The Daily Grind: Does multi-guilding hurt MMORPGs?

Massively OP reader Josh wrote into the podcast recently — in fact, we’re answering his whole email on this afternoon’s show — about the state of guilds in MMORPGs. A fan of Asheron’s Call’s monarchy system, he posited that far from creating tight bonds in MMOs, modern guilds seemed designed to encourage “flitting around” as you can very often join multiple guilds at a time.

“But this seems to also result in far less expectation of investment in a particular guild,”  he observed.

I wanted to use that part of his question as a springboard about multi-guilding in today’s Daily Grind. I personally think that multi-guilding has helped a lot of social and roleplay guilds stay alive in an era when game developers are hell-bent on gamifying guild systems with achievements and perks that drive so many players into the arms of power-centric guilds. But I also see the investment issues Josh does, which inarguably affects the communities, just in a different way.

What do you think — does multi-guilding hurt MMORPGs?

Every morning, the Massively Overpowered writers team up with mascot Mo to ask MMORPG players pointed questions about the massively multiplayer online roleplaying genre. Grab a mug of your preferred beverage and take a stab at answering the question posed in today’s Daily Grind!
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43 Comments on "The Daily Grind: Does multi-guilding hurt MMORPGs?"

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Rottenrotny

Absolutely. It’s bad enough with all the instancing, phasing, auto dungeon finder-teleport you straight to the dungeon garbage.
Multi-guild thingies only further splinter the social environments that can naturally exist.
Once upon a time MMORPG server communities were large and very social, now they basically don’t exist and the social element in MMOs is almost entirely absent outside of trolling general/trade chat. If you’re lucky enough to have a tight guild, cool, but it’s not necessary anymore and many players I know don’t even bother.
It was better when you needed a guild. you needed other players to accomplish things in-game. Now it’s a me me me single player, casual fest.
No fucking wonder all I play is vanilla WoW anymore.
One server. One guild. Actual, real community.

mosselyn
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mosselyn

I am a fan of multi-guilding, even though I am personally dedicated to a single guild.

My guild, OTG, is a large, casual, adult (25+), mostly-PVE guild. A multi-guild system such as the one supported by GW2 enables our members to be in our guild, but also accomodate situations such as the following:

Form a guild with family members who are not old enough to join OTG.
Join a guild serious about a game aspect OTG does not pursue competitively, such as raiding, RP, PvP, or WvW.
Create or join a guild with friends who may not want to get involved in a big guild, but still want the “clubbiness” and other benefits an in-game guild provides.

One of the things that makes it work well in GW2 is that you can see and participate in guild chat for all your guilds concurrently, so you’re never cut out of the goings on.

If you run one of those guilds that eats, sleeps, and breaths its goals, I can see where multi-guilding would be a disadvantage, but it is terrific for a social guild like mine.

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Serrenity

I don’t know – it’s never really jived with me the multi-guild thing. But I keep looking for what I had in my first 2 guilds that I haven’t really found since. In Anarchy we had a tight crew and we had a ton of fun and I still keep in touch with people now and again from the guild.

In WoW, it was different because it became my social life. And I don’t mean that like I was a raid-or-die kinda guy but I would get off work, hit the treadmill for a while then get on and hangout. I was always thought of it like going to hangout at the bar with friends every night, just cheaper :-)

I think I’ve been looking for that since that guild kind of dissolved ( though I hear it exists in new forms now), but I haven’t found my new “bar crew” guild. For me, multi guilding detracts from that. So I don’t know if it’s great for me, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad for the genre as a whole.

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Little Bugbear

Most guilds aren’t good at supporting multiple styles of game play. Players who want to Raid AND RP (for example) can find themselves in a real bind about which guild to join(potential prospects having varying problems when they have to be THE ONLY GUILD). Multiple guilds can allow players to be involved with what ever play styles they enjoy (Raiding, PVP, Crafting, RP, etc.). I do think having multiple guild chats available (different colors for each guild) could help you keep involved in your guilds of choice. Also giving guilds more rewards for no combat game-play and social interaction would greatly help smaller guilds.

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Pedge Jameson

Multi-guilding seems to me to be an easy way to run with a new crew without hurting anyone feeling. It’s the same why now you can just hide posts from friends on Twitter and Facebook without removing them.

It seems to me it’s just some half attempt to combat drama and toxicity. If a guild’s not living up to what you want, just leave, don’t pussyfoot and leave them high and dry when they were expecting you for a raid or such, but you went off for the night with guild B. Just be open and honest, most GM’s of guilds really appreciate the honesty more then an just blowing them off while you do content with someone else.

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Robert Mann

Multi-guilding isn’t really terrible. The problem is that games have gone so far down the path of pure combat simulator with background environments that there’s no real reason to care. Raids/PvP grouping are about all that is left. Dungeons are made easy to allow for pugs, more and more raids are being made in a similar format and loot is being made less of a disparity between that mode and harder raiding (not that this is 100% a bad thing, just it means that source of guild cohesion is dying too.)

Not so social games are certainly in demand by some. That’s fine. The problem is, for those who want the social aspects and guilds that mean something, that no games and no systems encouraging that are being made by the major studios. I’m going to say that, even with multi-guilding, a game could make those connections valuable and important if they tried… and the first games to do so, multi-guild or not, will see a fairly stable fan base since they have little to no competition right now.

Ideally, in a system where the personal goals and motivations of each player contribute to an overall sense of community within the game. Something I think that sandboxes, should they make truly massive worlds that take a lot of time to cross, could manage easiest (especially with a player driven economy.)

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Paul Nettle

As a former guild and raid leader across several MMORPGs, I think Arktouros nailed it.

It’s not bad for MMORPGs, but it’s bad for guilds that want to do things.

It’s great for those players that are only in it for themselves, and with with the solo heavy ME design of MMORPGs these days, it’s natural fallout.

I see it as a way for selfish players to ensure they are always the #1 priority. Good guilds require a certain degree of participation, cooperation, sacrifice, and loyalty and it’s harder to pull off when players are coming and going based on which guild activities reward them and only them the most and you can’t count on them or regular participation in general.

One reason I got burned out on leading guilds, leading raids, and MMORPGs in general was selfish players and often feeling like people expected ME to schedule and provide their entertainment. If I didn’t keep raids rolling constantly, people would play alts (often in other guilds) or switch guilds. It gets old dealing with selfish takers. It gets old when people are not looking to join guilds based on the people and instead based on what can this guild do for me and can it gear up my 20th alt.

As someone who started with EQ > DAoC back when solo was next to impossible and you had to group for everything, and where the genre was more about social and strong community and less about me, me, ME and catering to casual solo garbage, I also just see this as part of the toilet spiral of the genre brought on by the shift to chasing numbers and wider appeal by turning a once great genre into a cess pool of mediocrity with solo/selfish emphasis.

You’re always going to have some selfish people in whatever is going on but I think for sure in MMORPGs, when the design is 95% about solo and mini games unrelated to the game meant to keep A.D.D. in check, then you are bound to have far more self centered players, and for MMORPGs, I think that’s just bad all around.

luxundae
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luxundae

“It’s not bad for MMORPGs, but it’s bad for guilds that want to do things.”

I think that’s a good way of putting it.

The interesting question, for me, is whether there are in-game mechanism that can encourage two-way commitment. That is, encourage players to invest more in their guild(s), and encourage guilds to invest more in their players (particularly new players).

Things like EVE University clearly demonstrate that, in-game mechanisms or not, players can set up this sort of system if they are determined enough and put enough energy into building that sort of community. But I wonder what the underlying game design can do to lessen that activation energy.

Asheron’s Call made a stab at it in a way that I don’t feel like other more modern systems do, insofar as patrons and lieges were directly incentivized to act as good mentors for their clients. They got XP out of it if those folks stuck around, and more XP if they were could be trained up into good players. As others have pointed out on this thread, AC’s system had all sorts of flaws as well. But I’m not sure that anyone else has even taken a stab at it in recent years.

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Wanda Clamshuckr

Hmm.

the solo heavy ME design of MMORPGs these days

a way for selfish players to ensure they are always the #1 priority

It gets old dealing with selfish takers

about me, me, ME and catering to casual solo garbage

a cess pool of mediocrity with solo/selfish emphasis

the design is 95% about solo and mini games unrelated to the game meant to keep A.D.D. in check, then you are bound to have far more self centered players

Well, just going to put this out there, but..I think you might want to take a look at how you perceive solo players, and content. This isn’t 1999 anymore. The genre has evolved.

Multi guilds allow for diversity. RPing, ERPing, Crafting, Trade, Raid, etc. Who “sacrifices” anymore? This isn’t a job. That was sooo 15 years ago. You can still have loyal people, and plan events where people will attend, without having to give a pound of flesh.

Requiring people to give you their online lives is selfish. People who have lives, who make a decision to donate some of their spare time to a group for an hour or two a week, should be thanked, not flogged.

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A Dad Supreme

I think joining a large guild with limited spacing for certain MMOs hurts far more than multi-guilding.
Generally joining a large guild will only offer the opportunity for a few to actually play/mingle with the more influential/popular/older members of a guild. They will usually have a tight-knit clique that will only admit a few.
The rest of the gaming guild will then have them open “alternative” groups and guilds in said MMO, which splinter off into further cliques.
I’ve seen eventually that some of these smaller groups end up not having much in common with the original guild so that they end up quitting and re-forming into a brand new guild, thereby recreating the whole ‘clique’ tree once again.

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Schmidt.Capela

I wouldn’t say it hurts or helps MMOs; rather, it changes, sometimes deeply, how people interact with guilds. Multi-guilding seems to make guilds more casual, unable to command as much dedication; for some people that makes the experience worse, for other people that makes the experience better.

I’m in the camp that finds multi-guilding improves the experience. But then, my relationship with guilds was never one of blind dedication; while I would do my best, of my own free will, to help whichever guild I was a member of, at the same time if any guild officer or above ever demanded something from me I would immediately put that player on ignore and /gquit. No one dictates how I play, and that certainly includes any guilds I join.

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Robert Mann

Indeed, the entire ‘You must do X’ is not acceptable. There are always guild goals, but any leader worthy of being followed knows better than that (at least in a play situation, in real life sometimes leaders need to get down to business mode.)

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Zen Dadaist

I’ve not had any experience in how multi-guilding works in the newer games like ESO, so I can’t really say how those systems affect things.

What I do have experience with is multi-guilding the old school way: having several characters, not all of them in the same guild. I very much enjoy doing this because I see it as a great way of having different experiences in the same game, and as a larger pool of people to play with and bring together. This is somewhat different to a permanent alliance or mega-guild. Each guild is still its own unique entity with its own feel, members, priorities and so on. It’s just that players who become more invested in the game on a wider level have more choice with what to do and who to do it with. A hardcore player can be a part of several casual guilds that way. This suits me very well, particularly in smaller games with closer-knit but not necessarily more hardcore guild groups.

Where it does run into issues is if one player ends up in a position where a lot is needed or expected of them in more than one guild. Then you run into clashing priorities and timing, an inability to honour all their responsibilities, and feelings of a lack of dedication or even abandonment. It requires careful curation and good time management – as well as a realistic understanding of what you can and cannot do. You have to prioritise, and also be flexible. I am always careful who I promise to do what for/with, and I will usually try and cross the groups over so that even when I’m not around, they’ve all got some other vouched-for folks to play with.

I am going to guess that the way multi-guilding works in ESO et al is different and not as conducive to fostering small communities. I’m not sure why it wouldn’t work to foster groups of guilds (i.e. alliances or even just shared chats to coordinate activities).

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Robert Mann

Because the only real guild activities around are PvP, Raiding, and Trade/AH. PvP groups will use outside chat (and they do form alliances, although the primary one removes much of the entire three faction dynamic.) Raiding is, well, by it’s nature small groups that run together and tend to either not talk much to others in guild about it or just have their own little set guild. Trading… they are in competition, so the only way they would work together is to jack up prices on everyone else.

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rafael12104

Does it hurt MMORPGs? Nah. It helps them, most of the time. First, depending on the game etc. many guilds dont’ allow alts so… there you go almost by default you get another guild.

Multi guilds allows you to play and socialize in different ways based on your mood. You can be a part of a social guild to take it easy peasy and switch right over to your hardcore raiding guild in time for your raid run. Lol. Let’s be honest the hardcore raid guilds are an acquired taste and are not necessarily socially constructive.

Throw in a membership in an RP guild which is yet another way to play and finally a competive PvP, and you have it covered. Lol.

I’m exaggerating to make a point. Multiguilds serve a legitimate purpose. It allows players to play in different ways with different people. One size doesn’t fit all.

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Paragon Lost

Yes. I would further add that making “new” guilds so easy to start also makes for bad game play. A guild should be an investment in my opinion by a group of players who want to do similar activities together and find more players who wish to do the same with them.

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Arktouros

Yes.

Multi-Guilding has always made running a guild more difficult. When you’re trying to run things as a guild leader/officer you need to be able to count on your people to do various activities that keep people interested in the guild. Whether that’s PvP raid, PvE raid or a some sort of hat party while emoting in an old english accent (I dunno what roleplayers do) if most of your membership is in 4 other guilds at the same time then you can’t rely on them to be there for you. You see 40 people online, but they’re all off doing something else entirely so really you only got 5. Planning events isn’t guaranteed to get people there, either, as people easily run into conflicting events on popular nights.

Then if you don’t allow multi-guilding, people end up either doing it anyways (forcing you to look like a tyrant for removing people which is never good) or aren’t interested in your guild during recruitment. The real issue is when this transcends social issues into game mechanic issues like ESO where they couldn’t tackle the problem of a server wide auction house (it’s complicated stuff) and instead just made it be guild based so now you’re forced to join multiple guilds for trading/etc.

So from a member level, I’m sure it sounds great because there’s always something going on, but from a leadership level it’s nothing but a headache in my experiences.

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Robert Mann

True in part. Sadly, the same situation will often occur regardless, as people are well trained in most MMOs to go off and do their own thing outside certain activities (like raiding in a raid guild.)

ESO chose not to make an AH (I personally thought it was a good idea not to at first) but then put in guild traders and stores (which removes all the potential benefits) and kept the standard rare item thing (which doesn’t work well without the whole setup, and would just result in chat spam… and thus invalidated my hope of seeing a less bloated economy of gold sinks I could never afford without wasting my play time on the AH systems.) So where I like the idea of no AH, ESO’s setup doesn’t make it worth a darn.

I get where you are saying things are hard with this… but honestly I think it’s more game design outside guild systems, and player expectations and training (via what benefits players most) throughout the genre.

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odin valhalla

It depends on context. As an example in ESO if you are a crafter you probably want multiple guilds for the AH exposure. Same can be said as a buyer, I am in 5 guilds there. One is for PVE raiding and trials, one for PVP the other 3 are trade guilds. Each one CAN provide what the others do but each one specifies in a particular game discipline.

In other games that likely hurts the guild but guilds have evolved (IMHO) as a social construct to enhance the shared experience that primarily is want driven not need. Meaning, in MMO’s past you -needed- a guild to do content, sell goods, experience the full game play. In MMO’s present you do not need a guild, mostly but you likely want a guild to have that shared experience.

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deekay_plus

i think guild progression systems are worse for ruining communities and social circles that guilds tend to enable historically. it started with making guild banks a money sink and went straight into grinds generally tuned for larger and zerg guilds to be trivial while putting the progression out of reach for more average sized guilds.

as for multi guilding i liked wildstar’s take on it – having a single actual guild and then having multiple semi guild like things called circles you can belong to on top of it. i met a number of cool people through circles for mundane shit like mining on people’s houses and just chatting it up when we ran into each other doing that. even recruited some of them to the then current guild inadvertently. but it was a whole different ballgame to what i’ve seen in multi guild set ups like gw2 where people tend to only ever talk to one set of people while hanging on loosely to older guilds.

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NeoWolf

Multi Guilding absolutely hurts, because people invariably focus on one over the others, and guilds filled with people who are essentially one foot out of the door are of zero use, bums on seats means nothing unless they are interacting and participating. I’ve seen it time and again and invariably some conflict of interest or obligations occurs and people end up annoyed and put out.

Pick A guild, and stick with it half arsing it is of no use to anyone and it certainly doesnt build communities.

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Brown Jenkin

Generally speaking, absolutely not. Multi-guilding in games allows for players to pursue different interests rather than just forcing everyone to be shoehorned into megaguilds if you’ve any hope of playing most of the game. In many ways my preference would be just way way smaller guild sizes in games, but expecting that never to be the case offering players the opportunity to both participate in “high end” content through megaguilds and also play with friends, RP or whatever else they’d like to do is best achieved through multi-guilding.

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Tandor

I absolutely hated the monarchy system in AC. Not only did you only hear one half of the conversation between your patron and his/her other vassals, but as people higher up the tree kept switching allegiances you kept changing monarchs.

With that exception, single guild games in my past experience always promoted a sense of community spirit and loyalty which appear to be absent in a multiple-guild game like ESO. In that game most people only join guilds in order to get a trader which is also a system I absolutely hate!

However, like BalsBigBrother below I find that guilds in general are irrelevant to me and the way I approach MMOs these days. I simply don’t do them any more, I got so sick of all the drama queens, real-life cliques, and guild meetings where one or two members ran around in circles or constantly spammed spells etc with no attempt at any sort of discipline. I realised in the end that I enjoyed MMOs much more when I was playing in my own way and interacting with other players informally rather than through some regimented structure.

Incidentally, I also dislike games that force all your characters to belong to a guild rather than being able to limit your commitment to one or some of your characters. Even in my guild days there were times when I’d prefer just to log a non-guild character in for a quiet session.

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Pandalulz

Heheh, we used to have AC Monarchy parties where we’d all get together, figure out where the unused characters were, and shuffle everybody around. Pretty sure our monarch had a whole graph drawn up on a piece of paper before we started. It was a great social event, but clunky as hell. And if you couldn’t make it, you’d end up lost and relegated to some bottom rung somewhere whenever you logged on, assuming somebody was on with an open spot. Some weird feels there.

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Tandor

It gave a whole new meaning to “MOTD”. Every time I logged in I’d find out who was “Monarch of the Day” :)!

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BalsBigBrother

Guilds in general are becoming increasingly irrelevant to me and the way I approach mmo’s these days. So offering me the chance to join more than one isn’t really going to make any difference to me personally as it is rare that I even want to join just one in the first place.

That doesn’t mean I don’t engage in the community or not talk with anyone. I just do so on my own terms without having to deal with all the baggage guilds can bring to the table. Anyone one who I want to play an mmo with or keep in touch with goes on my friends list and that is more than sufficient for me personally.

Not sure if that answers the question asked but guilds are just something I don’t want to have to deal with anymore or have anything to do with.

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Ashfyn Ninegold

I find this to be the case as well. I’m in a kin in LOTRO. I’ve been in this kin since November 2007. The kin itself was formed during the last Beta before launch. I suspect it is one of the oldest, continuously playing kins in the game. Our numbers have thinned and surged over the years, Moria being the peak, Isengard being the black hole. With regular updates and and expansion coming, we are having the whole discussion about whether to invite new people into our kin. I don’t think there’s been a new person in the kin in 3 or 4 years. We’ve got a core of from 4 to 6 players who have been in the kin as long as I have. We’re torn between new blood and comfort because none of us want to deal with people coming in with agendas and ideas that don’t fit in well with our laid-back, let’s just have fun kin. Not that we don’t play at end-game. We do. We just do it . . . casually.

People who want to socialize in MMOs typically join a guild with a voice server and chat with guildmates no matter what they are doing, and maybe they are not even in-game or not in the same game you are playing and maybe not even playing an MMO. So being in a guild to socialize becomes a major reason for guilds for many people. I don’t see multiple guilds as being an advantage for people who need to socialize, unless they switch from channel to channel looking for busiest vocal group.

I’ll join a guild if someone spams me an auto invite if the game has guild perks. Why not? Might as well get the advantages, even if I don’t intend to be chatting away on Verse or Vox or whatever the current popular chat server is. But I’m never going to be as involved or care as much about any game or group of people as much as I do about my home kin in LOTRO.

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Wanda Clamshuckr

I very much am in the same boat. I tend to be very self sufficient, with crafters and the experience to be successful that a couple of decades in the genre has taught me. I simply don’t need the chatter and involvement of a guild, let alone multiples, in my life.

That said..I am in 2 trade guilds in ESO. Unlike more social guilds, these are strictly for utility as there is a lack of a central AH in the game. I don’t want to spam chat channels with WTS messages, so having an outlet to offload goods is a necessity to make more than what a street vendor will give me as a return.

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starbuck1771

The only issue I really have with guilds is politics. If they are overly political it can cause issues.

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Modrain

I don’t think multi-guilding hurts MMORPGs as a whole, but it certainly makes them less interesting for me.

I enjoy a lot the relationships and political aspects between guilds, with all the amount of dramas, treasons, alliances, etc. Being able to join multiple guilds at a time tend to tame how guilds behave with each other since they sometimes overlap. It removes a lot of the weight of choosing a guild. People don’t always feel commited, and sometimes even leave without a word.

As a player interested in more consequences to his choices and actions, multi-guilding is something going in the opposite direction of what I’m looking for.

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deekay_plus

i got to do some diplomacy in archeage recently for the first time in years. was nice to have it happen having lacked it for such a long time. and this time around i was the one smoothing things over instead of heating them up! lol.

most mmo’s there’s not much of that stuff aside from pure drama lama shit dealing with bad behaviour that has little to do with the game. i remember way back in aion guilds throwing weight around effectively black listing people from taking part through a faction wide alliance because one guild complained ssomeone had been in their guild before joining another. when the truth was that person left the first guild because that guild condoned using bots and hacks and it didn’t sit well with them

although in the case all those guilds were so incredibly terrible leadership wise in general that it was kind of legendary just how terrible they were.

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Veldan

I could not have worded it better… almost as if you’re reading my mind and writing out my opinion :)

… you’re not, are you?

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Modrain

Well, glad I’m not alone on this, and that certainly would be a very practical ability. Now, whether I have it or not will be left to everyone’s guess :)

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starbuck1771

in general no multi-guilding doesn’t hurt an MMO. In general I mainly play one guild per faction/side ( I.E. Imperial’s and Rebels or Horde & Alliance.) however there are times when few or no guildies are online so I like to have other groups I can hangout with otherwise I get bored or I could get frustrated when I can’t get a group for raids or group quests as guilds prefer to group/party with their own people because PUG’s can be a pain.

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Pandalulz

Personally, I think if we would’ve been able to multi-guild in WoW, our guild might not have imploded because the “us or them” attitude wouldn’t have reared up when a third of our super casual guild decided they were going to leave and go raid instead, causing rifts all through the actual real life personal friendships going on there. More choices are always better.
I suppose something as simple as Wildstar’s circles or FF’s linkshells would’ve sufficed.

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starbuck1771

UM you can multi-guild in WoW just don’t give them your realid info.

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Pandalulz

That’s sort of the opposite of the goal here, heh. The problem was we had a really close knit super casual guild of real life friends. And then a group of those friends decided they wanted to raid, and it was inconvenient to raid without being in a raiding guild (before LFG or LFR existed), so they moved their mains over to this raiding guild. The problem was that they then spent all of their time on these mains and so while we could communicate via whispers, it killed the whole close-knit mentality of the guild. And that caused a large chunk of the casuals to leave because with the guild being empty most of the time, they lost interest. If there had been circles or whatnot to facilitate in keeping the group together, it might not have been such a big deal. And honestly, LFR might’ve solved the issue as well. Can’t say.

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starbuck1771

Multi-guilding wasn’t the issue there. A lack of guild members interested in raiding was the issue.

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Pandalulz

Not exactly. It was a group of people who were real life friends but had different game goals. We weren’t going to recruit non-friends into the guild, but there wasn’t a way to easily communicate with a separate group of people outside that group. If it were possible to communicate easier between the group, problem would’ve been solved.
All a guild is at this point is a group of people, so why not have the ability to say, I join this group to socialize, and join this group to get shit done. I mean, I talk to people at work all day, I guess I should be forced to only hang out with those people after I go home as well.

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starbuck1771

Which is basically what I said. Now if you recruited some non-RLF’s into your guild you wouldn’t have had the issue. So in the end it was guild politics if anything that destroyed your guild. You want to know something. One of the groups I game with I have been with since 1999 and have played multiple games with and I have RLF’s in and we have never had the issues you did. And another group I have been with since 2002 and still no issue. I am still a member of both those guilds and they know I play in other guilds.

Now to your comment about joining your guild to socialize and get shit done. Well you were socializing but getting mad because people left to join a guild that matched their interests says more about the ones that got mad. They wanted to get the raids done and the rest of you didn’t so in general they left because shit wasn’t getting done.

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Pandalulz

Except that nobody wanted to run a raid guild, and didn’t want to invite to run a raid guild. I’m not even sure they wanted to be in a raid guild, it was just impossible to raid otherwise at the time (again LFR, also reviled around here, may have fixed that). And a large chunk of the casual guild was older, married with kids, and didn’t have time to raid.
But that’s ok, you’re saying that if there’s a simple technical fix, we shouldn’t put it in though, and should instead just let people get mad at each other for being different. Got it. Sounds like a great solution to me.
None of this really matters anymore to me anyway, because all of my real life friends quit playing these games and moved on a long time ago. I don’t know why I’m still around to be honest. Something about the skinner box keeps sucking me back in.

Reader
starbuck1771

No what I am saying is your guild got pissed because people were different. The ones that wanted to raid left to join a like minded guild and your guildies got pissed and caused the issues in the friendship because they were self centered. If you rage IRL because your friends play a game with people that have the same goals then you have issues.

Reader
Kickstarter Donor
Pandalulz

But they didn’t really get mad. They logged in, saw an empty guild, lost interest, logged back out, and just never came back to the game.
They just wanted to log in and play with their friends, but the game put an artificial barrier there. We’re all still friends IRL, but we stopped playing games together for the most part because they’re mostly hostile to the way we hung out and played together. Most people this was their first and last MMO.

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