The Stream Team: Storming of the heroes

    
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In last week’s MOBA Madness stream, MassivelyOP’s Mike Foster struggled to figure out whether he was winning or losing matches in Blizzard Entertainment’s Heroes of the Storm. Tonight, he’s set to dive directly into HoTS for closer examination and/or more confusion. Tune in live at 7:00 p.m. EST as OPTV‘s infamous Stream Team brings you…

What: Heroes of the Storm
Who: Mike Foster
When: 7:00 p.m. EST on Thursday, February 26th, 2015

Enjoy the show!

The show is over now, but we’ve embedded it here just for you. Don’t forget to check out our past streams too!

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eLdritchMD
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eLdritchMD

MikedotFoster eLdritchMD  I f,e, think that it has more potential to see me play it than any of the others BECAUSE it is as casual as it is.. I don’t have the time and/or the energy for the loooong slog to competence in LoL or DotA 2 and for me both of those games (SMITE, too) are just not fun when I keep losing. I can only have fun in them if I’m decently good. Only reason I played WoT as long as I did because I happened to be pretty good at it. Losing in those games feels horrible and so if you lose more than you win you feel horrible more than you’re having fun… that’s just not worth it to me.

HotS, to me, has the potential to be fun even if you’re not the best player, BECAUSE it doesn’t snowball as hard, BECAUSE one guy screwing up royally doesn’t instantly doom your team. Its casual nature is what interests me because I don’t have the time to get good at one of the “ermahgerd we must be e-sport!!!” titles.

As for the complexity – yes. it is less complex than LoL and DotA 2… complexity isn’t necessarily always good though. Complexity can easily be redundancy as well. As an example – couriers in DotA… there is just no good reason for them to be there apart from “that’s how it’s always been and that’s how I likes it!”… LoL doesn’t have couriers and does just fine. In fact all the mobas do fine without them… it doesn’t add depth to the game it’s just useless, annoying, exploitable micro managing nonsense that serves only to frustrate. 

I get your position. I f.e. hate Hearthstone. It has all the interesting bits from other TCGs stripped out . The meta is horribly stale, the game is repetitive as hell and way too random. It’s a bad casual TCG and the bloody card art isn’t even original… they’re just reusing card art from the cancelled WoW TCG… soo lazy.. but I totally understand why people love it. It’s MTG that you can play in your lunchbreak. It’s easy to get into, compelling if you’re not deep into TCGs and visually appealing.

Same as HotS. 

P.S.: that you played incredibly poorly and in a perpetually sour mood isn’t my opinion… There really is a lot of stuff you complained about only because you didn’t know better. That’s why I was disappointed…

Llokki
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Llokki

MikedotFoster eLdritchMD So what exactly does that make myself, my friends, and everyone one else who plays HotS and prefer it over DotA and LoL?

MikedotFoster
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MikedotFoster

eLdritchMD One addendum: If this weren’t a Blizzard game, it would be DOA just like Dawngate.

MikedotFoster
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MikedotFoster

eLdritchMD MikedotFoster Blizzard is using HotS to monetize nostalgia. And it IS a muppet game; it’s Blizzard’s attempt to WoW-ize a genre it wasn’t smart enough to snag when Warcraft III modders were creating it. Subjectively, it’s really bad. Like so much worse than something I’d expect from Blizzard. It plays like a bad tablet game right now. HotS has no direction. It’s no wonder rumors out of Irvine indicate that the team has little faith in the game’s future.
And you can argue that I’m doing it wrong, sure, or that I’m not giving it a fair chance. That’s totally your call. However, there’s no arguing that HotS isn’t simpler than its competitors. It is. Complexity has been removed as a deliberate design decision. That doesn’t make the game less competitive (Connect Four is competitive), but it does make it a whole lot less interesting to play and watch for MOBA fans.
As for eSports, most of the people who watch competitive gaming are tied to games or genres. The football analogy doesn’t hold water — football doesn’t have another version of itself with different rules competing for fans’ attention (though it has been tried before with predictable results). Hearthstone also isn’t a fair comparison; Magic Online just isn’t that great and Hearthstone was launched into a relative competition void. HotS is launching into one of the most hotly contested genre niches of the last few years and has serious, towering competition (as an eSports product).
Blizzard has time to clean it up. It could still do well with a specific subset of the gaming audience. Marvel Heroes is doing well, World of Tanks has a huge following — there’s room for all kinds. I just don’t know who the audience is for HotS. The people I know who play MOBAs don’t like HotS because it’s too simple and/or sloppy, but the people I know who don’t play MOBAs won’t play HotS because it’s….a MOBA.
Of course, there’s always the chance it could pull a WoW. Maybe it will be the game that simplifies the MOBA language enough to give it broad appeal. If that’s the great hope, Blizzard better have a few dozen employees sanding the hell out of the game’s rough edges.
I’m happy to return to HotS when it’s officially ready for release. Right now I don’t feel like the quality is high enough to justify climbing the learning curve.

eLdritchMD
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eLdritchMD

MikedotFoster eLdritchMD firstly, that is exactly the same thing  Starcraft, DotA and Quake people said about LoL when it first came about… too casual to be taken seriously, bla bla bla…. In the end it doesn’t matter how high the skill ceiling is. What counts is that enough people want to watch it and most of the people that watch competitive gaming on streams are themselves not that good… just like football (all varieties) is  enjoyed by overweight old barflies everywhere.

Are people going to want to watch it over LoL? No idea, that depends on how much fun it is to watch. People sure like watching LoL over Starcraft 2 and Quake.

I know Heroes isn’t perfect and yeah it’s casual… so is Hearthstone and Hearthstone has almost caught up to MTGs viewer numbers. Also, why does Heroes have to be viable for competitive gaming? Just because it’s a moba? Homeworld is an RTS, is it instantly worth less because it can’t compete with Starcraft 2 in competitive gaming?

And again – it’s really hard to take you serious when you’re playing not just badly, but ignorant. There is a lot of depth to Heroes that you ignore because you apparently  just don’t care and wrote it off as a casual muppet game before you even started playing.

MikedotFoster
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MikedotFoster

eLdritchMD It’s pretty clear even from casual play that HotS is nowhere near as deep as either LoL or Dota. I’ve said it before; I would be stunned to see this game taken seriously as an eSport outside of a. the community of people who play it or b. Blizzard’s internal tournament machines (i.e. Blizzcon). Plus the current build is just too rough/ragged to inspire any real hope in where the game is going.

Llokki
Guest
Llokki

Love you long time Mike, but I have to agree with eLdritchMD here. I spent that entire stream wanting to reach through the computer monitor and strangle you. You spent so much time deriding the game and calling it shallow and overly simplistic, while at the same time understanding very little of it. Anyone who has spent any time getting to know the game and its mechanics could have answered every single question or issue you had during that stream, but instead you decided to opt for ignorance and write it off based on that.

Detton
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Detton

eLdritchMD Yeah, this was… painful to listen to.  I couldn’t make it through.

eLdritchMD
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eLdritchMD

Ok so I have to follow up on this… my first comment i wrote like 20 minutes in where I assumed you were just trolling, mike. Now that I’ve finished watching and realise you were probably serious…. like… really?

I mean how can you sit there play as unbelievable half arsed and grumpy as you did, not reading your abilities, not trying to understand what’s going on and then continuously make claims about how bad the game is? o0 I mean I don’t expect a thorough in depth review on the game or anything, just… if you’re not willing to even find out what’s going on in the game then maybe don’t be a huge hypocrite and say absolute nonsense like “even at the highest lvl I don’t think heroes can reach even the lowest lvl of LoL” … how can you say that, when you don’t even know that you can mount up to chase people or that there’s fountains next to the forts to heal yourself? This adequately displays why I stopped playing DotA 2 and LoL. Because the people playing it are either the scum of the earth or jumped up wannabes who think they are somehow special because they play that game… 

Not exactly what I expected from you. I lost a bunch of respect for you here today.

eLdritchMD
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eLdritchMD

this is my most favouritest thing.

self proclaimed dota snobs play Heroes of the Storm (horribly) and mock it for how casual and uncompetitive it is.  nice :P