’s easy to misread it. maybe it’s a half full glass type of thing.
I read this as a part the definition.

“When people go around the internet discouraging others from being interested in our game, or intentionally creating skeptics, they’re attacking us directly, and making it more difficult for us to complete the game.
That’s not beneficial to anyone. That – is what I refer to as a Harbinger.”

When taken along with your quote I read that what I would call a troll he calls a harbinger, and I translated it all as:

A harbinger is someone that trolls the game to intentionally or unintentionally cause people to avoid it.

The unintentionally could be because they are joining in bashing something they haven’t actually read up on and only have the facts that the original troll has put in their OP.

This happens alot on MMORPG.com where one person is constantly trolling the game and creates multiple threads with the OP only containing mayne 50% of factual information. This then causes a feeding frenzy amongst other members who dont axtually undrrstand the whole story.

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Sray

This is the fact: he told backers to go out and “shut down such behaviour” because “it wouldn’t look good for them to do it themselves”. It doesn’t matter if he’s talking about trolls or talking about any sort of criticism, he’s telling his fans to shut down criticism of his game. Furthermore, one person’s trolling is another person’s legitimate critique (even you are having to interpret what he said and wrote to arrive at a personal definition), and that’s where gigantic drama unfolds: because people will use this as license to shout out any criticism. It doesn’t matter if it’s trolls or legitimate, you can’t run around trying to shout down criticism: it doesn’t work, and you’re just handing an audience to trolls or legitimate critics; either way actually damages you more than ignoring it. By telling his fans go out and shut this down, he’s both intentionally and unintentionally creating a legion of trolls himself, and an environment that will ultimately result toxicity and harassment.

Look, I’m upset because this is an act of gross unprofessionalism and stupidity, not because “he’s evil”. As I’ve already said elsewhere in this thread, this is a comment that needs a “wow, we so don’t mean that; sorry, this was [allergic reaction to medication; bad ‘shrooms; again, literally any excuse will suffice]; and if I could go back in time and not do any of that I would. I was talking about trolling, but I realize you can’t send people out to shut down what I perceive as trolls because it will only result in people taking it too far.” But there’s been no retraction of “go forth and drown out the cries of critique, my faithful minions” (not an actual quote). If you actually agree that trolls should be ignored, then you should be joining me in wanting him to retract this statement.

Bree Royce
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Bree Royce

To be clear, the wording in Discord was supposed to be clarification for the wording in the Q&A.

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Drake Ordanska

Well as I have said elsewhere I wasn’t there in the discord, but I have watched the video back and the conclusion I came to was based on that.

where in the quote does it say that this discord was verification of what was said on that video, just I still can’t see it but I happy to be educated by someone who can discuss this fairly, someone like yourself Bree.

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Dro Gul

Please don’t bring your MMORPG.com drama here.

On the subject, if the developer says it’s not something that would look right for him to do it then that’s a good sign that nobody should do it.

We saw the result with all the attacks on other posters and even this site that had to be moderated and deleted. It’s a bad idea to do this. It makes the community look bad. No sane person could look at what happened in this blog yesterday and think that was good for CoE.

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Drake Ordanska

Reread the post no one was bringing the drama, I was stating that the people his comment was aimed at was those like mmorpg.com trolls.

That whole post was explaining what Caspian may have meant nothing more nothing less.

And again you refer to people who got moderated and I remind you that you yourself got moderated on the previous article for personal attacks on me.

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Dro Gul

We know what he meant. He clarified it perfectly in the Discord as Bree pointed out.

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Crowe

Except he’s using the term “harbinger” which doesn’t actually mean that. I reject his attempt to re-define it. A rooster’s call in the morning is a harbinger of another day ahead. I don’t think that rooster is sewing any seeds of doubt…

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Sray

It doesn’t matter if he’s using the words “undesirable person” or “harbinger”, it creating a label that can be used as a derogatory term for anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

The fact that it’s mangling the English language so badly only makes it so much worse.

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Drake Ordanska

thank you,

that made me chuckle

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Dro Gul

LOL. Another one out to brand people with the scarlet Harbringer.
(No longer makes sense due to the edit above but I’ll leave it)

No good will ever come of sending your fans out to do what you admit would look bad if you did it yourself.

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Drake Ordanska

I’m happy with the edit my comment still makes sense and if I overstepped the mark so be it.

But you have to admit your one of those people firmly routed in the CoE hater camp just as I am happy being in the hopeful for change group.

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Dro Gul

You still don’t get it. It’s not about me. It’s not about you.

You have personalized the discussion which is why you and the others keep veering into attacks. Those attacks do nothing to further the community. I am trying to help you here. When the fans come on here and attack other people and most especially attack MassivelyOP it looks horrible for the CoE community. If there is something missing from the article, bring it up! Bree and co are awesome about updating articles when new info is raised. But to come in and start to portray the site’s community (and the site itself) as “harbringers” is simply rude and exactly what Caspian complained about being done to his game.

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Drake Ordanska

You say I always personalise it, you attacked me personally in the last article and I reported it and the thread got deleted.

I’m passionate about the game and that sometimes gets the better of me.

It won’t happen again don’t worry.

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Dro Gul

Good to hear that you have learned! There is hope!

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Dro Gul

Yup that’s exactly what he said:

“That – is what I refer to as a Harbinger. Someone who, for whatever reason, intentionally or unintentionally is sewing seeds of doubt, mistrust, and skepticism in others. Doing so doesn’t benefit anyone, least of all those of us who are here working hard to make this game – both developers and the community.”

“So what I was discussing on Discord the other day was for you guys, the community, to shut down such behavior. We can’t be everywhere at once, nor does it look good for us to try and discourage such behavior. But we can encourage you guys to shut down such behavior.”

Such arrogance. It’s disgusting.

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Armsbend

Instead of typing out a detailed thought I’m just going to laugh at this thrown “gauntlet”. I’ll look forward to weighing in on this “game” in 2018.

Tizmah
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Tizmah

Yeah, spreading skeptisism is so bad. When the preacher on TV says use your credit card and pay $500 to be healed to your grandmother you totally shouldn’t reason with her about it and make her skeptical about it. /s

yumyum36
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yumyum36

They’re not struggling with funding though, from what I can tell. There’s enough money to make the game, but wouldn’t we all want them to have more money to make a better game?

You guys are acting like the harbingers the devs warn about.

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BalsBigBrother

Echo chambers are not a good thing either.

I am with cursedseishi below the dev comment just killed the small amount of interest I had. /sigh

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Drake Ordanska

Whilst the forums are an echo chamber it also has a number of sceptics to certain choices made. (if you want to see for yourself look up the threads on tribes and tribe choice).

I so think CoE has a good mix of both within it’s forums.

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cursedseishi

Well… Can’t say that I regret not backing this now.

It’s one thing to have to eventually find a publisher as a crowd-funded title. As advantageous as it is to have a product you own and control 100%, even just getting the game out there and getting access to various storefronts can be difficult. It’s not always perfect, but publishers help mitigate and cushion aspects of development, MMO or not. He’s just made the mistake of thinking his MMO would be as easy to sell to a publisher as any other game.

But to insult anyone who is skeptical of the game, and not only that but to encourage people to shut them down? “It’s fine to think we are bad, but don’t you dare say it”. Skepticism is healthy, it is natural. At no point is it ever ‘good’ to start discouraging it. No one is discouraging others from playing the game when they are being skeptics about it. Even with the oddball systems regarding their ‘subscriptions’, I was skeptical but interested. Not now though. You want to tell me not to say why I am skeptical of the game? I won’t even bother with it then.

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Drake Ordanska

reading his comment I don’t think it’s the basic sceptics he has a problem with.

In fact Orange Boy wasn’t kicked off the Coe forums even with all his scepticism. The issue is those who attack everything about the game. I won’t mention names because no doubt these people will show their faces here to shoot me down as a fan boy.

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CMDR ShrunkenQuasar

What Caspian was talking about is the trolls. Not people who are skeptical about the game, or have concerns they want to discuss, but people who have, for whatever reason, decided that they don’t like the game, won’t ever like the game, and want to do whatever they can to cast the game in a negative light.

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Dro Gul

What he said was that it wouldn’t look good for to him to go do it so he hoped his minions would go do his dirty work.

If it wouldn’t look good for him to do it, then it shouldn’t be done.

wpDiscuz